Scoreboard Watching 2012--Part Two

[traderumor]

And the Padres aren't "horrible," at least not at home. They're just a touch under .500 there, and that offense is legit. This won't be an easy series for the Pirates, especially after today's marathon.
That's also the same Padres team that took 2 of 3 in Pittsburgh. The Pads can't pitch, but at Petco, it levels the playing field some for them even on that end.

[Sea Ray]

That's also the same Padres team that took 2 of 3 in Pittsburgh. The Pads can't pitch, but at Petco, it levels the playing field some for them even on that end.

The Pads are not mailing it in at this point ala the 'Stros or the Cubs. They're above .500 since the All Star break and 18-14 not counting our Reds beating them 3 out of 4.

[traderumor]

I'm not implying any such thing. But I do think there has been a tendency to underestimate the Pirates. They are certainly in better position than I expected. And even if the Pirates are flawed, their competition in September is so weak they may roll over it anyway. For example, the Astros and Cubs are among the weakest NL teams I've seen in awhile, it's too bad the Pirates play them so many times.

On the other hand, the Pirates do play many games on the road. That's not the Bucs' strong suit, so maybe things will even out.

Right now, the main concern for Reds fans has to be the Reds' own tough schedule over the next ten games. I'm hopeful the Reds still lead by 4 or 5 games - or more - after the DBacks series next week. And I'm also hopeful Votto will be back around then.I think its more of a questionable conclusion on the "cupcake" schedule that is the underlying premise of "underestimating" the Pirates. First, this isn't the NFL. Also, there's a lot of games against winning teams in there, and Milwaukee is going to be dangerous since they are reconfiguring their bullpen with some short term success. Finally, if a team isn't playing well, they'll struggle even against bad teams. And I'd argue that Pittsburgh has started to show signs that they are going to struggle against any opponent. LA just recently bludgeoned them. Those aren't good trends they're showing.

[vaticanplum]

Pardon me for asking but I'm not sure I follow the English here...are you saying you expect the Reds to have a historic collapse, or the Pirates? (I'm thinking Pirates)

The Reds. And I don't actually *expect* that. I just won't rest easy until things are certain.

I'm much more wary of a Reds collapse, though, than another team overtaking them in the division, if that makes sense. As others have pointed out re: the clip that the other two would need to play in order to overtake them, the Reds control their own destiny as long as they don't fall apart. If the Reds play solidly, it doesn't matter what the Bucs or Cards do unless they manage a truly historic run.

[Kc61]

I think its more of a questionable conclusion on the "cupcake" schedule that is the underlying premise of "underestimating" the Pirates. First, this isn't the NFL. Also, there's a lot of games against winning teams in there, and Milwaukee is going to be dangerous since they are reconfiguring their bullpen with some short term success. Finally, if a team isn't playing well, they'll struggle even against bad teams. And I'd argue that Pittsburgh has started to show signs that they are going to struggle against any opponent. LA just recently bludgeoned them. Those aren't good trends they're showing.

I've got to disagree, respectfully. I don't think the Pirates could reasonably have an easier schedule.

13 games with the woeful Astros and Cubs.

9 with the Brewers, 6 of them at Pittsburgh. Brewers are good at home, but 19-38 on the road.

4 at Citifield late September. Mets will be loaded with minor leaguers by then, Santana probably being shut down, Mets below .500 at home.

Hopefully Pirates will continue to show wear and tear, but that's 23 relatively easy games (excluding the Brewers in Milwaukee). And I don't include the Bucs games with the Padres, who are 53-70 overall, although better at home.

Only .500 or better teams Pirates play are the Reds and Cards, head on head, and the final series with Atlanta.

Hope you are right that it doesn't matter and Pirates are fading. Thankfully many of these are road games for the Bucs. Obviously we won't know the impact until the scores are in.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

My concern is it what is it going to take in the final 34 games to make the final two series of the year (@ PIT, @ STL) meaningless?

Even if those games are meaningless from a division championship standpoint, you gotta think they'll be extremely important in the race with the Nats, Dodgers and Giants for the best record in the NL. After tanking the last week in 2010 and assuring the worst possible NLDS matchup, I hope the Reds are significantly more aggressive post-clinch to go for the home field throughout. A Game 7 in Washington doesn't sound like much fun. A Game 7 in San Francisco sounds exponentially worse.

[kaldaniels]

I'm not going to lose sleep if the Reds don't get home field. I believe if they are the #1 seed they will be coming off a 2 week road trip for game 3 of the divisional series at GABP. (The #1 seed starts off on the road this season) The oddness of that has me hesitant.

[redsfaninbsg]

I'm not going to lose sleep if the Reds don't get home field. I believe if they are the #1 seed they will be coming off a 2 week road trip for game 3 of the divisional series at GABP. (The #1 seed starts off on the road this season) The oddness of that has me hesitant.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, don't all of the higher seeds start the first round on the road?

[kaldaniels]

Correct me if I'm wrong but, don't all of the higher seeds start the first round on the road?

Ugh. Yes that is correct.

[WildcatFan]

Even if those games are meaningless from a division championship standpoint, you gotta think they'll be extremely important in the race with the Nats, Dodgers and Giants for the best record in the NL. After tanking the last week in 2010 and assuring the worst possible NLDS matchup, I hope the Reds are significantly more aggressive post-clinch to go for the home field throughout. A Game 7 in Washington doesn't sound like much fun. A Game 7 in San Francisco sounds exponentially worse.

It's probably about time to start posting those scores here, too, for that reason. The best record is going to be hugely important to avoid another team's #1 in the first game of the DS.

[Chip R]

I'm not going to lose sleep if the Reds don't get home field. I believe if they are the #1 seed they will be coming off a 2 week road trip for game 3 of the divisional series at GABP. (The #1 seed starts off on the road this season) The oddness of that has me hesitant.

It may not be that attractive to be the #1 seed. You are going to have to wait a couple days to find out where you play. Whereas #2 knows they will play at #3.

[OldXOhio]

Even if those games are meaningless from a division championship standpoint, you gotta think they'll be extremely important in the race with the Nats, Dodgers and Giants for the best record in the NL. After tanking the last week in 2010 and assuring the worst possible NLDS matchup, I hope the Reds are significantly more aggressive post-clinch to go for the home field throughout. A Game 7 in Washington doesn't sound like much fun. A Game 7 in San Francisco sounds exponentially worse.

No doubt, but I wasn't trying to minimize the importance of the entire 162 game schedule. Perhaps meaningless should have accompanied the words "in the race for the NL Central".

[OldXOhio]

That's also the same Padres team that took 2 of 3 in Pittsburgh. The Pads can't pitch, but at Petco, it levels the playing field some for them even on that end.

I hope the Pirates are taking the Pads as lightly as some on this board. I want no part of them the rest of the way. Teams in a talent rich youth movement that have begun to buy in are dangerous this time of year.

[reds44]

It may not be that attractive to be the #1 seed. You are going to have to wait a couple days to find out where you play. Whereas #2 knows they will play at #3.
Not neccesarily true. What if the winner of the wild card and the winner of the 1 seed are both in the same division?

[Homer Bailey]

Not neccesarily true. What if the winner of the wild card and the winner of the 1 seed are both in the same division?

That rule is gone now.

[reds44]

That rule is gone now.
Well, nevermind then lol

[Wonderful Monds]

Pads up 2-0 on the Pirates

[Kc61]

Volquez and Padres lead the Pirates 2-0 in the second inning of the Monday night post-marathon ballgame.

Pirates out in the second, four Ks for Volquez.

[Kc61]

Another run for Padres. Still men on, two out, second inning.

3-0 over Pads, now after two innings.

[WVRedsFan]

Another run for Padres. Still men on, two out, second inning.

3-0 over Pads, now after two innings.

Still 3-0 at the end of four. EV has allowed 2 hits and 2 walks, but, as usual has thrown 62 pitches in four innings.

[Kc61]

3-1 Padres, top 7, two outs, two on, McCutchen coming up, Volquez with ten Ks and 100 pitches departs, Brad Brach coming in. Hope he's good.

Dick Enberg doing the play by play, excellent.

Brach falls behind 2-0. Dangerous situation.

Brach goes full on McCutchen. Strikes him out. Nice.

[WVRedsFan]

Through 6.5, Padres lead 3-1. Volquez once again wasn't pitch efficient and had to go at 100 pitches in the 7th. Now it's up to the SD bullpen, and that's not neccessarily a good thing.

[Tom Servo]

Now it's up to the SD bullpen, and that's not neccessarily a good thing.
I think it is. 10th best bullpen in the majors, and spacious Petco to work with.

[WVRedsFan]

SD beats the Pirates. Reds keep their 6.5 game lead. As usual, EV was struggling, but in that park he is good. Now, let's beat the Phillies.

[Tony Cloninger]

Ugh. Yes that is correct.

Can someone explain that one to me?

It's like 1972 when Miami, undefeated...had to go into Pittsburgh for the AFC Championship game.

[Sea Ray]

Can someone explain that one to me?

It's like 1972 when Miami, undefeated...had to go into Pittsburgh for the AFC Championship game.

In a 2 then 3 five game series, the supposed advantage is with the team that has the last three games. This is the way the playoofs were first set up and the 1975 Reds were the first National League team to beat this "jinx" or whatever you want to call it. In my own opinion, it's only an advantage if you can manage to win one of those first two games. If you go home in a 2-0 hole then it's not an advantage

[WildcatFan]

In a 2 then 3 five game series, the supposed advantage is with the team that has the last three games. This is the way the playoofs were first set up and the 1975 Reds were the first National League team to beat this "jinx" or whatever you want to call it. In my own opinion, it's only an advantage if you can manage to win one of those first two games. If you go home in a 2-0 hole then it's not an advantage

That's how I'd describe em too.

Oof.

[Kc61]

Cards destroying Astros, score doesn't matter.

2-1 Pads over Bucs in the bottom of the third, Padres with first and third, no outs.

Now bases loaded one out on a Grandal walk.

Yonder Alonso facing Burnett with the bags full.

Yonder hits into a DP, his tenth of the year.

2-1 Pads after three.

[WVRedsFan]

Drat!

[Brutus]

Padres have 'em loaded again in the 5th with two outs. They have had 11 runners on base so far against Burnett, but only a pair of runs to show for it.

[Kc61]

Padres have 'em loaded again in the 5th with two outs. They have had 11 runners on base so far against Burnett, but only a pair of runs to show for it.

Padres don't score. 2-1 thru five.

[Brutus]

Aaaand they leave 'em loaded. On to the 6th, 2-1 dads.

[Brutus]

Solo homer for Garrett Jones. 2-2

[Tom Servo]

It's always Garrett Jones.

[WVRedsFan]

Who is this Garrett Jones?

[WVRedsFan]

Buccos about ready to break it open. Burnett has been all over the place but the Padres keep leaving them on base.

Bucs take the lead. Padres should have been up by 5 or more, but.

After watching Alonso tonight, I now see why he was traded. He's not only blocked by Votto, he's a less talented Sean Casey.

[Brutus]

Padres have 'em loaded (again) in the 6th, this time with no outs.

[Kc61]

Padres have the bases loaded no outs in the bottom of the sixth, trailing the Pirates 3-2 with Burnett still pitching.

[Brutus]

3-3 on a force attempt and an error. Still loaded, nobody out.

[Brutus]

Big strikeout of Headley. Still loaded with one out, 3-3.

[WVRedsFan]

Padres score and tie the game. Headley K's.

[Brutus]

Wow. Carlos Quentin grounds into a double play. The Pirates escaped that with only one run scoring. 3-3 after 6, as the Pads have had 14 baserunners but only three runs.

[WVRedsFan]

Padres are a double play machine. Why didn't they do that when we payed them?

[Kc61]

Bottom 7, 3-3.

Pads should have 8 runs already. Ridiculous ballgame.

I'm rooting for the Pads to win in 19 innings.

LOL, Pads now with second and third, one out, seventh inning. Baserunner after baserunner. Still 3-3.

Burnett still pitching, Maybin up. Infield in. Burnett 108 pitches. Walk, bases loaded AGAIN for Padres.

Kotsay to hit. Pitching change, Burnett done. Watson the lefty coming in.

Denorfia replaces Kotsay. Sacrifice fly. Pads lead by one. Runner to third on close play.

Appeal that Alonso left third too soon on the sac fly. Safe.

Alonso, Denorfia, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, who are all these Padres?

4-3 Padres. Cabrera up. Maybin steals. Second and third.

End of seventh, 4-3 Pads over Pirates. I'm done.

[Tom Servo]

Deno = one of the good ones :)

[WVRedsFan]

Gregorsen pitching. Can't figure why I'm still up. Gotta head for Bristol for race duty tomorrow. But I want the big lead. It's an obsession. Did I mention I hate the Pirates?

[WVRedsFan]

Deno = one of the good ones :)

Deno = Heisey

[WVRedsFan]

Quentin hits a SF and Padres lead 5-3.

[WVRedsFan]

N

[WVRedsFan]

McCutcheon and Walker up in the Top of the ninth.

[WVRedsFan]

Thayer pitching.

[Tom Servo]

Thayer pitching.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5n7axgJev1rvt5wko1_500.jpg


He just needs the mullet to perfect the Rod Beck look.

[Brutus]

It's worth noting that while having still a great season, the mighty 'cutch' has seen his OPS dip below 1.000.

[WVRedsFan]

Amirista gets the line drive. One out.
McCutcheon up. Base hit.
Walker up.
Walker hits into a force out. Two out.
Garrett Jones up
Jones hits Hr. pirates tie.

I'm out.

[Tom Servo]

Garrett


Jones

[Brutus]

Ugh. Of course, Garrett Jones again.

[757690]

I'm assuming Garrett Jones has the same middle name as Bucky Dent.

[The Operator]

The Reds better win these next two against the Phillies because lord knows we can't depend on Houston or SD to help us out. Luckily, to this point - we're doing just fine taking care of our own business. :thumbup:

[Brutus]

The Reds better win these next two against the Phillies because lord knows we can't depend on Houston or SD to help us out. Luckily, to this point - we're doing just fine taking care of our own business. :thumbup:

San Diego has won 3 of 4 against Pitt the 10 days, to their credit.

[The Operator]

San Diego has won 3 of 4 against Pitt the last week, to their credit.Take your facts and get out of here! :p

But yea, I just like it when The Reds take care of their own business so that we don't have to worry (as much) over what The Pirates and/or Cardinals are doing. Although any time someone beats SD or StL that's perfectly awesome. :)

[Brutus]

Take your facts and get out of here! :p

But yea, I just like it when The Reds take care of their own business so that we don't have to worry (as much) over what The Pirates and/or Cardinals are doing. Although any time someone beats SD or StL that's perfectly awesome. :)

Indeed.

Padres are threatening in the bottom of the 9th. Back-to-back singles, and to second on the throw. Second & Third, two outs.

[Brutus]

Everth Cabrera can't get the job done... fly out to center. On to the 10th.

[The Operator]

Hey I'll take another super long extra inning game for The Pirates. And if SD wins even better! Their bullpen's gotta be running on fumes by now, or close to it.

[Brutus]

Hey I'll take another super long extra inning game for The Pirates. And if SD wins even better! Their bullpen's gotta be running on fumes by now, or close to it.

That has got to be the best explanation for why they let A.J. Burnett continue to pitch after allowing 17 baserunners in just over 6 innings!

[Nasty_Boy]

The catch McCutchen just made to save the Pirates was as good as it gets. Cabrera smoked a ball to RCF and McCutchen tracked it down while crashing into the wall. He's a damn good player!

[Nasty_Boy]

Leadoff walk for Venable in the 10th... Daniel McCutchen pitching for Pitt

[Brutus]

DADS WIN!

[Nasty_Boy]

Headley!!!

[Brutus]

Chase Headley renews his role as Pirates-killer with a walk-off, 2-run blast

[Tom Servo]

Headley is good.

[Nasty_Boy]

And to think, I about jumped outta bed when Venable stole on the 2-0 pitch. Wow! Nice to pick up another game!

[Brutus]

The Pirates should have walked Headley after Venable stole second.

[Nasty_Boy]

I couldn't believe he was running with McCutchen struggling to fin the zone and Headley at the plate.

[mth123]

The Cards and Pirates now even in the loss column. The Reds magic numbwr for both teams now sits at the same 32. I'm guessing that this week-end's series with the Cards will be against the 2nd place team.

[cincrazy]

The Pirates losing was big. Now, the absolute worst the Reds can do at the conclusion of this Philly series is losing a half game to the Pirates. Win one of the last two vs. the Phillies, and we're assured of gaining ground on the Pirates.

[Brutus]

San Diego is up 3-0 on the Pirates in the 2nd inning.

[Tom Servo]

San Diego is up 3-0 on the Pirates in the 2nd inning.
And Pittsburgh had 1st and 3rd and GIDP. :)

[Gizmo]

I'm actually rooting for the Pirates a little right now. I'd hate for the Cards to sneak into the wild card yet again. Keep them both 7 games or more back, but with the Pirates closer.

[fearofpopvol1]

Pirates lost their game. Cardinals are winning 3-2 in the 6th.

[kaldaniels]

I'm actually rooting for the Pirates a little right now. I'd hate for the Cards to sneak into the wild card yet again. Keep them both 7 games or more back, but with the Pirates closer.

I'm gonna wait till the end of this weekend series before I decide that. Ideally, the Reds defeat STL in the playoffs to make it that much more satisfying. Cincy has been respectable vs the Cards this year.

[Kc61]

I'm gonna wait till the end of this weekend series before I decide that. Ideally, the Reds defeat STL in the playoffs to make it that much more satisfying. Cincy has been respectable vs the Cards this year.

Starting this weekend the Cards play the Reds, Pirates, and Nationals. All games are away for the Cards.

Let's see where the Cards are after that stretch.

[Brutus]

The Yankees lost tonight 2-1 to the White Sox. They're now only 3 games ahead of the Rays.

[klw]

Cards win. Move ahead of Pitt, 8 out.

[Matt700wlw]

3 game set coming up this weekend!

[MikeThierry]

3 game set coming up this weekend!

As much as I'm hoping the Cardinals to win the series, they're probably going to do their usual 1 step forward, 2 steps back routine I've witnessed all season long.

[WildcatFan]

Cincinnati has a chance to move within 1 game of Washington, who's off today, in the NL standings. Here's hoping Philly comes off the Reds series mad and pounds the Nats.

[Kc61]

Day game. Astros-Cards. Thursday. One team has 3, the other zero, second inning.

Guess?

Wrong.

Astros 3-0 in the second, Cards with two errors. Dallas Keuchel serving them up for the Stros, also has a sac fly. Westbrook for Cards.

[OnBaseMachine]

Altuve sac fly makes it 4-0 Astros in the top of the 4th inning in St. Louis.

[Chip R]

Altuve sac fly makes it 4-0 Astros in the top of the 4th inning in St. Louis.

Cards got em right where they want em.

[Brutus]

Cards got em right where they want em.

The Cubs and Astros are so vulnerable when ahead by several runs.

[Chip R]

The Cubs and Astros are so vulnerable when ahead by several runs.

False sense of security and all that.

[UKFlounder]

And not being used to being in that position...



False sense of security and all that.

[Kc61]

Cards announcers keep saying the Cards will get to this pitcher as the innings go by.

And they are correct.

David Freese, homer, 4-3 game.

[OnBaseMachine]

First two batters retired in the bottom of the 4th, followed by a walk, double, 3-run HR. 4-3 now. Astros will lose.

[MikeThierry]

Cards announcers keep saying the Cards will get to this pitcher as the innings go by.

And they are correct.

David Freese, homer, 4-3 game.

You listen to them? I don't think people in St. Louis can stand Hraboski and Ricky Horton. I know I always have to mute the TV and put on Shannon.

[Kc61]

You listen to them? I don't think people in St. Louis can stand Hraboski and Ricky Horton. I know I always have to mute the TV and put on Shannon.

I'm watching on national sources like MLB.TV and Extra Innings. So I hear all kinds of different broadcasters depending on the game.

In the Central this year, the Pirates TV announcers have been rooting a great deal. The others have been fine as far as I can see, including the Cards guys.



Astros now lead 5-3 in the fifth on a sac fly.

Go Stros. Sorry, Mike. Stros still hitting in the fifth with one on, two outs.

[Homer Bailey]

My only rooting interest going forward is against the Cardinals to make the playoffs. I think they are still a team to be reckoned with, and it just seems sooooo Cardinals to make that 2nd wild card spot that shouldn't be there, then go on an amazingly lucky run to win its 3rd fluky title in 6 years.

[OesterPoster]

Ugh. Bases loaded, nobody out for StL.

[Homer Bailey]

You guys will drive yourselves crazy following a Houston@STL game if you have any expectation or hope of the Astros winning.

[MikeThierry]

I'm watching on national sources like MLB.TV and Extra Innings. So I hear all kinds of different broadcasters depending on the game.

In the Central this year, the Pirates TV announcers have been rooting a great deal. The others have been fine as far as I can see, including the Cards guys.



Astros now lead 5-3 in the fifth on a sac fly.

Go Stros. Sorry, Mike. Stros still hitting in the fifth with one on, two outs.

It's all good. Holliday just made the Stros his daddy, lol.

[CySeymour]

You guys will drive yourselves crazy following a Houston@STL game if you have any expectation or hope of the Astros winning.

Can't you say that about the Astros every game?

[MikeThierry]

My only rooting interest going forward is against the Cardinals to make the playoffs. I think they are still a team to be reckoned with, and it just seems sooooo Cardinals to make that 2nd wild card spot that shouldn't be there, then go on an amazingly lucky run to win its 3rd fluky title in 6 years.

You don't fluke into winning a WS. All teams go through luck. Admittedly, last year was lucky but once they got in the playoffs, their talent took over. In the 2006 season, people forget that was essentially the same team who dominated teams in the 04 and 05 season where they won 100+ games. They were mostly injured that year and didn't get fully healthy until really the playoffs started. The talent was there, just not for the whole season in 2006.

[OldXOhio]

I'm watching on national sources like MLB.TV and Extra Innings. So I hear all kinds of different broadcasters depending on the game.

In the Central this year, the Pirates TV announcers have been rooting a great deal. The others have been fine as far as I can see, including the Cards guys.



Astros now lead 5-3 in the fifth on a sac fly.

Go Stros. Sorry, Mike. Stros still hitting in the fifth with one on, two outs.

I'm with ya on the Pirates announcers, they seem to have a chip on their shoulder bigger than the one Cutch wears while in Cincy. But we differ on Hrabosky. His true colors show through every night IMO. Has a hard time getting past the notion that if they player isn't wearing a Cards uniform, he isn't quite as good as his STL counterpart. If the strategy wasn't hatched inside the STL dugout, it's doomed for failure.

If I were an Astros fan, I'd be particularly PO'd listening to him as I don't think he could be any more condescending.

[Kc61]

Cards scoring runs by the bunches now, I'm done with this game.

Astros are tough to watch.

On the announcers, I haven't studied most of them. Just that the Pirates guys root so hard for the team, it's so blatant, that it's impossible for me to keep the sound on. So one-sided.

I'm sure you are right, Mike, about the Cards guys, I just haven't noticed. They seem ok but I haven't focused much. Small sample.

[PuffyPig]

It's all good. Holliday just made the Stros his daddy, lol.


I think you mean that Holliday is the Astro's daddy. You got it the other way around.

BTW, his bases clearing double doesn't count, small sample size!

[Tom Servo]

Pirates and Cardinals announcers bug me. Even when they're winning, I can't recall any qualms I've had with the Brewers, Astros, or Cubs announcers, though Brenley can sometimes get on my nerves.

[Homer Bailey]

You don't fluke into winning a WS.

Yes, you do. A historic collapse (literally unprecedented), and an insanely bad division are the only reasons the Cardinals made the playoffs in either of those years. Those are facts.

[Scrap Irony]

You don't fluke into winning a WS. All teams go through luck. Admittedly, last year was lucky but once they got in the playoffs, their talent took over. In the 2006 season, people forget that was essentially the same team who dominated teams in the 04 and 05 season where they won 100+ games. They were mostly injured that year and didn't get fully healthy until really the playoffs started. The talent was there, just not for the whole season in 2006.

Disagree. In today's watered down game, you absolutely luck into winning World Series. The best team should go to the World Series from each league. Period.

No divisions.

No wildcard.

One team. Two leagues. One title.

Instead, we get crap like... well, like the Cardinals winning their two titles. Neither was anywhere close to the best team, but got lucky/ hot in late season.

[PuffyPig]

Disagree. In today's watered down game, you absolutely luck into winning World Series. The best team should go to the World Series from each league. Period.

No divisions.

No wildcard.

One team. Two leagues. One title.

Instead, we get crap like... well, like the Cardinals winning their two titles. Neither was anywhere close to the best team, but got lucky/ hot in late season.

In baseball, the difference between the best team and the 8th best team (basically the teams that make the playoffs, now 10), is so close, and considering the general randomness of baseball, the odds are stacked against the best team winning.

Make the playoffs, you gotta chance. More than any sport.

[MikeThierry]

Yes, you do. A historic collapse (literally unprecedented), and an insanely bad division are the only reasons the Cardinals made the playoffs in either of those years. Those are facts.

Even though it's harder to make and win the WS now than it was back in the 60's?

I'm not saying that the Cards weren't lucky getting in the playoffs but beating the best teams in the playoffs is still very hard to do and teams rarely fluke in the playoffs. If you're saying that winning two WS in a span of 5 years is fluky it's either bad grapes or the Cards are the luckiest franchise in the history of organized sports.

[MikeThierry]

I think you mean that Holliday is the Astro's daddy. You got it the other way around.

BTW, his bases clearing double doesn't count, small sample size!

You might be right, but him and Albert Pujols being the only players in baseball to currently have six consecutive seasons of +.900 OPS seasons is a decent enough sample size.

[cincrazy]

Yes, you do. A historic collapse (literally unprecedented), and an insanely bad division are the only reasons the Cardinals made the playoffs in either of those years. Those are facts.

But both of those teams were damn good teams. As Mike said, the 2006 team was incredibly banged up all year. Ok, so maybe it was luck making the postseason. But they had incredibly bad luck with all of the injuries they suffered. Nobody was a better team in October.

And last year, yeah, it took luck to get in. But again, they were a force to be reckoned with. It's not like Villanova roaring through the NCAA tourney in the 80s and knocking off Georgetown in the final by shooting like 98%.

[Chip R]

I think you mean that Holliday is the Astro's daddy. You got it the other way around.

That's a team with a thousand fathers.

[MikeThierry]

But both of those teams were damn good teams. As Mike said, the 2006 team was incredibly banged up all year. Ok, so maybe it was luck making the postseason. But they had incredibly bad luck with all of the injuries they suffered. Nobody was a better team in October.

And last year, yeah, it took luck to get in. But again, they were a force to be reckoned with. It's not like Villanova roaring through the NCAA tourney in the 80s and knocking off Georgetown in the final by shooting like 98%.

I would argue that the 2004 Cardinals were one of the top 5 teams in the history of the game never to win a WS. The Red Sox "fluked" their way into winning that year. rolls eyes.

[Brutus]

It's all good. Holliday just made the Stros his daddy, lol.

I wouldn't be boasting about that. Practically everyone in the league can make that claim.

That's like bragging about bagging a hooker.

[MikeThierry]

I wouldn't be boasting about that. Practically everyone in the league can make that claim.

That's like bragging about bagging a hooker.

What the hooker smokin hot?? LOL

[PuffyPig]

The playoffs in themselves are a small sample size.

The regular season determines who is the best baseball team.

The playoffs show us who gets hot/lucky over a small sample size.

[MikeThierry]

The playoffs in themselves are a small sample size.

The regular season determines who is the best baseball team.

The playoffs show us who gets hot/lucky over a small sample size.

Well if the Reds win the World Series, I'm not going to bash it, call it a fluke, and minimize the importance of it. I have more respect than that even if I'm not a Reds fan.

[Tom Servo]

I give the 2011 St. Louis team credit, but that 2006 team basically sucked. Kudos for winning it, but man, 83 wins in the season...

[MikeThierry]

I give the 2011 St. Louis team credit, but that 2006 team basically sucked. Kudos for winning it, but man, 83 wins in the season...

Again, I urge you to take that 2006 season into context.

[PuffyPig]

Well if the Reds win the World Series, I'm not going to bash it, call it a fluke, and minimize the importance of it. I have more respect than that even if I'm not a Reds fan.


If they win the world series I'd celebrate like I always have.

But doesn't mean they are the best team in baseball. Unless they proved it during the season.

It just means they won the world series.

[Brutus]

Disagree. In today's watered down game, you absolutely luck into winning World Series. The best team should go to the World Series from each league. Period.

No divisions.

No wildcard.

One team. Two leagues. One title.

Instead, we get crap like... well, like the Cardinals winning their two titles. Neither was anywhere close to the best team, but got lucky/ hot in late season.

I like playoffs, but I want the playoffs to be more intuitive about rewarding the regular season.

First and foremost, teams often play as many as nine games in a row without a day off. So there's no reason, television networks' desires notwithstanding, they should have three days off in a 7-game series. If they'd play seven straight days, or perhaps take one day off, it would force teams to use their entire rotation which is more indicative of what the teams did in the regular season.

Second, I'd play all the playoff games at the ballpark of the higher seed. That's the truest way to reward excellence in the regular season and still maintain the excitement of a playoff system.

I like having playoffs, but I do think it's counter-intuitive to have rotations of five guys, then reward playoff production based on the best three-man staff.

[MikeThierry]

Mujica looks like a great pickup by the Cards. I'm shocked at how well he's doing in the middle inning role. Got the Cards out of a jam and now they go into the bottom of the 6th up by 3.

[Tom Servo]

Again, I urge you to take that 2006 season into context.
I see completely mediocre/downright bad pitching outside of Carpenter. Jeff Weaver's playoff run was a fluke, once in a lifetime thing if I've ever seen one.

[cincrazy]

I see completely mediocre/downright bad pitching outside of Carpenter. Jeff Weaver's playoff run was a fluke, once in a lifetime thing if I've ever seen one.

Their bullpen was nails, with Wainwright as the closer, and they were running out Edmonds, Pujols, Rolen, etc. Pretty stacked lol.

[Homer Bailey]

If they win the world series I'd celebrate like I always have.

But doesn't mean they are the best team in baseball. Unless they proved it during the season.

It just means they won the world series.

Exactly.

I tried explaining this thought process to my friends, and it turned into a screaming match. I usually try not to take up this argument anymore, but it's nice to see someone agree with me 100%.

[MikeThierry]

I see completely mediocre/downright bad pitching outside of Carpenter. Jeff Weaver's playoff run was a fluke, once in a lifetime thing if I've ever seen one.

Izzy blew a ton of saves because of injury and Wainwright solidified the closer role. Edmonds was injured for a month and a half that year. Pujols missed time due to injury. The list goes on and on.

[Tom Servo]

Izzy blew a ton of saves because of injury and Wainwright solidified the closer role. Edmonds was injured for a month and a half that year. Pujols missed time due to injury. The list goes on and on.
That doesn't explain why the pitching was so horrific though.

I was still living in NJ in 06 and didn't have Extra Innings, so my only options were to watch the Yankees and Mets that season and I watched almost every Mets game. That Mets team had a tremendous offense, shutdown bullpen, and decent starting pitching. Credit to the Cardinals for beating them in an exciting series, but I still think the Mets were the better team that year.

[PuffyPig]

Exactly.

I tried explaining this thought process to my friends, and it turned into a screaming match. I usually try not to take up this argument anymore, but it's nice to see someone agree with me 100%.


Over the course of a season, the better teams win more often.

But most individual games come down to randomness, you just don't see it.

Look at last nights game. Howards last drive could just as easily have found a gap. Winnington's single would be a hit about 1 time in 100, based on his bat breaking and the ball finding likely the only spot where it would get through. And that's just one half inning.

Baseball is different than any other sport at the major league level.

Starting pitchers don't really flucuate from being "on" or "off" that day. It's really just randomness playing it's part. A pitcher who's really on will miss more bats than usual. Arroyo didn't miss a ton of bats last night. He had great control, but the Phillies were hitting a lot of balls right at people.

[Chip R]

Man, they just ought to give the Astros 3 runs before the game starts as a handicap. Might make the games more interesting.

[PuffyPig]

Mujica looks like a great pickup by the Cards. I'm shocked at how well he's doing in the middle inning role. Got the Cards out of a jam and now they go into the bottom of the 6th up by 3.

He's still not mising many bats. But with Houston you just don't want to give up free walks and HBP, somethnig Westbrook couldn't figure out.

I expect that anticipated bloop and a blast will come this weekend.

[MikeThierry]

That doesn't explain why the pitching was so horrific though.

I was still living in NJ in 06 and didn't have Extra Innings, so my only options were to watch the Yankees and Mets that season and I watched almost every Mets game. That Mets team had a tremendous offense, shutdown bullpen, and decent starting pitching. Credit to the Cardinals for beating them in an exciting series, but I still think the Mets were the better team that year.

Yet, the Cardinals still had Pujols, Edmonds, Rolen in the middle of that lineup in their primes. That will nullify a lot of "stud" pitching.

[MikeThierry]

For all the "luck" the Cards had in 2006, maybe this year we are paying for it. They have the best offense in the NL, surprisingly the 2nd best starting ERA in baseball, the best run differential yet they're struggling for a WC spot.

[Patrick Bateman]

For all the "luck" the Cards had in 2006, maybe this year we are paying for it. They have the best offense in the NL, surprisingly the 2nd best starting ERA in baseball, the best run differential yet they're struggling for a WC spot.

Ya, but if you remove April the Reds have a better offense.

That's how these things work, right?

[Brutus]

Ya, but if you remove April the Reds have a better offense.

That's how these things work, right?

April 31:

St. Louis (15-8, +53)

Cincinnati (11-11, -3)

May 9:

St. Louis (20-11, +75)

Cincinnati (16-14, +6)

Since:

St. Louis (47-45, +40)

Cincinnati (60-35, +69)

[RedLegsToday]

Man, Houston is terrible. An embarassment, really. To think, they were 22-23 at one point.

edit: 6-33 since the all-star break. That's a .154 win%

edit edit: 7-43 in their last 50! That's a .140 win%. We're talking Charlie Brown-level losing here people!

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

It's nice to see we still have three more games with the AAstros so we can cancel out St. Louis' freebies this week.

[Gizmo]

It's too bad we're going to be losing a free leg up over the East and West for the Wild cards after this season :(

[redsmetz]

Man, Houston is terrible. An embarassment, really. To think, they were 22-23 at one point.

edit: 6-33 since the all-star break. That's a .154 win%

edit edit: 7-43 in their last 50! That's a .140 win%. We're talking Charlie Brown-level losing here people!

I can't tell you how many times I've said since they've played the Cards & the Pirates, "could you just pretend to be a major league team"? Such woefulness.

[Kc61]

It's nice to see we still have three more games with the AAstros so we can cancel out St. Louis' freebies this week.

The Reds, Cards, and Pirates each have six remaining games with the Astronomicals from here on out.

[RedLegsToday]

If they play the rest of the season at the same winning percentage as the last 50 games, they'll win 5 more and finish 44-118. This, being basically a .500 team for the first quarter of the season.

[fearofpopvol1]

If they play the rest of the season at the same winning percentage as the last 50 games, they'll win 5 more and finish 44-118. This, being basically a .500 team for the first quarter of the season.

Believe it or not, it still isn't the worst season at all. Even as recent as 2003, the Tigers were 43-119. The worst record of all time was the Cleveland Spiders who went 20-134 with a .130 winning %. I don't think that will ever be topped.

[Chip R]

It's nice to see we still have three more games with the AAstros so we can cancel out St. Louis' freebies this week.

We escaped by the skin of our teeth the last two games we played them. If it hadn't been for Coco, we may have lost 2 of 3 to them.

[Tom Servo]

We escaped by the skin of our teeth the last two games we played them. If it hadn't been for Coco, we may have lost 2 of 3 to them.
Yup. I'm not taking the lightly and hopefully the Reds don't either.

[vaticanplum]

Obviously I want the Reds to beat up on the Cards -- would love a sweep -- but I have to admit I'm getting some personal satisfaction from seeing the Pirates in third place.

[HeatherC1212]

I don't think the Reds players have taken any of their games lightly this whole season and I don't expect them to do that as the season winds down either. I bet they're pretty amped up to face the Cardinals this weekend. :p

[Tony Cloninger]

In a 2 then 3 five game series, the supposed advantage is with the team that has the last three games. This is the way the playoofs were first set up and the 1975 Reds were the first National League team to beat this "jinx" or whatever you want to call it. In my own opinion, it's only an advantage if you can manage to win one of those first two games. If you go home in a 2-0 hole then it's not an advantage


Thanks

[Brutus]

Brewers are up 6-2 on the Pirates in the 7th.

[traderumor]

Let's hope the Pirates wake up for the Cards series. Then they can finish off their circling down the drain.

I'm hoping for one measly win in our series, and Leake and Bailey at home to get them.

[Tom Servo]

Saw former Red Jeremy Affeldt walk in a run with the bases loaded for SF. And then he did it again to the next batter. And then he got the third guy to ground out. I'm pretty sure if it were Cincinnati this board would have melted down after the 2nd walk if the manager kept him in.

[Gizmo]

How long before we stop watching the Pirates and Cards and start watching the Nationals and the #1 seed? Be nice to have the division wrapped up in the next few weeks.

[traderumor]

How long before we stop watching the Pirates and Cards and start watching the Nationals and the #1 seed? Be nice to have the division wrapped up in the next few weeks.After the Cards go 2-5 in their next seven?

[traderumor]

Bucs win 4-0, Nats lose to Phils 4-2.

[Roy Tucker]

Obviously I want the Reds to beat up on the Cards -- would love a sweep -- but I have to admit I'm getting some personal satisfaction from seeing the Pirates in third place.

Hell hath no fury...

[Roy Tucker]

I am very very very happy the Reds won that game today.

The Cards are a very dangerous team, Don't let them get on a roll. Nip it in the bud.

[RBA]

Bucs win 4-0.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1315064/kenseth2_medium.gif

[fearofpopvol1]

No matter what happens, at least the Reds will not be swept. Most St. Louis can gain is a game on the Reds. If Cincy can win tomorrow, they will go up a Red.

[Brutus]

Pittsburgh is up 2-0 on St. Louis in the bottom of the 4th inning.

[Homer Bailey]

Go Pirates.

[Tom Servo]

Go Pirates.

[The Operator]

McCutchen just botched a throw from the outfield and let Molina of all people score from first base.

2-1 Pirates with The Cards threatening.

[The Operator]

On a side note, for those of you using mlb.tv - which feed is better, Pittsburgh's or St. Lous'?

I've got it on Pittsburgh right now but these guys are pretty homertastic. Not that I'd have much different expectation out of a Cardinals crew, though.

[Brutus]

On a side note, for those of you using mlb.tv - which feed is better, Pittsburgh's or St. Lous'?

I've got it on Pittsburgh right now but these guys are pretty homertastic. Not that I'd have much different expectation out of a Cardinals crew, though.

Mute :)

[REDSEER]

On a side note, for those of you using mlb.tv - which feed is better, Pittsburgh's or St. Lous'?

I've got it on Pittsburgh right now but these guys are pretty homertastic. Not that I'd have much different expectation out of a Cardinals crew, though.

I'm watching the Pirates feed. They are homers for sure, but they (for the most part) at least put together a decent broadcast. The Cards feed is unwatchable as far as I'm concerned.

[The Operator]

Burnett blows the lead on an RBI single to Kyle Lohse.

2-2

[The Operator]

Mute :) :thumbup: :laugh:



I'm watching the Pirates feed. They are homers for sure, but they (for the most part) at least put together a decent broadcast. The Cards feed is unwatchable as far as I'm concerned.That's what I figured. I just bought mlb.tv today for the rest of the season since they're running their ten-year anniversary sale, so I'm still learning all the in's and out's.

One thing I wish was different is the screen they go to during commercial breaks. I've got a plasma TV so I'm always cautious about screen burn-in. They've come a long way to prevent that, but that's still kinda of a long while to have the exact same image up in the dead center of your screen.

[Wonderful Monds]

Unrelated to our interests, but man, David Price is falling apart in Texas right now.

And now Texas sac bunts, giving up an out to a struggling pitcher. So, so stupid.

[The Operator]

Unrelated to our interests, but man, David Price is falling apart in Texas right now.

And now Texas sac bunts, giving up an out to a struggling pitcher. So, so stupid.Ron Washington would make Reds fans pine for the days of Dusty if we ever were to have the misfortune of Wash managing The Reds. Seems like a decent people person, but man does he ever make some bad in-game decisions. He basically handed Game 6 of the World Series last year to The Cardinals with a bow on it.

[The Operator]

Cardinals have gone up 4-2 on The Pirates as AJ Burnett no longer seems to be able to get anyone out. But now they've gone into rain delay, so it might be a late one in Pitt.

[hebroncougar]

On a side note, for those of you using mlb.tv - which feed is better, Pittsburgh's or St. Lous'?

I've got it on Pittsburgh right now but these guys are pretty homertastic. Not that I'd have much different expectation out of a Cardinals crew, though.

On my PS 3, I had the Cardinals on, with the radio audio playing instead of the tv crew. Shannon is pretty good to listen to.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

[Chip R]

Cards won 4-3. :(

[MikeThierry]

I'm watching the Pirates feed. They are homers for sure, but they (for the most part) at least put together a decent broadcast. The Cards feed is unwatchable as far as I'm concerned.

Tonight wasn't that bad. Dan McLaughlin is a decent play by play guy and oddly enough, Ricky Horton isn't that bad at the color. As long as they don't have that A-Clown, Hrabosky in their broadcast I'm fine with their tv side. Hrabosky is a damn disgrace to the broadcasting profession and shouldn't be anywhere near the broadcast booth.

[traderumor]

Well, the Pirates can't hold off gravity, circling the drain and all that's left is an ugly soap scum ring.

[traderumor]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/19937295/davey-johnson-mike-rizzo-exchange-harsh-words-after-loss

The article downplays this, but when I saw Mike Rizzo hanging out by the dugout during a rain delay because Strasburg was pitching, looking like a nervous expectant father, I took note. Now this sends a pretty strong signal that Rizzo's butting in to the manager's domain too much for Davey's comfort, meddling management if you will. It may be a long September in the Nation's Capital. So, please Nats, at least play well this weekend, 3 of 4 from the Cards is all I ask :)

[buckeyenut]

With the wailing and gnashing of teeth around the Cards, just a quick PSA to remind everyone that the Reds have the best record in baseball and have the biggest lead of any division leader.

[Homer Bailey]

With the wailing and gnashing of teeth around the Cards, just a quick PSA to remind everyone that the Reds have the best record in baseball and have the biggest lead of any division leader.

The Nationals actually have the best record in baseball. And we all know what kind of run the Cardinals are capable of. I want no part of that team in the playoffs.

[Vottomatic]

The Nationals actually have the best record in baseball. And we all know what kind of run the Cardinals are capable of. I want no part of that team in the playoffs.

What's a matter Colonel Sanders? Chicken?

(before someone takes me seriously, that's a famous quote from Spaceballs)

[Homer Bailey]

1-0 Pirates in the first on a Garret Jones sac fly.

[The Operator]

Molina just got absolutely ran over in a collision at home plate. Wow!

[hebroncougar]

Wow.............Molina just got steamrolled by Josh Harrison in the game tonight. He's hurting.

[REDSEER]

What a play by Molina. Wow. Hope he's okay, but that looked like a sure concussion. Took him a few minutes to shake the cobwebs out.

[The Operator]

If Molina's out for very long it could definitely affect the standings as we head down the stretch. Based on what I saw I'd say he's at least going to head to the 7-day concussion DL.

[vaticanplum]

Harrison is a complete punk. He really is.

[Homer Bailey]

3-0 Pirates on an Alvarez homer.

[The Operator]

3-0 Pirates on an Alvarez homer.
My mlb.tv must have a slight delay, it just happened on my feed.

[hebroncougar]

Harrison is a complete punk. He really is.

I don't think it was malicious. But I bet Harrison gets plunked leading off the 4th. You know it's coming. Things could get real interesting. Hope Molina's ok, but wow, he took a shot.

[Tom Servo]

Harrison is a complete punk. He really is.
Maybe, but I didn't see anything wrong with what he did there.

[The Operator]

Maybe, but I didn't see anything wrong with what he did there.Agreed.

[Homer Bailey]

My mlb.tv must have a slight delay, it just happened on my feed.

I'm following on gameday in the background. Gameday is usually a bit ahead of mlb.tv.

[REDSEER]

I'm following on gameday in the background. Gameday is usually a bit ahead of mlb.tv.

One thing I've found is that if I turn off the NexDef plug in and lose the DVR functionality (on laptop) I'm usually just a split second behind the TV broadcast and usually right on with Gameday. With an iPad or NexDef plug-in on, I'm usually a good 20 seconds behind.

[RedFanAlways1966]

Molina was standing in the baseline and was blocking the plate. Did not seem Harrison did anything dirty on that play. I give him credit for hanging onto the ball. They might need to check to see if any of the neck tats fell off.

[OesterPoster]

Yeah, that wasn't dirty. Molina left him nowhere to go at all. Harrison had to do it.

[vaticanplum]

Maybe, but I didn't see anything wrong with what he did there.

I should have clarified. I didn't even see the play; I'm not saying it wasn't legit in this case. I was just pointing out that in general, he is a huge punk.

[HeatherC1212]

I just watched the Molina hit on my phone and WOW, that had to hurt. I'm not a fan of his at all but boy did he take quite a hit. I hope he's all right. :eek:

[Homer Bailey]

4-0 Pirates, with runners on 2nd and 3rd with nobody out.

[The Operator]

Pirates up 5-0 and still threatening!

[Homer Bailey]

There it is. Harrison hit by a pitch.

[hebroncougar]

And.............why am I not surprised. Hurdle comes out to argue about his team getting warned. While he's out there CHRIS CARPENTER starts yelling and jawing at him from the dugout. So much so, that the Cardinals radio team was talking about it.

[The Operator]

Pirates up 7-0

Hope getting your revenge was worth it, lol.

[The Operator]

And.............why am I not surprised. Hurdle comes out to argue about his team getting warned. While he's out there CHRIS CARPENTER starts yelling and jawing at him from the dugout.He just can't help himself.

[Tom Servo]

And.............why am I not surprised. Hurdle comes out to argue about his team getting warned. While he's out there CHRIS CARPENTER starts yelling and jawing at him from the dugout. So much so, that the Cardinals radio team was talking about it.
When the Pirates announcers were talking about the Cardinals protesting the hit or using retaliation, I turned to my dad and assured him that would indeed happen since this is the St. Louis Cardnals and they are the self-appointed bastions of all that is right and holy in professional baseball.

[hebroncougar]

When the Pirates announcers were talking about the Cardinals protesting the hit or using retaliation, I turned to my dad and assured him that would indeed happen since this is the St. Louis Cardnals and they are the self-appointed bastions of all that is right and holy in professional baseball.

I don't mind them hitting him. But Carpenter jawing? The guy hasn't thrown a pitch all year. :laugh:

[RollyInRaleigh]

Josh Harrison is a Cincinnati boy. Nephew of former big leaguer John Shelby and a UC player.

[HeatherC1212]

How can anyone be a fan of Chris Carpenter? He's a ginormous nuisance, not all that bright apparently, and a whiny pain in the behind. :eek:

[The Operator]

Pirates up 8-0 on another Alvarez homer.

[Gizmo]

Nationals also down big tonight, 7-0 in 6th.

[Brutus]

I'm still conflicted on the Pirates-Cards issue.

On one hand, I despise the Cardinals and I think it's bush league to bean a guy for doing what's legal (I hate the home plate collision but until the rules say you can't do it, you can). On the other hand, the Pirates have not endeared themselves to me this season either.

Tom Servo is right though, I hate how the Cards fancy themselves as the proprietor of ethics in MLB.

[CarolinaRedleg]

And.............why am I not surprised. Hurdle comes out to argue about his team getting warned. While he's out there CHRIS CARPENTER starts yelling and jawing at him from the dugout. So much so, that the Cardinals radio team was talking about it.

Maybe he was loudly explaining something to his son? :laugh::lol:

[The Operator]

I'm still conflicted on the Pirates-Cards issue.

On one hand, I despise the Cardinals and I think it's bush league to bean a guy for doing what's legal (I hate the home plate collision but until the rules say you can't do it, you can). On the other hand, the Pirates have not endeared themselves to me this season either.

Tom Servo is right though, I hate how the Cards fancy themselves as the proprietor of ethics in MLB.Well said.

The Pirates really got on my nerves during their last visit to GABP but in this situation they are right. The Cardinals are so self-unaware it's not funny. LaRussa is gone but his tactics and methods are clearly still in place.


And Chris Carpenter needs anger management, for real. He's borderline Milton Bradley in pitcher form. Makes you wonder if he's experiencing roid rage, or he might just really be that big of a jerk. Maybe a little of both.

[redsmetz]

Well said.

The Pirates really got on my nerves during their last visit to GABP but in this situation they are right. The Cardinals are so self-unaware it's not funny.

LaRussa is gone but his tactics and methods are clearly still in place.


And Chris Carpenter needs anger management, for real. He's borderline Milton Bradley in pitcher form. Makes you wonder if he's experiencing roid rage, or he might just really be that big of a jerk. Maybe a little of both.

I can't say why Carpenter behaves the way he does, but MLB needs to get him under control. He's the one who escalated the Reds/Cardinals brouhaha and he continues to show this tendency of a short fuse.

[The Operator]

Pirates up 9-0 on a two-out triple in the 7th.

[Brutus]

Miami leads by a 9-0 margin over Washington as well.

[vaticanplum]

Josh Harrison is a Cincinnati boy. Nephew of former big leaguer John Shelby and a UC player.

That's great. He's still a huge punk :)

Lucky for him, here comes Chris Carpenter. That tends to recalibrate the scale of punkdom pretty quickly.

[MikeThierry]

This is bad, if you're a Cards fan. You can just see it in the play tonight. When Molina went down, it's almost as if the wind was let out of the sails for the Cards. He's the one player the Cards CANNOT afford to lose for a long period of time.

[cincrazy]

Looks pretty clearly like Molina has a concussion. And that hit was so brutal, it may be a tough concussion to shake. Bad news for them.

Every day the Cards don't gain ground on the Reds is a bad day, let alone if they lose ground.

[RedsfaninMT]

Looks pretty clearly like Molina has a concussion. And that hit was so brutal, it may be a tough concussion to shake. Bad news for them.

Every day the Cards lose ground on the Reds is a great day, let alone if they lose ground.

Fixed

[RedsMan3203]

I don't like the guy (Molina) and I hate to see people get hurt... But that could not have happened to a better guy.. My only wish was it was either Dunn or Phillips making that hit.

[MikeThierry]

Anyone surprised that Molina somehow held onto that ball?

[RedsMan3203]

Anyone surprised that Molina somehow held onto that ball?

Nope. He is legit behind the plate...

Its like I tell friends on some of the music I like... They'll say to me, I can't believe you like that guy.. he is an arse...

I always say, I don't have to like the person to like the music.... Meaning the music is real and I don't care if he is a arse...

I feel the sameway about Molina... Love the baseball, hate the person... If that makes sense.

[vaticanplum]

Nope. He is legit behind the plate...

Its like I tell friends on some of the music I like... They'll say to me, I can't believe you like that guy.. he is an arse...

I always say, I don't have to like the person to like the music.... Meaning the music is real and I don't care if he is a arse...

I feel the sameway about Molina... Love the baseball, hate the person... If that makes sense.

I'm with you. I can't help but respect a good catcher.

[Brutus]

The almighty Dodgers, 1-2 since "the trade," are losing 6-2 tonight to Colorado after losing 10-0 last night.

[MikeThierry]

Nope. He is legit behind the plate...

Its like I tell friends on some of the music I like... They'll say to me, I can't believe you like that guy.. he is an arse...

I always say, I don't have to like the person to like the music.... Meaning the music is real and I don't care if he is a arse...

I feel the sameway about Molina... Love the baseball, hate the person... If that makes sense.

No doubt about it. Molina actually leads all catchers in total WAR this season. He is quietly putting up a MVP type season. Not saying he's the MVP of the league but his numbers are there as well as his brilliant defense.

[Brutus]

No doubt about it. Molina actually leads all catchers in total WAR this season. He is quietly putting up a MVP type season. Not saying he's the MVP of the league but his numbers are there as well as his brilliant defense.

He's not MVP of the league but I wholeheartedly agree he's MVP of the Cardinals and with or without knowing his WAR, I'd have said he's the best catcher in the majors this year.

He was always a great defensive catcher with a decent bat, but now he's become a great hitter as well.

...but I still hate him :)

[MikeThierry]

He's not MVP of the league but I wholeheartedly he's MVP of the Cardinals and with or without knowing his WAR, I'd have said he's the best catcher in the majors this year.

He was always a great defensive catcher with a decent bat, but now he's become a great hitter as well.

...but I still hate him :)

I sort of feel the same way about Brandon Phillips. I would love for him to play for the Cards and is clearly a top 4-5 2B in the game. He makes a great play a night. Still, I'm not a fan of his personality.

[Chip R]

Anyone surprised that Molina somehow held onto that ball?

I'd have been surprised if anyone held on to the ball after that collision. :eek:

Concussions aren't anything to sneeze at. Yadi may want to take the rest of the season off.

[757690]

If Molina is out for the season, look for the Cardinals to blame Johnny Cueto ;)

[Brutus]

I just realized... the Orioles (-36) are now within 3 1/2 games of the Yankees (+99). Yeesh.

[vaticanplum]

I just realized... the Orioles (-36) are now within 3 1/2 games of the Yankees (+99). Yeesh.

I don't know why more people aren't talking about the orioles. No one has any idea how they're doing what they're doing, but they haven't stopped yet. They have an insane record in one-run games. They just continue to sustain the unsustainable.

Another thing to think about in our scoreboard watching (and I feel like I'm reeaaaaally tempting fate with the baseball gods on this one): with a seven-game lead on the Cards, the Reds now have a substantially bigger divisional lead than any other team. The next biggest lead is the Rangers, who have 5.5 games on the A's; every other division's top two teams are within a 2-4 game range. In other words, as of right now, this division looks to be more of a lock than any other.

[Tom Servo]

I just realized... the Orioles (-36) are now within 3 1/2 games of the Yankees (+99). Yeesh.
Old Man Pythag got drunk again.

[WrongVerb]

Old Man Pythag got drunk again.

Not to start a whole 'nother discussion, but I wonder if there's a point where the run differential is so substantial that any increase becomes insubstantial. That is, if a team is +70, does it really make a difference if they add 30 runs to that differential and become +100? To my mind, if a team is winning big, then winning bigger isn't going to matter.

[Vottomatic]

I wonder how Chris Carpenter is going to explain Molina's injury to his son?

I always hated Hines Ward of the Steelers. But I always wished he played for the Bengals. :D You can dislike a guy but respect the way he plays the game. I respect Molina as a catcher/player. But I don't like him.

Like others, I never like to see a player get hurt. But if someone had to get hurt, it couldn't have happened to a better guy.

If Yadier is out for the season, I think this has a huge impact on the Cardinals. He is probably one of the best, if not the best, catcher in the game. Defensively, game-calling, and offensively...........it will hurt them.

I'm hoping the Pirates beat them tonight, paired with a Reds win. Would put both the Cards and Pie-Rats back 9 with around 30 games to go.

[HeatherC1212]

I just realized... the Orioles (-36) are now within 3 1/2 games of the Yankees (+99). Yeesh.


Old Man Pythag got drunk again.

What a great story the O's are this year. Their fans deserve it after way too many disappointing years and I absolutely love seeing the O's screw up all the baseball pundits predictions this year, LOL :lol:

[Boss-Hog]

I'm hoping the Pirates beat them tonight, paired with a Reds win. Would put both the Cards and Pie-Rats back 9 with around 30 games to go.

Not to split hairs, but that would put the Cards eight back.

[traderumor]

I sort of feel the same way about Brandon Phillips. I would love for him to play for the Cards and is clearly a top 4-5 2B in the game. He makes a great play a night. Still, I'm not a fan of his personality.Yea, its hard to like a guy who is smiling, joking and laughing a lot, with everyone. Guys with a scowl on their face acting like they are mad at the world are much easier to appreciate. :confused:

[RedsMan3203]

Update: per RotoWorld




Yadier Molina passed a SCAT II concussion test and also had X-rays come back clean following Tuesday's home plate collision.
Great news. Molina has been diagnosed with upper back, shoulder and neck strains and is surely very sore after a big collision at home plate with the Pirates' Josh Harrison, but it sounds like he could conceivably return to the lineup shortly. Tony Cruz will start until Yadi is ready, and Bryan Anderson has been called up to provide catching depth.

[cincrazy]

Yea, its hard to like a guy who is smiling, joking and laughing a lot, with everyone. Guys with a scowl on their face acting like they are mad at the world are much easier to appreciate. :confused:


Brandon has a bit of cockiness and flair to his game. I don't think it should come as a surprise that some opposing fans don't like him. A poll of recent MLB players just showed that they think he's one of the top 5 "phony" players in the game. A lot of people love Brandon. But he gets under a lot of people's skin.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Yea, its hard to like a guy who is smiling, joking and laughing a lot, with everyone. Guys with a scowl on their face acting like they are mad at the world are much easier to appreciate. :confused:

He can come off as quite the hotdog coated in mustard. I love the guy, but I'd readily admit that one. Barehanded plays when he doesn't need to, behind the back or between the legs when it's not necessary, etc. Oh yeah, lots of mustard.

[Sea Ray]

I just realized... the Orioles (-36) are now within 3 1/2 games of the Yankees (+99). Yeesh.

You bring up an interesting case. The Orioles have won 13 one run games in a row and are 24-6 in 1-run games on the year. Seems to me that they've been incredibly fortunate this year. Am I being unfair?

[Sea Ray]

He can come off as quite the hotdog coated in mustard. I love the guy, but I'd readily admit that one. Barehanded plays when he doesn't need to, behind the back or between the legs when it's not necessary, etc. Oh yeah, lots of mustard.

We need some of that in Cincinnati. We'd fall asleep if all we had were Votto/Bruce types

[bucksfan2]

You bring up an interesting case. The Orioles have won 13 one run games in a row and are 24-6 in 1-run games on the year. Seems to me that they've been incredibly fortunate this year. Am I being unfair?

You can say they have been fortunate, lucky, etc. The reality is they probably have. But as the season continues to wind down those 24 wins are still 24 wins. It may balance out going forward, but as of right now they are in a good place.

[lollipopcurve]

I'd have been surprised if anyone held on to the ball after that collision.

Molina is as tough a player as there is.


I can't help but respect a good catcher.

I respect Molina as much as any player in the game. Warrior if there ever was one.

[traderumor]

Brandon has a bit of cockiness and flair to his game. I don't think it should come as a surprise that some opposing fans don't like him. A poll of recent MLB players just showed that they think he's one of the top 5 "phony" players in the game. A lot of people love Brandon. But he gets under a lot of people's skin.Oh, I certainly get that, I just find it humorous in a Phillips vs. Molina comparison. If you give me my druthers on likeable people, its the upbeat person over the scowling-tough guy type.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

The only thing that would make Molina more repulsive and despicable would be if he played for the Pittsburgh Steelers. As it is, he plays for a team nearly as revolting.

[OldXOhio]

Brandon has a bit of cockiness and flair to his game. I don't think it should come as a surprise that some opposing fans don't like him. A poll of recent MLB players just showed that they think he's one of the top 5 "phony" players in the game. A lot of people love Brandon. But he gets under a lot of people's skin.

A little bit of Brandon goes a long way. Even his teammates would tell you that.

[OldXOhio]

Molina is as tough a player as there is.



I respect Molina as much as any player in the game. Warrior if there ever was one.

I don't really get the disdain for Molina here. Perhaps it's the hangover from the 2010 bruha, or his MVP caliber play, or just simply the uniform he wears. But when I think over time of a c*ck wearing Cardinal colors, I think Carpenter and LaRussa and leave it there.

[RollyInRaleigh]

That's great. He's still a huge punk :)

Lucky for him, here comes Chris Carpenter. That tends to recalibrate the scale of punkdom pretty quickly.

Interesting. Why is he a punk, in your opinion? I haven't seen the kid play enough to form any opinion about him.

Carpenter and Molina are card carrying members of that club, in my opinion.

[Brutus]

You bring up an interesting case. The Orioles have won 13 one run games in a row and are 24-6 in 1-run games on the year. Seems to me that they've been incredibly fortunate this year. Am I being unfair?

I've never formulated a position on whether success in 1-run games is a product of luck, but it seems if you're being unfair, then most people are too as that seems to be a majority opinion now.

In this case, I agree it seems they've had a lot of good fortune.

[traderumor]

He can come off as quite the hotdog coated in mustard. I love the guy, but I'd readily admit that one. Barehanded plays when he doesn't need to, behind the back or between the legs when it's not necessary, etc. Oh yeah, lots of mustard.When its not necessary? I'd disagree. Maybe a few barehands, but I've never seen him do the really outlandish stuff in fielding outside of the play. He does raise his arms like he's catching a pop up as Bruce makes the catch. That's hot dog. The between the legs and behind the back are always in the context of amazing plays. I'll take him over the NL All Star starter :D

[RollyInRaleigh]

Me too.

[westofyou]

When its not necessary? I'd disagree. Maybe a few barehands, but I've never seen him do the really outlandish stuff in fielding outside of the play. He does raise his arms like he's catching a pop up as Bruce makes the catch. That's hot dog. The between the legs and behind the back are always in the context of amazing plays. I'll take him over the NL All Star starter :D

Brandon is flashy, but not really a hot dog extraordinaire.. Like this guy was:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_HP3LY8k4IIQ/SoHKmmKTuTI/AAAAAAAABPE/zX2u45FtwEk/s400/1974%2BTopps%2BTito%2BFuentes%2BFront.jpg