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View Full Version : Reds have 6 Gold Glove finalists, most of any team



[deleted]
10-29-2012, 01:35 PM
Phillips, Votto, Arroyo, Cozart, Stubbs, and Bruce.

Phillips and Votto could easily repeat, and I would never count Arroyo out. Not sure about the chances for the others. Also, it seems like they're breaking down the OF by position now - that must have started very recently, right?

Here's the full list:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121029&content_id=40119678&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

alett12
10-29-2012, 02:04 PM
Bruce deserves a Gold Glove, Stubbs doesn't hit well enough to get one even though that shouldn't matter, Cozart I also believe deserves one but I'm not sure if he will get it.

MrRedLegger
10-29-2012, 02:24 PM
BP is the only "lock" for a GG on that list but I think the Reds will bring in 3, possibly 4

cooperlamar
10-29-2012, 03:33 PM
I'm not sure BP is a lock - Darwin Barney could easily win it.

Todd Gack
10-29-2012, 04:38 PM
Bruce deserves a Gold Glove, Stubbs doesn't hit well enough to get one even though that shouldn't matter, Cozart I also believe deserves one but I'm not sure if he will get it.

Gold glovers aren't scared of walls.

MoneyInTheBank
10-29-2012, 04:47 PM
I'm not sure BP is a lock - Darwin Barney could easily win it.

+1

Barney actually won the fielding bible award which is heavily based on advanced defensive metrics. However, I think Phillips' frequent presence on the highlight reel still gives him the upper hand

MoneyInTheBank
10-29-2012, 04:49 PM
Gold glovers aren't scared of walls.

Bruce has maybe the best arm in baseball but he lacks elsewhere for sure

DocRed
10-29-2012, 07:03 PM
Bruce deserves a Gold Glove, Stubbs doesn't hit well enough to get one even though that shouldn't matter, Cozart I also believe deserves one but I'm not sure if he will get it.

2011 Bruce yes...2012 Bruce no way. Sorry Jay...

Maker_84
10-29-2012, 07:21 PM
yay, nice consolation for choking

bounty37h
10-30-2012, 10:17 AM
Phillips tweeted last night that he didn't win.

texasdave
10-30-2012, 10:23 AM
Phillips tweeted last night that he didn't win.

Beaten out by a purple dinosaur probably. That's just not right. The evolution of gold glove second basemen continues.

Eric from NC
10-30-2012, 05:48 PM
Just hope that Barnaby Miller or whatever the clown for the Cubs is called does not. He has a great fielding percentage because he has terrible range. He seems like a poor man's Dan Uggla.

The DARK
10-30-2012, 07:57 PM
Kinda disappointed that Cueto wasn't nominated. Perhaps it's a matter of seniority, but I never fail to be impressed by his pickoffs.

Spider Tre
10-30-2012, 10:05 PM
watching the GG awards show on ESPN
0/2. Cutch wins GG for CF and Heyward wins GG for RF
0/3. LaRoche wins at first base
0/4. the dinosaur wins. #BS
0/5. Rollins wins for SS
0/6. Behurle wins for pitchers

yikes

[deleted]
10-30-2012, 10:29 PM
Come on. Barney deserved it.

But... how the hell does Trout not win.

HometownHero
10-30-2012, 10:34 PM
Darwin Barney was the right pick at 2nd he had 28 defensive run saved at the postion, Robinson Cano was 2nd at +15 tied with Alexi Casilla. BP was tied for 4th with Pedroia and Ackley at +11. So If you just take what Barney lead the majors by he would have still had the NL best in DRS and that's why he also won the 2012 Fielding Bible Award which is the most legit defensive award out there.

BluegrassRedleg
10-30-2012, 11:56 PM
I don't buy any such thing as a defensive run saved at the position. That's some phony-baloney number made up by stat-a-holics AND is dependent on situational variables that are impossible to accurately measure.

Trust your eyes. There's nobody in this league on Phillips' level.

HometownHero
10-31-2012, 12:11 AM
I don't buy any such thing as a defensive run saved at the position. That's some phony-baloney number made up by stat-a-holics AND is dependent on situational variables that are impossible to accurately measure.

Trust your eyes. There's nobody in this league on Phillips' level.

Every single play is video reviewed to come up with DRS, its the best tool to use when judging defense.

BluegrassRedleg
10-31-2012, 12:54 AM
Every single play is video reviewed to come up with DRS, its the best tool to use when judging defense.

Doesn't take into account the opposing batter, pitcher, fielding alignment, conditions, etc., etc., etc. If your pitching staff is one of the best in baseball, there's going to be a helluva lot less opportunities to save runs. Like I said, I just don't buy that concept at all. Impossible to gauge.

I used to have an Elias book that talked about debunking the myth of how many runs Ozzie Smith saved per year. People used to throw out outrageous numbers for him, and the best evidence they could ever find was about 15 runs a season. Even they stressed there was no way to validate that.

HometownHero
10-31-2012, 01:27 AM
Doesn't take into account the opposing batter, pitcher, fielding alignment, conditions, etc., etc., etc. If your pitching staff is one of the best in baseball, there's going to be a helluva lot less opportunities to save runs. Like I said, I just don't buy that concept at all. Impossible to gauge.

I used to have an Elias book that talked about debunking the myth of how many runs Ozzie Smith saved per year. People used to throw out outrageous numbers for him, and the best evidence they could ever find was about 15 runs a season. Even they stressed there was no way to validate that.

They look at tons and tons of things....
http://fieldingbible.com/Fielding-Bible-FAQ.asp

texasdave
10-31-2012, 12:14 PM
I thought Michael Bourne was the best CF I saw this season. McCutchen winning it seems a little odd.

TSJ55
10-31-2012, 12:29 PM
I don't buy any such thing as a defensive run saved at the position. That's some phony-baloney number made up by stat-a-holics AND is dependent on situational variables that are impossible to accurately measure.
Trust your eyes...

Thank you BGRL. All the numbers currently in baseball can serve a purpose (other than stealing from the beauty of the game), but they are not the end all be all of player measurement.

BP drives me nuts with his showboating and wreckless disregard for fundamentals but he makes every play he supposed to make along with many, many plays that no other 2B in the NL (probably MLB) is able to make at all.

Old NDN
10-31-2012, 12:51 PM
Thank you BGRL. All the numbers currently in baseball can serve a purpose (other than stealing from the beauty of the game), but they are not the end all be all of player measurement.

BP drives me nuts with his showboating and wreckless disregard for fundamentals but he makes every play he supposed to make along with many, many plays that no other 2B in the NL (probably MLB) is able to make at all.

This. I believe 75% of those "bare-handed" plays he made were probably unnecessary. I kept waiting for him to screw one up and listen to all the uproar, but, to his credit, it never happened (that I remember). I wonder how much all this cost him with the voters?

With that said, most of us Reds fans see "his game" more often than most and appreciate his amazing ability. To me , there's none better.

smixsell
10-31-2012, 04:36 PM
There is simply NO WAY Darwin Barney is as good a second baseman as BP.

In this case the advanced stats are simply wrong.

PS I see they use computer analysis of camera footage to calculate the runs saved stat. There must be a difference in camera angles between the footage of DB and the footage of BP that is fooling the computer.

HometownHero
10-31-2012, 06:00 PM
If Darwin Barney played for us and BP was a Cubs player and he won the GG over the 2012 season of Barney this place would have exploded with anger.

texasdave
10-31-2012, 07:04 PM
http://www.fieldingbible.com/the-winners.asp

goreds2
10-31-2012, 09:17 PM
We have the best defensive team. I will take that.

Ironman92
10-31-2012, 10:00 PM
Ok folks.....he had a 144 game errorless streak....broke the all-time record by 25 games? You've seen the Cubs infielders on their horrible infield. Their infield surface is awful and easily one of the worst in baseball.

As for his range? I don't know how to post the link and the pic is bad....but you see the blurb out by the RF line....it's Barney after a catch in which he started one the edge of the dirt, slightly shaded towards 2nd and he took 17 strides to catch (Willie Mays famous catch was 21)

6357

jhiller21
11-01-2012, 04:08 AM
Phillips is starting to decline, he's still one of the best defenders at 2nd, but it can't last forever.

Ironman92
11-01-2012, 05:49 AM
Phillips is still great, does have great range and really has no weaknesses (does choose the o'lay play a good bit on balls to his right instead of centering the body)....but he makes the great plays as often as anyone. He could've won this year, but Barney had only 2 errors all season on the worst surface. Phillips has won 3....should win a couple more, but it's hard to go against nearly perfect especially when the numbers say his range is just as good.

BP is the Jim Edmonds of 2nd base....great great talent, legitimate highlight reel plays and a good portion of self-made highlight plays.

Larkin88
11-01-2012, 01:00 PM
Guys on this thread need to lay-off Barney. He had a hell of a year by any defensive measure and had a much shakier middle infield partner defensively with Castro than BP has with Cozart.

BP will win another Gold Glove in his career. I'd bet on it. I can't argue that he deserved it more than Barney this year without homerism, though. This is much less of a snub than all that All Star nonsense as far as I'm concerned.

And no, I don't think this means BP is starting to decline defensively. It probably will come, but I haven't seen it yet.

Falcon7
11-01-2012, 02:52 PM
Bruce has maybe the best arm in baseball but he lacks elsewhere for sure

Not even close! Decent strength, but a very inaccurate arm.

texasdave
11-01-2012, 02:57 PM
Guys on this thread need to lay-off Barney. He had a hell of a year by any defensive measure and had a much shakier middle infield partner defensively with Castro than BP has with Cozart.

BP will win another Gold Glove in his career. I'd bet on it. I can't argue that he deserved it more than Barney this year without homerism, though. This is much less of a snub than all that All Star nonsense as far as I'm concerned.

And no, I don't think this means BP is starting to decline defensively. It probably will come, but I haven't seen it yet.

How often did you get to see Barney play this season?

Falcon7
11-01-2012, 03:00 PM
Guys on this thread need to lay-off Barney. He had a hell of a year by any defensive measure and had a much shakier middle infield partner defensively with Castro than BP has with Cozart.

BP will win another Gold Glove in his career. I'd bet on it. I can't argue that he deserved it more than Barney this year without homerism, though. This is much less of a snub than all that All Star nonsense as far as I'm concerned.

And no, I don't think this means BP is starting to decline defensively. It probably will come, but I haven't seen it yet.

Phillips is better, but I have no problem with Barney winning it this year. BP is not well liked, if it's close at all, it will go to the other guy.

Ironman92
11-01-2012, 06:03 PM
As for Bruce having the best arm in baseball....thanks for the lulz.