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View Full Version : Lineup once Votto returns!



Kcbuckeye22
08-20-2012, 11:13 AM
Pick your Dusty Baker specials!

Here's my guess....
Phillips
Stubbs
Votto
Luddy
Bruce
Frazier
Cozart
Hanny/Mes

swaisuc
08-20-2012, 11:16 AM
Yep, I think yours is right. The only other one I could see is flipping Cozart and Stubbs.

FWIW, I might have put Frazier/Rolen in the 6 spot. Regardless of the distribution I think we'll see 3b bats 6th most nights.

'69 & Vine
08-20-2012, 11:32 AM
Yep, I think yours is right. The only other one I could see is flipping Cozart and Stubbs.

FWIW, I might have put Frazier/Rolen in the 6 spot. Regardless of the distribution I think we'll see 3b bats 6th most nights.

I think flipping Stubbs w/Cozart would be ideal, with the lineup in the OP.

Trajinous
08-20-2012, 11:40 AM
Agreed. It's obvious, Phillips needs to be leading off while Stubbs has been doing well in the 2-hole. Now it's up to Baker.....

BEETTLEBUG
08-20-2012, 11:51 AM
True flip stubbs with cozart but Baker won't do it. that way.!

Biff Pocoroba
08-20-2012, 11:55 AM
I agree with flipping Cozart and Stubbs. Cozart has been far from great, but I look at Stubbs and his 12Ks and 1BB over the past ten games...and well...that's not cutting it.

BungleBengals
08-20-2012, 12:19 PM
My ideal lineup: (on days Hanigan catches)

Phillips
Hanigan
Votto
Ludwick
Bruce
Frazier
Cozart
Stubbs
Pitcher

What I believe Dusty will do:

Cozart
Stubbs
Votto
Phillips
Ludwick
Bruce
Frazier
Hanigan
Pitcher

Stray
08-20-2012, 12:22 PM
Phillips
Stubbs
Votto
Ludwick
Bruce
Rolen
Cozart
Hanigan/Mes
Pitcher

Votto will need off days, Ludwick needs off days, and Rolen definitely needs off days. Rotate them around with Frazier and he still gets a lot of playing time.

IamRV
08-20-2012, 02:01 PM
What I would do:

Phillips
Votto
Frazier
Ludwick
Bruce
Hanoraco
Cozart
Pitcher
Stubbs

What Dusty will do:

Cozart
Stubbs
Votto
Phillips
Ludwick
Bruce
Rolen
Hanoraco
Pitcher

Biff Pocoroba
08-20-2012, 02:15 PM
The only thing truly etched in stone is that Votto returns to the three-hole. That is sacrosanct.

RedsBrick
08-20-2012, 02:30 PM
The only thing truly etched in stone is that Votto returns to the three-hole. That is sacrosanct.

True that. As it should be.

Mitri
08-20-2012, 03:28 PM
Any lineup that gets Phillips into the 1 or 2 hole is an improvement. Ludwick/Frazier can rotate in the cleanup spot and Frazier/Rolen the 6 spot.

Cozart's power plays well in the 7 spot, so it will probably be Stubbs/Heisey batting second. I'd love to see Stubbs' role relegated to starts vs. lefties and late-inning defense, but that is wishful thinking. It'd be great to see Paul or Heisey tested more in CF down the stretch, as their OB skills vs. righties would be very useful come playoff time.

Kcbuckeye22
08-20-2012, 08:38 PM
I'm definitely up for Votto getting as much rest as he needs so he can be 100% for the playoffs. Frazier rotating around is the key to this team staying healthy.

OGB
08-20-2012, 08:55 PM
Dusty is notoriously stubborn and ham fisted with his lineups. That said, I would like to think Ludwick's performance lately leaves him entrenched in the four hole when Votto gets back. From there, it only makes sense to lead off BPhil. Then the kicker becomes putting Cozart in the two spot over Stubbs. Recall how much Zack benefitted from hitting directly in front of Joey earlier in the year.

Phillips
Cozart
Votto
Ludwick
Bruce
Frazier
Hanigan
Stubbs

scott91575
08-21-2012, 08:02 AM
Dusty is notoriously stubborn and ham fisted with his lineups. That said, I would like to think Ludwick's performance lately leaves him entrenched in the four hole when Votto gets back. From there, it only makes sense to lead off BPhil. Then the kicker becomes putting Cozart in the two spot over Stubbs. Recall how much Zack benefitted from hitting directly in front of Joey earlier in the year.

Phillips
Cozart
Votto
Ludwick
Bruce
Frazier
Hanigan
Stubbs

Catcher bats 8th man. It's one of Dusty's rules. Even when he talked about Stubbs batting 7th his response was "if he steals then they will walk the catcher." Not the 8 man, the catcher. It's set in stone.

knuckleballah22
08-21-2012, 10:35 AM
What I would do:

Phillips
Votto
Frazier
Ludwick
Bruce
Hanoraco
Cozart
Pitcher
Stubbs

What Dusty will do:

Cozart
Stubbs
Votto
Phillips
Ludwick
Bruce
Rolen
Hanoraco
Pitcher

lol yeah thats spot on

BungleBengals
08-21-2012, 02:41 PM
Catcher bats 8th man. It's one of Dusty's rules. Even when he talked about Stubbs batting 7th his response was "if he steals then they will walk the catcher." Not the 8 man, the catcher. It's set in stone.

I don't understand how you can bat Hanigan 8th. I know it is Dusty's rule, but the guy rarely strikes out and is a very discplined hitter. He is batting around .280 (one of the best on the team) and his RBIs would be so much higher if he could get someone on based in front of him. I think the 2 hole would be good because he could bat in whoever leads off and get on base for Votto to bat in.

jback76
08-21-2012, 03:38 PM
I don't understand how you can bat Hanigan 8th. I know it is Dusty's rule, but the guy rarely strikes out and is a very discplined hitter. He is batting around .280 (one of the best on the team) and his RBIs would be so much higher if he could get someone on based in front of him. I think the 2 hole would be good because he could bat in whoever leads off and get on base for Votto to bat in.

No big league manager will ever bat a slow footed catcher like Hanny in the 2 hole. I'ts not only that he's a catcher, he's just to slow. He would indeed clog the bases. Hanny would single and not score on a Votto double. That's why Stubbs is hitting 2nd.

BungleBengals
08-21-2012, 05:16 PM
No big league manager will ever bat a slow footed catcher like Hanny in the 2 hole. I'ts not only that he's a catcher, he's just to slow. He would indeed clog the bases. Hanny would single and not score on a Votto double. That's why Stubbs is hitting 2nd.

I do not know where you got the notion that Hanigan is slow. I would say that has average speed. He is no Ramon Hernandez or Sean Casey. He would at least be on base for Votto unlike Stubbs.

Jdattilo
08-21-2012, 05:40 PM
Ryan is one of the slowest baseball players I have ever watched. It amazes me just how slow he is.

jback76
08-21-2012, 07:38 PM
I do not know where you got the notion that Hanigan is slow. I would say that has average speed. He is no Ramon Hernandez or Sean Casey. He would at least be on base for Votto unlike Stubbs.

Hanigan is slower than your average beer league softball player. He runs hard he just doesn't get there very quick.

fielder's choice
08-22-2012, 01:44 PM
Phillips
Frazier
Votto
Ludwick
Bruce
Cozart
Stubbs/Heisey
Hanigan

BungleBengals
08-22-2012, 01:51 PM
Phillips
Frazier
Votto
Ludwick
Bruce
Cozart
Stubbs/Heisey
Hanigan

I like this lineup!


Hanigan is slower than your average beer league softball player. He runs hard he just doesn't get there very quick.


Okay, I will give you that Hanigan isn't the fastest player, but he at least can knock in Cozart or sacrifice him over better than Stubbs. Plus I would rather have Hanigan on base for Votto than watch Stubbs strikeout and Votto gets up with 2 outs.

MrRedLegger
08-22-2012, 01:51 PM
I really hope Phillips bats leadoff once Votto returns because Ludwick has very much proven he could fill the cleanup spot during his absence. I still think Stubbs will bat 2nd because of his speed. The Reds have been shut out only twice this season which is low compared to the rest of baseball.

Most lineups I see on these forums are built for potentially scoring a lot of runs, I get it. But it could also allow for many shutouts in my opinion.

Dusty's lineups minimize being shut out, even if it is only a few runs, and with our pitching this year that's all we need to win a game. His lineups also have obtained a significant lead in the NL Central.

IamRV
08-22-2012, 02:06 PM
..
Most lineups I see on these forums are built for potentially scoring a lot of runs, I get it. But it could also allow for many shutouts in my opinion.

Dusty's lineups minimize being shut out, even if it is only a few runs, and with our pitching this year that's all we need to win a game...

Really interested in your further thoughts on this.

BungleBengals
08-22-2012, 03:42 PM
Most lineups I see on these forums are built for potentially scoring a lot of runs, I get it. But it could also allow for many shutouts in my opinion.

Dusty's lineups minimize being shut out, even if it is only a few runs, and with our pitching this year that's all we need to win a game. His lineups also have obtained a significant lead in the NL Central.

I am not knocking you or Dusty, but our lineup needs to be set up to score a lot of runs. Yes, we have rarely been shut out this year, but I do not think that is because of the lineups, a lot of our runs are produced by homeruns.


Look at the Cardinals, they have one of the top offenses in the game. Their lineup is built that way. Holliday and Beltran are both Top 3 in RBIs this season. We have Bruce in the Top 10, but that is because he has guys who get on base in front of him all the time.

I do not see why we do not try to change the lineup to produce more runs. Especially with our bullpen falling apart and some of our starters are starting to slump a bit too. We are going to need to score more runs if we want to go deep in the playoffs and I do not see how batting Stubbs in the 2 hole is good for offensive production. Yes, he has speed, but he also gets K'd a lot and is questionable when it comes to bunting. How does it make sense to let Stubbs bat 4 times and only let Frazier and Hanigan bat 3 times in a game? Both Frazier and Hanigan are close to .300 hitters and usually make contact which is what you need if you can get Cozart on base. Plus with those guys on base you can have guys like Votto, Ludwick, Bruce, and Phillips drive them in.

On a final note: How can you pinch hit Cairo, a .150 hitter who shows no signs of improvement, when you have Paul, a .300 hitter who has pop and some speed?

IamRV
08-22-2012, 06:35 PM
On average the 3 or 4 batters at the top of the lineup will get an additional plate appearance EVERY GAME over the rest of the lineup. Now my question would be - which 3 or 4 guys in our lineup would you rather give that plate appearance to?

Given that, does it make any sense to bat two of your worst batters in these three or four positions at the top of the order.

I know who I'd choose and it dang sure wouldn't be Stubbs, Cozart, Valdez, Cairo, Mes, Rolen or any of our pitchers.

faffy42
08-22-2012, 06:41 PM
Phillips
Cozart
Frazier
Votto
Ludwick
Hanigan
Bruce
Stubbs
Pitcher

jback76
08-22-2012, 07:45 PM
I like this lineup!




Okay, I will give you that Hanigan isn't the fastest player, but he at least can knock in Cozart or sacrifice him over better than Stubbs. Plus I would rather have Hanigan on base for Votto than watch Stubbs strikeout and Votto gets up with 2 outs.

You've actually got some pretty good points. I'm just a Mesoraco guy, Hanny would probably do fine in the 2 hole. I would like to see Phillips lead off though, and I think we will when Votto comes back.