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View Full Version : Cincinnati Reds Setback for Votto, out 7-10 extra days



Jefferson24
08-11-2012, 03:17 PM
According to http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/

Joey Votto (left knee) returned to Cincinnati and had a minor procedure last night to remove a piece of floating cartilage, Reds trainer Paul Lessard said.

It will add 7-to-10 days to Votto’s recovery time. The original projection was 3-to-4 weeks from the date of Votto’s surgery July 17, for a torn medial meniscus.

The procedure Friday night, by Reds medical director Dr. Tim Kremchek, took about six minutes.

joshua
08-11-2012, 03:21 PM
Sigh...

I'd rather have Dr. Seuss as medical director at this point.

Stray
08-11-2012, 03:23 PM
That's a minor setback, as long as he's healthy for crunch time I'll be happy.

Tuff Nut
08-11-2012, 03:34 PM
No need to rush him. I was figuring on the 20th, so I'm good with a few extra days.

redsfanmia
08-11-2012, 03:40 PM
How can the Reds continue to have Clownchek as their team doctor? It seems an injury/ recuperation rarely goes as planned.

Phoenix2
08-11-2012, 03:54 PM
This is certainly disappointing, although not completely unexpected. I sure hope I get to see him when the Reds are in Phoenix. Shame Bruce is in a deep freeze, sure home Ludwick and Frazier stay hot. Please Dusty...don't sit Ludwick.

WDE
08-11-2012, 04:33 PM
I hate this, but at the same time, we have a pretty easy schedule until then. Cubs, Mets, Cubs. However, if he gets another setback, he will likely miss the Phillies and Cards series, and I would hate that.

Oh, and there's no need to blame the medical staff.

HometownHero
08-11-2012, 04:36 PM
Need to go our and grab a Lyle Overbay type as insurance. Cairo having 9 starts at first is 9 too many.

AintlifeGrande
08-11-2012, 04:38 PM
Seems there are always issue's popping up with ''Doc Hollywood''.Dear Reds F.O.,there are other physician's for hire.

Maker_84
08-11-2012, 04:43 PM
Reds medical staff is a failure. People need to stop trying to count on Bruce as well because he is what he is at this point

jback76
08-11-2012, 04:45 PM
So somewhere between the 21st and the 24th. Heaven help us!

Billy Hamilton's Legs
08-11-2012, 04:56 PM
mommy make it stop!!!

malcontent
08-11-2012, 06:16 PM
This sure sounds similar to what happened to Trent Richardson.

Meniscus tear....followed by an operation to repair the tear....and then not long after the operation an MRI detects a "loose" piece of cartilage.

Has the Curse of the Factory of Sadness infected the Reds via Browns fans that are also Reds fans?

:confused:

AintlifeGrande
08-11-2012, 06:21 PM
This sure sounds similar to what happened to Trent Richardson.

Meniscus tear....followed by an operation to repair the tear....and then not long after the operation an MRI detects a "loose" piece of cartilage.

Has the Curse of the Factory of Sadness infected the Reds via Browns fans that are also Reds fans?

:confused:

It will take a mack truck to stop Trent from getting on the playing field.

jback76
08-11-2012, 06:29 PM
I hate this, but at the same time, we have a pretty easy schedule until then. Cubs, Mets, Cubs. However, if he gets another setback, he will likely miss the Phillies and Cards series, and I would hate that.

Oh, and there's no need to blame the medical staff.

The way this team hits combined with them knowing Votto is out for a couple more weeks. Nothing is going to be an easy schedule.

malcontent
08-11-2012, 06:30 PM
It will take a mack truck to stop Trent from getting on the playing field.
I hope so. When he does I hope he's 100%, or near it.

Andrews did Richardson's initial surgery. I can't figure out what's going on.

arkimadee
08-11-2012, 06:33 PM
I'm convinced that Doc Holliday ruined Ken Griffey Junior

Ironman92
08-11-2012, 06:46 PM
I'm convinced that Doc Holliday ruined Ken Griffey Junior

Or steroids

DocRed
08-11-2012, 06:51 PM
Wow Kremcheck strikes again :X

PumpFak3First
08-11-2012, 08:23 PM
Or steroids

Griffey did not take steroids, don't you ever say that ****! Out of line!

smixsell
08-11-2012, 10:59 PM
............ Cairo having 9 starts at first is 9 too many.
Spot on

Ironman92
08-11-2012, 11:22 PM
Griffey did not take steroids, don't you ever say that ****! Out of line!

Why

kfm
08-11-2012, 11:43 PM
The report is that Votto hurt himself sliding after the surgery. If you remember Dusty indicated that Votto was sore after sliding. The report is from Tom Groeschen from the enquirer.

malcontent
08-12-2012, 12:37 AM
The report is that Votto hurt himself sliding after the surgery. If you remember Dusty indicated that Votto was sore after sliding.

The report is from Tom Groeschen from the enquirer.

Votto re-injured the knee practicing slides last Wednesday, as part of his rehab while he was with the Reds in Milwaukee.

“One thing about Joey, he knows his body,” Reds manager Dusty Baker said. “He’s not going to say something’s wrong just to say it. He’s really busted it to get back. As I said, the toughest part of the rehab is the sliding part. He was practicing sliding the other day as the final thing to try to get back, and he said afterwards it was sore.

One question: why the hell did he have to do sliding drills 3 weeks after the surgery to repair a meniscus that he tore while sliding?

malcontent
08-12-2012, 01:02 AM
He's the $251.5 million dollar man, and the best they can do is have him doing sliding drills after having knee surgery?

Did he freaking forget how to slide?

:bang:

Jefferson24
08-12-2012, 01:03 AM
Votto re-injured the knee practicing slides last Wednesday, as part of his rehab while he was with the Reds in Milwaukee.

“One thing about Joey, he knows his body,” Reds manager Dusty Baker said. “He’s not going to say something’s wrong just to say it. He’s really busted it to get back. As I said, the toughest part of the rehab is the sliding part. He was practicing sliding the other day as the final thing to try to get back, and he said afterwards it was sore.

One question: why the hell did he have to do sliding drills 3 weeks after the surgery to repair a meniscus that he tore while sliding?

with Rolen out it means either Cario or Valdez is in the line up. I would rather have Votto who can not slide than either of those two.

Just tell Votto for the next two weeks you don't slide. If you are out so be it. Chances are the replacements would have been out more often.

malcontent
08-12-2012, 01:05 AM
with Rolen out it means either Cario or Valdez is in the line up. I would rather have Votto who can not slide then either of those two.

Just tell Votto for the next two weeks you don't slide. If you are out so be it. Chances are the replacements would have been out more often.
Exactly. He didn't need to come back and try to be the next Billy Hamilton.

The idiocy of having him do sliding drills is simply startling.

Mutaman
08-12-2012, 01:24 AM
Exactly. He didn't need to come back and try to be the next Billy Hamilton.

The idiocy of having him do sliding drills is simply startling.

I feel like I want to disagree but I can't. Can someone who knows more about this than me explain why he is doing sliding drills.

Jefferson24
08-12-2012, 01:36 AM
I feel like I want to disagree but I can't. Can someone who knows more about this than me explain why he is doing sliding drills.

Mutaman, we are on the same page welcome aboard!

An 80% Votto is far superior to what our bench has to offer. Many a player have came back at less than 100% and played within their limitations and contributed and helped their clubs win.

I am completely thrilled that the Reds have done so well in his absence, however, every win counts. If you give up a win today it counts no less than a loss on September 30th or October 3rd.

As starved for offense as this team seems to be, he should have been in there sooner than later, even if it was in a limited capacity.

Stray
08-12-2012, 02:48 AM
We're playing good baseball without him and we have a nice little lead in the division. If he can't slide then he shouldn't come off of the DL, we're not that desperate. I do agree having him doing sliding drills is questionable, but I have no idea how rehabs usually work. At some point he's going to have to show them he can do everything if he wants to come off of the DL.

It's just a minor setback, he should take his time and come back when he's able to slide, dive, run full speed, and whatever else. He's too important to rush.

Jr's Boy
08-12-2012, 02:52 AM
I hope so. When he does I hope he's 100%, or near it.

Andrews did Richardson's initial surgery. I can't figure out what's going on.

He wasn't 100% at Alabama his last season,but still ran his butt off.Trent will be fine.

Jr's Boy
08-12-2012, 02:53 AM
Dr Andrews should be on the Reds payroll.

jback76
08-12-2012, 08:50 PM
I hope I'm wrong but I could see this knee injury dragging on the rest of the season for Votto.

P.E.R#14
08-13-2012, 02:32 PM
Exactly. He didn't need to come back and try to be the next Billy Hamilton.

The idiocy of having him do sliding drills is simply startling.

I absolutely could not disagree more. You need to be 100% healthy to return. This should include practicing every aspect of the game; advanced leads, sliding, running, running the bases, swinging etc.

Telling a baseball player to "not slide" is a terrible idea. Sliding allows you to run full speed into a base. Trying to not slide requires you slowing down 3/4 of the way to the bag or putting added stress to your knees if you try to stop on a dime. If Votto can't slide he doesn't play, plain and simple. Trying to do anything on a ball field less than 100% results in higher chances for additional injury.

I (now) would like to see him return Aug. 24th. First game back would be the first game of a three game weekend series against the Cards. GABP would be ROCKING!


Go Reds!

MrRedLegger
08-13-2012, 03:19 PM
So Kremchek is a bad doctor by finding the cartilage and removing it? So people are saying Joey would be better off had it gone overlooked or unnoticed?

Gee, I'm sure glad they found the piece of cartilage so that this doesn't end Votto's career.

Sounds like the work of a bad doctor to me. No rhyme this time because this is absurd.

Helms1
08-13-2012, 04:48 PM
Think of it this way. If the original procedure had been done perfectly, there MAY have been no cartilage to become loose and require a second procedure, or the fragment was there and missed at the first procedure, OR the rehab caused a new tear with a fragment. The last seems unlikely with a 6 minute second procedure. In a prefect world the original surgery could have yielded a repaired tear, smooth cartilage and a happy MVP candidate playing this week. Things don't always go perfect, but if I were Votto I would be talking to the surgeon.

texasdave
08-13-2012, 04:52 PM
So Kremchek is a bad doctor by finding the cartilage and removing it? So people are saying Joey would be better off had it gone overlooked or unnoticed?

Gee, I'm sure glad they found the piece of cartilage so that this doesn't end Votto's career.

Sounds like the work of a bad doctor to me. No rhyme this time because this is absurd.

Hard to find the meter and the rhyming pattern on this post. :laugh:

malcontent
08-13-2012, 05:03 PM
I absolutely could not disagree more. You need to be 100% healthy to return. This should include practicing every aspect of the game; advanced leads, sliding, running, running the bases, swinging etc.

Telling a baseball player to "not slide" is a terrible idea. Sliding allows you to run full speed into a base. Trying to not slide requires you slowing down 3/4 of the way to the bag or putting added stress to your knees if you try to stop on a dime. If Votto can't slide he doesn't play, plain and simple. Trying to do anything on a ball field less than 100% results in higher chances for additional injury.
It just seems to me that it's too much stress to put on the knee only 3 weeks post-surgery.

I think 3 weeks is (was) just too soon, too aggressive, if he's going to have to put that kind of stress on it.

Larkin88
08-13-2012, 05:45 PM
It just seems to me that it's too much stress to put on the knee only 3 weeks post-surgery.

I think 3 weeks is (was) just too soon, too aggressive, if he's going to have to put that kind of stress on it.

I don't disagree that three weeks was perhaps an overly optimistic return window, but also very much disagree with the notion of letting Joey play under some "can't slide" stipulation.

Sliding is second nature for guys who have played the game this long and are trying to beat out a throw. You don't want to create some mental block about what he can and can't do while he plays, because there are good chances that he could reinjure himself trying to overcompensate.

I agree that 80% of Votto is better than 100% of whoever in a vacuum, and that's a large reason why I similarly never wanted Phillips to be DL'ed with his calf recently (despite the suggestion from others no longer on the board). But I think you need to take the nature of the injury into consideration in these tradeoffs.

There isn't much Phillips could have done to further damage what was soft tissue damage to his calf. He could give full effort and play the game as he knows it (without limiting key facets of base running like sliding) even if it only netted about 80% of what you could normally expect in return from BP at his best.

Recovering from a knee surgery to repair structural damage to a ligament - even a minor one in the grand scheme of things - presents all sorts of opportunity to reaggravate things (as we've seen). It's the difference between doing things at 100% effort and getting 80% return versus being able to give 100% effort from the get go.

I agree with P.E.R. If Votto can't do the things baseball players need to do - even if the physical return wasn't what you would normally expect - then you don't play him. I don' think you can create arbitrary circumstances of what a guy is or is not allowed to do in baseball. At least not guys at Joey's level with so many obvious team implications going forward.

But for what it's worth, there is plenty of precedent for guys being able to come back from injuries like this in 3-4 weeks without complications. We were not so fortunate... don't know why if there is any reason at all. I just don't fault the team for trying to get the sliding drills down, as those are typically the last thing a recovering player will do. Ironic that it was a slide that caused this damage in the onset.

malcontent
08-26-2012, 07:47 PM
But won't he have forgotten how to slide?

It was decided this time that Votto would not do any sliding drills before resuming playing. Otherwise, there is nothing else he has to do to get himself ready for Tuesday.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120826&content_id=37370380&notebook_id=37370384&vkey=notebook_cin&c_id=cin