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View Full Version : Should Dusty have punted Game 1?



LawFive
10-10-2012, 11:00 AM
So its looking more and more like the Reds will be forced to throw Leake today...their #5 SP who, with the exception of one outing this year, has thrown mostly batting practice against the Giants.

Realizing that hindsight is 20/20...after Cueto's early departure in Game 1, should Dusty have gone ahead and just used LeCure/Simon/Hoover to get thru, no matter the results? That way they could have taken their chances with Arroyo in game 2 and Latos in game 3 as planned....leaving them with Bailey in game 4 and back to a rested Arroyo in game 5 if necessary.

Perception was that the Reds would be set up well if they could take at least 1 in SF...by burning Latos early sure they ended up taking 1 and 2, but now are left with question marks and guys on short rest to capture that elusive third win.

kaldaniels
10-10-2012, 11:03 AM
No. It was handled perfectly if you ask me.

Reds/Flyers Fan
10-10-2012, 11:04 AM
No.

They were handed a 1-hitter last night by Homer Bailey on a silver platter and they didn't take advantage. This series should be over.

oneupper
10-10-2012, 11:04 AM
Dusty did fine. Taking that first game on the road was crucial. Note that Latos didn't enter the game until they were up in the score.

oregonred
10-10-2012, 11:05 AM
Nope. Took some bad luck and a complete lack of offense in innings 2-10 to lose last night. Any offense whatsover and dominant Homer would be the toast of the town this morning.

Not walking Arias is the one that smarts. Would have taken out Romo, used up the last Giants position playr, setup a force at any base and forced the Giants to use Lincecum last night (making him unavailable for Game 4).

Baker played Saturday night perfectly.

Ironic that a team that made 161 starts is left scrambling for a 5th starter in the 4th game of a series. That's why baseball is so maddening but incredible to watch the ebbs and flows of a playoff series.

RedsManRick
10-10-2012, 11:05 AM
In hindsight, knowing we took Game 2, I think the instinct is to say yes. However, most of us were assuming a loss in Game 2 at the time.

In the playoffs, you don't punt. Wins are simply too valuable. Too much can happen in the future. We're still going to get a regular start out of Latos, if needed. The net impact of the decision was trading a 2nd Arroyo start for a Leake start, which isn't that big of a step down.

Reds Fanatic
10-10-2012, 11:06 AM
No way you don't ever give away trying to win a game.

They lost a game they could have won last night. It just bad luck what happened with Cueto but you deal with it.

redsfan30
10-10-2012, 11:07 AM
Why in God's Holy Name would you ever punt a Playoff game?????

cumberlandreds
10-10-2012, 11:07 AM
No you never punt a playoff game. Never. Ever.

Jefferson24
10-10-2012, 11:11 AM
If you punt game 1 and end up losing game 2 then you look like a chump. We still got 2 chances, if the Reds hit like they are capable then we should at least win one of those, if not we lose. This series is going to be decided by the bats not the arms.

hebroncougar
10-10-2012, 11:12 AM
So its looking more and more like the Reds will be forced to throw Leake today...their #5 SP who, with the exception of one outing this year, has thrown mostly batting practice against the Giants.

Realizing that hindsight is 20/20...after Cueto's early departure in Game 1, should Dusty have gone ahead and just used LeCure/Simon/Hoover to get thru, no matter the results? That way they could have taken their chances with Arroyo in game 2 and Latos in game 3 as planned....leaving them with Bailey in game 4 and back to a rested Arroyo in game 5 if necessary.

Perception was that the Reds would be set up well if they could take at least 1 in SF...by burning Latos early sure they ended up taking 1 and 2, but now are left with question marks and guys on short rest to capture that elusive third win.

Yeah. Punt one of the games we won. :confused:

Tom Servo
10-10-2012, 11:13 AM
No you never punt a playoff game. Never. Ever.
This.

LawFive
10-10-2012, 11:18 AM
Like I said, the question only arises in hindsight. Time yields clarity of vision. And at the time, I was on board with the move as well...but now it appears the Reds may have used their best sprinters at the beginning of the relay, and have only a JV player left to finish. True there is a game 5 and Latos will be throwing, but now an entire summer of fun and excellence is likely going to come down to a one game coin flip.

AtomicDumpling
10-10-2012, 11:19 AM
So its looking more and more like the Reds will be forced to throw Leake today...their #5 SP who, with the exception of one outing this year, has thrown mostly batting practice against the Giants.

Realizing that hindsight is 20/20...after Cueto's early departure in Game 1, should Dusty have gone ahead and just used LeCure/Simon/Hoover to get thru, no matter the results? That way they could have taken their chances with Arroyo in game 2 and Latos in game 3 as planned....leaving them with Bailey in game 4 and back to a rested Arroyo in game 5 if necessary.

Perception was that the Reds would be set up well if they could take at least 1 in SF...by burning Latos early sure they ended up taking 1 and 2, but now are left with question marks and guys on short rest to capture that elusive third win.

I would never punt a game. LeCure, Simon and Hoover are all good pitchers though, so using them in game 1 could very well have resulted in a win. I wouldn't call that a punting strategy.

lollipopcurve
10-10-2012, 11:20 AM
Second-guessing at its best.

kaldaniels
10-10-2012, 11:20 AM
I think Dusty should have saved Bailey's one hitter for today.

OldRightHander
10-10-2012, 11:26 AM
I wouldn't call a start with a well rested Latos a coin flip, unless there's such a thing as a three sided coin with two heads.

Dan
10-10-2012, 11:28 AM
No you never punt a playoff game. Never. Ever.

This.

oregonred
10-10-2012, 11:29 AM
Giants aren't exactly chopped liver and are a WS caliber club. The Reds should have blitzed them 3-0 with dominant Homer last night, but now we are in the series dogfight that everyone expected. Every DS is now assured of going at least four games.

Gotta scratch out at least 3-4 runs tonight off Zito. The reversion to the Hacktastic approach of innings 6-10 isn't going to cut it.

DGullett35
10-10-2012, 11:31 AM
Never give away a playoff game. Dusty did the right thing. Its amazing how some are already planning for a game 5 and doubting this team. Ive done it at times this year myself but history has showed us that this team bounces back from any adversity it faces. Why not tonight? Leake beat Cain with a complete game effort in SF earlier this year. The Giants offense is looking like us in September and in case people havent been watching were up 2 games to 1. it seems like all our starters bring their A game when the crowd is into it and we have a packed house. I predict Leake will be brilliant tonight and if he isnt at least we can hope he pitches evenly with Zito. Our bullpen is better than SF. We just need to come up with a big hit. It will probably be a 2 out hit with RISP and I have a feeling Stubbs(call me crazy but weve been drilling this guy for 2+ years. Hes due IMO) will get that hit. 3-2 Redlegs and on to the NLCS.

RANDY IN INDY
10-10-2012, 11:41 AM
Punt game 1? Redszone at its best.

oregonred
10-10-2012, 11:45 AM
Punt game 1? Redszone at its best.

Interesting question for discussion, but I think the let's win our first playoff game in 17 freaking years trumps the punt formation.

UKFlounder
10-10-2012, 11:47 AM
I just hope we see the victory formation today... (oh wait - in baseball you still have to pitch the ball and can't just take a knee. :p I do enjoy football, but this is one of the great parts of baseball)


Interesting question for discussion, but I think the let's win our first playoff game in 17 freaking years trumps the punt formation.

PuffyPig
10-10-2012, 12:22 PM
Why would you say we should have punted a game we won?

If the Reds wanted to go with Arroyo on 3 days rest they still could. They obviously choose not to.

reds44
10-10-2012, 12:24 PM
Are you seriously asking if Dusty should have punted Game 1 of a 5 game series?

Seriously?

westofyou
10-10-2012, 12:31 PM
2nd time they have been in the playoffs since 1995, 3rd time since 1990, 4th time since 1979.

And they should throw away the chance to win?

Where's my pitchfork and torch?

George Anderson
10-10-2012, 12:37 PM
After reading this and the " Talk me down from my ledge "


I must ask the question.

Is there a full moon out?

westofyou
10-10-2012, 12:38 PM
After reading this and the "jumping off the ledge thread".

I must ask the question.

Is there a full moon out?

New terrain I suppose.

Youth of Redsland listen to me.

ENJOY THIS IT'S A GAME YOU CANNOT CONTROL

GIVE IN TO THE GAME

traderumor
10-10-2012, 12:41 PM
No, the Reds should have gotten hits last night. Problem solved. But, I imagine if they could get a hit when they needed it, they'd have no losses, unless they lost on purpose.

reds44
10-10-2012, 12:44 PM
If the Reds tank game 1, at best they are up 2-1 heading into game 4. The Reds now are up 2-1 heading into game 4.

So no, they shouldn't have punted.

Superdude
10-10-2012, 12:46 PM
So we'd rather be a loss away from elimination right now just so Latos could be ready to go? This dude's got stronger nerves than me.

cumberlandreds
10-10-2012, 12:58 PM
If Dusty had decided to punt who would have been his punter? Leake? He looks like a kicker to me. :)

traderumor
10-10-2012, 01:00 PM
So we'd rather be a loss away from elimination right now just so Latos could be ready to go? This dude's got stronger nerves than me.It seems to be the best option to me. The alternatives are short rest Arroyo or Leake if a game 5. Neither of those I like when I know Cain is pitching Game 5 for them and it might be another game like game 3, as in whose bullpen blinks first.

oregonred
10-10-2012, 01:06 PM
New terrain I suppose.

Youth of Redsland listen to me.

ENJOY THIS IT'S A GAME YOU CANNOT CONTROL

GIVE IN TO THE GAME

Oh yeah, tell that to my poor remote, freshly repaired from the Bungles debacle on Sunday and in need of more duct tape after the 10 inning series of flukey events.

Joseph
10-10-2012, 01:33 PM
I wish I could say something strong enough to convey exactly how ludicrous I find this idea right now but I'm just too dumbfounded to say much of anything.

OldRightHander
10-10-2012, 01:40 PM
If Dusty had decided to punt who would have been his punter? Leake? He looks like a kicker to me. :)

Well, in a way it was a punt. The ball was downed at the 1 and the Giants have to go the length of the field with about 1:15 left.

AtomicDumpling
10-10-2012, 01:42 PM
I think people are seeing the word "punt" in the thread title and thinking that means the OP actually suggested the Reds should have intentionally lost the first game. If you read his post you will see that he never said that...

I think Price and Dusty handled the situation just fine in that game and it worked out well. But I don't think using LeCure, Simon and Hoover instead of LeCure and Latos would have automatically resulted in a loss or a "punt". The Reds likely would have won the game either way since they scored 5 runs. Latos only pitched four innings after all. If the Reds had used Simon and Hoover for those four innings instead of Latos they would not have given up 4+ runs. The Reds would have won the game either way .

redssince75
10-10-2012, 03:54 PM
I think Dusty should have saved Bailey's one hitter for today.

Yes, he should have punted last night and had Homer throw a gem today.

Or, he could have saved some of the 9 runs from Game 2 and applied them to Game 3.

Sometimes I don't know what he's thinking, either of those moves would have us in the NLCS in a flash.

Caveat Emperor
10-10-2012, 03:58 PM
I played a lot of NCAA football for the PS2 in college.

Rule #1: NEVER PUNT.

RedsManRick
10-10-2012, 05:43 PM
I played a lot of NCAA football for the PS2 in college.

Rule #1: NEVER PUNT.

And why is that? Because you only have a few possessions and punting doesn't put the other team at nearly enough of a disadvantage (or your team at an advantage in subsequent possessions) to offset your guarenteed lost possession. Same logic applies

Brutus
10-10-2012, 06:43 PM
Is this a real question?