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brm7675
08-03-2012, 01:59 PM
Below is taken from a Sporting News intereview:


SN: What should the Reds do with Aroldis Chapman next year? Start him or keep him as their closer?

Smoltz: I can't believe I'm hearing this. I had no idea they're even thinking about making him a starter. You would think people would have learned their lesson from the Joba Chamberlain situation. I don't think it's fair to bounce a guy around early in his career. The transformation between starting and closing is night and day. (Chapman) is lights out as a closer. I don't know if he can be lights out for eight innings.

webbbj
08-03-2012, 02:02 PM
just b/c one guy failed doesnt mean everyone else will. its a case by case basis imo.

Girevik
08-03-2012, 02:23 PM
The difference as I see it is that Chapman isn't a closer they want to make a starter. He's a starter that's been serving as a closer. I think he showed in sprint training that he has the ability to start.

P.E.R#14
08-03-2012, 02:25 PM
I refuse to take anything John Smoltz says seriously.


Go Reds!!

Red Buckeye
08-03-2012, 02:33 PM
Below is taken from a Sporting News intereview:


SN: What should the Reds do with Aroldis Chapman next year? Start him or keep him as their closer?

Smoltz: I can't believe I'm hearing this. I had no idea they're even thinking about making him a starter. You would think people would have learned their lesson from the Joba Chamberlain situation. I don't think it's fair to bounce a guy around early in his career. The transformation between starting and closing is night and day. (Chapman) is lights out as a closer. I don't know if he can be lights out for eight innings.

I completely agree with Smoltz. When a guy is the best at his job, why change it? Chapman is the best closer in MLB with little doubt, he is dominant, and most everyone knows when the Reds have a 9th inning lead the game is over. I wouldn't change anything. Plus, doesn't anyone worry that with his limited pitch variety that hitters might be able to catch up to him in later innings?

I love Chapman as a closer, and I think the Madsen injury might have been a blessing in disguise.

malcontent
08-03-2012, 02:44 PM
I completely agree with Smoltz. When a guy is the best at his job, why change it? Chapman is the best closer in MLB with little doubt, he is dominant, and most everyone knows when the Reds have a 9th inning lead the game is over. I wouldn't change anything. Plus, doesn't anyone worry that with his limited pitch variety that hitters might be able to catch up to him in later innings?

I love Chapman as a closer, and I think the Madsen injury might have been a blessing in disguise.
I completely agree.

Your point that everyone knows the game is over if the Reds have a 9th inning lead is a good one.

Knowing that has to put pressure on the other team, and takes some off the Reds.

fielder's choice
08-03-2012, 02:50 PM
It's quite a waste to only use a weapon like that in one specific inning, and only when we have the lead. If he's going to be in the bullpen, especially now that we have Broxton, I wish we would use him whenever we absolutely need an out or 3.

rgslone
08-03-2012, 02:50 PM
You know, when John Smoltz gives an opinion on this issue - especially given the fact that he's been a top notch Starter and Closer - you have to at least consider his point. I always wanted Chapman to be a Starter because I envisioned the possiblibty of him dominating for 7+ innings. But the truth is, in the back of my mind, I was always worried about whether it would really play out that way. His stuff in small doses seems to really overwhelm hitters. As a starter, however, you generally need some deception to go with your stuff; and I've wondered whether he had enough deception (and control) to keep good hitters from maybe loading up on him over time.

webbbj
08-03-2012, 02:57 PM
It's quite a waste to only use a weapon like that in one specific inning, and only when we have the lead. If he's going to be in the bullpen, especially now that we have Broxton, I wish we would use him whenever we absolutely need an out or 3.

well thats how our best reliever should be used. Boggles my mind managers cant see that using their best reliever in the highest leverage situations is the correct move. Instead they will continue using their 3rd best reliver to get out of a jam in 1 run or tie ball game if its before the 9th.

jback76
08-03-2012, 02:57 PM
Agree keep Chapman closing. Always!

P.E.R#14
08-03-2012, 03:00 PM
You know, when John Smoltz gives an opinion on this issue - especially given the fact that he's been a top notch Starter and Closer - you have to at least consider his point. I always wanted Chapman to be a Starter because I envisioned the possiblibty of him dominating for 7+ innings. But the truth is, in the back of my mind, I was always worried about whether it would really play out that way. His stuff in small doses seems to really overwhelm hitters. As a starter, however, you generally need some deception to go with your stuff; and I've wondered whether he had enough deception (and control) to keep good hitters from maybe loading up on him over time.

We'll probably never know whether Chapman will succeed as a starter or not. I doubt the Reds make the change after his dominance this year.

For Smoltz to say he didn't even know Chapman was talked about as a starter gives me more reason to dislike the guy. It shows he doesn't really pay attention to baseball.


Go Reds!!

Red Raindog
08-03-2012, 03:09 PM
We'll probably never know whether Chapman will succeed as a starter or not. I doubt the Reds make the change after his dominance this year.

For Smoltz to say he didn't even know Chapman was talked about as a starter gives me more reason to dislike the guy. It shows he doesn't really pay attention to baseball.


Go Reds!!

+1

He must be following golf

Kcbuckeye22
08-03-2012, 03:26 PM
It took us this long to find out how good he would be at closer. To find out the same for a starter and his contract could be over. Just something to think about.

miamiredskin
08-03-2012, 03:35 PM
We'll probably never know whether Chapman will succeed as a starter or not. I doubt the Reds make the change after his dominance this year.

For Smoltz to say he didn't even know Chapman was talked about as a starter gives me more reason to dislike the guy. It shows he doesn't really pay attention to baseball.



Perhaps it shows how little attention many people who follow baseball have paid to the Reds. That is starting to change, whether or not Chappy changes to starting.

malcontent
08-03-2012, 04:13 PM
You know, when John Smoltz gives an opinion on this issue - especially given the fact that he's been a top notch Starter and Closer - you have to at least consider his point. I always wanted Chapman to be a Starter because I envisioned the possiblibty of him dominating for 7+ innings. But the truth is, in the back of my mind, I was always worried about whether it would really play out that way. His stuff in small doses seems to really overwhelm hitters. As a starter, however, you generally need some deception to go with your stuff; and I've wondered whether he had enough deception (and control) to keep good hitters from maybe loading up on him over time.
Agreed. And then when you figure in how a single start can go...a fluke hit here, no run support there, a lead turned over to the pen and blown, or a 100-pitch count in the 6th because his control isn't perfect and nobody is making contact anyway...maybe closer was always the way to go with him.

This way he affects the outcomes of so many games...he's the main reason the team is 64-41, IMO.

Biff Pocoroba
08-03-2012, 04:18 PM
yes, let's automatically discount what a former all-star pitcher, who successfully started and closed, has to say on the matter.

Krawhitham
08-03-2012, 04:33 PM
just b/c one guy failed doesnt mean everyone else will. its a case by case basis imo.

Danny Graves says hello

RedsFanInBama
08-03-2012, 04:53 PM
Might as well just leave him at closer at this point. It's going to take time to get him conditioned to be an effective starter, not to mention trying to master at least two more pitches that he has basically abandoned as a closer.

I always suspected that once he moved to the bullpen that first year and didn't go back to starting at the very beginning of the next season that he would never become a starter for the Reds.

malcontent
08-03-2012, 05:02 PM
Another thing. Hitters are dialed up to face Chapman in the 9th, swinging at some pitches that would be balls.

Over the course of a game I think they would become a lot more patient, and a lot more willing to let him run up his pitch count, especially if he's a little wild.

Like most, I initially wanted him to start, partly because the Reds don't have a LH starter. But he's the best closer in the game, now. And that really is invaluable.

adampad
08-03-2012, 05:19 PM
yes, let's automatically discount what a former all-star pitcher, who successfully started and closed, has to say on the matter.

This is also a guy that burned himself while trying to iron his shirt that was still on his body.


With that said, I love Chapman and it's awesome to have a dominant closer. I'm not sure if I'd like to see him in the rotation or not. He could be like a Randy Johnson, but I've always believed relievers are undervalued. I'd like to see him get a few two inning saves or at least be used in critical 8th inning situations.

Knightro28
08-03-2012, 05:33 PM
The Neftali Feliz situation sure isn't encouraging.

BluegrassRedleg
08-03-2012, 08:56 PM
A guy with an arm as talented as Chapman's shouldn't be in a role where he may or may not pitch all week. On a good week, he may pitch 3 innings. To me, that's a waste. Don't get me wrong. I love watching him mow down hitters and nailing down wins right now. But I think his best value to the team long-term is as a starter. Ideally, I'd love to see Broxton show them that he can close, re-sign him, and get Chapman into the rotation next spring.

Plus, Smoltz obviously didn't do his homework on Chapman's Cuban history as a starter.

rgslone
08-03-2012, 11:02 PM
A guy with an arm as talented as Chapman's shouldn't be in a role where he may or may not pitch all week. On a good week, he may pitch 3 innings. To me, that's a waste. Don't get me wrong. I love watching him mow down hitters and nailing down wins right now. But I think his best value to the team long-term is as a starter. Ideally, I'd love to see Broxton show them that he can close, re-sign him, and get Chapman into the rotation next spring.

Plus, Smoltz obviously didn't do his homework on Chapman's Cuban history as a starter.

I hope you're right, and the Reds are able to move another good option into the closer role while allowing Chapman to be successfully moved to the starting rotation. Still, I'm just not sure whether Chapman is better as a Starter or Closer - and the fact that a Hall of Fame Starter/Closer thinks it's a no brainer that he should remain a Closer makes me pause when thinking he should be moved to a starting role.

SYCMiniBus
08-03-2012, 11:49 PM
A guy with an arm as talented as Chapman's shouldn't be in a role where he may or may not pitch all week. On a good week, he may pitch 3 innings. To me, that's a waste. Don't get me wrong. I love watching him mow down hitters and nailing down wins right now. But I think his best value to the team long-term is as a starter. Ideally, I'd love to see Broxton show them that he can close, re-sign him, and get Chapman into the rotation next spring.

Plus, Smoltz obviously didn't do his homework on Chapman's Cuban history as a starter.

It's not just about innings pitched, it is about games impacted. If he can shut the door three times in those three innings and shorten the game, one can argue very successfully that he is most valuable in that role.

I mean Mariano Rivera came up as a starter as well. Now granted his stuff is different and all of that, but I think if the Yanks felt he would have been a great impact performer as a starter they would have at least tried him in that role. Instead they felt him as a closer is where he would be most valuable to the team.

Definitely in the playoffs (despite what Daugherty thinks) you absolutely have to have a lock down closer to win. I just think Chapman being a 1.00 ERA guy who can shut down a game 3 times per week is more valuable than an above average starter, and it is very tough to say given his minor league track record that he would be a top of the rotation guy. Maybe he would, but that is a pretty big jump to make.

BurgervilleBuck
08-03-2012, 11:54 PM
At this point, why mess with a good thing? We have a very scary bullpen, made even more intimidating with the addition of Broxton this week. Let's just ride it out and worry about next season after this season.

jhiller21
08-04-2012, 03:46 AM
Chapman is one of the most intimidating pitchers I've ever seen as a closer. He's not going to gain that status throwing 94-96 for 5-7 innings, especially without a legit third pitch.

Madson going down (despite the money we lost) was okay. Chapman was born to be a closer. The hitters are swinging early and still coming up late in the ninth. Do you think Chapman could do that for 6-7 innings every five days?

Without a dominant breaking ball or changeup, they'll catch up to him. Especially after seeing him for several innings.

BungleBengals
08-04-2012, 04:58 AM
Chapman has 24 saves this season. That is sealing 24 wins for this team. Not to mention he is a fan favorite and gets the crowd going when he gets on the mound. That has to be some kind of motivation for the other players on the team.

Look what happened during the Houston series, they had us against the wall going into the 9th and bring in Cordero to close who blows 2 games in a row. A closer is a very valuable asset to a team.

IMO I would rather have Chapman be able to seal 3 games in a row for us rather than maybe start every 5 days and maybe take one game into the 7th or 8th inning and hope a new closer pulls it out for him.

SweetLou1990
08-04-2012, 08:45 AM
Chapman is one of the most intimidating pitchers I've ever seen as a closer. He's not going to gain that status throwing 94-96 for 5-7 innings, especially without a legit third pitch.

Madson going down (despite the money we lost) was okay. Chapman was born to be a closer. The hitters are swinging early and still coming up late in the ninth. Do you think Chapman could do that for 6-7 innings every five days?

Without a dominant breaking ball or changeup, they'll catch up to him. Especially after seeing him for several innings.

I agree - Chapman was born to be a closer if I've ever seen a closer.

Don't want to hear the money argument ( "he makes to much money to be a closer"). I don't care, its not my money.

Australian Red
08-04-2012, 10:09 AM
Keep him closing at the moment, he his so potent and such an asset no point in changing it

RedsFanInBama
08-04-2012, 11:01 AM
Money is not an argument here, especially considering we just gave a guy who couldn't carry Chapman's jock 12 million a year. Money might be a legitimate argument when Chapman is making more.

btmreds
08-04-2012, 03:12 PM
Chapman has 24 saves this season. That is sealing 24 wins for this team. Not to mention he is a fan favorite and gets the crowd going when he gets on the mound. That has to be some kind of motivation for the other players on the team.

Look what happened during the Houston series, they had us against the wall going into the 9th and bring in Cordero to close who blows 2 games in a row. A closer is a very valuable asset to a team.

IMO I would rather have Chapman be able to seal 3 games in a row for us rather than maybe start every 5 days and maybe take one game into the 7th or 8th inning and hope a new closer pulls it out for him.

This. When Chapman is in with the lead the game is all but over. That is an invaluable asset to have.

Doug4500
08-04-2012, 05:55 PM
Too many years of Graves and Weathers and Coco and Pepto Bismol. Leave him at closer, its the best I have felt in years with a lead in the ninth inning.