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Red Buckeye
08-23-2012, 02:10 PM
I know there is an old thread in the ORG but since I'm not one of the privledged ones I can't post in there.

Anyways I watched "Catching Hell" last night for the second time and I must say Cubs fans are total jackas*es for the way they treated Bartman.

Why weren't they mad at Alex Gonzalez for his inexcusable error that would have gotten them out of the inning?

If I was Bartman when I was being escorted out by security I would have yelled back at all the hecklers "You would have done the same thing!", since at that point he had the protection of the security.

And I also think it's funny how most Cubs fans pretty much gave up all hope after that loss, even though they could have taken care of business the next game with a win.

I would like to think if something like this happened to the Reds that us fans wouldn't be negative like the Cubs fans. I for one would just believe we will win the next game.

I also was surpsrised to hear Dusty make the classless remark after the game "He must've been a Marlins fan." Real classy Dusty!

I like Dusty for the most part and can understand why he'd be frusterated, but man calling the guy a Marlins fan when ANYONE would try and go for the same foul ball is a little low.

And really when it comes down to it you have to put some blame on Alou for acting like a little child after he couldn't get the ball.

Anyways I find the whole subject quite interesting and wanted to get others opinions on it.

TSJ55
08-23-2012, 02:54 PM
I agree with most everything you say, BUT not "anyone" would go after that foul ball. While obviously the minority, considering the lengths that full grown men go to for a freaking baseball on a nightly basis, a few might have some freaking sense and give their player a shot at it. I realize haveing some baseball sense while sitting in the stands is asking quite a lot though.

Trajinous
08-23-2012, 03:29 PM
I recently watched "Catching Hell" too and what a great documentary. It does a great job of viewing it from all angles and connecting it to Buckner was great. It was a great study on mob mentality.

I don't think Dusty's Marlin comment was malicious or out of line. As they showed, Dusty didn't see it. He was too far in the dugout and it seemed like a humorous answer.

I just feel awful because Bartman had NO impact on the game. You're right, people should blame Agon if they wanted a scapegoat. Again, it wasn't even the last game! It just make Cubs fans look bad and weak.

BurgervilleBuck
08-23-2012, 03:56 PM
Again, it wasn't even the last game! It just make Cubs fans look bad and weak.
It was the same thing with Buckner. They had one more game that they could've won. But, unfortunately, fans like the Cubs and BoSox have like to play the victim card, that their all haunted by some spectre or curse when, really, they just weren't the best team that year.

texasdave
08-23-2012, 04:33 PM
If he had reached out of the stands then maybe there would be some room to complain. He did nothing wrong. Just my opinion.

dubc47834
08-23-2012, 04:37 PM
I know there is an old thread in the ORG but since I'm not one of the privledged ones I can't post in there.

Anyways I watched "Catching Hell" last night for the second time and I must say Cubs fans are total jackas*es for the way they treated Bartman.

Why weren't they mad at Alex Gonzalez for his inexcusable error that would have gotten them out of the inning?

If I was Bartman when I was being escorted out by security I would have yelled back at all the hecklers "You would have done the same thing!", since at that point he had the protection of the security.

And I also think it's funny how most Cubs fans pretty much gave up all hope after that loss, even though they could have taken care of business the next game with a win.

I would like to think if something like this happened to the Reds that us fans wouldn't be negative like the Cubs fans. I for one would just believe we will win the next game.
I also was surpsrised to hear Dusty make the classless remark after the game "He must've been a Marlins fan." Real classy Dusty!

I like Dusty for the most part and can understand why he'd be frusterated, but man calling the guy a Marlins fan when ANYONE would try and go for the same foul ball is a little low.

And really when it comes down to it you have to put some blame on Alou for acting like a little child after he couldn't get the ball.

Anyways I find the whole subject quite interesting and wanted to get others opinions on it.

With the way people react just here in the Sundeck to the way Dusty manages and how players play, I think there would be people crucifying whoever done it. How many??? I would like to think it wouldn't be too many tho. Hopefully I am wrong, hope we never find out also.

Trajinous
08-23-2012, 05:45 PM
With the way people react just here in the Sundeck to the way Dusty manages and how players play, I think there would be people crucifying whoever done it. How many??? I would like to think it wouldn't be too many tho. Hopefully I am wrong, hope we never find out also.

I think there would be a few but not in that quantity, I would like to think though. I am a fairly young Reds fan so I'm used to the Reds losing. I remember that 99 season vividly. I don't remember Reds fans or media blaming an scapegoat after the lose.

I get a feeling fans blame players or managers in Cincinnati. I don't have any recollection of any curses or myths where outside forces caused the Red's to lose. Am I wrong? From the fans I grew up with and know, they blame bad scouting, signings, performance, etc.

DocRed
08-23-2012, 07:14 PM
Anybody that blames Bartman, a diehard Cubs fan for his whole life for any part of the disaster that are the Cubs, is an idiot.

Phoenix2
08-23-2012, 07:48 PM
Dusty could have, and should have, diffused the whole situation with a comment like, "hey we have to execute on the field, we didn't lose the game because of a foul ball in the stands". Instead Baker threw that guy under the bus. Bartman suffered further as a result.

MrRedLegger
08-23-2012, 07:51 PM
...I remember that 99 season vividly. I don't remember Reds fans or media blaming an scapegoat after the lose...

There was no scapegoat for that game. We didn't get a guy on base until the 9th inning.

What is eerie is that Sam Sianis, the nephew of Billy Sianis (who was ejected from the ballpark in the '45 World Series for bringing his goat to the game and hexed the Cubs with the infamous "Curse of the Billy Goat") tried to bring a goat into the stadium the exact same day as the Steve Bartman incident, and they wouldn't let the goat in.

Cubs fans have historically been nasty. Anywhere from throwing a homerun ball back on the field to, whom Lee Elia (manager of the Cubs from '82-'83) refers to as "unemployed c*** suckers". You can read the entire article/rant here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Elia) and it's intense.

Here (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8S0 CDtEz_Bo&ei=trU2UMHAEIGC8QSkxoF4&usg=AFQjCNGF_78WrhUbQg7elQIoFOBthRzHKQ) is a link to videos of it. Make sure there are no kids in the room.

They haven't had much success recently so it's died down and they're at least cordial, but a hint of playoff implications will set most of them off. A lot of them are idiots.

Steve Bartman did nothing wrong, but the fans were so ridiculous that the Illinois governer offered him the witness protection program in order to protect him.

He's also so ashamed of what he did that he has turned down over six-figures worth of money to do various endorsements/promotions.

Catching Hell is an incredible documentary and I suggest everyone watch it.

Sorry for the long post, Go Reds.

cooperlamar
08-23-2012, 08:37 PM
I recently spoke to a Cubs fan about the Bartman situation and how poorly the fans treated Bartman. She basically said he deserved everything he got. It was unbelievable how irrational her (and it appears a lot of Cubs fans) thinking is.

texasdave
08-23-2012, 10:58 PM
x

BluegrassRedleg
08-24-2012, 12:54 AM
As for your original "Why aren't they made at Gonzalez?" question, I believe it's because it's never been about baseball in Wrigley. It's about getting drunk, acting a fool, and screaming for Sammy Sosa to 'roid one out of the park one last time before every one goes home. (Which actually happened my last trip to Wrigley. After Sammy's final AB around the 8th inning, they all left.) Marty has Cubs fans nailed = clueless.

LexRedsFan
08-24-2012, 01:55 AM
Moises Alou made that situation what it was, in my opinion. If he reacts differently I don't think the fans geek out so much.

scott91575
08-24-2012, 04:54 AM
While Cubs fans are nuts, let's not forget Cincinnati fans can get a little unruly too. I was at this game.

Dave Pallone:The Infamous Altercation with Pete Rose - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IScx2xAgV4g)

I remember a couple of the Mets infielders wore batting helmets in the field after the game resumed (I believe it was about a 30 minute delay while they cleaned everything up). Hernandez almost got nailed with a cup of ice when he came out to take first base.