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View Full Version : It may have been a mistake to stand pat at the deadline.



Wonderful Monds
08-08-2012, 06:06 PM
I know how good we looked during the winning streaks. But we were obviously getting better numbers from our hitters from playing bad teams with bad pitchers, and a lot of left handers against a lineup that eats them up.

That's not going to happen in the playoffs, and I fear a 2010 repeat if it turns out our bats can be neutralized more easily than we thought.

Redsfansince72
08-08-2012, 06:12 PM
Stubbs saved his job with a hot 10 days.. sadly the Reds FO might have been clouded by the way they were playing.. they need to look on the waiver wire and try and upgrade if they can, if they cant and the Pirates claim everybody to block us, When Joey is activated.. Got to be
Phillips 2B
Cozart or Stubbs
Votto 1B
Ludwick LF
Bruce RF
Rolen/Frazier 3B
Stubbs/Cozart
Hanigan/Mez C

Have to make a change to better this team down the stretch with the lineup.. the winning streak is the past.. if they can get Pierre on waivers, they should try. standing pat with this offense was a mistake.. in my opinion

mroby85
08-08-2012, 06:13 PM
It was a mistake then, and still is. Everyone who follows baseball knew that Drew Stubbs wouldn't continue that pace, etc. The schedule was soft, they were playing good baseball, but the schedule was soft. I'm not saying gloom and doom, they won't win the division now, but I don't think this Brewers series is why they should've made a move, everyone should've known this was coming offensively.

GoReds19
08-08-2012, 06:15 PM
They were beating up on bad teams. Walt was fooled into staying pat when it was obvious this team needed some help on offense.

HometownHero
08-08-2012, 06:18 PM
It was a mistake then, and still is.

+1 Billion

We need to put that chemistry talk to bed, winning = chemistry. We need to improve the back of our roster and now that we can't add quality guys but we still need to pick up fringe players like Yuniesky Betancourt who have flaws but are still better than what we have in Valdez and Cairo.

BluegrassRedleg
08-08-2012, 06:48 PM
Nobody should have needed this little 4-game bump in the road to realize Walt made a mistake. For the greater part of the season, this lineup has failed to consistently produce runs. The team has been saved by the best pitching any of us has seen in 40 years.

I just hope his gaffe doesn't wind up costing the Reds a spot in the playoffs. I think we can still get in, but I have zero confidence at all that this team can manufacture runs against playoff pitching.

The Rage
08-08-2012, 07:41 PM
Sorry, but this team was going to cool off and not catch the breaks all the time. Something people need to accept. My guess when things start dropping their way again, the "team chemistry" arguement will be back. The fact JV will be back will probably enhance it.

Maker_84
08-08-2012, 08:11 PM
Ever since the team started playing against pitching that's had a pulse they have done nothing. They got fortunate during their winning streak that they played some awful teams. Even in the 2 wins against the Pirates the offense didn't do much of anything, coincidence or not that Stubbs plays well when his job is on the line and when it's not he goes back to being his old self?

jback76
08-08-2012, 09:59 PM
Yes they should have done something. But my biggest gripe is with Bruce the Reds playing short handed without Votto and Phillips for a few days have needed Jay Bruce to step it up. He gets a big FAIL grade for what he's been doing for the club. I've been waiting since May of 2011 for him to get hot again.

BluegrassRedleg
08-08-2012, 10:11 PM
Yes they should have done something. But my biggest gripe is with Bruce the Reds playing short handed without Votto and Phillips for a few days have needed Jay Bruce to step it up. He gets a big FAIL grade for what he's been doing for the club. I've been waiting since May of 2011 for him to get hot again.

But if you're Walt, why in the world would you hang your hopes on guys like Jay Bruce and Drew Stubbs. We all KNOW what they are. They've proven it repeatedly.

jback76
08-08-2012, 10:29 PM
But if you're Walt, why in the world would you hang your hopes on guys like Jay Bruce and Drew Stubbs. We all KNOW what they are. They've proven it repeatedly.

I don't know, maybe TEAM CHEMISTRY. If this team ends up not winning the division that'll be a classic right up with Dusty's clogging up the bases.:D

BluegrassRedleg
08-08-2012, 10:48 PM
I don't know, maybe TEAM CHEMISTRY. If this team ends up not winning the division that'll be a classic right up with Dusty's clogging up the bases.:D

Chemistry has never won anything... except science fairs. ;)

Wonderful Monds
08-10-2012, 02:46 AM
The losing streak is getting unbearable.

R_Webb18
08-10-2012, 03:27 AM
ive never understood why people bought into stubbs hot streak. i also never bought into the chemistry part. yea it helps but lets be real winning helps.

mivers176
08-10-2012, 09:21 AM
I'm in agreement here - something should have been done, we needed to get a bat for sure. The win streak came at the wrong time, like everyone said, covering up the holes.

Is Jay Bruce becoming a poor man's Adam Dunn? before long his average will be down around where the Dunner is this year (around .210) but Dunn has 31 hr and 75 rbi!;)

fielder's choice
08-10-2012, 12:37 PM
The Big Red Machine had terrible chemistry.

Larkin88
08-10-2012, 12:49 PM
I could be totally wrong here, but I just truly don't think the impact offensive move was there to be had at the deadline, try as Walt and the Reds might have.

Personally, the lineup changes that day and seemingly very advanced rumors in regards to Denard Span coming to Cincinnati were enough coincidence to signify that the Reds probably were aggressively seeking to upgrade a big sore spot and likely almost got it done with the Twins.

You all might disagree with me, but even expecting the Reds to regress from the level they were hitting at around the break, I'm not sure a Victorino or Pierre really would have been enough to make us much more formidable.

Two years ago, if you asked me what the Reds priorities were, I would have said shoring up the top of the pitching rotation and doing whatever they could to keep Joey around. In my estimation, both of those were things that should have taken precedent over finding another bat so I was happy to see those areas addressed as they were.

I agree that either finding a true leadoff/CF option and/or a true cleanup hitter are likely those priorities at this point. I just feel like the chances of a move like that happening are always a little better in the off-season. The fact that there were few to no true blockbusters on the offensive front by any team seemed to reinforce that to me. (other than the Dodgers who, unlike the Reds, were in position to add tens of million in payroll)

You always hate to feel ill-equipped to keep up with/separate from the pack in a penant race as the Reds currently are struggling with. But the type of move (or moves) that make a team with a mediocre offense all of a sudden rectified aren't exactly low hanging fruit and take two teams to tango.

40YrRedsFan
08-11-2012, 05:14 PM
With the news of Votto's setback and an additional 7-10 days being out, this really magnifies the problem of our very inconsistent offense. We are trying to win this year, and even if we had to give up top prospects like Corcino and/or Cingrani, Walt should have brought in some offense. Next year or after is an unknown. Right now we are on the threshold of the playoffs, and need offense to get us deep into the playoffs. With no improvement, I see a repeat of the 2010 playoffs, if we even make it. When we can't beat Randy Wolf or Chris Volstad, we are definitely in trouble.

dwyerbrg
08-11-2012, 06:01 PM
There's no doubt it would have been nice to add someone, but it is like buying a car. If you have to have a car, you're getting taken to the cleaners. If you just want to get a new car, you can afford to wait until the price is right.

With the Reds being in first, Walt likely had a price he was willing to pay for each player and didn't feel like he had to make a move. So he didn't. He was hoping one of the other teams would blink and when they didn't, he was happy with his first place team.

DocRed
08-11-2012, 08:50 PM
You think?

Maker_84
08-11-2012, 09:21 PM
if the Reds can just tread water until Vottos return ill be ok with that, but that doesnt take away that they should have gone after a leadoff hitter

jmac
08-11-2012, 09:50 PM
I stated in the gamethread that with Ludwick really going like he is, when Votto gets back, having BP as your 1 and Votto/Ludwick as 3/4 may solve alot of this teams offensive problems.

Now if Votto comes back and Dusty continues with Cozart/Stubbs at the top then......

Jefferson24
08-12-2012, 02:51 AM
I'm not sure. Considering what we gave up for Broxton I'm not convinced that to upgrade any other position would not have been completely out of the question.

I wish we could have pulled something off but it may have come at too steep a price. Walt is not thinking for only 2012, he realizes we have a nice sized window of opportunity hear.

Soto's ghost
08-12-2012, 10:49 AM
I can understand not overpaying for lead off and clean up. What I don't get is why Cairo is still on the bench, and no attempt was made to upgrade the bench. Xavier Paul has been good, but I'd like to see one more LH bat.