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wvreds
07-31-2012, 04:22 PM
Unless something incedible happnes and a late deal is announced, Walt did nothing to address our #1 need... Leadoff, and all he got was a Bullpen arm, not a good deadline by Mr. Jockettey

fielder's choice
07-31-2012, 04:26 PM
Guess you forgot we already have one of the fastest players in the league. :thumbup:

brm7675
07-31-2012, 04:31 PM
Unless something incedible happnes and a late deal is announced, Walt did nothing to address our #1 need... Leadoff, and all he got was a Bullpen arm, not a good deadline by Mr. Jockettey

A) We already overspent on a 2 month rental bullpen arm, why overspend more.

B) We have a leadoff hitter, his name is Brandon Phillips

Trajinous
07-31-2012, 04:34 PM
Haha, Reds have one of the best records in the league!

The above poster is right, BP is a leadoff hitter. Unfortunately, Baker won't make the correct line up card. Stubbs should be in the 2-hole/BP leads off, problem solved!

Let's be honest here, how much of an upgrade is a Span or Victorino? .20-.30 points more in OBP and less HR's?

LexRedsFan
07-31-2012, 04:36 PM
We're better than we were yesterday at this time.

arkimadee
07-31-2012, 04:37 PM
It's not like the Cards and Pirates blew anyone away

Stray
07-31-2012, 04:39 PM
We're better than we were yesterday at this time.

Yep.

wvreds
07-31-2012, 04:42 PM
We do have a leadoff hitter but the man with the lineup card wont do it

BluegrassRedleg
07-31-2012, 04:44 PM
It's not like the Cards and Pirates blew anyone away

Cards and Pirates aren't the competition when you're thinking about best record in MLB. It's about being able to compete in the playoffs and not embarrass yourself like they did in 2010.

As of now, Walt failed to improve the biggest weakness of this team moving forward. Whether or not there are reasons for that (perhaps the asking price was, indeed, too high for marginal players) remains to be seen. But it's disheartening to see so many deals go down and the Reds not getting a whole lot accomplished.

arkimadee
07-31-2012, 04:59 PM
Cards and Pirates aren't the competition when you're thinking about best record in MLB. It's about being able to compete in the playoffs and not embarrass yourself like they did in 2010.

As of now, Walt failed to improve the biggest weakness of this team moving forward. Whether or not there are reasons for that (perhaps the asking price was, indeed, too high for marginal players) remains to be seen. But it's disheartening to see so many deals go down and the Reds not getting a whole lot accomplished.

Ok. Let me re-state. It's not like the Nats blew anyone away. Dodgers are better but they didn't land Dempster. Why overpay when you have he best record without an awesome lead off hitter.

mu4103
07-31-2012, 05:29 PM
Broxton was a good add. It is tough to see what the Reds could do. Really 3B or SS seems to be the best upgrade option - but Frazier is good at 3B. If the Reds would have gotten a quality SS, I think that could have gone a long way. The OF has been playing better and Heisey adds depth at all three positions, so if you bring someone in you are going to have to get rid of one of those guys. Stubbs would seem like the only option, but Heisey is there if Stubbs struggles again.

R_Webb18
07-31-2012, 05:31 PM
A) We already overspent on a 2 month rental bullpen arm, why overspend more.

B) We have a leadoff hitter, his name is Brandon Phillips

they obv won't use him there. so no they don't

Maker_84
07-31-2012, 05:46 PM
definitely disappointed over what could have been. This team will be in the playoffs but not sure it was the offensive firepower to score runs in postseason play like the Dodgers, Giants, and even Pirates will be able to. Yes BP can be a leadoff hitter but what makes everyone believe that Dusty will actually put in there when he hasn't all season??

Mr.Redleg82
07-31-2012, 05:49 PM
Is there a chance a deal got done before the deadline, but is waiting to get approved?

GoReds19
07-31-2012, 05:54 PM
A) We already overspent on a 2 month rental bullpen arm, why overspend more.

B) We have a leadoff hitter, his name is Brandon Phillips

I thought we didnt overspend because all we gave up was "Prospects" who have never performed at the major league level.

Mr.Redleg82
07-31-2012, 05:55 PM
I thought we didnt overspend because all we gave up was "Prospects" who have never performed at the major league level.

Agreed, don't know why everyone thinks these two will be Rollie Fingers and Dennis Eckersley

brm7675
07-31-2012, 06:00 PM
Cards and Pirates aren't the competition when you're thinking about best record in MLB. It's about being able to compete in the playoffs and not embarrass yourself like they did in 2010.

As of now, Walt failed to improve the biggest weakness of this team moving forward. Whether or not there are reasons for that (perhaps the asking price was, indeed, too high for marginal players) remains to be seen. But it's disheartening to see so many deals go down and the Reds not getting a whole lot accomplished.

I don't know what the Twins were thinking, I mean come on taking on a couple low level A players for Spahn would have been a steal, how could they turn that down...

Larkin88
07-31-2012, 06:06 PM
Take heart that the type of lefty bench improvement the Reds were looking for may still turn up in the waiver trade period here in August. I still believe Overbay is a good possibility.

I certainly didn't expect Broxton, but the more I think about it, the more I don't necessarily hate it. Everyone keeps talking about the team being improved for a playoff run. Frankly, a fire balling, high leverage reliever might take you a little further than an improvement at one offensive position.

I'm with the rest of the posters on this board who wish we could at least try someone else at lead-off than the usual suspects. But in terms of long term solutions that would help the lead-off spot, we were basically talking Span or not and it looks like the Reds made a good run at him.

Victorino... Pierre... yeah might have been nice to see what those guys could do (though we still might with Pierre). But I keep thinking back to all the situations where you need a one out reliever in the playoffs. Building depth with a guy who has that experience might end up being a great, K-Rod like move (a la Milwaukee last season).

Live in Centerville and go to a ton of Dragons games every year. Losing Joseph stings a bit, but Sulbaran's highest ceiling was a bottom of the rotation starter from what I ever saw of him here. It wasn't the move I expected... certainly wasn't an obvious hole to fill... but the Reds are a better team today than they were this morning.

brm7675
07-31-2012, 06:06 PM
they obv won't use him there. so no they don't

Yes they do, if they chose not to then that is on the Reds, why give away talent for something you already have....that is just doubling up on the stupid...

brm7675
07-31-2012, 06:08 PM
definitely disappointed over what could have been. This team will be in the playoffs but not sure it was the offensive firepower to score runs in postseason play like the Dodgers, Giants, and even Pirates will be able to. Yes BP can be a leadoff hitter but what makes everyone believe that Dusty will actually put in there when he hasn't all season??

Exactly "what could have been"? The only offensive players traded were Rameriez, Victarino and Pence, of which Rameriez was never going to come to the Reds, Shane isn't that big of an upgrade and only would be a rental and where would Pence had played? What we needed was available unless you way overpaid, which is just not smart baseball.

brm7675
07-31-2012, 06:09 PM
I thought we didnt overspend because all we gave up was "Prospects" who have never performed at the major league level.

I don't believe we did, but I am reading where some believe including the kid at AAA made us overpay. I don't buy that but other do.

R_Webb18
07-31-2012, 06:14 PM
Yes they do, if they chose not to then that is on the Reds, why give away talent for something you already have....that is just doubling up on the stupid...

its more about what they don't have. a hitting cf.

brm7675
07-31-2012, 06:32 PM
its more about what they don't have. a hitting cf.

Looking at Stubbs overall numbers, what player out there could the Reds have brought in that would have been a sizeable improvment? And if so at what cost talent wise?

Trajinous
07-31-2012, 06:36 PM
Looking at Stubbs overall numbers, what player out there could the Reds have brought in that would have been a sizeable improvment? And if so at what cost talent wise?

I agree.

Span or Shin-Shoo Choo would have been sizable upgrades but all reports I saw had their prices way too high.

Larkin88
07-31-2012, 06:45 PM
Yes they do, if they chose not to then that is on the Reds, why give away talent for something you already have....that is just doubling up on the stupid...

You know brm7675, I don't often see eye to eye with you on here, but that's really an excellent point. I considered Pierre and Victorino as more situational type players for the Reds in an ideal world and that the batting orders would reflect favorable split conditions... And at an affordable price.

But knowing what we know about how lineup cards are constructed, why were people so convinced that piece of the conversation would change as well?

A Span or Choo might have been a better option as far as a true leadoff "answer" is concerned, and from everything I read today (and I didn't do much else than follow Twitter today ;) ) the Reds really tried to swing Denard. Not convinced that's not something they won't improve going forward, but gotta think Hamilton weighed into any future considerations too.

brm7675
07-31-2012, 06:58 PM
I think the one thing that kept Walt from getting Spahn or Victorino or someone else was one thing. Team Chemistry. I think from everything you are hearing from players that this group right now is clicking, especailly with how well they have played since Votto went down. Yes we have played the Stros and Rockies and such, but wins are wins and when you lose your mega star and play like they have says alot. Thus this is why no major deal was done.

'69 & Vine
07-31-2012, 07:18 PM
Not good is right. Broxton is good, not exactly a fireballer, throws 94-95, 6k/9. The plus is he has playoff experience; however, his team could have been improved greatly just by adding a legitimate lead-off hitter. Like most folks, I was hoping a Fowler, Choo, or DeJesus would have been acquired.

As for Phillips leading off, it's a sad commentary that Dusty won't even put guys in the order that they should be in.

Mr.Redleg82
07-31-2012, 07:28 PM
We will prob be okay even with the lack of moves, but it's still disappointing.

brm7675
07-31-2012, 07:47 PM
We will prob be okay even with the lack of moves, but it's still disappointing.

Look at it this way...we only do our moves in the winter...that is when the real important deals are done...

Larkin88
07-31-2012, 08:09 PM
Like most folks, I was hoping a Fowler, Choo, or DeJesus would have been acquired.


And where exactly did those players you just named end up?

Maybe, just maybe, there wasn't a deal to be had.

Trajinous
07-31-2012, 08:16 PM
And where exactly did those players you just named end up?

Maybe, just maybe, there wasn't a deal to be had.

Exactly!

All the useful players weren't dealt to anyone! Span/Fowler/Choo are all on their original teams. It's not like Walt got "outbid" for any players. The market just wasn't there.

The Rage
07-31-2012, 08:19 PM
Exactly!

All the useful players weren't dealt to anyone! Span/Fowler/Choo are all on their original teams. It's not like Walt got "outbid" for any players. The market just wasn't there.

Yes, the market did not want to cooperate. Posters are try and force it.