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BungleBengals
08-02-2012, 11:54 AM
I was wondering what everyone thinks we should do when we get Votto and Phillips back.

Obviously, Votto takes back over 1B and Phillips to 2B, but what happens then?

The way Rolen and Ludwick have been hitting lately, I think they have to stay in 3B and LF respectively.

Stubbs has been hot and the Reds are nearly unbeatable when he scores so I think you keep in in CF especially for defensive purposes. Maybe platoon him with Paul/Heisey when needed.

So IMO we have 5 of the 9 positions filled and still have to work Frazier into the lineup. Pitcher and catcher are givens, so we have 2 spots left: RF and SS

Bruce is has above average defense in RF, but he somewhat struggles at the plate. However, he has to be there because he is a fan favorite and his potential to get hot keep him there. Not to mention, he is a lefty.

My only other guess would to put Frazier in SS, but can he play there? I like Cozart's defense, but besides last night's HR he is struggling at the plate.

I know Frazier can be platooned at 3B with Rolen, but both are hitting well and I would hate to see one of them sit.

Thoughts?

brm7675
08-02-2012, 11:55 AM
When both come back you go with Votto/Phillips/Cozart and Frazier in the infield, and Ludwick, Stubbs, Bruce in the outfield. Rolen plays on average 2-3 games a week and Heisey is your rotating OF who gives each of the guys out there a day off.

HometownHero
08-02-2012, 12:00 PM
I was wondering what everyone thinks we should do when we get Votto and Phillips back.

I'm personally going to dance!

The_Mudshark
08-02-2012, 12:01 PM
I was wondering what everyone thinks we should do when we get Votto and Phillips back.

Obviously, Votto takes back over 1B and Phillips to 2B, but what happens then?

The way Rolen and Ludwick have been hitting lately, I think they have to stay in 3B and LF respectively.

Stubbs has been hot and the Reds are nearly unbeatable when he scores so I think you keep in in CF especially for defensive purposes. Maybe platoon him with Paul/Heisey when needed.

So IMO we have 5 of the 9 positions filled and still have to work Frazier into the lineup. Pitcher and catcher are givens, so we have 2 spots left: RF and SS

Bruce is has above average defense in RF, but he somewhat struggles at the plate. However, he has to be there because he is a fan favorite and his potential to get hot keep him there. Not to mention, he is a lefty.

My only other guess would to put Frazier in SS, but can he play there? I like Cozart's defense, but besides last night's HR he is struggling at the plate.

I know Frazier can be platooned at 3B with Rolen, but both are hitting well and I would hate to see one of them sit.

Thoughts?

I'd platoon 3rd with the majority of the starts going to Frazier. I love Rolen and like having him on the team but Frazier has proven to be more than capable to handle playing and producing every day. Frazier is also utility, so if he dosen't need the rest he can provide relief for other players when Rolen starts at 3rd.

MrRedLegger
08-02-2012, 12:08 PM
Rolen and Ludwick getting regular starts 3rd and LF respectively with Frazier alternating 3rd and LF doesn't sound too bad. That way Frazier can get roughly 3-4 starts a week while Rolen and Ludwick will sit only 1-2 times a week.

Stray
08-02-2012, 12:15 PM
Rolen and Ludwick getting regular starts 3rd and LF respectively with Frazier alternating 3rd and LF doesn't sound too bad. That way Frazier can get roughly 3-4 starts a week while Rolen and Ludwick will sit only 1-2 times a week.

Agreed, that will be what I expect Dusty to do as well.

P.E.R#14
08-02-2012, 05:47 PM
Rolen and Ludwick getting regular starts 3rd and LF respectively with Frazier alternating 3rd and LF doesn't sound too bad. That way Frazier can get roughly 3-4 starts a week while Rolen and Ludwick will sit only 1-2 times a week.

Agree. Also, Heisey/Stubbs alternate righty/lefty starts. Xavier Paul lefty bat off bench/5th OFer, Valdez pinch-hitter/runner/late inning guy for BP.

This is going to be fun boys!!!!


Go Reds!!

MrRedLegger
08-02-2012, 05:54 PM
Weren't we talking about how thin this team was at one point?????

The length of the season, allowing players to surge and slumping players to gain ground toward their mean, is one of the many reasons why I absolutely love baseball.

This team is pretty much stacked everywhere. Yes, we're being tested with our two biggest guys injured, but we're still hanging in there. A 100% healthy Reds team has to scare the rest of the league. I wonder what other teams fans (Nats, Rangers, Angels, etc) are saying.

P.E.R#14
08-02-2012, 06:04 PM
Weren't we talking about how thin this team was at one point?????

The length of the season, allowing players to surge and slumping players to gain ground toward their mean, is one of the many reasons why I absolutely love baseball.

This team is pretty much stacked everywhere. Yes, we're being tested with our two biggest guys injured, but we're still hanging in there. A 100% healthy Reds team has to scare the rest of the league. I wonder what other teams fans (Nats, Rangers, Angels, etc) are saying.

I understand your point about being thin, but I don't think we were thin, just not running on all cylinders. If and when that happens (becaues it really hasn't happened yet), THAT is what the whole league should be scared of!!

Go Reds!!

Kradokk
08-02-2012, 06:11 PM
Give Ludwick occasional spot starts in RF vs LHP. His numbers are better than Bruce's vs LHP. Then you can play both Rolen and Frazier on those days.

chuck6660
08-03-2012, 01:53 AM
when Votto and Phillips come back I would go with the following line-up:

2b Phillips
CF Stubbs
1B Votto
LF Ludwick
RF Bruce
3B Frazier w/ Rolen getting 2-3 starts a week
SS Cozart
C Hanigan/Mesoroco

I would get Heisey 2-3 starts a week in the OF

thorn
08-03-2012, 02:09 AM
Agree. Also, Heisey/Stubbs alternate righty/lefty starts. Xavier Paul lefty bat off bench/5th OFer, Valdez pinch-hitter/runner/late inning guy for BP.

This is going to be fun boys!!!!


Go Reds!!

IMO, I doubt Paul will be here when Votto gets off the DL, he will be sent down with Navarro still backing up Hanigan. Once Mes is ready, Navarro will be sent down till Sep when he gets called up, with Paul.

swaisuc
08-03-2012, 10:14 AM
IMO, I doubt Paul will be here when Votto gets off the DL, he will be sent down with Navarro still backing up Hanigan. Once Mes is ready, Navarro will be sent down till Sep when he gets called up, with Paul.

Agree. I think a total timeshare at 3rd makes sense for now until they separate themselves. LF I think is Ludwick's job with frequent days off to stay fresh and get Heisey ABs. Heisey backs up in CF also.

You're really only looking at 1 of Frazier/Rolen along with (usually) Heisey on the bench for the next month. That's fine with me because pinch hitters matter.

smixsell
08-03-2012, 02:22 PM
Frazier gets the bulk of the PT (60-70%) at third for me. Even during Rolen's good spell, he is not hitting with the same power (.509 SA in July) that Frazier has hit with all year (.538 SA all year compared to Scott's .375 SA all year). Keep Scotty fresh and keep Frazier's key RBI bat in the lineup most of the time IMO.

This also lets Frazier continue to gain experience and improve. This guy is the real deal IMO. He's going to be our 3B for many years to come IMO.

I would also use Frazier to spell Votto at 1B to keep him fresh and healthy.

Red Buckeye
08-03-2012, 02:37 PM
When both come back you go with Votto/Phillips/Cozart and Frazier in the infield, and Ludwick, Stubbs, Bruce in the outfield. Rolen plays on average 2-3 games a week and Heisey is your rotating OF who gives each of the guys out there a day off.


Spot on this time brm.

I still can't believe some would rather see Rolen start over Frazier. Has Rolen improved? Yes!

Is he as dangerous at the plate at Frazier? Nope (waiting for a stat guy to compare the two of them now since Rolen's return)!

jback76
08-03-2012, 02:51 PM
Spot on this time brm.

I still can't believe some would rather see Rolen start over Frazier. Has Rolen improved? Yes!

Is he as dangerous at the plate at Frazier? Nope (waiting for a stat guy to compare the two of them now since Rolen's return)!

I think just about everybody is in favor of starting Frazier at 3rd except Dusty won't see it that way. Unless Rolen is hurting he'll play 3 out of every 4 games.

Kingspoint
08-07-2012, 04:28 PM
Well, it looks like Heisey is already the man out before Votto even comes back. He's hardly had any at-bats lately.

So, if Heisey is already out, who else is going to lose at-bats when Votto comes back?

Obviously, Frazier will lose some, while Ludwick also loses some. I would think Rolen would also, just to get Ludwick and Frazier back in the lineup.

Heisey is going to have to get his at-bats now at the expense of Stubbs and Bruce, as Frazier will likely get anything that Ludwick gives up.

With Rolen hitting so well lately, the bench has become a real asset.

Cairo is still absolutely terrible.

New York Red
08-07-2012, 04:35 PM
I'd split starts between Rolen and Heisey 50/50 unless one of them is swinging a hot bat. Ludwick, Stubbs and Bruce is the starting outfield every day. Heisey can give someone an occasional rest. I'll just be glad when Joey gets back, because we desperately need him. Pitching carried us for awhile, but lately the starters are really struggling.

New York Red
08-07-2012, 04:38 PM
Well, it looks like Heisey is already the man out before Votto even comes back. He's hardly had any at-bats lately.

So, if Heisey is already out, who else is going to lose at-bats when Votto comes back?

Obviously, Frazier will lose some, while Ludwick also loses some. I would think Rolen would also, just to get Ludwick and Frazier back in the lineup.

Heisey is going to have to get his at-bats now at the expense of Stubbs and Bruce, as Frazier will likely get anything that Ludwick gives up.

With Rolen hitting so well lately, the bench has become a real asset.

Cairo is still absolutely terrible.
I don't think Joey coming back effects Heisey. As you said, him being outplayed by Ludwick is why Heisey isn't playing more. I don't see that changing when Joey returns.

Kingspoint
08-07-2012, 05:13 PM
I don't think Joey coming back effects Heisey. As you said, him being outplayed by Ludwick is why Heisey isn't playing more. I don't see that changing when Joey returns.
My post was probably too long. Heisey has already been demoted. So knowing that, now who is going to lose their at-bats when Votto returns.

Ironman92
08-07-2012, 05:39 PM
My post was probably too long. Heisey has already been demoted. So knowing that, now who is going to lose their at-bats when Votto returns.

Frazier will lose 35-40 AB a month. Ludwick will lose 15-20 a month. Rolen will lose about 10 a month.

mikemo14
08-08-2012, 12:49 AM
Heisey very well may get sent down to Louisville when Votto returns. Has options left and I don't believe Paul does. Might do him good as he has apparently fallen to last in line in the pecking order. (Zero at bats in the past three games after the inside the parker in Pittsburgh) Let him go down and play everyday for a few weeks and then if no one gets hurt between now and the end of August, release Cairo and get Heisey on the playoff roster.