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View Full Version : Mesoraco reinstated - optioned to AAA; Hoover recalled



Spider Tre
08-23-2012, 04:55 PM
@Jamieblog - #Reds C Devin Mesoraco today was reinstated from the suspension list and optioned to Class AAA Louisville...J.J. Hoover recalled from AAA.

osuredleg24
08-23-2012, 04:58 PM
wha?

Larkin88
08-23-2012, 04:58 PM
Given the ten day minimum when you are optioned, would this by rule mean that he will not be eligible for the postseason roster, if he's not on the 25-man on August 31st?

Girevik
08-23-2012, 05:00 PM
Wow, didn't see that coming.

texasdave
08-23-2012, 05:01 PM
Can't have too much Veteran Creaminess.

Stray
08-23-2012, 05:02 PM
was not expecting that, even with Mes' struggles lately I thought we'd stick with him

texasdave
08-23-2012, 05:04 PM
Given the ten day minimum when you are optioned, would this by rule mean that he will not be eligible for the postseason roster, if he's not on the 25-man on August 31st?

Barring injury.


To be eligible for a team’s playoff roster a player must be on either a)the 25 man active roster, b)the disabled list, c)the bereavement list, d)the suspended list as of August 31st at midnight.


If an eligible player is injured and unable to play a club can call up any player in the organization regardless of their roster status* provided that the replacement player plays the same position (position player for position player and pitcher for pitcher), the replacement player was in the organization as of the August 31st deadline and they finished the season in the organization, and they receive approval from the commissioner.


*The player would need to be added to the 40 man roster if they weren’t on it before they could be activated. They just wouldn’t have needed to be on the 40 man roster by any other deadlines.

malcontent
08-23-2012, 05:09 PM
Black hole offensively and a move that should have happened months ago.

I like Navarro's bat and Hoover seems to be ready as well.

:thumbup:

RadfordVA
08-23-2012, 05:19 PM
Mesoraco probably isnt a good as fit as navarro on playoff roster anyway. He isnt going to be allowed to catch latos arroyo or cueto for sure, and maybe not even bailey or leake now in a clutch game. so if youre looking at a strictly backup catcher in playoffs with only pinch hitting duties navarro is probably the play due to lack of lefties on bench.

Biff Pocoroba
08-23-2012, 05:20 PM
I am on board with this move - Mes has looked pretty helpless and overmatched at the plate. Maybe a couple of weeks of consistent at-bats will help.

When speaking of Mes' playoff eligibility, Fay wrote "He is not automatically eligible for the postseason roster, but he can replace any player currently on the disabled list."

What does he mean by currently?

Larkin88
08-23-2012, 05:25 PM
I am on board with this move - Mes has looked pretty helpless and overmatched at the plate. Maybe a couple of weeks of consistent at-bats will help.

When speaking of Mes' playoff eligibility, Fay wrote "He is not automatically eligible for the postseason roster, but he can replace any player currently on the disabled list."

What does he mean by currently?

I'm struggling with interpreting that a bit myself.

BEETTLEBUG
08-23-2012, 05:25 PM
He means that a mystery DL can happen before midnight on August 31st.

Larkin88
08-23-2012, 05:26 PM
He means that a mystery DL can happen before midnight on August 31st.

Wouldn't the DL'ed player have to be a catcher? (per texasdave's copying of the rules up above)

EDIT: Apparently, the position requirement only applies if you're replacing an injured player during a series. Since he's in the organization as of Aug. 31, he can replace anyone who was on the DL as of 8/31 (i.e. Madson) [tweet (https://twitter.com/jarrodrollins)]

Biff Pocoroba
08-23-2012, 05:33 PM
ah, so we can use a Madson loophole here?

Mutaman
08-23-2012, 05:39 PM
I don't get it. He's not going to use Navaro off the bench as a left handed bat because he never uses his second catcher
as a pinch hitter. Does this mean we will be subjected to watching Navarro catch at some point? That's worse than watching Redmond pitch.

texasdave
08-23-2012, 05:40 PM
Here is a clearer link explaining the rules.


"The position-player-for-position-player / pitcher-for-pitcher requirement is indeed now gone for substitutions prior to a series," O'Halloran wrote in an e-mail. "However, teams now are allowed to substitute for an injured player during a series. Such in-series substitutions are position-player-for-position-player / pitcher-for-pitcher, and the injured player cannot be active for the remainder of that series or the next series. Those substitutions also require MLB approval.

http://www.blessyouboys.com/2011/8/30/2393169/playoff-roster-eligibility-rules-explained-hopefully

texasdave
08-23-2012, 05:45 PM
I don't get it. He's not going to use Navaro off the bench as a left handed bat because he never uses his second catcher
as a pinch hitter. Does this mean we will be subjected to watching Navarro catch at some point? That's worse than watching Redmond pitch.

I agree. Mesoraco has the better bat anyway*. He is better defensively. He has been working with Leake and Bailey all year. Navarro now has to learn those two pitchers.

I am struggling to see the upside of this move.

Now, Hoover has been lights out. No problem with him being on the squad.

*Okay I will throw out some stats.
Navarro OPSd .832 at Louisville this year at the age of 28.
Mesoraco OPSd .855 at Louisville last year at the age of 23.

Navarro, in his last four years in the majors has OPSd a Janish-like .577. His career OPS is a not-too-healthy .659.
Mesoraco is OPSing .639 this year. Not much of a different there.

Doug4500
08-23-2012, 05:46 PM
In a post season series where every game counts, I don't see a reason to start mes for any of them. Hannigan is very capable of carrying the full work load with the extra off days, is a better game caller, better hitter, and better at throwing out runners. That leaves mes on the bench for the majority of the games, where carrying an extra left handed bat will help. This looks to me like a move to strengthen the post season roster more than anything. More than likely Mes will be back up in september anyways when rosters expand to continue to catch bailey and leake for the stretch run.

Stray
08-23-2012, 05:49 PM
At the end of the day he wasn't going to be starting any playoff games anyway, and Dusty always saves the backup catcher for an emergency. I don't really think it's a big deal. I am confused about the whole thing though, a lot of different people reporting a lot of different things.

Trajinous
08-23-2012, 06:12 PM
I dont get it either. Is this a punishment for being suspended? Navarro is just as a blackhole as Mesoraco and hasn't been catching with our rotation as much as Mes.

I hope he's back up by the post-season, he could use the experience. I'm glad Hoover is back, he deserves it.

Krawhitham
08-23-2012, 06:31 PM
He can be back for the post season without any problem, they real concern is why burn an option year just to get him 10 games in the minors?

You only get 3 options years, why waste one this late in the season?

texasdave
08-23-2012, 07:04 PM
He can be back for the post season without any problem, they real concern is why burn an option year just to get him 10 games in the minors?

You only get 3 options years, why waste one this late in the season?

According to this link an option is not used if the player is sent down for less than 20 days. So if they bring him back up on September 1st, then I am assuming no option will be needed.



A few things to remember as you count option years:

A player on the 40-man roster does use a roster if he is optioned during Spring Training.
If a player does not go the Minors during a season, an option is not used.
If a player spends less than 20 days in the Minors during a year, an option is not used.
A player may be eligible for a fourth option if he has been optioned in three seasons but does not yet have five full seasons of professional experience. A full season is defined as being on an active pro roster for at least 90 days in a season.

http://langosch.mlblogs.com/2012/02/14/what-are-the-options-2/

TheBigLebowski
08-23-2012, 07:06 PM
I don't get this move at all. I know - everyone knows - Mes has not hit the ball this year, but he's a really good defensive catcher and Navarro is...well, Navarro. I think this is the predecessor for leaving Mes off the post-season roster, and that just stinks if true.

smixsell
08-23-2012, 07:37 PM
I agree. Don't like the move. The leather behind the plate is MUCH more important than a little more (?) lumber, ESPECIALLY in post season play.

smixsell
08-23-2012, 07:39 PM
He can be back for the post season without any problem, they real concern is why burn an option year just to get him 10 games in the minors?

You only get 3 options years, why waste one this late in the season?

Also true. Makes no sense to me.

jback76
08-23-2012, 07:48 PM
So glad to see Hoover up. As for the Mesoraco/Navarro debate I think we'll see Mesoraco on the playoff roster and no Navarro. Neither of them will probably see much action anyway. With the off days in the playoffs Hanigan will see all of the playing time.

smixsell
08-23-2012, 08:30 PM
According to this link an option is not used if the player is sent down for less than 20 days. So if they bring him back up on September 1st, then I am assuming no option will be needed.

Thanks for the info TexDave!

smixsell
08-23-2012, 08:33 PM
So glad to see Hoover up. As for the Mesoraco/Navarro debate I think we'll see Mesoraco on the playoff roster and no Navarro. Neither of them will probably see much action anyway. With the off days in the playoffs Hanigan will see all of the playing time.

Hope you're right. Even if Mes is going to be riding the pine as a backup C in the postseason, I'd rther have him there than Navarro. Defense is more important in the postseason, even in a backup C. (PS Not that Navarro is a much better stick than Mes anyway.)

smixsell
08-23-2012, 08:35 PM
Just a thought. Could this move be a possible prelude to a waiver trade? :)

OGB
08-23-2012, 08:41 PM
Who knows what the thought process is here, but hopefully they're trying to get Mesoraco some more playing time to get his bat on track. Keep in mind that he hasn't played since Monday and wouldn't play again until Saturday.

IamRV
08-23-2012, 09:34 PM
Guys, this ain't that difficult.

The Reds see a window where they can:

A. Get the pen back up to full strength with Hoover while

B. Keeping a LH bat on the bench and

C. Getting Nav some time and getting Hani some rest since we have a big lead while

C. Getting Mes a bunch of AB's in the next couple weeks so that

D. He'll be better tuned for the playoffs

texasdave
08-24-2012, 10:01 AM
Guys, this ain't that difficult.

The Reds see a window where they can:

A. Get the pen back up to full strength with Hoover while

B. Keeping a LH bat on the bench and

C. Getting Nav some time and getting Hani some rest since we have a big lead while

C. Getting Mes a bunch of AB's in the next couple weeks so that

D. He'll be better tuned for the playoffs

Irony. :laugh:

jback76
08-24-2012, 10:03 AM
Get Mesoraco back up here ASAP, send Jinxy back to Louisville. If you want to rest Hanigan some and give Mesoraco ab's, start him! We've done fine without the extra lefty this long.

smixsell
08-24-2012, 11:34 AM
Get Mesoraco back up here ASAP, send Jinxy back to Louisville. If you want to rest Hanigan some and give Mesoraco ab's, start him! We've done fine without the extra lefty this long.

Spot on. But this solution is just too obvious for our brain trust I guess. :eek:

texasdave
08-24-2012, 11:34 AM
The Reds still plan on having Devin Mesoraco on the postseason roster."We’re hoping so,” Reds manager Dusty Baker said. “We’re hoping that’s what the final outcome is. It depends on him. It depends on the progress he makes. We really want to stress it had nothing to do with his suspension.“This has been dabbled about for a while. You could see his confidence had gone down some. We want him to get his confidence back — offensively, defensively, throwing, all kind of ways. I had a long chat with him. He’s struggled before but he always comes back.

Grouse
08-24-2012, 12:54 PM
Do you think Grandal would be called up if he were here? I like Mes, But we might have traded the wrong catcher.

jback76
08-24-2012, 01:26 PM
Do you think Grandal would be called up if he were here? I like Mes, But we might have traded the wrong catcher.

Grandal was in a better position for a rookie catcher. Team going no where, Padres could just plug the rookie catcher in and let him catch full time. The Reds kept the right catcher, Mesoraco's day will come. I personally think it was a bad move by the Reds front office to send the second string catcher, who's been a part of the team all year, to Louisville this late in the year. What do the Reds gain with this move? Nothing.

IamRV
08-24-2012, 03:19 PM
Irony. :laugh:

Sorry smiley but you're going to have to point out the irony.

texasdave
08-24-2012, 03:38 PM
Sorry smiley but you're going to have to point out the irony.

Because you stated, "Guys, this ain't that difficult". And then you went on to list reasons A, B, C, C, and D.
Most people don't find the alphabet all that difficult.

Relax. It was just a little joke. :)

IamRV
08-26-2012, 12:07 PM
Because you stated, "Guys, this ain't that difficult". And then you went on to list reasons A, B, C, C, and D.
Most people don't find the alphabet all that difficult.

Relax. It was just a little joke. :)

Yep - I get it.

Added one in while not changing the letters. :redface:

Good one. :thumbup: