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View Full Version : Goodness gracious (Astros)



hebroncougar
08-07-2012, 02:05 PM
Did anyone see how the Nats scored the go ahead run in the 11th last night? Was that the Astros, or the Cleveland Indians pre the Lou Brown locker room speech?

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?c_id=mlb&content_id=23685139&query=game_pk%3D319367

Plus Plus
08-07-2012, 02:08 PM
That is so awful that it literally made me feel sad.

westofyou
08-07-2012, 02:09 PM
It was uglier than any expansion baseball I've ever seen

camisadelgolf
08-07-2012, 02:11 PM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/310/226/fc4.jpg

traderumor
08-07-2012, 02:21 PM
C'mon, they're just building for the future ;)

redsmetz
08-07-2012, 02:25 PM
I think had that play been set in a movie, you might have dismissed it as overkill because it was too unrealistic. Oh my goodness, how many degrees of awfulness was that?

corkedbat
08-07-2012, 02:29 PM
They look more like the Rastros - ruh'ro Yorge!

Tom Servo
08-07-2012, 02:30 PM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/310/226/fc4.jpg
http://blog.operationreality.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/chemistry-dog-no-idea-e1332533698640.jpg

RedsMan3203
08-07-2012, 02:41 PM
Bad News Bears anyone?

mdccclxix
08-07-2012, 02:59 PM
I love the replay shot showing how the 3rd baseman almost gets hit by the throw to 1st. WOW!

Sea Ray
08-07-2012, 03:05 PM
Don't keep us all in suspense. What happened?

We're really going to miss those Astros next year...

cumberlandreds
08-07-2012, 03:05 PM
That little kid at the end was even laughing and making fun of them. They are really awful. Just think, they go to the AL west next season to compete against two of biggest high rollers in baseball,Angels and Rangers. Add to that a good A's team that is competing for the divison title and a young and improving Mariners team. I could see the Astros breaking the 62 Mets record of 120 losses next season and by a wide margin too.

Chip R
08-07-2012, 03:28 PM
I've seen A Ball teams field better than the Astros.

dougdirt
08-07-2012, 03:32 PM
I love the replay shot showing how the 3rd baseman almost gets hit by the throw to 1st. WOW!

I am not sure that the third baseman's glove didn't hit the throw to 1st, which is what caused it to be so off line.

vaticanplum
08-07-2012, 03:55 PM
sbnation nails this, as usual:

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/8/7/3226043/houston-astros-bad-play-oh-man-what-is-this-i-dont-even

HotCorner
08-07-2012, 03:57 PM
As the Braves noted ...

"You can’t spell DISASTROUS without ASTRO!"

traderumor
08-07-2012, 04:14 PM
I tell you what, the first time I watched that play, it was a bit humorous, but just kinda made me remember that disaster of a play that the Reds made that allowed J.D. Martinez to get a t-ball inside the park home run.

But then I don't think anything can top the slapstick comedy of the pitcher/1b collision, followed by Matt Downs flying through the air. That is what clinched it, couldn't stop laughing there for a minute, had to watch it a few more times.

Might rank up there with the Gus Frerotte left handed interception in the Bungles worst archives.

marcshoe
08-07-2012, 04:19 PM
Last week I went to a class A game and left marvelling at the infielders' inability to pick up a baseball. I particularly thought that Pirates prospect Alen Hanson would never stick at short.

I've changed my mind. He could play in Houston's infield right now.

Superdude
08-07-2012, 04:38 PM
:laugh: That uncoordinated, melodramatic dive of the third basemen makes that play for me. At least they're contributing humor at this point.

Brutus
08-07-2012, 05:08 PM
Don't keep us all in suspense. What happened?

We're really going to miss those Astros next year...

Basically there was a runner at first and a sac bunt in the top of the 11th. The Nats put down a sac bunt where the Astros' pitcher and first baseman collided trying to field it. Then the pitcher threw the ball down the right field line, scoring the runner from first. And then the throw to home plate from the right fielder was about 10 feet too high, which sent the runner all the way to third.

powersackers
08-07-2012, 05:31 PM
I am not sure that the third baseman's glove didn't hit the throw to 1st, which is what caused it to be so off line.

His goal seemed to be to disrupt the play as much as possible. Like SBNation article said, "Grenade!"

bucksfan2
08-07-2012, 05:41 PM
I have seen the Reds of yesteryear throw the ball all over the park like that before. The season gets long and the Astro's have been out of it since January.

On a side note MLB should be embarassed by the product the Astro's are sending out there right now.

westofyou
08-07-2012, 05:54 PM
I have seen the Reds of yesteryear throw the ball all over the park like that before. The season gets long and the Astro's have been out of it since January.

On a side note MLB should be embarassed by the product the Astro's are sending out there right now.

http://www.theblogmocracy.com/wp-content/uploads/1962-Mets-yearbook.jpg


Too late... personally I love it when teams like this appear, it really belies how hard the game and the business really is and how lucky it can be as well. In short it makes the game human and I'm all for that.

UKFlounder
08-07-2012, 05:54 PM
Wasn't it against the Astros when a Red (Eric Davis, IIRC) bunted a ball and the pitcher threw it past first base down the right field line. The result was almost like a bunted inside-the-park-homer, but I think it was ruled a 3 base error. I think it happened in the Astrodome and maybe Joe Niekro was the pitcher, but perhaps I'm imagining part or all of this.

Anybody else remember that?

15fan
08-07-2012, 06:05 PM
I saw Anderson Machado score on his own bunt in a game against the Braves.

westofyou
08-07-2012, 06:15 PM
I saw Anderson Machado score on his own bunt in a game against the Braves.

Those were the days of wine and dozes

Virginia Beach Reds
08-07-2012, 06:22 PM
I love the replay shot showing how the 3rd baseman almost gets hit by the throw to 1st. WOW!

Would have saved a run! That was one of the worst defensive sequences I've ever seen. If the throw from 1st to home would have been in the same time zone as the catcher, Bernadino would have been out and we would not have had a good laugh today.

dfs
08-07-2012, 06:49 PM
On a side note MLB should be embarassed by the product the Astro's are sending out there right now.

I'm sure Bud has top men investigating what is going on in Houston.

Top men.

Maybe even Jeff Loria himself.

edabbs44
08-07-2012, 08:43 PM
On a related topic, there was NO ONE in the stands.

Cooper
08-08-2012, 09:29 AM
How many wrong/bad/erroneous things happened on that play - for both teams --i put the over under at 10.

bucksfan2
08-08-2012, 09:40 AM
I'm sure Bud has top men investigating what is going on in Houston.

Top men.

Maybe even Jeff Loria himself.

I would imagine this is a black eye to Bud and his cronies. If you want a model of how to screw up a MLB franchise the Astros are that. The problem I have isn't the fire sale and it really isn't the awful baseball, its there is nothing on the Astro's MLB roster that really belongs there. When you look at the current version of the Astros were is the hope? When they traded guys like Borne and got two of the Astro's mid prospects they became to top 2 in the Astro's organization. When the Reds were playing in their lost decade they at least had some players to watch.

There was a time when the Tigers were awful, had 3 (?) pitchers who could have lost 20 games each, but they were all young guys who were taking their lumps, there was hope. The Astro's hope lies in the likes of a 5'7" second baseman and a Jordan Schafer.

Always Red
08-08-2012, 10:00 AM
http://www.theblogmocracy.com/wp-content/uploads/1962-Mets-yearbook.jpg


Too late... personally I love it when teams like this appear, it really belies how hard the game and the business really is and how lucky it can be as well. In short it makes the game human and I'm all for that.

It was all good until Throneberry plowed into Craig whilst he was making a play on the ball.

WildcatFan
08-08-2012, 10:18 AM
Houston loses SPECTACULARLY.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=23716253&topic_id=&c_id=mlb&tcid=vpp_copy_23716253&v=3

Two on, two out, down 1, Aoki rips a sure double to the wall that Bernadinha takes away with an absurd catch.

vaticanplum
08-16-2012, 01:10 AM
Good lord. As of today, the Astros have won 39 games. August 15; 39 games. That's less than a month and a half worth of games.

Only two other teams in baseball are even still in the 40s in the W column (Cubs and Rockies). The Astros have already lost 80 games. Is it a given that they get to 100 losses? Are we taking bets on the date they hit it?

Tom Servo
08-16-2012, 01:12 AM
The real sad thing is that I actually find them more interesting to watch now than I did the last 5 years or so.

brad1176
08-16-2012, 08:58 AM
Check out the Astros record month by month:
April 9 14
May 13 15
June 10 17
July 3 24
August 4 10

They've won seven games since the end of June :eek:

mdccclxix
08-16-2012, 10:45 AM
Yeah, that's getting to be malpractice by their GM.

_Sir_Charles_
08-16-2012, 11:41 AM
Yeah, that's getting to be malpractice by their GM.

I disagree. I think they've done everything this season just about flawlessly. They've blown it up in spectacular fashion and in doing so they've replenished their farm system virtually overnight. They'll be bad (historically so) for a few years, but it'll pay dividends at the end IMO.

I fully expect Bud Norris to be dealt this offseason too (more trading partners). The only guys I think they'll keep are Altuve & that kid from the Red Sox (SS)...(just went blank on his name though)

traderumor
08-16-2012, 11:52 AM
I disagree. I think they've done everything this season just about flawlessly. They've blown it up in spectacular fashion and in doing so they've replenished their farm system virtually overnight. They'll be bad (historically so) for a few years, but it'll pay dividends at the end IMO.

I fully expect Bud Norris to be dealt this offseason too (more trading partners). The only guys I think they'll keep are Altuve & that kid from the Red Sox (SS)...(just went blank on his name though)I see more of a Pirates/Royals style "rebuild" in progress--get a bunch of marginal prospects to improve a disastrous farm system and call it "restocking." Too bad they're moving so we can continue beating up on their "rebuilding project."

_Sir_Charles_
08-16-2012, 11:59 AM
I see more of a Pirates/Royals style "rebuild" in progress--get a bunch of marginal prospects to improve a disastrous farm system and call it "restocking." Too bad they're moving so we can continue beating up on their "rebuilding project."

You've got to keep things in perspective. Those "marginal" prospects are all pretty much top 10 prospects in the Astros' system. Add to that the excellent draft they had and the surety that they'll be picking first for a few years I'd think...I'd say they did VERY well. The guys they traded away weren't exactly household names or highly regarded. Wandy was trending down for several years now. Carlos Lee? Yikes. Pence & Bourn they got solid returns for. Most of the others were just bench guys, bullpen guys or lower rotational guys. They didn't have much in terms of assets that they could deal for GOOD returns IMO.

As for the too bad they're moving comment...I can't agree more. Not only don't we get to pummel them senseless...but now I'll never get to see my beloved Redlegs in person. Ugh.

traderumor
08-16-2012, 12:03 PM
You've got to keep things in perspective. Those "marginal" prospects are all pretty much top 10 prospects in the Astros' system. Add to that the excellent draft they had and the surety that they'll be picking first for a few years I'd think...I'd say they did VERY well. The guys they traded away weren't exactly household names or highly regarded. Wandy was trending down for several years now. Carlos Lee? Yikes. Pence & Bourn they got solid returns for. Most of the others were just bench guys, bullpen guys or lower rotational guys. They didn't have much in terms of assets that they could deal for GOOD returns IMO.See, that's the thing where we diverge. Going from poor top 10 prospects to below average top 10 prospects is just spinning wheels. In that market, doing a bottom up restoration project will get you, well, Kansas City. He's got a great market and if all he is doing is trying to incrementally improve the farm system, then he will likely fail. The Pirates and Royals have proven that you can be perpetually rebuilding with this method.

He did a fire sale, I'm not going to applaud him for that, whatever the excuse may be.

camisadelgolf
08-26-2012, 09:34 AM
Another fine example.
http://www.fangraphs.com/not/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Astros2.gif

http://www.fangraphs.com/not/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Astros2a.gif

oneupper
08-26-2012, 09:41 AM
Another fine example.
http://www.fangraphs.com/not/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Astros2.gif

http://www.fangraphs.com/not/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Astros2a.gif

You gotta love how the pitcher still got the throw off.

redsmetz
08-26-2012, 10:05 AM
Another fine example.
http://www.fangraphs.com/not/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Astros2.gif

http://www.fangraphs.com/not/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Astros2a.gif

"What we have here is failure to communicate."

And, Oneupper, I agree it was impressive that the pitcher still got the throw off.

Chip R
08-26-2012, 11:13 AM
I think their new manager should have one rule: Stop running into each other.

camisadelgolf
09-16-2012, 05:25 AM
Wow.
http://deadspin.com/5943569

The Astros Are Selling Tickets To A Lunch With Joe Niekro, Who Has Been Dead Since 2006

Brutus
09-16-2012, 08:44 AM
The Astros Are Selling Tickets To A Lunch With Joe Niekro, Who Has Been Dead Since 2006

Fittingly, so have the Astros.

Reds/Flyers Fan
09-16-2012, 11:27 AM
The Astros are giving the Phillies fits this weekend, taking two of the first three in a HUGE series for Philly that they're fans/players probably chalked up for four automatic wins. For that Houston deserves a big thank you.

RFS62
09-17-2012, 02:29 PM
Went to the Cubs game last week when Travis Woods pitched. I bought two $5 tickets and walked right down to the 10th row behind the dugout, $100 plus seats. None of the ushers gave us a second look. I'm sure they were just glad to have anyone there at all.

I've never been to an MLB game with fewer people in attendance.

PuffyPig
09-17-2012, 03:20 PM
Wow.
http://deadspin.com/5943569

If you get to sit next to him, you can likely get his bun.

WildcatFan
09-17-2012, 03:33 PM
If you get to sit next to him, you can likely get his bun.

If you get to sit next to him, you can likely pick his brain.

Wonderful Monds
09-17-2012, 11:18 PM
If you get to sit next to him, you can likely pick his brain.

I'm guessing he's going to have a bone to pick with that.

camisadelgolf
09-18-2012, 12:40 AM
When he reads this thread, I'm sure he'll be dying with laughter.

The Operator
09-18-2012, 01:05 AM
When he reads this thread, I'm sure he'll be dying with laughter. A dying dead man? How... ironic. ;)

camisadelgolf
09-18-2012, 02:15 AM
A dying dead man? How... ironic. ;)
A dead dude dying of death, no less.

camisadelgolf
09-28-2013, 10:38 AM
http://mlb.mlb.com/images/8/0/0/61706800/Villar1_enh3ton8.gif

texasdave
09-28-2013, 11:06 AM
http://mlb.mlb.com/images/8/0/0/61706800/Villar1_enh3ton8.gif

Drop it likes it hot. This team is abysmal.

Steve4192
09-28-2013, 11:36 AM
I disagree. I think they've done everything this season just about flawlessly. They've blown it up in spectacular fashion and in doing so they've replenished their farm system virtually overnight. They'll be bad (historically so) for a few years, but it'll pay dividends at the end IMO.

I don't buy that.

They are three years into the 'rebuild' and still getting worse. Most 'five years plans' have the team showing improvement by year three. Unless the Astros are on a 'seven year plan' or a 'ten year plan', I think it is safe to say that the plan is flawed. Unless the plan is to be the most profitable team in the majors and alienate their fans. In that case, the plan has been wildly successful.

lollipopcurve
09-28-2013, 11:40 AM
Baseball needs to go to a lottery style draft like the NBA has. These teams shamelessly tanking is bad for the game, IMO.

_Sir_Charles_
09-28-2013, 12:40 PM
I don't buy that.

They are three years into the 'rebuild' and still getting worse. Most 'five years plans' have the team showing improvement by year three. Unless the Astros are on a 'seven year plan' or a 'ten year plan', I think it is safe to say that the plan is flawed. Unless the plan is to be the most profitable team in the majors and alienate their fans. In that case, the plan has been wildly successful.

People really aren't getting it. Most teams when they do a "rebuild" they have something to work with already. Either a few good players on the big club OR some solid kids on the farm who project to be certain ML starters. Houston didn't have either.

People here are arguing that they should've brought in good talent this year or last year...to what point? Seriously, why? To make a horrific team into a bad team?

And they're not 3 years into a rebuild. Only 2. That first year (2011)...they were just bad. They still had Lee, Pence, Bourn, etc. They just sucked too is all. Like I said earlier, even the "solid" major leaguers they had...they weren't primed to be excellent trade bait because they were playing poorly.

Next season should see some significant improvement. It also wouldn't surprise me to see them sign a couple of good FA's to help groom the better kids that come up next year and to help solidify the team.

Larkin Fan
09-28-2013, 12:43 PM
Wow, that gives a whole new meaning to attempting to drop a bunt down.

westofyou
09-28-2013, 12:51 PM
People aren't getting it?

3 straight 100 loss seasons, The Giants have one all time, the Reds one all time. The Angels none, the Rockies none. Teams that lose 100 games in 3 consecutive seasons are an abomination.

I get that.

Steve4192
09-28-2013, 01:02 PM
People aren't getting it?

3 straight 100 loss seasons, The Giants have one all time, the Reds one all time. The Angels none, the Rockies none. Teams that lose 100 games in 3 consecutive seasons are an abomination.

I get that.

Even if the Astros improve by 10 games next year ...... they'll still lose 100 games. Even if they improve by another 10 the following year and another 10 the year after that, they still wouldn't have a winning record.

By the time the Astros dig themselves out of the giant hole they have put themselves in, the youth movement will all be hitting their arbitration / free agent years and it will be time to start the whole 'rebuilding process' over again.

dougdirt
09-28-2013, 01:12 PM
Even if the Astros improve by 10 games next year ...... they'll still lose 100 games. Even if they improve by another 10 the following year and another 10 the year after that, they still wouldn't have a winning record.

By the time the Astros dig themselves out of the giant hole they have put themselves in, the youth movement will all be hitting their arbitration / free agent years and it will be time to start the whole 'rebuilding process' over again.

I don't think you realize just how much money they are going to have to spend when they choose to spend it. When the youth movement gets there, they are going to be able to pay any free agent they want. And then any other free agent they want. They have talked about $150M payrolls when they get their prospects up there.

_Sir_Charles_
09-28-2013, 01:35 PM
People aren't getting it?

3 straight 100 loss seasons, The Giants have one all time, the Reds one all time. The Angels none, the Rockies none. Teams that lose 100 games in 3 consecutive seasons are an abomination.

I get that.

That's not what I meant WoY and I think you know that. 2010 & 2011. Look at the state of the MLB team AND the farm. 2010 they finally showed the signs I'd been seeing on the horizon for 5 years. Nearly a 90 loss year. And they still had those "stars" there. But the problem wasn't just a rapidly aging roster with zero pitching, it was the depleted farm system. It ranked as the worst system in the majors (or second worst) for like 4 or 5 years straight. There was nothing down there left to trade to help the big club so their solution was to constantly bring in short-term FA's making the payroll skyrocket and further shortening the window of contention.

2011 was the first 100 loss season. But their farm system shot up to middle of the pack with the acquisitions from the trades. Now, they're a top 5 farm system with winning clubs at every level. They've got solid top prospects at all 4 IF positions, Castro at catcher, lots of excellent pitching prospects. 2 to 3 years from now this team will be VERY solid with a ton of payroll room.

I hate the Astros with a passion. Only the Cubs are above them on my list (Cards are close). But even I have to envy the dramatic turnaround they've taken. I was relishing the thought of them languishing in the cellar for a decade or two. It's stunning the turnover they've done at the ML level and the overhaul at the minor league level.

Personally, I find it laughable that people are complaining that they're not rebuilding faster. I've never seen a club tear it down and rebuild faster than what I'm seeing here. 2011 and 2012 were the tearing it down seasons (2011 didn't go far enough and Lunhow was brought in to finish it and build it back up). 2013 is the fresh start. And they've got a solid foundation to build on. 2014 should see Singleton (1b), Springer (of), and Cosart (p) up full time. 2015 should see Foltynewicz (p), DeShields (2b), Tropeano (p) up full time. There are quite a few others who should break through those 2 years as well. Most of their top talent is about 3 years away...but it's really good too.

Add all of that up with the money to sign guys long term AND to bring in FA guys to bolster a roster and it's a great plan. If they continue to draft like they have the past 2-3 years...they could be VERY good. But for now and next season (maybe 2015)...they'll be horrible.

_Sir_Charles_
09-28-2013, 01:36 PM
I don't think you realize just how much money they are going to have to spend when they choose to spend it. When the youth movement gets there, they are going to be able to pay any free agent they want. And then any other free agent they want. They have talked about $150M payrolls when they get their prospects up there.

Yep. And they'll have the money to do it, easily.

Doug, did you think it was possible to turn the farm around as quickly as they did? I sure didn't.

dougdirt
09-28-2013, 01:39 PM
Yep. And they'll have the money to do it, easily.

Doug, did you think it was possible to turn the farm around as quickly as they did? I sure didn't.

Sure, if you make the right deals and draft about as good as you can.

joshua
09-28-2013, 01:55 PM
They sold off everybody. They didn't attempt a rebuild, they salted the Earth. As far as prospects go, they're stacked. The difference is that their kids that would be in AAA are in the majors getting experience. In a few years the Astros are going to be a wrecking ball in the AL West. Oakland doesn't have the payroll to be good forever, they build to compete for a season or two, then put themselves in a position to rebuild and go for it again a few years down the road.

The Rangers' better days are behind them. They could continue to be a good or great team, and they certainly have some prospects, but they seem like a team that will try to put off rebuilding as long as possible in order to try to luck their way to a WS. Coming so close so many times, their fans will see it as giving up if they start tearing it down now.

The Angels are held down by Yankee-esque contracts, but have their overpriced aging players at their decline instead of ever having them at their prime. Which makes giving those contacts out so much more unforgivable than keeping someone like Jeter around when the fans have grown so attached. This organization is a mess. They have Trout. Everyone else around him aren't the players they're being paid to be. Nobody wants Pujols' or Hamilton's contracts.

The Astros will be able to outspend all of the other teams in their division also. Once they get a base of players who are ready for the majors, they'll be spending money on the FA market and everyone who doesnt understand what they're doing will be talking about what an "incredible comeback" the team has made.

I'm glad they're in the AL going forward. Houston is going to be a beast. They're in a much better position to complete long term. They aren't screwing around, this is what a real rebuilding effort looks like.

klw
09-28-2013, 09:29 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/images/8/0/0/61706800/Villar1_enh3ton8.gif

Dusty likes this.