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View Full Version : The Truth (another one of those trendy threads right now)



cincyforever
10-11-2012, 09:12 PM
Here is what happened, and please take time to think about what I am going to say, because I am not looking up any numbers at all.

This team is a good baseball team. Not great, but good. We had 5 guys pitch out of their minds all season long. We had the best bullpen in the league.

We sweep the Cardinals in July. On top of the baseball world. Now, as fans, we expect even more, because we now know what it's like to sweep the Cardinals!

Joey Votto goes down and in comes Todd Frazier and company, winning 10+ in a row and stuff. Then they lose one game against SD (I believe) and come back to win 4 or 5 more in a row. We're still on top of the baseball world.

FFWD to September. I remember saying in the first week of September that this team was "almost done." They were flat 95% of the time. They seemed so crazily unmotivated. When the opposition would score, we'd come back and go 1-2-3 every stinking time... going down with a whimper, walking to the bench with tucked tails. This is the month when things went awry and very quickly.

By the time October rolls around, we're already out. But all of a sudden they win 5-2 and 9-0.. so now were hopeful. Folks, those two games were a tease. Those two games should have never happened. This team wasn't hungry. Drew Stubbs, still an automatic out, is still starting. Rolen is still starting instead of Frazier. Cozart is still hitting .250. Votto is still struggling to get runners home. Ludwick can't hit HR's every at bat. Phillips can't win by himself. Bruce is still hit or miss. Baker is still sending out Cairo instead of Paul or Heisey.

This team was highly unmotivated. There was no urgency whatsoever during this 3 game homestand until Buster Posey choked us out in the 5th inning. It took that much for our boys to wake up and play some baseball.

The truth is we didn't deserve to win this series, and the Giants deserved every bit of it. The Reds have been burnt toast since early September, and I've been saying it since early September.

I hate to be right in this case.

1940757690
10-11-2012, 09:16 PM
Hmmm. Read it carefully but not sure I agree about the unmotivated stuff. Lack of urgency? Maybe but those words make me think of Boston, where clearly that has been true for two years now. And we're not like them.

If you are right, then Dusty should go since he's the leader. And it's the leader's job to motivate and inspire. But I'm not at all sure you are.

cincyforever
10-11-2012, 09:21 PM
Hmmm. Read it carefully but not sure I agree about the unmotivated stuff. Lack of urgency? Maybe but those words make me think of Boston, where clearly that has been true for two years now. And we're not like them.

If you are right, then Dusty should go since he's the leader. And it's the leader's job to motivate and inspire. But I'm not at all sure you are.
So you think they were motivated in September? Or at any point in the last 3 games pre-Posey homerun? Personally, I don't. I don't think they had any motivation; they looked flat. out. dead.

I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong.. just stating my observations :)

1940757690
10-11-2012, 10:24 PM
So you think they were motivated in September? Or at any point in the last 3 games pre-Posey homerun? Personally, I don't. I don't think they had any motivation; they looked flat. out. dead.

I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong.. just stating my observations :)

I understand. No problem at all. Just didn't perceive that the same way. To me, it's about the most serious accusation one can make to charge that someone or a team doesn't care...aren't trying. It may be true as I think was shown in Boston pretty definitively. But with the Reds, that hadn't really occurred to me. Something I'll think about though. Thanks for your post.

redram
10-13-2012, 12:15 AM
Here is what happened, and please take time to think about what I am going to say, because I am not looking up any numbers at all.

This team is a good baseball team. Not great, but good. We had 5 guys pitch out of their minds all season long. We had the best bullpen in the league.

We sweep the Cardinals in July. On top of the baseball world. Now, as fans, we expect even more, because we now know what it's like to sweep the Cardinals!

Joey Votto goes down and in comes Todd Frazier and company, winning 10+ in a row and stuff. Then they lose one game against SD (I believe) and come back to win 4 or 5 more in a row. We're still on top of the baseball world.

FFWD to September. I remember saying in the first week of September that this team was "almost done." They were flat 95% of the time. They seemed so crazily unmotivated. When the opposition would score, we'd come back and go 1-2-3 every stinking time... going down with a whimper, walking to the bench with tucked tails. This is the month when things went awry and very quickly.

By the time October rolls around, we're already out. But all of a sudden they win 5-2 and 9-0.. so now were hopeful. Folks, those two games were a tease. Those two games should have never happened. This team wasn't hungry. Drew Stubbs, still an automatic out, is still starting. Rolen is still starting instead of Frazier. Cozart is still hitting .250. Votto is still struggling to get runners home. Ludwick can't hit HR's every at bat. Phillips can't win by himself. Bruce is still hit or miss. Baker is still sending out Cairo instead of Paul or Heisey.

This team was highly unmotivated. There was no urgency whatsoever during this 3 game homestand until Buster Posey choked us out in the 5th inning. It took that much for our boys to wake up and play some baseball.

The truth is we didn't deserve to win this series, and the Giants deserved every bit of it. The Reds have been burnt toast since early September, and I've been saying it since early September.

I hate to be right in this case.


I agree one million percent. Once this team got the huge lead they relaxed and did not play with the same sense of urgency they played with just after the all star game. And face it, If The Cards have Carpenter all year and Garcia had not gone down who knows how this season would have turned out division wise. FFWD to the SF series. The win the first two playing to not Hit HR's with every swing and looked very focused while doing so. IMO if game two had been closer who knows how their attitudes would have been coming home BUT the blowout made them think THIS SERIES IS OVER. They come home and you could see it from the start. They played like The Giants were just going to lay down and hand them the series. They swung at every pitch trying to hit it 100 miles and when they lost game 3 they were done. We all knew Leake would Bomb and we all knew that Matt Cain would be Matt Cain in game 5. Baker managed like always as well with NO SENSE OF URGENCY failing to pull pitchers that were done, pulling Bailey when he was NOT Done and playing Stubbs again and again and again. The Reds were outplayed, out hustled and out managed and the Giants wanted it more so they took it. As I type this I am watching The Cards try and come back for 6-0 and have the bases loaded in the 9th with 2 outs, who wants to bet they get the hit to tie or go ahead and win this series while our Reds get to watch on TV yet again. And there you go tie game who wants to bet they won't win??????

RedsFanInMD
10-13-2012, 08:12 AM
I hate to say it, but in a way the return of Votto actually HURT the team. When he was out, the players took it as a challenge -- and practically every game someone stepped up -- even Drew Stubbs in a number of instances. Then Joey came back and was never close to 100%. His power was gone, which he admitted as much after the season came to an end. Meanwhile, the rest of the team... seemed like they were looking around for someone else to come through.

I also think after the 2-0 lead in the series, the Reds became complacent. You could almost sense the "well, if we don't win today we still have tomorrow" tone. Meanwhile, the fist signs of trouble (even in the 1st inning) -- and the Giants had somebody up in the bullpen. Yet, Dusty allowed Mike Leake to go way too long in Game 4 (wouldn't have mattered in this particular game, as Arredondo was terrible too.) And in game 5 when Latos lost it, Dusty did nothing until the team was down 6-0. And, this was a game when there was no tomorrow.

It may be overly subjective to suggest that Dusty was out-managed in this series, which I think he clearly was. Still, the Reds lost this series for all of the following reasons:

1. The Reds were incapable of getting those clutch 2-out hits
2. The Reds were down their Ace pitcher
3. Joey Votto was more injured than we thought
4. The Giants came through in clutch situations
5. Matt Latos had a 5th inning melt-down

Yet, if Brandon Phillips doesn't make that stupid out at 3rd base in Game 3, the Reds probably sweep the Giants.

Mastodon
10-14-2012, 05:41 PM
As critical as I have been of Dusty after the way this season ended, I could never be convinced he doesn't care. It's almost as if the guy cares a little too much about his players self confidence he doesn't want to pull them until BAM too late such as Latos in game 5. I think he wants to win, he cares a heck of a lot about the guys he manages. I don't think a manager who doesn't care would be that way.

RiverRat13
10-14-2012, 05:43 PM
I might have bought the flat argument had they not won the first two games of the series.