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Cedric
10-18-2012, 10:29 PM
I would be shocked beyond belief if Chapman every has another role in baseball. Frankly I've come around to that being a good thing.

mdccclxix
10-18-2012, 10:37 PM
Pineda?

Bingo. :beerme:

Tadasimha
10-18-2012, 10:47 PM
I really hope they don't mess around with Chapman. Leave him where he is now. As it stands, if the Reds have the lead after 6 or 7 innings the game is essentially over. Don't mess with that.

Chapman is the Reds' Mariano Rivera.

Without a doubt!


I would be shocked beyond belief if Chapman every has another role in baseball. Frankly I've come around to that being a good thing.

I was high on the idea of him becoming the closer last season but wasn't sure he could stay focused enough in high pressure situations. He proved he could this season and I think it would be an absolute waste to try to turn him back into a starter. His arm is truly a unique weapon when it can deliver triple digits in the late innings.

Far East
10-18-2012, 11:22 PM
What's the status of Ryan Madson?

Rojo
10-24-2012, 05:17 PM
Anyone know what happened to Chris Coughlan? At this point it looks like Miami would give him away for the proverbial bag of balls.

He's carrying a .350 lifetime OBP against RHP. A former ROY, he looks kinda like a WJ pickup. He's more of a corner but could be a good bench guy if nothing else.

mth123
10-24-2012, 09:34 PM
Anyone know what happened to Chris Coughlan? At this point it looks like Miami would give him away for the proverbial bag of balls.

He's carrying a .350 lifetime OBP against RHP. A former ROY, he looks kinda like a WJ pickup. He's more of a corner but could be a good bench guy if nothing else.

Sent to the minors this year. He's in a Stubbs like decline. He's a suspect IMO.

Since we're throwing out names, I would like to see Wilson Betemit for the Cairo role. He could spell Frazier at 3B against RHP or free Frazier to play in the OF. Betemit is a Switch Hitter who is much better hitting Left Handed against RHP. In 2012 he hit .302/.357/.502/859 in 280 PAs against RHP. For his career .281/.349/.474/.824 in 1757 PAs. He's not much of a defender. Below average at 3B, pretty rough at SS, not much to go on in the OF. Manny Machado at 3B and Markakis and Reimold coming back in the OF to push Chris Davis to DH, probably makes Betemit a guy they'd move for little. His offensive profile is just what the Dr. ordered for the Red's offense and the ability to move Frazier to the OF mix may help if Ludwick can't be retained. He's signed for $1.75 Million in 2013 and has an option for $3.2 Million for 2014. The option vests with 324 PAs or more in 2013. That's probably a reason the O's would move him for spare parts, but the kind of cheap production the Reds need with core players' costs going up.

corkedbat
10-24-2012, 10:31 PM
Sent to the minors this year. He's in a Stubbs like decline. He's a suspect IMO.

Since we're throwing out names, I would like to see Wilson Betemit for the Cairo role. He could spell Frazier at 3B against RHP or free Frazier to play in the OF. Betemit is a Switch Hitter who is much better hitting Left Handed against RHP. In 2012 he hit .302/.357/.502/859 in 280 PAs against RHP. For his career .281/.349/.474/.824 in 1757 PAs. He's not much of a defender. Below average at 3B, pretty rough at SS, not much to go on in the OF. Manny Machado at 3B and Markakis and Reimold coming back in the OF to push Chris Davis to DH, probably makes Betemit a guy they'd move for little. His offensive profile is just what the Dr. ordered for the Red's offense and the ability to move Frazier to the OF mix may help if Ludwick can't be retained. He's signed for $1.75 Million in 2013 and has an option for $3.2 Million for 2014. The option vests with 324 PAs or more in 2013. That's probably a reason the O's would move him for spare parts, but the kind of cheap production the Reds need with core players' costs going up.

corkedbat
10-24-2012, 10:35 PM
I said in another thread (or possibly this one - I lose track), I'd like to see them take a shot at Kelly Johnson to BU 2nd, 3rd and LF. Frazier at 3B, Ludwick in LF and Johnson backing both would hunt.

PuffyPig
10-25-2012, 06:42 AM
Since we're throwing out names, I would like to see Wilson Betemit for the Cairo role. He could spell Frazier at 3B against RHP or free Frazier to play in the OF. Betemit is a Switch Hitter who is much better hitting Left Handed against RHP. In 2012 he hit .302/.357/.502/859 in 280 PAs against RHP. For his career .281/.349/.474/.824 in 1757 PAs. He's not much of a defender. Below average at 3B, pretty rough at SS, not much to go on in the OF. Manny Machado at 3B and Markakis and Reimold coming back in the OF to push Chris Davis to DH, probably makes Betemit a guy they'd move for little. His offensive profile is just what the Dr. ordered for the Red's offense and the ability to move Frazier to the OF mix may help if Ludwick can't be retained. He's signed for $1.75 Million in 2013 and has an option for $3.2 Million for 2014. The option vests with 324 PAs or more in 2013. That's probably a reason the O's would move him for spare parts, but the kind of cheap production the Reds need with core players' costs going up.

An excellent target and fit for the Reds.

Plus Plus
10-30-2012, 12:28 AM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/10/dodgers-open-to-trading-ethier.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook


The Dodgers made headlines this season when they signed Andre Ethier to a five-year, $85MM extension. ESPN's Buster Olney reports that now, just months later, the team is open to the concept of trading their slugging right fielder (Twitter link).

Trading a player recently signed to such a large contract would be virtually unprecedented, though it would make previous reports that the team could retain Shane Victorino more logical.

The 30-year-old Ethier hit .284/.351/.460 with 20 home runs in 2012. Despite that production, there would be many deterrents for teams that show interest. Ethier struggled mightily against left-handed pitching, triple-slashing just .222/.276/.330 against southpaws. He'll be 31 years old on April 10 next season, and he will be 35 years of age when his $85MM extension expires. Beyond that, defensive metrics such as UZR and the Fielding Bible have never been fans of his glovework (though he has one Gold Glove under his belt).

Ethier could be a nice option for LF for the Reds if Ludwick walks and the Dodgers eat part of the money.

What would it take to get it done, and would you?

Plus Plus
10-30-2012, 12:33 AM
Furthermore, the Angels are rumored to be looking to trade one or both of Dan Haren and Ervin Santana. Santana doesn't do much for me, but Haren could be nice, assuming his performance this season wasn't due to anything that will be a lasting issue.

Vottomatic
10-30-2012, 11:13 AM
Man, this Reds offseason has the Reds in the drivers seat for possible some interesting moves.

HotCorner
10-31-2012, 10:36 AM
David Wright anyone? :D

If this were to happen, I would not be able to contain my excitement.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1390805-mlb-trade-rumors-could-david-wright-pack-his-bags-for-cincinnati

Chip R
10-31-2012, 10:52 AM
David Wright anyone? :D

If this were to happen, I would not be able to contain my excitement.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1390805-mlb-trade-rumors-could-david-wright-pack-his-bags-for-cincinnati

Well, the Mets picked up his option for 2013.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/8574625/david-wright-new-york-mets-16-million-contract-option-exercised

RedsManRick
10-31-2012, 11:20 AM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/10/dodgers-open-to-trading-ethier.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook



Ethier could be a nice option for LF for the Reds if Ludwick walks and the Dodgers eat part of the money.

What would it take to get it done, and would you?

Pass. He's not a bad player, but he's especially good either. And that contract all but guarantees him playing time. Having a position like LF locked up by a mediocre player represents a large opportunity cost to recognize upside through an unanticipated opportunity. And that's to say nothing of the real likelihood of decline.

We're looking a 4 years and $71MM for a 3 win LF at the tail end of his peak. Cut that $71MM down to $40MM and you're still looking a guy who would be the 4th highest paid player on the team behind Votto, Arroyo and BP.

bucksfan2
10-31-2012, 11:28 AM
If they can't resign Ludwick, how about Youkilis at 3b and Frazier in LF?

It doesn't answer the CF problem but its a start.

Tom Servo
10-31-2012, 08:17 PM
I like Ethier, but he can't hit lefties. At all.

Plus Plus
10-31-2012, 10:00 PM
I like Ethier, but he can't hit lefties. At all.

I agree with you and RMR, but...

One could argue that is exactly the guy the Reds need- a guy who smashes RHP.

I bet both the Reds and Dodgers know that he sucks eggs against lefties.

Maybe he could be had for a haul similar to that which was traded for Ervin Santana, and maybe the Dodgers pay part of it... or that's the only way that I see it happening, rather.

M2
10-31-2012, 11:05 PM
Pass. He's not a bad player, but he's especially good either.

What exactly does a guy have to do for you not to take a dump on him?

I wouldn't go after Wright because Frazier is inexpensive and good (though only three years younger than Wright), but there's a dearth of 3Bs out there. Yet David Wright was one of the best players in baseball last season. If he's not especially good, then almost no one is.

Patrick Bateman
10-31-2012, 11:07 PM
What exactly does a guy have to do for you not to take a dump on him?

I wouldn't go after Wright because Frazier is inexpensive and good (though only three years younger than Wright), but there's a dearth of 3Bs out there. Yet David Wright was one of the best players in baseball last season. If he's not especially good, then almost no one is.

He was referring to Ethier.

I think everyone likes Wright in a vacuum.

M2
10-31-2012, 11:08 PM
He was referring to Ethier.

I think everyone likes Wright in a vacuum.

My bad. Apologies for the misread RMR.

LoganBuck
11-01-2012, 07:57 AM
I posted this in another thread, but is Melky Cabrera the answer for a short term CF option?

CySeymour
11-01-2012, 09:34 AM
I posted this in another thread, but is Melky Cabrera the answer for a short term CF option?

I doubt BCast would want to take the publicity hit by signing Melky.

mdccclxix
11-01-2012, 09:56 AM
The Reds and Ryan Ludwick continue to talk after the outfielder declined his half of a mutual option, reports John Fay of The Cincinnati Enquirer (on Twitter). GM Walt Jocketty said the club is unlikely to offer more than two years, however.
Jocketty also told Fay that the Reds have interest in retaining free agents Ryan Madson, Jonathan Broxton, and Dioner Navarro (Twitter link). "I don't know if we'll sign them all," added Jocketty.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#sFQPs5PoLjsOyofj.99


Just saw this.

Superdude
11-01-2012, 10:09 AM
Just saw this.

Two years for Ludwick and an incentive, guilt driven deal with Madson sounds okay to me.

_Sir_Charles_
11-01-2012, 03:52 PM
If they sign Madson, I say we start the Chapman conversion yesterday. If Madson isn't ready, we've still got Marshall (and Masset coming back too).

corkedbat
11-01-2012, 04:41 PM
If they sign Madson, I say we start the Chapman conversion yesterday. If Madson isn't ready, we've still got Marshall (and Masset coming back too).

Rather have Hoover closing than Massett. Nick's fine in the 7th though.

_Sir_Charles_
11-01-2012, 06:53 PM
Rather have Hoover closing than Massett. Nick's fine in the 7th though.

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting Masset closing. Just pointing out that he's coming back too, thus filling another hole in the pen if Chapman leaves it. I'd lean towards Marshall rather than Hoover.

Tom Servo
11-01-2012, 08:28 PM
I wouldn't count on Masset being part of the plans at all. It would just be a bonus if he were.

M2
11-01-2012, 11:44 PM
I'd like to see some upper minors pitcher acquisitions. I'm not talking about Grade A studs, but a couple of arms to add depth. Guys like Adam Wilk (Tigers), Brandon Workman (Red Sox) and J.R. Graham (Braves) would be nice pickups.

SidneySlicker
11-03-2012, 11:02 AM
Trade for Shin Soo Choo and sign him to a 3-4 year extension.

Choo goes to RF and Jay Bruce would be moved to CF for the season or until
Billy Hamilton is ready. Once BHam is ready Bruce goes back to right and Choo goes to LF.

Todd Frazier get the everday play at 3rd.

Assuming Ryan Ludwick won't sign a 1 year deal, I'd give Xavier Paul a chance to win the left field job out spring training. It was a small sample size, but I really like what he did with the Reds in 2012. Heisey would be the fourth outfielder and would get bumped to a bench role after Hamilton's promotion. Heisey could very well be traded in my mind.

I'm all for trying to keep Ryan Madsen and I'm all for keeping Chapman in the pen as the dominant closer of the future for this team. With Chapman I just see him converting to a starting pitcher. Spending the time trying to make him that, and losing what he would add to the bullpen in that time would be a mistake in my opinion. I really wouldn't mess to much with the pen beyond trying to retain Madsen.

I wouldn't mess with the starting rotation. In 2012 they gave us the best season we've seen from a SR in a long, long time. They are still developing and trending upward. The only way I see a change in the rotation is if one of them are involved in a trade of some sort.

Leadoff
1. Choo RF (Until Hamilton's ready)
2. BP 2nd
3. Votto 1st
4. Bruce CF
5. Frazier 3rd
6. Paul LF
7. Cozart SS
8. Hany

If/When Hamilton is ready
1. Hamilton CF
2. Choo LF
3. BP 2nd
4. Votto 1st
5. Bruce LF
6. Frazier 3rd
7. Cozart SS
8. Hanny C

Plus Plus
11-03-2012, 06:44 PM
Trade for Shin Soo Choo and sign him to a 3-4 year extension.

Choo goes to RF and Jay Bruce would be moved to CF for the season or until
Billy Hamilton is ready. Once BHam is ready Bruce goes back to right and Choo goes to LF.

Todd Frazier get the everday play at 3rd.

Assuming Ryan Ludwick won't sign a 1 year deal, I'd give Xavier Paul a chance to win the left field job out spring training. It was a small sample size, but I really like what he did with the Reds in 2012. Heisey would be the fourth outfielder and would get bumped to a bench role after Hamilton's promotion. Heisey could very well be traded in my mind.

I'm all for trying to keep Ryan Madsen and I'm all for keeping Chapman in the pen as the dominant closer of the future for this team. With Chapman I just see him converting to a starting pitcher. Spending the time trying to make him that, and losing what he would add to the bullpen in that time would be a mistake in my opinion. I really wouldn't mess to much with the pen beyond trying to retain Madsen.

I wouldn't mess with the starting rotation. In 2012 they gave us the best season we've seen from a SR in a long, long time. They are still developing and trending upward. The only way I see a change in the rotation is if one of them are involved in a trade of some sort.

Leadoff
1. Choo RF (Until Hamilton's ready)
2. BP 2nd
3. Votto 1st
4. Bruce CF
5. Frazier 3rd
6. Paul LF
7. Cozart SS
8. Hany

If/When Hamilton is ready
1. Hamilton CF
2. Choo LF
3. BP 2nd
4. Votto 1st
5. Bruce LF
6. Frazier 3rd
7. Cozart SS
8. Hanny C

To beat the same drum yet again...

If the Reds saw Bruce as still being a CF, then why was a horrible middle infielder playing CF in 2012 instead of Bruce when substitutions were needed? Why did the Reds insist on seeing Stubbs in CF instead of Bruce, when Paul was hitting well?

Bruce will play CF on the same day that Phillips plays SS for the Reds.

westofyou
11-03-2012, 07:34 PM
To beat the same drum yet again...

If the Reds saw Bruce as still being a CF, then why was a horrible middle infielder playing CF in 2012 instead of Bruce when substitutions were needed? Why did the Reds insist on seeing Stubbs in CF instead of Bruce, when Paul was hitting well?

Bruce will play CF on the same day that Phillips plays SS for the Reds.

Also that day the reds will restructure WMPs contract

Vottomatic
11-03-2012, 09:20 PM
To beat the same drum yet again...

If the Reds saw Bruce as still being a CF, then why was a horrible middle infielder playing CF in 2012 instead of Bruce when substitutions were needed? Why did the Reds insist on seeing Stubbs in CF instead of Bruce, when Paul was hitting well?

Bruce will play CF on the same day that Phillips plays SS for the Reds.

I disagree. It's simply because Dusty is manager that will we not see Bruce in CF.

Bruce is more qualified to play CF than Valdez or even probably Heisey. Bruce played most of his minor league career in CF with rarely a defensive miscue.

westofyou
11-03-2012, 09:32 PM
I disagree. It's simply because Dusty is manager that will we not see Bruce in CF.

Bruce is more qualified to play CF than Valdez or even probably Heisey. Bruce played most of his minor league career in CF with rarely a defensive miscue.

71% of those ML starts in CF came before Bruce was 21 years old.

But please continue to say it's all Dusty's doing, it's a funny meme.

Plus Plus
11-04-2012, 12:28 AM
I disagree. It's simply because Dusty is manager that will we not see Bruce in CF.

Bruce is more qualified to play CF than Valdez or even probably Heisey. Bruce played most of his minor league career in CF with rarely a defensive miscue.

I just don't understand how a conclusion can be arrived at where a manager who has played the game decided that a former CF is a worse option than a .400 OPS middle infielder to play CF unless the former CF can't play there any more. It's a conspiracy theory that I can't even begin to understand; even if Dusty was so set into Bruce being RF now, why would he deliberately hurt the team to keep him in RF instead of moving him to CF if Bruce is a better option than Valdez or even Heisey?

Bruce is older, bigger, and slower than he was when he was a teenager. It isn't a bad thing- Bruce is a great player. However, it means that he might not be in center because he can't play there, rather than that he isn't in center because Dusty has it out for him.

Raisor
11-04-2012, 07:26 AM
I just don't get the thinking that it's not even worth trying to put Bruce in center.

Seems like a perfectly safe thing to do in Spring Training.

westofyou
11-04-2012, 07:34 AM
I just don't get the thinking that it's not even worth trying to put Bruce in center.

Seems like a perfectly safe thing to do in Spring Training.

I just don't get the assumption that the Reds are keeping a player from increasing his worth

If Bruce could play CF a higher level it would increase his worth to the team, I'm certain even the morons who run the team can figure that out.

Maybe he can't? And THEY already know that!

Tony Cloninger
11-04-2012, 09:39 AM
How much do you think INF Mike Aviles would have been worth trading for?

Cleveland got him along with Yan Gomes for pitcher Esmil Rogers from Toronto.

Plus Plus
11-04-2012, 09:54 AM
I just don't get the thinking that it's not even worth trying to put Bruce in center.

Seems like a perfectly safe thing to do in Spring Training.

While they are at it they can also try Phillips at SS, Arredondo at SS, and Votto at C.

Raisor
11-04-2012, 06:34 PM
While they are at it they can also try Phillips at SS, Arredondo at SS, and Votto at C.



http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/2/24/I_see_what_you_did_there_super.jpg

PuffyPig
11-04-2012, 07:30 PM
I just don't get the thinking that it's not even worth trying to put Bruce in center.

Seems like a perfectly safe thing to do in Spring Training.

They watch Bruce in the OF every single day for many years.

They don`t need spring training to tell them what he can (or can`t) do.

Vottomatic
11-04-2012, 09:58 PM
......and the CFer and SS always bat 1st and 2nd, and speed is the most important thing near the top of the lineup even if it strikes out 200 times and hits .210, atleast according to the brilliant Dusty Baker.

Yeah, Dusty does everything just perfectly.

And Bruce is washed up as a CFer. The brilliant Dusty Baker knows this.

Sarcasm, obviously.

Bruce played the majority of his minor league time in CF and came up as a CFer. He never did anything in the minors or majors that showed he was finished as a CFer. He's a gold glove caliber RFer and it's not like he's 35 years old, broken down, and washed up as a fielder. Yet, trading for an old Dejesus, or Choo and putting them in CF makes sense to some. I'd rather have Bruce in CF over many of the other choices.

But if we had a guy who currently is playing CF on this team, like Span or Fowler, they yes the choice is easy........keep Bruce in RF.