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Sea Ray
09-10-2012, 12:07 PM
OK, we all know the situation in the NFL and officiating is an inexact science but I'm going to focus my comment on the Seahawk-Cardinal game. For those of you who missed it, here's the backround on it:


(CBS/AP) GLENDALE, Ariz. - Replacement officials in Sunday's game between Arizona and Seattle made a mistake by awarding the Seahawks an extra timeout in the closing seconds.


Seahawks coach Pete Carroll called timeout with 30 seconds left, but the officials had announced two plays earlier Seattle used its last one when receiver Doug Baldwin was injured.


After huddling, then meeting with two different people from the sideline, the officials determined the previous stoppage had been on an incomplete pass, so the Seahawks were not charged with a timeout.


Under NFL rules, teams are required to use a timeout for an injured player in the final two minutes, whether the clock is running or not.


The mistake didn't end up having an impact on the game; Seattle failed to score on four plays inside Arizona's 6-yard line as the Cardinals held on for a 20-16 win.


"It was my error," referee Bruce Hermansen said in a statement. "We gave them (Seattle) the additional timeout because of the incomplete pass stopping the clock before the injury occurred. When in effect, the clock has no bearing on the play at all, whether it's stopped or running, we should not have given them the additional timeout."



http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-57509385/replacement-referees-give-seahawks-extra-timeout/

Now I saw it live and let me re-cap it. They granted a timeout after Seattle ran the ball up the middle on 1st and goal from about 8 yd line with 0:30 left. As the article states, they already had announced that Seattle was out of TOs. Then they huddled and talked extensively with "the booth" as the Cardinals were yelling that the 'Hawks were out of TOs. There was a saignificant delay. Finally the head ref announces that Seattle was awarded a TO here because they incorrectly ruled earlier that they be charged with an injury TO because that play was on an incomplete pass.

So my question is this: after consulting with people "upstairs" who supposedly had access to a rulebook, how did they get this call wrong? As the article above states the ref admitted after the game that he was wrong and the injury TO should have been charged regardless of whether the clock was stopped or not.

I get that bad judgements are made in the heat of the moment and split second decisions sometimes need to be made but that's not what happened here. In this case the refs had time to consult and come to a sound decision. Given all that, they still blew it which leads to my question:

Why should this ref be brought back for any more NFL games? He should be gone and sent back to do college div 2, 3 or wherever he came from. This sort of egregious error is inexcusable

bucksfan2
09-10-2012, 12:15 PM
They screwed up. They got the call wrong and when they huddled for the second time it really didn't matter. Their huddling in essence was granting Seattle a TO regardless. At least the head Ref admitted his mistake unlike the regular officials.

I watched the SF GB game and there were quite a few penalties called. You would see the flag, hear the crowd boo, but then on replay saw the penalty. The games I saw were no worse than the bad officiating crews around today. The thing with the replacement refs is they are going to get better and better the more games they do. The NFL officials who are holding out were hoping for a bunch of poor officiated games which didn't happen.

Can you name one week with the regular refs didn't miss a controversial call?

Stray
09-10-2012, 12:22 PM
The NFL is paying the replacement refs about 1/3 of what the regular refs make. You get what you pay for.

All things considered I thought they did a decent job. There will be bad calls and mistakes, but it coulda been a lot worse. Like Bucksfan2 said, I think they'll keep getting better the more games they do.

Sea Ray
09-10-2012, 12:34 PM
The NFL is paying the replacement refs about 1/3 of what the regular refs make. You get what you pay for.

All things considered I thought they did a decent job. There will be bad calls and mistakes, but it coulda been a lot worse. Like Bucksfan2 said, I think they'll keep getting better the more games they do.

I agree, all things considered they did OK which is why I'm fine with bringing most of them back next week but this one has to go. If you can't get the rule right after taking a long time to discuss it with others, you're gone. That's the very least we can expect from these officials. The fact that it didn't impact who won the game is just dumb luck

Sea Ray
09-10-2012, 12:37 PM
They screwed up. They got the call wrong and when they huddled for the second time it really didn't matter. Their huddling in essence was granting Seattle a TO regardless. At least the head Ref admitted his mistake unlike the regular officials.

I watched the SF GB game and there were quite a few penalties called. You would see the flag, hear the crowd boo, but then on replay saw the penalty. The games I saw were no worse than the bad officiating crews around today. The thing with the replacement refs is they are going to get better and better the more games they do. The NFL officials who are holding out were hoping for a bunch of poor officiated games which didn't happen.

Can you name one week with the regular refs didn't miss a controversial call?

Refs miss controversial calls all the time but they rarely if ever don't know the rules. Especially after delaying the game in order to get it right...and they still screwed it up. No, sorry. You're gone in my book. This is the NFL and we have higher standards than that. If the NFL tolerates this then they're telling the world that they'll tolerate anything from these guys and that's not the signal you want to send

bucksfan2
09-10-2012, 01:31 PM
Refs miss controversial calls all the time but they rarely if ever don't know the rules. Especially after delaying the game in order to get it right...and they still screwed it up. No, sorry. You're gone in my book. This is the NFL and we have higher standards than that. If the NFL tolerates this then they're telling the world that they'll tolerate anything from these guys and that's not the signal you want to send

I can see where they got the rule wrong. It was an incomplete pass so the clock was already stopped. The Seahawks who were behind gained no advantage for the player going down. Should the officials have known that rule, yes. But to assume that the regular officials never make mistakes is absurd. Ask Mike Carey about tackling someone too hard! What about the time Ed Hochuli massively screwed up a call a few years ago?

In the Green Bay SF game there was a blown call on the punt return for a TD. The one flag that was picked up looked like the right decision. However the refs missed a pretty blatant block in the back that sprung the play. I remember a game last year against the Steelers when a blatant block in the back was missed on a PR that blew the game open.

The replacements refs are by no means great but to act like the regular officials never blow calls is incorrect.

Redsfaithful
09-10-2012, 02:18 PM
The bad thing is it's not like this is the second best groups of refs. The guys working NCAA games and anyone who has hopes of ever moving up to the NFL isn't going to take a chance as a scab.

These are guys from high school football, lingerie league, etc.

JaxRed
09-10-2012, 02:53 PM
Yet....they did a pretty good job.

Sea Ray
09-10-2012, 03:06 PM
I can see where they got the rule wrong. It was an incomplete pass so the clock was already stopped. The Seahawks who were behind gained no advantage for the player going down. Should the officials have known that rule, yes. But to assume that the regular officials never make mistakes is absurd. Ask Mike Carey about tackling someone too hard! What about the time Ed Hochuli massively screwed up a call a few years ago?

In the Green Bay SF game there was a blown call on the punt return for a TD. The one flag that was picked up looked like the right decision. However the refs missed a pretty blatant block in the back that sprung the play. I remember a game last year against the Steelers when a blatant block in the back was missed on a PR that blew the game open.

The replacements refs are by no means great but to act like the regular officials never blow calls is incorrect.

Everyone blows calls but the examples you used were bad calls based on judgement or they weren't seen. In Mike Carey's judgement Justin Smith's tackle was "roughing". I disagree with him but I'm sure he can quote me word for word what the roughing rule is in the rulebook. In the GB-SF game yesterday, I don't know what the official's excuse is but I doubt they'll say that a blatant block in the back is not against the rules. The difference here is judgement vs ignorance of the rulebook. Let's take it to baseball since we're all baseball fans here. In MLB, they draw a distinction between judgement and rulebook interpretations. You can protest a game if the ump doesn't know the rules:

4.19
PROTESTING GAMES.
Each league shall adopt rules governing procedure for protesting a game, when a manager claims that an umpire’s decision is in violation of these rules. No protest shall ever be permitted on judgment decisions
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/start_end_4.jsp

It's extremely rare that refs don't know the rules especially after being given the opportunity to consult with others and research their decision. Suffice to say you'll have to work Google a bit harder in order to find examples of that or just admit that such an error is quite rare

Sea Ray
09-10-2012, 03:09 PM
Yet....they did a pretty good job.

Taken on the whole, perhaps, but I'm just suggesting that one go bye-bye. In the big picture I'm fine with the NFL starving the regular ones for awhile

Redsfaithful
09-10-2012, 03:11 PM
Yet....they did a pretty good job.

Kind of? Giving a team an extra timeout is pretty amateur. The constant huddling up for tough calls made the games feel longer, but that could just be my perception.

Boss-Hog
09-10-2012, 03:18 PM
Kind of? Giving a team an extra timeout is pretty amateur. The constant huddling up for tough calls made the games feel longer, but that could just be my perception.

I thought the same thing.

savafan
09-10-2012, 03:58 PM
Though I wasn't happy with the end score result, I thought the refs in the Philadelphia vs. Cleveland match-up did a pretty good job of calling a fair game.

Tom Servo
09-10-2012, 04:12 PM
I've seen worse calls. I'll always remember the year before the instituted instant replay where the head official ruled that Vinny Testaverde's helmet crossing the goal line counted as a touchdown even if the ball didn't get in. Oh and the time when they botched the coin toss.

Hillsdale87
09-10-2012, 04:12 PM
Why should this ref be brought back for any more NFL games? He should be gone and sent back to do college div 2, 3 or wherever he came from. This sort of egregious error is inexcusable

There was an NFL employee upstairs who didn't correct them either, so it's not just the replacement refs who messed up. It was a bad mistake, but it happened with the regular refs in 2009 too, so it's not unique to the replacement officials. Personally, I think the whole issue was overblown and that the refs did really well outside of that moment in the Arizona game.

bucksfan2
09-10-2012, 04:45 PM
There was an NFL employee upstairs who didn't correct them either, so it's not just the replacement refs who messed up. It was a bad mistake, but it happened with the regular refs in 2009 too, so it's not unique to the replacement officials. Personally, I think the whole issue was overblown and that the refs did really well outside of that moment in the Arizona game.

Disclaimer: I can't stand listening to Joe Buck. I would rather listen to nails running across a chalk board than listen to him do a game.

That said it seemed like him and Aikman were eager to point out every flag that these were replacement refs only to show the replay and catch the penalty. They were a little flag happy in the GB SF game but as noted earlier that officiating group threw the most in preseason. Aside from the Arizona, Seattle game were there any other blatant errors? Were there any calls that made you scream "Get the regular officials back!"

Sea Ray
09-10-2012, 04:48 PM
There was an NFL employee upstairs who didn't correct them either, so it's not just the replacement refs who messed up. It was a bad mistake, but it happened with the regular refs in 2009 too, so it's not unique to the replacement officials. Personally, I think the whole issue was overblown and that the refs did really well outside of that moment in the Arizona game.

I agree, there's plenty of blame to go around and I'd love to hear how those discussions went but in the end it was the referee's call so he has to take the fall for it. If he thought the helmet counted as the ball, I'd can him for that too. Here there's no union to deal with so the NFL can handle this however they want. I'm thinking that they do not want the fans to to think that they're using refs that don't even know the NFL rulebook.

BuckeyeRed27
09-10-2012, 06:25 PM
Disclaimer: I can't stand listening to Joe Buck. I would rather listen to nails running across a chalk board than listen to him do a game.

That said it seemed like him and Aikman were eager to point out every flag that these were replacement refs only to show the replay and catch the penalty. They were a little flag happy in the GB SF game but as noted earlier that officiating group threw the most in preseason. Aside from the Arizona, Seattle game were there any other blatant errors? Were there any calls that made you scream "Get the regular officials back!"

I thought Michaels and Colinsworth were way worse. They were relentless with it and almost had a mocking tone about bad calls. I thought it was a little out of line.

bucksfan2
09-11-2012, 09:08 AM
Not that it mattered but the Bengals were victimized by two bad calls. The drop called on AJ Green and Boldin's TD that wasn't a catch.

There is a professionalism that the normal refs have over the current refs. They also have seen a number of replays that the current ones have not. It probably wouldn't have mattered but it sure would have been nice to see a call or two go the Bengals way last night.

Sea Ray
09-11-2012, 09:47 AM
Not that it mattered but the Bengals were victimized by two bad calls. The drop called on AJ Green and Boldin's TD that wasn't a catch.

There is a professionalism that the normal refs have over the current refs. They also have seen a number of replays that the current ones have not. It probably wouldn't have mattered but it sure would have been nice to see a call or two go the Bengals way last night.

No way the Bengals were going to compete last night unless those kind of calls went their way. We also got screwed on some PI calls

Slyder
09-11-2012, 10:17 AM
Disclaimer: I can't stand listening to Joe Buck. I would rather listen to nails running across a chalk board than listen to him do a game.

That said it seemed like him and Aikman were eager to point out every flag that these were replacement refs only to show the replay and catch the penalty. They were a little flag happy in the GB SF game but as noted earlier that officiating group threw the most in preseason. Aside from the Arizona, Seattle game were there any other blatant errors? Were there any calls that made you scream "Get the regular officials back!"

The only one I really saw last night was the missed horse collar tackle on Run DMC. Which would have extended the first Raider drive I believe.

Aikman was probably just sticking up for the union, as he use to be (I dont know if retired players are still in) the NFLPA and I'm sure both unions try to stand up for the other when they can.

Bob Sheed
09-11-2012, 10:52 AM
In the big picture I'm fine with the NFL starving the regular ones for awhile


Why?

Owners and players not getting a big enough piece of the millions for you?

:laugh:

100's of millions of dollars in/out of this game... and they are using "replacements."

It all smacks of greed. As usual. Why do we lap this game up anyway? :beerme:

Sea Ray
09-11-2012, 11:11 AM
Why?

Owners and players not getting a big enough piece of the millions for you?

:laugh:

100's of millions of dollars in/out of this game... and they are using "replacements."

It all smacks of greed. As usual. Why do we lap this game up anyway? :beerme:

No question the NFL owners are filthy rich but you don't get to be filthy rich by giving millions away. It's really pretty simple:

The NFL holds the keys to the only way these officials can make $150K/yr. They have to work for the NFL in order to make that kind of jack. The games will go on without them. It won't affect ticket prices or the amount ESPN is shelling out to televise MNF. For that reason there's no point in giving in to their demands. Just let them sit out and lose paycheck after paycheck while the NFL rakes in money every week. It's amazing to me that the officials have a union to begin with

Redsfaithful
09-16-2012, 07:59 PM
Blame it on the replacements or not, but the officiating has been god awful today, all over the league.

757690
09-23-2012, 04:01 PM
Blame it on the replacements or not, but the officiating has been god awful today, all over the league.

I can't watch these games. I love football, but the refs play too important part of the game for them to use guys this bad. I keep seeing games influenced by bad calls throughout the game, and as SeaRay pointed out, it's not judgement calls, it's not knowing the rules.

Seriously, I'm only watching baseball until this gets resolved.

cincrazy
09-23-2012, 04:57 PM
I didn't want to jump on the "OMG THE REFS SUCK" train too quickly... but OMG THE REFS SUCK. Every big play the Bengals make, I hold my breath expecting it to be called back on a BS call.

blumj
09-24-2012, 12:32 AM
I'm guessing just about everyone's watching the baseball game, including the refs in Baltimore.

5TimeWSChamps
09-24-2012, 12:36 AM
Plays against New England that drive:

Defensive Holding when Torrey wasn't touched
Oher tackling a guy by the head - No call, screen pass for 30
Defensive holding when the Offensive guy held him on a sack
Offensive PI not called when Torrey Smith pushed off the DB

wolfboy
09-24-2012, 12:57 AM
Plays against New England that drive:

Defensive Holding when Torrey wasn't touched
Oher tackling a guy by the head - No call, screen pass for 30
Defensive holding when the Offensive guy held him on a sack
Offensive PI not called when Torrey Smith pushed off the DB

Holy end of a game.

5TimeWSChamps
09-24-2012, 12:57 AM
The refs literally held Flacco's hand the last two possessions.

What an absolute joke, and it absolute sucks, cause it's going to eff over the Bengals

5TimeWSChamps
09-24-2012, 01:04 AM
Funny though, after Chris Henry died, I don't remember the Bengals being allowed to molest Chargers DB's all game like Torrey Smith was allowed to do tonight

5TimeWSChamps
09-24-2012, 01:24 AM
Also, the refs favor the home teams so much it's shocking.

All the proof I need...the Raiders only got called for 3 penalties today

THE RAIDERS!

George Foster
09-24-2012, 01:36 AM
The NFL does not care. They are making money, people are showing up, and people are watching on TV.

What the ref's are asking for is not crazy. They should be paid like full time employees. They claim it's very difficult to have a full time job when you have to be at the disposal of the NFL from August-January.

Pay them like professional full time employees. The NFL is making billions...makes no since.

There is a huge difference between these new guys and the regular NFL ref's, it's not a matter of debate. The networks are complaining as well because the games are lasting so much longer. NFL Redzone had to sign off at 8pm because their contract said they had too and some games were still playing....at 8pm! Games that start at 1pm should be over by 4ish and games that start at 4 should be over by 7ish...

Stray
09-25-2012, 12:31 AM
Anyone else watching this MNF game? Holy cow lol

Stray
09-25-2012, 12:49 AM
Okay I don't even know what's going on anymore.

kaldaniels
09-25-2012, 12:49 AM
Real refs will be back next week.

Pack was robbed.

Chip R
09-25-2012, 12:51 AM
That was brutal.

kaldaniels
09-25-2012, 12:51 AM
Hahaha the fake refs are crumbling in front of our eyes.

Roy Tucker
09-25-2012, 12:52 AM
There, bad refs and a fiasco at the end cost a team a game.

kaldaniels
09-25-2012, 12:57 AM
Goody-goody Tirico even saying the Pack was jobbed.

757690
09-25-2012, 01:00 AM
When did Vince McMahon become commissioner of the NFL?

757690
09-25-2012, 01:01 AM
There is far too much at stake to let this continue, and I'm referring to my Fantasy Football team's standings :p

kaldaniels
09-25-2012, 01:02 AM
I had a small amount on the Packers -3.5, cost me my lunch money tomorrow. :D

I feel for those who had big bucks on GB.

kaldaniels
09-25-2012, 01:04 AM
Hacks on the NFLN totally glossed over the last play. Disgraceful.

Oh how I will enjoy watching them squirm the rest of the week.

Chip R
09-25-2012, 01:06 AM
Those refs knew they weren't going to get out of there alive if that call was overturned.

Razor Shines
09-25-2012, 01:17 AM
I wonder if those refs knew they weren't long for the NFL so they took Seattle and the 3.5.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ohayou
09-25-2012, 01:22 AM
OK, yeah, maybe let's get the real officials back.

757690
09-25-2012, 01:25 AM
Just curiously, has anyone ever thrown a game winning interception on the last play of the game before tonight?

blumj
09-25-2012, 01:52 AM
OK, yeah, maybe let's get the real officials back.
Nah, farceball is way funnier than football.

Jefferson24
09-25-2012, 01:59 AM
that was the straw that broke Goodell's wallet

JayStubbs
09-25-2012, 02:24 AM
I wonder if Vinny Testaverde will try to make a comeback now that you can win games by throwing interceptions?

757690
09-25-2012, 02:58 AM
If these replacement refs were officiating WWII, we'd all be speaking German :cool:

RedsBaron
09-25-2012, 07:14 AM
that was the straw that broke Goodell's wallet

If Goodell had any integrity the incompetent call last night would be overturned today and Green Bay would be ruled the winner, 12-7.
Maybe the NFL should try to find the referees who officiated the 1972 Olympic basketball game between the USA and the USSR and hire them.

blumj
09-25-2012, 07:56 AM
I don't get why they couldn't overturn it, like: on further review, the receiver didn't have possession of the ball. That would have been against the rules, but this is okay?

Caveat Emperor
09-25-2012, 09:49 AM
Eh, why would the owners cave now? They're at their weakest point, negotiating wise. It'd make much more sense to run the replacement refs out there another week, just to show the union that they're willing to tolerate catastrophic mistakes if it means not paying real refs the money they want.

Sea Ray
09-25-2012, 09:51 AM
The thing is that last play was not the only crappy call in last night's game. In fact it was only the capper on a night of crappy calls. No way Wilson was roughed on his INT a few minutes earlier. No way Okung was holding on a previous play. There were countless calls that were horrible. It became downright unwatchable after awhile

Chip R
09-25-2012, 10:09 AM
Eh, why would the owners cave now? They're at their weakest point, negotiating wise. It'd make much more sense to run the replacement refs out there another week, just to show the union that they're willing to tolerate catastrophic mistakes if it means not paying real refs the money they want.

You're probably right. They will only cave if it starts affecting the bottom line. If people stop watching and/or coming to games because of this, they won't do anything.

bucksfan2
09-25-2012, 10:25 AM
I am not backing the replacement refs but there is this assumption that the real refs will get everything right. Which over the course of the past 25 years I have been watching NFL football is wrong. The regular NFL refs are prone to bad calls on a quarterly basis.

The problem I have with the current replacement refs aren't the calls, its the way they handle the calls. Its the not knowing of the ins and outs of the rules. Its the 10 second run off in the Bengals game, its the marking off of penalties wrong. In the NE Baltimore game the Ravens made a questionable FG that has been debated. Lets not forget the Browns game a few years back when the real refs made the wrong call when a game winning FG hit the crossbar and hopped over. The main complaint I have is the replacement refs are effecting the flow of the game. If the NFL keeps going down this path they need to get someone upstairs in the ear of the lead ref advising him on calls and the rules. It would haven't taken much for someone in a box to buzz the head ref in the Bengals game to say take 10 seconds off the clock.

As for the play last night it should have been an INT but I can't say with conviction that the regular refs would have made the call that way.

Todd Gack
09-25-2012, 11:06 AM
I remember joking last year that most games were decided by some very questionable calls and not really on-field performance. I don't see how this year is much different.

Sea Ray
09-25-2012, 11:09 AM
One thing is the games are going really late. The Raiders-Steelers game went past 8pm on Sunday

757690
09-25-2012, 11:24 AM
As for the play last night it should have been an INT but I can't say with conviction that the regular refs would have made the call that way.

I can.

It was a tough call, but that wasn't the problem. The biggest problem with the call was that two refs called it differently at the same time. One signaled touchdown, one signaled interception. That has happened a few times in the past, and when that happens, the umpire huddles with everyone, reviews it and the right call is made.

That is not what happened last night. The umpire incorrectly went with the touchdown call immediately, ignored the interception call, and then ruled there wasn't enough evidence to overturn it. That's not the proper procedure, and the reason why it was such a mess.

757690
09-25-2012, 11:28 AM
I remember joking last year that most games were decided by some very questionable calls and not really on-field performance. I don't see how this year is much different.

That's like saying in the 1990's that the Reds pitchers and defense gave up some runs, then in the 2000's they also gave up some runs, so nothing changed.

757690
09-25-2012, 11:30 AM
The thing is that last play was not the only crappy call in last night's game. In fact it was only the capper on a night of crappy calls. No way Wilson was roughed on his INT a few minutes earlier. No way Okung was holding on a previous play. There were countless calls that were horrible. It became downright unwatchable after awhile

And that has been true for most games. Why watch games when you have zero confidence that the team that plays the best will win?

Sea Ray
09-25-2012, 11:30 AM
I can.

It was a tough call, but that wasn't the problem. The biggest problem with the call was that two refs called it differently at the same time. One signaled touchdown, one signaled interception. That has happened a few times in the past, and when that happens, the umpire huddles with everyone, reviews it and the right call is made.

That is not what happened last night. The umpire incorrectly went with the touchdown call immediately, ignored the interception call, and then ruled there wasn't enough evidence to overturn it. That's not the proper procedure, and the reason why it was such a mess.

The referee should have huddled everyone and made the final call himself. I still don't know if it was "reviewed" as Jerry Seaman said that it's not a call that can be reviewed by replay. It was botched in every sense

Chip R
09-25-2012, 11:45 AM
The referee should have huddled everyone and made the final call himself. I still don't know if it was "reviewed" as Jerry Seaman said that it's not a call that can be reviewed by replay. It was botched in every sense

But aren't all scoring plays now automatically reviewed?

bucksfan2
09-25-2012, 11:58 AM
I can.

It was a tough call, but that wasn't the problem. The biggest problem with the call was that two refs called it differently at the same time. One signaled touchdown, one signaled interception. That has happened a few times in the past, and when that happens, the umpire huddles with everyone, reviews it and the right call is made.

That is not what happened last night. The umpire incorrectly went with the touchdown call immediately, ignored the interception call, and then ruled there wasn't enough evidence to overturn it. That's not the proper procedure, and the reason why it was such a mess.

I agree that there should have been a huddle and the call shouldn't have been made right away. However after watching the play if the one official has TD and the other had INT I don't know if the outcome changes. Its my understanding that simultaneous possession goes to the offensive player. Once the play has been completed and the officials deem simultaneous possession it doesn't matter who ends up with the ball. I have seen many times when both an offensive player and defensive player have the ball, go to the ground, the defensive player wrestles the ball away but the catch is awarded to the WR.

Watching the replay for the first time it appeared as if the DB first had the ball in the air with Tate having an arm on the ball. As they went to the ground both players were wrestling for possession of the ball. When they went to the ground the DB had leverage and pulled the ball away from Tate. I can't be certain and say the incorrect call after the fact. I can see the argument made for simultaneous possession and wouldn't be shocked if the regular refs would have made that call after the fact.

I said above it isn't the actual game calls that are bothering me about the refs its their handling of the situation and letting things get out of control. Make the call, stick to your guns, and avoid the coaches and players. The regular refs, regardless of a right or wrong call do that.

Todd Gack
09-25-2012, 12:00 PM
That's like saying in the 1990's that the Reds pitchers and defense gave up some runs, then in the 2000's they also gave up some runs, so nothing changed.

I know, these refs aren't as good. But there were plenty of games in the past decided by crappy calls. Let's not act as if the normal refs were great at their job too.

Todd Gack
09-25-2012, 12:10 PM
I can.

It was a tough call, but that wasn't the problem. The biggest problem with the call was that two refs called it differently at the same time. One signaled touchdown, one signaled interception. That has happened a few times in the past, and when that happens, the umpire huddles with everyone, reviews it and the right call is made.

That is not what happened last night. The umpire incorrectly went with the touchdown call immediately, ignored the interception call, and then ruled there wasn't enough evidence to overturn it. That's not the proper procedure, and the reason why it was such a mess.

So would the replacement refs have ruled Calvin Johnson's TD a catch vs the Bears last year? What about Bustin's "hard hit" on the Tampa Bay QB that happened like 4 years ago. Regular refs make horrible calls ALL THE TIME.

Sea Ray
09-25-2012, 12:35 PM
I agree that there should have been a huddle and the call shouldn't have been made right away. However after watching the play if the one official has TD and the other had INT I don't know if the outcome changes. Its my understanding that simultaneous possession goes to the offensive player. Once the play has been completed and the officials deem simultaneous possession it doesn't matter who ends up with the ball. I have seen many times when both an offensive player and defensive player have the ball, go to the ground, the defensive player wrestles the ball away but the catch is awarded to the WR.

Watching the replay for the first time it appeared as if the DB first had the ball in the air with Tate having an arm on the ball. As they went to the ground both players were wrestling for possession of the ball. When they went to the ground the DB had leverage and pulled the ball away from Tate. I can't be certain and say the incorrect call after the fact. I can see the argument made for simultaneous possession and wouldn't be shocked if the regular refs would have made that call after the fact.

I said above it isn't the actual game calls that are bothering me about the refs its their handling of the situation and letting things get out of control. Make the call, stick to your guns, and avoid the coaches and players. The regular refs, regardless of a right or wrong call do that.

By rule it was not a simultaneous catch. Jennings caught it and Tate got an arm on it as he was going down. By rule that does not qualify as a simultaneous catch:


Rule 8 - Section 3 - Article 1 - Item 5: Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball.

Sea Ray
09-25-2012, 12:37 PM
But aren't all scoring plays now automatically reviewed?

Sure they're reviewed but not everything can be looked at. For instance they couldn't look at whether Tate pushed off. In this case they can only look at whether the ball hit the ground or whether a player was out of bounds while catching it.

kaldaniels
09-25-2012, 12:43 PM
I'd like to give a shout out to sportsbook.com for refunding my bet on GB.

Playadlc
09-25-2012, 12:55 PM
ESPN is just throwing gas on the fire with about 4 referee articles on the front page headlines.

They even have an article about how much money sports bettors lost. Like this is the first bad call to ever cost people money.

Everyone needs to back off.

VR
09-25-2012, 01:10 PM
I don't know....I certainly think they both grabbed the ball at the same time, the defender just appeared to have 2/3 possession.
The officials in the replay booth were not replacement, they are permanent officials.

OesterPoster
09-25-2012, 01:16 PM
So would the replacement refs have ruled Calvin Johnson's TD a catch vs the Bears last year? What about Bustin's "hard hit" on the Tampa Bay QB that happened like 4 years ago. Regular refs make horrible calls ALL THE TIME.

True, but do the regular refs march off incorrect yardage on penalties? Do they incorrectly award extra timeouts? Do they apply incorrect rules interpretations? Maybe once a year, maybe once every other year. But this year, it's happening multiple times every single week...sometimes more than once in a single game.

Slyder
09-25-2012, 01:16 PM
I don't know....I certainly think they both grabbed the ball at the same time, the defender just appeared to have 2/3 possession.
The officials in the replay booth were not replacement, they are permanent officials.

The Green Bay player got it first and established possession THEN Tate reached in. IMO.

Worst blunder since Snow Job.

WMR
09-25-2012, 01:57 PM
I heard on the radio that the total dollar amount the two sides are fighting over is less than six million. You've got a multi billion dollar industry and are willing to allow your league to look like a national joke for, comparatively, pennies?

VR
09-25-2012, 02:01 PM
I heard on the radio that the total dollar amount the two sides are fighting over is less than six million. You've got a multi billion dollar industry and are willing to allow your league to look like a national joke for, comparatively, pennies?

Well, that is a bit of a strawman. 12 million is also pennies, why not just give them that?

I think both sides need to come to an amicable solution and meet somewhere in the middle. Once they do that, officials need to have a much more significant review process that weeds out the individuals who have poor performance.

WMR
09-25-2012, 02:02 PM
Well, that is a bit of a strawman. 12 million is also pennies, why not just give them that?

I think both sides need to come to an amicable solution and meet somewhere in the middle. Once they do that, officials need to have a much more significant review process that weeds out the individuals who have poor performance.

It's not 12 million though, it's six. Lock them in for the next 10 years and stop allowing your league to look like a complete joke.

Caveat Emperor
09-25-2012, 02:08 PM
It's not 12 million though, it's six. Lock them in for the next 10 years and stop allowing your league to look like a complete joke.

The issues is pensions. The NFL doesn't want to give officials pensions while, simultaneously, denying it the rest of league employees.

Todd Gack
09-25-2012, 02:10 PM
And what's with this "THERE SHOULD'VE BEEN PI CALLED ON THAT PLAY TOO!"" baloney?

That happens on every single hail mary pass. When is that ever called?

VR
09-25-2012, 02:16 PM
It's not 12 million though, it's six. Lock them in for the next 10 years and stop allowing your league to look like a complete joke.

I think it's the justification of that 6 million that causes the difference of opinions.

JayStubbs
09-25-2012, 02:31 PM
I wonder how Scott Walker feels about this union battle? ;)

757690
09-25-2012, 02:40 PM
I know, these refs aren't as good. But there were plenty of games in the past decided by crappy calls. Let's not act as if the normal refs were great at their job too.

I agree the normal refs were pretty bad. Which is all the more reason for the League to make them full time employees. That way, they can dedicate their offseason to becoming better refs, instead of having to take on another job.

dougdirt
09-25-2012, 02:45 PM
Just saw this tweet. Not sure about the validity of the statement, but nonetheless:

Just a reminder: The @nfl is locking out the real refs to save $62k per team. That's about how much each team sells in pretzels per game.

kaldaniels
09-25-2012, 03:03 PM
And what's with this "THERE SHOULD'VE BEEN PI CALLED ON THAT PLAY TOO!"" baloney?

That happens on every single hail mary pass. When is that ever called?

It's not nearly that blatant on most hail marys.

If Tate caught that clean there would still be a big uproar today, maybe not quite as bad.

bucksfan2
09-25-2012, 03:08 PM
I agree the normal refs were pretty bad. Which is all the more reason for the League to make them full time employees. That way, they can dedicate their offseason to becoming better refs, instead of having to take on another job.

If your a NFL ref making roughly $150K a season for less than 20 weeks worth, are you going to give a consulting job? A lawyer job? A spokesman job? An engineering job?

kaldaniels
09-25-2012, 03:20 PM
I'd like to give a shout out to sportsbook.com for refunding my bet on GB.

It was not true! No one should ever use sportsbook.com! :D

757690
09-25-2012, 03:21 PM
If your a NFL ref making roughly $150K a season for less than 20 weeks worth, are you going to give a consulting job? A lawyer job? A spokesman job? An engineering job?

The league wants them to be full time employees. Right now most are not. Most have second jobs. The issues they are debating are how to do that. And with all labor disputes, it's not about what's fair, it's about what the employees are worth to the company. The first three weeks are showing that the refs are worth more then than league thought they were.

VR
09-25-2012, 03:22 PM
It's not nearly that blatant on most hail marys.

If Tate caught that clean there would still be a big uproar today, maybe not quite as bad.

If PI was called, it would have been both ways.....as the other Seattle receiver was mugged by 3 defenders.

But yeah, it's rarely called....which is a gray area that I think is fair.

kaldaniels
09-25-2012, 03:27 PM
If PI was called, it would have been both ways.....as the other Seattle receiver was mugged by 3 defenders.

But yeah, it's rarely called....which is a gray area that I think is fair.

In reality, if the ball falls incomplete, no one would care.

But had the guy who gave a shove in the back wound up catching it there would be uproar.

The onus really is on the offense to make a clean catch, dirty play in the end zone is ignored if it is picked or goes incomplete. Just the way it goes. Unless you are the Browns, who lost to Detroit recently on a defensive PI in the end zone (which was blatant). :D

Sea Ray
09-25-2012, 04:20 PM
If PI was called, it would have been both ways.....as the other Seattle receiver was mugged by 3 defenders.



I didn't see that. Do you have a link to a video that shows it?

Roy Tucker
09-25-2012, 04:33 PM
Don Banks at SI had a good line... "... ending was straight out of a Buffalo Wild Wings commercial".

Sea Ray
09-25-2012, 04:57 PM
Pete Carroll seems to think that the NFL has ruled that the call in the end zone was correct:


"We were fortunate the call went our way. But you've got to say the league reviewed it and said they agreed with what was called on the field, they just missed the pass interference."

I don't think that's exactly what they said. They basically said they didn't want to get into whether the call was correct or not but that they supported the system and that they wouldn't suggest the replay booth overturn that call

VR
09-25-2012, 05:30 PM
I didn't see that. Do you have a link to a video that shows it?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000066172/article/nfl-admits-game-should-have-ended-on-tate-penalty?module=HP11_headline_stack

Sea Ray
09-26-2012, 11:25 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000066172/article/nfl-admits-game-should-have-ended-on-tate-penalty?module=HP11_headline_stack

Are you talking about the Seattle receiver, #14? I don't see any interference. The Green Bay players were going for the ball and that makes it perfectly legal.

NJReds
09-26-2012, 11:29 AM
nm

VR
09-26-2012, 02:25 PM
Are you talking about the Seattle receiver, #14? I don't see any interference. The Green Bay players were going for the ball and that makes it perfectly legal.

It's not as blatant as Golden's, but yes...it is in fact PI by #24.

texasdave
09-26-2012, 02:30 PM
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/09/26/report-nfl-refs-reach-agreement-refs-could-return-for-week-4/

Ref strike could be over.

Sea Ray
09-26-2012, 02:36 PM
It's not as blatant as Golden's, but yes...it is in fact PI by #24.

I'm sure you're in the extreme minority on that one. With all the publicity about this and all the talk it's generated, you're the first I've heard that saw PI on the Packers.

I see a bunch of guys looking at and jumping for the ball which makes it a legal play whereas Golden Tate's shove off was well before he was going for the ball.

Mutaman
09-26-2012, 03:10 PM
Pete Carroll seems to think that the NFL has ruled that the call in the end zone was correct:



I don't think that's exactly what they said. They basically said they didn't want to get into whether the call was correct or not but that they supported the system and that they wouldn't suggest the replay booth overturn that call

One thing history has taught us: Pete Carroll is an honest man who plays by the rules and can be trusted.

Stray
09-26-2012, 03:14 PM
I think you have to look at how bad the refs were overall. The Packers got some horrible calls go their way on their go ahead touchdown drive. The Seahawks got a horrible call to go their way at the end of the game to win. It's hard when the game is messed up that bad by officiating, but from watching the entire game I feel like the right team won. Seattle outplayed Green Bay and deserved it.

I know it's a weird way to look at the games since they're decided on the field, but when there are so many bad game changing calls it's hard to figure out.

Mutaman
09-26-2012, 03:50 PM
Seattle outplayed Green Bay and deserved it.

Guess you went to bed at halftime.

Sea Ray
09-26-2012, 04:20 PM
I think you have to look at how bad the refs were overall. The Packers got some horrible calls go their way on their go ahead touchdown drive. The Seahawks got a horrible call to go their way at the end of the game to win. It's hard when the game is messed up that bad by officiating, but from watching the entire game I feel like the right team won. Seattle outplayed Green Bay and deserved it.

I know it's a weird way to look at the games since they're decided on the field, but when there are so many bad game changing calls it's hard to figure out.

I understand your point that there were horrendous calls that went both ways but in the end Seattle only "earned" 7 points. I think with decent officiating Aaron Rodgers and the Pack would have scored more than 7 pts.

RedsBaron
09-26-2012, 04:36 PM
One thing history has taught us: Pete Carroll is an honest man who plays by the rules and can be trusted.

:laugh:

Reds Freak
09-26-2012, 05:52 PM
I think it will be pretty funny when the strike is over and we realize that the real refs are pretty crappy too. I'd say the NFL is nearly impossible to officiate well.

Sea Ray
09-26-2012, 05:53 PM
I think it will be pretty funny when the strike is over and we realize that the real refs are pretty crappy too. I'd say the NFL is nearly impossible to officiate well.

It is but at least the real refs will know how to run off 10 seconds and count to 3 time outs

Stray
09-26-2012, 06:36 PM
I understand your point that there were horrendous calls that went both ways but in the end Seattle only "earned" 7 points. I think with decent officiating Aaron Rodgers and the Pack would have scored more than 7 pts.

A horrible defensive PI call extended the Packers go ahead touchdown drive...and I think it was on 3rd down. I disagree about Rodgers putting up more points with the real refs, their problem was they couldn't block Seattle's D-Line. There were tons of holding calls GB got away with as well.

In the end I think the officiating was so bad that it's almost impossible to figure out. I just think that by looking at the whole game I feel like Seattle played better.

Redsfaithful
09-26-2012, 08:48 PM
It is but at least the real refs will know how to run off 10 seconds and count to 3 time outs

Exactly. Arguing that the real refs aren't perfect is a huge strawman, nobody is claiming they are. But they are the best we are going to get, and these replacements have been awful.

Sea Ray
09-26-2012, 11:19 PM
It now looks as if this thing will get settled and we'll have the real officials back in time for Sunday's games and maybe even in time for tomorrow night's game.

Anyone who's been watching ESPN this past week knows that their "insiders" led by Adam Schefter have been saying that once it's settled, they'll need a week or more to get back on the field due to training issues, physicals, travel etc.

Well now it seems that those insiders didn't know what the heck they were talking about. It seems that the physicals have already been done as has the training on the new rules and all, hence the new projections of getting them on the field immediately.

Chalk another one up for ESPN...:(

Reds Freak
09-26-2012, 11:57 PM
It is but at least the real refs will know how to run off 10 seconds and count to 3 time outs

I completely understand what you're saying and I hope the real refs get back soon too. But I'm just saying don't forget real refs once blew a coin toss, real refs said that Tom Brady threw an incomplete pass against Oakland and a real ref said that Justin Smith sacked someone too hard...

CTA513
09-27-2012, 12:20 AM
I hope the broadcasters and people at espn, nbc etc. keep pointing out the mistakes when the real refs return like they made sure to do with the the replacement refs.

Chip R
09-27-2012, 02:00 AM
I hope the broadcasters and people at espn, nbc etc. keep pointing out the mistakes when the real refs return like they made sure to do with the the replacement refs.

I'm sure they will. They certainly haven't been shy about doing it in the past.

No one believes the regular officials were or will be perfect. But they are the best that there are and the players and the fans deserve to have the best officials out there. They are going to make mistakes. They may even cost a team a game because of a bad call. But at least they will be the best they have out there and not incompetents.

Razor Shines
09-27-2012, 02:08 AM
I was kinda looking forward to another week of the replacement refs. Some more defensive holding "on 93 red", "5 year penalty" for 12 men in the huddle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Slyder
09-27-2012, 02:14 AM
I'm sure they will. They certainly haven't been shy about doing it in the past.

No one believes the regular officials were or will be perfect. But they are the best that there are and the players and the fans deserve to have the best officials out there. They are going to make mistakes. They may even cost a team a game because of a bad call. But at least they will be the best they have out there and not incompetents.

Whats the odds that the Raiders have more penalties this week with the "real" officials than they had the previous 3 weeks combined (14 for those who are wondering).

Sea Ray
09-27-2012, 09:59 AM
I completely understand what you're saying and I hope the real refs get back soon too. But I'm just saying don't forget real refs once blew a coin toss, real refs said that Tom Brady threw an incomplete pass against Oakland and a real ref said that Justin Smith sacked someone too hard...

Real refs make bad calls indeed. We all understand that.

The Tom Brady call was correct according to the rulebook. If they'd called it a fumble it would have gone against the "Tuck Rule".

fearofpopvol1
09-27-2012, 02:58 PM
Real refs make bad calls indeed. We all understand that.

The Tom Brady call was correct according to the rulebook. If they'd called it a fumble it would have gone against the "Tuck Rule".

It may have been the correct call, but that doesn't mean it's not a bad rule.

Sea Ray
09-27-2012, 03:17 PM
It may have been the correct call, but that doesn't mean it's not a bad rule.

What would be bad is if the officials only enforced rules that they deemed to be good ones. There are a lot of NFL rules that I don't agree with but that's another discussion. It's not bad officiating if they enforce the rulebook

Wonderful Monds
09-27-2012, 03:21 PM
I completely understand what you're saying and I hope the real refs get back soon too. But I'm just saying don't forget real refs once blew a coin toss, real refs said that Tom Brady threw an incomplete pass against Oakland and a real ref said that Justin Smith sacked someone too hard...

Those things happened over a period of years.


We've already had the same number of egregious errors this season, over the course of 3 games.

Sea Ray
09-27-2012, 05:24 PM
The official that threw up his hands signaling TD still says that his call was right:


Easley said Packers safety M.D. Jennings never had independent possession of the ball. He said it was clearly a case of simultaneous possession with Seahawks wide receiver Golden Tate, which means the reception goes to the offensive player. "You have to not only have the ball but have either 2 feet or a body part on the ground, and that never happened," Easley said, referencing Jennings’ interception attempt.

"Put any other official who knows the rules and they would make the same call," he added.

Easley, a banker from Santa Maria, Calif., who officiates junior college games in southern California, defended the quality of work by the replacement refs.

"We did a damn good job ... for the most part," he said.





http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-09-27/replacement-official-packers-seahawks-final-play-call-golden-tate

If that's the way you see it old man, I say good riddance

CTA513
09-27-2012, 05:54 PM
The official that threw up his hands signaling TD still says that his call was right:







http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-09-27/replacement-official-packers-seahawks-final-play-call-golden-tate

If that's the way you see it old man, I say good riddance

Not willing to admit they were wrong? sounds like he would fit right in with the regular refs.

Slyder
09-27-2012, 06:05 PM
The official that threw up his hands signaling TD still says that his call was right:







http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-09-27/replacement-official-packers-seahawks-final-play-call-golden-tate

If that's the way you see it old man, I say good riddance

Every sport has their Doug Dinkengers (St Louis/KC World Series blunder).

Sea Ray
09-28-2012, 09:02 AM
I thought the officiating looked great last in Baltimore. It gave me the feeling of the Principal returning after the students took over his office for a few days. Order, calmness and maturity returned. That ref was one of the NFL's best.

ESPN seems infatuated with Ed Hochuli so for whatever it's worth, they announced that the Bengals will get him this week in Jacksonville. I think Ed's pretty good but there are others I'd rank above him

Hoosier Red
09-28-2012, 01:18 PM
I thought the officiating looked great last in Baltimore. It gave me the feeling of the Principal returning after the students took over his office for a few days. Order, calmness and maturity returned. That ref was one of the NFL's best.

ESPN seems infatuated with Ed Hochuli so for whatever it's worth, they announced that the Bengals will get him this week in Jacksonville. I think Ed's pretty good but there are others I'd rank above him

I agree.
Any ref who gets to the point where you know his name has probably done something to deserve the notoriety. In that vein, I'd knock Hochuli and Mike Carey down a few pegs out of principle.

Redsfaithful
09-29-2012, 06:03 AM
Hochuli is known because of his physique and his drawn out explanations of penalties I think. I could be wrong.

VR
10-01-2012, 02:04 PM
The Saints/ Pack game may have had more blown calls than any of the replacement games.....pretty scary.

Todd Gack
10-02-2012, 11:24 PM
the saints/ pack game may have had more blown calls than any of the replacement games.....pretty scary.

but the replacement refs suck!!!!!

Slyder
10-02-2012, 11:54 PM
but the replacement refs suck!!!!!

This is why I made the comments I did in the overrated thread. The NFL has the absolute WORST collection of umpires/referees in sports and honestly its not close.

bucksfan2
10-03-2012, 10:12 AM
This is why I made the comments I did in the overrated thread. The NFL has the absolute WORST collection of umpires/referees in sports and honestly its not close.

The NFL has done a poor job of getting rid of its poor refs and replacing them with better refs. They say they have a ranking system that downgrades crews and doesn't allow them to work in the post season. That fine and dandy but it still doesn't prevent bad officials from working key games.

A big pet peeve of mine is with the explosion of the NFL the refs have become sideshows themselves. When a guy like Ed Hochuli is known for his biceps or his first down calls I have an issue with it. The greatest compliment you can give a ref is you didn't notice him on the field. The NFL head refs almost been branding themselves lately instead of worrying about their profession.

Sea Ray
10-03-2012, 08:08 PM
This is why I made the comments I did in the overrated thread. The NFL has the absolute WORST collection of umpires/referees in sports and honestly its not close.

I think a lot of it are the rules. I think the NFL is the toughest sport to officiate. I mean do we really know what's a

1) Late hit?
2) Pass interference?
3) Holding?

improbus
10-03-2012, 08:23 PM
I think a lot of it are the rules. I think the NFL is the toughest sport to officiate. I mean do we really know what's a

1) Late hit?
2) Pass interference?
3) Holding?
I would argue that the block/charge in hoops is as hard if not harder to call. Also, pass interference can have a bigger impact on an individual play, but in basketball, a ref's choices on a 50/50 call can actually force a coach to remove a player from the game. The only thing that is even close is soccer with the card system.

Slyder
10-03-2012, 08:40 PM
The NFL has done a poor job of getting rid of its poor refs and replacing them with better refs. They say they have a ranking system that downgrades crews and doesn't allow them to work in the post season. That fine and dandy but it still doesn't prevent bad officials from working key games.

A big pet peeve of mine is with the explosion of the NFL the refs have become sideshows themselves. When a guy like Ed Hochuli is known for his biceps or his first down calls I have an issue with it. The greatest compliment you can give a ref is you didn't notice him on the field. The NFL head refs almost been branding themselves lately instead of worrying about their profession.

I think also that is part of the reason the NFL wanted to increase the number of crews I think from 17 to 20 as a means to try and weed out some of the poorer crews/refs.

Revering4Blue
10-03-2012, 09:01 PM
I would argue that the block/charge in hoops is as hard if not harder to call. Also, pass interference can have a bigger impact on an individual play, but in basketball, a ref's choices on a 50/50 call can actually force a coach to remove a player from the game. The only thing that is even close is soccer with the card system.

I agree.

Granted--and I've stated this previously--a team (Football or Basketball) simply needs to score enough points when it has a chance, not leaving the outcome up to the Officials. That stated, Sea Ray's point about counting off the correct yardage and getting the amount of timeouts correct is spot-on. There is no excuse in either case.

IMHO, for the reasons/situations that Improbus presented, I firmly believe that Officials are more likely to be in a position to influence the outcome of a Basketball game more often than a Football game. Again, that is just a personal opinion.

bucksfan2
10-04-2012, 09:58 AM
To back up my point of NFL officials becoming celebrities Ed Hochuli is on the cover of SI.

The two things that the NFL officials do better is keep the flow of the game going and have a firm knowledge of the rules. For the most part I don't think the replacement refs made any more questionable or awful calls than the usual refs do. They did let the game get out of control at times and didn't understand some of small intricacies of the rules.

Newport Red
10-08-2012, 03:42 PM
Green Bay can't blame the replacement refs if they miss the playoffs anymore.

Sea Ray
10-08-2012, 04:43 PM
Green Bay can't blame the replacement refs if they miss the playoffs anymore.

Sure they can. For instance if they tie with Seattle

Razor Shines
10-08-2012, 04:44 PM
I thought this was one of the worst weeks for NFL officiating I've ever seen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

VottoFan54
11-04-2012, 06:35 PM
The refs missed two calls on Big Ben's fumble that the Giants took back for a TD. It wasn't a fumble and there was a pretty obvious clipping that went uncalled at the end of the play. The refs gave the Giants 7 points on that one.

NJReds
11-04-2012, 06:55 PM
The refs missed two calls on Big Ben's fumble that the Giants took back for a TD. It wasn't a fumble and there was a pretty obvious clipping that went uncalled at the end of the play. The refs gave the Giants 7 points on that one.

The roughing the passer in the end zone against Cruz wasn't the correct call, either. Nor was the Giants first touchdown the correct call.