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View Full Version : The playoff rotation is just plain idiotic!



RedTruck
10-04-2012, 03:27 AM
Our current playoff rotation is just setting us up for failure.

This is how it should be:

Game 1: Latos (AKA The Giants Killer, 2-0 with 0.56 ERA this year).

You need that Game 1. It sets the tone for the entire series. Latos has OWNED the Giants throughout his entire career. Setting him up for Game 1 would've allowed him to pitch a potential Game 5 in Cincinnati.

Game 2: Homer Bailey

9-2 with a 2.45 Road ERA. He is scheduled to pitch (if necessary) Game 4 at HOME, where he is sporting an ERA in the mid 5's. Make's much sense.

Game 3: Johnny Cueto

10-3 with a 2.79 ERA at Home.

Pitching at GABP can be tricky at times. If anyone has mastered to pitch at GABP is Mr. Cueto.

Arroyo should be left off the roster as far as i'm concerned.

dubc47834
10-04-2012, 09:26 AM
Our current playoff rotation is just setting us up for failure.

This is how it should be:

Game 1: Latos (AKA The Giants Killer, 2-0 with 0.56 ERA this year).

You need that Game 1. It sets the tone for the entire series. Latos has OWNED the Giants throughout his entire career. Setting him up for Game 1 would've allowed him to pitch a potential Game 5 in Cincinnati.

Game 2: Homer Bailey

9-2 with a 2.45 Road ERA. He is scheduled to pitch (if necessary) Game 4 at HOME, where he is sporting an ERA in the mid 5's. Make's much sense.

Game 3: Johnny Cueto

10-3 with a 2.79 ERA at Home.

Pitching at GABP can be tricky at times. If anyone has mastered to pitch at GABP is Mr. Cueto.

Arroyo should be left off the roster as far as i'm concerned.

That's your opinion....but to say that it is idiotic is going a little far. I don't have a problem with the rotation. Would I like to see Homer pitch in San Fran...sure, but Homer has been pitching good recently, and that includes at GABP. His last home start they showed some stats that showed he was coming around at GABP. Plus with throwing the no-no, his confidence is thru the roof. How about doing some more supporting and rooting for the 2012 NL Central champs and a lot less name calling....just saying dude!!!

Girevik
10-04-2012, 10:30 AM
I'm not a big fan of Arroyo #2, and I don't know why you need a 4th starter in a short series like this.

StL_Dan
10-04-2012, 10:53 AM
Harold Reynolds and Dan Plesac liked the rotation against SFG because Cueto and Bailey are "fly ball" pitchers that theoretically would benefit from pitching in a huge park like AT&T. Then you have your power guy in Latos that can throw in GABP.

cooperlamar
10-04-2012, 12:19 PM
IMO, it should be Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Cueto, Latos. I'm not sure why we wouldn't want our best 2 starters both pitching 2 games.

Biff Pocoroba
10-04-2012, 01:13 PM
Cueto is a 19-game winner and a "finalist" for the Cy Young award. He also has pitched in the postseason. No way you can complain about him in game one.

Haivng lived in NYC for two decades, I have seen the benefit of having a crafty and more veteran pitcher going in game two. I have confidence that Arroyo will pitch well enough to give us a good shot to take that game.

Latos and Bailey make sense to me at home - yeah, I know that everyone brings up Bailey's road numbers, but I'd prefer both these guys pitching with the home crowd on their side.

I'd also say that Bailey late season performance has earned him a spot in the rotation. I'd rather roll the dice with him than potentially going with both Cueto and Latos on short rest.

Finally, you have to factor in the bullpen. If Cueto and Latos give you long outings in games one and three, then you got the entire bullpen at your disposal in games two and four.

If I were setting the rotation, maybe I'd do it a little differently, but to call it idiotic is over-the-top, when what we're really doing is splitting hairs.

IamRV
10-04-2012, 01:47 PM
Our current playoff rotation is just setting us up for failure.

This is how it should be:

Game 1: Latos (AKA The Giants Killer, 2-0 with 0.56 ERA this year).

You need that Game 1. It sets the tone for the entire series. Latos has OWNED the Giants throughout his entire career. Setting him up for Game 1 would've allowed him to pitch a potential Game 5 in Cincinnati.

Game 2: Homer Bailey

9-2 with a 2.45 Road ERA. He is scheduled to pitch (if necessary) Game 4 at HOME, where he is sporting an ERA in the mid 5's. Make's much sense.

Game 3: Johnny Cueto

10-3 with a 2.79 ERA at Home.

Pitching at GABP can be tricky at times. If anyone has mastered to pitch at GABP is Mr. Cueto.

...

Why would you expect this? Of course it would be best use of the players available but Dusty hasn't shown the propensity to follow this concept.

RedsBrick
10-04-2012, 01:57 PM
Our current playoff rotation is just setting us up for failure.

This is how it should be:

Game 1: Latos (AKA The Giants Killer, 2-0 with 0.56 ERA this year).

You need that Game 1. It sets the tone for the entire series. Latos has OWNED the Giants throughout his entire career. Setting him up for Game 1 would've allowed him to pitch a potential Game 5 in Cincinnati.

Game 2: Homer Bailey

9-2 with a 2.45 Road ERA. He is scheduled to pitch (if necessary) Game 4 at HOME, where he is sporting an ERA in the mid 5's. Make's much sense.

Game 3: Johnny Cueto

10-3 with a 2.79 ERA at Home.

Pitching at GABP can be tricky at times. If anyone has mastered to pitch at GABP is Mr. Cueto.

Arroyo should be left off the roster as far as i'm concerned.

I think Cueto's numbers on the road are a bit of an anomaly. His ERA is actually lower on the road. He did pitch a lot of games with funky line-ups.

I can't argue with the ace on the hump in game one.

jhiller21
10-04-2012, 02:25 PM
Arroyo throws enough fly balls that I'm confident pitching him in SF. Latos misses the most bats, so I'm okay with waiting until we get back home to pitch him.

Arroyo in GABP could be scary in the playoffs.

PumpFak3First
10-04-2012, 03:22 PM
Not pitching your ace in game 1 sends the wrong message, Cueto starts period. You guys over analyze and over think things entirely too much. Also like someone said Arroyo in SF I'm much more confident in as a fly ball pitcher. When he has an off inning at GABP it's like a 5 run inning. Latos has been in a nice groove recently so keep that groove rolling and pitch him at home where the crowd will be jacked. Same goes for Bailey. You have to remember both of those guys are young and are going to feel much more comfortable @ home in the playoff atmosphere.

I think Dusty has put good thought into the rotation and is doing the right thing.

HometownHero
10-04-2012, 08:30 PM
Bumgarner is going in game 2 for the Giants so game 1 is now mega important to our hopes as they have a great match up for game 2 and 4.

2012 Splits
10-3 with a 2.38 ERA and 1.02 WHIP and .219 BAA at home for Bumgarner
8-7 with a 3.57 ERA and 1.09 WHIP and .245 BAA on the road for Arroyo
should have been
9-2 with a 2.32 ERA and 1.00 WHIP and .213 BAA for Homer on the road

PumpFak3First
10-04-2012, 08:51 PM
We can get to Cain looking at the games he has pitched his numbers seem to inflate a touch against the better ball clubs. Come on Cueto do your thing! Arroyo pitching with a 1-0 series lead is almost a free roll no pressure which I like. At the same time if we go down 0-1 you have a vet who has been there before.

Also what is so great about Lincecum in game 4? Are we giving him the benefit of the doubt by name because he still is off as hell this year.

Cueto v Cain (ERA over last 3 months worse, than first 3 months, still a stud)
Arroyo v Bumgarner (September ERA over 5, previous worst month 3.94)
Latos v Vogelsong (Back to back months with an ERA over 6)
Bailey v Lincecum (Collective ERA past 2 months well over 4)

Norm Chortleton
10-04-2012, 09:20 PM
At AT&T Park:

Arroyo 0-4, 4.11 era
Latos 2-2, 1.67

PumpFak3First
10-04-2012, 10:20 PM
At AT&T Park:

Arroyo 0-4, 4.11 era
Latos 2-2, 1.67

Besides this year, where he gave up 2 ER in 6 innings in a no decision Arroyo hasn't pitched in a game there since 2009. Not relevant. Even in that game he went 7 innings and gave up 3 ER.

DocRed
10-04-2012, 10:22 PM
Dusty is BACK!!

Trajinous
10-04-2012, 10:24 PM
Call me a naive homer but I believe it doesn't matter. This rotation is great and see any order working out.

faffy42
10-04-2012, 10:42 PM
Our current playoff rotation is just setting us up for failure.

This is how it should be:

Game 1: Latos (AKA The Giants Killer, 2-0 with 0.56 ERA this year).

You need that Game 1. It sets the tone for the entire series. Latos has OWNED the Giants throughout his entire career. Setting him up for Game 1 would've allowed him to pitch a potential Game 5 in Cincinnati.

Game 2: Homer Bailey

9-2 with a 2.45 Road ERA. He is scheduled to pitch (if necessary) Game 4 at HOME, where he is sporting an ERA in the mid 5's. Make's much sense.

Game 3: Johnny Cueto

10-3 with a 2.79 ERA at Home.

Pitching at GABP can be tricky at times. If anyone has mastered to pitch at GABP is Mr. Cueto.

Arroyo should be left off the roster as far as i'm concerned.

This makes good sense to me...id prefer this rotation as well.

HometownHero
10-04-2012, 11:15 PM
Also what is so great about Lincecum in game 4? Are we giving him the benefit of the doubt by name because he still is off as hell this year.

He isn't Homer Bailey pitching in his own personal hell facing the NL's best road hitting team in a hitters park with several big bats that flat out rake in said park.

redsrolen
10-05-2012, 12:45 AM
He isn't Homer Bailey pitching in his own personal hell facing the NL's best road hitting team in a hitters park with several big bats that flat out rake in said park.

His 'own personal hell'...are you flippin kidding me??? I wonder how we won 97 games without your advise?? Have you ever heard of possitive energy?? Or are you a 'Cardinals fan' trolling here with all your negative comments....According to you, the Reds don't have a chance!! I'd say you're a Cards fan....Let it go....

PumpFak3First
10-05-2012, 01:36 AM
Someone brought up a good point to me earlier. We sandwiched Arroyo between Cueto and Latos. This gives us a guy in Bronson who is a soft thrower to keep the Giants bats off balance a bit since both Cueto and Latos can bring the heat. They won't be seeing the same style of pitcher on consecutive days.

Every little edge adds up.

HometownHero
10-05-2012, 01:36 AM
His 'own personal hell'...are you flippin kidding me??? I wonder how we won 97 games without your advise?? Have you ever heard of possitive energy?? Or are you a 'Cardinals fan' trolling here with all your negative comments....According to you, the Reds don't have a chance!! I'd say you're a Cards fan....Let it go....

So I take it that you've never seen Homer pitch at home? He gave up 21 jacks in 17 starts at home, we didn't win 97 games because of Homer pitching at GABP because in those 17 starts we went 6-11. So that's 35.5% of our losses at home this year coming in his starts and he personally took 8 of those losses which lead the team by 3.

PumpFak3First
10-05-2012, 01:41 AM
So I take it that you've never seen Homer pitch at home? He gave up 21 jacks in 17 starts at home, we didn't win 97 games because of Homer pitching at GABP because in those 17 starts we went 6-11. So that's 35.5% of our losses at home this year coming in his starts and he personally took 8 of those losses which lead the team by 3.

He's not going to risk throwing Homer Bailey out there on the road in game 2, especially with the possibility of facing a 0-1 hole. Dusty isn't going to do it and most managers wouldn't either. You want a veteran with experience like Arroyo in that 2 slot if Cueto stumbles. You do not want someone like Homer Bailey thinking the entire series is riding on his performance! Get that through your skull. This game is more than just damn numbers on a piece of paper.

HometownHero
10-05-2012, 02:12 AM
He's not going to risk throwing Homer Bailey out there on the road in game 2, especially with the possibility of facing a 0-1 hole. Dusty isn't going to do it and most managers wouldn't either. You want a veteran with experience like Arroyo in that 2 slot if Cueto stumbles. You do not want someone like Homer Bailey thinking the entire series is riding on his performance! Get that through your skull. This game is more than just damn numbers on a piece of paper.

The Risk is starting him at home in a game 4 at a park he sucks at in what could be a must win game. If the Cardinals Advance they are using Garcia in game two of the DS to use him to the strengths of his splits.

MLB Road rankings among SP with 10 ore more road starts and Homer's stats:
2.32 ERA 1st
.213 BAA 4th, Behind Gonzalez .208, Darvish .209 and Kershaw .210
1.00 WHIP 1st

Rather than having one of if not the best road pitcher in all of MLB this year pitch on the road in a pitchers park to a team with the MLB low 31 HR at home, he decides to have him face that team who is 2nd in all of MLB hitting on the road, in a park that's a hitters yard to a team who has players that crush at GABP to a guy who has massive issues pitching in the same park.

You want to put players in a position to succeed as a manager but this is setting a guy up to fail.

2012 Slash Splits
.213/.263/.296/.559 on Road
.299/.348/.526/.874 at home

So at home every hitter is 2012 Chase Headley on the road they are good hitting pitchers.

dubc47834
10-05-2012, 09:54 AM
The Risk is starting him at home in a game 4 at a park he sucks at in what could be a must win game. If the Cardinals Advance they are using Garcia in game two of the DS to use him to the strengths of his splits.

MLB Road rankings among SP with 10 ore more road starts and Homer's stats:
2.32 ERA 1st
.213 BAA 4th, Behind Gonzalez .208, Darvish .209 and Kershaw .210
1.00 WHIP 1st

Rather than having one of if not the best road pitcher in all of MLB this year pitch on the road in a pitchers park to a team with the MLB low 31 HR at home, he decides to have him face that team who is 2nd in all of MLB hitting on the road, in a park that's a hitters yard to a team who has players that crush at GABP to a guy who has massive issues pitching in the same park.

You want to put players in a position to succeed as a manager but this is setting a guy up to fail.

2012 Slash Splits
.213/.263/.296/.559 on Road
.299/.348/.526/.874 at home

So at home every hitter is 2012 Chase Headley on the road they are good hitting pitchers.

I think if the Reds are facing elimination that game that Cueto would be available to pitch. You know we wouldn't be the 1st team to use a 3 man rotation on a 5 game series.

webbbj
10-05-2012, 10:10 AM
Both homer and arroyo are better road pitchers than home pitchers. Latos is better at home and w/cueto it doesnt matter.

By that logic the rotation should be

Homer
Arroyo
Cueto
Latos


Im joking but that isnt happening.

One of Arroyo or Bailey was going to pitch at home, its unavoidable.

Arroyo is in a big park against a team that doesnt hit for power he will be fine. Play it safe get 5 -7 out of him depending on the situation and try to lock the late game down w/ the BP.


Bailey will be pitching in colder weather and against a low power hitting team. GABP may not be his best place but hes coming in as high as he possibly can and w/ the setup its about as good an opportunity he has to pitch great at home.

And it would be nice to finish these guys off in 4 then in the NLCS we can set the rotation normally with Cueto, Latos, Arroyo, Bailey.

osuredleg24
10-08-2012, 01:47 AM
LOL, bet you feel kinda dumb right now

Calten
10-08-2012, 02:12 AM
Arroyo really stunk it up tonight.....

HometownHero
10-08-2012, 02:50 AM
I wish we started Homer even more now especially after we scored 9 runs, Arroyo is miles better than Homer at home. The Giants are weak hitters at home with a .376 SLG at home, only 3 teams were worse than that. But they have 5th best slugging on the road and 2nd in NL behind the Nats and they play in a division with LA and SD which can drag down numbers.

GABP is a hitters park so the chances Homer slowing them down there will be microscopic with his .526 SLG allowed there this season. If he blows up and then with Cueto's health in issue and Cain lurking this isn't a very comfortable 2-0 lead to me.

I would be far more at ease with Arroyo trying to keep them off balance in the hitters park rather than getting in there and taking some strong hacks on fastballs at a hitters parks with their season on the line.

redsrolen
10-08-2012, 02:51 AM
So I take it that you've never seen Homer pitch at home? He gave up 21 jacks in 17 starts at home, we didn't win 97 games because of Homer pitching at GABP because in those 17 starts we went 6-11. So that's 35.5% of our losses at home this year coming in his starts and he personally took 8 of those losses which lead the team by 3.

Seriously???:p:p Just plain idiotic....Hmmmm.....Just not sure where you all come up with this craziness???

HometownHero
10-08-2012, 03:19 AM
Seriously???:p:p Just plain idiotic....Hmmmm.....Just not sure where you all come up with this craziness???

So if you don't think Homer is terrible at home you are either in denial or never seen him pitch at home, and if you never seen him pitch at home this all you need to look at his numbers.

Homer is one of the worst home pitchers in the majors at GABP while being one of the best on the road. His 21 HR allowed at home ranks #1 in NL at home and hits 121 hits also rank tops in the NL and his 63 ER lead the National League.

Not only did he allow those 21 HR he also added in 7 triples in his 17 home starts, only 15 hitters in the majors even managed to get more 7 as a hitter and most all of them did it more than the 405 AB it took Homer to yield them in.

But yeah lets ignore the facts.

SYCMiniBus
10-08-2012, 04:34 AM
For those of you wanting a three man rotation, have you seen the record of guys in the playoffs who pitch on short rest (game 1 starter would be back on short rest in game 4, game 2 starter same in game 5)? Let me give you a hint, it isn't pretty. Going with a four man rotation makes a lot more sense.

Biff Pocoroba
10-08-2012, 10:57 AM
RedTruck wrote: "Arroyo should be left off the roster as far as i'm concerned."


something sure turned out idiotic, but it wasn't Dusty's rotation

justincredible
10-08-2012, 11:37 AM
RedTruck wrote: "Arroyo should be left off the roster as far as i'm concerned."


something sure turned out idiotic, but it wasn't Dusty's rotation

Boom. :laugh:

Redlegs Homer
10-08-2012, 12:48 PM
Why would we go with a 3 man rotation when we have the depth to go with 4? Talking about idiotic...

Biff Pocoroba
10-10-2012, 10:55 AM
In case you are keeping score at home:

Bronson "should be dropped from the roster" Arroyo and Homer "can't pitch at GABP" Bailey have combined for 14 innnings of one-run, two-hit baseball.

This playoff rotation has been just plain unhittable.

webbbj
10-10-2012, 11:07 AM
I never had a problem with the rotation but now it has a whole new mess to deal with. Gotta go with Leake tonight.

texasdave
10-10-2012, 11:09 AM
Leake was excellent his last time out. Let's hope he can reprise that effort.

Mutaman
10-10-2012, 11:14 AM
Arroyo should be left off the roster as far as i'm concerned.


RedTruck should be left off the Sun Deck roster as far as I'm concerned.

dubc47834
10-10-2012, 11:53 AM
Our current playoff rotation is just setting us up for failure.

This is how it should be:

Game 1: Latos (AKA The Giants Killer, 2-0 with 0.56 ERA this year).

You need that Game 1. It sets the tone for the entire series. Latos has OWNED the Giants throughout his entire career. Setting him up for Game 1 would've allowed him to pitch a potential Game 5 in Cincinnati.

Game 2: Homer Bailey

9-2 with a 2.45 Road ERA. He is scheduled to pitch (if necessary) Game 4 at HOME, where he is sporting an ERA in the mid 5's. Make's much sense.

Game 3: Johnny Cueto

10-3 with a 2.79 ERA at Home.

Pitching at GABP can be tricky at times. If anyone has mastered to pitch at GABP is Mr. Cueto.

Arroyo should be left off the roster as far as i'm concerned.

RedTruck's new logic...
"Well... if Dusty woulda listened to me, Cueto wouldn't have been hurt annd we probly woulda swept by now!"

Newport Red
10-10-2012, 12:00 PM
RedTruck should be left off the Sun Deck roster as far as I'm concerned.

It looks like he left himself off the roster. His original post is his only post in this thread.