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big boy
10-10-2012, 08:40 PM
Joey Votto is hitting like an outstanding base clogging leadoff hitter. Dusty should put him there. Two stats from Lance Mcalister:


Votto 5 for 23 (.217) with 0 HR and 1 RB in 7 postseason games in his career.

Votto has played 44 games w/ 180 plate appearances since his last HR on June 24 vs Twins. He has 0 HR and 9 RBI since June 24.

Move him back to the third spot next season. For now, your new batting order:

1. Votto
2. BP
3. Lud
4. Bruce
5. Rolen/Frazier
6. Hannigan
7. Cozart
8. Stubbs

1940757690
10-10-2012, 08:43 PM
Joey Votto is hitting like an outstanding base clogging leadoff hitter. Dusty should put him there. Two stats from Lance Mcalister:



Move him back to the third spot next season. For now, your new batting order:

1. Votto
2. BP
3. Lud
4. Bruce
5. Rolen/Frazier
6. Hannigan
7. Cozart
8. Stubbs

Now that's an interesting idea. The obvious reason why you wouldn't want Votto on leadoff duty now is speed. His issues emanate from the knee so not a big base stealing or hit-and-run threat. But, I still like the idea from the OBP perspective. Jayson Werth in DC has been very successful as leadoff (we call him "leadoff Larry") with a similar profile as a hobbled JoVo.

But, also, I'm guessing Dusty won't be reading this thread. :(

BluegrassRedleg
10-10-2012, 08:54 PM
Had a friend of mine just text me the exact same thing. Maybe not leadoff, but #2.

But you and I know that's not going to happen. Dusty won't employ logic if it means changing.

1940757690
10-10-2012, 09:19 PM
Had a friend of mine just text me the exact same thing. Maybe not leadoff, but #2.

But you and I know that's not going to happen. Dusty won't employ logic if it means changing.

I'd be happy enough tomorrow to see Hanigan back in the lineup and no DondeDondo on the mound.

1940757690
10-10-2012, 09:23 PM
Had a friend of mine just text me the exact same thing. Maybe not leadoff, but #2.

But you and I know that's not going to happen. Dusty won't employ logic if it means changing.

One other thought for you on this. I get frustrated all the time at how so many seasoned managers seem to stick with what doesn't work too long.

But, always trying to see things from their perspective, there's another side to those stories which has to do with leadership.

Sometimes--certainly not all the time--a manager sticking with someone not doing well is rewarded in big ways. Arroyo good example of that this series. Also, much of the time, we fans (however knowledgeable and impassioned) simply don't have all the info that the manager has which informs the decisions.

I'm big on measuring people on their results. Dusty is still TBD for this year. If we win tomorrow and move on, I'd be loathe to call for a new manager next year. I know many are calling for his head already. But c'mon, though he hasn't won the WS, his career and accomplishments deserve some respect and some benefit of whatever doubts, don't they?

Krawhitham
10-10-2012, 09:27 PM
Joey Votto is hitting like an outstanding base clogging leadoff hitter. Dusty should put him there. Two stats from Lance Mcalister:



Move him back to the third spot next season. For now, your new batting order:

1. Votto
2. BP
3. Lud
4. Bruce
5. Rolen/Frazier
6. Hannigan
7. Cozart
8. Stubbs

He has no wheels and will not slide feet 1st

BluegrassRedleg
10-10-2012, 09:28 PM
I've tried to give him that much. I haven't been a Dusty-basher in the past. I typically subscribe to the theory of "players make plays," but his handling of the Stubbs situation, Frazier's lack of consistent playing time and today's debacle, I'm just completely out of patience with him.

1940757690
10-10-2012, 09:35 PM
I've tried to give him that much. I haven't been a Dusty-basher in the past. I typically subscribe to the theory of "players make plays," but his handling of the Stubbs situation, Frazier's lack of consistent playing time and today's debacle, I'm just completely out of patience with him.

I hear ya. Let's wait until tomorrow and see what happens. With you on "players make plays" but also think mgmt (GMs, Mgrs) put those players in good or bad position to perform at their best. At the end of the day, it's the results that matter most. Think maybe we're strongly agreeing. :beerme:

Falcon7
10-11-2012, 10:51 AM
Votto seems to almost refuse to hit the ball to right field no matter what, if it's a 87 mph fast ball middle in, or a hanging do nothing breaking pitch. He should hit those pitches out in front of him, at least every now and then.
He is the opposite of the hitter who try's to pull everything.
I don't buy the knee issue, if it's so bad why does he not wear a support brace?
And when it comes to hitting the front leg is much more important than the back leg (bad knee), unless you are Jeff Bagwell or Brandon Phillips to a lesser degree.

In one of the last games (reg. season) he went to his right to field a grounder and had to slam on the brakes (with his left leg) pivot and race back to the bag. That's a lot harder on the knee than hitting, and showed that his knee is structurally sound.

I just think it's more of a mental thing than physical.

Biff Pocoroba
10-11-2012, 11:11 AM
Here's my vote - run out the exact same lineup that produced 14 runs in San Francisco and hastened an early exit for Cain in Game 1.