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sonny
09-15-2012, 05:58 PM
Well, we're three games in and I didn't see a definitive OSU thread so here we go.

I see the biggest issues with this team right now is consistency and rhythm.
Offensively, Braxton seems so confident and unstoppable on one play, and the next so erratic and bewildered. Perhaps we can chalk it up to youth, but the eyes tell me he could use a little more preparation coming into gameday.

Defensively, the linebackers are the weak point. Shazier likes to go for the big hit but misplays a lot of runs. The LBs are young but this is big boy football.

I can see an improved team over last year (obviously) but I can see 8-9 wins this year with a big step forward next year.

cincrazy
09-15-2012, 08:26 PM
The secondary really struggles, and the running game has yet to really gain traction. The passing game is improved, but Braxton is too inaccurate. A lot of drives end because of his inability to move the chains with his arm. He has to get better there. The team is definitely improved from last year, but a long way off from where Urban will eventually have it.

max venable
09-16-2012, 01:36 AM
The Cal game should serve as a wake-up call to everyone. Either the Bucks aren't as good as we thought they were or they just had an off-day and found a way to win (like good teams do).

Negatives from the Cal game:

Defense...especially the rush defense
Tackling. Yikes.
Braxton's accuracy


Positives:

6 sacks...good to seem them applying pressure (but they did have to blitz more in order to get them)
As mentioned, they found a way to win
Shazier...beast vs. Cal
Jordan Hall looks healthy


Feel free to add to either list

BuckeyeRed27
09-17-2012, 11:50 AM
They are a work in progress. You can really see moments on both sides of the ball where they look like a Top 5 teams, but there is no consistency there right now. Braxton is progressing, but if he is forced to pass isn't comfortable yet. The LB are pretty average. Shazier is a great player, but seems like he is going for the big hit instead of the best play and that directly led to one of the big TDs Saturday.

I still think they could win 11 games, but that has more to do with the Big 10 being terrible.

sonny
09-22-2012, 07:05 PM
It's gonna be a long B1G season I'd OSU continues to play like this.

GAC
09-23-2012, 06:15 AM
That game yesterday vs an 0-2 UAB team was painful to watch. Myers cannot be too happy, even coming away with the victory. C'mon Fickle! 400 total yards by UAB vs our 347, time of possession - almost 34 minutes for UAB vs 26 for OSU. Do we have any LBers? We had no answers as they were pretty much moving up and down the field on us. 100 yd in penalties and 2 turnovers by UAB was the difference. They stopped themselves. The game was a lot closer then the score.

Braxton, so far from what I've seen, is IMO another very athletic option QB who can't throw down field with accuracy.

Revering4Blue
09-23-2012, 11:13 AM
It's gonna be a long B1G season I'd OSU continues to play like this.

Speaking as a fan of another Big Ten school, I disagree.

Other than possibly Nebraska with a healthy Burkhead, there isn't a better Big Ten team out there--though, that may not be saying much.

I'm not sold on Wisconsin or Michigan State at all, not with predictable offenses resembling bad NFL teams.

Reds Fanatic
09-23-2012, 11:25 AM
I did not see yesterday's game but was shocked how close that was. I saw a recent poll on the 25 worst teams in division I and UAB was on the list. OSU went into that game yesteray as a 5 touchdown favorite.

The Big Ten as a whole looks pitiful this year.

sonny
09-23-2012, 12:28 PM
Speaking as a fan of another Big Ten school, I disagree.

Other than possibly Nebraska with a healthy Burkhead, there isn't a better Big Ten team out there--though, that may not be saying much.

I'm not sold on Wisconsin or Michigan State at all, not with predictable offenses resembling bad NFL teams.

Yup, as far as the whole conference is concerned its going to be a long season. Watching any team this year could result in some serious channel surfing.

GAC
09-24-2012, 05:24 AM
The Big Ten as a whole looks pitiful this year.

Wholeheartedly agree. And who have any of theses Big10 teams, in the first few weeks of the season, played quality-wise? Michigan is probably the only one (Alabama, ND).

LoganBuck
09-24-2012, 02:41 PM
The Ohio State defense is the problem here people. They can't get off the field. The safeties have been the worst group at Ohio State for about 3 years now. The corners do a decent job, but they are beat up. The linebacker play is terrible, and the defensive line is a mix of guys that are hurt and probably will be all year, John Hankins, and an armada of talented true freshman. The pass rush has been very poor. The hope is that the defense gels with experience and gets better as the year goes on.

The offense has room for improvement, but this group is light years better than the disaster that was last season.

LoganBuck
09-24-2012, 02:42 PM
Wholeheartedly agree. And who have any of theses Big10 teams, in the first few weeks of the season, played quality-wise? Michigan is probably the only one (Alabama, ND).

Cal isn't terrible. They held their own at USC on Saturday.

BuckeyeRed27
09-24-2012, 02:46 PM
The Ohio State defense is the problem here people. They can't get off the field. The safeties have been the worst group at Ohio State for about 3 years now. The corners do a decent job, but they are beat up. The linebacker play is terrible, and the defensive line is a mix of guys that are hurt and probably will be all year, John Hankins, and an armada of talented true freshman. The pass rush has been very poor. The hope is that the defense gels with experience and gets better as the year goes on.

The offense has room for improvement, but this group is light years better than the disaster that was last season.

I agree with this some. The pass rush has been terrible because we have played teams that have either moved the QB around or have thrown very quick passes. That said it would be nice to see a little bit more pressure, but I think this has been a little overstated. This MSU game will be interesting because I think we are set up well to stop more of a power attack and haven't faced one until this coming weekend.

I'll agree that the LB play has not been good and is with out a doubt the weak spot of the entire team. There is talent there, but for some reason it isn't working.

bucksfan2
09-24-2012, 03:00 PM
I was at the game Saturday and it sure wasn't what I expected. The UAB offense was good and effective when they stayed in good down and distance. For the life of me I don't understand why OSU played the corners off so far when UAB was throwing WR screen after WR screen. For all the flack the defense is getting they didn't allow UAB to score a TD.

Braxton and the offense need to be more consistent at staying on the field and converting first downs.

sonny
10-05-2012, 10:44 AM
Under the lights at the Shoe, the buckeyes are 7-3.

Last week, the defense seemed to click a little better, but Braxton needs to make better decisions to beat Nebraska. When the season starts, I thought this could be a game they lose. But the B1G this year is so bad that you really can't predict anything.

Red Buckeye
10-05-2012, 11:01 AM
I expect the Buckeyes too play inspired and for the 'Shoe to be rockin!

I think this team, while not elite but having the advantage of having Urb as their head coach, just might run the table this year.

As for Saturday, I am going to say:

tOSU 34


NU 21



O-H!

BuckeyeRed27
10-05-2012, 04:57 PM
I expect OSU to win this game. If the UCLA game is any indication, Nebraska has an awful defense and Braxton is the best player they will have faced all year. They will score, but we will score more. 38-21.

dougdirt
10-05-2012, 05:53 PM
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8466428/ohio-state-buckeyes-cardale-jones-tweets-classes-pointless

Ohio State third-string quarterback Cardale Jones made his feelings about attending classes clear Friday on Twitter.

"Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL classes are POINTLESS," he wrote.

dougdirt
10-05-2012, 05:54 PM
To be honest though, I agree with him. It is crazy that he is basically forced to go to school to do something that really doesn't require him to go to school. He doesn't want to be a doctor, or a teacher or anything else. He wants to be a football player. The schools and the NFL take advantage of these guys (same for the NBA). Drives me crazy.

Boston Red
10-05-2012, 06:16 PM
They take advantage of them....and provide them opportunities that wouldn't otherwise be available to them. If Ohio State football didn't exist, who would give a damn who Cardale Jones is?

It's pretty much a win/win.

dougdirt
10-05-2012, 06:32 PM
They take advantage of them....and provide them opportunities that wouldn't otherwise be available to them. If Ohio State football didn't exist, who would give a damn who Cardale Jones is?

It's pretty much a win/win.

I bet some NFL teams would give a crap who Jones is. Instead, he is forced to go do something he doesn't want to do, in order to try and do something he does want to do. It is a big win for the colleges who turn it into a billion dollar a year industry, a big win for the NFL who doesn't have to have a minor league system and a big loss for athletes who truly don't care to go to school, but are forced to.

Boston Red
10-05-2012, 07:00 PM
How is it a loss for the athletes? What are they losing? No one would be reading his tweets to know that he's a moron if Ohio State football didn't exist.

dougdirt
10-05-2012, 07:05 PM
How is it a loss for the athletes? What are they losing? No one would be reading his tweets to know that he's a moron if Ohio State football didn't exist.

What are they losing? Besides money and potentially a career because they chose the wrong school and wind up a back up, or their coach leaves and goes to a system not suited for their talents at all or a major injury that had it happened as a pro, wouldn't have ended their chances? Besides that, I guess they aren't losing anything. But those are pretty high stakes for something that a lot of these guys really don't want to do. A lot of these guys just want to play football. Let them. Why force them into something they don't want to do other than to line your pockets with all kinds of cash?

BuckeyeRed27
10-05-2012, 07:38 PM
What are they losing? Besides money and potentially a career because they chose the wrong school and wind up a back up, or their coach leaves and goes to a system not suited for their talents at all or a major injury that had it happened as a pro, wouldn't have ended their chances? Besides that, I guess they aren't losing anything. But those are pretty high stakes for something that a lot of these guys really don't want to do. A lot of these guys just want to play football. Let them. Why force them into something they don't want to do other than to line your pockets with all kinds of cash?

I might be misinterpreting what you are saying, but are you arguing that if not for the requirement that he attend college the Ohio State's third string QB would be an NFL QB right now?

Redsfaithful
10-05-2012, 07:41 PM
Obviously there would be minor league football if the college system didn't exist. People follow minor league baseball players. Unless you're saying a kid on scholarship to play QB at Ohio State wouldn't get a look in a minor league football system, which is ridiculous.

dougdirt
10-05-2012, 08:27 PM
I might be misinterpreting what you are saying, but are you arguing that if not for the requirement that he attend college the Ohio State's third string QB would be an NFL QB right now?

No, I am suggesting without being forced to go to college, the NFL would have to have some type of development system and that this kid would have very likely had a chance to do that, rather than be literally be forced to do something he doesn't want to do, in order to go forward with what he does want to do. And that thing being forced upon him has literally no bearing on him honing his skillset for what he wants to do with his future. College isn't for everyone. But for athletes who want to play in the NBA or NFL, it is forced upon them.

BuckeyeRed27
10-05-2012, 08:34 PM
No, I am suggesting without being forced to go to college, the NFL would have to have some type of development system and that this kid would have very likely had a chance to do that, rather than be literally be forced to do something he doesn't want to do, in order to go forward with what he does want to do. And that thing being forced upon him has literally no bearing on him honing his skillset for what he wants to do with his future. College isn't for everyone. But for athletes who want to play in the NBA or NFL, it is forced upon them.

Got it. That's a fair point. However I would argue that, while I agree that college isn't for everyone, Jones gets to go to college for free. He doesn't have the risk that the Average Joe does of putting themselves into debt for the benefit of an education.

I'd also argue that if you are the 3rd string QB at any college, you're chances of making it in the NFL are pretty slim. Maybe he should take advantage of the educational opportunity that is presented to him that he has earned with his athletic abilities?

dougdirt
10-05-2012, 08:38 PM
Got it. That's a fair point. However I would argue that, while I agree that college isn't for everyone, Jones gets to go to college for free. He doesn't have the risk that the Average Joe does of putting themselves into debt for the benefit of an education.

I'd also argue that if you are the 3rd string QB at any college, you're chances of making it in the NFL are pretty slim. Maybe he should take advantage of the educational opportunity that is presented to him that he has earned with his athletic abilities?

A lot of really good players were 3rd string at some point in college, especially at schools like Ohio State. Jones was what, a Top 30 QB coming out of high school? A guy like that gets a look in a system where the NFL has to develop the talent.

I am all for furthering ones education. But why force adults to if they don't want to?

dabvu2498
10-05-2012, 08:49 PM
Something tells me that if there were some kind of development program/minor leagues for the NFL, Mr. Jones wouldn't care for all the "outside work" commitments that go with being a pro athlete. It speaks far more about the maturity level of the kid than it does about the system.

The kid knew what he signed up for when he signed his LOI... Student-athlete. No one twisted his arm to go play college football.

That said, the kid was probably just having a crappy day and happened to vent in a public way. Totally inappropriate, but not worthy of some of the outrage it's getting. Hopefully he learns from his mistake and has a great career at OSU and beyond.

I know when I was a frosh in college, I felt pretty similarly. And I wasn't trying to play big-time football.

dougdirt
10-05-2012, 09:26 PM
Something tells me that if there were some kind of development program/minor leagues for the NFL, Mr. Jones wouldn't care for all the "outside work" commitments that go with being a pro athlete. It speaks far more about the maturity level of the kid than it does about the system.


There is a difference between outside work for football, and school work simply because you want to play football. If he were a minor league football player, his outside work would be what it is right now, except without the school work. And he would be getting paid.

WMR
10-05-2012, 09:36 PM
He should go up to Canada and join the CFL if being a rockstar at Ohio State and getting a free world-class education isn't up his alley.

dabvu2498
10-05-2012, 09:47 PM
There is a difference between outside work for football, and school work simply because you want to play football. If he were a minor league football player, his outside work would be what it is right now, except without the school work. And he would be getting paid.

He is being compensated, however.

But my other point is, the kid knew he was going to have to deal with academics when he signed his LOI. That was his choice.

dougdirt
10-05-2012, 10:01 PM
He is being compensated, however.

But my other point is, the kid knew he was going to have to deal with academics when he signed his LOI. That was his choice.

He is being compensated with something that he doesn't want. Would you be ok if you were forced to do something for your future that you didn't want and were compensated with mandatory classes for something you had no interest in rather than being given money?

As for your other point, sure, it is valid. But the system is broken. Big time. These big colleges run a billion dollar a year industry for a pennies on the dollar in scholarships as "payment" to the athletes. These athletes, some of whom, literally have no interest in those scholarships, but just want to play football and move to the NFL. But they can't just go to the NFL. They must go to college, where they are forced to do things that have nothing at all to do with what they plan to do with their future.

dabvu2498
10-05-2012, 10:05 PM
Would you be ok if you were forced to do something for your future that you didn't want and were compensated with mandatory classes for something you had no interest in rather than being given money?



You just described college. For virtually everyone. And most people pay for the privilege. He doesn't.

dougdirt
10-05-2012, 10:08 PM
You just described college. For virtually everyone. And most people pay for the privilege. He doesn't.

And those people are required to go to college in order to learn their craft. Football isn't like becoming a teacher or a doctor or a lawyer and you know it.

dabvu2498
10-05-2012, 10:17 PM
And those people are required to go to college in order to learn their craft. Football isn't like becoming a teacher or a doctor or a lawyer and you know it.

But going to college IS a requirement for becoming a pro football player. And that includes going to classes and doing stuff you don't like and that has no direct relevance to your future career... Just like nearly everyone else in college. And hey, unlike the professions you named above, becoming a pro football player doesn't even require to to obtain a degree.

dougdirt
10-05-2012, 10:28 PM
But going to college IS a requirement for becoming a pro football player. And that includes going to classes and doing stuff you don't like and that has no direct relevance to your future career... Just like nearly everyone else in college. And hey, unlike the professions you named above, becoming a pro football player doesn't even require to to obtain a degree.

Unlike other professions though, you actually can leave college after 3 years, without graduating and go play in the NFL. Heck, you only have to go to college for a semester to go play in the NBA and in both cases, not a single class that you are required to take has anything at all to do with the next step in your career other than they are mandatory so other people can make money off of you. It is a joke. The athletes are getting royally screwed.

cincrazy
10-06-2012, 01:19 AM
Cardale Jones said something that 95% of college athletes think. Pretty much a nonstory. If he's not a Buckeye, I hardly think a thread gets started on this.

sonny
10-06-2012, 02:13 PM
So about those Buckeyes...

After watching the local Urban Meyer show here in Columbus, I think he has his players focused. He said something tithe effect of "The guys are chomping at the bit to make a statement."

We shall see.

improbus
10-06-2012, 11:38 PM
This certainly isn't Tressel ball.

Hillsdale87
10-07-2012, 12:46 AM
So about those Buckeyes...

After watching the local Urban Meyer show here in Columbus, I think he has his players focused. He said something tithe effect of "The guys are chomping at the bit to make a statement."

We shall see.

The offense has certainly made a statement. The defense on the other hand... I've got a feeling Fickell might be looking for a new job in the offseason. The defense returned 10 starters and have struggled in every game except against MSU. Frustrating because there are a lot of good individual players, but they're not putting it all together

nmculbreth
10-07-2012, 01:28 AM
Unlike other professions though, you actually can leave college after 3 years, without graduating and go play in the NFL. Heck, you only have to go to college for a semester to go play in the NBA and in both cases, not a single class that you are required to take has anything at all to do with the next step in your career other than they are mandatory so other people can make money off of you. It is a joke. The athletes are getting royally screwed.

No, they're really not. The athletes in question receive first class training for their chosen profession at no cost to themselves and those who aren't quite good enough to make it to the NFL end up with a college degree and no student loan debt.

Nobody is forcing these kids to go to college. If they want to try to find an alternate way to hone their skills and make it to the NFL, they're certainly free to do so.

dougdirt
10-07-2012, 02:30 AM
No, they're really not. The athletes in question receive first class training for their chosen profession at no cost to themselves and those who aren't quite good enough to make it to the NFL end up with a college degree and no student loan debt.

Nobody is forcing these kids to go to college. If they want to try to find an alternate way to hone their skills and make it to the NFL, they're certainly free to do so.

Come on.... they absolutely are forced to go to college to try and hone their skills to make the NFL.

And I would suggest you go out and look at the studies that show just how valuable these football and basketball players are worth on average to their college. It is generally 4-5 times what they have "spent" on them (at big schools) per year.

dougdirt
10-07-2012, 02:33 AM
Nice win tonight for the Buckeyes btw. Not how I expected the game today go. I didn't watch the entire game, but this team just doesn't seem like your usual Ohio State defense when it comes to tackling. That is one thing I always had confidence in, that the Buckeyes could tackle. But it just seems like they can't really get it done this year.

WMR
10-07-2012, 02:59 AM
Come on.... they absolutely are forced to go to college to try and hone their skills to make the NFL.

And I would suggest you go out and look at the studies that show just how valuable these football and basketball players are worth on average to their college. It is generally 4-5 times what they have "spent" on them (at big schools) per year.

Go to the CFL. Problem solved.

traderumor
10-07-2012, 03:08 AM
Jim Tressel is writing an email to Urban as we speak:

Dear Urban,

Congratulations on a big win. I sure did leave you a mess to clean up, but so far so good. However, I am so upset that I can't sleep. I cannot support scoring that many points in a Big 10 game. In fact, I am calling Gordon Gee tomorrow and telling him that he needs to fire you for scoring that last TD. Covering up a scandal is one thing, but running up the score is poor sportsmanship, and against a former Buckeye no less. The QB takes a knee, we pray, then sing the alma mater with the students. That is how they do it in Buckeye Nation. We never, ever tried to embarrass the other team's defense by scoring that many points.

Sincerely,

Tress

improbus
10-07-2012, 11:16 AM
He is being compensated with something that he doesn't want. Would you be ok if you were forced to do something for your future that you didn't want and were compensated with mandatory classes for something you had no interest in rather than being given money?

As for your other point, sure, it is valid. But the system is broken. Big time. These big colleges run a billion dollar a year industry for a pennies on the dollar in scholarships as "payment" to the athletes. These athletes, some of whom, literally have no interest in those scholarships, but just want to play football and move to the NFL. But they can't just go to the NFL. They must go to college, where they are forced to do things that have nothing at all to do with what they plan to do with their future.
Also, if you watched Broke, you might have wondered the same thing I did. Why aren't big time college athletics programs who produce a number of professional athletes teaching these kids financial literacy? For example, I'm a big UK fan. I understand what my basketball program is, and I would hope that the university is doing everything is can to repay these kids. If they won't do it with money (which college sports don't seem willing to do), then they need to give training for the transition from poverty to making a lot of money. Anthony Davis did not need UK to show his basketball skills, but he could have used their preparation for his life after his one year of college. The knowledge of how to deal with money and the shackles that can come with it would be just as valuable as anything he learns on the court.

dougdirt
10-07-2012, 01:24 PM
Also, if you watched Broke, you might have wondered the same thing I did. Why aren't big time college athletics programs who produce a number of professional athletes teaching these kids financial literacy? For example, I'm a big UK fan. I understand what my basketball program is, and I would hope that the university is doing everything is can to repay these kids. If they won't do it with money (which college sports don't seem willing to do), then they need to give training for the transition from poverty to making a lot of money. Anthony Davis did not need UK to show his basketball skills, but he could have used their preparation for his life after his one year of college. The knowledge of how to deal with money and the shackles that can come with it would be just as valuable as anything he learns on the court.

I found it interesting that there weren't as many baseball players talked about and I think I know why. They have to go to the minor leagues, where most of them have to actually learn to budget their money because they aren't making $1000 a month. Some guys can live off of signing bonuses, but by and large, most of them can't. They have to move through the minor leagues with roommates, living on the cheap. So by the time they are actually making money in the Majors, they have already learned how to budget their money. You don't get that in the NBA or NFL. If you make the NBA or NFL, you immediately start making the minimum, which is about $20,000 a week.

I do think that college should have classes, not just for athletes, but for everyone, on financial responsibility. Heck, I think those classes should start in middle school and you should have them through high school as well.

dougdirt
10-07-2012, 01:26 PM
Up to 8th in the AP.

bucksfan2
10-08-2012, 09:44 AM
If I were Urban Meyer I would call Jones into my office tell him if he doesn't want to go to school then get the hell out. You don't say something that stupid, your the 3rd string QB at OSU, you are going to play ahead of Braxton or Guiton. You aren't going to play ahead of the guy he brings in the next season. Your best avenue in life is to take advantage of the free education you are getting and use your OSU jersey as a tool to make contacts for the rest of your life.

As for the game I didn't expect that at all. OSU hit another gear and Nebraska didn't have a chance. If they weren't on probation Braxton may be the odds on favorite to win the Heisman right now.

sonny
10-08-2012, 06:08 PM
Etienne Sabino out for a month with a fractured leg. Being already thin at LB, it will be interesting to see how some kids mature.

Sea Ray
10-08-2012, 06:59 PM
Up to 8th in the AP.

There's not a single Big Ten team in the Coaches or Harris Poll. Pathetic

BuckeyeRed27
10-08-2012, 07:38 PM
There's not a single Big Ten team in the Coaches or Harris Poll. Pathetic

It is indeed. It was pretty likely that this was going to be a down year for the conference based on graduation and general turmoil, but still much worse than I think anyone anticipated.

BuckeyeRed27
10-08-2012, 07:40 PM
Etienne Sabino out for a month with a fractured leg. Being already thin at LB, it will be interesting to see how some kids mature.

That really sucks, both for him and the team. I'm not sure you can play Shazier, Grant and Klein, but if you don't do that you have a true frosh.

Sea Ray
10-09-2012, 09:18 AM
It is indeed. It was pretty likely that this was going to be a down year for the conference based on graduation and general turmoil, but still much worse than I think anyone anticipated.

I understand but there's no way a conference as big and powerful as this one should ever be this far down. This isn't the Big East or the ACC we're talking about here

BuckeyeRed27
10-09-2012, 12:11 PM
I understand but there's no way a conference as big and powerful as this one should ever be this far down. This isn't the Big East or the ACC we're talking about here

And luckily I'd say the BIG is still better than those two. I think this will continue to more of the norm with more and more parity and not just in the Big 10.

Sea Ray
10-09-2012, 01:00 PM
And luckily I'd say the BIG is still better than those two. I think this will continue to more of the norm with more and more parity and not just in the Big 10.

I think you're right but why is it even a question? I suppose you may be right if your point is that all conferences except for the SEC will have football yrs like this but I don't know.

This is an Ohio State thread so I think it's important to note that OSU is fine and will continue to do their part in holding up the Big Ten but as a fan I feel cheated. Is there one compelling game this week in the BIG? I don't see one and that's a problem

bucksfan2
10-09-2012, 01:31 PM
I think you're right but why is it even a question? I suppose you may be right if your point is that all conferences except for the SEC will have football yrs like this but I don't know.

This is an Ohio State thread so I think it's important to note that OSU is fine and will continue to do their part in holding up the Big Ten but as a fan I feel cheated. Is there one compelling game this week in the BIG? I don't see one and that's a problem

You have been railing on the B1G for a couple of years now. They shouldn't be as bad as they are this season but a down year was to be expected. Had OSU not been given a bowl ban they would be in the hunt for a BCS Championship game right now.

I do agree with you that the B1G has some issues. I think MSU is a good program but they lost their starting QB to graduation last season and are experiencing a rebuilding year. Same can be said about Wisconsin, who had some promise but Russell Wilson is staring in Seattle this season.

When I look at the issues that the B1G has I can point directly to Michigan as well as maybe Nebraska and PSU. Michigan has not done a good job in replacing Carr. They didn't deserve to go the a BCS bowl game last year and Hoke is having trouble developing star players. PSU hadn't been the same since the late 90's and early 2000's but the spanking they received from the NCAA set the program back 4+ years. And Nebraska hasn't found consistency under Pelini. It would be similar to the SEC having Alabama under a bowl ban, LSU trying to find an identity under several head coaches, Florida falling under tough times, and South Carolina graduating a starting NFL QB. The B1G teams aren't as good as their SEC counterparts, but lets not assume that they aren't better than the Big East or ACC.

Sea Ray
10-09-2012, 03:46 PM
You have been railing on the B1G for a couple of years now. They shouldn't be as bad as they are this season but a down year was to be expected. Had OSU not been given a bowl ban they would be in the hunt for a BCS Championship game right now.

I do agree with you that the B1G has some issues. I think MSU is a good program but they lost their starting QB to graduation last season and are experiencing a rebuilding year. Same can be said about Wisconsin, who had some promise but Russell Wilson is staring in Seattle this season.

When I look at the issues that the B1G has I can point directly to Michigan as well as maybe Nebraska and PSU. Michigan has not done a good job in replacing Carr. They didn't deserve to go the a BCS bowl game last year and Hoke is having trouble developing star players. PSU hadn't been the same since the late 90's and early 2000's but the spanking they received from the NCAA set the program back 4+ years. And Nebraska hasn't found consistency under Pelini. It would be similar to the SEC having Alabama under a bowl ban, LSU trying to find an identity under several head coaches, Florida falling under tough times, and South Carolina graduating a starting NFL QB. The B1G teams aren't as good as their SEC counterparts, but lets not assume that they aren't better than the Big East or ACC.

I don't really disagree with much of what you've written including your first line. I've actually been railing on the Big Ten for a decade. I think you've identified some very real problems. I'd add recruiting. They're not getting the top recruits (with the exception of Ohio State). And you are correct that OSU would be in the BCS mix this year but that'd be due to their weak schedule and the weakness of the conference in general. Again OSU is not the problem. They need some competition

bucksfan2
10-10-2012, 10:41 AM
I don't really disagree with much of what you've written including your first line. I've actually been railing on the Big Ten for a decade. I think you've identified some very real problems. I'd add recruiting. They're not getting the top recruits (with the exception of Ohio State). And you are correct that OSU would be in the BCS mix this year but that'd be due to their weak schedule and the weakness of the conference in general. Again OSU is not the problem. They need some competition

There are issues with the Big 10. I will leave OSU out of the discussion because for the most part they have been a top 5 program in the country since Cooper left. It helps that that Ohio has been a decent bed for college recruits.

Now to the main issues. If I were to rank programs I would say that Michigan, PSU, and Nebraska are all big time programs. The Rich Rod hire set Michigan back 5+ years. Guy was over his head, pissed too many UM people off, and recruited the type of player that made WVU successful in the Big East. PSU's issue was Paterno holding on for too long. Prior to the scandal they were a marquis destination but no one knew how long Paterno was going to stay and coaches used that against him. Paterno also wasn't on the front edge of innovation. He was Woody Hayes coaching in the 21st century.

Nebraska is struggling for an identity. I don't quite understand what direction they are going.

I think you can consider MSU and Wisconsin success stories over the past 5+ years. They don't have the big names like OSU or UM but have been rather successful in the B1G. For the most part other than OSU and Oregon (which I have a feeling the hammer will come down shortly) no team outside of the south or USC has been able to build a sustainable program.

Sea Ray
10-10-2012, 11:10 AM
There are issues with the Big 10. I will leave OSU out of the discussion because for the most part they have been a top 5 program in the country since Cooper left. It helps that that Ohio has been a decent bed for college recruits.

Now to the main issues. If I were to rank programs I would say that Michigan, PSU, and Nebraska are all big time programs. The Rich Rod hire set Michigan back 5+ years. Guy was over his head, pissed too many UM people off, and recruited the type of player that made WVU successful in the Big East. PSU's issue was Paterno holding on for too long. Prior to the scandal they were a marquis destination but no one knew how long Paterno was going to stay and coaches used that against him. Paterno also wasn't on the front edge of innovation. He was Woody Hayes coaching in the 21st century.

Nebraska is struggling for an identity. I don't quite understand what direction they are going.

I think you can consider MSU and Wisconsin success stories over the past 5+ years. They don't have the big names like OSU or UM but have been rather successful in the B1G. For the most part other than OSU and Oregon (which I have a feeling the hammer will come down shortly) no team outside of the south or USC has been able to build a sustainable program.

I'd say it'd be a rare event where a major conference goes through a period where it has no teams in the Coach's Top 25 but that's where the B1G is today

Revering4Blue
10-10-2012, 09:46 PM
There are issues with the Big 10. I will leave OSU out of the discussion because for the most part they have been a top 5 program in the country since Cooper left. It helps that that Ohio has been a decent bed for college recruits.

Now to the main issues. If I were to rank programs I would say that Michigan, PSU, and Nebraska are all big time programs. The Rich Rod hire set Michigan back 5+ years. Guy was over his head, pissed too many UM people off, and recruited the type of player that made WVU successful in the Big East. PSU's issue was Paterno holding on for too long. Prior to the scandal they were a marquis destination but no one knew how long Paterno was going to stay and coaches used that against him. Paterno also wasn't on the front edge of innovation. He was Woody Hayes coaching in the 21st century.

Nebraska is struggling for an identity. I don't quite understand what direction they are going.

I think you can consider MSU and Wisconsin success stories over the past 5+ years. They don't have the big names like OSU or UM but have been rather successful in the B1G. For the most part other than OSU and Oregon (which I have a feeling the hammer will come down shortly) no team outside of the south or USC has been able to build a sustainable program.

I agree with your general assessment of Big Ten Football for the most part. That stated, I'd like to address a few points.

Michigan/RichRod-The commonly accepted story line regarding RichRod's tenure at Michigan is that RichRod was a horrible hire from the start because his offensive scheme was a disaster and never had a chance of succeeding in the Big Ten. Therefore, Hoke is a better coach because he'll run a Pro-Style offense.

Bottom line: Frankly, I believe that ponying up 750,000 to pry DC Greg Mattison away from the NFL--RichRod was only alloted 250,000 for a DC-- is a much bigger factor in the Wolverines' resurgence, if you wan't to call it that, than Hoke as a head coach.

Heck, Alabama wanted RichRod in '06, and I guarantee that the Tide certainly would have ponied up enough to hire a quality DC, knowing full well, that with the right personnel, RichRod's offense, much like Urban Meyer's, is much tougher to stop than most, if not all, cookie-cutter NCAA Pro-Style Offenses out there. The man didn't become an idiot overnight.

Nebraska-How ironic it was that the former doofus Nebraska AD Steve Pederson fired Frank Solich and hired Bill Callahan as HC in '04 because he felt that Nebraska needed to run a Pro-Style offense to "keep up" with Texas. Well, we all know how it played out... Callahan's tenure was an unmitigated disaster and Texas merely won a National Championship running virtually the same offensive system that Nebraska currently utilizes--a multi-faceted smash-mouth approach.

That is Nebraska's identity, and that shouldn't change. Whether or not Pellini is the long-term answer is a fair question.


As far as Big Ten Conference Recruiting as a whole is concerned, I do not believe that there is a discernible difference, compared with the SEC, in speed at the skill positions, but rather a speed difference between the opposing OLs and DLs, where most games are won and lost.

*BaseClogger*
10-11-2012, 06:28 PM
I agree with your general assessment of Big Ten Football for the most part. That stated, I'd like to address a few points.

Michigan/RichRod-The commonly accepted story line regarding RichRod's tenure at Michigan is that RichRod was a horrible hire from the start because his offensive scheme was a disaster and never had a chance of succeeding in the Big Ten. Therefore, Hoke is a better coach because he'll run a Pro-Style offense.

Bottom line: Frankly, I believe that ponying up 750,000 to pry DC Greg Mattison away from the NFL--RichRod was only alloted 250,000 for a DC-- is a much bigger factor in the Wolverines' resurgence, if you wan't to call it that, than Hoke as a head coach.

Heck, Alabama wanted RichRod in '06, and I guarantee that the Tide certainly would have ponied up enough to hire a quality DC, knowing full well, that with the right personnel, RichRod's offense, much like Urban Meyer's, is much tougher to stop than most, if not all, cookie-cutter NCAA Pro-Style Offenses out there. The man didn't become an idiot overnight.

Nebraska-How ironic it was that the former doofus Nebraska AD Steve Pederson fired Frank Solich and hired Bill Callahan as HC in '04 because he felt that Nebraska needed to run a Pro-Style offense to "keep up" with Texas. Well, we all know how it played out... Callahan's tenure was an unmitigated disaster and Texas merely won a National Championship running virtually the same offensive system that Nebraska currently utilizes--a multi-faceted smash-mouth approach.

That is Nebraska's identity, and that shouldn't change. Whether or not Pellini is the long-term answer is a fair question.


As far as Big Ten Conference Recruiting as a whole is concerned, I do not believe that there is a discernible difference, compared with the SEC, in speed at the skill positions, but rather a speed difference between the opposing OLs and DLs, where most games are won and lost.

This is a really good post... :thumbup:

Hoosier Red
10-15-2012, 12:42 PM
Turning it back to tOSU, interested to hear Buckeye fans thoughts on the 3 point victory over Indiana?

I realized that's about as close as Indiana will likely come to beating OSU, but I'm trying to sort out whether I feel good about IU's direction or if tOSU played poorly.

I'm sure it's a bit of both.

bucksfan2
10-15-2012, 01:36 PM
Turning it back to tOSU, interested to hear Buckeye fans thoughts on the 3 point victory over Indiana?

I realized that's about as close as Indiana will likely come to beating OSU, but I'm trying to sort out whether I feel good about IU's direction or if tOSU played poorly.

I'm sure it's a bit of both.

A little bit of everything. I fell asleep on the couch to wake up to see Philly Brown recover the second onside kick.

OSU's offense is clicking right now. Its fun to watch.

OSU's defense is the worst I have ever seen it. I think quick strike offenses are hard on a defense. I also think injuries are devastating the LB corps and the secondary isn't up to snuff. When Boren is playing LB you have issues.

I am disappointed that the DL isn't dominating. I thought they would be beasts this year but not so much.

Redsfaithful
10-15-2012, 01:45 PM
It's really weird to watch an Ohio State team score so much and defend so little. I don't really know what I'm watching.

BuckeyeRed27
10-15-2012, 01:59 PM
I wasn't able to watch Saturday's game, so I can't give any educated opinion. It is surprising though to both score 52 points and give up 49 points. It seems as if they may have eased up a bit late in the game after they took a bigger lead and let IU back in it, but like I said I wasn't watching.

Hoosier Red
10-15-2012, 02:23 PM
I wasn't able to watch Saturday's game, so I can't give any educated opinion. It is surprising though to both score 52 points and give up 49 points. It seems as if they may have eased up a bit late in the game after they took a bigger lead and let IU back in it, but like I said I wasn't watching.

That could be. Although they scored to go up 52-34 with about 6:26 left. Perhaps a bit of prevent to keep IU from scoring quickly, which did work as it took 10 plays and just about 5 minutes to score the first touchdown. But after the first onside kick, IU went 48 yards in 5 plays.

The last two scores were really just icing on the cake as I was pretty proud of the effort when it was 52-34. I don't think I'd ever seen IU score that many even against Ohio State.

LoganBuck
10-15-2012, 04:46 PM
Indiana was abusing the injury depleted linebacking corp. They went toward Boren late. Indiana has a good base to build, I think this game comes down just how shoddy Ohio State's lb play is. Boren was undressed in the last five minutes. Some people will point to his tackles, they were mostly pile jumps.

Revering4Blue
10-15-2012, 05:21 PM
Despite giving up a ton of yards/points, both defenses actually made some big plays, preventing a Baylor/WV type of outcome.

Nevertheless, IMHO, the Buckeyes are still head-and-shoulders above the rest of the conference. Unless the Buckeye offense becomes a turnover machine on the road against Penn State and Wisconsin--the latter, I'm still not sold on--the Buckeyes will go undefeated.

As for I.U, , as they say, this isn't your Father's I.U football program. They've actually ponied up enough to lure an actual Coaching Staff comprised of Coaches/Coordinators from National Championship caliber programs. The Air-Raid offense that I.U employs will be even more dangerous next year when QB Tre Roberson returns from injury. IMHO, Roberson is as good of an athlete as Miller or D.Robinson, and has also shown that he can complete the type of mid-range passes that this offense requires.

Revering4Blue
10-15-2012, 05:45 PM
Turning it back to tOSU, interested to hear Buckeye fans thoughts on the 3 point victory over Indiana?

I realized that's about as close as Indiana will likely come to beating OSU, but I'm trying to sort out whether I feel good about IU's direction or if tOSU played poorly.

I'm sure it's a bit of both.

I'm not going that far.

Even though it sometimes seems like a lifetime ago, I remember full well I.U defeating OSU twice ('87 and '88) in a row. Granted, OSU was transitioning from Bruce to Cooper--Sorry, I mentioned his name, Buckeye fans--and I.U was actually a respected program under Bill Mallory at the time.

Hoosier Red
10-15-2012, 06:19 PM
I'm not going that far.

Even though it sometimes seems like a lifetime ago, I remember full well I.U defeating OSU twice ('87 and '88) in a row. Granted, OSU was transitioning from Bruce to Cooper--Sorry, I mentioned his name, Buckeye fans--and I.U was actually a respected program under Bill Mallory at the time.

And Earl Bruce referred to it as the "darkest day in school history" as I recall.

I really like what Wilson's done, but quite honestly IU's best hope to being a consistently decent program is for a Big 2/Little 10 dichotomy in the conference.
IU basketball went through this about 2 years ago when the B1G Ten had no great teams but 9 teams that were about a step and a half ahead of Indiana.

IU basketball recovered of course, but there are a lot more structural issues that make it hard for IU football to take a similar trajectory.

So I'll settle for never coming within a touchdown of THE Ohio State University if it also means that IU is between 6-6 and 8-4 every year.

Enough IU talk.

BuckeyeRed27
10-18-2012, 04:29 PM
Ohio State was supposed to open next year with Vanderbilt. However Vandy has just backed out of the game and apparently didn't even make a call, rather just sent a letter to OSU telling them they weren't coming. Classy.

dabvu2498
10-18-2012, 07:40 PM
Ohio State was supposed to open next year with Vanderbilt. However Vandy has just backed out of the game and apparently didn't even make a call, rather just sent a letter to OSU telling them they weren't coming. Classy.

Don't feel bad. We did it to Northwestern too.

Vandy's AD way over scheduled for next year. If it had gone as planned, they'd have played @OSU, @UMass (in Gillette Stadium), Northwestern at home and Wake Forest at home plus the SEC schedule. That wasn't happening.

As to how it was done... Who cares?

sonny
10-19-2012, 10:31 AM
Zach Boren is now my favorite Buckeye. To play 3 years as a starting fullback to switch to linebacker to fill a need. Total unselfish move.

BuckeyeRed27
10-20-2012, 04:09 PM
Hope Braxton is ok. Going to the hospital and it doesn't look good at all.

LoganBuck
10-20-2012, 04:49 PM
Kenny Guiton drinks coffee. Buckeyes win!

Sea Ray
10-20-2012, 05:35 PM
Hope Braxton is ok. Going to the hospital and it doesn't look good at all.

I'm guessing a neck (spinal cord) injury. Obviously a serious injury. Teams like OSU and Mich are really taking a chance by having their QBs provide so much of the offense. If you're not huge like Cam Newton, your QB running for 100 yards a game will tend to get banged up in some fashion

Boston Red
10-20-2012, 06:06 PM
I'm guessing a neck (spinal cord) injury.

Not a chance. They wouldn't have carried him off the way he did if that was the case.

traderumor
10-20-2012, 07:25 PM
Don't feel bad. We did it to Northwestern too.

Vandy's AD way over scheduled for next year. If it had gone as planned, they'd have played @OSU, @UMass (in Gillette Stadium), Northwestern at home and Wake Forest at home plus the SEC schedule. That wasn't happening.

As to how it was done... Who cares?Ever heard of something called professionalism, tact, honor, common decency, treating others the way you want to be treated, etc.?

Brutus
10-20-2012, 07:59 PM
Miller was released from the hospital with a statement from Ohio State saying he was cleared of all ailments after undergoing a CAT scan and MRI. Good news, provided Ohio State is being upfront.

*BaseClogger*
10-22-2012, 12:06 AM
Don't feel bad. We did it to Northwestern too.

Vandy's AD way over scheduled for next year. If it had gone as planned, they'd have played @OSU, @UMass (in Gillette Stadium), Northwestern at home and Wake Forest at home plus the SEC schedule. That wasn't happening.

As to how it was done... Who cares?

Oh boy, that schedule sure is scary!!

GAC
10-22-2012, 04:27 AM
Turning it back to tOSU, interested to hear Buckeye fans thoughts on the 3 point victory over Indiana?

I realized that's about as close as Indiana will likely come to beating OSU, but I'm trying to sort out whether I feel good about IU's direction or if tOSU played poorly.

I'm sure it's a bit of both.

Our defensive coordinator is still trying to hone the rough edges of that new spread defense. :p

What's killing us is the LB'ing corp. It's young and inexperienced, and just ain't working out for us right now.

Most Buckeye fans realize this year is a wash simply because we are banned from the conference championship game, as well as a bowl game. So I view this season pretty much as an opportunity for Meyer to get comfortable with the program, assess what he's got as far as plus/minuses, and go from there to move it forward.

I understand they are undefeated, and as a fan I'll certainly take that; but besides the B10 being down this year (IMO), their schedule isn't exactly a strong point.

Besides the Purdue and Indiana games, they could have very easily had a loss vs California, and UAB gave us a hard time. And we could very easily get our first loss next week in Happy Valley.

I sometimes think not being able to go to a bowl game this year only saves me from disappointment. ;)

Todd Gack
10-22-2012, 08:35 AM
Oh boy, that schedule sure is scary!!

I sense a bit of sarcasm in that voice. But everyone essentially needs a 'bye' week in there. While you may consider UMass a 'bye' you have to realize that game is on the road and UMass is just in the beginning of DI level so they're likely to improve. Vandy should've rid itself of that game.

dabvu2498
10-22-2012, 03:38 PM
Oh boy, that schedule sure is scary!!

Ole Miss
Austin Peay
@ South Carolina
@ UMass (in Gillette Stadium)
UAB
Missouri
Georgia
@ TAMU
@ Florida
Kentucky
@ Tennessee
Wake Forest

Now replace AP with @ Ohio State and UAB with Northwestern. Darn right that's scary. And more importantly, not the way to build a program.

Boston Red
10-22-2012, 03:45 PM
I sense a bit of sarcasm in that voice. But everyone essentially needs a 'bye' week in there. While you may consider UMass a 'bye' you have to realize that game is on the road and UMass is just in the beginning of DI level so they're likely to improve. Vandy should've rid itself of that game.

It's in Boston, about 100 miles from the UMass campus and likely to be played in front of about 50,000 empty seats. I assume Vandy sees it as an opportunity to give the university a little bit of a showcase in New England and try to bring a few high school students back south with them. I doubt this is a game Vandy considers dropping (particularly when UMass is abysmally awful and should be an easy win).

sonny
10-29-2012, 08:09 PM
Just wanted to chime in and say that touchdown by Braxton where he stutter stepped and reversed then blasted through was the best one yard run I've ever seen.

BuckeyeRed27
10-30-2012, 01:18 PM
Just wanted to chime in and say that touchdown by Braxton where he stutter stepped and reversed then blasted through was the best one yard run I've ever seen.

Yeah that was some video game stuff. I think there was a massive hold on that play, but either way it was an awesome display of his talent.

*BaseClogger*
10-31-2012, 10:11 AM
Ole Miss
Austin Peay
@ South Carolina
@ UMass (in Gillette Stadium)
UAB
Missouri
Georgia
@ TAMU
@ Florida
Kentucky
@ Tennessee
Wake Forest

Now replace AP with @ Ohio State and UAB with Northwestern. Darn right that's scary. And more importantly, not the way to build a program.

Meh, I was commenting on an out-of-conference schedule that included one marquee program, two doormats of BCS conferences, and a cupcake. Seemed like a perfectly reasonable schedule to me. I don't care to comment on the conference schedule...

dabvu2498
10-31-2012, 04:08 PM
Meh, I was commenting on an out-of-conference schedule that included one marquee program, two doormats of BCS conferences, and a cupcake. Seemed like a perfectly reasonable schedule to me. I don't care to comment on the conference schedule...

Your problem is in thinking of WFU and NU as doormats. Neither is.

We can't all be Ohio State...

But if you think so little of what could have been Vanderbilt's nonconference schedule, I'd be open to hearing a program or two that has a more difficult out of conference schedule.

*BaseClogger*
10-31-2012, 05:11 PM
Your problem is in thinking of WFU and NU as doormats. Neither is.

We can't all be Ohio State...

But if you think so little of what could have been Vanderbilt's nonconference schedule, I'd be open to hearing a program or two that has a more difficult out of conference schedule.

Sure. Not all Ohio State. Check out the schedule for my alma-matter, Miami University, over the past three seasons:

http://www.muredhawks.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPSID=617664&SPID=87601&DB_OEM_ID=26100&Q_SEASON=2012

Also, those schedules are made years in advance. A majority of the time, Wake and Northwestern are doormat programs. They're both academic bastions for their conferences that struggle to compete athletically. Whether or not they have one good year doesn't really influence my opinion of the schedule...

dabvu2498
10-31-2012, 06:05 PM
Sure. Not all Ohio State. Check out the schedule for my alma-matter, Miami University, over the past three seasons:

http://www.muredhawks.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPSID=617664&SPID=87601&DB_OEM_ID=26100&Q_SEASON=2012

Also, those schedules are made years in advance. A majority of the time, Wake and Northwestern are doormat programs. They're both academic bastions for their conferences that struggle to compete athletically. Whether or not they have one good year doesn't really influence my opinion of the schedule...

Miami, however, doesn't have to play an BCS conference schedule on top of their nonconference. Find me a program in a BCS conference who's playing 3 other schools from BCS conference in their nonleague schedule.

Also, Pat Fitzgerald's Big 10 record: 24-29. Struggle? Yes. Doormat? No. Wake has been to 4 bowl games in the last 6 years, including an Orange Bowl. Struggle? Yes. Doormat? No.

And you're right about the contracts, generally, being signed well in advance. Vanderbilt signed their contract with Wake in 2006, during Wake's Orange Bowl season.

VottoFan54
11-03-2012, 08:27 PM
Not OSU related, but, that was an awful PI call at the end of the Nebraska-MSU game. The refs gave Nebraska that game.

sonny
11-14-2012, 05:34 PM
OSU will wear new uniforms for the Mich game. It's kind of an homage to the 2002 team but with Nikefication.

bucksfan2
11-15-2012, 09:38 AM
OSU will wear new uniforms for the Mich game. It's kind of an homage to the 2002 team but with Nikefication.

The old uniforms with Scarlet and Grey? I knew there was some uproar about grey not being included on the newer uniforms and having black instead.

I always liked how OSU had a uniform and they didn't go to a new age uniform, a la Oregon, multiple times a year.

sonny
11-15-2012, 10:30 AM
The old uniforms with Scarlet and Grey? I knew there was some uproar about grey not being included on the newer uniforms and having black instead.

I always liked how OSU had a uniform and they didn't go to a new age uniform, a la Oregon, multiple times a year.

It's nothing crazy. It's all buy confirmed as this image was accidentally leaked on OSU official site.

http://www.nikeblog.com/2012/11/12/new-ohio-state-football-uniforms-for-michigan-game/

LoganBuck
11-15-2012, 02:45 PM
They have done a "retro/pro combat" uniform for at least the last 4 years. Remember the ones with the white helmet?

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/david_6942013/pryornewjersey.jpg
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/493028/throwback_uniforms_2010.jpg
http://isportsweb.com/wp-content/uploads//2011/10/OSU-Devin-Smith1.jpg

sonny
11-16-2012, 08:08 PM
The 1942 throwbacks were probably my favorite.

I must admit, I'm probably the biggest sports uniform geek you'll ever encounter.

Roy Tucker
11-18-2012, 01:31 PM
The Buckeyes sure did pick a lousy season to be bowl-ineligible.

With the KSU and Oregon losses last night, they'd be in the thick of it for a BCS national champ. Game berth.

BuckeyeRed27
11-18-2012, 01:44 PM
The Buckeyes sure did pick a lousy season to be bowl-ineligible.

With the KSU and Oregon losses last night, they'd be in the thick of it for a BCS national champ. Game berth.

To be honest I still don't think we are better than the top 4 or 5 teams despite some losses, however we would be ranked #2 right now for sure.

At least we all have those great Gator Bowl memories.

bucksfan2
11-18-2012, 08:34 PM
To be honest I still don't think we are better than the top 4 or 5 teams despite some losses, however we would be ranked #2 right now for sure.

At least we all have those great Gator Bowl memories.

I think OSU is every bit as good as ND is right now. Earlier in the season I would have said that OSU is where it is because of an awful Big 10 and a weak BCS opponent (Cal), but they hvae gotten better as the season has gone along.

I think Alabama and Oregon are better football teams than OSU, but I didn't think anyone could slow down Oregon either. I saw a mobile QB take down Alabama who looks awfully similar to that of Braxton Miller. They have thier holes but they have a dangerous QB and a RB who is looking more and more like the real deal each and every game he plays.

Chip R
11-19-2012, 11:30 AM
The Buckeyes sure did pick a lousy season to be bowl-ineligible.

With the KSU and Oregon losses last night, they'd be in the thick of it for a BCS national champ. Game berth.

Thanks to Saint Tressel. If he hadn't lied and covered up about all that stuff that was going on, they could have been bowl ineligible last year and eligible this year. Life is funny.

BuckeyeRed27
11-19-2012, 12:38 PM
I think OSU is every bit as good as ND is right now. Earlier in the season I would have said that OSU is where it is because of an awful Big 10 and a weak BCS opponent (Cal), but they hvae gotten better as the season has gone along.

I think Alabama and Oregon are better football teams than OSU, but I didn't think anyone could slow down Oregon either. I saw a mobile QB take down Alabama who looks awfully similar to that of Braxton Miller. They have thier holes but they have a dangerous QB and a RB who is looking more and more like the real deal each and every game he plays.

I think OSU could give Alabama and Oregon a good game, but would certainly need a few breaks to beat them. I actually would rather play Alabama than Oregon. I honestly haven't watched enough of Notre Dame to really know how that would look.

MWM
11-19-2012, 02:20 PM
Alabama is still the best team, but after watching them against LSU and Texas A&M, it's clear they were never as good as the hype machine surrounding them. They are very beatable, but it will take a really good game by whoever to do it.

Chip R
11-20-2012, 01:49 AM
I think OSU could give Alabama and Oregon a good game, but would certainly need a few breaks to beat them. I actually would rather play Alabama than Oregon. I honestly haven't watched enough of Notre Dame to really know how that would look.

I saw part of the 3rd quarter of Oregon's game against Cal and it was still a rather close game then and Cal was just running the ball through Oregon's defense without too much trouble. Then Cal would inevitably throw the ball and turned it over.

Roy Tucker
11-21-2012, 03:16 PM
To be honest I still don't think we are better than the top 4 or 5 teams despite some losses, however we would be ranked #2 right now for sure.

At least we all have those great Gator Bowl memories.

Yeah, I'd say a top 5 team, especially now. Early in the season, no way.

But yeah, a soft Big 10 and a soft OOC schedule and some skin of the teeth wins have pushed them down.

sonny
11-24-2012, 04:17 PM
Carlos Hyde needs a nickname.

traderumor
11-24-2012, 05:18 PM
This is a perfect season--win all your games, win the Conference Championship, and Beat the team up north. No anti-climatic bowl game win or loss to wait six weeks to play with a team that looks nothing like the one you saw play in the last game of the regular season.

I know the system tells us to be disappointed, think of "what might have been," but this is a perfect season, undefeated, won all the games they were allowed to play....and did I mention beating the team up north?

RiverRat13
11-24-2012, 05:20 PM
This is a perfect season--win all your games, win the Conference Championship game, and Beat the team up north. No anti-climatic bowl game win or loss to wait six weeks to play with a team that looks nothing like the one you saw play in the last game of the regular season.

I know the system tells us to be disappointed, think of "what might have been," but this is a perfect season, undefeated, won all the games they were allowed to play....and did I mention beating the team up north?

It was a very enjoyable year. No worrying about BCS ratings/computers, no politicking the pollsters, just go out there and try to win every game you play.

Roy Tucker
11-24-2012, 05:57 PM
Yep, I'll take it too. Kind of an ugly game, but I will never ever complain about a W over Michigan.

Why Brady Hoke went away from running Denard Robinson, I'll never know. But I'm sure glad he did.

Brutus
11-24-2012, 06:20 PM
Yep, I'll take it too. Kind of an ugly game, but I will never ever complain about a W over Michigan.

Why Brady Hoke went away from running Denard Robinson, I'll never know. But I'm sure glad he did.

He went away from it because Ohio State was stuffing it every time they tried it in the third quarter.

traderumor
11-24-2012, 06:26 PM
Yep, I'll take it too. Kind of an ugly game, but I will never ever complain about a W over Michigan.

Why Brady Hoke went away from running Denard Robinson, I'll never know. But I'm sure glad he did.


He went away from it because Ohio State was stuffing it every time they tried it in the third quarter.
Yes, cudos to Fickell and the D coaches for the adjustments at halftime. Both D's adjusted, but the Buckeyes caused turnovers, which turned out to be the difference. I'm most happy that Denard Robinson running through two dbacks wasn't the legacy of this game. That was one of the ugliest defensive plays of the season.

Mutaman
11-24-2012, 08:38 PM
Didn't see the game but reading reports that Tressel was saluted and received a "thunderous ovation". Is this true?

Not a smart move as far as the way the non-Buckeye world views this university. Guess I just wasn't made for these times.

BuckeyeRed27
11-24-2012, 08:44 PM
Didn't see the game but reading reports that Tressel was saluted and received a "thunderous ovation". Is this true?

Not a smart move as far as the way the non-Buckeye world views this university. Guess I just wasn't made for these times.

Jim Tressel has paid for his mistakes. We weren't able to say good bye and thank you to a coach that won a whole bunch of games, especially against today's opponent. He doesn't need to be judged forever for the one bad thing he did, while ignoring all the good. I'm happy the fans gave him that reception and happier the national media has their panties in a bunch about it.

Mutaman
11-24-2012, 08:54 PM
Jim Tressel has paid for his mistakes. We weren't able to say good bye and thank you to a coach that won a whole bunch of games, especially against today's opponent. He doesn't need to be judged forever for the one bad thing he did, while ignoring all the good. I'm happy the fans gave him that reception and happier the national media has their panties in a bunch about it.

Right. Sort of like the Yankees honoring the Rocket on National Television before the 7th game of the World Series. I mean he's "paid for his mistakes". In the Buckeye World- i'm glad you're happy. In the rest of the world (which is real people, not just the media) that I think is getting a little tired with "win at all costs" and "follow the money", not a smart move.

BuckeyeRed27
11-24-2012, 08:59 PM
Right. Sort of like the Yankees honoring the Rocket on National Television before the 7th game of the World Series. I mean he's "paid for his mistakes". In the Buckeye World- i'm glad you're happy. In the rest of the world (which is real people, not just the media) that I think is getting a little tired with "win at all costs" and "follow the money", not a smart move.

In the real world covering up that your best employee sold his employee of the month plaque isn't a big deal.

Redsfaithful
11-24-2012, 09:31 PM
Right. Sort of like the Yankees honoring the Rocket on National Television before the 7th game of the World Series. I mean he's "paid for his mistakes". In the Buckeye World- i'm glad you're happy. In the rest of the world (which is real people, not just the media) that I think is getting a little tired with "win at all costs" and "follow the money", not a smart move.

What he did wrong is laughable, and only NCAA apologists even think the Buckeyes did anything wrong. It's a completely warped system, and in a sane system none of it would have been news. So spare me.

College football has been win at all costs basically forever, anyway, looking at it otherwise is naive.

HeatherC1212
11-24-2012, 09:41 PM
Wasn't Tressel there as part of the ceremony they did prior to the game honoring the 2002 National Championship team? It makes perfect sense to me that the crowd would give him a huge ovation during that moment. That was a pretty special season! And count me as another fan who isn't going to punish the guy forever for his mistakes. We all make mistakes....we just get to make ours out of the spotlight of college football.

And I LOVE beating that team up north! My Twitter feed was full of obnoxious MI 'fans' tweeting way too much smack talk during the first half of the game but they were totally nonexistent during the second half, LOL :laugh:

Go Bucks!! :D

Mutaman
11-24-2012, 09:48 PM
My good friends who live in the bubble at Storrs think Jim Calhoun never did much wrong and I'm sure those in the Lexington bubble feel the same way about Calipari. Maybe they're right. But trust me, those who live outside the bubbles feel very differently. Its a question of perception.

Not a smart move.

BuckeyeRed27
11-24-2012, 09:52 PM
My good friends who live in the bubble at Storrs think Jim Calhoun never did much wrong and I'm sure those in the Lexington bubble feel the same way about Calipari. Maybe they're right. But trust me, those who live outside the bubbles feel very differently. Its a question of perception.

Not a smart move.

It must be hard to be friends with someone as perfect as you.

Mutaman
11-24-2012, 09:59 PM
It must be hard to be friends with someone as perfect as you.

Well i'm certainly not perfect, I predicted Romney would carry Florida and I predicted that the Reds would win game 3 against the Poseys.

But I don't cheat, and I don't lie (and trust me, that's the way the national John Q Public views Tressel, fairly or
not ) and while I might forgive those who do, I don't agree with treating them like a hero before a National TV audience. Hasn't been a day in the last 20 years I haven't been willing to forgive Pete, but would draw the line at carrying him around the field before the world series.

Not a smart move. Nuff said.

BuckeyeRed27
11-24-2012, 10:07 PM
Well i'm certainly not perfect, I predicted Romney would carry Florida and I predicted that the Reds would win game 3 against the Poseys.

But I don't cheat, and I don't lie (and trust me, that's the way the national John Q Public views Tressel, fairly or
not ) and while I might forgive those who do, I don't agree with treating them like a hero before a National TV audience. Hasn't been a day in the last 20 years I haven't been willing to forgive Pete, but would draw the line at carrying him around the field before the world series.

Not a smart move. Nuff said.

I guess you don't consider the degrees of what people did wrong. What JT did isn't in the same stratosphere as what Clemens or Pete did. That's fine. We will just disagree. I think people should be celebrated for their legitimate accomplishments and you don't. Nuff said.

Mutaman
11-24-2012, 10:35 PM
I guess you don't consider the degrees of what people did wrong. What JT did isn't in the same stratosphere as what Clemens or Pete did. That's fine. We will just disagree. I think people should be celebrated for their legitimate accomplishments and you don't. Nuff said.

I can't resist. Actually, unlike Tressel, its never been proven that Clemens did anything wrong. And unlike Tressel, Clemens has never admitted that he lied or did anything wrong, and has been found innocent after trial of lying under oath. Now correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Tressel admit that he lied?

*BaseClogger*
11-24-2012, 10:48 PM
I can't resist. Actually, unlike Tressel, its never been proven that Clemens did anything wrong. And unlike Tressel, Clemens has never admitted that he lied or did anything wrong, and has been found innocent after trial of lying under oath. Now correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Tressel admit that he lied?

Sure, but Clemens is also an arrogant SOB and Jim Tressel personified professionalism and class.

And honestly, I think 90% of Reds fans would go crazy cheering if Pete's BRM teammates carried him off the field at a World Series reunion...

Mutaman
11-24-2012, 11:00 PM
And honestly, I think 90% of Reds fans would go crazy cheering if Pete's BRM teammates carried him off the field at a World Series reunion...

Then they'd be hypocrites since, if Red Zone is any guide, the majority of Reds fans have condemned Pete and his action. Nor can i see JB and Morgan carrying Pete off the field.

"And I ask 'Do you have kids?' [If Rose is in] you can tell them that there are no more rules. We've all had to abide by rules."

Bench
11/21/12

In any event its a hypothetical we don't have to worry about. Since Castelli took over, the Reds have pretty much made all the right classy moves. I think if Bud Lite ever did the right thing and forgave Pete, the Reds would be smart enough to low key it.

Cedric
11-24-2012, 11:04 PM
Then they'd be hypocrites since, if Red Zone is any guide, the majority of Reds fans have condemned Pete and his action. Nor can i see JB and Morgan carrying Pete of the field.

"And I ask 'Do you have kids?' [If Rose is in] you can tell them that there are no more rules. We've all had to abide by rules."

Bench
11/21/12

In any event its a hypothetical we don't have to worry about. Since Castelli took over, the Reds have pretty much made all the right classy moves. I think if Bud Lite ever did the right thing and forgave Pete, the Reds would be smart enough to low key it.

I stood and cheered loudly for the whole 02 team and Coach Tressel today. It was an awesome experience.

Mutaman
11-24-2012, 11:06 PM
I stood and cheered loudly for the whole 02 team and Coach Tressel today. It was an awesome experience.

Your honor, I rest my case.

Redsfaithful
11-24-2012, 11:26 PM
My good friends who live in the bubble at Storrs think Jim Calhoun never did much wrong and I'm sure those in the Lexington bubble feel the same way about Calipari. Maybe they're right. But trust me, those who live outside the bubbles feel very differently. Its a question of perception.

Not a smart move.

I'm not a UK fan and I don't have any issues with their coach. He's brilliant.

Enjoy the B1G championship game and your team's 7-5 record.

I find it frustrating that people will get on a high horse about NCAA violations while the entire system is exploiting kids. If you're a college football fan at all you're complicit in a seriously screwed up thing, to draw the line at someone breaking their idiotic rules is hysterical.

Mutaman
11-25-2012, 12:15 AM
I'm not a UK fan and I don't have any issues with their coach. He's brilliant.

Enjoy the B1G championship game and your team's 7-5 record.

I find it frustrating that people will get on a high horse about NCAA violations while the entire system is exploiting kids. If you're a college football fan at all you're complicit in a seriously screwed up thing, to draw the line at someone breaking their idiotic rules is hysterical.

But he lied about it. How can you honor a man who lied about it? In prime time, on national television? Honor the team, but how can OSU be so foolish as to Invite Tressel and how can Tressel be so dopey as to accept? Not ready for prime time.

You and I agree 90 % of the time, and you're right, the whole system is rediculous (Rutgers?). And I guess winning is everything these days. But this was just a dumb classless move.

cincrazy
11-25-2012, 12:43 AM
But he lied about it. How can you honor a man who lied about it? In prime time, on national television? Honor the team, but how can OSU be so foolish as to Invite Tressel and how can Tressel be so dopey as to accept? Not ready for prime time.

You and I agree 90 % of the time, and you're right, the whole system is rediculous (Rutgers?). And I guess winning is everything these days. But this was just a dumb classless move.

He's OUR coach. And we'll do what we damn well please, and don't really care what anyone outside of the university thinks about it. That pretty much sums it up. You can get on your moral pedestal and act like Tressel is a horrible person. Or you can be reasonable about it, acknowledge his mistake, and also realize he did more for this university than anyone not named Woody Hayes.

Mutaman
11-25-2012, 12:54 AM
He's OUR coach. And we'll do what we damn well please, and don't really care what anyone outside of the university thinks about it.

Fair enough. Don't think that attitude will play too well in the real world but if that's way you honestly feel, I have nothing to complain about.

OUReds
11-25-2012, 01:01 AM
In 2000 the Reds did honor Pete during the BRM reunion, and the crowd went crazy when they showed Pete on the big board and when Larking placed a rose on third base. They did so because they understood that you can honor and appreciate a man's tremendous contributions to a team and community without sharing or condoning his flaws.

Much ado about nothing.

Redsfaithful
11-25-2012, 01:49 AM
But he lied about it. How can you honor a man who lied about it? In prime time, on national television? Honor the team, but how can OSU be so foolish as to Invite Tressel and how can Tressel be so dopey as to accept? Not ready for prime time.

You and I agree 90 % of the time, and you're right, the whole system is rediculous (Rutgers?). And I guess winning is everything these days. But this was just a dumb classless move.

The bottom line, for me, is that I don't think the rule he lied about makes any sense, thus I don't have a real problem with him lying.

Morality is a fuzzy thing. And Ohio State included him because it was his team, and the fans in Columbus I'm sure overwhelmingly view him fondly and would have wanted him there. The ceremony wasn't for you, and it wasn't for the national media, it was for Ohio State and the fans here.

WVRed
11-25-2012, 02:08 AM
I'm not a UK fan and I don't have any issues with their coach. He's brilliant.

Enjoy the B1G championship game and your team's 7-5 record.

I find it frustrating that people will get on a high horse about NCAA violations while the entire system is exploiting kids. If you're a college football fan at all you're complicit in a seriously screwed up thing, to draw the line at someone breaking their idiotic rules is hysterical.

I'm a UK fan and I agree completely with everything that is bolded. Ask any UK fan about Enes Kanter and they will agree with you 100%. The other problem is obvious favoritism as well, especially in the case of Lance Thomas at Duke, similar situation to Ohio State, except Coach K was not forced to resign and Duke didn't miss the NCAA tournament.

I've always thought some Ohio State fans were hypocritical when they were calling Calipari a cheater yet Jim Tressel was the second coming of Pete Rose. Cal has never been implicated of any wrongdoing, and while Tressel has, it's more a victim of the NCAA's house of nonsense.

Cedric
11-25-2012, 11:21 AM
Your honor, I rest my case.

Luckily I couldn't care less what you or anyone else thinks. Most people buy into media hype and believe whatever they are being force fed.

Ohio State fans quit worrying a LONG time ago what other people thought about their program. Most are jealous and/or irrational haters.

Yesterday was incredibly fun and I enjoyed every second of it. I bet that makes you mad.

Brutus
11-25-2012, 01:27 PM
Funny thing is, people are on the high horse about honoring and applauding Tressel, yet Tressel isn't the one that lied about anything.

I've said this before on here... he fell on a sword. Ohio State did 'break the rules' by 'failing to report', but it wasn't Tressel. Tressel shouldn't have been out of a job nor should anyone be condemning him.

improbus
11-25-2012, 02:04 PM
Every fan base without a major history of scandal has the initial attitude, "well, (insert successful program) is obviously cheating" until it happens to them. Then, once a program has gotten busted the quote changes to, "well, everybody does it".

traderumor
11-25-2012, 02:08 PM
Well i'm certainly not perfect, I predicted Romney would carry Florida and I predicted that the Reds would win game 3 against the Poseys.

But I don't cheat, and I don't lie (and trust me, that's the way the national John Q Public views Tressel, fairly or
not ) and while I might forgive those who do, I don't agree with treating them like a hero before a National TV audience. Hasn't been a day in the last 20 years I haven't been willing to forgive Pete, but would draw the line at carrying him around the field before the world series.

Not a smart move. Nuff said.You just lied there. Everyone lies. Maybe not as a lifestyle, but everyone says things that are not complete and accurate truth, if not daily, at least regularly. I'm sure you probably mean "really big lies" vs. "little white lies" or some silly distinction like that, but regardless, the self-righteousness is just as repugnant as someone caught red-handed lieing.

I like the idea of forgiving others who lie and cheat, you know, getting them specks out of their eyes, but don't forget to check your eye for that beam in it.

traderumor
11-25-2012, 02:15 PM
Now, my thoughts on Tressel, I am in the Brutus camp, and don't care much for Gene Smith for letting a subordinate take his fall. So maybe that was for him a personal goodie to outweigh his baddie for the whole sordid affair. But I always find redemption a great theme and self-righteous indignation and finger wagging distasteful and normally more hypocritical than the "willing to forgive and move on" crowd.

Just like as time passes, the more distasteful the Penn State punishment reeks of overkill and example setting by an organization out of control (NCAA).

Mutaman
11-25-2012, 02:31 PM
Yesterday was incredibly fun and I enjoyed every second of it. I bet that makes you mad.

Not at all. I like to see fellow Redlegs fans have fun.

Mutaman
11-25-2012, 02:33 PM
You just lied there. Everyone lies. Maybe not as a lifestyle, but everyone says things that are not complete and accurate truth, if not daily, at least regularly.


Semantics. You and I define the word "lie" differently.

traderumor
11-25-2012, 04:35 PM
Semantics. You and I define the word "lie" differently.Yea, I mentioned that kind of silliness in the same post that you didn't bother to quote. It isn't like there is a lot of gray area in "lie," just rationalization. But whatever, I think it is pretty easy to see the arrogance of anyone claiming to "not lie or cheat" as a basis for claiming moral superiority, so I'll let the ridiculous claim you made to speak for itself.

smith288
11-26-2012, 08:51 PM
Didn't see the game but reading reports that Tressel was saluted and received a "thunderous ovation". Is this true?

Not a smart move as far as the way the non-Buckeye world views this university. Guess I just wasn't made for these times.

Tressel is a terrific human being and I don't think anyone here said he is perfect. He is being honored for his contributions to the university and city during the 2001/02 season.

Oh, and we don't care what nonfans think. Not sure why you care how OSU fans appreciate a former coach.

Roy Tucker
11-26-2012, 09:39 PM
It's all part of the OSU scarlet and gray kool-aid....

Looking at it from the outside, I can see how people might think its odd.

But I certainly have a fuzzy spot in my heart for Tressel and what he did for the team and the school pre-tattoos. I don't want him anywhere near the program, but I still like the guy and I still wear my OSU sweater vest.

Hell, Woody Hayes worked himself back into good graces with the Buckeyes after okey-doking Charlie Bauman.

traderumor
11-28-2012, 12:39 PM
It's all part of the OSU scarlet and gray kool-aid....

Looking at it from the outside, I can see how people might think its odd.

But I certainly have a fuzzy spot in my heart for Tressel and what he did for the team and the school pre-tattoos. I don't want him anywhere near the program, but I still like the guy and I still wear my OSU sweater vest.

Hell, Woody Hayes worked himself back into good graces with the Buckeyes after okey-doking Charlie Bauman.I battle whether or not the favorable reaction was appropriate, but when I look at the flip side, if he had been booed, then the likely reaction would have been "man, how classless to boo a coach who made a mistake but otherwise was a good coach."

It was a tough call no matter what decision was made, so that makes it a little hard to criticize, but to appreciate that someone made a tough call whether or not to invite him at all. I imagine they received some input from several decision makers and participants and went with the consensus opinion--or at least that is how I would have approached it if planning the event.

I think it is an interesting dynamic to see how people react. Someone at Ohio State should write a behavioral science dissertation on the reactions.

cincrazy
11-28-2012, 07:41 PM
Show me a legendary coach without some kind of blot on his resume or skeletons in his closet. Woody punched a player and had a furious temper, Bear was notoriously harsh, Bowden had the "Free Shoes University" blip, Paterno we won't even talk about, Meyer had a spate of arrests at Florida, I could go on and on. Tressel is not a saint or a hero. He's human. And he deserved to be recognized for his accomplishments. If you ask me, he's already paid dearly for his mistakes. Time to move on. I think it's possible to recognize all the good that he did, while also acknowledging the mistakes. I don't think cheering him was ignoring the mistake. IMO, the good outweighs the bad. BY FAR. And most people feel the same way.

traderumor
12-01-2012, 02:58 PM
http://www.topix.net/ncaa/ohio-state-football/2012/12/drew-sharp-osus-crooked-ways-will-carry-them-back-into-bcs-title-contention

It is hard for me to fathom that anyone would pay someone else to write this poorly. Are there no standards? A third grader could provide us more depth. What's ironic is that there's more corruption in one day of Detroit politics than there has been in a lifetime of Ohio State illegal acts.

And what's really funny is that I think in our culture, there are many more offended at NCAA rulebook infractions that are not illegal acts than they are at actual illegal acts.

Red Buckeye
12-04-2012, 01:45 PM
I for one had tears streaming down my cheeks when the players lifted Tressel on their shoulders. He is a class act guy.
And I have a story much more personal than winning football games (which between that and the scandal, seem to be the only thing the OSU haters focus on).

In 2005, my 4 year old nephew was battling cancer at the OSU Hospital. Sadly he didn't make it, but when fighting it in 2005 he was absolutely delighted when Coach Tressel, Troy Smith, and A.J Hawk all came into his hospital room to see him and cheer him up. Tressel had no obligation to do this, he did this voluntarilly and out of the goodness of his heart. After that eventful day, Troy Smith came in 3 more times in the next 2 months to hang with my nephew. Again, Troy had no obligation to this at all, but having Coach Tressel as a coach brought out the best in a lot of players. Many players would say Jim would helpthem see what really matters in life. My family is forever grateful for the kind acts of Tressel and company in bringing some joy to my nephews last few months of life.

And another thing, the United Way was saddened when Tressel was let go because they were afraid their BIGGEST DONOR in the state of Ohio would no longer be able to donate the huge sums that Tressel had been giving to them ( I found out later Coach is still donating to them even after being let go by OSU)

So when news broke of the scandal I immediately knew Tressel was just looking out for his players, who looked at Coach Jim as a father figure.

So anyone here who has something bad to say about Coach can go F themselves. My family and I saw firsthand what kind of man Jim Tressel is.

Did he make a mistake about the e-mails? Yes. But if anyone here tries to tell me they have never made a mistake then I have to ask why is God on a message board?

Maybe the haters here only focus on the winning of games or the mistake Coach Tressel made, but for those who have met the man personally and have been affected by his good heart, we know he is not a good, but an outstanding human being.

For me, seeing Coach honored wasn't just about the 2002 season, it was about honoring a class act guy, and I will always love Coach Tressel.

We love you Coach.

*BaseClogger*
12-04-2012, 06:19 PM
WTF Bret Bielema? I'll miss you!

traderumor
12-04-2012, 11:18 PM
WTF Bret Bielema? I'll miss you!Good riddance, can't stand the dude.

*BaseClogger*
12-05-2012, 10:10 AM
Good riddance, can't stand the dude.

Me neither, but I believe he was slowly running that program into the ground--I have nightmares of Barry Alvarez...

Hillsdale87
12-05-2012, 10:31 AM
Me neither, but I believe he was slowly running that program into the ground--I have nightmares of Barry Alvarez...

3 straight rose bowl appearances. He's had more success than Alvarez did, although Alvarez laid the groundwork. Bielema is about as obnoxious, self righteous, and apparently hypocritical as they come, but I think he was a pretty good coach.

*BaseClogger*
12-05-2012, 11:07 AM
3 straight rose bowl appearances. He's had more success than Alvarez did, although Alvarez laid the groundwork. Bielema is about as obnoxious, self righteous, and apparently hypocritical as they come, but I think he was a pretty good coach.

Meh, they had to poach a QB last year and only went 7-5 in an extremely weak B1G this season. He was 2-4 in bowl games and is such an ass that most of his talented assistants had abandoned him. His recruiting class last year was subpar, as evident from the whiny comments he made after Urban Meyer stole one of his recruits. My opinion is more based on how I would have expected his Wisconsin team to perform on the field over the next few years than how they have performed in the past...

Edit: regarding Alvarez, he had to lay the foundation for the football program at Wisconsin, so of course his overall W-L record is worse than Bielema's, who was riding his coattails. Alvarez was 8-3 in bowl games and actually *won* all three of his Rose Bowl appearances.

Chip R
12-05-2012, 11:55 AM
I for one had tears streaming down my cheeks when the players lifted Tressel on their shoulders. He is a class act guy.
And I have a story much more personal than winning football games (which between that and the scandal, seem to be the only thing the OSU haters focus on).

In 2005, my 4 year old nephew was battling cancer at the OSU Hospital. Sadly he didn't make it, but when fighting it in 2005 he was absolutely delighted when Coach Tressel, Troy Smith, and A.J Hawk all came into his hospital room to see him and cheer him up. Tressel had no obligation to do this, he did this voluntarilly and out of the goodness of his heart. After that eventful day, Troy Smith came in 3 more times in the next 2 months to hang with my nephew. Again, Troy had no obligation to this at all, but having Coach Tressel as a coach brought out the best in a lot of players. Many players would say Jim would helpthem see what really matters in life. My family is forever grateful for the kind acts of Tressel and company in bringing some joy to my nephews last few months of life.

And another thing, the United Way was saddened when Tressel was let go because they were afraid their BIGGEST DONOR in the state of Ohio would no longer be able to donate the huge sums that Tressel had been giving to them ( I found out later Coach is still donating to them even after being let go by OSU)

So when news broke of the scandal I immediately knew Tressel was just looking out for his players, who looked at Coach Jim as a father figure.

So anyone here who has something bad to say about Coach can go F themselves. My family and I saw firsthand what kind of man Jim Tressel is.

Did he make a mistake about the e-mails? Yes. But if anyone here tries to tell me they have never made a mistake then I have to ask why is God on a message board?

Maybe the haters here only focus on the winning of games or the mistake Coach Tressel made, but for those who have met the man personally and have been affected by his good heart, we know he is not a good, but an outstanding human being.

For me, seeing Coach honored wasn't just about the 2002 season, it was about honoring a class act guy, and I will always love Coach Tressel.

We love you Coach.

But he cost your team a shot at the BCS Championship with his mistake(s).

Red Buckeye
12-05-2012, 12:03 PM
Like I said, there is more to life than football. He isn't just a football coach to me and my family.

And I personally think the NCAA unfairly punished OSU. Teams in the SEC do far worse and nothing seems to happen to them.

RiverRat13
12-05-2012, 01:53 PM
But he cost your team a shot at the BCS Championship with his mistake(s).

If he never makes his mistakes, he's still the coach at OSU and I doubt they are 12-0. The main reason I say that is because without Tatgate, Pryor would have been the QB last year and Miller would have been a first time starter this season and I don't see OSU going undefeated without Braxton having gained experience last year. Plus while I love Tressel, I still think Meyer is the better coach.

Chip R
12-05-2012, 02:00 PM
If he never makes his mistakes, he's still the coach at OSU and I doubt they are 12-0. The main reason I say that is because without Tatgate, Pryor would have been the QB last year and Miller would have been a first time starter this season and I don't see OSU going undefeated without Braxton having gained experience last year. Plus while I love Tressel, I still think Meyer is the better coach.

If Tressel came clean about Tatgate when he first found out about it, Pryor would have still been suspended and most likely would have gone pro like he did anyway. tOSU would have paid their penance last year while Miller was the QB. They wouldn't have gone to a bowl last year and he would have had the same amount of experience he did this year. Whether Tressel would have gone undefeated with this bunch is speculation. While Tressel may not be the same caliber coach as Urban Meyer, he was certainly no slouch and could very well have guided the Buckeyes to an undefeated season and a possible shot at the BCS Championship. You have to think an undefeated tOSU trumps a 1 loss Alabama.

jimbo
12-05-2012, 02:22 PM
But he cost your team a shot at the BCS Championship with his mistake(s).

Getting a shot at the championship is pretty small compared to what Red Buckeye's nephew went through during his short life, when considering the world we live in. It's nice to hear these stories about Tressel the person, even though they don't get the glory nor the headlines written by people who want to burn him at the stake for one mistake.

It's hard to believe someone can read that story and only come out of it saying, well he cost you a shot at the championship.

traderumor
12-05-2012, 02:30 PM
It is easy to call Tressel a liar and a cheat and totally forget that what got him in trouble wasn't so black and white. Take a view of the facts and circumstances longitudinally in 5, 10, 20 years and he might not look like such the villain. The players, (Herron, Pryor) deserve most of the blame for the short-term effects on the program, and Gene Smith is also culpable. Tressel is primarily a scapegoat.

It is not a black and white issue, and I think history will help people to see that, once time has its effects on emotions and helps people to see things a little more objectively. Right now, its just so much grave dancing by people either bitter about the post-Tressel effects or people who don't like the Buckeyes, and especially like to see a person generally viewed as an upright person get caught doing something wrong. It is a pathetic side of human nature that I despise.

But doing something very wrong on his job shouldn't erase years of his record as a humanitarian, esp. considering the nature of the "crimes." The negative words used to describe Tressel far exceed the nature of the "crimes."

Redsfaithful
12-05-2012, 03:43 PM
But he cost your team a shot at the BCS Championship with his mistake(s).

I know a lot of Ohio State fans offline and none blame Tressel.

Chip R
12-05-2012, 04:21 PM
Getting a shot at the championship is pretty small compared to what Red Buckeye's nephew went through during his short life, when considering the world we live in. It's nice to hear these stories about Tressel the person, even though they don't get the glory nor the headlines written by people who want to burn him at the stake for one mistake.

It's hard to believe someone can read that story and only come out of it saying, well he cost you a shot at the championship.

But he did, though and nobody cared about what he did off the field when he lost a game.


It is easy to call Tressel a liar and a cheat and totally forget that what got him in trouble wasn't so black and white. Take a view of the facts and circumstances longitudinally in 5, 10, 20 years and he might not look like such the villain. The players, (Herron, Pryor) deserve most of the blame for the short-term effects on the program, and Gene Smith is also culpable. Tressel is primarily a scapegoat.

It is not a black and white issue, and I think history will help people to see that, once time has its effects on emotions and helps people to see things a little more objectively. Right now, its just so much grave dancing by people either bitter about the post-Tressel effects or people who don't like the Buckeyes, and especially like to see a person generally viewed as an upright person get caught doing something wrong. It is a pathetic side of human nature that I despise.

But doing something very wrong on his job shouldn't erase years of his record as a humanitarian, esp. considering the nature of the "crimes." The negative words used to describe Tressel far exceed the nature of the "crimes."

Tressel's a great guy. No argument there. Give him the Nobel Prize and a key to the city. But coaches are ultimately judged by wins and losses. No tOSU fan would give two hoots in hell about Tressel if he were a bad coach. He's a heckuva coach and a heckuva guy. But he made a mistake which not only cost the Buckeyes a shot at the BCS Championship but the money that went along with it and stigmatized Tressel (fairly or unfairly) as a liar and a cheater.


I know a lot of Ohio State fans offline and none blame Tressel.

They should because he's as guilty for them not going to the postseason this year as if tOSU lost a game because he called the wrong play. The players committed the violations - no question about it. But, as we've seen over at Penn State and other places, the cover-up was the bigger problem. Tressel thought he had a team that could go all the way so instead of running the risk of having some of his best players being suspended that year, he covered it up until it was no longer possible to cover it up. Then, when the hammer came down, it was too late to penalize that year's team so this year's team had to pay the price.

Red Buckeye
12-05-2012, 04:46 PM
But he did, though and nobody cared about what he did off the field when he lost a game.



Tressel's a great guy. No argument there. Give him the Nobel Prize and a key to the city. But coaches are ultimately judged by wins and losses. No tOSU fan would give two hoots in hell about Tressel if he were a bad coach. He's a heckuva coach and a heckuva guy. But he made a mistake which not only cost the Buckeyes a shot at the BCS Championship but the money that went along with it and stigmatized Tressel (fairly or unfairly) as a liar and a cheater.



They should because he's as guilty for them not going to the postseason this year as if tOSU lost a game because he called the wrong play. The players committed the violations - no question about it. But, as we've seen over at Penn State and other places, the cover-up was the bigger problem. Tressel thought he had a team that could go all the way so instead of running the risk of having some of his best players being suspended that year, he covered it up until it was no longer possible to cover it up. Then, when the hammer came down, it was too late to penalize that year's team so this year's team had to pay the price.


Maybe you don't care about what the man did off the field, but I did. And it is upsetting to hear people smear a man who has probably done more great things as a human being when he was a coach at OSU than most people do in a lifetime.

I am not denying he made a huge mistake in lying to the NCAA. But that shouldn't define the man. It's just a sad truth of this world that so many people, ESPN, Buckeye Haters, would rather constantly focus on the negatives of the sporting than the positves.Never once did I hear ESecPN mention Tressel's trips to the children's hospital, his donations to the United Way. But they kept a constant scrolling ticker on the scandal. Hell, they even tried to sue OSU for info.

But I am probably getting off base here, my point is I am not upset that OSU got a bowl ban. It wasn't Tressel's fault, it was the NCAA unfair ruling that gave OSU the bowl ban. The punishment simply didn't fit the crime.

You reasons for Tressel covering it up couldn't be further from the truth. I promise you winning games wasn't his reason for what he did.

Redsfaithful
12-05-2012, 04:56 PM
They should because he's as guilty for them not going to the postseason this year as if tOSU lost a game because he called the wrong play.

Not really. The NCAA gave a penalty that was basically unprecedented. They wanted to bring the hammer down hard because of the current environment. If it had happened five years ago they wouldn't have gotten a bowl ban. I'll go ahead and keep blaming the NCAA for being senseless and stupid, because they are both.

Honestly, I got plenty of enjoyment out of this season. BCS bowls are fun, but they are something else anyway. They have never felt all that connected to the actual season, what with being 5-6 weeks after the end of the regular season.

Chip R
12-05-2012, 06:02 PM
Not really. The NCAA gave a penalty that was basically unprecedented. They wanted to bring the hammer down hard because of the current environment. If it had happened five years ago they wouldn't have gotten a bowl ban. I'll go ahead and keep blaming the NCAA for being senseless and stupid, because they are both.

Honestly, I got plenty of enjoyment out of this season. BCS bowls are fun, but they are something else anyway. They have never felt all that connected to the actual season, what with being 5-6 weeks after the end of the regular season.

What you guys seem to be saying is that since Tressel is such a great guy that he is immune to criticism. That it's everybody else's fault but his. I guarantee you that you and your fellow Buckeye fans didn't take the same approach when tOSU lost a game.

Redsfaithful
12-05-2012, 06:29 PM
What you guys seem to be saying is that since Tressel is such a great guy that he is immune to criticism.

Maybe you can show me a post where anyone has said that, but I haven't seen it? He clearly did something wrong in this case, but it was not at all wrong enough to merit having to resign or a bowl ban for Ohio State.

And I got frustrated with him at times while coaching like any fan, but I never wanted him fired at any point.

Sea Ray
12-05-2012, 10:07 PM
You folks who follow Ohio State closely:

Why do you suppose we're not hearing Tressel's name mentioned with all these job openings? Does he have a debt to pay to the NCAA for his misdoings? Has he made it clear that he's a Buckeye and doesn't desire another job? As a Tennessee alum, I'd be fine with them kicking the tires on Tressel. Just wonderin'.

BuckeyeRed27
12-05-2012, 11:07 PM
You folks who follow Ohio State closely:

Why do you suppose we're not hearing Tressel's name mentioned with all these job openings? Does he have a debt to pay to the NCAA for his misdoings? Has he made it clear that he's a Buckeye and doesn't desire another job? As a Tennessee alum, I'd be fine with them kicking the tires on Tressel. Just wonderin'.

I believe he has a 4 or 5 year show-cause penalty.

Mutaman
12-05-2012, 11:41 PM
As a Tennessee alum,

well that explains a lot of things. :)

I can't understand why Tennessee doesn't offer Tressel a job either. After Bruce Pearl, he'd fit right in.

RiverRat13
12-06-2012, 09:08 AM
If Tressel came clean about Tatgate when he first found out about it, Pryor would have still been suspended and most likely would have gone pro like he did anyway.

Tressel was informed of the situation in April 2010. Had he come clean, the Tat-5 would have missed the first four/five games of the '10 season and that would have been the end of it. There would have been no bowl ban as that was to rectify OSU playing Arkansas in the Sugar Bowl after Tress lied about when he was first told of the situation. Pryor would have been the QB in '11 and Miller would have been a first-time starter this season.

bucksfan2
12-06-2012, 09:33 AM
You folks who follow Ohio State closely:

Why do you suppose we're not hearing Tressel's name mentioned with all these job openings? Does he have a debt to pay to the NCAA for his misdoings? Has he made it clear that he's a Buckeye and doesn't desire another job? As a Tennessee alum, I'd be fine with them kicking the tires on Tressel. Just wonderin'.

There is that show cause that he has to overcome. To be honest I don't know if he will take another college job. Its one of those things that you get to your dream job, have great success at your dream job, where else can you go?

I have a feeling if he takes another job its a NFL job.

Sea Ray
12-06-2012, 10:40 AM
well that explains a lot of things. :)

I can't understand why Tennessee doesn't offer Tressel a job either. After Bruce Pearl, he'd fit right in.

So you think Tressel is tarnished beyond repair because of what happened in Columbus? OK, you might be right. That's why I threw it out there

traderumor
12-06-2012, 10:50 AM
What you guys seem to be saying is that since Tressel is such a great guy that he is immune to criticism. That it's everybody else's fault but his. I guarantee you that you and your fellow Buckeye fans didn't take the same approach when tOSU lost a game.Re-read my post. I said he was guilty of breaking NCAA rules. He did lie and "cheat." However, doing those things does not necessarily mean a person is a liar or a cheater, as in that is their lifestyle.

My objection is the flippant use of the strong words such as "liar" and "cheater," as if that was reflective of the character exhibited throughout his tenure at tOSU. Tressel was guilty, the nature of the rules infractions were serious, and he was crucified when all he deserved was a public flogging.

Mutaman
12-06-2012, 11:02 AM
he was crucified when all he deserved was a public flogging.

Well, not exactly a public flogging. In fact, and in public, he was carried around on the field by his former players and received a standing ovation from grateful Buckeye fans in front of a national TV audience. Which is what prompted my complaint in the first place. Not exactly a crucifixion.

Chip R
12-06-2012, 11:57 AM
Re-read my post. I said he was guilty of breaking NCAA rules. He did lie and "cheat." However, doing those things does not necessarily mean a person is a liar or a cheater, as in that is their lifestyle.

I didn't say he was a liar and a cheater. I said what he did - lie and cheat - stigmatized him as a liar and cheater much like Buckeye fans see other coaches who break the rules as liars and cheaters. I'm sure non-Kentucky fans see John Calipari as a cheater even though the UK fans will come back and say that Calipari was cleared by the NCAA of any wrongdoing. It's easy - especially on a forum where you are anonymous - to call out rivals for wrongdoing but when your guy does the same thing, it's get the wagons in a circle and attack back. It's also easier to criticize when you don't know the man personally. That's why Red Buckeye is sensitive to criticism about Tressel. He knows the man and has personal knowledge of his good deeds. He feels that his good works trumps his mistakes.


My objection is the flippant use of the strong words such as "liar" and "cheater," as if that was reflective of the character exhibited throughout his tenure at tOSU. Tressel was guilty, the nature of the rules infractions were serious, and he was crucified when all he deserved was a public flogging.

Character is irrelevant in this discussion. My original comment was that Tressel's actions - and inactions - cost tOSU a chance at the BCS Championship this year. Only RiverRat13 has argued otherwise. Everyone else says that whatever mistakes Tressel made doesn't make him a bad guy. It would be nice if every coach and athlete did good deeds like Tressel did and does but if Tressel were a .500 coach at tOSU and lost a few times to Michigan, I don't think people would be all that quick to mention all the good deeds he did.

cincrazy
12-06-2012, 04:00 PM
Tressel isn't the only one that failed here. It was an institutional failing. I'll go to my grave believing he told other people in the athletic department.

traderumor
12-07-2012, 06:05 PM
Well, not exactly a public flogging. In fact, and in public, he was carried around on the field by his former players and received a standing ovation from grateful Buckeye fans in front of a national TV audience. Which is what prompted my complaint in the first place. Not exactly a crucifixion.Yea, well we're talking about two different things. The analogy was related to his firing and NCAA punishment, you were talking about the horror of honoring someone who had sinned. Have you finished that Scarlet block O with a line through it yet? Maybe you can have that ready by Christmas so we can put it under the tree for him. That'll show him.

traderumor
12-07-2012, 06:07 PM
I didn't say he was a liar and a cheater. I said what he did - lie and cheat - stigmatized him as a liar and cheater much like Buckeye fans see other coaches who break the rules as liars and cheaters. I'm sure non-Kentucky fans see John Calipari as a cheater even though the UK fans will come back and say that Calipari was cleared by the NCAA of any wrongdoing. It's easy - especially on a forum where you are anonymous - to call out rivals for wrongdoing but when your guy does the same thing, it's get the wagons in a circle and attack back. It's also easier to criticize when you don't know the man personally. That's why Red Buckeye is sensitive to criticism about Tressel. He knows the man and has personal knowledge of his good deeds. He feels that his good works trumps his mistakes.



Character is irrelevant in this discussion. My original comment was that Tressel's actions - and inactions - cost tOSU a chance at the BCS Championship this year. Only RiverRat13 has argued otherwise. Everyone else says that whatever mistakes Tressel made doesn't make him a bad guy. It would be nice if every coach and athlete did good deeds like Tressel did and does but if Tressel were a .500 coach at tOSU and lost a few times to Michigan, I don't think people would be all that quick to mention all the good deeds he did.Not one thing to refute there because its all speculation on your part.

Brutus
12-09-2012, 05:03 AM
Tressel isn't the only one that failed here. It was an institutional failing. I'll go to my grave believing he told other people in the athletic department.

I've said this before on here and I will gladly say it again because it's coming directly from people who would know... Tressel did his job as he is supposed to do.

Truthfully, if people knew the real story, it could be argued no rules were broken by Ohio State. But at minimum, Tressel did what the NCAA actually expects coaches to do in these situations.

jojo
12-09-2012, 07:53 PM
Like I said, there is more to life than football. He isn't just a football coach to me and my family.

And I personally think the NCAA unfairly punished OSU. Teams in the SEC do far worse and nothing seems to happen to them.

That's a load of crap. Any team in the SEC that did what OSU did wouldve faced the same outcome. Alabama has had to forfeit or vacate 29 games since the early 90's.

traderumor
12-09-2012, 08:34 PM
That's a load of crap. Any team in the SEC that did what OSU did wouldve faced the same outcome. Alabama has had to forfeit or vacate 29 games since the early 90's.I guess we'll see with whatever is brewing with Auburn.

jojo
12-09-2012, 08:40 PM
I guess we'll see with whatever is brewing with Auburn.

There isn't anything brewing in Auburn but this quote is about the most flaccid thing a defender of OSU could've posted in the context of this discussion.

traderumor
12-10-2012, 11:59 AM
There isn't anything brewing in Auburn but this quote is about the most flaccid thing a defender of OSU could've posted in the context of this discussion.I thought there was an investigation going on there, perhaps I'm mistaken about that. I don't know what your snipe is supposed to mean, guess its a failure of my OSU degree to understand your fancypants insult.

jojo
12-10-2012, 12:04 PM
I thought there was an investigation going on there, perhaps I'm mistaken about that. I don't know what your snipe is supposed to mean, guess its a failure of my OSU degree to understand your fancypants insult.

Clearly your degree wasnt in investigative journalism.

traderumor
12-10-2012, 02:09 PM
Clearly your degree wasnt in investigative journalism.Ok, moving on, I can't break the code.

jojo
12-10-2012, 02:16 PM
Ok, moving on, I can't break the code.

Put the decoder ring away and just try reading for comprehension:

http://www.redszone.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2784978

traderumor
12-10-2012, 03:11 PM
Put the decoder ring away and just try reading for comprehension:

http://www.redszone.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2784978Still lost. I did check to make sure I wasn't remembering wrong, and there is a yahoo story of an NCAA investigation going on at Auburn, so what am I missing here?

jojo
12-10-2012, 03:21 PM
Still lost. I did check to make sure I wasn't remembering wrong, and there is a yahoo story of an NCAA investigation going on at Auburn, so what am I missing here?

The story isnt valid but this had been addressed elsewhere (i.e. the SEC thread there the context is actually appropriate) making the original point about you bringing it up in a context of a conversation defending OSU just a flaccid attempt at deflection all the more germane.

traderumor
12-10-2012, 03:57 PM
The story isnt valid but this had been addressed elsewhere (i.e. the SEC thread there the context is actually appropriate) making the original point about you bringing it up in a context of a conversation defending OSU just a flaccid attempt at deflection all the more germane.Thanks, Dr. Cooper. I wasn't even the one making the "if the SEC did it" comment. It is the end of the year--casting my vote now for Most Infuriating At Times poster.

bucksfan2
12-10-2012, 04:07 PM
Thanks, Dr. Cooper. I wasn't even the one making the "if the SEC did it" comment. It is the end of the year--casting my vote now for Most Infuriating At Times poster.

Pat Forde is wrong, at least that is what I am told.

traderumor
12-10-2012, 04:13 PM
Pat Forde is wrong, at least that is what I am told.That is fine, thanks for not brow beating me because I happened to hear the first part of the story and didn't do a follow up investigative report before daring to post on a message board.

*BaseClogger*
12-10-2012, 04:23 PM
The story isnt valid but this had been addressed elsewhere (i.e. the SEC thread there the context is actually appropriate) making the original point about you bringing it up in a context of a conversation defending OSU just a flaccid attempt at deflection all the more germane.

Joe?

http://www.wosn.tv/btpblog/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Joe-Germaine-and-John-Cooper-talking-at-the-Shoe.jpg

Red Buckeye
12-10-2012, 04:30 PM
http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/11/21/auburn-under-ncaa-investigation-for-potential-football-violations/


Yup Auburn is being investigated.

Sea Ray
12-10-2012, 04:47 PM
http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/11/21/auburn-under-ncaa-investigation-for-potential-football-violations/


Yup Auburn is being investigated.

I don't have any inside sources so I honestly don't know if Auburn is being investigated but the link you posted is the same source (Yahoo!/Pat Forde) that JoJo claims to be false. There hasn't been any other source making this claim. Time will tell who's right

jojo
12-10-2012, 06:09 PM
http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/11/21/auburn-under-ncaa-investigation-for-potential-football-violations/


Yup Auburn is being investigated.

Taylor was briefly grounded as a self-imposed penalty for a self-reported secondary violation. If Trooper Taylor actually was the subject of an active investigation there is no way that Auburn would have let him back out on the recruiting trail.

Sorry but any argument otherwise is kind of silly in the face of facts.

cincrazy
12-11-2012, 12:17 AM
The NCAA has actually punished the SEC more than any other conference, so the argument that they hit OSU harder than others doesn't hold any weight. We broke the rules, we paid the price. It is what it is.

With that being said, perhaps the Forde article is false, but to pretend that Auburn shouldn't be questioned or is beyond reproach is laughable. Maybe the concrete proof will never surface, but it's known that Cam's dad was shopping his services. I find it hard to believe Auburn and every other school in line recruiting him didn't know of this. They did a good job of covering up their trail so the NCAA couldn't bust their chops. I don't believe it's a matter of favortism or bias, just a matter of not enough evidence.

Brutus
12-11-2012, 04:05 AM
I thought there was an investigation going on there, perhaps I'm mistaken about that. I don't know what your snipe is supposed to mean, guess its a failure of my OSU degree to understand your fancypants insult.

There hasn't yet been any formal allegations, but they were most definitely investigating and so based on your comments as you phrased them, you were absolutely correct.

jojo
12-11-2012, 07:54 AM
With that being said, perhaps the Forde article is false, but to pretend that Auburn shouldn't be questioned or is beyond reproach is laughable.

Who has argued that? Seriously.

The NCAA exhaustively investigated Cam's recruitment.

If the NCAA hadn't talked to Auburn about Memphis about a player Auburn signed, especially since Auburn was one of the schools that reported the transcript discrepancy despite the student athlete in question making it through both the NCAA's and Auburn's clearing house, THAT would be a story. In fact THAT would be a reason to get pitchforks and storm the castle.

But THAT was not what actually happened. Forde acted like he had a scoop by repackaging old news with a little new salacious salt mixed in to make it seem like he had a nefarious yarn to spin. But Forde failed to also discuss all of things that made his new soup taste mostly bland and unappealing.

jojo
12-11-2012, 08:02 AM
There hasn't yet been any formal allegations, but they were most definitely investigating and so based on your comments as you phrased them, you were absolutely correct.

The NCAA is investigating Memphis area recruiting and if one really wanted to say a focus was upon any particular institution, then the correct assertion would've been that the NCAA is investigating Memphis area recruiting with a focus upon MSU. As part of that investigation, the NCAA has talked to all institutions that have signed players from a particular school so naturally Auburn officials would be questioned. To suggest that Auburn is the focus of an NCAA investigation is not absolutely correct based upon everything known publicly.

In a thread where the devils in the details have been treated with the utmost respect by some, almost like foreign dignitaries, its kind of surreal to see that spirit not be applied consistently.

traderumor
12-11-2012, 08:31 AM
The NCAA is investigating Memphis area recruiting and if one really wanted to say a focus was upon any particular institution, then the correct assertion would've been that the NCAA is investigating Memphis area recruiting with a focus upon MSU. As part of that investigation, the NCAA has talked to all institutions that have signed players from a particular school so naturally Auburn officials would be questioned. To suggest that Auburn is the focus of an NCAA investigation is not absolutely correct based upon everything known publicly.

In a thread where the devils in the details have been treated with the utmost respect by some, almost like foreign dignitaries, its kind of
surreal to see that spirit not be applied consistently.Seriously, this is a message board. "Surreal" will happen when one of the well known posters on here turns out to be a serial killer or terrorist. Consistency in argumentation surreal? More dramatic than my teenage daughter.

jojo
12-11-2012, 08:44 AM
Seriously, this is a message board. "Surreal" will happen when one of the well known posters on here turns out to be a serial killer or terrorist. Consistency in argumentation surreal? More dramatic than my teenage daughter.

It's the inconsistency in argumentation that's surreal but if you prefer different language, how about, disappointing? But your post seems to argue that inconsistent standards are to be expected, so how about telling concerning the strength of the argument?

Cedric
12-11-2012, 08:44 AM
Trooper Taylor is a legend in the making.

His name will forever go down as one of the shadiest characters in NCAA history. And that's a feat.

traderumor
12-11-2012, 10:27 AM
It's the inconsistency in argumentation that's surreal but if you prefer different language, how about, disappointing? But your post seems to argue that inconsistent standards are to be expected, so how about telling concerning the strength of the argument?Um, no, just brushing off your comments as melodrama. I know where you stand on Auburn, you made that clear during the Cam Newton trials. There seems to be a strange blinding that goes on with college athletics fans, whether they are OSU or Auburn or any other school. It just affects folks ability to face reality. We are all guilty, even you.

sonny
12-11-2012, 10:39 AM
Jonathan Hankins is going pro. OSU will have to replace entire defensive line next year.

jojo
12-11-2012, 12:03 PM
Um, no, just brushing off your comments as melodrama. I know where you stand on Auburn, you made that clear during the Cam Newton trials. There seems to be a strange blinding that goes on with college athletics fans, whether they are OSU or Auburn or any other school. It just affects folks ability to face reality. We are all guilty, even you.


I was right about Auburn though and there were reasons for chosing to stand where I stood that didn't have anything to do with a bias. Can others say where they stood was consistent with how the NCAA ruled about any of the programs being discussed in this thread? That isn't me calling anyone out. It's addressing the white elephant in the living room concerning the notion you're espousing above.

I don't defend things that don't deserve defense. If there was even a shred of a reason to believe Auburn was involved in having the transcripts of student athletes altered for purposes of defrauding the NCAA clearinghouse, i'd have a dramatically different take on Forde's tripe.

BuckeyeRed27
12-11-2012, 12:43 PM
Jonathan Hankins is going pro. OSU will have to replace entire defensive line next year.

That's a good move for Hankins. It will stink not having him back, but I think between the last two recruiting classes there is enough to replace that line.

traderumor
12-11-2012, 02:04 PM
I was right about Auburn though and there were reasons for chosing to stand where I stood that didn't have anything to do with a bias. Can others say where they stood was consistent with how the NCAA ruled about any of the programs being discussed in this thread? That isn't me calling anyone out. It's addressing the white elephant in the living room concerning the notion you're espousing above.

I don't defend things that don't deserve defense. If there was even a shred of a reason to believe Auburn was involved in having the transcripts of student athletes altered for purposes of defrauding the NCAA clearinghouse, i'd have a dramatically different take on Forde's tripe.A wise man wrote "pride comes before a fall."

jojo
12-11-2012, 02:15 PM
A wise man wrote "pride comes before a fall."

Where is the pride? Ya popped off and got called on it in redszone tradition. Why not just let it go?

Brutus
12-11-2012, 03:03 PM
The NCAA is investigating Memphis area recruiting and if one really wanted to say a focus was upon any particular institution, then the correct assertion would've been that the NCAA is investigating Memphis area recruiting with a focus upon MSU. As part of that investigation, the NCAA has talked to all institutions that have signed players from a particular school so naturally Auburn officials would be questioned. To suggest that Auburn is the focus of an NCAA investigation is not absolutely correct based upon everything known publicly.

In a thread where the devils in the details have been treated with the utmost respect by some, almost like foreign dignitaries, its kind of surreal to see that spirit not be applied consistently.

The NCAA doesn't have jurisdiction over Memphis. It has jurisdiction over its member schools. So prima facie, it stands to reason that it's investigating Auburn and not Memphis recruiting.

It might well be an investigation that involves multiple schools that were recruiting in the city of Memphis, but it's still inaccurate to suggest anything other than they're investing Auburn.

Brutus
12-11-2012, 03:08 PM
I was right about Auburn though and there were reasons for chosing to stand where I stood that didn't have anything to do with a bias. Can others say where they stood was consistent with how the NCAA ruled about any of the programs being discussed in this thread? That isn't me calling anyone out. It's addressing the white elephant in the living room concerning the notion you're espousing above.

I don't defend things that don't deserve defense. If there was even a shred of a reason to believe Auburn was involved in having the transcripts of student athletes altered for purposes of defrauding the NCAA clearinghouse, i'd have a dramatically different take on Forde's tripe.

Actually the NCAA ruled that Cam's father DID solicit money -- an allegation that you staunchly denied. And the NCAA basically said that it could not prove no money changed hands, it just could not show that it did.

You went to great lengths to discredit the initial report by ESPN as being false and not having anything to do with Auburn. But as it turns out, the report that Cam's father was soliciting money in his recruitment was deemed to be accurate by the NCAA.

jojo
12-11-2012, 03:59 PM
The NCAA doesn't have jurisdiction over Memphis. It has jurisdiction over its member schools. So prima facie, it stands to reason that it's investigating Auburn and not Memphis recruiting.

It might well be an investigation that involves multiple schools that were recruiting in the city of Memphis, but it's still inaccurate to suggest anything other than they're investing Auburn.

Actually they are investigating recruiting activities involving Memphis area student athletes. It's absolutely inaccurate to suggest that the NCAA is focusing upon Auburn Univeristy in this regard.

jojo
12-11-2012, 04:14 PM
Actually the NCAA ruled that Cam's father DID solicit money -- an allegation that you staunchly denied. And the NCAA basically said that it could not prove no money changed hands, it just could not show that it did.

You went to great lengths to discredit the initial report by ESPN as being false and not having anything to do with Auburn. But as it turns out, the report that Cam's father was soliciting money in his recruitment was deemed to be accurate by the NCAA.

Actually this quote is not accurate in it's characterization of details. Since two Auburn-Cam threads reside in the archives, Rather than rehash, I welcome anyone interested in the underlying arguments to reread them and decide for themselves which position maintained throughout those threads was consistent with the ultimate NCAA ruling and which one wasn't.

For context and to get this thread back on topic, here are the two NCAA statements about it's investigations into the programs in question:


After conducting more than 80 interviews, the NCAA has concluded its investigation into Auburn University. The NCAA enforcement staff is committed to a fair and thorough investigative process. As such, any allegations of major rules violations must meet a burden of proof, which is a higher standard than rampant public speculation online and in the media. The allegations must be based on credible and persuasive information and includes a good-faith belief that the Committee on Infractions could make a finding. As with any case, should the enforcement staff become aware of additional credible information, it will review the information to determine whether further investigation is warranted.
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Latest+News/2011/October/NCAA+statement+on+Auburn+football+investigation

Basically the NCAA indicated that given the lack of any credible information regarding allegations despite its extensive investigation of Cam's recruitment, the NCAA could not in good faith continue. This was an exoneration not a "we just couldn't get them this time" statement.




The Ohio State University was cited for failure to monitor, preferential treatment and extra benefit violations in its football program, according to findings announced today by the Division I Committee on Infractions. The former head coach also was found to have engaged in unethical conduct for not reporting NCAA rule violations.
The penalties in this case, some of which were self-imposed by the university and adopted by the committee, include a one-year postseason ban for the 2012 season, additional scholarship reductions, disassociation of both an involved booster and a former student-athlete, forfeiture of almost $340,000 and a vacation of records. In addition, the former head coach received a five-year show-cause order that limits his athletically related duties and applies to any NCAA member school which may consider employing him. The public report includes additional details.
According to the facts of the case, eight football student-athletes received more than $14,000 in cash payments or preferential treatment from the owner of a Columbus, Ohio, tattoo parlor. In addition to free or discounted tattoos and cash for memorabilia received by these student-athletes, one football student-athlete received a loan and discount on a car.
The committee also found the former head coach concealed these NCAA violations when he was notified of the situation, which led to his unethical conduct finding.
“Of great concern to the committee was the fact that the former head coach became aware of these violations and decided not to report the violations to institutional officials, the Big Ten Conference or the NCAA,” the committee stated in its report.
Specifically, the committee noted that the former head coach had at least four different opportunities to report the information, and his failure to do so led to allowing several football student-athletes to compete while ineligible. Many of these student-athletes were key contributors to the team’s winning 2010 season.
Following the Committee on Infractions hearing on August 12, the enforcement staff and university investigated additional allegations that had come to light. These additional violations centered on a booster providing nine football student-athletes with more than $2,400 in payments for work not performed and cash. The university also was cited for failing to monitor the booster’s employment of football student-athletes. Ohio State conceded it could have done more to monitor the booster by taking additional steps that would have reduced the likelihood of these violations occurring.
The penalties, some of which were self-imposed by the university and adopted by the committee, include:
• Public reprimand and censure.
• Three years of probation from Dec. 20, 2011, through Dec. 19, 2014. The public report contains further details on the conditions of this probation.
• Postseason ban for the 2012 football season, which includes the conference championship game.
• Reduction of football scholarships from 85 to 82 for each of the 2012-13, 2013-14 and 2014-15 academic years. This is an increase from the university’s proposal of five initial scholarships spread over three academic years.
• Vacation of all wins for the 2010 football regular season, including the 2010 Big Ten Conference co-championship and participation in the 2011 Sugar Bowl. The public report contains further details (self-imposed by the university).
• Forfeiture of $338,811, which is the amount the university received through the Big Ten Conference revenue sharing for its appearance in the bowl game (self-imposed by the university).
• Five-year show-cause order for the former head coach. The public report contains further details.
• Disassociation of the booster for 10 years, including among other conditions, the prohibition of any financial or other support (self-imposed by the university).
• Disassociation of a former student-athlete for five years, including among other conditions, the prohibition of any financial or other support (self-imposed by the university).
The members of the Committee on Infractions who reviewed this case include Dr. Dennis Thomas, the commissioner of the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference and chair of the Committee on Infractions. Other members are Britton Banowsky, commissioner of Conference USA; John S. Black, attorney; Melissa (Missy) Conboy, deputy director of athletics at the University of Notre Dame; Roscoe Howard, Jr., attorney; Eleanor Myers, faculty athletics representative and law professor at Temple University; James O’Fallon, law professor and faculty athletics representative for University of Oregon; and Gregory Sankey, associate commissioner of the Southeastern Conference.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/resources/latest+news/2010+news+stories/december/ncaa+statement+on+fairness+of+rules+decisions

This investigation turned out differently. Below is a 35 page pdf further explaining the specifics of the NCAA evidence.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/pdfs/2011/ohio+state+coi+public+report

dabvu2498
12-11-2012, 04:34 PM
This discussion needs to die. Immediately. Nobody is interested in continuing the Cam Newton stuff except you two. If you feel that urge strongly enough, please do it via PM. Thanks.

traderumor
12-11-2012, 05:43 PM
Where is the pride? Ya popped off and got called on it in redszone tradition. Why not just let it go?Auburn is under investigation. It sounds like you have popped off about the veracity of that investigation at this stage. In the grand scheme of life, I could care less.

jojo
12-11-2012, 05:58 PM
Auburn is under investigation.

Please follow the mod's request and take it private.

*BaseClogger*
12-12-2012, 01:37 AM
Any word on whether Bradley Roby is going pro?

sonny
12-12-2012, 07:46 AM
Any word on whether Bradley Roby is going pro?

I hope not. IMO, he needs a little more experience and a little more muscle.

traderumor
12-12-2012, 11:51 AM
Please follow the mod's request and take it private.I wasn't in the Cam Newton debate, that was you and Brutus, thus the "you two" did not include me. No need to PM, I said what I needed to.

bucksfan2
12-12-2012, 12:43 PM
Any word on whether Bradley Roby is going pro?

Isn't he a Soph? If he is he can't go pro.

*BaseClogger*
12-12-2012, 12:51 PM
Isn't he a Soph? If he is he can't go pro.

He red-shirted...

RiverRat13
01-01-2013, 01:38 PM
Tweet from Michael Carvell, the AJC's recruiting reporter:

"I seriously can't believe how many top GA 2014 kids list OhioSt as one of leaders. It's like an invasion"

Reds/Flyers Fan
01-02-2013, 12:23 PM
Tweet from Michael Carvell, the AJC's recruiting reporter:

"I seriously can't believe how many top GA 2014 kids list OhioSt as one of leaders. It's like an invasion"

Love it! Come to Ohio!

BuckeyeRed27
02-06-2013, 01:41 PM
So that Urban Meyer guy can recruit a little bit huh?

LoganBuck
02-06-2013, 02:10 PM
So that Urban Meyer guy can recruit a little bit huh?

I saw this on Twitter, in regards to Urban Meyer wanting more night games.

Urban Meyer's plan for more night games includes scheduling earlier sunsets. OSU looking into it. #boss.

HeatherC1212
02-06-2013, 03:06 PM
Awesome. Simply awesome recruiting by Urban and his staff. Go Bucks! :thumbup:

cincrazy
02-06-2013, 04:03 PM
James Clark. Vonn Bell. Dontre Wilson. They've seemingly landed every single guy that was a "toss-up." And they blew Alabama out of the dust for Bell, our only true competition for his services was Tennessee.

BuckeyeRed27
02-06-2013, 04:34 PM
James Clark. Vonn Bell. Dontre Wilson. They've seemingly landed every single guy that was a "toss-up." And they blew Alabama out of the dust for Bell, our only true competition for his services was Tennessee.

When the biggest drama of NSD is if your punter might flip, you are having a great day.

jojo
02-06-2013, 06:33 PM
Here is an average of team rankings (247, Scouts, Rivals, ESPN):

1. Ohio State
2. Alabama
3. Florida
4. Notre Dame
5. Michigan
6. Ole Miss
7. LSU
8. Texas AM
9. UCLA
t10. FSU
t10. Auburn
12. Georgia
13. Clemson
14. Washington
15. Oklahoma
16. USC
17. Nebraska
18. South Carolina
t19. Texas
t19. Oregon
21. Virginia Tech
22. Mississippi State
23. Vandy
24. Baylor
25. Tennessee

Five of the top 10 are from the SEC West, 7 of the top 12 are from the SEC. But OSU topped the board. Normally 16th would be acceptable for most, but oh how USC has fallen...

BuckeyeRed27
02-06-2013, 07:09 PM
USC had some decommits so it wasn't as good as a class it could have been, but it was also a very small class due to sanctions. Smaller classes usually don't rate as high in these type of rankings.

RiverRat13
02-08-2013, 09:22 AM
Smaller classes usually don't rate as high in these type of rankings.

Yep. USC still had the highest average recruit star player of any class, just had less scholarships to give.

jojo
02-08-2013, 10:30 AM
Yep. USC still had the highest average recruit star player of any class, just had less scholarships to give.

They also had several guys flip away.

jojo
03-14-2013, 06:17 PM
Roh roh...

http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2013/03/13/columbus-multiple-ohio-state-university-football-players-investigated-for-alleged-rape.html

LoganBuck
03-14-2013, 06:29 PM
Roh roh...

http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2013/03/13/columbus-multiple-ohio-state-university-football-players-investigated-for-alleged-rape.html

Internet rumors seem to indicate that the player at the center of this is no longer with the team.

jojo
04-08-2013, 01:37 PM
Turns out Brutus has no game..... Aubie would kick his buckeyed butt...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl40OBEdN08

Chip R
04-10-2013, 10:00 AM
Columbus area tOSU fans, are you upset that the spring game is being played in Cincinnati? Some people down here are upset because they don't want tOSU invading their territory but I was thinking how people in the Columbus area feel about not having the game in their city.

sonny
04-10-2013, 10:25 AM
Columbus area tOSU fans, are you upset that the spring game is being played in Cincinnati? Some people down here are upset because they don't want tOSU invading their territory but I was thinking how people in the Columbus area feel about not having the game in their city.

I'm not particularly upset, but I know plenty of people who are up in arms about it. It's also not being televised, so there's a contingent who believe they're being robbed of their God given right to all things Buckeye football. I'm going to spend time with my family, I suggest these people do the same.

Hoosier Red
04-19-2013, 01:05 PM
Sonny,
If you had met their families, you wouldn't make that recommendation. :D

HeatherC1212
04-19-2013, 01:12 PM
I'm not particularly upset, but I know plenty of people who are up in arms about it. It's also not being televised, so there's a contingent who believe they're being robbed of their God given right to all things Buckeye football. I'm going to spend time with my family, I suggest these people do the same.

It was actually televised on Big Ten Network at 7 PM the same night (a friend of mine watched and filled me in on some of it because I wasn't home).