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View Full Version : Marty on the outfield



matt85webb
08-25-2012, 07:24 PM
Said on during the 5th that when vottos back Bruce needs to go to center, ludwick to right, and Frazier to left. Completely agree. Said its sad the way the season is going for Stubbs

DocRed
08-25-2012, 07:43 PM
Doesn't matter, Dusty would never do this, he has already said so. Same logic as to why Hanigan bats 8th...

Red Raindog
08-25-2012, 08:51 PM
Said on during the 5th that when vottos back Bruce needs to go to center, ludwick to right, and Frazier to left. Completely agree. Said its sad the way the season is going for Stubbs

it is the 4th straight year that Stubbs' BA has declined ---

Old NDN
08-26-2012, 08:50 PM
As pitiful as Stubbs has been offensively, I don't see it happening. Bruce is too slow to play a good CF, imo. But, it may be the only way to keep Frazier in the lineup regularly. I guess it's gonna come down to what's more important: defense (w/Stubbs) or offense(w/Frazier). Or another way: Are the Reds better w/out Rolen's defense and occasional outbursts of offense? I don't see Dusty doing that. But, Marty and Brantley are a lot closer to the situation than most of us. They must have heard something.

R_Webb18
08-26-2012, 08:54 PM
i think it can work at home

EMAW
08-27-2012, 12:09 AM
If this would happen, the Reds get weaker defensively at all 3 outfield spots

HometownHero
08-27-2012, 01:07 AM
It's along the lines of what should be at least tried. Drew is a -4 runs saved this year in center and a -8 last season, while Bruce was actually a +3 back in 08 when he got time in center. It sure will be nice to get Votto back at 1st as he at +5 there in his limited time while Todd is already -6.

PumpFak3First
08-27-2012, 01:37 AM
I guess people forget defense is part of the game

We are 43-5 when Stubbs scores. He's a streaky player it is what it is but if he's on he's so ridiculously valuable. If Stubbs gets hot around playoff time we are going to be damn tough to beat. Big if, but it's not like he's never been hot before. Like I said streaky.

HometownHero
08-27-2012, 02:11 AM
Part of the reason we have a good record when he scores is because he has a terrible OBP so when he actually gets on and in its a bonus. When he had a much higher OBP on 2011 we lost tons of games.

Another factor is the guys who replace him in center all are bad as well with the .684 from Valdez the highest of the 4 guys we used in CF with none of them having the same speed. The reaming reasons are we have far better pitching and we are scoring less runs overall.

Putting a .850+ OPS in center along with Votto being back at first makes us better offensively.

Ironman92
08-27-2012, 06:52 AM
I guess people forget defense is part of the game

We are 43-5 when Stubbs scores. He's a streaky player it is what it is but if he's on he's so ridiculously valuable. If Stubbs gets hot around playoff time we are going to be damn tough to beat. Big if, but it's not like he's never been hot before. Like I said streaky.

43-6

If?

He'll be facing the best of the best pitching and Cincy will be heavily scouted in Sept. He may get hot.....but not something to really bet on.

I'm not sure he's caught 10 balls all year that Bruce wouldn't have....8 being gappers....but there have been a few Bruce would've caught diving that Stubbs flailed at.

Ironman92
08-27-2012, 06:54 AM
Part of the reason we have a good record when he scores is because he has a terrible OBP so when he actually gets on and in its a bonus. When he had a much higher OBP on 2011 we lost tons of games.

Another factor is the guys who replace him in center all are bad as well with the .684 from Valdez the highest of the 4 guys we used in CF with none of them having the same speed. The reaming reasons are we have far better pitching and we are scoring less runs overall.

Putting a .850+ OPS in center along with Votto being back at first makes us better offensively.

Heisey is at .720

boiseheidleberg
08-27-2012, 12:43 PM
You know, we hear a lot about Stubbs defense and I'm sure with his speed he gets to some balls others wouldn't reach. But I've never seen him lay out for a catch and I was really disappointed with the way he deferred to Ludwick in Philadelphia on the sac fly that tied the last game in the 8th. I'm thinking sometimes he's given a little too much credit on defense.

boiseheidleberg
08-27-2012, 12:48 PM
I guess people forget defense is part of the game

We are 43-5 when Stubbs scores. He's a streaky player it is what it is but if he's on he's so ridiculously valuable. If Stubbs gets hot around playoff time we are going to be damn tough to beat. Big if, but it's not like he's never been hot before. Like I said streaky.

I think the 43-5 record may just be an indication of what happens with any team when a player at to top of the order gets on base not actually a product of how important that individual player is to the team. Generally when the top of the order gets on base the team scores more runs and wins more. That's why OBP is so important at the top of the order. It's kinda like saying when the quarterback throws touchdown passes the team has a better chance of winning.

Krawhitham
08-27-2012, 01:01 PM
Dustyball says NO via Hal McCoy

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2012/08/26/baker_talks_about_fraziers_fut.html/

FANS, OF COURSE, are worried about what happens with Todd Frazier when Votto comes back. Baker readily answered it. And one of reports that Jay Bruce would move to center and Todd Frazier would play right, is unfounded. “I was asked that and I said, “No way,” said Baker.

“I don’t know about every day, but Frazier is going to play,” said Baker. “But Scott Rolen (third base) knows the way. Ryan Ludwick (left field) knows the way. Jay Bruce is doing his thing. And Frazier can’t play center field.

“Everybody plays on our team and it is a matter of who I play on THAT day,” Baker added. “Nothing against Todd Frazier, but he ain’t never been down the stretch. Rolen has been down the stretch and Ludwick has been down the stretch — big-time for both. More than anybody on this team. Down the stretch is something. I don’t want no controversy on my lineups with Frazier, but we’ll play who is most suited to play down the stretch.”

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2012/08/26/baker_talks_about_fraziers_fut.html/

BurgervilleBuck
08-27-2012, 02:09 PM
Dustyball says NO via Hal McCoy

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2012/08/26/baker_talks_about_fraziers_fut.html/
It's comments like "Rolen has been down the stretch..." that really make me wonder if the front office is that smart in wanting Baker back. Geez.

BungleBengals
08-27-2012, 02:21 PM
Why can't Frazier play center field? I think he would do just fine there.

R_Webb18
08-27-2012, 03:17 PM
Why can't Frazier play center field? I think he would do just fine there.

my guess his arm

Phoenix2
08-27-2012, 03:44 PM
I agree it should be Ludwick-Bruce-Frazier. But we also know it won't happen as Dusty can be quite stubborn. But to Dusty's credit, he did insist on playing Ludwick when he was so awful in April/May..and that sure worked out.

HometownHero
08-27-2012, 06:24 PM
Heisey is at .720

Not when playing CF, he has a .659 now in 104 AB. Its 3rd worst of the 4 who have played CF with Negron the wrost but with 2 AB.

BurgervilleBuck
08-27-2012, 06:44 PM
But to Dusty's credit, he did insist on playing Ludwick when he was so awful in April/May..and that sure worked out.

*coff* Patterson *coff* Taveras *coff*coff* Gomes *coff*

Ironman92
08-27-2012, 11:50 PM
Not when playing CF, he has a .659 now in 104 AB. Its 3rd worst of the 4 who have played CF with Negron the wrost but with 2 AB.

Oh OK.....104 AB is far more telling than 300. My bad.

HometownHero
08-28-2012, 12:05 AM
Oh OK.....104 AB is far more telling than 300. My bad.

When talking about what the center fielders have done those 104 AB are all that matters.

BluegrassRedleg
08-28-2012, 01:40 AM
As pitiful as Stubbs has been offensively, I don't see it happening. Bruce is too slow to play a good CF, imo. But, it may be the only way to keep Frazier in the lineup regularly. I guess it's gonna come down to what's more important: defense (w/Stubbs) or offense(w/Frazier). Or another way: Are the Reds better w/out Rolen's defense and occasional outbursts of offense? I don't see Dusty doing that. But, Marty and Brantley are a lot closer to the situation than most of us. They must have heard something.

Depends on how much you feel like you sacrifice on balls hit to CF vs. the 4 or 5 ABs you automatically surrender sending Stubbs to the plate every night.

Which happens more often: balls that Bruce couldn't catch or Stubbs ABs?

BungleBengals
08-28-2012, 02:29 PM
Depends on how much you feel like you sacrifice on balls hit to CF vs. the 4 or 5 ABs you automatically surrender sending Stubbs to the plate every night.

Which happens more often: balls that Bruce couldn't catch or Stubbs ABs?

While I commend Dusty for sticking with Ludwick and Rolen during their early year slumps and they have turned around nicely, I think someone needs to tell Dusty that Stubbs and Cairo are not coming out of their slumps anytime soon.

Stubbs literally gets into the hole on 1-2 or 0-2 counts all the time. His only contact is that he fouls off a few pitches before completely wiffing. The fact the he supposedly did not work on his swing in the offseason and rarely bunts should be the indication that he is not trying to correct his obvious weakness. Also, his production has dropped every year since his rookie year too.

Overall, I think with Stubbs in CF we are better defensively, but I do not think the drop off of going from Stubbs to Bruce/Frazier is going to make our defense drop off that much compared to the offense gained by not only keeping Stubbs out, but also by adding Votto and keeping both Bruce and Frazier in. Anyways, how many plays does Stubbs really make in CF per game with his speed? Not to mention, he has yet to dive or even try on some close ones.

Krawhitham
08-28-2012, 03:06 PM
my guess his arm

My guess his range