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View Full Version : 2012 Trade Deadline- The Aftermath



Redsfan320
07-31-2012, 04:14 PM
As the other thread nears 1 K posts, thought I'd start this one.
I like the Broxton pickup, but really wish we could have gotten a lead-off CF.

320

WildcatFan
07-31-2012, 04:19 PM
I'm extremely surprised not one of the DeJesus/Span/Victorino/Pierre group was landed. Particularly with what it took to get Broxton.

That said, I'm mostly ok riding the team we have, but there just HAS to be a lineup change. Continuing to bat Stubbs and Cozart in front of Votto is not going to get this team a pennant, and I just can't believe the club doesn't see that.

I(heart)Freel
07-31-2012, 04:23 PM
Deadline passed. Will we see Stubbs cool off?

I guess there's an outside chance Pierre could pass waivers? Or the Reds could try to claim him and see if others do so to block?

mdccclxix
07-31-2012, 04:25 PM
Hard to believe with all the leadoff talk, here we are. Goodness.

hebroncougar
07-31-2012, 04:25 PM
I'm shocked with the Cubs selloff Dejesus didn't get dealt at all.

Benihana
07-31-2012, 04:33 PM
I'm shocked with the Cubs selloff Dejesus didn't get dealt at all.

Like Garza, he is signed for 2012.

Dempster is the main guy they had to get something for. Garza (and maybe DeJesus and/or Soriano) will likely go in the offseason.

hebroncougar
07-31-2012, 04:36 PM
[QUOTE=Benihana;2686166]Like Garza, he is signed for 2012.

Dempster is the main guy they had to get something for. Garza (and maybe DeJesus and/or Soriano) will likely go in the offseason.[/QUOTE

Wouldn't teams be more desperate now, and the value be greater now was well? That's what shocked me.

Vottomatic
07-31-2012, 04:36 PM
Well, I say they mix in Xavier Paul at leadoff against righties and play Ludwick against lefties.

Just give it a try for a week. If it works, keep doing it.

Against righties:
LF Paul
CF Stubbs
1B Votto
2B Phillips
RF Bruce
3B Rolen/Frazier
C Hanigan/Mez
SS Cozart

Against lefties:
CF Stubbs
2B Phillips
1B Votto
LF Ludwick
RF Bruce
3B Rolen/Frazier
C Hanigan/Mez
SS Cozart

Benihana
07-31-2012, 04:50 PM
Wouldn't teams be more desperate now, and the value be greater now was well? That's what shocked me.

Clearly that's what they were hoping (and asking) for. Fortunately, teams like the Reds were not willing to meet their demands. And because they're signed through next year, the Cubs didn't have to blink. Hence, they weren't traded.

reds44
07-31-2012, 04:51 PM
Latos is going to have to pitch like Latos and Cozart and Stubbs are going to need to start (or in Stubbs case continue) hitting if this team wants to do anything in the playoffs (if they make it there).

corkedbat
07-31-2012, 04:58 PM
I'm not going on any rants by any means (especially if Benihana's report is true), but I am disappointed that at least one of Span, Pierre, DeJesus, Victorino, Venable, Kotsay, etc. weren't landed for bench depth at the very least. I think Walt may have been going for a HR and now that he missed, someone Kotsay might be a waiver possability. There's also a good chance that an Overbay deal gets completed via a waiver deal.

RedlegJake
07-31-2012, 05:40 PM
All I know is there was a whole lot of ado about nothing

GADawg
07-31-2012, 05:46 PM
with Ludwick seemingly returning to a consistent threat and Rolen heating up I'm thinking when Votto returns they should just move Phillips back to the leadoff spot. Stubbs apparently is more comfy in the 2 hole anyway.

Kc61
07-31-2012, 05:49 PM
All I know is there was a whole lot of ado about nothing

This post really crystallizes my thinking.

Broxton is a reasonable pickup, on balance a good idea, maybe it will work out, maybe it won't. It's not a wow move. I thought the pen could use another righty, not sure he'll be great, whatever.

The big headline is that the Reds didn't fill the real need they had, to get guys on for Votto. I don't blame Walt if the price was too high; but I don't give him medals for coming up empty.

I'm one who thought the Reds had a clear need and they didn't fill it, so to me this all was much ado about nothing. A lot of sound and fury but in the end a nothing trade deadline.

My guess is they will pick up a left handed hitter from the waiver period, a veteran who can hit lefty off the bench, maybe an Overbay or someone else. Not a major player, just bench help.

I think it will be hard to score runs against playoff type RHP with this lineup, but I've been unhappy with the offense all year and the team is 3 games in first place and twenty games over .500.

Hopefully it will work out. If not, there's always the off-season for further improvement.

Tom Servo
07-31-2012, 05:50 PM
My guess is they will pick up a left handed hitter from the waiver period, a veteran who can hit lefty off the bench, maybe an Olerud or someone else. Nobody really significant.
I'd love to grab an Olerud. :D

Benihana
07-31-2012, 05:51 PM
Hopefully it will work out. If not, there's always the off-season for further improvement.

Yep. I've already set my sights on Justin Upton and Jacoby Ellsbury for this offseason. Hopefully Walt can come up with one of 'em without giving up Frazier, Hamilton or Stephenson.

Kc61
07-31-2012, 05:53 PM
I'd love to grab an Olerud. :D

Meant Overbay. Sorry. Edited my post to be accurate.

I'd like Olerud too.

OldXOhio
07-31-2012, 06:07 PM
Sorry if this was already discussed, I'm late to the game, but what is the deal with this...


John Fay ‏@johnfayman
#Reds will get a left-handed hitter with a .342/.465/.604 slash shortly after the deadline. #heardithere

Johnny Footstool
07-31-2012, 06:08 PM
Sorry if this was already discussed, I'm late to the game, but what is the deal with this...

Votto.

CesarGeronimo
07-31-2012, 06:11 PM
Sorry if this was already discussed, I'm late to the game, but what is the deal with this...

It's Votto. Not funny.

corkedbat
07-31-2012, 06:26 PM
Posted a thread about this in the Minor League forum, but thought I might bring it up here too. Since Walt didn't address the top of the order problems today and his a[[arent targets would amke you think that he's not fully thrilled with Drew Stubbs anymore. Would you go ahead and move Billy Hamilton for CF now? They've got Cozart and Did at SS, there has been some questions about his arm and D there and there's not a lot of comp in CF.

I've heard some talk that the Reds might actually give Billy a shot at the 25-man out of ST or during the season. IMO, if they're gonna move him to CF, now would be the time to make the move if they envision him playing there in the Bigs anytime in the next 12 months. If not, the Instructional League is definitely as late as they should wait, IMO.

RedsfaninMT
07-31-2012, 06:30 PM
I know I may be a bit off in this, but it seems to me the Reds benefit more than the Pirates do from trade deadline deals - and the teams that are going to head downhill hereafter.

It would seem the Brewers, Cubs, and Phils all took a major step back for the rest of the year based off of players lost. The Pirates have 9 games left with Brewers and 7 with the Cubs. The Reds have 6 games left with the Brewers, 8 with the Cubs and 7 games with the Phillies.All those games just got easier, at least on paper.

I realize this is splitting hairs, but I would rather play the Phils minus Pence and Victorino, the Cubs minus Dempster and the Brewers minus Grienke. And I would like to avoid the Dodgers and Giants. And I am very glad we don't have interleague games scheduled in the regular season against either the Rangers or Texans for the remainder of the year.

hebroncougar
07-31-2012, 06:35 PM
Posted a thread about this in the Minor League forum, but thought I might bring it up here too. Since Walt didn't address the top of the order problems today and his a[[arent targets would amke you think that he's not fully thrilled with Drew Stubbs anymore. Would you go ahead and move Billy Hamilton for CF now? They've got Cozart and Did at SS, there has been some questions about his arm and D there and there's not a lot of comp in CF.

I've heard some talk that the Reds might actually give Billy a shot at the 25-man out of ST or during the season. IMO, if they're gonna move him to CF, now would be the time to make the move if they envision him playing there in the Bigs anytime in the next 12 months. If not, the Instructional League is definitely as late as they should wait, IMO.

I think they should have moved him to CF last month.

RED VAN HOT
07-31-2012, 06:45 PM
Can't help but note that with 7 games left with the Phils and 11 with the Cubs, the trades made by others have helped the Reds as well.

Vottomatic
07-31-2012, 06:47 PM
I know I may be a bit off in this, but it seems to me the Reds benefit more than the Pirates do from trade deadline deals - and the teams that are going to head downhill hereafter.

It would seem the Brewers, Cubs, and Phils all took a major step back for the rest of the year based off of players lost. The Pirates have 9 games left with Brewers and 7 with the Cubs. The Reds have 6 games left with the Brewers, 8 with the Cubs and 7 games with the Phillies.All those games just got easier, at least on paper.

I realize this is splitting hairs, but I would rather play the Phils minus Pence and Victorino, the Cubs minus Dempster and the Brewers minus Grienke. And I would like to avoid the Dodgers and Giants. And I am very glad we don't have interleague games scheduled in the regular season against either the Rangers or Texans for the remainder of the year.

Good post. I had some similar thinking but you expressed better than I could.

I kept wondering how many games we had left against the Phils and Cubs after they dismantled themselves. Thanks for the info.

Gallen5862
07-31-2012, 06:49 PM
Do you think the reds will pick up Ankiel or Overbay?

corkedbat
07-31-2012, 06:55 PM
Do you think the reds will pick up Ankiel or Overbay?

I think Overby is certainly a possabilty. Maybe a waiver deal on Kotsay or someone similar. Ankiel? Pass.

OldXOhio
07-31-2012, 06:56 PM
Votto.

Oh. Duh. I'm an idiot.

LoganBuck
07-31-2012, 07:27 PM
I know I may be a bit off in this, but it seems to me the Reds benefit more than the Pirates do from trade deadline deals - and the teams that are going to head downhill hereafter.

It would seem the Brewers, Cubs, and Phils all took a major step back for the rest of the year based off of players lost. The Pirates have 9 games left with Brewers and 7 with the Cubs. The Reds have 6 games left with the Brewers, 8 with the Cubs and 7 games with the Phillies.All those games just got easier, at least on paper.

I realize this is splitting hairs, but I would rather play the Phils minus Pence and Victorino, the Cubs minus Dempster and the Brewers minus Grienke. And I would like to avoid the Dodgers and Giants. And I am very glad we don't have interleague games scheduled in the regular season against either the Rangers or Texans for the remainder of the year.

Last I checked the Phillies still have Hamels, Lee, and Halladay. The Reds could have six games against that troika.

Scrap Irony
07-31-2012, 07:48 PM
I still think the Reds need a leadoff hitter. Hopefully, Baker realizes this, and, when Votto returns, Phillips is moved there. I'd have preferred to move Stubbs at his trade apex, but the cost was obviously high.

Disappointing, to say the least.

Gallen5862
07-31-2012, 08:52 PM
C Yorvit Torrealba was DfAed by the Rangers. Would he be worth a look?

RedsManRick
07-31-2012, 09:22 PM
I still think the Reds need a leadoff hitter. Hopefully, Baker realizes this, and, when Votto returns, Phillips is moved there. I'd have preferred to move Stubbs at his trade apex, but the cost was obviously high.

Disappointing, to say the least.

With the way Ludwick, Rolen and Frazier have been hitting, I think he might.

Now if only he put Frazier in the 2 hold behind Phillilps you'd really have something.

wheels
07-31-2012, 10:06 PM
I think we can all agree that Walt did a fine job by not overpaying.

LoganBuck
07-31-2012, 10:22 PM
I think we can all agree that Walt did a fine job by not overpaying.

When the decision has to be made on whether or not to pay Mat Latos, Homer Bailey, and Mike Leake, I hope they make it a no brainer. However having Corcino and Cingrani (along with the younger pups) still in the pipeline, may make those decisions more informed, and in line with the given market constraints. I was really worried about losing one of those guys.

wheels
07-31-2012, 10:26 PM
When the decision has to be made on whether or not to pay Mat Latos, Homer Bailey, and Mike Leake, I hope they make it a no brainer. However having Corcino and Cingrani (along with the younger pups) still in the pipeline, may make those decisions more informed, and in line with the given market constraints. I was really worried about losing one of those guys.

They're gonna need one of those guys when Arroyo is gone, too.

corkedbat
07-31-2012, 10:27 PM
I do like that Walt resusted mistakes,but since they didn't get any top of the order help I'd like to see them go:

CF Drew Stubbs/Xavier Paul
2B Brandon Phillips
1B Joey Votto
LF Ryan Ludwick
RF Jay Bruce
3B Todd Frazier/Scott Rolen
SS Zach Cozart
CA Ryan Hanigan/Devin Mesaraco

I'd leave Stubbs there while he's on a bit of an uptick, I;d give Paul some starts unless he starts to revertto pumpkin status. I'd consider Frazier in the two-hole (with BP leading-off) if Stubbs/Paul isn't working. I'd move Cozart down to 7th or 8th in the order to take pressure off. I'd probably leaving Hanigan in the 8th hole because he's adapted so well there. I'd also DFA Cairo to bring up Navarro when Mes is suspended and keep him around after the suspension is over (but that will never happen).

LoganBuck
07-31-2012, 10:31 PM
They're gonna need one of those guys when Arroyo is gone, too.

Yep

corkedbat
07-31-2012, 10:33 PM
By ST 2014, Stephenson could be knocking on the door too.

Sabo Fan
07-31-2012, 10:35 PM
I'd be interested to hear what happened with the Span deal. From the sounds of it they had the framework pretty much worked out and it seems like the Reds got cold feet. Span would look real good at the top of this lineup for the next few years. Oh well.

As far as Broxton goes, I don't dislike the move, but it also doesn't do a whole lot for me. I worry that there's a good bit of luck involved in his numbers, but you could say that about a lot of relievers as there's a lot of "right place, right time" to being a bullpenner, and honestly, a baseball player in general. I don't sweat the guys they gave up by any means and pitching depth is never a bad thing. Overall it's a decent move but certainly not the splash a lot were hoping for and I think that's the source of a lot of the gripes about the trade, rather than Broxton's actual abilities.

corkedbat
07-31-2012, 10:38 PM
I'd be interested to hear what happened with the Span deal. From the sounds of it they had the framework pretty much worked out and it seems like the Reds got cold feet. Span would look real good at the top of this lineup for the next few years. Oh well.

As far as Broxton goes, I don't dislike the move, but it also doesn't do a whole lot for me. I worry that there's a good bit of luck involved in his numbers, but you could say that about a lot of relievers as there's a lot of "right place, right time" to being a bullpenner, and honestly, a baseball player in general. I don't sweat the guys they gave up by any means and pitching depth is never a bad thing. Overall it's a decent move but certainly not the splash a lot were hoping for and I think that's the source of a lot of the gripes about the trade, rather than Broxton's actual abilities.

Benihana seemed to indicate they wanted Stubbs and either Corcino or Cingrani and the Reds wanted to sub-out a different MiLer (Lotzkar maybe?).

PuffyPig
07-31-2012, 10:57 PM
C Yorvit Torrealba was DfAed by the Rangers. Would he be worth a look?

You want to get rid of Hannigan or Mesoraco?

MikeS21
07-31-2012, 11:08 PM
I know I may be a bit off in this, but it seems to me the Reds benefit more than the Pirates do from trade deadline deals - and the teams that are going to head downhill hereafter.

It would seem the Brewers, Cubs, and Phils all took a major step back for the rest of the year based off of players lost. The Pirates have 9 games left with Brewers and 7 with the Cubs. The Reds have 6 games left with the Brewers, 8 with the Cubs and 7 games with the Phillies.All those games just got easier, at least on paper.

I realize this is splitting hairs, but I would rather play the Phils minus Pence and Victorino, the Cubs minus Dempster and the Brewers minus Grienke. And I would like to avoid the Dodgers and Giants. And I am very glad we don't have interleague games scheduled in the regular season against either the Rangers or Texans for the remainder of the year.
I don't have a schedule right in front of me, but how many more games with the Astros do the Reds have?

kaldaniels
07-31-2012, 11:10 PM
Walt does get an A for keeping things on the downlow.

Who saw Broxton coming?

LoganBuck
07-31-2012, 11:22 PM
Walt does get an A for keeping things on the downlow.

Who saw Broxton coming?

I think the important thing is to take whatever Walt says at face value. He said several times recently that he was looking for a bullpen arm. He did it.

He said he was looking for a leadoff hitter. By all accounts he tried to get one.

He said he would try to bolster the rotation. Reportedly he did try.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-31-2012, 11:32 PM
I think the important thing is to take whatever Walt says at face value. He said several times recently that he was looking for a bullpen arm. He did it.

He said he was looking for a leadoff hitter. By all accounts he tried to get one.

He said he would try to bolster the rotation. Reportedly he did try.

Try not. Do or do not. There is no try - Yoda - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ptuzx_aHkM)