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reds44
08-04-2012, 11:18 PM
As if the antics of the last two nights weren't enough

John Grupp ‏@JohnGrupp_trib
A.J. Burnett pointing out the dugout at various Reds, as if to stay tomorrow I'm plunking this guy, and that guy and that guy. #pirates

kaldaniels
08-04-2012, 11:19 PM
As if the antics of the last two nights weren't enough

John Grupp ‏@JohnGrupp_trib
A.J. Burnett pointing out the dugout at various Reds, as if to stay tomorrow I'm plunking this guy, and that guy and that guy. #pirates

Guess we gotta hit someone early again...:D

CTA513
08-04-2012, 11:20 PM
I hope he does it early and gets tossed so the Pirates bullpen has to pitch most of the game.

Vottomatic
08-04-2012, 11:22 PM
I love how the Pirates players are focused on plunking one of our players. I thought the object of the game was to win? I guess they've lost sight of that.

hebroncougar
08-04-2012, 11:23 PM
If that's the case, we've already won tomorrow.

Tom Servo
08-04-2012, 11:23 PM
Sure would be awesome if Burnett got an early exit.

Brutus
08-04-2012, 11:24 PM
I wish the sissy Jared Hughes would step to the plate ;)

Vottomatic
08-04-2012, 11:25 PM
Yeah, his forearm to Navarro was punkish.

Phhhl
08-04-2012, 11:31 PM
I hope he does throw at our guys. After tonight I am pretty sure they will issue a warning during ground rules and the first guy AJ hits will be his ticket to the showers.

Brutus
08-04-2012, 11:33 PM
The other thing I wanted to bring up... how silly is it to defend Hurdle? Think about this:

Umpire: "Bench warning to both teams. If we think you're throwing at a batter, you're ejected."

Hurdle: "No, we should have the right to throw at someone."

I mean really, how can anyone justify Hurdle's point while staying within the spirit of the reason the warning was issued to begin with?

westofyou
08-04-2012, 11:38 PM
In their heads now

Vottomatic
08-04-2012, 11:38 PM
Umpire: "Bench warning to both teams. If we think you're throwing at a batter, you're ejected."

Hurdle: "Dang it! We stayed up all night plotting to retaliate and now you've taken the fun out of today's game, ump!!!!!"

The Operator
08-04-2012, 11:42 PM
They sure are cocky for a team who hasn't won squat in 20 years.

Act like you've been there before, kids. The Reds are definitely in their head now. For a while I was sorta happy for The Pirates and their success but it appears they're no better than The Cardinals about being whiners, criers, and jerks. Apparently their fans too.

Reds Nd2
08-04-2012, 11:44 PM
I wish the sissy Jared Hughes would step to the plate ;)

He's a thug.

traderumor
08-04-2012, 11:49 PM
I wish the sissy Jared Hughes would step to the plate ;)I repeat, Hughes is a mouth breathing mound stalker. He tries to look intimidating but only ends up looking like Lurch.

Raisor
08-04-2012, 11:59 PM
I repeat, Hughes is a mouth breathing mound stalker. He tries to look intimidating but only ends up looking like Lurch.


As a mouth breather, I take exception to your taunts and abuse.

Maybe I shouldn't have said that.

CrackerJack
08-05-2012, 12:02 AM
Hughes is a punk - isn't that what you call white boys? :)

Sorry. i'm moving on now...

_Sir_Charles_
08-05-2012, 12:30 AM
The other thing I wanted to bring up... how silly is it to defend Hurdle? Think about this:

Umpire: "Bench warning to both teams. If we think you're throwing at a batter, you're ejected."

Hurdle: "No, we should have the right to throw at someone."

I mean really, how can anyone justify Hurdle's point while staying within the spirit of the reason the warning was issued to begin with?

I think Hurdle's position would be more along the lines of we haven't hit anybody, we've done NOTHING to warrant a "warning" at all...and now if one of my pitchers even accidentally hits a batter, he's gone. You can't just assume we're going to retaliate. And I don't think anybody thought Leake's ball was intentional...except the batter for a few seconds.

I'll readily admit that I'm not unhappy about the call/decision...but I'll just as readily admit that it was very unfair towards the Pirates in that situation. They had done nothing to warrant a warning. Nada.

GullyFoyle
08-05-2012, 12:34 AM
Not being able to hear what Harrison (and Leake) said, I don't think anyone can be sure they did nothing.

I have no doubt if Harrison took his base, head down, there would have been no problem.

Brutus
08-05-2012, 12:34 AM
I think Hurdle's position would be more along the lines of we haven't hit anybody, we've done NOTHING to warrant a "warning" at all...and now if one of my pitchers even accidentally hits a batter, he's gone. You can't just assume we're going to retaliate. And I don't think anybody thought Leake's ball was intentional...except the batter for a few seconds.

I'll readily admit that I'm not unhappy about the call/decision...but I'll just as readily admit that it was very unfair towards the Pirates in that situation. They had done nothing to warrant a warning. Nada.

If Harrison hadn't acted like he did going down to first, the warnings wouldn't have been issued. With Harrison's reaction, he pretty much forced the umpire to issue a warning as it was clear tempers were flaring.

Tom Servo
08-05-2012, 12:35 AM
I have no doubt if Harrison took his base, head down, there would have been no problem.
This. I agree with points you are making Charles, it was a bit of a raw deal for Pittsburgh, but they brought it on themselves. Or rather, Harrison brought it on them.

HotCorner
08-05-2012, 12:37 AM
I repeat, Hughes is a mouth breathing mound stalker. He tries to look intimidating but only ends up looking like Lurch.

From Thursday ...

"We know when we go in there this week, it's time to win," Pirates reliever Jared Hughes said. "There's no other option. We're going in there, and we're winning."

Well I guess there was another option. Oh the fact he got pinned with the loss - even sweeter.

I(heart)Freel
08-05-2012, 12:39 AM
I think Hurdle's position would be more along the lines of we haven't hit anybody, we've done NOTHING to warrant a "warning" at all...and now if one of my pitchers even accidentally hits a batter, he's gone. You can't just assume we're going to retaliate. And I don't think anybody thought Leake's ball was intentional...except the batter for a few seconds.

I'll readily admit that I'm not unhappy about the call/decision...but I'll just as readily admit that it was very unfair towards the Pirates in that situation. They had done nothing to warrant a warning. Nada.

I'll politely disagree. The ump made the warning almost entirely because of the way the Pirate batter reacted to getting pecked by Leake's pitch. The back and forth btw him and Leake on the way to first caused the warning. So one could argue, as I do, that the Pirates did do something to warrant the warning.

_Sir_Charles_
08-05-2012, 12:40 AM
This. I agree with points you are making Charles, it was a bit of a raw deal for Pittsburgh, but they brought it on themselves. Or rather, Harrison brought it on them.

Maybe. He got plunked, he was pissed, he flipped his bat and muttered something. He made no move towards the mound, he said what he wanted to say and ran to first. If Leake hadn't said anything back or made a move towards him....IMO it seemed like everything was incited by the Reds there. They did the plunking, and Leake took steps towards the runner and was talking back keeping the thing going. So I guess you "could" make a case and say Harrison did his part in escalating it, but it was a very minor part IMO.

Please, keep in mind that I didn't get to watch the game tonight...so my point of view is completely based on the replays.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=23618687&c_id=mlb

Brutus
08-05-2012, 12:41 AM
From Thursday ...

"We know when we go in there this week, it's time to win," Pirates reliever Jared Hughes said. "There's no other option. We're going in there, and we're winning."

Well I guess there was another option. Oh the fact he got pinned with the loss - even sweeter.

That was simply a misprint. He actually said "we're going in there, and we're whining."

HotCorner
08-05-2012, 12:41 AM
That was simply a misprint. He actually said "we're going in there, and we're whining."

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

_Sir_Charles_
08-05-2012, 12:42 AM
Now the Hughes play....that was just a cheap shot and simply dirty baseball.

Any chance he gets reprimanded for that?

Benihana
08-05-2012, 12:43 AM
I hate everything Pittsburgh.

Can't wait to see what they say if we sweep.

GullyFoyle
08-05-2012, 12:44 AM
Harrison gave Leake an extended stink eye, and was very confrontational before Leake said anything ... It was a major point of commentary by both Reds announcers.

hebroncougar
08-05-2012, 12:44 AM
Well, put yourself in Harrison's shoes as well. Your team leader throws down the gauntlet. You get plunked early. I think his attitude I rationale and expected by his teammates.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

GullyFoyle
08-05-2012, 12:46 AM
Well, put yourself in Harrison's shoes as well. Your team leader throws down the gauntlet. You get plunked early. I think his attitude I rationale and expected by his teammates.



I understand, but it wasn't like the Pirates did nothing to warrant what happen. (And obviously Leake didn't do it on purpose, regardless of Chapman)

_Sir_Charles_
08-05-2012, 12:48 AM
I just realized that you guys may have seen more than I did. I didn't get to watch the game tonight. So I'm going by what I saw in the replays. The one I saw only shows him flip the bat and say something to Leake and then he jogs to first. Leake then heads towards him verbally jarring back. I saw one more thing said to Leake as he nears the bag and that was it. From the reactions here, I'm guessing there was more after the bat flip and before the jog to first?

smith288
08-05-2012, 12:50 AM
Maybe. He got plunked, he was pissed, he flipped his bat and muttered something. He made no move towards the mound, he said what he wanted to say and ran to first. If Leake hadn't said anything back or made a move towards him....IMO it seemed like everything was incited by the Reds there. They did the plunking, and Leake took steps towards the runner and was talking back keeping the thing going. So I guess you "could" make a case and say Harrison did his part in escalating it, but it was a very minor part IMO.

Please, keep in mind that I didn't get to watch the game tonight...so my point of view is completely based on the replays.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=23618687&c_id=mlb

Noo. Leake was like, "dude, wth?" when Harrison looked at him like he head hunted. Harrison could have mosied to 1st without an attitude and nothing would have occurred.

_Sir_Charles_
08-05-2012, 12:53 AM
Noo. Leake was like, "dude, wth?" when Harrison looked at him like he head hunted. Harrison could have mosied to 1st without an attitude and nothing would have occurred.

Btw...I did notice that he made VERY little attempt to get out of the way of that pitch too. It's not like it was coming in at 102.

Brutus
08-05-2012, 12:53 AM
I fear Bcubb is on to something in his random thoughts thread...

The Pirates are making me forget about how much I hate Chris Carpenter and the Cardinals. How will Chris explain that to his son?

_Sir_Charles_
08-05-2012, 12:54 AM
I just noticed something. What's up with the name change Brutus?

Brutus
08-05-2012, 01:00 AM
I just noticed something. What's up with the name change Brutus?

Pimpin' is against the law and the fuzz was on to me :)

_Sir_Charles_
08-05-2012, 01:02 AM
Pimpin' is against the law and the fuzz was on to me :)

"fuzz" is a derogatory comment towards the police. We don't stand for that kind of thing here. -2 rep points. Sorry. :p

No biggie. Just curious. I didn't realize it was you at first.

Larkin Fan
08-05-2012, 01:03 AM
I'm not sure why Harrison was so upset. Mosquito bites are more painful than a Mike Leake fastball.

Brutus
08-05-2012, 01:03 AM
"fuzz" is a derogatory comment towards the police. We don't stand for that kind of thing here. -2 rep points. Sorry. :p

No biggie. Just curious. I didn't realize it was you at first.

In seriousness, no major reason. Just got bored and decided for a change. I'll probably change my profile signature to "Artist formerly known as Brutus the Pimp."

corkedbat
08-05-2012, 01:18 AM
Didn't see Harrison get hit until just now on Baseball Tonight. Looked to me like Harrison was pretty much out of the way, say it was gonna miss him and put his hip into the ball. Just another bush league chump on a roster full of them. Too bad relievers don't bat often, I'd have something special for Hughes if I were the Reds and he came to the plate.

I'd have more respect for the Pyrites (fool's gold) if they just plunked oen of our guys and just got over all this whining and chippie crap (even though I don't beleve that there is any way that either HNP was intentional).

Matt700wlw
08-05-2012, 01:28 AM
I love it. Cincinnati and Pittsburgh are supposed to be rivals, and it looks like the baseball end of it is starting to refuel again.

Reds/Pirates, Bengals/Steelers. It makes the world go 'round.

CrackerJack
08-05-2012, 01:50 AM
I love it. Cincinnati and Pittsburgh are supposed to be rivals, and it looks like the baseball end of it is starting to refuel again.

Reds/Pirates, Bengals/Steelers. It makes the world go 'round.

It was the same thing in 1990 with Bonds/Bonilla/Van Slyke and Larkin/Davis/O'Neil, good to see the two franchises where they're at again while it lasts.

dougdirt
08-05-2012, 01:56 AM
They sure are cocky for a team who hasn't won squat in 20 years.


I don't mind the cockiness of pro athletes. This Pirates team is good. Maybe not as good as we are, but pretty darn good. They aren't the Astros.

George Anderson
08-05-2012, 02:28 AM
I think Hurdle's position would be more along the lines of we haven't hit anybody, we've done NOTHING to warrant a "warning" at all...and now if one of my pitchers even accidentally hits a batter, he's gone. You can't just assume we're going to retaliate. And I don't think anybody thought Leake's ball was intentional...except the batter for a few seconds.

I'll readily admit that I'm not unhappy about the call/decision...but I'll just as readily admit that it was very unfair towards the Pirates in that situation. They had done nothing to warrant a warning. Nada.

The rule states if the umpire in his judgement felt that a pitcher was intentionally tryiing to hit a batter then both dugouts are warned. You cannot warn just one dugout.

Hurdle knew that rule, he was just angry because IMO he fully intended on retaliating but couldn't with out losing his SP after the warning was given.

_Sir_Charles_
08-05-2012, 02:35 AM
The rule states if the umpire in his judgement felt that a pitcher was intentionally tryiing to hit a batter then both dugouts are warned. You cannot warn just one dugout.

Hurdle knew that rule, he was just angry because IMO he fully intended on retaliating but couldn't with out losing his SP after the warning was given.

Or he was angry because Hurdle felt there was no actual intent in that HBP and the warnings weren't justified. If the warning was given because of the way Harrison responded...that's not a valid reason to warn both dugouts...right? It has to be an intentional plunking by the pitcher...not a hitter's reaction. (I don't know...I'm asking)

George Anderson
08-05-2012, 02:46 AM
Or he was angry because Hurdle felt there was no actual intent in that HBP and the warnings weren't justified. If the warning was given because of the way Harrison responded...that's not a valid reason to warn both dugouts...right? It has to be an intentional plunking by the pitcher...not a hitter's reaction. (I don't know...I'm asking)

It just goes back to an umpires judgement if it was intentional or not. I gaurantee this, with what happened the night before Brian Gorman was going to pay special attention to anything he perceived might be intentional on a beaning. Had the McCutchon incident not happened the night before then IMO it is likely warnings would not be given.

crazybob60
08-05-2012, 02:58 AM
I will not lie...as a die hard Reds fan, when I saw that forearm shiver by Hughes and then his cockiness of strutting afterwards on his walk back to the mound, I was so hoping that one of the Reds from the dugout was on his way out to get him. I realize that it may have cost a suspension, but the fan in me was really hoping for it just because I don't want that happening to my team. I mean he did this to Navarro. I can only imagine if it would have been Phillips or possibly Hanigan, Rolen, or Ludwick maybe that it would have turned into something much more. I dunno, I guess it just all builds up for tomorrow. I bet at the start of the game, if a pitch comes in close, the tension will be able to be cut with a knife.

I love rivalries.

CrackerJack
08-05-2012, 03:11 AM
I will not lie...as a die hard Reds fan, when I saw that forearm shiver by Hughes and then his cockiness of strutting afterwards on his walk back to the mound, I was so hoping that one of the Reds from the dugout was on his way out to get him. I realize that it may have cost a suspension, but the fan in me was really hoping for it just because I don't want that happening to my team. I mean he did this to Navarro. I can only imagine if it would have been Phillips or possibly Hanigan, Rolen, or Ludwick maybe that it would have turned into something much more. I dunno, I guess it just all builds up for tomorrow. I bet the tension at the start if a pitch comes in close, will be able to be cut with a knife.

I love rivalries.

Can't say I've ever seen a pitcher do that to a base runner, Navarro looked completely surprised, and if he were expecting it, would've likely knocked Hughes' on his backside. The whole thing was silly and along with Harrison's antics, it's obvious the Reds' have gotten into their heads and game. Nothing wrong with that - at least no one is going to the media and whining about it unlike Carpenter and Larussa.

Caveat Emperor
08-05-2012, 03:24 AM
In their heads now

This.

Big Klu
08-05-2012, 04:15 AM
Pimpin' is against the law and the fuzz was on to me :)

Well, pimpin' ain't easy.

Big Klu
08-05-2012, 04:20 AM
I bet at the start of the game, if a pitch comes in close, the tension will be able to be cut with a knife.

I love rivalries.

Homer's got a little bit of a mean streak in him. Not saying that he's going to throw at anyone, but he's certainly not afraid to throw inside.

The Operator
08-05-2012, 05:40 AM
I don't mind the cockiness of pro athletes. This Pirates team is good. Maybe not as good as we are, but pretty darn good. They aren't the Astros.They have nothing historical to back it up though. I'm fine with cockiness, but when you've done nothing for 20 years and then start picking fights and strutting like you're the 1927 Yankees?

They sure have some delusions of grandeur.

oneupper
08-05-2012, 07:56 AM
The rule states if the umpire in his judgement felt that a pitcher was intentionally tryiing to hit a batter then both dugouts are warned. You cannot warn just one dugout.

Hurdle knew that rule, he was just angry because IMO he fully intended on retaliating but couldn't with out losing his SP after the warning was given.

I lip-read the ump saying "I want to stop this NOW" to Hurdle, before Clint went off on him.

SunDeck
08-05-2012, 08:13 AM
They have nothing historical to back it up though. I'm fine with cockiness, but when you've done nothing for 20 years and then start picking fights and strutting like you're the 1927 Yankees?

They sure have some delusions of grandeur.

You realize you're arguing that the Reds have no business being a little cocky, either? Why should a guy who was in grade school the last time his team was a contender have to bear the weight of an organization's historical poor performance?

I can only wonder what fans of any other club must think if they happen to stumble on this thread.

The Operator
08-05-2012, 08:24 AM
You realize you're arguing that the Reds have no business being a little cocky, either? Why should a guy who was in grade school the last time his team was a contender have to bear the weight of an organization's historical poor performance?

I can only wonder what fans of any other club must think if they happen to stumble on this thread.Where have I said The Reds have a right to be cocky? They really aren't, for the most part.

But losing for 9 years is a little bit different than losing for 20 years. The last time The Pirates had a winning season was Bill Clinton's first year of his first term as President.

And unless those other fans are Pirates fans, not sure what type of a problem they'd have. The Pirates and their fans need to act like they've been there before.

puca
08-05-2012, 08:25 AM
You realize you're arguing that the Reds have no business being a little cocky, either? Why should a guy who was in grade school the last time his team was a contender have to bear the weight of an organization's historical poor performance?

I can only wonder what fans of any other club must think if they happen to stumble on this thread.

Folks around here sure do love to hate that's for sure. It annoys me to no end.

puca
08-05-2012, 08:40 AM
Where have I said The Reds have a right to be cocky? They really aren't, for the most part.

But losing for 9 years is a little bit different than losing for 20 years. The last time The Pirates had a winning season was Bill Clinton's first year of his first term as President.

And unless those other fans are Pirates fans, not sure what type of a problem they'd have. The Pirates and their fans need to act like they've been there before.

I can only assume that based on the relative recent success of the Cardinals versus the Reds you thought Brandon was way out of line in 2010.

elfmanvt07
08-05-2012, 08:52 AM
I will not lie...as a die hard Reds fan, when I saw that forearm shiver by Hughes and then his cockiness of strutting afterwards on his walk back to the mound, I was so hoping that one of the Reds from the dugout was on his way out to get him. I realize that it may have cost a suspension, but the fan in me was really hoping for it just because I don't want that happening to my team. I mean he did this to Navarro. I can only imagine if it would have been Phillips or possibly Hanigan, Rolen, or Ludwick maybe that it would have turned into something much more. I dunno, I guess it just all builds up for tomorrow. I bet at the start of the game, if a pitch comes in close, the tension will be able to be cut with a knife.

I love rivalries.

I would have LOVED to see him try that on Rolen. Benches would have cleared.

The Operator
08-05-2012, 08:55 AM
I can only assume that based on the relative recent success of the Cardinals versus the Reds you thought Brandon was way out of line in 2010.I wish he hadn't said it at the time, although it was a little different. The Cardinals had whined, complained and made excuses over everything that didn't go their way for about 8 years, and Brandon said something. But yea, do I wish he hadn't said it? sure. I won't go as far as to say he was out of line though.

What exactly have The Reds done to draw the ire of The Pirates, aside from winning more games than them? Apparently The Pirates are just as bad as The Cardinals were about thinking every single HBP was an intentional pitch. And The Reds sure haven't shoved anyone out of the baseline and strutted around all after giving up the go-ahead run in the 8th inning.

Like I keep saying. The Pirates and their fans need to act like they've been there before.

Redsfan320
08-05-2012, 08:55 AM
I would have LOVED to see him try that on Rolen. Benches would have cleared.


I thought the same thing. I'm not sure how either of the other guys mentioned would have responded (thought I don't think Hanny woulda been pleased), but Rolen would have, without a doubt, promptly lain him out on the field.

320

elfmanvt07
08-05-2012, 09:01 AM
I thought the same thing. I'm not sure how either of the other guys mentioned would have responded (thought I don't think Hanny woulda been pleased), but Rolen would have, without a doubt, promptly lain him out on the field.

320

"I'll take, 'fun and interesting ways to get your nose broken for a thousand...'"

RedsBaron
08-05-2012, 09:09 AM
I would have LOVED to see him try that on Rolen. Benches would have cleared.

At the very least a few Pirates would have had to carry the unconscious Hughes back to their dugout as the Pirates bench cleared enough to provide a place to lay him. ;)

BuckeyeRedleg
08-05-2012, 09:12 AM
I kind of feel like we are now STL and PIT is the old us.

Little puppy dog nipping at the heels of the big pitbull.

"Look at me, look at me.....I'm gettin' really mad now.....you're gonna be sorry rrrruff rrruff." - channeling scrappy doo (ruh roh, raggy).

oneupper
08-05-2012, 09:12 AM
Frankly, I'd prefer if this "rivalry" remained low-key. The Pirates are a long-suffering team, much like the REDS and the Brewers. I don't want to dislike them.

There will be years (count on it), when the REDS are not going to be good or win and I think many of us would prefer the Pirates and Brewers to win something, rather than the Cubs and Cards.

membengal
08-05-2012, 09:40 AM
Nope, still find it easy to access my old repository of hatred for them.

Have fan PTSD from the Stargell/Moreno/Parker/Tekulve/Madlock years.

Still remember the difficulty of dealing with the Van Slyke/Bonds/Bonilla/Drabek teams.

This just feels right.

SunDeck
08-05-2012, 09:42 AM
Like I keep saying. The Pirates and their fans need to act like they've been there before.

And what is the definition of acting as though one has been there before? You seem to be saying that after years of continued success, a team earns the right to act in exactly the opposite way. But this is all silly, if you ask me. So, the Pirates and the Reds had a little dust up over hit batsmen? They're big boys, it's part of the game and can happen between good teams or bad teams, but the notion that a team must first earn the right to defend its players, or have a little self confidence is just preposterous. The major leagues is made up of the best 1200+ baseball players in the world, a bunch of hugely talented athletes, some of whom get to play for the so-called big market teams and the ones ESPN likes to profile constantly, and some who get to play for the Pirates and the Reds. But one thing they all have in common is that they have all earned the right to have a little self confidence about their own talents. Rod Carew, Tony Gwynn, Harmen Killebrew, Ken Griffey Junior and dozens of the games best players never got to play in a world series- should they have not been allowed to have a little swagger?

BuckeyeRedleg
08-05-2012, 09:44 AM
First time I cried as a Reds fan. The 1979 NLCS, in which the Pirates swept my Reds 3-0.

I was 8.

MartyFan
08-05-2012, 09:44 AM
The more I see of Mike Leake, the less impressed I am with him. I think he is a punk.

oneupper
08-05-2012, 09:47 AM
First time I cried as a Reds fan. The 1979 NLCS, in which the Pirates swept my Reds 3-0.

I was 8.

I remember '70, '72 and '75 and yes 1990. I'd say the REDs got the best of the Pirates in the '70s.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-05-2012, 09:49 AM
I remember '70, '72 and '75 and yes 1990. I'd say the REDs got the best of the Pirates in the '70s.

Yes, they did. Unfortunately, I was too young to appreciate the BRM era.

1979 is my starting point and the Pirates broke my heart. We did get payback in 1990 and that was nice.

traderumor
08-05-2012, 09:53 AM
And what is the definition of acting as though one has been there before? You seem to be saying that after years of continued success, a team earns the right to act in exactly the opposite way. But this is all silly, if you ask me. So, the Pirates and the Reds had a little dust up over hit batsmen? They're big boys, it's part of the game and can happen between good teams or bad teams, but the notion that a team must first earn the right to defend its players, or have a little self confidence is just preposterous. The major leagues is made up of the best 1200+ baseball players in the world, a bunch of hugely talented athletes, some of whom get to play for the so-called big market teams and the ones ESPN likes to profile constantly, and some who get to play for the Pirates and the Reds. But one thing they all have in common is that they have all earned the right to have a little self confidence about their own talents. Rod Carew, Tony Gwynn, Harmen Killebrew, Ken Griffey Junior and dozens of the games best players never got to play in a world series- should they have not been allowed to have a little swagger?I think the intent of that comment is to ask for professionalism from the Pirates players, not the knee-jerk accusations and stomping around the dugout dropping f bombs, and making a hard tag trying to instigate something. I would say the Reds have been acting professionally with these events, while the Pirates look very childish. This is in contrast to the Cardinals series of 2010 where the Reds were acting like the Pirates are now.

As for fans of any team, they are what they are.

guttle11
08-05-2012, 10:33 AM
I kind of feel like we are now STL and PIT is the old us.

Little puppy dog nipping at the heels of the big pitbull.

"Look at me, look at me.....I'm gettin' really mad now.....you're gonna be sorry rrrruff rrruff." - channeling scrappy doo (ruh roh, raggy).

I think there's some truth in that, but the Cardinals had "whined" for quite a while about the Reds. Slick balls, accusing Arroyo of pine tar, etc...Unless there is something that's gone unreported, this all started from a single HBP. I think the Pirates showed up on Friday looking to show how tough they are. They were unprepared for the moment. All they needed to go off was a spark.

I think this has shown how much the Reds learned from the 2010 kerfuffle. From McCutchen spouting off in the dugout, to Burnett pointing, to Hughes trying to bait them into a brawl...the Reds just kept their heads down and won a tough, back and forth game.

Of course, Burnett could incite a brawl today, but I don't think so. I think the Reds are focused solely on the scoreboard. The Pirates are not.

Tony Cloninger
08-05-2012, 10:35 AM
First time I cried as a Reds fan. The 1979 NLCS, in which the Pirates swept my Reds 3-0.

I was 8.

I was 12....did not understand how they could be swept....and why they blew the 1st 2 games.... and did not realize the dynasty was well on it's way to being over and 1982-83 was just around the corner.

cincrazy
08-05-2012, 10:39 AM
i think the intent of that comment is to ask for professionalism from the pirates players, not the knee-jerk accusations and stomping around the dugout dropping f bombs, and making a hard tag trying to instigate something. I would say the reds have been acting professionally with these events, while the pirates look very childish. This is in contrast to the cardinals series of 2010 where the reds were acting like the pirates are now.

as for fans of any team, they are what they are.

they are who we thought they were!

CySeymour
08-05-2012, 10:39 AM
Rod Carew, Tony Gwynn, Harmen Killebrew, Ken Griffey Junior and dozens of the games best players never got to play in a world series- should they have not been allowed to have a little swagger?

Pardon my nitpicking: Gwynn played in 2 World Series, Killebrew played in one.

NJReds
08-05-2012, 10:40 AM
I would love it if Burnett has it in his head that he has to retaliate instead of pitch. This is the same guy who completely wilted in NY ... couldn't handle the pressure. Let him focus on revenge instead of getting outs, I'm sure that'll work out great for him.

As for Pirate fans. I don't care if they're mad. We'd be going nuts on this board if we had lost the first game and Hanrahan drilled Votto (assuming he was playing, of course). Fans are fans.

SunDeck
08-05-2012, 11:06 AM
Pardon my nitpicking: Gwynn played in 2 World Series, Killebrew played in one.

On the contrary, pardon my not fact checking. :thumbup:

Vottomatic
08-05-2012, 12:40 PM
Burnett won't be a Pirate next season. And I doubt Bedard is either. Bedard hasn't been great like Burnett has though.

I'm sure the Pirates are realizing this is their one shot before they become bottomfeeders again for the next 20 years. :D

dougdirt
08-05-2012, 12:44 PM
They have nothing historical to back it up though. I'm fine with cockiness, but when you've done nothing for 20 years and then start picking fights and strutting like you're the 1927 Yankees?

They sure have some delusions of grandeur.

Who cares about the last 20 years? None of these guys were on 17 of those teams.

Joseph
08-05-2012, 12:47 PM
Who cares about the last 20 years? None of these guys were on 17 of those teams.

Agreed. These Pirates don't have to answer for those teams. They are their own group.

Caveat Emperor
08-05-2012, 01:04 PM
I kind of feel like we are now STL and PIT is the old us.

Little puppy dog nipping at the heels of the big pitbull.

"Look at me, look at me.....I'm gettin' really mad now.....you're gonna be sorry rrrruff rrruff." - channeling scrappy doo (ruh roh, raggy).

The Pirates are clearly suffering from little-brother syndrome here, but I think the Reds need to win a WS before we can claim to be anything other than the middle child in this family.

traderumor
08-05-2012, 01:06 PM
they are who we thought they were!That was a universal attributed to worldwide fandom, including Reds fans.

Vottomatic
08-05-2012, 01:08 PM
The difference is, the Reds are built to stay for years to come and the Pirates aren't.

Burnett, Bedard are free agents and surely will walk.
I wasn't impressed with the Pirates moves at the deadline, and actually felt like their GM was making moves simply to make moves. In fact, I think he weakened their team.

Reds didn't drain their farm system. Triple A got depleted in the Latos trade, but prospects have moved up quickly this season and the future is quickly looking good again in the Reds farm system. Plus, the guys traded for Latos were blocked by Votto and Mez. And Boxberger wouldn't have sniffed pitching in the current Reds excellent bullpen.

Phhhl
08-05-2012, 01:08 PM
First time I cried as a Reds fan. The 1979 NLCS, in which the Pirates swept my Reds 3-0.

I was 8.

To this day I cannot listen to Sister Sledge.

vaticanplum
08-05-2012, 01:18 PM
The difference is, the Reds are built to stay for years to come and the Pirates aren't.

Burnett, Bedard are free agents and surely will walk.
I wasn't impressed with the Pirates moves at the deadline, and actually felt like their GM was making moves simply to make moves. In fact, I think he weakened their team.

Reds didn't drain their farm system. Triple A got depleted in the Latos trade, but prospects have moved up quickly this season and the future is quickly looking good again in the Reds farm system. Plus, the guys traded for Latos were blocked by Votto and Mez. And Boxberger wouldn't have sniffed pitching in the current Reds excellent bullpen.

I think the Reds are well-built for the future but I disagree that the Pirates aren't. They scare me much more after this year than they do this year. The Rodriguez trade speaks to that for me: they're shoring up the rotation in a way that helps long-term more than short-term. Bedard is no loss and I'm not sure they won't make efforts to re-sign Burnett. The Pirates still have a very low payroll and after the year they've had, I think there is a strong chance that they will up it significantly next year. I think McKenry will start as full-time catcher.

They're a solid team as it is right now, one that's been playing above its abilities most of the year, but a solid team with few glaring weaknesses nonetheless. More importantly, their farm system is pretty stacked. Lots of potentially huge talent and a lot of pitching depth (which is why they can afford to trade pitching prospects at a pretty good clip). Keith Law ranked them eighth in the majors this year; they've been particularly shrewd with international signings.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-05-2012, 01:25 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Pirates take a step back in 2013, much like the Reds did in 2011. From there, I still think they have a bright future.

_Sir_Charles_
08-05-2012, 01:30 PM
The difference is, the Reds are built to stay for years to come and the Pirates aren't.

I'd have to disagree somewhat. I agree that our core is MUCH better. But their farm is much better as well. Yes, Bedard & Burnett will most likely walk next season. But high end pitching prospects is what the Pirates have to replace them. They've got some very good prospects in that system. IMO they're set up right now kinda similarly to how the Reds were right around the time of the Bruce, Votto, Cueto, Bailey tandem were breaking through. If they continue to develop the farm like they have been, I think they're built to stay just as much as the Reds are. They've got more holes right now but they've got more parts to plug them than we do.


I wasn't impressed with the Pirates moves at the deadline, and actually felt like their GM was making moves simply to make moves. In fact, I think he weakened their team.

I agree with this. I didn't understand several of those moves. And it "may" have weakened their team for this season...but not for the long haul. They didn't really give up any high-end prospects. Gorkys Hernandez hasn't impressed at all. Robbie Grossman is a good prospect, but he's effectively blocked by Bell, Marte and McCutchen. The Wandy trade was effectively a lesser version of the Latos deal we did. Shorter time frame, less effective pitcher, but lesser prospects and blocked. Wandy will make a solid back end of the rotation pitcher once the young bucks come up.

cincrazy
08-05-2012, 01:41 PM
That was a universal attributed to worldwide fandom, including Reds fans.

Oh I know. Any time I get the chance to make a Denny Green joke, I do it :). I wasn't implying anything about what you said with that comment lol. I just loved that press conference, it's one of my favorite lines.

cincrazy
08-05-2012, 01:42 PM
The Pirates pitching is going to be SICK for years to come. That alone will be enough to insure that they compete year after year. Now, whether they will develop position players at the same rate of success... we will see. That's going to decide whether they compete for titles or not.

dougdirt
08-05-2012, 01:49 PM
The Pirates pitching is going to be SICK for years to come. That alone will be enough to insure that they compete year after year. Now, whether they will develop position players at the same rate of success... we will see. That's going to decide whether they compete for titles or not.

Always tough to say that with certainty given injuries with pitchers.

cincrazy
08-05-2012, 01:51 PM
Always tough to say that with certainty given injuries with pitchers.

True. And sometimes even sure bets like Shelby Miller hit major bumps in the road. I should've said their pitching APPEARS to be sick for the next several years. But of course, no certainies there.

RedFanAlways1966
08-05-2012, 01:55 PM
True. And sometimes even sure bets like Shelby Miller hit major bumps in the road. I should've said their pitching APPEARS to be sick for the next several years. But of course, no certainies there.

Yep. Injuries or they can go 2012 Tim Lincecum. Same goes for the Cincinnati team. I hope teams both stay good... REDS/Pirates is more appealing than any combination that includes the Cardinals, Brewers or Cubs.

George Anderson
08-05-2012, 02:05 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Pirates take a step back in 2013, much like the Reds did in 2011. From there, I still think they have a bright future.

The AAA farm club of the Pirates is the Indianapolis Indians. Look at their record. They are insanely good.

dougdirt
08-05-2012, 02:09 PM
The AAA farm club of the Pirates is the Indianapolis Indians. Look at their record. They are insanely good.

Sure, but Starling Marte was the only actual prospect on that team and he isn't even there anymore. They are winning with a bunch of veteran types. The types who don't make much difference in the Majors.

reds44
08-05-2012, 02:11 PM
Sure, but Starling Marte was the only actual prospect on that team and he isn't even there anymore. They are winning with a bunch of veteran types. The types who don't make much difference in the Majors.
The sent Marte down already?

EDIT: Considering he just flew out, I guess not.

dougdirt
08-05-2012, 02:12 PM
The sent Marte down already?

EDIT: Considering he just flew out, I guess not.

No, I said that he was the only prospect on that team and he isn't even there anymore.

cincrazy
08-05-2012, 02:16 PM
Doug what do you think of Starling's long-term prospects?

dougdirt
08-05-2012, 02:33 PM
Doug what do you think of Starling's long-term prospects?

Plate discipline issues could really be a problem. In the minors he had a 3.9 K/BB ratio. Over 3 is bad, so being 30% worse than that is really bad. It has translated to the Majors too, 11 strikeouts and no walks in 39 trips to the plate....