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_Sir_Charles_
10-30-2012, 11:54 AM
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/10/29/3572164/gold-glove-finalists-announced

Votto, Phillips, Cozart, Stubbs, Bruce and Arroyo all named.

IMO the biggest snub is Ryan Hanigan. :(

M2
10-30-2012, 12:31 PM
Got a few bizarre nominees in there - Aramis Ramirez, Martin Prado, Andre Ethier, A.J. Pierzynski and Brandon Inge. Carlos Gomez and Chris Young are notable omissions.

Most loaded position is AL SS. All three of those guys are dynamite.

PuffyPig
10-30-2012, 12:39 PM
Ryan Braun???? He's terrible out there, even for a LF.

M2
10-30-2012, 01:03 PM
Ryan Braun???? He's terrible out there, even for a LF.

Completely disagree. He was rough out there when he first switched to the position, but he's become a fairly good LF. He has some range, gets decent reads on the ball, takes good routes and has a solid arm. I wouldn't give him a GG, but I'd say the same for almost everyone who plays LF. The days when you could hope for Braun to do something goofy on a flare to LF are long gone.

HeatherC1212
10-30-2012, 01:23 PM
FYI: The Reds have the most players named to the nominee list this year out of all the teams in MLB. :D

Scrap Irony
10-30-2012, 02:02 PM
I'm guessing Votto and Phillips are virtually sure-things, with both Stubbs and Cozart as distinct possibilities. Arroyo may make it, but he won it last year; so, no, not this year, IMO. Bruce-- notsomuch.

_Sir_Charles_
10-30-2012, 02:29 PM
For what it's worth, these are most all the catching stats I see on ESPN.com

Fielding %
McCann .998
Yadi .997
Hanigan .995

Passed Balls
Posey 2
Hanigan 3
Montero 5

SB allowed
Hanigan 34
Yadi 38
Montero 44

Caught Stealing
Posey 38
tied for 6th Hanigan 32

CS %
Hanigan .485
Yadi .479
Montero .421

Catchers ERA
Hanigan 3.05
Ellis 3.33
McCan 3.35
Posey 3.52

And Ryan didn't get into the top 3?!? Like I said, totally ROBBED! Personally I think he should've been the prohibited favorite except for the fact that they'll automatically give it to Molina. But in pretty much EVERY facet of the game defensively, Hanigan was the best in the NL. BY FAR.

mbgrayson
10-30-2012, 02:51 PM
Brandon Phillips seems to think that he won't win. Yesterday, on Twitter, he posted this:

Brandon Phillips‏@DatDudeBP: My 2012 ⚾ Season/Postseason was GOOD... but NOT GOOD enough: No #AllStar + No #GoldGlove + No #SilverSlugger + No #WSRing = #MOTIVATION


A lot of folks think Darwin Barney may win 2nd base GG this year. Not that I agree, but just sayin....

_Sir_Charles_
10-30-2012, 02:56 PM
If Phillips doesn't win the silver slugger, who would? Neil Walker? Seriously asking.

blumj
10-30-2012, 03:29 PM
Aaron Hill

Kc61
10-30-2012, 03:38 PM
Wouldn't be shocked if the Reds get shut out on GG award. Or maybe one winner.

Hanigan was absolutely robbed.

Phillips has a shot, but Barney could win it.

Votto could win it, but the long injury may hurt him.

Arroyo may have the best chance on the team.

I don't expect Stubbs, Cozart, or Bruce to win.

I think the real achievement here is Cozart being a finalist. Well deserved, the rookie really came up big as an all around SS this season, despite OBP problems. SS is the key defensive position on the ball field, Zack being a finalist there is terrific for him.

_Sir_Charles_
10-30-2012, 03:57 PM
Aaron Hill

Ah, yes. I forgot him. Thanks.

MikeThierry
10-30-2012, 04:00 PM
For what it's worth, these are most all the catching stats I see on ESPN.com

Fielding %
McCann .998
Yadi .997
Hanigan .995

Passed Balls
Posey 2
Hanigan 3
Montero 5

SB allowed
Hanigan 34
Yadi 38
Montero 44

Caught Stealing
Posey 38
tied for 6th Hanigan 32

CS %
Hanigan .485
Yadi .479
Montero .421

Catchers ERA
Hanigan 3.05
Ellis 3.33
McCan 3.35
Posey 3.52

And Ryan didn't get into the top 3?!? Like I said, totally ROBBED! Personally I think he should've been the prohibited favorite except for the fact that they'll automatically give it to Molina. But in pretty much EVERY facet of the game defensively, Hanigan was the best in the NL. BY FAR.

Hanigan should have been nominated but he was not the best in the NL by far. Molina caught 1161 innings compared to Hanigans 879 innings, which is a huge part of why A. Hanigan wasn't nominated and B. why it's hard to compare the two's stats. Molina led all of catchers in baseball in defensive runs saved as well. He won another Fielding Bible Award. I don't see how the two are even comparable on defense. Molina was by far the best defensive catcher in baseball this year, if you take the amount of innings he caught into the equation.

I do question though why Ruiz was nominated and not Hanigan. Hanigan caught more innings and had more defensive runs saved than Ruiz. That is where the snub is, in my opinion.

MikeThierry
10-30-2012, 04:01 PM
Here is Bill James take on who the best defensive players were:

http://www.billjamesonline.com/the_2012_fielding_bible_awards_/

kaldaniels
10-30-2012, 04:10 PM
Yadi was the best defensive catcher in the league this year.

For the record, I have zero amount of butt hurt that Hanigan wasn't nominated for the award.

_Sir_Charles_
10-30-2012, 04:49 PM
Hanigan should have been nominated but he was not the best in the NL by far. Molina caught 1161 innings compared to Hanigans 879 innings, which is a huge part of why A. Hanigan wasn't nominated and B. why it's hard to compare the two's stats. Molina led all of catchers in baseball in defensive runs saved as well. He won another Fielding Bible Award. I don't see how the two are even comparable on defense. Molina was by far the best defensive catcher in baseball this year, if you take the amount of innings he caught into the equation.

I do question though why Ruiz was nominated and not Hanigan. Hanigan caught more innings and had more defensive runs saved than Ruiz. That is where the snub is, in my opinion.

Agree to disagree. Mainly on the stat DRS. I have very little confidence in that stat (and many of the new fielding stats). Molina was by far the best catcher in all of MLB this year. No question. If you include the bat. But defensively & handling pitchers, sorry...not buying it.

MikeThierry
10-30-2012, 05:17 PM
Agree to disagree. Mainly on the stat DRS. I have very little confidence in that stat (and many of the new fielding stats). Molina was by far the best catcher in all of MLB this year. No question. If you include the bat. But defensively & handling pitchers, sorry...not buying it.

I really think amount of innings caught has to play into the equation here. Who knows how many BP, WP, CS Hanigan would have if he caught the amount of innings Molina did. I think it goes to show you how dominant Molina was this year on defense that Hanigan only had 7 less stolen base attemps against him than Molina even though Hanigan played in something like 270 innings less than Molina. Still, there is no excuse for Ruiz being nominated over Hanigan.

Wonderful Monds
10-30-2012, 05:25 PM
Yadi was the best defensive catcher in the league this year.

For the record, I have zero amount of butt hurt that Hanigan wasn't nominated for the award.

I think I would describe myself as having a residual amount of butthurt about it, personally.

_Sir_Charles_
10-30-2012, 05:29 PM
I really think amount of innings caught has to play into the equation here. Who knows how many BP, WP, CS Hanigan would have if he caught the amount of innings Molina did. I think it goes to show you how dominant Molina was this year on defense that Hanigan only had 7 less stolen base attemps against him than Molina even though Hanigan played in something like 270 innings less than Molina. Still, there is no excuse for Ruiz being nominated over Hanigan.

Let me be clear. Molina is an elite catcher. Period. But every player has ups and downs. This year was Molina's up offensive year and DOWN defensive year. I agree that innings caught should be a factor, but not a deciding one. The quality of those innings are what matters most IMO. And this season, Yadi fell short of Hanny. More guys ran and ran successfully on Molina. But for me, the number one job of a catcher (outside of anything with a bat) is how he handles the pitchers and the results of how he handles the pitchers. I know many don't put stock into Catchers' ERA, but I do. I also put stock into the winning percentage of a catcher. And it's not just with the starters, but with the relievers as well. The whole staff. And this season, Hanigan was better than Molina. Both handling pitchers and defending.

As I said, agree to disagree.

Razor Shines
10-30-2012, 05:37 PM
Brandon Phillips‏@DatDudeBP: My 2012 ⚾ Season/Postseason was GOOD... but NOT GOOD enough: No #AllStar + No #GoldGlove + No #SilverSlugger + No #WSRing = #MOTIVATION

Well hopefully he doesn't win either SS or GG, otherwise he clearly won't be as #motivated.

WildcatFan
10-30-2012, 05:49 PM
A little surprised Cueto isn't there for holding runners on better than anyone in the league.

MikeThierry
10-30-2012, 05:53 PM
Molina did not have a down year. His down year was last year when Ryan Theriot couldn't catch anything thrown to him when runners tried to steal off of Molina. More guys ran and ran successfully on Molina because Molina caught 270 more innings than Hannigan. If Hanigan caught as many innings as Molina did, more runners would have attempted to steal off of Hannigan if you go by the attempted stealing rate (Hannigan had .075 runners per inning attempt to steal off of him compared to .062 per inning for Molina). It wasn't because of Molina's "lack" of defensive skill. Pure mathematics made it that way.

Catchers ERA can be a bit deceptive as well because some catchers do not handle certain pitchers, like in the case with Hanigan. Molina caught everyone. The other flaw with Catchers ERA is that it doesn't take into account naturally bad pitchers. Cincy would have had a great bullpen this year regardless of catcher. If Hanigan wasn't behind the plate, Chapman would have still had one of the best years of any reliever in MLB history. This is also the case if you have bad pitchers on your pitching staff. Some of the Cardinals relievers would have been bad regardless if Molina or Hanigan was behind the plate. The Cardinals had one of the best starting rotations in baseball this year but their overall ERA was mediocre because the bullpen was so bad most of the year. The Reds had good starting pitching and brilliant bullpen talent so obviously it reflects better on Hannigan. It has nothing to do with how Hannigan calls the game though. Pitching talent is the #1 factor there. No catcher in baseball would have made Victor Marte all of a sudden a better pitcher. There is no real evidence to suggest that catchers influence ERA.

Superdude
10-30-2012, 06:25 PM
I think it goes to show you how dominant Molina was this year on defense that Hanigan only had 7 less stolen base attemps against him than Molina even though Hanigan played in something like 270 innings less than Molina.

That makes him more respected perhaps, not more dominant. Hanigan threw out close to 50% of base stealers this year. The more stolen base attempts the better with a rate like that. They're only hurting themselves.

MikeThierry
10-30-2012, 06:27 PM
That makes him more respected perhaps, not more dominant. Hanigan threw out close to 50% of base stealers this year. The more stolen base attempts the better with a rate like that. They're only hurting themselves.

It's hard to say if he keeps up that rate if he caught 270 innings more. Both Molina and Hanigan threw out 48% of runners so Hanigan doesn't have an edge over Molina in that regard.

Superdude
10-30-2012, 06:32 PM
It's hard to say if he keeps up that rate if he caught 270 innings more. Both Molina and Hanigan threw out 48% of runners so Hanigan doesn't have an edge over Molina in that regard.

I'm not making a case for Hanigan over Molina. Just saying stolen base attempts is an odd criteria, especially when each attempt on average is a net loss for the other team.

MikeThierry
10-30-2012, 06:35 PM
I'm not making a case for Hanigan over Molina. Just saying stolen base attempts is an odd criteria, especially when each attempt on average is a net loss for the other team.

I think part of it is the ability to hold runners on. When Molina is behind the plate (and I assume its the same for Hanigan), runners do not take huge leads. This has some impact on runners ability to go first to third on base hits. I know it's a negative play but at the same time, I think it's still important because teams still use the running game. Most managers still think it's a positive play anyways.

Patrick Bateman
10-30-2012, 06:45 PM
Let me be clear. Molina is an elite catcher. Period. But every player has ups and downs. This year was Molina's up offensive year and DOWN defensive year. I agree that innings caught should be a factor, but not a deciding one. The quality of those innings are what matters most IMO. And this season, Yadi fell short of Hanny. More guys ran and ran successfully on Molina. But for me, the number one job of a catcher (outside of anything with a bat) is how he handles the pitchers and the results of how he handles the pitchers. I know many don't put stock into Catchers' ERA, but I do. I also put stock into the winning percentage of a catcher. And it's not just with the starters, but with the relievers as well. The whole staff. And this season, Hanigan was better than Molina. Both handling pitchers and defending.

As I said, agree to disagree.



No doubt that Hanigan was great last season, perhaps even better than Molina on a per game basis. At the same time, I don't think there is much evidence to suggest that Molina had a down year defensively last season. He was the glue holding that team together.

_Sir_Charles_
10-30-2012, 07:03 PM
Molina did not have a down year.

My apologies on that part. When I'm wrong, I fess up. When I looked at Molina's career stats earlier today, whatever page I was looking at didn't show his 2012 year. So I was seeing his 2011 defensive stats. But when I compared all catchers in 2012, I stand by my assertion that Hanigan had a better defensive year. I know there's no way that anybody but Molina will get the award though. There's always players who get awards based on their history and not the actual facts of the season. Ozzie got some he didn't deserve. Brooks got some he didn't deserve. Jeter, Morgan, etc, etc, etc. I won't have a problem with Yadier winning the GG this year. He's certainly a deserving player. I just can't stand it when it's taken for granted that someone will get it based on reputation alone. And I especially can't stand it when a clearly deserving player gets completely snubbed...and I don't think anybody can argue that point in regards to Ryan this season.

PuffyPig
10-30-2012, 08:47 PM
It has nothing to do with how Hannigan calls the game though. Pitching talent is the #1 factor there. There is no real evidence to suggest that catchers influence ERA.

There is no real evidence that they don't either.

Saying that Hannigan didn't influence the Reds pitchers becuase they are great dismisses the possibilty (however small) that in fact he may have made a difference.

The Reds gave up the least amount of runs in the NL. For those of us who watch them every night, there is no doubt that the Reds defense (including Hannigan) were a part of that equation. When you consider the ball park they play in, the Reds runs allowed this year is an incredible achievement.

Degenerate39
10-30-2012, 09:09 PM
When are they announcing the winners?

blumj
10-30-2012, 09:13 PM
When are they announcing the winners?
At 9:30 on ESPN2.

dougdirt
10-30-2012, 10:42 PM
At 9:30 on ESPN2.

Or later.

camisadelgolf
10-30-2012, 10:48 PM
Rafael Palmeiro was just announced as the Gold Glove winner for first base in the AL.

camisadelgolf
10-30-2012, 10:49 PM
But seriously . . . http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/30/gold-glove-award-winners-as-theyre-announced/

kaldaniels
10-30-2012, 11:31 PM
I was all upset BP lost till I saw Trout didn't get one either. Wow.

mbgrayson
10-30-2012, 11:34 PM
No Reds among the winners.

Boss-Hog
10-30-2012, 11:37 PM
No Reds among the winners.
It's pretty amazing you can have six nominees and none of them win. Disappointed but not really surprised.

TeamBoone
10-31-2012, 12:19 AM
How can the Reds have one of the best defensive teams and not have one Gold Glove winner? It's a slap in the face.

Caveat Emperor
10-31-2012, 12:21 AM
I'll admit I'm biased on the subject, but you'll have a hell of a time convincing me that Darwin Barney is a better second baseman than Brandon Phillips.

MikeThierry
10-31-2012, 12:27 AM
As much as it pains me to give any Cubs players proper due, Darwin was insane at 2B defensively this year. He lead all second basemen in UZR this year and only had 2 errors. I know errors are an extremely flawed stat but just having 2 with the kind of range he has was amazing. Gahh... now I need to go take a shower for defending a Cub.

MikeThierry
10-31-2012, 12:30 AM
I was surprised to see McCutchen win it over Bourn this year. Bourn was probably the best defensive CF in baseball this year. Also, Brendan Ryan not winning it seemed almost criminal. He's been arguably the best defensive SS in baseball for the past couple of years now and had the best UZR amongst all SS.

Blitz Dorsey
10-31-2012, 01:16 AM
Barney won GG over Phillips because of his fielding percentage? What an absolute joke. Actually watching the games should be a requirement of the voters. #turrible

MikeThierry
10-31-2012, 01:55 AM
Barney won GG over Phillips because of his fielding percentage? What an absolute joke. Actually watching the games should be a requirement of the voters. #turrible

The advanced stats also show Barney was a better fielder as well. Phillips was great this year but Barney was better. Taking another shower now.

BCubb2003
10-31-2012, 02:00 AM
I'll admit I'm biased on the subject, but you'll have a hell of a time convincing me that Darwin Barney is a better second baseman than Brandon Phillips.

Darwin Barney agrees:


“You don’t expect to pass a guy like Brandon Phillips,” Barney said. “He’s exceptional at what he does. He was the best in the game for a long time, and I can’t sit here and say I’m better than him or anything like that. I had a good season and I think either of us could’ve won it. Fortunately for me, I did. He very easily could have won just as easily as I could.”

http://muskat.mlblogs.com/2012/10/30/1030-barney-wins-gold-glove/

fearofpopvol1
10-31-2012, 03:22 AM
A little surprised Cueto isn't there for holding runners on better than anyone in the league.

I was too. But perhaps that feat alone wasn't enough. I think they actually got it right for NL pitcher.

I think the Bourne snub was maybe the biggest of all. He should've flat out won it, and by a mile. Cutch was actually a below average fielder this year, so it doesn't make sense at all.

Given who Cozart was up against, he actually should've won it. It's amazing thought that Clint Barmes wasn't considered at all when he was in theory the best guy at the position!

redsmetz
10-31-2012, 06:20 AM
Might as well post the winners; it's a matter of public record:

CATCHER
American League: Matt Wieters
National League: Yadier Molina

LEFT FIELD
American League: Alex Gordon
National League: Carlos Gonzalez

CENTER FIELD
American League: Adam Jones
National League: Andrew McCutchen

RIGHT FIELD
American League: Josh Reddick
National League: Jason Heyward

FIRST BASE
American League: Mark Teixeira
National League: Adam LaRoche

SECOND BASE
American League: Robinson Cano
National League: Darwin Barney

SHORTSTOP
American League: J.J. Hardy
National League: Jimmy Rollins

THIRD BASE
American League: Adrian Beltre
National League: Chase Headley

PITCHER
American League: Jake Peavy, Jeremy Hellickson
National League: Mark Buehrle

cumberlandreds
10-31-2012, 08:45 AM
Phillips not winning is a joke. No one is better on day in day out basis. I don't care if Barney had only two errors. One reason a player doesn't have as many errors is lack of range. I haven't watch Barney enough to know what kind of range he has but I would be surprised if it was equal to Phillips. The dirty little secrect is that a lot of people are turned off to Phillips personality. Give them a reason not to vote for him and some won't. Barney's lack of errors game them that reason. Oh well maybe this will make Phillips more determined next season to be even better.
I don't have a problem with any of the other Reds not winning. Molina is clearly the best catcher in the NL. Bruce had too many mis-plays in the of to warrant consideration. Even though hitting shouldn't be factor it is. Stubbs hitting only about .210 killed his chances of winning. Also just not very many good defensive SS in the NL this season. Cozart should have good chance at this awards next season.

Degenerate39
10-31-2012, 09:38 AM
I really doubt that Rollins is better than Cozart at this point in time

dfs
10-31-2012, 10:32 AM
It seems odd that this was the best defensive team I have ever seen and nobody won a gold glove.

reds1869
10-31-2012, 10:45 AM
I can deal with Barney over Phillips because he had a very good year and was steady-as-she-goes all season. If you told me I had a ground ball going to second that would determine the fate of the game I'd want either Phillips or Barney out there.

I also have little problem with the other Reds "losing" to their competitors who were quite deserving. The one that burns me up is Rollins winning at shortstop. This isn't supposed to be a lifetime achievement award, voters.

OesterPoster
10-31-2012, 11:08 AM
On the bright side, no awards probably saved Mr. Castellini a few bucks. According to COTS, BP's salary increases by $250,000 each year following a Gold Glove. Votto gets $50,000 bonuses for each Gold Glove, Rolen's is the same. (Strangely, so did Mahay, Wuertz, and Valdez...don't laugh.)

Chip R
10-31-2012, 11:30 AM
Also, Brendan Ryan not winning it seemed almost criminal. He's been arguably the best defensive SS in baseball for the past couple of years now and had the best UZR amongst all SS.

Didn't Carpenter basically get Ryan ran out of StL because he had the audacity to commit an error or two while he was pitching?

Kc61
10-31-2012, 11:57 AM
The Reds had six nominees for the GG and a seventh, Hanigan, who is an outstanding defender as well.

That should tell us something about the quality of the defense on this ballclub.

The nominees included SS, 2B, CF. And the catcher is outstanding. Great up the middle defense.

Absence of any winners is annoying, but less important.

blumj
10-31-2012, 12:33 PM
I wouldn't use the choices of these voters as evidence for anything. Fortunately, the quality of the Reds defense is evident with or without their input.

Red in Chicago
10-31-2012, 12:48 PM
Barney deserved the GG. He's pretty solid, although not as flashy as BP.

MikeThierry
10-31-2012, 01:30 PM
Didn't Carpenter basically get Ryan ran out of StL because he had the audacity to commit an error or two while he was pitching?

Well other teammates didn't like his attitude. It's not that Ryan was a bad person but he was like an annoying child at times. I would liken it to you're trying to watch TV and your 5 year old continues to turn off the TV. The clubhouse got tired of his antics, which was even before the Carpenter thing. The Carpenter issue was him bringing out the wrong glove and the game had to be delayed a bit. It was sort of the icing on the cake. It just wasn't the Carpenter issue, it was a multitude of things. I liked Ryan but I can see why the Cards traded him and why the players wanted him out.



Phillips not winning is a joke. No one is better on day in day out basis. I don't care if Barney had only two errors. One reason a player doesn't have as many errors is lack of range. I haven't watch Barney enough to know what kind of range he has but I would be surprised if it was equal to Phillips. The dirty little secrect is that a lot of people are turned off to Phillips personality. Give them a reason not to vote for him and some won't. Barney's lack of errors game them that reason. Oh well maybe this will make Phillips more determined next season to be even better.


I don't get how people can say that Barney doesn't have the range of Phillips. Phillips is a great fielder but Barney lead all of second basemen in UZR this year. A high UZR generally coorelates to a pretty good range. You are right to say that the lack of errors does mean, at times, lack of range (see Jeter). However the advanced stats do not show this for Barney. He won the Fielding Bible Award this year at second, saving 28 defensive runs. Darwin fully deserved the GG this year. Another thing is that Darwin had close to 100 more chances at second than Phillips did even though Phillips played slightly more innings at 2nd than Barney did. That in and of itself tells you the kind of range that Barney had this year. I've never been a fan of Barney but give the kid his due this year. He was stellar.

Caveat Emperor
10-31-2012, 02:28 PM
His ridiculously stupid name alone should disqualify him from winning the award.

westofyou
10-31-2012, 02:35 PM
His ridiculously stupid name alone should disqualify him from winning the award.
He's friends with this woman I work with, went to college together

MikeThierry
10-31-2012, 02:37 PM
His ridiculously stupid name alone should disqualify him from winning the award.

Completely agree with the stupid name part. He's probably one of the players I least like in baseball but all of my hate for him have nothing to do with play on the field. Who the hell names their kid Darwin? The fact that he plays for the Cubs automtically puts him on my dislike list. Lastly, the dude chews his gum like he's a cow chewing his cud. It's like he was raised in a barn. Still... he played brilliantly at 2nd this year :laugh:

_Sir_Charles_
10-31-2012, 02:42 PM
I kinda saw this result coming unfortunately. I don't agree with it, but oh well.

M2
10-31-2012, 03:00 PM
Barney strikes me as a Freddy Garcia type of fielder - doesn't make mistakes, can sometimes post gaudy numbers in seasons where the ball finds him a little extra, but rarely makes an outstanding play.

FWIW, I like his name. Beats the snot out of Joe Smith.

_Sir_Charles_
10-31-2012, 03:07 PM
The Reds had six nominees for the GG and a seventh, Hanigan, who is an outstanding defender as well.

That should tell us something about the quality of the defense on this ballclub.

The nominees included SS, 2B, CF. And the catcher is outstanding. Great up the middle defense.

Absence of any winners is annoying, but less important.

Don't forget two others who could've easily been nominated. Rolen & Cueto.

Larkin Fan
11-01-2012, 01:07 AM
I can't believe that they gave a purple dinosaur the gold glove over BP. What's this world coming to?

Always Red
11-01-2012, 09:19 AM
Jimmy Rollins? Really?

Joe P weighs in on the Gold Gloves: http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-gold-gloves.html#more

MikeThierry
11-01-2012, 02:13 PM
Jimmy Rollins? Really?

Joe P weighs in on the Gold Gloves: http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-gold-gloves.html#more

My favorite line from that article:

"Yep, that's Ryan. He's an artist at shortstop. He's beautiful to watch play defense. There seems absolutely no way that anyone could miss this. J.J. Hardy is a good defensive shortstop too, but he's Salieri. Ryan is Mozart."

Joe P is, by far, the best sports writer in America.

camisadelgolf
11-01-2012, 04:12 PM
My favorite line from that article:

"Yep, that's Ryan. He's an artist at shortstop. He's beautiful to watch play defense. There seems absolutely no way that anyone could miss this. J.J. Hardy is a good defensive shortstop too, but he's Salieri. Ryan is Mozart."

Joe P is, by far, the best sports writer in America.
No doubt. The Salieri comment put a huge smile on my face.

SunDeck
11-01-2012, 04:56 PM
No doubt. The Salieri comment put a huge smile on my face.

I like his writing, but I don't find it impressive that a sportswriter can recall the movie version of history.

camisadelgolf
11-01-2012, 05:52 PM
I like his writing, but I don't find it impressive that a sportswriter can recall the movie version of history.
The movie itself is history. It's one of the best of all-time.

MikeThierry
11-01-2012, 06:53 PM
I like his writing, but I don't find it impressive that a sportswriter can recall the movie version of history.

Historically, Salieri was considered a brilliant composer in his day and his chief rival would have been Mozart along with other composers. They had a good relationship from what I understand and Salieri wasn't psycho like in the movie. Technically, Joe was right in a way. Still made me smile.