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CySeymour
08-15-2012, 02:44 PM
Per Rosenthal on Twitter. Tested positive for testosterone apparently.

TOBTTReds
08-15-2012, 02:44 PM
This might effect some teams!


MLB ‏@MLB
BREAKING: Giants OF Melky Cabrera suspended 50 games without pay after testing positive for Testosterone, a performance-enhancing substance.

CySeymour
08-15-2012, 02:46 PM
n/m

WildcatFan
08-15-2012, 02:46 PM
Wow. Talk about shaking up the playoff race. You can pretty much pencil the Dodgers in.

RedsManRick
08-15-2012, 02:47 PM
Bam! That certainly puts his massive step forward in a whole new light. What's potentially unfortunate is that it's a Bonds-like situation where the guy really commits himself to a more rigorous work ethic which, by itself, would have produced solid results. But he goes the next step and puts a PED in the mix too, undermining all credibility he has for the performance gains being "real".

TOBTTReds
08-15-2012, 02:48 PM
Wow. Talk about shaking up the playoff race. You can pretty much pencil the Dodgers in.

Just like the Reds fall off after Votto went out?;)

Tom Servo
08-15-2012, 02:48 PM
The Melkman delivers.

Brutus
08-15-2012, 02:51 PM
I guess Andrew Baggarly should not have apologized after all...


I thought I was doing that Friday when I chose to ask Melky Cabrera about rumors that I had heard from several different readers who had contacted me via email and my Twitter account over the past few days. I had no idea where these rumors started, but the questions were starting to mushroom about whether Cabrera flunked a drug test and would face a 50-game suspension.

Let’s be clear: There is no evidence that there is any shred of truth to these rumors. Cabrera knew nothing about it. He contacted the union and his agent. They told him the rumors were unfounded as well. If Cabrera had failed a test, he and the union would’ve been the first to know. The rumor, to my knowledge, is a red herring. Cabrera even suggested to me that Dodgers fans could have made it up as a distraction.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/baseball-san-francisco-giants/giants-talk/A-public-apology-to-Melky-Cabrera?blockID=747609&feedID=10850

WildcatFan
08-15-2012, 02:52 PM
Just like the Reds fall off after Votto went out?;)

That's why I said pencil, :thumbup:

But seriously, that's the rest of the season. And LA seems to be putting it all together at the right time.

traderumor
08-15-2012, 02:56 PM
Let's hope the sample was handled properly. :p

cumberlandreds
08-15-2012, 02:56 PM
He should be contacting Ryan Braun's lawyers right away.

Brutus
08-15-2012, 02:57 PM
Melky has already issued a statement confessing to using a banned substance he "should not have used" and apologized for it. Stand-up guy, that Melky.

cincrazy
08-15-2012, 02:58 PM
So will he be back for the postseason? I don't even think it's fair he gets to compete in the postseason if that's the case.

Homer Bailey
08-15-2012, 03:01 PM
This actually explains a lot re: Melky.

757690
08-15-2012, 03:02 PM
He should be contacting Ryan Braun's lawyers right away.

He just needs to get the same pathetic arbitrator as Braun.

UKFlounder
08-15-2012, 03:02 PM
That depends on how his teammates do the rest of the way.

If he does the crime and does the time, then time is up before the playoffs, he should be allowed back, I suppose.


So will he be back for the postseason? I don't even think it's fair he gets to compete in the postseason if that's the case.

OesterPoster
08-15-2012, 03:03 PM
So will he be back for the postseason? I don't even think it's fair he gets to compete in the postseason if that's the case.

Don't know, but they only have 45 games remaining anyway. They'd have to win at least one series, unless a wildcard playoff counts too.

reds44
08-15-2012, 03:03 PM
It doesn't make up for it, but it was nice to see Melky actually man up to what he did.

Cedric
08-15-2012, 03:05 PM
Any player from the Dominican should be subject to more scrutiny than others. Just too much money for handlers, etc.. Also too much history with this kind of thing from those players. Trust none of them.

CySeymour
08-15-2012, 03:06 PM
Any player from the Dominican should be subject to more scrutiny than others. Just too much money for handlers, etc.. Also too much history with this kind of thing from those players. Trust none of them.

In today's politically correct environment, that's a pretty dangerous way to handle things.

kaldaniels
08-15-2012, 03:06 PM
If a guy is going to roid, I will always enjoy him getting caught.

reds44
08-15-2012, 03:07 PM
Any player from the Dominican should be subject to more scrutiny than others. Just too much money for handlers, etc.. Also too much history with this kind of thing from those players. Trust none of them.
Um, no.

WildcatFan
08-15-2012, 03:10 PM
Any player from the Dominican should be subject to more scrutiny than others. Just too much money for handlers, etc.. Also too much history with this kind of thing from those players. Trust none of them.

I can only assume that was written from your rocking chair with that shotgun on your lap!

Wonderful Monds
08-15-2012, 03:10 PM
This is a pretty big bummer. I liked Melky, and I always like to see a player breakout into a superstar out of nowhere the way he did.

Crumbley
08-15-2012, 03:12 PM
I can only assume that was written from your rocking chair with that shotgun on your lap!
Blanket under the shotgun.

Love how the strict the rules are for this, making it such a huge risk. I'm sure this will scare some guys, and that's great.

Cedric
08-15-2012, 03:13 PM
I can only assume that was written from your rocking chair with that shotgun on your lap!

Do the math/percentages on this subject and get back to me. The handlers know how to get these players off the island and into the money. If anything I'm saying isn't supported by the facts than correct me.

reds44
08-15-2012, 03:15 PM
So if I call this sterotyping, will I be mocked for it again? Just curious before I do it.

Dom Heffner
08-15-2012, 03:16 PM
I was telling a friend last week he had to be roiding. I was half-kidding but apparently half-right.

WVRedsFan
08-15-2012, 03:17 PM
Don't the Reds have some players from that area? God not bless the lawyers and handlers. Bad for the Giants, but why couldn't it happen to the Pirates or Cardinals? Just asking? And the question is who else is roiding? Enhanced performance will never look the same again.

CySeymour
08-15-2012, 03:17 PM
Do the math/percentages on this subject and get back to me.

Actually, since you made the claim, isn't the burden on you to show said math?

Cedric
08-15-2012, 03:19 PM
So if I call this sterotyping, will I be mocked for it again? Just curious before I do it.

It's stereotyping. Of course it is. Does that mean I'm questioning their decision making or their intelligence because of their race? Of coese not. I'm saying it's a byproduct of the system and the fact that the Dominican is very unregulated. It's a systematic problem as the numbers back me up.

Caveman Techie
08-15-2012, 03:20 PM
Do the math/percentages on this subject and get back to me. The handlers know how to get these players off the island and into the money. If anything I'm saying isn't supported by the facts than correct me.

You haven't provided facts, you stated your opinion only. The great thing about generalizations is I only have to show one example that disputes your theory to disprove it.

As such I submit the name of Braun.

Brutus
08-15-2012, 03:21 PM
*

WildcatFan
08-15-2012, 03:21 PM
Actually, since you made the claim, isn't the burden on you to show said math?

Seven of the 12 major leaguers suspended since the new 50-game first offense policy have been born in the Dominican Republic. Don't see why that warrants stricter testing for Dominican-born players.

kaldaniels
08-15-2012, 03:23 PM
It's stereotyping. Of course it is. Does that mean I'm questioning their decision making or their intelligence because of their race? Of coese not. I'm saying it's a byproduct of the system and the fact that the Dominican is very unregulated. It's a systematic problem as the numbers back me up.

Please show what numbers back up "trust none of them".

reds44
08-15-2012, 03:23 PM
Seven of the 12 major leaguers suspended since the new 50-game first offense policy have been born in the Dominican Republic. Don't see why that warrants stricter testing for Dominican-born players.
Clearly 7 of 12 is a vast majority.

/Sarcasm

savafan
08-15-2012, 03:25 PM
Clearly 7 of 12 is a vast majority.

/Sarcasm

Well... it is a majority :D

cincrazy
08-15-2012, 03:27 PM
Oh lord. Not another of these issues cropping up. Can we stop this now before this thread gets derailed to unspeakable proportions?

cincrazy
08-15-2012, 03:28 PM
Melky is apologetic. And he owned it. I like to see that. Good for him.

bucksfan2
08-15-2012, 03:29 PM
Melky is apologetic. And he owned it. I like to see that. Good for him.

Melky cheated. Plain and simple. He cheated his way to a career year an an All Star appearance. The only reason he is apologetic is because he got caught. I didn't see him apologizing to the other teams he played this year knowing that he was cheating.

wolfboy
08-15-2012, 03:30 PM
Oh lord. Not another of these issues cropping up. Can we stop this now before this thread gets derailed to unspeakable proportions?

Allow me to redirect: Adam Dunn is a first ballot Hall of Famer.

Discuss.

OesterPoster
08-15-2012, 03:48 PM
Some questions getting answered by Jayson Stark:

Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst

Answer to most prevalent Melky question: Yes, he'd serve susp. in last 45 games of reg. season, then 5 games in postseason if Giants play 5

OesterPoster
08-15-2012, 03:49 PM
Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst

Answer to 2nd most prevalent Melky question: He's one PA shy of qualifying for batting title. Can still win it if no one finishes above .346

WildcatFan
08-15-2012, 04:06 PM
Interesting tweet from @JohnSheaHey:


Someone needs to ask Ron Washington how he feels about AL losing home-field advantage for WS in part because of the MVP of All-Star Game.

Brutus
08-15-2012, 04:10 PM
Interesting tweet from @JohnSheaHey:

They lost by 8 runs. If it were a close game, I'd say he has an argument. But when you lose by 8 runs, you don't get to complain about one player juicing, Ron.

dougdirt
08-15-2012, 04:10 PM
Clearly 7 of 12 is a vast majority.

/Sarcasm

7 out of 12 doesn't seem like a lot, but then when you consider that only about 20% of baseball players are from there, it looks quite a bit worse.

You can get the stuff at any store you want down there. Granted you can probably walk into any gym in this country and get the stuff too.

edabbs44
08-15-2012, 04:12 PM
Clearly 7 of 12 is a vast majority.

/Sarcasm

What percentage of the majors is from the DR? Once you have that info then you can start to take a position.

medford
08-15-2012, 04:14 PM
7 out of 12 doesn't seem like a lot, but then when you consider that only about 20% of baseball players are from there, it looks quite a bit worse.

You can get the stuff at any store you want down there. Granted you can probably walk into any gym in this country and get the stuff too.

One question, where were the other 5 from? Baseball is international, how many of the 5 were from America or Japan or Mexico or Venezula or wherever else? In any case, I'd say a sample of 12 is a pretty darn small sample size. Perhaps players from the dominican juice just as often as players from the US, they're just not as good about covering it up?

kaldaniels
08-15-2012, 04:15 PM
What if I said the "7 of 12 players were born in the DR" fact is incorrect?

Brutus
08-15-2012, 04:15 PM
What percentage of the majors is from the DR? Once you have that info then you can start to take a position.

I don't know the current numbers, but I was able to find the numbers all-time.

Using Sean Lahman's baseball database, out of nearly 18,000 players that have played in the majors... how many are from the D.R.? 542.

That's about 3% of the total.

kaldaniels
08-15-2012, 04:16 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_suspended_fo r_performance-enhancing_drugs

Hint: Clicking on the player name will tell you where they were born.

WildcatFan
08-15-2012, 04:17 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_suspended_fo r_performance-enhancing_drugs

Hint: Clicking on the player name will tell you where they were born.

That's what I used, too. I took the ones after Nov. 15, 2005, which is when the 50-game suspension came into play. What did you see differently?

kaldaniels
08-15-2012, 04:18 PM
That's what I used, too. I took the ones after Nov. 15, 2005, which is when the 50-game suspension came into play. What did you see differently?

Honestly I am all confused. What are these 25 game suspensions then?

RedsBaron
08-15-2012, 04:19 PM
If Baseball-Reference.com's stats are up to date, Cabrera's suspension could have an effect upon the batting title race. Right now, Cabrera ranks second in the NL at .346 behind McCutcheon's .359. McCutcheon has a healthy lead but it certainly is possible that he could slump enough over the final quarter of the season to fall below Cabrera's .346. Since the Giants only have 45 regular season games left, his regualr season appears over.
If McCutcheon slips below .346 does Cabrera win the batting crown (assuming no one else, such as Joey Votto, ups his average over .346)?
Not if the Giants play 162 games.
IIRC, in order to be eligible for the batting title a player must have 3.1 plate appearances per game. Over 162 games this comes out to 502 plate appearances.
Baseball-Reference.com lists Cabrera with 501 plate apearances this season, one short.
However, I think there is also a rule that if he was still the batting leader even if you calculated his average by adding additional outs so as to get him to the necessary number of plate appearances then he is still awarded the batting title.
I hope Votto comes back and goes on a tear to lift his average so high he wins the title outright.

Chip R
08-15-2012, 04:19 PM
Interesting tweet from @JohnSheaHey:

Bud is the one to blame for that.

WildcatFan
08-15-2012, 04:26 PM
Honestly I am all confused. What are these 25 game suspensions then?

Oh, I don't know. I didn't notice that until now.

This whole thing is a mess. Yes, Dominicans have better access to the stuff, but yes, it's profiling to test them more strictly or more often than everyone else. According to that list, there's been Americans, Venezuelans, Japanese, etc., testing positive, and it seems to me the system is working pretty well (Braun excluded) regardless of where you were born. Guys are getting caught, and the stats are showing we're firmly out of the steroid era.

The nationality stuff is silly and unproductive, and I'm sorry I engaged. This'll be it from me.

Brutus
08-15-2012, 04:26 PM
Of the current MLB players listed on Wiki, I counted 10 of 26 being from the Dominican (38%) and 10 of 47 that are currently in the minors.

In total, that's 20 of 73 (27%).

I'm going to assume the current total of Dominican players in the Majors is similar to the 3% I mentioned earlier. My guess would be about 5-7% of current players being from the D.R.

kaldaniels
08-15-2012, 04:27 PM
On that wikipedia link be sure to scroll down to the minor league guys...

There he is, the one and only Keymaster!

kaldaniels
08-15-2012, 04:31 PM
Edinson should not count toward the number of guys from the DR who are performance enhancing. :D

"Prior to the conclusion of last season, my wife and I sought medical advice in Cincinnati with the hope of starting a family. As part of my consultation with the physician, I received certain prescribed medications to treat my condition. As a follow up to our original consultation, my wife and I visited another physician in our home city in the Dominican Republic this past off-season. This physician also gave me certain prescribed medications as part of my treatment. Unfortunately, I now know that the medication the physician in the Dominican gave me is one that is often used to treat my condition, but is also a banned substance under Major League Baseball's drug policy. As a result, I tested positive when I reported to spring training. Although I understand that I must accept responsibility for this mistake and have chosen not to challenge my suspension, I want to assure everyone that this was an isolated incident involving my genuine effort to treat a common medical issue and start a family. I was not trying in any way to gain an advantage in my baseball career. I am embarrassed by this whole situation and apologize to my family, friends, fans, teammates, and the entire Reds Organization for being a distraction and for causing them any difficulty. I simply want to accept the consequences, learn from the mistake, and continue to strive to be the best person and baseball player I can be."

Wonderful Monds
08-15-2012, 04:46 PM
Of the current MLB players listed on Wiki, I counted 10 of 26 being from the Dominican (38%) and 10 of 47 that are currently in the minors.

In total, that's 20 of 73 (27%).

I'm going to assume the current total of Dominican players in the Majors is similar to the 3% I mentioned earlier. My guess would be about 5-7% of current players being from the D.R.

That number seems awfully low, and if you're using all time numbers, I feel like the pre-integration era would skew it too much for it to be accurate.

cincrazy
08-15-2012, 04:53 PM
Melky cheated. Plain and simple. He cheated his way to a career year an an All Star appearance. The only reason he is apologetic is because he got caught. I didn't see him apologizing to the other teams he played this year knowing that he was cheating.

Like other teams he's going up against don't have guys juicing as well? You don't know that this is the only reason he turned things around on the field. How do you know he wasn't juicing his holy career? How does that explain the fact that he sucked for a few years?

I'm not defending him. Clearly he got caught, and he deserves the suspension. But at least he owned up to it like a man and didn't go screaming "POOR ME!"

We'd be naive to think there aren't any Reds using PEDs currently.

Brutus
08-15-2012, 05:02 PM
That number seems awfully low, and if you're using all time numbers, I feel like the pre-integration era would skew it too much for it to be accurate.

I just looked at the database, and prior to the 2012 season, there were about 150 active Dominican players reserved on Major League rosters. So while you're correct that number is a little low, it was in the ballpark. Given 40 players per team, it looks like about 10%.

hebroncougar
08-15-2012, 05:19 PM
Since Melky is being so forthcoming, I'd love him to answer how long or when he started taking them. I'd love to compare numbers before and after, since he seems to be one of the few that at least admit it.

OesterPoster
08-15-2012, 07:04 PM
Since Melky is being so forthcoming, I'd love him to answer how long or when he started taking them. I'd love to compare numbers before and after, since he seems to be one of the few that at least admit it.

Andrew Baggarly says the test occurred near the all star break. I found one toe injury update for him in mid May, so maybe he was using something to help with the injury. Couldn't find any other injury news for him in 2012.

Wonderful Monds
08-15-2012, 07:30 PM
So, does the league just assume all his numbers were good due to roids? Someone might get a bargain on the FA market this offseason if he can maintain his production reasonably.

hebroncougar
08-15-2012, 08:59 PM
So, does the league just assume all his numbers were good due to roids? Someone might get a bargain on the FA market this offseason if he can maintain his production reasonably.

He got a whole lot better last year. That's why I'd love him to be forthcoming.

Wonderful Monds
08-15-2012, 09:03 PM
He got a whole lot better last year. That's why I'd love him to be forthcoming.

He sure did. Granted, he's really in a no win situation here. If he says he started this year, no one will believe that. If he started prior to last year, everyone will assume his numbers are due to roids.

Truth be told, if he can play CF still, I would totally see if he would go for a 1 year bounce back deal. No one is going to give him big money anymore, so he doesn't have a lot to lose to go for the bigger contract after proving himself for a year.

Tony Cloninger
08-15-2012, 11:12 PM
He took it more like a man than Bruan did.

VR
08-15-2012, 11:56 PM
Reigning NL MVP and All Star MVP are roid users. Awesome Bud!

kaldaniels
08-16-2012, 12:03 AM
He took it more like a man than Bruan did.

Just a thought here...

With Braun we all heard that we shouldn't have even known about the matter because appeals are not made public.

Is it possible that this case with Cabrera has been appealed (and he lost) and we are none the wiser?

Tom Servo
08-16-2012, 12:08 AM
Just a thought here...

With Braun we all heard that we shouldn't have even known about the matter because appeals are not made public.

Is it possible that this case with Cabrera has been appealed (and he lost) and we are none the wiser?
I believe it's been said that Melky did appeal (as it was rumored that he failed several days ago), but don't quote me on that.

George Foster
08-16-2012, 12:18 AM
I believe it's been said that Melky did appeal (as it was rumored that he failed several days ago), but don't quote me on that.

In his statement, he admitted to it, said he should not have taken it, and said he was sorry.. Unlike Braun, I guess Melky took the pee test in the middle of the week instead of a weekend..:D

Wonderful Monds
08-16-2012, 04:25 AM
Here's an interesting piece on whether or not his numbers were boosted from the steroids or not:
http://deadspin.com/5935216/did-performance+enhancing-drugs-actually-help-melky-cabrera

Chip R
08-16-2012, 08:58 AM
Reigning NL MVP and All Star MVP are roid users. Awesome Bud!

The testing is working since it is catching these guys. Not quite sure how Bud is responsible for players making the choice to use steroids.

fearofpopvol1
08-18-2012, 02:03 AM
The two question I have are:

1. When was he tested and when was the league notified of the results? He had a major impact on the ASG and obviously he had a significant impact on the game.

2. How did this affect the trade deadline?

I can almost certainly answer that it affected the trade deadline with the Pence deal because Buster Olney claimed this morning that he first heard of the failed test on July 26, 5 days before the deadline. You can't tell me the team didn't know about it and didn't use Pence to shore up a lineup that would soon be missing it's best hitter.

Is that really fair?

redsmetz
08-18-2012, 06:25 AM
Here's some thoughts from Doug Glanville n the NY Times

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/17/baseball-faith-and-doubt/?ref=opinion

edabbs44
08-18-2012, 07:46 AM
Start banning these guys for longer with a claw back provision on their compensation.

traderumor
08-18-2012, 08:01 AM
The two question I have are:

1. When was he tested and when was the league notified of the results? He had a major impact on the ASG and obviously he had a significant impact on the game.

2. How did this affect the trade deadline?

I can almost certainly answer that it affected the trade deadline with the Pence deal because Buster Olney claimed this morning that he first heard of the failed test on July 26, 5 days before the deadline. You can't tell me the team didn't know about it and didn't use Pence to shore up a lineup that would soon be missing it's best hitter.

Is that really fair?I'm not sure I understand your objection here. Two teams agree to a trade, both think they received value. It isn't like the other teams couldn't have driven up the price for Pence regardless of this background situation. I don't see that as much different than knowing your guy who is "day to day" is likely to go on the DL, so you make a deal for insurance with that knowledge, but don't share it to keep other teams from knowing you have a sense of urgency and bid up a deal.

traderumor
08-18-2012, 08:05 AM
Here's some thoughts from Doug Glanville n the NY Times

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/17/baseball-faith-and-doubt/?ref=opinion


Baseball gave my sick father hope when he watched me play on television from his hospital room, the same hope he had when I hit my first Little League home run and he slipped me a $10 bill as a reward. Go back and vacate all amateur wins in games which Glanville played. He received improper benefits. ;)

fearofpopvol1
08-18-2012, 07:16 PM
I'm not sure I understand your objection here. Two teams agree to a trade, both think they received value. It isn't like the other teams couldn't have driven up the price for Pence regardless of this background situation. I don't see that as much different than knowing your guy who is "day to day" is likely to go on the DL, so you make a deal for insurance with that knowledge, but don't share it to keep other teams from knowing you have a sense of urgency and bid up a deal.

MLB should announce these things publicly, which gave San Francisco an unfair advantage. It's a very fair objection.

There is going to be continued cheating until MLB and the player's union agrees to offseason random drug testing. Guys can currently bulk up for 6 years before laying off the HGH.

cincrazy
08-19-2012, 11:58 AM
Melky is apologetic. And he owned it. I like to see that. Good for him.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8282185/san-francisco-giants-melky-cabrera-launched-fake-website-ruse-report-says


San Francisco Giants star outfielder Melky Cabrera mounted a campaign to avoid his 50-game suspension that included a fake website featuring a fictitious product in an effort that was quickly uncovered by MLB investigators, the New York Daily News has reported

Sooooo I guess I take back my previous comment about him owning it.

VR
08-19-2012, 12:36 PM
The testing is working since it is catching these guys. Not quite sure how Bud is responsible for players making the choice to use steroids.

It was explained this week how easy it is to beat the system. Players can only be tested at the park, and a cream application can be out of their system in 4 hours.

In other words.....to fail the test, you'd have to be pretty stupid. (which Melky then confirmed with his fake website ruse to try to cover his tracks)

Braun got off the hook because the league had unacceptable checks and balances, and made a mockery of the process and league.

Set up stricter rules, hire the right people to keep you up to speed with the science of steroids and there testing, and protect the BRAND of MLB.

It was on the cusp of becoming a mockery after the first 'roids blow up, I look to the commissioner to lead that charge.

Not just play the 'kids will be kids' card and hope to be held harmless.

Chip R
08-19-2012, 01:04 PM
It was explained this week how easy it is to beat the system. Players can only be tested at the park, and a cream application can be out of their system in 4 hours.

In other words.....to fail the test, you'd have to be pretty stupid. (which Melky then confirmed with his fake website ruse to try to cover his tracks)

Braun got off the hook because the league had unacceptable checks and balances, and made a mockery of the process and league.

Set up stricter rules, hire the right people to keep you up to speed with the science of steroids and there testing, and protect the BRAND of MLB.

It was on the cusp of becoming a mockery after the first 'roids blow up, I look to the commissioner to lead that charge.

Not just play the 'kids will be kids' card and hope to be held harmless.

Sure, but to prove testing is working, people have to fail the tests. Otherwise it looks like it's a coverup or the testing isn't working. Blaming Selig for Melky's positive test is like blaming the lawmakers for someone who commits murder.

Raisor
08-19-2012, 01:14 PM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8282185/san-francisco-giants-melky-cabrera-launched-fake-website-ruse-report-says



Sooooo I guess I take back my previous comment about him owning it.

You know what, I'm going to go ahead and say that this is both awesome and sad.

VR
08-19-2012, 01:17 PM
Sure, but to prove testing is working, people have to fail the tests. Otherwise it looks like it's a coverup or the testing isn't working. Blaming Selig for Melky's positive test is like blaming the lawmakers for someone who commits murder.

The fish rots from the head.

I never blamed Bud for Melky's result.

The fact that he won't do what it takes to stay ahead of this....yes, I do blame him. Goodell gets the fact that he has to protect the brand of the NFL. The brand of MLB has become watered down, and could be tragic if there is another steroid blowup.

dougdirt
08-19-2012, 01:17 PM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8282185/san-francisco-giants-melky-cabrera-launched-fake-website-ruse-report-says



Sooooo I guess I take back my previous comment about him owning it.

Melky never said he took something on purpose to cheat in his apology. He said he took something he shouldn't have.

hebroncougar
08-19-2012, 01:42 PM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8282185/san-francisco-giants-melky-cabrera-launched-fake-website-ruse-report-says



Sooooo I guess I take back my previous comment about him owning it.

Wow. That's absolutely ridiculous, and should get a minimum of a one year ban. I'd consider banning him for life. Conduct seriously detrimental to the game.

kaldaniels
08-19-2012, 01:55 PM
Could this mean Valtrex is an imaginary product as well, hatched by the Braun defense?

Brutus
08-19-2012, 05:22 PM
Melky never said he took something on purpose to cheat in his apology. He said he took something he shouldn't have.

That's splitting hairs.

Nonetheless, this website ruse makes me think less of his remorse.

dougdirt
08-19-2012, 05:26 PM
That's splitting hairs.

Nonetheless, this website ruse makes me think less of his remorse.

Not really. He could have been suggesting he took something he thought was legal, but didn't check with his team trainers first and it turns out it wasn't ok even though he bought it at say a GNC.

That is completely different than saying that he took something that he shouldn't have as he tried to gain an advantage. Now we probably aren't going to see anyone actually come out and ever say that, but the two things are completely different.

traderumor
08-19-2012, 05:29 PM
Not really. He could have been suggesting he took something he thought was legal, but didn't check with his team trainers first and it turns out it wasn't ok even though he bought it at say a GNC.

That is completely different than saying that he took something that he shouldn't have as he tried to gain an advantage. Now we probably aren't going to see anyone actually come out and ever say that, but the two things are completely different.Why in the world would you be attempting to defend someone stooping to the level of a fake website to protect his investment in himself? It's like taking OJ's side based on what you know now about Melky.

dougdirt
08-19-2012, 05:40 PM
Why in the world would you be attempting to defend someone stooping to the level of a fake website to protect his investment in himself? It's like taking OJ's side based on what you know now about Melky.

I think you are completely missing what I am saying. In no way am I defending him. I was simply saying that his original 'apology' didn't read to me that he actually apologized. I read it that he took something he shouldn't have, not that he purposefully took something he shouldn't have. That is all I was attempting to point out, that his apology never really sounded like an admitting to purposefully cheating.

Brutus
08-19-2012, 05:48 PM
Not really. He could have been suggesting he took something he thought was legal, but didn't check with his team trainers first and it turns out it wasn't ok even though he bought it at say a GNC.

That is completely different than saying that he took something that he shouldn't have as he tried to gain an advantage. Now we probably aren't going to see anyone actually come out and ever say that, but the two things are completely different.

You're reading way too much into this. He said he took something he shouldn't have taken. That's a mea culpa. You're really grasping to say he didn't outright come out and say he 'tried to gain an advantage.'

Of course, that he set up a website to promote a fake product as an alibi shows he was trying to gain an advantage, so all of this is moot. But at the same time, it seems he wasn't trying to deny he was looking to gain an advantage.

edabbs44
08-19-2012, 06:59 PM
Kind of like the Giambi apology. Worthless.

Melky isn't helping the cause against the skeptics.

mth123
08-19-2012, 08:31 PM
I've generally not been as judgmental about the roid boys as many others. I've kind of rationalized that these are just work-out warriors who got caught up in it all and went overboard. Melky's situation has a much more sinister element to it. I'm not sure how many are just workout guys who got carried away and how many are premeditated scams like Melky's seems to be.

The CBA says 50 games for getting caught, but I'd guess that Selig could tack on an additional suspension for the website and all that goes with it. I hope he does.

fearofpopvol1
08-20-2012, 01:08 AM
MLB should announce these things publicly, which gave San Francisco an unfair advantage. It's a very fair objection.

There is going to be continued cheating until MLB and the player's union agrees to offseason random drug testing. Guys can currently bulk up for 6 years before laying off the HGH.

Oops, I just realize I made a big typo. It should say 6 months (each year) instead of 6 years.

dougdirt
09-21-2012, 03:09 PM
Melky Cabrera asked and received to be removed from contention for the batting title.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/baseball-san-francisco-giants/giants-talk/EXCLUSIVE-Melky-Cabrera-ruled-ineligible?blockID=777029&feedID=10850

Cabrera asked to be removed from consideration on Wednesday, when his representatives sent a letter to union officials. The Players’ Association worked out a one-time amendment to Rule 10.22(a) with MLB officials on Thursday, one day after Commissioner Bud Selig said publicly that he was not likely to take action on the matter.

mattfeet
09-21-2012, 03:27 PM
If this was truly driven by Melky, good for him.

REDREAD
09-21-2012, 03:33 PM
I'd like to see the rules amended..
If you get a positive test, you are ineligible for the postseason that year, in addition to the 50 game ban.

That puts a greater incentive for teams to try to prevent steriod use.
The Giants benefited from Cabrera this year in the pennant race.
Likewise the A's benefited from Colon's cheating.

Doesn't seem right that if the Giants go deep into the playoffs, they get more help from a cheater returning to help them push to the WS. Mekly's contribution has tainted the championship race enough.

If you remove their postseason eligibility, there's a lesser incentive for the clubs to look the other way.
I still think some clubs bury their head in the sand about this. There's really no incentive for them not to look the other way..

oneupper
09-21-2012, 03:57 PM
I'd like to see the rules amended..
If you get a positive test, you are ineligible for the postseason that year, in addition to the 50 game ban.

That puts a greater incentive for teams to try to prevent steriod use.
The Giants benefited from Cabrera this year in the pennant race.
Likewise the A's benefited from Colon's cheating.

Doesn't seem right that if the Giants go deep into the playoffs, they get more help from a cheater returning to help them push to the WS. Mekly's contribution has tainted the championship race enough.

If you remove their postseason eligibility, there's a lesser incentive for the clubs to look the other way.
I still think some clubs bury their head in the sand about this. There's really no incentive for them not to look the other way..

If they had done this in 2010, Edinson Volquez would have been ineligible for the REDS 2010 postseason...and it might have been a good thing. Oh well.

dougdirt
09-21-2012, 04:00 PM
If they had done this in 2010, Edinson Volquez would have been ineligible for the REDS 2010 postseason...and it might have been a good thing. Oh well.

What, was the other pitcher going to get a hit in that game? Jay Bruce was the only Red to reach base in the only game that Volquez pitched in. The Reds weren't going to win that game. Yeah, he gave up all 4 runs that game before the second inning was over, but I don't think it mattered much on that night.

traderumor
09-21-2012, 04:03 PM
If they had done this in 2010, Edinson Volquez would have been ineligible for the REDS 2010 postseason...and it might have been a good thing. Oh well.The best thing about the 2012 postseason is that maybe folks will move on from the 2010 postseason. Two years of folks complaining about that is enough for me.

oneupper
09-21-2012, 04:09 PM
What, was the other pitcher going to get a hit in that game? Jay Bruce was the only Red to reach base in the only game that Volquez pitched in. The Reds weren't going to win that game. Yeah, he gave up all 4 runs that game before the second inning was over, but I don't think it mattered much on that night.

When you are dealing with timey-wimey stuff and going back to change things, ANY change is good, since it disrupts the time-space continuum:laugh:

@traderumor not complaining, just pointing out these events hit home also.

M2
09-22-2012, 01:18 PM
When you are dealing with timey-wimey stuff and going back to change things, ANY change is good, since it disrupts the time-space continuum:laugh:

When in doubt, start pushing buttons.

In space-time continuum Melky-related news, he has removed himself from batting title consideration (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/mlb/giants/story/2012/09/21/melky-cabrera-suspended-outfielder-removes-himself-from-batting-title/57821114/1). This gets my vote for silliest thing ever. There is no consideration and they can try to pretend a one-year rule change is going to be taken seriously. Yet at the end of the day it's math, and if the math says Melky is the batting champion then he's the champion.

VR
09-22-2012, 01:23 PM
When in doubt, start pushing buttons.

In space-time continuum Melky-related news, he has removed himself from batting title consideration (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/mlb/giants/story/2012/09/21/melky-cabrera-suspended-outfielder-removes-himself-from-batting-title/57821114/1). This gets my vote for silliest thing ever. There is no consideration and they can try to pretend a one-year rule change is going to be taken seriously. Yet at the end of the day it's math, and if the math says Melky is the batting champion then he's the champion.

I too, am removing myself from consideration for the NL batting title.