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TOBTTReds
10-13-2012, 11:46 PM
So, we had a rough knockout. But so have some other teams so far. TRY to take yourself out of your Reds shoes and answer objectively (I know that is tough).

Plus Plus
10-13-2012, 11:51 PM
I really think the Braves have had the worst bit of it. A clear #1 wild card team, they went to the one-game playoff and were significantly affected by one of the poorest calls that I have seen in a very long time.

That, combined with Chipper Jones retiring in the same game which led to the focus of the final inning being on booing and chanting at an umpire rather than celebrating one of the franchise's great players, makes the Braves' exit the most bitter pill to swallow.

TOBTTReds
10-13-2012, 11:53 PM
I really think the Braves have had the worst bit of it. A clear #1 wild card team, they went to the one-game playoff and were significantly affected by one of the poorest calls that I have seen in a very long time.

That, combined with Chipper Jones retiring in the same game which led to the focus of the final inning being on booing and chanting at an umpire rather than celebrating one of the franchise's great players, makes the Braves' exit the most bitter pill to swallow.

Yeah, I think being upset about an obvious blown call by an umpire might be worse than having your players lose fair and square. Not saying they lost because of that play, but it certainly hampered their chances.

I honestly think this is pretty close to a tossup. Gosh, the Nats had that game won yesterday. What a devestating loss for them too.

dougdirt
10-13-2012, 11:53 PM
Reds. This city just seems cursed.

HeatherC1212
10-14-2012, 12:04 AM
I voted for the Nats but you can make a case for the Braves too. It's been a pretty crappy post season for most of the teams that were clearly the best ones in the regular season. :(

757690
10-14-2012, 12:12 AM
Texas was the best team in baseball for most of the season, then lost the division by being swept in their final series, forcing a one game playoff. It seemed like everything was set for them to finally win it all, then poof, their season was gone.

Braves game was rough due to the call, but they were destined for the wild card game and should never have felt comfortable about their chances.

TOBTTReds
10-14-2012, 12:14 AM
I voted for the Nats but you can make a case for the Braves too. It's been a pretty crappy post season for most of the teams that were clearly the best ones in the regular season. :(

I honestly think the Nats got what they deserved (though I did vote for them). Can't just shut down a top pitcher due to fear of his innings pitched, then have your GM come out and say, "We'll be winning more divisions, and do this a few more times." I hope they miss the playoffs next year.

Griffey012
10-14-2012, 12:18 AM
I honestly think the Nats got what they deserved (though I did vote for them). Can't just shut down a top pitcher due to fear of his innings pitched, then have your GM come out and say, "We'll be winning more divisions, and do this a few more times." I hope they miss the playoffs next year.

Ditto...no matter what you believe in in terms of an actual religion, that is your freedom of choice, but it is hard to argue that baseball gods do in fact exist.

Much respect to the Cards, I hate the crap out of them, but have to respect their play and performance. They remind me so much of the Patriots it kills me inside (Colts fan).

TOBTTReds
10-14-2012, 12:26 AM
Much respect to the Cards, I hate the crap out of them, but have to respect their play and performance. They remind me so much of the Patriots it kills me inside (Colts fan).

That might be paranoia? The Patriots have one of the best coaches and QB's EVER. That is a recipe for amazing success. This year, the Cards have a brand new, inexperienced (managerial wise) manager and just lost one of the greatest hitters and managers ever. Also lost their ace all season til right before the playoffs (convenient, right?). They made it this far because MLB added a playoff team last minute, sort of like how the ump called IF fly last second. Any year before 2012, and they don't sniff the playoffs.

The only comparison I see is the "Tuck Rule" could be close to the luckiness of the IF Fly call.

Sorry.

757690
10-14-2012, 12:34 AM
That might be paranoia? The Patriots have one of the best coaches and QB's EVER. That is a recipe for amazing success. This year, the Cards have a brand new, inexperienced (managerial wise) manager and just lost one of the greatest hitters and managers ever. Also lost their ace all season til right before the playoffs (convenient, right?). They made it this far because MLB added a playoff team last minute, sort of like how the ump called IF fly last second. Any year before 2012, and they don't sniff the playoffs.

The only comparison I see is the "Tuck Rule" could be close to the luckiness of the IF Fly call.

Sorry.

I used to live in St. Louis, so I have a lot of Card fans as friends, and everyone of them totally understand how lucky they've been lately, they even joke about it, and they all have expressed some sense of guilt over it. So even they aren't convinced that they completely deserve this success.

Reds/Flyers Fan
10-14-2012, 01:56 AM
I voted Nats, who were victims of bad luck, bad pitching and bad umpiring. But the Braves losing on that joke of an umpire's call was just beyond any sort of reason.

Red in Chicago
10-14-2012, 07:35 AM
I voted Reds simply cuz I don't care about any other team

Oops, after reading the question again, we were suppose to take that out of the equation. That said, I vote Nats. Sorry

Captain Hook
10-14-2012, 11:10 AM
I voted Reds. I know I thought the Reds would advance one way or another after winning the first two in SF and I had plenty of time to think about it. I would argue that of all the teams mentioned the Reds were the only one to look like a sure bet to advance to the championship series. Teams come back in single games all of the time and it can be somewhat expected to happen but lossing the last three after winning the first two is something that just doesn't happen often.

I think it should also be mentioned that the opening post probably intended for all emotional attachments to be put aside. A lot us wanted the Cards to lose that game just about as bad as we wanted the Reds to advance.

Tornon
10-14-2012, 12:47 PM
The Rangers dominated their division all summer, were one of the biggest "locks" for the postseason all year. Then they basically have one bad week, get pushed into the Wildcard game where they are one & done

cincrazy
10-14-2012, 02:52 PM
The Braves played terrible, and even if the infield fly isn't called, no guarantee they come back. The Rangers and Reds both had awful collapses, but I've got to vote Washington here. You're up 6-0 in game 5, your ace is on the mound, you're one out away from closing the deal... and you blow it. Ouch, babe.

PuffyPig
10-14-2012, 04:57 PM
When you look at the list objectively, it seems like the Reds fail is actually #4.

Wonderful Monds
10-14-2012, 05:11 PM
When you look at the list objectively, it seems like the Reds fail is actually #4.

I can still argue it was the first actually I think.

The Rangers collapsed yeah, but you could sense fragility in them for a while and Hamilton didn't help either.

The Braves did draw the worst call I've ever seen in my lifetime, but you can't really say they lost because of it. They played badly around that call.

The Nats are the biggest contenders for worst collapse. But the Strasburg shut down is going to be second guessed and rightly so. That comeback by the Cards was pretty devastating but they did have to fight to get to game 5.

The Reds however, looked to be in good position most of the season. They cruised to the NL Central. We all got gut wrenched game one when Cueto went down but I think when we won that game a lot of us were riding pretty high. Then when game 2 was won, many of us acted as though the NLCS was a foregone conclusion. The meltdown Reds fans went down was slow and tortuous and a slap in the face of sorts considering the city's history with sports luck (or lack thereof)

PuffyPig
10-14-2012, 07:41 PM
I can still argue it was the first actually I think.



Of course you can, it's a matter of opinion.

But I can assure that fans of the Nats, Texas and Braves are suffering just as bad as we are.

TOBTTReds
10-14-2012, 07:55 PM
But I can assure that fans of the Nats, Texas and Braves are suffering just as bad as we are.

The other heart breaking losses actually helped me cope a bit. Even the Nats collapse, even though it was against the Cards, still helped me realize we had company.

cincinnati chili
10-14-2012, 07:57 PM
Have you met one current or former umpire who has said that the infield fly call was inaccurate? One?

It was absolutely the correct call. Harold Reynolds and the umpires are right. The rest of you are wrong.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/06/watch-harold-reynolds-argue-why-the-infield-fly-rule-was-the-right-call/

Wonderful Monds
10-14-2012, 08:49 PM
Of course you can, it's a matter of opinion.

But I can assure that fans of the Nats, Texas and Braves are suffering just as bad as we are.

Without a doubt. I was just saying as far as quantifiable factors go, this fan base has a pretty good case.

Wonderful Monds
10-14-2012, 08:50 PM
The other heart breaking losses actually helped me cope a bit. Even the Nats collapse, even though it was against the Cards, still helped me realize we had company.

The old adage misery lives company exists for a reason!

PuffyPig
10-14-2012, 08:52 PM
Have you met one current or former umpire who has said that the infield fly call was inaccurate? One?

It was absolutely the correct call. Harold Reynolds and the umpires are right. The rest of you are wrong.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/06/watch-harold-reynolds-argue-why-the-infield-fly-rule-was-the-right-call/

The amount of weight I give to any current or former umpire's opinion in deciding whether a current umpire is right or wrong is pretty much zero.

PuffyPig
10-14-2012, 08:53 PM
Without a doubt. I was just saying as far as quantifiable factors go, this fan base has a pretty good case.

If you consider what has happened in Texas recently, we got nothing on them.

Wonderful Monds
10-14-2012, 08:55 PM
If you consider what has happened in Texas recently, we got nothing on them.

I definitely thought about that, but to think of it another way, it has happened to them a couple times already. Not that they're used to it per se, but they are more used to it than Reds fans recently anyway.

Wonderful Monds
10-14-2012, 08:56 PM
The amount of weight I give to any current or former umpire's opinion in deciding whether a current umpire is right or wrong is pretty much zero.

Yes, same to Harold Reynolds who argued that Troy Tulowitzki was overrated and should be traded because he never got 100 RBIs.

cincinnati chili
10-14-2012, 11:08 PM
My point is that the umpires are enforcing the rule exactly as it is written. If an infielder can catch the ball with ordinary effort ... the umpire SHALL call the infield fly rule with less than 2 outs and runners on first and second. It's a black-and-white rule.

Some have come out since then and said the rule should be changed. That's fine. I don't disagree. But the rule is the rule for now. No need to criticize Sam Holbrook for doing his freaking job. And certainly no need to fan the flames when the guy is getting death threats.

I agree that Harold Reynolds has his strengths and weaknesses, but presumably one of his strengths is his 12 years of experience as a major league middle infielder and having some recollection of when umpires called the infield fly rule and when they didn't. As he demonstrated in that clip from the regular season, umpires make this call all the time, but nobody notices because 99.9% of the time major league infielders catch the ball.

REDREAD
10-14-2012, 11:22 PM
I voted the Reds, because we were up 2-0, and it's almost a given a 2-0 team would advance.. The other teams just didn't have that good feeling totally ripped from them due to a historic collapse.

cumberlandreds
10-15-2012, 07:48 AM
Easily the Nationals. One strike away,twice at that, from advancing and can't put them away. That's franchise destroying disappointment. You could see the Reds disappointment coming after they couldn't win game three. You could get yourself ready a little for that one.

KittyDuran
10-15-2012, 08:07 AM
I voted Nats I'd still be in shock after all that.

REDREAD
10-15-2012, 09:44 AM
You could see the Reds disappointment coming after they couldn't win game three. You could get yourself ready a little for that one.

Wow, that's kind of pessemistic (although maybe it's good to be pessemistic as a Reds fan :laugh: )

Considering how rare it is to blow a 2-0 lead, I just assumed the Reds would advance.. I kept thinking that until the Posey grand slam in Game 5..

cumberlandreds
10-15-2012, 10:07 AM
Wow, that's kind of pessemistic (although maybe it's good to be pessemistic as a Reds fan :laugh: )

Considering how rare it is to blow a 2-0 lead, I just assumed the Reds would advance.. I kept thinking that until the Posey grand slam in Game 5..

If the rotation hadn't have got messed up with Cueto's injury then I wouldn't have been that pessimistic. Really at first I wasn't but looking back after losing game three I knew it was going to be hard to win the series.

REDREAD
10-15-2012, 12:13 PM
If the rotation hadn't have got messed up with Cueto's injury then I wouldn't have been that pessimistic. Really at first I wasn't but looking back after losing game three I knew it was going to be hard to win the series.

I guess I figured after game 3, we had a good shot of spliting the last 2 (that's all we needed).

But I see your point, I thought going into the series that the Giants and Reds were pretty evenly matched, and it wasn't going to be easy.. But man, when you consider no NL team has ever blown a 2-0 LDS lead.. that was heartbreaking.

PuffyPig
10-15-2012, 05:50 PM
If the rotation hadn't have got messed up with Cueto's injury then I wouldn't have been that pessimistic. Really at first I wasn't but looking back after losing game three I knew it was going to be hard to win the series.


We had Latos on proper rest going on home in game 5. We had Leake at home going against Zito. We were, at worse, marginal favorites to win each game. It didn't work out that way, but we will win one of two games the majority of the times. especially at home.

Baseball is a random sport, so stuff happens.

But there was no reason to be pessimistic.