9/15/12 - Reds @ Marlins (More of Valdez and Stubbs)

[Tom Servo]

Phillips 4
Valdez 6
Votto 3
Ludwick 7
Bruce 9
Rolen 5
Stubbs 8
Hanigan 2
Cueto RHP

[WebScorpion]

Stubbs will probably start all three games as they have a huge center field. At least we have the option. :dunno:

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips flies out to center.

[Reds Fanatic]

Valdez singles to left center.

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto flies out to the track in right center. 2 outs. At home that would be gone.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ludwick strikes out swinging. 0-0 mid 1st.

[Reds Fanatic]

Peterson flies out to left.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ruggiano singles to center.

[Reds Fanatic]

Reyes bloop hit to left center. 1st and 2nd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Stanton triples to the wall in right. 2-0 Marlins

[Red in Chicago]

Subpar Cueto yet again

[Reds Fanatic]

Lee sac fly to right. 3-0 Marlins

[Crumbley]

I'd skip Cueto next time through the rotation, maybe a little rest fixes him.

[Matt700wlw]

Cueto's running out of gas...

[Tom Servo]

I don't like September 2012 Cueto.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

This is getting problematic with Cueto. I'd definitely skip his next start.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dobbs grounds out to Hanigan. 3-0 Marlins after 1.

[traderumor]

Somebody forgot to tell the Marlins they stink.

[traderumor]

Shouldn't we wait until the outing is complete before making conclusions?

[Reds Fanatic]

Couple updates from around the NL:

Nationals lost 5-4 to the Braves.

Astros lead the Phillies 2-0 in the first.
Mets and Brewers tied 1-1 in the first.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce strikes out looking.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rolen fouls out to 1st.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Shouldn't we wait until the outing is complete before making conclusions?

I don't see how there can't be conclusions drawn from Cueto's last two or three starts.

[Reds Fanatic]

Stubbs strikes out looking. 3-0 Marlins mid 2nd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Solano grounds out to 2nd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Brantly doubles to right.

[traderumor]

I don't see how there can't be conclusions drawn from Cueto's last two or three starts.
I do. Pitchers go through tough stretches also. Concluding that "he is tired, should be skipped, is ineffective because he needs rest" is reactionary. If he gets knocked around the yard tonight after 3 or 4 innings, then let's talk. But making conclusions after a rough 1st inning is a knee jerk reaction.

Although it is the game thread, so knee jerk reactions are pretty common.

[Reds Fanatic]

Buehrle strikes out looking.

[Reds Fanatic]

Peterson walks. 1st and 2nd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ruggiano strikes out swinging. 3-0 Marlins after 2.

[edabbs44]

I do. Pitchers go through tough stretches also. Concluding that "he is tired, should be skipped, is ineffective because he needs rest" is reactionary. If he gets knocked around the yard tonight after 3 or 4 innings, then let's talk. But making conclusions after a rough 1st inning is a knee jerk reaction.

Although it is the game thread, so knee jerk reactions are pretty common.

I'd also leave it up to the powers that be. It could be a legitimate issue or it could be one of those things. The FO is likely aware of his struggles and I would guess that, if the feeling is that he is dragging a bit, he'll get some rest. But if their analysis is that he is throwing the same as he was a month ago, he might still be throwing throughout Sept.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hanigan singles to left.

[Reds Fanatic]

Good bunt as usual by Cueto.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips strikes out swinging.

[Reds Fanatic]

Valdez singles to left. 3-1 Marlins. Valdez's 2nd hit tonight.

[Red in Chicago]

Wilson with an RBI single to left scoring the slow moving Hanigan nonetheless. What are the odds:p

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto grounds out to 2nd. 3-1 Marlins mid 3rd.

[Tom Servo]

Votto, Ludwick and Bruce could learn a thing or two from Valdez. :eek:

[Brutus]

Wilson Valdez providing for the only signs of life in the offense right now.

Dec. 21 can't get here fast enough.

[Reds Fanatic]

Reyes pops out to 3rd.

[WrongVerb]

If you think about it, that first inning wasn't even that rough. Cueto got a ground ball, then a dink over Valdez, then a guy who's going to hit mistakes hard hit a mistake hard. After that he got a fly ball and an easy out to end the inning.

I'm with Kelch though, in wondering why Cueto is gassing it up there in the first few innings. Something is playing on his mind.

[Reds Fanatic]

Stanton singles to left.

[Reds Fanatic]

Lee pops out to 2nd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hanigan nails Stanton at 2nd. 3-1 Marlins after 3.

[Red in Chicago]

Terrific throw by Hanigan

[Tom Servo]

If you think about it, that first inning wasn't even that rough. Cueto got a ground ball, then a dink over Valdez, then a guy who's going to hit mistakes hard hit a mistake hard. After that he got a fly ball and an easy out to end the inning.

I'm with Kelch though, in wondering why Cueto is gassing it up there in the first few innings. Something is playing on his mind.
If it were just this start, you'd be right. But he looked as bad as he's ever been in his last start against Houston and fell apart suddenly in the start before that against Philadelphia. I don't know what's wrong, if anything, but I don't think commenting on it is an overreaction.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ludwick pops out to 2nd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce to 3rd on a ball off the right fielders glove.

[Reds Fanatic]

Scored a triple for Bruce.

[Tom Servo]

Scored a triple for Bruce.
To get out of that funk, I'd take it. :thumbup:

[Reds Fanatic]

Infield hit for Rolen. 3-2 Marlins.

[Red in Chicago]

Rolen with an infield RBI single. Another oddity :p

[Crumbley]

I do. Pitchers go through tough stretches also. Concluding that "he is tired, should be skipped, is ineffective because he needs rest" is reactionary. If he gets knocked around the yard tonight after 3 or 4 innings, then let's talk. But making conclusions after a rough 1st inning is a knee jerk reaction.

Although it is the game thread, so knee jerk reactions are pretty common.
The division is locked up and he's never thrown this many innings, why not pump the brakes a little where you can? I don't think having that POV is some freak out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Stubbs strikes out looking again.

[Tom Servo]

Stubbs strikes out looking again.
Who'd have thunk it?

[Reds Fanatic]

A long foul by Hanigan

[Reds Fanatic]

Hanigan strikes out swinging. 3-2 Marlins mid 4th.

[dsmith421]

Man, when Drew's BABIP normalizes he is just going to be unstoppable the three times a week he makes contact.

[Brutus]

I'm starting to feel like Dusty and Drew are doing the limbo... how low can you go?

.214 average, .281 OBP and .627 OPS.

Seriously now, what is it going to take for the Reds to admit it's time to move on from Drew? Especially when they have an in-house option with an OPS nearly 140 points higher.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dobbs flies out to right.

[Reds Fanatic]

I'm starting to feel like Dusty and Drew are doing the limbo... how low can you go?

.214 average, .281 OBP and .627 OPS.

Seriously now, what is it going to take for the Reds to admit it's time to move on from Drew? Especially when they have an in-house option with an OPS nearly 140 points higher.

I think in this park Drew is playing for defense only. At this point you pretty much know it is hopeless on offense.

[Reds Fanatic]

Solano triples to right center.

[Tadasimha]

If you think about it, that first inning wasn't even that rough. Cueto got a ground ball, then a dink over Valdez, then a guy who's going to hit mistakes hard hit a mistake hard. After that he got a fly ball and an easy out to end the inning.

I'm with Kelch though, in wondering why Cueto is gassing it up there in the first few innings. Something is playing on his mind.

Cueto thinks he's got the Cy Young if he gets 20 wins - he's been pressing for a couple of games now, giving up runs early.

[Crumbley]

Could Stubbs' OPS dip below .600 before it's over?

[Reds Fanatic]

Brantly walks. 1st and 3rd.

[Tom Servo]

game full of triples

[Tadasimha]

Damn fine play there by Cueto!

[Reds Fanatic]

Nice play by Cueto on the squeeze attempt.

[Red in Chicago]

Cueto with an awesome play to tag out runner

[hebroncougar]

That was one of the best fielding plays I've ever seen by a pitcher.

[Red in Chicago]

He played that perfectly

[Reds Fanatic]

That was great. If he would have tried to flip it to Hanigan the runner would have beat it.

[Brutus]

OH MY

Funniest message from the "Scout" feature on MLB gameday EVER.

"Dangerous count for Johnny Cueto; Mark Buerhle is a dead-red fastball hitter with a .171 OPS against them this season and .108 against everything else."

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[Reds Fanatic]

Peterson pops out to short. 3-2 Marlins after 4.

[Reds Fanatic]

Cueto grounds out to short.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips grounds out to short.

[Reds Fanatic]

Valdez flies out to center. 3-2 Marlins mid 5th.

[Tadasimha]

If Votto's knee was better, I'd be tempted to bat him 1st and move Phillips back to 3rd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ruggiano and Reyes double. 4-2 Marlins.

[Reds Fanatic]

Good play by Phillips.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ugh. Lee homers near that ridiculous sculpture in left center. 6-2 Marlins.

[Tadasimha]

I don't think it's overreacting to think Cueto needs a break anymore.

[Reds Fanatic]

Cingrani in to pitch

[VR]

Hopefully a skipped start or extra couple of days off can do it for Johnny. He's needed for the Reds to have any hope in October.

[Tom Servo]

I really do like Dusty, but I don't get the 'stay with the starter until the game is out of reach' approach he has.

[Reds Fanatic]

Error on Cingrani

[Reds Fanatic]

Solano strikes out swinging.

[Reds Fanatic]

Brantly walks.

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto grounds out to 2nd.

[VR]

Good thing Buerle keeps coming up every inning, he's the only guy they can get out. :)

[Reds Fanatic]

Stanton robs Ludwick

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce flies out to center. 6-2 Marlins mid 6th.

[Tadasimha]

that was quick

[Reds Fanatic]

Peterson strikes out swinging. 3 Ks for Cingrani

[Tadasimha]

Well, we get to see some of what Cingrani's got at least.

[Wonderful Monds]

His fastball looks way faster than 92.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ruggiano flies out to right.

[Reds Fanatic]

They are talking about Cingrani being on the playoff roster. I thought you were not eligible if you were a September callup.

[Reds Fanatic]

Reyes singles to left.

[Reds Fanatic]

Arredondo in to pitch

[Kc61]

I really do like Dusty, but I don't get the 'stay with the starter until the game is out of reach' approach he has.

I think Dusty stays with starters when he expects them to pitch well.

I don't think he lets pitchers continue if he thinks they are likely to lose the game.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hanigan nails another runner.

[Tadasimha]

Hanigan nails another runner.

Hanigan has blossomed this season and become one of the best catchers in the game.

[Kc61]

Reds have two weeks to get Cueto back to himself.

I don't know if his problem is overthrowing, injury, distracted, tired, mechanics, bad luck, or what.

If he doesn't show he is back to form, I hope the Reds don't start him in Game 1 of the playoffs.

But they probably will anyway.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rolen flies out to right.

[Tadasimha]

Reds have two weeks to get Cueto back to himself.

I don't know if his problem is overthrowing, injury, distracted, tired, mechanics, bad luck, or what.

If he doesn't show he is back to form, I hope the Reds don't start him in Game 1 of the playoffs.

But they probably will anyway.

A week off and then a game the last week of the season to see where he is.

I'd actually start Latos and Bailey on the road and start Cueto and Arroyo at home.

[Reds Fanatic]

Drew actually swings and reaches as Reyes cant field it cleanly.

[Reds Fanatic]

Another error as Hanigan hits a foul ball that Lee drops.

[Reds Fanatic]

Wow. that is blown call. He was out. Lee dropped it just transferring the ball out of his glove.

[Tadasimha]

Drew actually swings and reaches as Reyes cant field it cleanly.

Gave Reyes an error on that.

LOL

Break for the Reds, there as Lee fields the foul popup and then drops it and the ump rules it no catch.

[Red in Chicago]

Bad call by ump.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hanigan flies out to right

[Reds Fanatic]

Cards go up 2-0 in the first on a Craig homer.

[Reds Fanatic]

Frazier flies out to center. 6-2 Marlins mid 7th.

[Kc61]

Reds face Nolasco tomorrow, a very hot pitcher. Hopefully, the Marlins don't bring out the brooms, but the way the Reds are hitting, a sweep is certainly possible.

Next year, I'd like to see Stubbs and Heisey elsewhere and the Reds to add two contact hitting outfielders, guys who slash singles and doubles. That would help in stadiums like Miami.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hoover in to pitch.

Stanton reaches as Valdez throws away an easy play.

[Reds Fanatic]

They give Stanton a hit on that and goes to 2nd on the error

[Tadasimha]

Hoover in to pitch.

Stanton reaches as Valdez throws away an easy play.

Wasn't that easy a play - Stanton runs well and it was a long throw. Still should have gotten him but it would have been close.

[Reds Fanatic]

Lee pops out to 1st.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dodgers score in the bottom of the 1st. Now 2-1 Cards.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dobbs flies out to center. Stanton to 3rd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Solano strikes out swinging. 6-2 Marlins after 7.

[Reds Fanatic]

Brandon grounds out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Valdez strikes out swinging.

[traderumor]

What I see with Cueto is location, location, location. He still has velocity, his changeup is still plus, but he's been having trouble getting the ball down. I'm guessing its a mechanical adjustment more than a fatigue issue, just my opinion. Skipping him a start might do more just for the mental side of things than anything physical at this stage.

Because with all the hand wringing, if he's tired, that isn't going to be resolved in time for the playoffs. One also has to consider that he has been putting up his numbers leaving an inordinate amount of guys on base. This could just be a period of regression to norm.

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto doubles to left. Another head first slide. I think he is afraid to slide feet first right now.

[Reds Fanatic]

Boom. Ludwick homers to left. 6-4 Marlins.

[Tadasimha]

Cut into the lead a little there!

[Reds Fanatic]

Dunn in to pitch

[Tom Servo]

Boom. Ludwick homers to left. 6-4 Marlins.
:jump:


First since August 18th for him

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce pops out to 3rd. 6-4 Marlins mid 8th.

[Reds Fanatic]

Sean Marshall in to pitch

[Reds Fanatic]

Brantly strikes out swinging.

Kearns pinch hitting

[Reds Fanatic]

Kearns walks

[Reds Fanatic]

Peterson pops out to 1st.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ruggiano strikes out. 6-4 Marlins after 8.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rolen, Stubbs (please pinch hit) and Hanigan due up

[Reds Fanatic]

Steve Cishek in to pitch

[Kc61]

Dodgers tie up Cards.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dodgers tie the Cards in the 3rd on a Mark Ellis homer.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rolen grounds out to 3rd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Paul hitting for Stubbs

[VR]

How many times has Stubby been PH for this year? Doesn't seem common.

[Reds Fanatic]

Paul strikes out swinging.

[Kc61]

Paul strikes out swinging.

Stubbs could have done that.

[Reds Fanatic]

Navarro hitting for Hanigan singles to center.

[Reds Fanatic]

Heisey pinch hitting

[Reds Fanatic]

Heisey strikes out swinging. Reds lose 6-4.

[Tom Servo]

We're still bad

[Kc61]

Heisey is a master at the half swing third strike.

[oneupper]

In the end, I actually made it down to Marlins Stadium for this one. Didn't bring the team any luck. Sorry.:(

Good number of REDS fans present, including a 6-7 year old kid who got hit by a foul ball line drive right in front of us. He's ok. Took it to the shoulder.

[WVRedsFan]

Heisey is a master at the half swing third strike.
So true. The kid is not the replacement for Stubbs. That should come through a trade. But, what do I know?

[WVRedsFan]

In the end, I actually made it down to Marlins Stadium for this one. Didn't bring the team any luck. Sorry.:(

Good number of REDS fans present, including a 6-7 year old kid who got hit by a foul ball line drive right in front of us. He's ok. Took it to the shoulder.

Hate to see that. Took my son to a game about that age. Made sure we were out of danger for things like that. It's just me. Glad the kid is OK.

[redsmetz]

I sent Joel Luckhaupt a note on Twitter asking about how rare an unassisted out at home plate by the pitcher is. He said it happens more than we think, but the last time for the Reds was Ryan Dempster beginning a double play that way. It was shown as one of the top 5 plays in the box score for baseball-reference.com in a 2-1 win for the Reds over the then Devil Rays.

Double Play: Fielder's Choice P; Martin out at Hm/P; Liefer out at 3B/P-3B

That had to be a very rare double play.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TBA/TBA200306120.shtml