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View Full Version : Do Reds Fans actually deserve a winning team?



bilbobaggins
10-13-2012, 06:44 PM
No. Plain and simple. No.

Our game attendance sucks. We were 15th out of the 30 teams this year. With a team with so much history behind it, you would think Great American Ball Park would be packed all the time.
So we go through most of the season rarely packing the stadium and then, BAM! Reds are in the playoffs. People start coming out of their holes that probably never went to a game all season, besides Opening Day, to jump on the bandwagon. Then the Reds come home from San Francisco for the playoffs and are like, "WTF, we have fans?"

It's impressive how other fans in MLB packed their stadiums for 2012.

1)Boston - 37,567 AVG
Fenway max capacity: 37,493 (night); 37,065 (day)
Attendance was 101.4%

2)Philadelphia - 44,021 AVG
Citizens Bank max capacity: 43,647
Attendance was 100.8%

3)San Francisco - 41,695 AVG
AT&T max capacity: 41,915
Attendance was 99.5%

4)St. Louis - 40,272 AVG
Busch Stadium max capacity: 43,975
Attendance was 91.6%

5)Detroit - 37,383 AVG
Comerica Park max capacity: 41,255
Attendance was 90.6%

6)NY Yankees - 43,733 AVG
Yankee Stadium max capacity: 50,291
Attendance was 87.0%

9)Chicago Cubs - 35,589 AVG
Wrigley Field max capacity: 41,159
Attendance was 86.5%

15)Cincinnati - 28,978
Great American Ball Park max capacity - 42,319
Attendance was 68.5%

What do most of these teams have in common? Playoffs and World Series

I know attendance of a game doesnt mean anything really to a team winning or losing, but we suck as fans. Maybe it stems from all the let downs of Cincinnati sports teams year after year. I just wanted to point out that the Reds aren't the only ones who blew it this season. It's going to be a long winter watching the Bungholes...Go Reds.



http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=mlb/teams/003/attendance.aspx?team=003


http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance/_/sort/homePct

birdsonthebat
10-13-2012, 06:56 PM
No

MrRedLegger
10-13-2012, 07:27 PM
Those are also the most populated cities or cities with the largest population density. Makes sense more people can attend the games there. Compare cincinnati's numbers now to their past numbers. This was a monumental season.

Attendance from 2012 going back:

2,347,251
2,213,498
2,060,551
1,757,919

Reds fans came out when it mattered. Weekend games had record attendance rates. This city has plenty of people who love and support the team but the pool isn't big enough to bring 40,000+ people out every single night. You can blame high rates of employment for that.

Reds fans deserve a winning team, that's a silly question. We're all bitter, my world is down after what happened this week but I am so proud to be a supporter of this team especially right now.

birdsonthebat
10-13-2012, 07:37 PM
Those are also the most populated cities or cities with the largest population density. Makes sense more people can attend the games there.

St.Louis is not a very populated city.

Joseph Hanna
10-13-2012, 07:48 PM
Yea I mean..strictly attendance? Having lived in both New York City and Los Angeles and depending on who's "count" you believe both communities are skating the 13/14 million population mark. If you live in a city that boasts 13 million people it doesn't take long to realize a whole lotta things but putting 35 thousand butts in the park per night doesn't seem like much. They could probably "wave" that many car's in on any given block

St. Louis and Milwaukee are more comparative markets but even so St. Louis officially almost twice the population of Cincinnati and Milwaukee MUCH bigger (relatively speaking). Chicago's pushin' 3.5 million, Philadelphia probably pretty close, San Francisco similar to Milwaukee (maybe 3 times the population of Cincy).

I miss Dodger baseball but the little, bitty community of Cincinnati has a whole bunch of positives goin' for it and the folks that own the Reds do it absolutely right. Seems to me with a paltry 265 thousand person population you guys keep up with the big boys exceedingly well.

Yadi for Mayor
10-13-2012, 08:28 PM
Those are also the most populated cities or cities with the largest population density. Makes sense more people can attend the games there. Compare cincinnati's numbers now to their past numbers. This was a monumental season.

Attendance from 2012 going back:

2,347,251
2,213,498
2,060,551
1,757,919

Reds fans came out when it mattered. Weekend games had record attendance rates. This city has plenty of people who love and support the team but the pool isn't big enough to bring 40,000+ people out every single night. You can blame high rates of employment for that.

Reds fans deserve a winning team, that's a silly question. We're all bitter, my world is down after what happened this week but I am so proud to be a supporter of this team especially right now.


St Louis is only slightly bigger than Cincinatti. Yet Cards fans don't fail to support their team.

Ironman92
10-13-2012, 08:47 PM
Yeah, my 85 year old grandmother who watches every game from 2 hours away and can't attend games doesn't deserve a winner.

Everyone deserves a winner equally....except for the ritziest who just go for stature or whatever....from the 3rd-7th innings

birdsonthebat
10-13-2012, 08:49 PM
What exactly is a Red?

Mastodon
10-13-2012, 09:12 PM
Not exactly fair to compare Cincinnati to NYC, Boston, and Philly which can support multiple teams because of their population size. Also consider what's near Cincinnati, go about 4 hours in any direction from here and you'll find another (most cases multiple) pro organization to dilute an already much smaller pool of potential fans. Now if the Reds can put together a couple consistent runs like those huge payroll teams they'll scoop up a lot of the bandwagon fans some of those teams have.

HometownHero
10-13-2012, 09:23 PM
St.Louis is not a very populated city.


St Louis is only slightly bigger than Cincinatti. Yet Cards fans don't fail to support their team.

But they have the largest fan base of any team in the majors due to so many people growing up with KMOX as such a powerful station, as more time goes on those people will die out and their kids, kids are going to connect with something else due to TV and internet getting bigger and bigger.

Couple that with the end of the Old Park closing and the new park opening driving attendance, and then 2 WS and a all-star game on top of that the Cards are going to see a hit coming in attendance soon. They have to keep winning titles because the newness of the park and gimmicks have wore off, they broke the low side attendance record several times this year.

Within 5 years they are going to be outside the Top-10 and when they happens payroll will fade.

Tuff Nut
10-13-2012, 09:24 PM
St Louis is only slightly bigger than Cincinatti. Yet Cards fans don't fail to support their team.
I'd argue StL's fanbase is MUCH larger......They have a 5 state area,within 3 hours, and it is littered with Cardinal fans............I know.......I live in the middle of all this bird poop.

MrRedLegger
10-13-2012, 10:13 PM
Any more north than Dayton OH theyre all Indians fans. Go east into pennsylvania or West Virginia and theyre nats/braves/mets/yankees/sox fans. Any more south than Lexington it's nothing but St. Louis and Atlanta fans. Indiana and beyond theyre for the Cards. What tuff nut said, st louis has an area bigger than any other market to attract a fan base. Reds fans, a Geographically bound fan market and although not as large as the rest, are as dedicated as they come. Minus the white trash cardinal tattoos.

The Reds don't have a nationally acclaimed fan base for the same reasons "call me maybe" is blowing up everyone's iTunes.

May I remind you all that giants and cards fans are coming to this site to say what's on their mind. Not the other way.

mikdavrut
10-13-2012, 10:26 PM
Not quite Mr.RedLegger....me and PLENTY of people south of Lexington are RABID Reds fans. Don't EVEN try to say otherwise. Personally, I'm in Somerset (Pulaski County) and on Pulaski Co. day there's ALWAYS loads of people that make the trek up to GABP.

But yeah, there's a ton of Reds talk on the local radio shows here in Somerset, etc. etc.

I'll say this....what you're saying *might* have been a WEE BIT closer to being correct in the 80's and early 90's (when TBS broadcast the Braves games)....but since they have dropped carrying the Braves (really even before when most everyone around started getting all of the Reds broadcasts), this is pretty hardcore Reds country.

Even back in the mid 80's when I was still pre-teen age, I remember nearly all of the baseball fans around these parts being hardcore Reds fans.

Tuff Nut
10-13-2012, 10:36 PM
Not quite Mr.RedLegger....me and PLENTY of people south of Lexington are RABID Reds fans. Don't EVEN try to say otherwise. Personally, I'm in Somerset (Pulaski County) and on Pulaski Co. day there's ALWAYS loads of people that make the trek up to GABP.

But yeah, there's a ton of Reds talk on the local radio shows here in Somerset, etc. etc.

I'll say this....what you're saying *might* have been a WEE BIT closer to being correct in the 80's and early 90's (when TBS broadcast the Braves games)....but since they have dropped carrying the Braves (really even before when most everyone around started getting all of the Reds broadcasts), this is pretty hardcore Reds country.

Even back in the mid 80's when I was still pre-teen age, I remember nearly all of the baseball fans around these parts being hardcore Reds fans. Reguardless, it still doesn't match the 5 state area the deadbirds have. Then you could add in Iowa, and give them a 6 state regional fanbase.......I'd say it rivals the large metro cities. Cincy's.....not so much. Much smaller area. Not a knock on our rabid devotion, to the Reds.......There is just more of 'them'.

foxfire123
10-13-2012, 10:37 PM
Why don't we deserve a winning team? I would be going to a lot more Reds games if I weren't stuck here in Hell, Missouri. and I sure as heck won't go to an opposing team's ball park to see them--not putting attendance on their record for one, and don't really care for the attitude of local fans--having beer dumped on me and ignorant comments are not my idea of a fun time.

But I do pay for the DirecTV MLB package, which the team gets a cut of, I buy apparel and support the Reds in as many ways possible. I've followed them for nearly 20 years through horrible teams, decent teams, and the potential great team we now have.

I deserve a winner.

MrRedLegger
10-13-2012, 10:42 PM
I wasn't calling out anyone or any group in particular, you're missing my point. I'm thrilled there are Reds fans in southern KY. My point was that the market is sandwiched from all directions and the border is working its way inward

birdsonthebat
10-13-2012, 10:46 PM
What they really need is an identity.

Really, what is a Red?

Ironman92
10-13-2012, 10:51 PM
What they really need is an identity.

Really, what is a Red?

I wish by brick ranch house had a carpeted basement like the one you live in.

Go upstairs and tell your parents good night.

WDE
10-13-2012, 11:18 PM
If the Reds actually did anything from 2000-2009, then maybe those numbers would be different. Big attendence comes with many years of consistent winning.

Tuff Nut
10-13-2012, 11:37 PM
If the Reds actually did anything from 2000-2009, then maybe those numbers would be different. Big attendence comes with many years of consistent winning. Yes and no.....The arguement is that the Cards have more fans per capita.....Like RedLegger was explaining, the Reds have many more fanbases that cross their path, say within a decent days drive, (just so you can make a game and get home same day,)than do the Cards, whom are stuck in the middle of nowhere. Their fanbase covers the midwest, sans Chicago, and the mid-south, sans Atlanta. The Reds cannot compete. I've been a Reds fan for over 40 years, but I live much closer to StL. Been to more Cards games than Reds games, But I don't root for them, like I do the Reds.

Redsfansince72
10-13-2012, 11:38 PM
When the Reds get to the next round and even attempt to win a World Series, Attendance wont be a issue. Cant tell me The Cardinals would have 3 million fans a year if they hadnt won anything in 20 years!!! Their ownership at each deadline goes and gets the pieces needed to win.. till the Reds show that each year and continue to build a true winning formula and do what the Cardinals do,and actually win a World Series the attendance wont hit 3 million. Just my opinion. Look at the Cubs this year, I never seen a so empty Wrigley Field.

ProfessorTofty
10-13-2012, 11:40 PM
Come to Dayton and help support the Dayton Dragons! Cincinnati Reds A league farm team, sells out every season. Holds the professional sports record for consecutive sellouts since last year.

(P.S.: Though each is a sellout, that usually doesn't mean the stadium is completely packed. There's a lawn area with cheap seats that you can usually still get same day, and of course, there will be those who don't show up. Season ticket renewal rate is about 95%. It's amazing.)

MrRedLegger
10-13-2012, 11:44 PM
For what it's worth, I'm in Nashville for the night and the whole bar erupted when the Yankees tied.

#ThisIsRedsCountry

1940757690
10-14-2012, 12:32 AM
No. Plain and simple. No.

Our game attendance sucks. We were 15th out of the 30 teams this year. With a team with so much history behind it, you would think Great American Ball Park would be packed all the time.
So we go through most of the season rarely packing the stadium and then, BAM! Reds are in the playoffs. People start coming out of their holes that probably never went to a game all season, besides Opening Day, to jump on the bandwagon. Then the Reds come home from San Francisco for the playoffs and are like, "WTF, we have fans?"

It's impressive how other fans in MLB packed their stadiums for 2012.

1)Boston - 37,567 AVG
Fenway max capacity: 37,493 (night); 37,065 (day)
Attendance was 101.4%

2)Philadelphia - 44,021 AVG
Citizens Bank max capacity: 43,647
Attendance was 100.8%

3)San Francisco - 41,695 AVG
AT&T max capacity: 41,915
Attendance was 99.5%

4)St. Louis - 40,272 AVG
Busch Stadium max capacity: 43,975
Attendance was 91.6%

5)Detroit - 37,383 AVG
Comerica Park max capacity: 41,255
Attendance was 90.6%

6)NY Yankees - 43,733 AVG
Yankee Stadium max capacity: 50,291
Attendance was 87.0%

9)Chicago Cubs - 35,589 AVG
Wrigley Field max capacity: 41,159
Attendance was 86.5%

15)Cincinnati - 28,978
Great American Ball Park max capacity - 42,319
Attendance was 68.5%

What do most of these teams have in common? Playoffs and World Series

I know attendance of a game doesnt mean anything really to a team winning or losing, but we suck as fans. Maybe it stems from all the let downs of Cincinnati sports teams year after year. I just wanted to point out that the Reds aren't the only ones who blew it this season. It's going to be a long winter watching the Bungholes...Go Reds.



http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=mlb/teams/003/attendance.aspx?team=003


http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance/_/sort/homePct

Of course we deserve a winner. Every market does. For another comparable, the Washington Nationals had absolute and average attendance figures very similar to those of the Reds. And, while possible to debate the merits of radio broadcasting networks and multi-state areas, also worth noting that the Cincinnati MSA is around 2.1 million in population with DC just over 600K. Professional Washington baseball teams have won 1 World Series in their history, most of which time they didn't have a baseball team. We've of course won 5.



What exactly is a Red?

Of hair, complexion and the like:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=red

Or redleg for that matter, if Joe McCarthy is asking.

mroby85
10-14-2012, 12:39 AM
Every fan base has fans that deserve a winner and "fans" that don't. Just because the total numbers are lesser, it doesn't mean that there aren't hardcore fans that are just as good as fans of teams that draw a larger number of attendance.