PDA

View Full Version : Rays might put David Price on the block this winter?



Dan
08-21-2012, 11:49 AM
MLBTR: (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/08/rosenthal-on-swisher-brewers-dodgers.html)


Could the Rays trade David Price to the Rangers for a package of players built around Elvis Andrus and Martin Perez this winter? Rosenthal speculates about the possibility, but there’s no indication the sides are discussing a deal.

What would it take for the Reds to land him? Hamilton and Bailey to start?

Homer Bailey
08-21-2012, 11:53 AM
This doesn't even qualify as a rumor.

dougdirt
08-21-2012, 11:54 AM
MLBTR: (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/08/rosenthal-on-swisher-brewers-dodgers.html)



What would it take for the Reds to land him? Hamilton and Bailey to start?

My first thought was why would they be interested in Martin Perez as a 'center piece' with his 4.1 walks/9ip and 4.9 strikeouts/9ip in AAA this year? He has a good arm and he is pretty young, but those aren't exactly the results you want to see from someone who is one of the main parts to a trade for a legit ace.

My guess is that it would take a Major League starter (position or pitcher) and several top prospects.

Dan
08-21-2012, 12:00 PM
This doesn't even qualify as a rumor.

A boy can dream, can't he? :D

Imagine a rotation next year of

Cueto
Latos
Price
Chapman
Arroyo

Sick

Wonderful Monds
08-21-2012, 01:10 PM
It'd be cool to get him, but I don't think we necessarily need him. If we could get him without trading Billy Hamilton, I'd be interested, but we likely couldn't. I also wouldn't trade Mesoraco or Frazier for him. Not sure the Rays are a fit anymore.

Benihana
08-21-2012, 01:47 PM
MLBTR: (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/08/rosenthal-on-swisher-brewers-dodgers.html)



What would it take for the Reds to land him? Hamilton and Bailey to start?

With Upton likely leaving via FA, I believe they'll need a CF in addition to a SS. So how about giving them their choice of:

Stubbs/Heisey
Bailey/Leake
Cozart/DiDi

and whatever prospect they want not named Hamilton or Stephenson for David Price.

Benihana
08-21-2012, 01:48 PM
It'd be cool to get him, but I don't think we necessarily need him. If we could get him without trading Billy Hamilton, I'd be interested, but we likely couldn't. I also wouldn't trade Mesoraco or Frazier for him. Not sure the Rays are a fit anymore.

Agree with this, although I'd have to at least consider a deal for Frazier or Mez.

camisadelgolf
08-21-2012, 02:06 PM
The Reds flat-out can't afford David Price. Next year's team will cost $80-90M, and provided they stay together, every team after that will cost a little bit more. And if you thought it decimated the farm to obtain Latos, just imagine how much Price would cost. Plus I think the competition for Price would be much higher, which could drive the price up even more.

Here's next year's team and salaries:
17.00 Joey Votto
10.00 Brandon Phillips
8.00 Bronson Arroyo
7.50 Jay Bruce
7.40 Johnny Cueto
4.50 Sean Marshall
3.10 Nick Masset
2.05 Ryan Hanigan
2.00 Aroldis Chapman
1.20 Jose Arredondo
0.50 Zack Cozart
0.50 Todd Frazier
0.50 Sam LeCure
0.50 Devin Mesoraco
0.50 Xavier Paul
65.25

arb Homer Bailey
arb Bill Bray
arb Chris Heisey
arb Mat Latos
arb Mike Leake
arb Logan Ondrusek
arb Alfredo Simon
arb Drew Stubbs
arb Wilson Valdez

Bill Bray non-tendered
call up Henry Rodriguez (or sign a cheap veteran version of him)
re-sign Ryan Ludwick

Wonderful Monds
08-21-2012, 02:27 PM
Agree with this, although I'd have to at least consider a deal for Frazier or Mez.

Not me. Those guys will be starting players for us for years to come that we don't have replacements for, IMO.

REDREAD
08-21-2012, 02:51 PM
The Reds flat-out can't afford David Price.

No disrespect, but the Reds might be able to afford him.. it kind of depends.
He made 4.35 million this year, and is eligible for arbitration. I think it's his first year of arb.. I guess it's a crapshoot what his salary will be, but if the Reds got him, they could trade Homer for some salary relief.

Going deep into the playoffs makes a team a lot of money.

That said, I kind of think it's a pipe dream to get Price.

Just one of Leake/Homer obviously is not going to get it done.
I'm also reluctant to trade Mez, Frasier or Cozart.
Maybe I'm nuts, but I would be hesitant to trade Stubbs as well (I really did not enjoy all those years of running out replacement level CFers)
I don't want to trade Billy Hamilton either.
Doesn't leave much to send to Tampa, does it? :)

I imagine some big spending team is going to empty out their farm for Price if he's available.

camisadelgolf
08-21-2012, 02:54 PM
No disrespect, but the Reds might be able to afford him.. it kind of depends.
He made 4.35 million this year, and is eligible for arbitration. I think it's his first year of arb.. I guess it's a crapshoot what his salary will be, but if the Reds got him, they could trade Homer for some salary relief.

Going deep into the playoffs makes a team a lot of money.

That said, I kind of think it's a pipe dream to get Price.

Just one of Leake/Homer obviously is not going to get it done.
I'm also reluctant to trade Mez, Frasier or Cozart.
Maybe I'm nuts, but I would be hesitant to trade Stubbs as well (I really did not enjoy all those years of running out replacement level CFers)
I don't want to trade Billy Hamilton either.
Doesn't leave much to send to Tampa, does it? :)

I imagine some big spending team is going to empty out their farm for Price if he's available.
Why would the Rays trade David Price if they're getting very little salary relief? And Price will be eligible for his 2nd year of arbitration, and I'd be shocked if he didn't get at least $5MM next year.

REDREAD
08-21-2012, 02:58 PM
Why would the Rays trade David Price if they're getting very little salary relief? And Price will be eligible for his 2nd year of arbitration, and I'd be shocked if he didn't get at least $5MM next year.

Solid points.. I do think the trade is a pipe dream, because another team will ante up more prospects/rookies than the Reds will.

I guess I was just speaking hypothetically.. Maybe Homer doesn't go to the Rays, but he could easily be traded to another club for prospects.

If for some reason, the Reds were able to put together a package of prospects for Price, they could probably fit him into the budget, at least for 2-3 years. That was the only point I was trying to make.
Sure, the core team is getting more expensive, but after 2013, Masset and Arroyo are likely gone..

Brutus
08-21-2012, 03:01 PM
Why trade for David Price when you have an impact starter already waiting in the wings?

dougdirt
08-21-2012, 03:48 PM
Why trade for David Price when you have an impact starter already waiting in the wings?

Well, because David Price is essentially what you hope that guy waiting in the wings can be one day, but he won't be that in 2013. He won't be that in 2014. Chapman isn't going to be able to have a full seasons work load of innings for several years if the Reds treat him like everyone else and gradually ramp him up.

Benihana
08-21-2012, 03:48 PM
The Reds flat-out can't afford David Price. Next year's team will cost $80-90M, and provided they stay together, every team after that will cost a little bit more. And if you thought it decimated the farm to obtain Latos, just imagine how much Price would cost. Plus I think the competition for Price would be much higher, which could drive the price up even more.

The Reds couldn't afford Joey Votto.
After Votto, the Reds couldn't afford Brandon Phillips.
Sorry, but I don't think anyone is equipped to make that statement- at least not for a guy who will likely make less than $10MM for the next two years.

They might not be able to "afford" the prospects that it may cost to get him (ie Hamilton and/or Stephenson), but I don't think anyone can say definitively that the Reds "flat-out can't afford" anyone on a payroll basis, especially a guy who is currently making $4MM.

Brutus
08-21-2012, 04:04 PM
Well, because David Price is essentially what you hope that guy waiting in the wings can be one day, but he won't be that in 2013. He won't be that in 2014. Chapman isn't going to be able to have a full seasons work load of innings for several years if the Reds treat him like everyone else and gradually ramp him up.

He could be that in 2014. They could get him 150-160 innings next season and then he'd be able to pitch 200 in the following year.

Not really that difficult. The plan was for Chapman to go 150 this year. It would only take an additional year to build him up to a full season.

dougdirt
08-21-2012, 04:26 PM
He could be that in 2014. They could get him 150-160 innings next season and then he'd be able to pitch 200 in the following year.

Not really that difficult. The plan was for Chapman to go 150 this year. It would only take an additional year to build him up to a full season.

So he could be at 180 in 2014, but worthless in the playoffs because he would be shut down.

Brutus
08-21-2012, 04:53 PM
So he could be at 180 in 2014, but worthless in the playoffs because he would be shut down.

You're assuming they only jump him 30 innings. There's no guarantee it wouldn't be higher. You're also assuming they wouldn't take steps to stretch him out longer.

cincrazy
08-21-2012, 04:58 PM
Chapman started in Cuba. And he isn't some 21 year old pup. We can't be reckless with his innings increase, but I see no reason he can't throw 200 innings in 2014.

Wonderful Monds
08-21-2012, 05:08 PM
You're assuming they only jump him 30 innings. There's no guarantee it wouldn't be higher. You're also assuming they wouldn't take steps to stretch him out longer.

Yes, we are (thankfully) not the Washington Nationals.

dougdirt
08-21-2012, 05:15 PM
Yes, we are (thankfully) not the Washington Nationals.

Actually, we have been just like them in the past for the most part, limiting guys to 30 inning increases. It is the smart thing to do and teams know it. That is why they almost all do it.

And yes, Chapman started in Cuba. He topped out at 125 innings pitched in a single season.

RedlegJake
08-21-2012, 05:22 PM
Well, because David Price is essentially what you hope that guy waiting in the wings can be one day, but he won't be that in 2013. He won't be that in 2014. Chapman isn't going to be able to have a full seasons work load of innings for several years if the Reds treat him like everyone else and gradually ramp him up.


Exactly. And Price is price controlled for a couple years yet. The price I'd be worried about is the price in prospects. I'd be willing to start a discussion with Chapman actually for the reason Doug stated. Then add one or two prospects.

Brutus
08-21-2012, 05:23 PM
Actually, we have been just like them in the past for the most part, limiting guys to 30 inning increases. It is the smart thing to do and teams know it. That is why they almost all do it.

And yes, Chapman started in Cuba. He topped out at 125 innings pitched in a single season.

Like everything in life, there are exceptions. The Reds use it as a general guideline, not a hard-and-fast rule.

Wonderful Monds
08-21-2012, 05:44 PM
Actually, we have been just like them in the past for the most part, limiting guys to 30 inning increases. It is the smart thing to do and teams know it. That is why they almost all do it.

And yes, Chapman started in Cuba. He topped out at 125 innings pitched in a single season.

You'll have to refresh my memory on that, because honestly its alluding me right at the moment when the team has done that.

dougdirt
08-21-2012, 05:53 PM
You'll have to refresh my memory on that, because honestly its alluding me right at the moment when the team has done that.

They have limited all of their young pitchers. In the Majors it has really only come up with Leake because the rest of the guys had a good base to work with from their minor league time. But they limit minor leaguers every year so they don't increase their workload. Just like every other team in baseball does. Just like the Reds were going to do this year had they stuck with their original plan to use Chapman as a starter.

Wonderful Monds
08-21-2012, 05:56 PM
They have limited all of their young pitchers. In the Majors it has really only come up with Leake because the rest of the guys had a good base to work with from their minor league time. But they limit minor leaguers every year so they don't increase their workload. Just like every other team in baseball does. Just like the Reds were going to do this year had they stuck with their original plan to use Chapman as a starter.

Well sure, but those have been minor leaguers, not a player they would consider a major contributor to a winning team.

I would be willing to bet anything that the Reds would not shut down a successful Chapman during a pennant run.

Brutus
08-21-2012, 05:59 PM
They have limited all of their young pitchers. In the Majors it has really only come up with Leake because the rest of the guys had a good base to work with from their minor league time. But they limit minor leaguers every year so they don't increase their workload. Just like every other team in baseball does. Just like the Reds were going to do this year had they stuck with their original plan to use Chapman as a starter.

I think it's fair to say there's a lot more latitude with exceptions in the majors than there is in the minors. In development, there's no reason for a major league club to push it too hard as the player isn't likely ready to contribute for a few years anyhow. But in the majors, when you have a talent like Chapman, there's going to naturally be more wiggle room on that because the player is helping a club win now.

Stephen Strasburg is a case in point. He pitched 120 innings combined between minors & majors in 2010, and only pitched 48 innings last year before his injury. He's currently on pace for about 180 innings then they're likely to either shut him down or pitch him out of the pen in the playoffs. Regardless, he's going to wind up jumping up at least 50-60 innings from his previous career high.

As I said, with everything in life, there are exceptions. Thirty innings is a guideline, not a rule. And clubs would be much more likely to go over that number in the majors than in the minors when developing players.

oregonred
08-21-2012, 10:56 PM
What a disgrace for a team that deserves some great fan support. The AL wild card leading Rays, making a run at the AL East lead, had less than 10K last night and barely hit 10K tonight...

Rays will probably have to deal Price in the offseason due to cost cutting. No later than end of 2013 at the latest.

Wonderful Monds
08-21-2012, 11:10 PM
What a disgrace for a team that deserves some great fan support. The AL wild card leading Rays, making a run at the AL East lead, had less than 10K last night and barely hit 10K tonight...

Rays will probably have to deal Price in the offseason due to cost cutting. No later than end of 2013 at the latest.

It is a shame. I like the Rays and was glad when they turned it all around a few years ago. Hate to see that little support for them down there, but they really need a new stadium in a better location. I've only been to Tampa once and even I know the Trop is a pain to get to.

Sad part is, that location might not be in Tampa or Florida at all.

oregonred
08-21-2012, 11:19 PM
Yes the Trop is in a horrible location, but still it is ridiculous. The stadium needs to be out off I-4 NEast towards Orlando or in downtown Tampa. But 10K for a team this exciting with the track record of winning over the last 4-5 years is inexcusable.

And to think the SF Giants were about to pack up shop and move to that complete debacle of a situation.

Vottomatic
08-22-2012, 08:45 AM
The Reds flat-out can't afford David Price. Next year's team will cost $80-90M, and provided they stay together, every team after that will cost a little bit more. And if you thought it decimated the farm to obtain Latos, just imagine how much Price would cost. Plus I think the competition for Price would be much higher, which could drive the price up even more.

Here's next year's team and salaries:
17.00 Joey Votto
10.00 Brandon Phillips
8.00 Bronson Arroyo
7.50 Jay Bruce
7.40 Johnny Cueto
4.50 Sean Marshall
3.10 Nick Masset
2.05 Ryan Hanigan
2.00 Aroldis Chapman
1.20 Jose Arredondo
0.50 Zack Cozart
0.50 Todd Frazier
0.50 Sam LeCure
0.50 Devin Mesoraco
0.50 Xavier Paul
65.25

arb Homer Bailey
arb Bill Bray
arb Chris Heisey
arb Mat Latos
arb Mike Leake
arb Logan Ondrusek
arb Alfredo Simon
arb Drew Stubbs
arb Wilson Valdez

Bill Bray non-tendered
call up Henry Rodriguez (or sign a cheap veteran version of him)
re-sign Ryan Ludwick

Rolen and Cairo come off the books at season's end.
Arroyo comes off after 2013.
I think Masset will be hitting the road this offseason by trade.
Bray will be more than likely be gone.
I could see Bailey traded in either this offseason or the next. His pitching doesn't fly well in a small confines of GABP. Alot will depend on the development of Corcino and Cingrani.
I really see Stubbs being dealt this offseason too, or maybe the next if Hamilton appears ready. How hard is it to replace a .225 hitting CFer?
Heisey might finally be dealt. Xavier Paul may be signed as that utility OFer.
I see H-Rod or Gregorius filling the Cairo role next season.

This upcoming offseason could be really interesting.

And I thought I read that a new TV deal is forthcoming in 2014 which should be a pretty good financial upgrade to the old deal.

MikeThierry
08-22-2012, 03:09 PM
What could you see getting in return for Stubbs? I'd imagine his stock is way down right now.

RedsMan3203
08-22-2012, 03:12 PM
I can see Rolen moving into the Cario role..... Just not sure if Rolen see's that or not.....

bellhead
08-23-2012, 12:24 PM
Baily and Leake for Price, throw in Didi and Stubbs if we need to... That's 3 major league players, 2 pitchers who are under team control for several more years plus a middle of the road CF, a promising AAA short stop. That's as good an offer as they will ever get.

Cueto, Latos, Price, Arroyo, and Chapman would give the Reds a 100 win season next year. All but Arroyo under control until 2015...

We will probably need a Brett Tomko type to come in and throw an occasional game as a fifth starter. Chapman will also need to skip 2 or 3 starts when he can and with the Brett Tomko type this should get him to the playoffs.