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View Full Version : Did the Reds just peak early?



HDBoy
09-09-2012, 01:20 PM
A few weeks ago, the Reds were the hottest, most exciting team in baseball and seemed to be building momentum for the post-season.

While they just evened the Astro's series yesterday and are 22-15 for the August - September time frame, the team seems to be playing a somewhat lethargic, uninspired game the last couple of weeks. They've made more errors than normal, hitting has fallen off, the pitching has been uneven and they've even endured a couple of eyebrow-raising losing streaks. 22-15 isn't a bad record, but it isn't great either.

Is it my imagination, or did the Reds just peak?

Or is this just a team coasting on auto-pilot to make it through the final, dog days of summer?

One long losing streak and they're lead could evaporate quickly.

Ironman92
09-09-2012, 01:27 PM
Well, for one....we won't know for 4 more weeks.

It's unpredictable on who will be hot to start the playoffs.

Red Buckeye
09-09-2012, 02:50 PM
They probably do have it on cruise control the rest of the regular season.

Take my word, the Reds will NOT blow their huge lead.

mu4103
09-09-2012, 03:01 PM
No the Reds are fine. The only difference is that they have some changes to adjust to and it should be enough time by the time the playoffs get here.
Adjustments:
1. Who will start in CF
2. The return of Votto
3. The 3B situation with Frazier and Rolen

(Why X Paul will be in the line-up at all the rest of the year I do not know. Frazier and Heisey should be seeing time there with Ludwick as the starter.)

Tough having the Rookie of the Year on the bench when Rolen returns.

Adjustments take time. I think the Reds will get in a groove again.

Trajinous
09-09-2012, 03:57 PM
With 9.5 game lead on the division, it doesn't make sense to got full steam and risk injury. On top of that, we are a few weeks away from the post-season.

If they were only 2-3 games ahread, I would be worried but they are not.

HometownHero
09-09-2012, 05:27 PM
Yes, we now have a month of meaningless games and going through the motions before getting tossed in the fire against the Giants pitching staff in games that are critical. Playing hard and good to the end is way so many WC teams make playoff runs.

40YrRedsFan
09-09-2012, 05:45 PM
While I agree the Reds should have this division locked up with a 9.5 game lead, starting the 18th, the Cardinals play 9 straight games against the Astros, Cubs, and Astros again. It is not out of the realm of possibility for the Cards to win 9 straight against these poor teams. We need to keep the pressure on by at least playing .500 the rest of the way. We have played poorly the last couple of weeks. Our hitting has really fallen off. As I write this, the Cards have just beaten the Brewers in extras, so our lead is down to 8.5 games. With 21 games to go, we better win at least 10....12 would be
better. We can't afford to just 'coast' to the end.

jback76
09-09-2012, 06:04 PM
We've got a big enough lead that we can probably hang on as long as we don't go on a long losing steak. To many bats slumping right now, so sprinkle a few wins in now until our hitting comes around. Rather this happen now then the begining of October, if we're hitting like this at GABP come playoff time it's gonna be a quick exit.

WDE
09-09-2012, 06:37 PM
If we go .500 the rest of the way, the Cards would have to go 21-2. Just think about that.

Ironman92
09-09-2012, 06:40 PM
If we go .500 the rest of the way, the Cards would have to go 21-2. Just think about that.

And the way we've played against the worst team in baseball......500 sounds great.

justincredible
09-09-2012, 07:02 PM
Yes. The season is over.

Maker_84
09-09-2012, 07:19 PM
this team can suck all they want right now because the cardinals aren't catching them. If they suck like this in the playoffs then its bye bye Baker and some big moves need to be made

EMAW
09-09-2012, 08:08 PM
this team can suck all they want right now because the cardinals aren't catching them. If they suck like this in the playoffs then its bye bye Baker and some big moves need to be made

Other than winning the world series in a sweep I assume you feel Dusty should be fired

Falcon7
09-10-2012, 12:50 AM
And the way we've played against the worst team in baseball......500 sounds great.

Now way this team plays .500 the rest of the regular season, .400 is more like it, that should still win the division and then 1 and done, I'm afraid.

Maker_84
09-10-2012, 02:55 AM
Now way this team plays .500 the rest of the regular season, .400 is more like it, that should still win the division and then 1 and done, I'm afraid.

I dont care what anyone says, losing in the first round again would be a failure of a season

The Rage
09-10-2012, 04:41 AM
One and done would be a failure.

chuck6660
09-10-2012, 06:18 AM
I'm sure a similiar thread was being bantered aound in Boston and Atlanta this time last year! :eek:

MrRedLegger
09-10-2012, 06:50 AM
Accumulating more wins than any other team with the exception of one over the course of 6 months is not peaking.

justincredible
09-10-2012, 09:31 AM
Now way this team plays .500 the rest of the regular season, .400 is more like it, that should still win the division and then 1 and done, I'm afraid.

Might as well just stop following this season since you already know what's going to happen.

Biff Pocoroba
09-10-2012, 10:13 AM
Personally, a first round loss would not constitute a failur for the entire season though I understand that many would feel that way.

To me, there are two seasons - the "big 162" in which teams are judged on th strength of their entire roster - where the fifth starter is important; reserves will have to fill in; and the bullpen must be relatively deep.

Then there's the playoffs where anything can happen. You have to be good, but you also have to be lucky - in terms of matchups; who's hot in your lineup; how the other guys' rotation is doing; and a bit of luck. As we all know, the best teams don't always win in a short series format.

So....in my mind, nothing that happens in October can take away what we've accomplished in the regular season - and nothing we did in the regular season means squat once the playoffs begin.

Captain13
09-10-2012, 10:16 AM
Personally, a first round loss would not constitute a failur for the entire season though I understand that many would feel that way.

To me, there are two seasons - the "big 162" in which teams are judged on th strength of their entire roster - where the fifth starter is important; reserves will have to fill in; and the bullpen must be relatively deep.

Then there's the playoffs where anything can happen. You have to be good, but you also have to be lucky - in terms of matchups; who's hot in your lineup; how the other guys' rotation is doing; and a bit of luck. As we all know, the best teams don't always win in a short series format.

So....in my mind, nothing that happens in October can take away what we've accomplished in the regular season - and nothing we did in the regular season means squat once the playoffs begin.

What he said. :beerme:

jback76
09-10-2012, 10:49 AM
Although I agree that we have had a nice bounce back year, if we go down in the first round of the playoffs this season is a failure IMO! But that's not a new opinion for me I've felt that way all along.

Biff Pocoroba
09-10-2012, 11:59 AM
jback - I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, but for me personally, I'd use a different adjective. If we get dropped in the first round, I'd look at the season as a disappointment rather than a failure. What've we done to date is an accomplishment.

Captain13
09-10-2012, 12:02 PM
Although I agree that we have had a nice bounce back year, if we go down in the first round of the playoffs this season is a failure IMO! But that's not a new opinion for me I've felt that way all along.

I am not trying to be snarky, just asking for clarification. You say a first round loss makes this season a failure, so is there no difference between division champs with a first round loss and the Houston Astros? Because I would call the Astros season (and the Cubs, Rockies and Marlins seasons) a failure.

muethibp
09-10-2012, 12:54 PM
I dont care what anyone says, losing in the first round again would be a failure of a season

I don't think failure means what you think it means. If this year is a failure, what was last year? Or 2005?

P.E.R#14
09-10-2012, 12:54 PM
These type of discussions are why I take 2 week redzone sabbaticals.

Second best record in baseball. Yes, we lost a home series against the hapless 'Stros, but these types of senseless dramatics belong in an Edward vs. that other sparkly dude forum.


Go Reds!!

jback76
09-10-2012, 12:55 PM
I am not trying to be snarky, just asking for clarification. You say a first round loss makes this season a failure, so is there no difference between division champs with a first round loss and the Houston Astros? Because I would call the Astros season (and the Cubs, Rockies and Marlins seasons) a failure.

Ok I'll change my words a bit. If the Reds don't do any better in the playoffs this year then they did in 2010, I will be totally disappointed. And I'm sure for a while (few days) will feel like the Reds failed. That first game no-hitter still stings when I think about it.

Captain13
09-10-2012, 01:03 PM
Ok I'll change my words a bit. If the Reds don't do any better in the playoffs this year then they did in 2010, I will be totally disappointed. And I'm sure for a while (few days) will feel like the Reds failed. That first game no-hitter still stings when I think about it.

This, I completely understand, and I don't care if it's Opening Day, or June, or Game 7 being no-hit is failing (doesn't make the season a failure, but it really sucks). I am very thankful I had a meeting that night and only saw the first three innings; I don't think I would've easily recovered from witnessing that.

Biff Pocoroba
09-10-2012, 02:12 PM
"That first game no-hitter still stings when I think about it."

The two errors on one play in the second game stings nearly as much. (not to mention the three plunked batters).

PS: My boys still make fun of me for the spastic dance and maniacal cackle I let out when Phillips dropped the relay throw.

HDBoy
09-10-2012, 03:21 PM
My original comment on peaking early was based on my concern that the Reds now have to get back on a winning streak to end the regular season with momentum, something that's important to win in the playoffs, something they had up until just a couple of weeks ago. Just now, they appear vulnerable as a team, and it's painfully obvious this can embolden even weak competitors.

How the Reds will swing the momentum back in their favor is a bit of mystery to me -- it seems to come and go with the late summer storms that drift in and out of the Ohio Valley.

Perhaps Baker needs to shake things up a bit more. Votto's return ceratinly has changed the team chemistry once again. I certainly shudder at the thought of a playoff roster that includes Leake, Stubbs, Mesaroco, Cairo and Valdez. In the playoffs, any MLB team can win and any team is only as strong as the weakest links. Right now, the Reds' weakest links appear to be consistent run production from core players and starting pitching that's reliable in the early innings. Hopefully, the recent relief pitching problem is just an aberration that will correct itself.

By the way, I'm obviously a newbie here, but all season long, I've really enjoyed reading the forums for entertainment and insight.

HometownHero
09-10-2012, 04:17 PM
20% of the teams win a division each year, they are nice but they don't mean much anymore. Would much rather make it on the last day as a WC thanks to two teams folding like the Cardinals had happen and then go on to win it all because that's what gets glory and people remember.

I'm not sure how many casual fans know the Marlins have never won a division but they all know they have a couple titles.

jback76
09-10-2012, 04:22 PM
With 21 games remaining before the playoffs there is plenty of time to turn the hitting around. I'd rather have it happening now then later. But without a doubt if they're hitting is this bad come playoff time it'll be over quick for them imo.

Helms1
09-10-2012, 04:38 PM
I may be giving Dusty and Walt more credit than they deserve, but sometimes resting players and obviously injuries and returning players has the effect of taking the winds out of a teams sail's and that could be at least purposeful to put a bit of a governor on an engine running hot in an attempt to cool it down a bit and get it smoking again at the right time. As a swimmer by trade, coaches did that to us all the time in training. A risker and far more difficult thing to do with a team for sure, but you have to hope there is at least consideration given to the policy.

muethibp
09-10-2012, 05:04 PM
20% of the teams win a division each year, they are nice but they don't mean much anymore. Would much rather make it on the last day as a WC thanks to two teams folding like the Cardinals had happen and then go on to win it all because that's what gets glory and people remember.

I'm not sure how many casual fans know the Marlins have never won a division but they all know they have a couple titles.

I totally disagree that winning the division doesn't mean much. To my mind, winning the division is the truest test of baseball excellence. Probably you're right about casual fans knowing more about the playoffs, but that's a view of a person not close to the game (by definition) and thus one I care little about. When this team wins the division, I will be immensely proud and happy of that fact and think often of the six months of joy that underlie the title. What happens in October won't remotely change that.

HometownHero
09-10-2012, 05:43 PM
I totally disagree that winning the division doesn't mean much. To my mind, winning the division is the truest test of baseball excellence. Probably you're right about casual fans knowing more about the playoffs, but that's a view of a person not close to the game (by definition) and thus one I care little about. When this team wins the division, I will be immensely proud and happy of that fact and think often of the six months of joy that underlie the title. What happens in October won't remotely change that.

Feel free to disagree all you like but the reality is nobody remembers who wins the division, the Braves won all those division titles and only have one WS and to many they're known as choke artists.

When the baseball had the two divisions and those teams met in the WS they meant everything and even held their value when 4 teams got in but in a era where some division just have to beat 3 other teams or you get a 6 team NL central that has two or of worst teams in all of baseball in it they don't mean a whole lot anymore.

The second a team celebrates winning the division they don't care one bit about it anymore. Players want to win in the playoffs and if they don't all winter they don't sit around happy the team gets to put a year on a wall someplace and sell some T-shirts they are upset about the playoffs all year. If you ask any player if they would rather have a 15 year career of making the playoffs every year as Division winner with no ring or winning the title as a Wild Card and they will take the ring.

The Brewers won our division last year, a team they beat to win it got all the glory. Who's fans are more happy this winter, do you think there is one Brewers fan bragging they won the Division?

texasdave
09-10-2012, 07:10 PM
The Reds may go on out in the first round (I doubt it). But if they play well that is acceptable. If they roll over like they did in 2010, that would be unacceptable.

texasdave
09-10-2012, 07:12 PM
Feel free to disagree all you like but the reality is nobody remembers who wins the division, the Braves won all those division titles and only have one WS and to many they're known as choke artists.

When the baseball had the two divisions and those teams met in the WS they meant everything and even held their value when 4 teams got in but in a era where some division just have to beat 3 other teams or you get a 6 team NL central that has two or of worst teams in all of baseball in it they don't mean a whole lot anymore.

The second a team celebrates winning the division they don't care one bit about it anymore. Players want to win in the playoffs and if they don't all winter they don't sit around happy the team gets to put a year on a wall someplace and sell some T-shirts they are upset about the playoffs all year. If you ask any player if they would rather have a 15 year career of making the playoffs every year as Division winner with no ring or winning the title as a Wild Card and they will take the ring.

The Brewers won our division last year, a team they beat to win it got all the glory. Who's fans are more happy this winter, do you think there is one Brewers fan bragging they won the Division?

A lot of truth to this. 10 teams make the postseason now. It is getting more and more of a tournament feel to it. It is hard for me to call the 4th and 5th best teams in a league World Champions. But that is the hand we are being dealt these days. Some call it progress.

Red Buckeye
09-11-2012, 09:27 PM
World Series Champs or bust this season.

With the bullpen, top 2 SP's, MVP Votto, and ROTY Frazier, nobody should be satisfied with just a measley NL Central Division Title this year.

That was satisfactory for 2010, but this is the Reds year. I can't remember a season when the media loved the Reds as much as this one, the buzz about this team has a WS feel, and I'm not going to let the subpar stretch this teams been on worry me.

Chapman is resting up for the playoffs. Cueto will be fine. He always comes back. He's still got time to do it. Latos is a stud.

We still have a scary good offense with some of the guys in our lineup.

Guys this team will be ready and fully charged come October. We STILL have a huge lead and many of the other teams in the playoff hunt don't have that luxury. THEY will be the ones that will be exhausted.

The Reds will be fully charged and ready for the playoffs. I really think right now they are simply going through the motions and just trying to stay healthy and rested for October.

I am still worried to death about the lineup Dusty might use in the postseason but I have no doubt fatigue won't be an issue for this team.

Carin4Narron
09-12-2012, 11:58 AM
[QUOTE=Red Buckeye;2733023]World Series Champs or bust this season.


I am sick and tired of that attiude-sp of Cincy Fans. Most of them compare every darn good Reds team to the Big Red Machine. People there was only one of those. Enjoy this team for what it is a very good team. I think they should make the NLCS at least. But if not, they should be appreciated for giving us a great summer!

muethibp
09-12-2012, 12:53 PM
Feel free to disagree all you like but the reality is nobody remembers who wins the division, the Braves won all those division titles and only have one WS and to many they're known as choke artists.

When the baseball had the two divisions and those teams met in the WS they meant everything and even held their value when 4 teams got in but in a era where some division just have to beat 3 other teams or you get a 6 team NL central that has two or of worst teams in all of baseball in it they don't mean a whole lot anymore.

The second a team celebrates winning the division they don't care one bit about it anymore. Players want to win in the playoffs and if they don't all winter they don't sit around happy the team gets to put a year on a wall someplace and sell some T-shirts they are upset about the playoffs all year. If you ask any player if they would rather have a 15 year career of making the playoffs every year as Division winner with no ring or winning the title as a Wild Card and they will take the ring.

The Brewers won our division last year, a team they beat to win it got all the glory. Who's fans are more happy this winter, do you think there is one Brewers fan bragging they won the Division?

Your arguments present something of a moving target. My response was directed at your statement that winning the division doesn't "mean much anymore." You respond by telling me that the Braves won a bunch of division titles but who remembers them, when the truth is that nearly everyone remembers that. Then you ask whether the Brewers or STL fans are happier with how last year turned out, and I grant the STL answer is obvious, but does that really support the notion that winning the division doesn't mean much? Don't you think MIL fans enjoyed last year a lot more than we did? And isn't that part of the point of being a fan?

Red Buckeye
09-12-2012, 03:19 PM
[QUOTE=Red Buckeye;2733023]World Series Champs or bust this season.


I am sick and tired of that attiude-sp of Cincy Fans. Most of them compare every darn good Reds team to the Big Red Machine. People there was only one of those. Enjoy this team for what it is a very good team. I think they should make the NLCS at least. But if not, they should be appreciated for giving us a great summer!

I do appreciate what they have done so far It's been very enjoyable and I'm not trying to imply it hasn't been. But this team has the pieces to win a WS.

Great top of the rotation SP...Check
Dominant Bullpen...Check
Game changing players on offense...Check

It's not like I'm going to be personally mad at them if they come short this year. But this team imo is better than all of the other NL teams, especially now that the Nats won't have Strasburg for the playoffs.

So yeah with the way this season has gone this team should at least be able to make it to the WS.

And where in my post did I compare them to the BRM? They're not even in the same league as the BRM.

Carin4Narron
09-12-2012, 04:26 PM
[QUOTE=Carin4Narron;2733474]

I do appreciate what they have done so far It's been very enjoyable and I'm not trying to imply it hasn't been. But this team has the pieces to win a WS.

Great top of the rotation SP...Check
Dominant Bullpen...Check
Game changing players on offense...Check

It's not like I'm going to be personally mad at them if they come short this year. But this team imo is better than all of the other NL teams, especially now that the Nats won't have Strasburg for the playoffs.

So yeah with the way this season has gone this team should at least be able to make it to the WS.

And where in my post did I compare them to the BRM? They're not even in the same league as the BRM.


You sound like a rational Reds fan. But your statement of world series or bust was a stupid one. Not you but most older Reds fans compare every good Reds team with the RRM or the Reds are the single source of their happiness.

I find that frustraing and/or disturbing!

HometownHero
09-12-2012, 05:17 PM
Your arguments present something of a moving target. My response was directed at your statement that winning the division doesn't "mean much anymore." You respond by telling me that the Braves won a bunch of division titles but who remembers them, when the truth is that nearly everyone remembers that. Then you ask whether the Brewers or STL fans are happier with how last year turned out, and I grant the STL answer is obvious, but does that really support the notion that winning the division doesn't mean much? Don't you think MIL fans enjoyed last year a lot more than we did? And isn't that part of the point of being a fan?

Fans remember the Braves run because they only won 1 WS, if they won several rings they would be know as one of the greatest teams ever rather one of the biggest postseason failures of all time.

The Brewers fans may have enjoyed the regular season but it ended with them feeling much worse than our fans did the whole year. Their division title was useless because a team they beat out for it won the NL over them and then won the World Title.

I bet next to nobody here can run off the last 30 teams to win each of the divisions over the last 5 years but I bet most everyone can name almost all of the World Series winners since the strike if you have been watching that long.

The Rage
09-12-2012, 06:23 PM
Everybody's goal is the WS. A division title is worthless. I think the 2010 Reds learned that. They played so poorly and sloppy in the divisional series.

At least the WC team will have to do more to earn it.

Carin4Narron
09-13-2012, 09:56 AM
Everybody's goal is the WS. A division title is worthless.

a typical insane statement of a normal so called Reds fan! Let me ask you something, bud, would a Reds World Championship change your life personally? The answer is a big fat NO! Let's just enjoy this playoff run, whatever happens,happens. They gave us one heck of a summer!