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westofyou
10-30-2012, 12:45 PM
Here's the official list of free agents (as of now) put out by the Major League Players Association this morning:


Atlanta: Baker, Jeff; Batista, Miguel; Bourn, Michael; Diaz, Matt; Durbin, Chad; Hinske, Eric; Johnson, Reed; Overbay, Lyle; Ross, Dave; Sheets, Ben

Arizona: Saito, Takashi

Baltimore: Chavez, Endy; Hall, Bill; Johnson, Nick; McLouth, Nate ; Saunders, Joe ; Thome, Jim ; Wolf, Randy

Boston: Cook, Aaron ; Loney, James ; Matsuzaka, Daisuke ; Ortiz, David ; Padilla, Vicente ; Podsednik, Scott ; Ross, Cody

Chicago Cubs: Camp, Shawn

Cleveland; Broxton, Jonathan ; Cairo, Miguel J. ; Navarro, Dioner ; Rolen, Scott ; Kotchman, Casey ; Sizemore, Grady

Colorado: Francis, Jeff ; Giambi, Jason ; Sanchez, Jonathan

Chicago White Sox: Bruney, Brian; Hudson, Orlando; Liriano, Francisco; Lopez, Jose ; Pierzynski, A.J. ; Wise, DeWayne

Detroit: Laird, Gerald ; Sanchez, Anibal ; Valverde, Jose ; Young, Delmon

Kansas City: Guthrie, Jeremy

Los Angeles Angels: Greinke, Zack ; Hawkins, LaTroy ; Hunter, Torii K. ; Isringhausen, Jason ; Izturis, Maicer

Los Angeles Dodgers: Abreu, Bobby ; Blanton, Joe ; Choate, Randy ; Kennedy, Adam ; League, Brandon ; Victorino, Shane ; Wright, Jamey

Miami: Gaudin, Chad ; Kearns, Austin ; Lee, Carlos ; Oviedo, Juan ; Zambrano, Carlos

Milwaukee: Marcum, Shaun ; Rodriguez, Francisco ; Gonzalez, Alex ;

Minnesota: Capps, Matt; Pavano, Carl

New York Mets: Byrdak, Tim ; Cedeno, Ronny ; Hairston, Scott ; Ramirez, Ramon ; Rauch, Jon ; Shoppach, Kelly ; Young, Chris

New York Yankees: Chavez, Eric C. ; Feliciano, Pedro ; Garcia, Freddy Antonio ; Ibanez, Raul J. ; Jones, Andruw ; Kuroda, Hiroki* ; Lowe, Derek ; Martin, Russell ; Pettitte, Andy ; Rivera, Mariano ; Suzuki, Ichiro ; Swisher, Nick ;

Oakland: Colon, Bartolo ; Gomes, Jonny ; Inge, Brandon ; McCarthy, Brandon

Philadelphia: Pierre, Juan ; Schneider, Brian

Pittsburgh: Correia, Kevin ; Grilli, Jason ; Qualls, Chad;

San Diego: Marquis, Jason

Seattle: Millwood, Kevin ; Olivo, Miguel ; Perez, Oliver ; Sherrill, George

San Francisco: Affeldt, Jeremy ; Cabrera, Melky ; Mota, Guillermo ; Nady, Xavier ; Pagan, Angel ; Penny, Brad ; Sanchez, Freddy ; Scutaro, Marco ; Theriot, Ryan

St. Louis: Berkman, Lance ; Fuentes, Brian ; Lohse, Kyle
Tampa Bay: Farnsworth, Kyle L. ; Howell, J.P. ; Keppinger, Jeff ; Pena, Carlos ; Peralta, Joel ; Upton, B.J.

Texas: Adams, Mike ; Dempster, Ryan S. ; Hamilton, Josh ; Lewis, Colby ; Lowe, Mark ; Napoli, Mike ; Oswalt, Roy ; Uehara, Koji*

Toronto: Frasor, Jason ; Johnson, Kelly ; Lyon, Brandon ; Villanueva, Carlos ; Vizquel, Omar

Washington: De Rosa, Mark ; Duke, Zach ; Gonzalez, Mike ; Jackson, Edwin ; Wang, Chien-Ming


*Eligible per contract terms

The following players are eligible for free agency pending option provisions in their Uniform Players Contract (UPC):

Atlanta: Hudson, Tim ; Jones, Chipper ; Maholm, Paul ; McCann, Brian

Arizona: Blanco, Henry ; Lindstrom, Matthew

Baltimore: Ayala, Luis

Cleveland: Ludwick, Ryan ; Madson, Ryan ; Hafner, Travis ; Hernandez, Roberto

Chicago White Sox: Floyd, Gavin ; Myers, Brett ; Peavy, Jacob ; Youkilis, Kevin

Detroit: Dotel, Octavio E. ; Peralta, Jhonny

Houston: Snyder, Chris

Kansas City: Soria, Joakim

Los Angeles Angels: Haren, Danny ; Santana, Ervin

Los Angeles Dodgers: Coffey, Todd ; Rivera, Juan ; Treanor, Matt ;

Minnesota; Baker, Scott

New York Mets: Wright, David ; Dickey, R.A.

New York Yankees: Aardsma, David ; Cano, Robinson ; Granderson, Curtis ; Soriano, Rafael

Oakland: Balfour, Grant ; Drew, Stephen

Philadelphia: Contreras, Jose ; Polanco, Placido ; Ruiz, Carlos ; Wigginton, Ty

Pittsburgh: Barajas, Rod

San Francisco: Huff, Aubrey

Tampa Bay: Molina, Jose ; Rodney, Fernando ; Scott, Luke ; Shields, James

Texas: Feldman, Scott

Toronto: Oliver, Darren

Washington: Burnett, Sean ; LaRoche, Adam

Scrap Irony
10-30-2012, 01:07 PM
Cleveland has some very nice players, it seems.

And Cincinnati has apparently been contracted.

Bummer.

redsmetz
10-30-2012, 01:59 PM
Cleveland has some very nice players, it seems.

And Cincinnati has apparently been contracted.

Bummer.

Clearly they've merged the two Ohio teams. Are we both the Ohio Buckeyes? North & south? Has anyone told Chip? Why isn't he a free agent?

Scrap Irony
10-30-2012, 02:01 PM
Let's go ahead and take Cleveland's best players.

It's not like their fan would notice.

westofyou
10-30-2012, 02:23 PM
Clearly they've merged the two Ohio teams. Are we both the Ohio Buckeyes? North & south? Has anyone told Chip? Why isn't he a free agent?

It's from the Boston Globe, maybe they think Ohio is just one place Clevinnati

traderumor
10-30-2012, 03:27 PM
It's from the Boston Globe, maybe they think Ohio is just one place Clevinnati
We should thank them just for including any of the teams besides the Red Sox and Yankees. Now, if someone could communicate that there are 27 to 28 other teams to MLB Network and ESPN.

corkedbat
10-30-2012, 03:35 PM
Here's the official list of free agents (as of now) put out by the Major League Players Association this morning:


Atlanta: Baker, Jeff; Batista, Miguel; Bourn, Michael; Diaz, Matt; Durbin, Chad; Hinske, Eric; Johnson, Reed; Overbay, Lyle; Ross, Dave; Sheets, Ben

Arizona: Saito, Takashi

Baltimore: Chavez, Endy; Hall, Bill; Johnson, Nick; McLouth, Nate ; Saunders, Joe ; Thome, Jim ; Wolf, Randy

Boston: Cook, Aaron ; Loney, James ; Matsuzaka, Daisuke ; Ortiz, David ; Padilla, Vicente ; Podsednik, Scott ; Ross, Cody

Chicago Cubs: Camp, Shawn

Cleveland; Broxton, Jonathan ; Cairo, Miguel J. ; Navarro, Dioner ; Rolen, Scott ; Kotchman, Casey ; Sizemore, Grady

Colorado: Francis, Jeff ; Giambi, Jason ; Sanchez, Jonathan

Chicago White Sox: Bruney, Brian; Hudson, Orlando; Liriano, Francisco; Lopez, Jose ; Pierzynski, A.J. ; Wise, DeWayne

Detroit: Laird, Gerald ; Sanchez, Anibal ; Valverde, Jose ; Young, Delmon

Kansas City: Guthrie, Jeremy

Los Angeles Angels: Greinke, Zack ; Hawkins, LaTroy ; Hunter, Torii K. ; Isringhausen, Jason ; Izturis, Maicer

Los Angeles Dodgers: Abreu, Bobby ; Blanton, Joe ; Choate, Randy ; Kennedy, Adam ; League, Brandon ; Victorino, Shane ; Wright, Jamey

Miami: Gaudin, Chad ; Kearns, Austin ; Lee, Carlos ; Oviedo, Juan ; Zambrano, Carlos

Milwaukee: Marcum, Shaun ; Rodriguez, Francisco ; Gonzalez, Alex ;

Minnesota: Capps, Matt; Pavano, Carl

New York Mets: Byrdak, Tim ; Cedeno, Ronny ; Hairston, Scott ; Ramirez, Ramon ; Rauch, Jon ; Shoppach, Kelly ; Young, Chris

New York Yankees: Chavez, Eric C. ; Feliciano, Pedro ; Garcia, Freddy Antonio ; Ibanez, Raul J. ; Jones, Andruw ; Kuroda, Hiroki* ; Lowe, Derek ; Martin, Russell ; Pettitte, Andy ; Rivera, Mariano ; Suzuki, Ichiro ; Swisher, Nick ;

Oakland: Colon, Bartolo ; Gomes, Jonny ; Inge, Brandon ; McCarthy, Brandon

Philadelphia: Pierre, Juan ; Schneider, Brian

Pittsburgh: Correia, Kevin ; Grilli, Jason ; Qualls, Chad;

San Diego: Marquis, Jason

Seattle: Millwood, Kevin ; Olivo, Miguel ; Perez, Oliver ; Sherrill, George

San Francisco: Affeldt, Jeremy ; Cabrera, Melky ; Mota, Guillermo ; Nady, Xavier ; Pagan, Angel ; Penny, Brad ; Sanchez, Freddy ; Scutaro, Marco ; Theriot, Ryan

St. Louis: Berkman, Lance ; Fuentes, Brian ; Lohse, Kyle

Tampa Bay: Farnsworth, Kyle L. ; Howell, J.P. ; Keppinger, Jeff ; Pena, Carlos ; Peralta, Joel ; Upton, B.J.

Texas: Adams, Mike ; Dempster, Ryan S. ; Hamilton, Josh ; Lewis, Colby ; Lowe, Mark ; Napoli, Mike ; Oswalt, Roy ; Uehara, Koji*

Toronto: Frasor, Jason ; Johnson, Kelly ; Lyon, Brandon ; Villanueva, Carlos ; Vizquel, Omar

Washington: De Rosa, Mark ; Duke, Zach ; Gonzalez, Mike ; Jackson, Edwin ; Wang, Chien-Ming


*Eligible per contract terms

The following players are eligible for free agency pending option provisions in their Uniform Players Contract (UPC):

Atlanta: Hudson, Tim ; Jones, Chipper ; Maholm, Paul ; McCann, Brian

Arizona: Blanco, Henry ; Lindstrom, Matthew

Baltimore: Ayala, Luis

Cleveland: Ludwick, Ryan ; Madson, Ryan ; Hafner, Travis ; Hernandez, Roberto

Chicago White Sox: Floyd, Gavin ; Myers, Brett ; Peavy, Jacob ; Youkilis, Kevin

Detroit: Dotel, Octavio E. ; Peralta, Jhonny

Houston: Snyder, Chris

Kansas City: Soria, Joakim

Los Angeles Angels: Haren, Danny ; Santana, Ervin

Los Angeles Dodgers: Coffey, Todd ; Rivera, Juan ; Treanor, Matt ;

Minnesota; Baker, Scott

New York Mets: Wright, David ; Dickey, R.A.

New York Yankees: Aardsma, David ; Cano, Robinson ; Granderson, Curtis ; Soriano, Rafael

Oakland: Balfour, Grant ; Drew, Stephen

Philadelphia: Contreras, Jose ; Polanco, Placido ; Ruiz, Carlos ; Wigginton, Ty

Pittsburgh: Barajas, Rod

San Francisco: Huff, Aubrey

Tampa Bay: Molina, Jose ; Rodney, Fernando ; Scott, Luke ; Shields, James

Texas: Feldman, Scott

Toronto: Oliver, Darren

Washington: Burnett, Sean ; LaRoche, Adam


Bolded those that might interest Jocketty to one extent or another.

Cleveland & Cicncinnati - same city?

redsmetz
10-30-2012, 03:35 PM
We should thank them just for including any of the teams besides the Red Sox and Yankees. Now, if someone could communicate that there are 27 to 28 other teams to MLB Network and ESPN.

You mean something like this?

http://www.adambaumgoldgallery.com/steinberg/posters/view_of_new_york.jpg

westofyou
10-30-2012, 03:44 PM
Bolded those that might interest Jocketty to one extent or another.

Balfour I believe had his option grabbed

Tom Servo
10-30-2012, 03:46 PM
Shields' option was picked up as well.

_Sir_Charles_
10-30-2012, 03:53 PM
Actually, I think the MLB network does a great job of covering all the teams. It's ESPN that has that ridiculous bias. Well Fox too I guess.

Tadasimha
10-30-2012, 03:54 PM
Wouldn't mind the Reds kicking the tires on Scott Podsednik. He's getting up there in age but would be decent outfielder and is a lefty who's career splits are fairly even: .275 against LH, .282 against RH. Wouldn't cost much either.

MikeThierry
10-30-2012, 04:23 PM
Does anyone feel that this is the weakest list of free agents we've seen in years? Nobody really jumps out at me. Many guys are just names and are old.

*BaseClogger*
10-30-2012, 04:35 PM
Does anyone feel that this is the weakest list of free agents we've seen in years? Nobody really jumps out at me. Many guys are just names and are old.

Greinke and Hamilton will attract some attention. Maybe there isn't huge starpower, but I see the potential for a lot of depth in this FA class...

MikeThierry
10-30-2012, 04:39 PM
Greinke and Hamilton will attract some attention. Maybe there isn't huge starpower, but I see the potential for a lot of depth in this FA class...

There could be some depth players there but I do see a lot of lateral moves, in my opinion. I don't see a lot of players on this list that make a ball club significantly better. I think the middle infield free agents are particularly weak this year.

LoganBuck
10-30-2012, 10:17 PM
Dodgers spend $21.5 Million for three years of Brandon League. Eyes popping out emoticon.

PuffyPig
10-31-2012, 07:47 AM
Dodgers spend $21.5 Million for three years of Brandon League. Eyes popping out emoticon.

Sure glad we signed Marshall to that extension before the season.

His projected cost now?

blumj
10-31-2012, 08:28 AM
It's from the Boston Globe, maybe they think Ohio is just one place Clevinnati
It's Nick Cafardo again. I had to check, not because the other Globe guys don't mess things up, but because Cafardo is a near lock to mess anything up.

Vottomatic
10-31-2012, 08:56 AM
Well, if I had my crazy way, I'd fix the two problems with the Reds by extreme measures.

Problems:
1. Legit cleanup hitter to protect Votto. Someone with a good batting average, OBP, and reasonable power.
2. The 1 and 2 holes in the lineup. I'd add high OBP guys with decent speed at both positions. And most likely this would be LF and CF.
3. I'd can Stubbs however I could.
4. I'd let Ludwick walk.

My crazy solutions:
1. Trade with the Mets for David Wright and his .306 average, .391 OBP, 21 HR's, 93 rbi. He's a feared hitter and a solid third baseman. I know it would cost alot of money and alot in trade, but it would solidify 3B (he's 29 years old) for years to come and the help the Reds get maximum value out of Votto for the length of his contract. With Votto (LH) batting third, Wright (RH) fourth, and Bruce (LH) batting 5th, it maintains Dusty's lefty, righty, lefty need.
2. I'd trade for either Span (.357 career OBP), Fowler (.364 OBP), or sign Pagan (.333 career OBP) to play CF.

CF Fowler (SH) or Span (LH) or Pagan (SH)
2B Phillips (RH)
1B Votto (LH)
3B Wright (RH)
RF Bruce (LH)
LF Frazier (RH)
C Hanigan (RH)
SS Cozart (RH)

If Hamilton makes it to the big leagues, then so be it. Maybe he plays LF and bats lower in the order until he proves himself. Or maybe you move him to leadoff, Span to 2nd in the lineup, and move everyone down one in the order, Votto - cleanup, Wright 5th, etc. Or maybe Phillips drops behind Bruce in the lineup batting 6th and Hamilton and Span or Fowler are in the first 2 spots.

Either way, it's a nice problem to have.

*BaseClogger*
10-31-2012, 12:18 PM
What are you trading the Mets for Wright? Hamilton, or the entire rest of the farm system?

Vottomatic
10-31-2012, 12:30 PM
What are you trading the Mets for Wright? Hamilton, or the entire rest of the farm system?

I didn't say it would work. I'm just saying that Wright is the type of hitter you need behind Votto to maximize Votto's talent. Ryan Ludwick or Jay Bruce hitting cleanup aren't going to get Joey pitches to hit.

CySeymour
10-31-2012, 12:37 PM
Vottomatic, I think Fowler or Span would be very good targets for the Reds.

MikeS21
10-31-2012, 12:37 PM
Problem is that Walt set the bar so high last off-season that we may be years before we see that much activity again. As others have said, there are a lot of lateral moves to be made but I don't see any moves that will upgrade a position that won't create a hole somewhere else.

I am not in favor of making a move just to make a move.

westofyou
10-31-2012, 12:39 PM
I didn't say it would work. I'm just saying that Wright is the type of hitter you need behind Votto to maximize Votto's talent. Ryan Ludwick or Jay Bruce hitting cleanup aren't going to get Joey pitches to hit.
Mike Trout would be a great fit in the lead off spot.

But well you know....


Meanwhile, more stuff

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/40121484/



What is it exactly that has made the offseason so attractive?

There is of course the belief of fans of those teams that sputtered out of contention this season that a couple moves during the next few months will improve next year’s outlook (although really, how many Houston Astros fans really believe they will finish out of last place in 2013?). Irrational optimism is also part of the offseason fun.

But could it be that what we most enjoy about the offseason is the chance to mock some of the decision-making … allowing us to ignore some of our own questionable decision-making?

The same group of us who enjoy critiquing a seemingly silly free-agent signing (oh my goodness I can’t believe the Red Sox gave Carl Crawford so much money!) won’t think twice about some of the silly decisions we make in our own lives (Hurricane Sandy shopping trip purchase: Olives? Olives. Olives!).

In the offseason we can hold baseball executives to a higher standard of decision making than we hold ourselves. We gasp at what Philadelphia Phillies general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. spends on free agents, while not thinking twice about how much we spend on something like cable television ($150 a month for 1,000 channels even though we usually just watch 15-20 channels, many sports-related).

Which of us hasn’t ordered one last unfortunate drink before last call, or bought electronics at the airport, or dated the completely wrong person, yet continued to laugh at the financials of the Alfonso Soriano contract?

This winter, when we’re trying to forget how much we’ve spent on smartphone apps we never use, these are some of the stories that we’ll be thinking about while we enjoy the start of baseball’s second season:

westofyou
10-31-2012, 01:15 PM
Dodgers spend $21.5 Million for three years of Brandon League. Eyes popping out emoticon.

The White Sox signed Jake Peavy to a two-year, $29 million contract.

PuffyPig
10-31-2012, 01:56 PM
It's easy to GM this team when you have an unlimited payroll.

Need a clean up hitter? Trade for Wright. Hey you don't even need to speculate what players to give up or how we actually pay for it. Or whether the Mets would even likely trade a player they are about to sign to a long term contract.

As someone said, Trout can hit leadoff then.

LoganBuck
10-31-2012, 03:46 PM
The League deal effectively prices Broxton and maybe to a lesser extent Madson out of the Reds budget. Rafael Soriano will be asking for the moon.

Teams with Closer needs.
Angels
Twins
Reds(maybe)
Brewers
BlueJays
Yankees(maybe)
Rockies
Tigers
Cubs
Marlins
Astros

blumj
10-31-2012, 03:57 PM
The Dodgers seem to be operating in their own market right now, I'm not sure too many others will follow their lead.

Vottomatic
10-31-2012, 04:46 PM
It's easy to GM this team when you have an unlimited payroll.

Need a clean up hitter? Trade for Wright. Hey you don't even need to speculate what players to give up or how we actually pay for it. Or whether the Mets would even likely trade a player they are about to sign to a long term contract.

As someone said, Trout can hit leadoff then.

Obviously a shot at me.

*BaseClogger*
10-31-2012, 04:56 PM
Obviously a shot at me.

Yeah?

Patrick Bateman
10-31-2012, 05:04 PM
Obviously a shot at me.

Is it really a "shot" if it's based purely on factual statements? Is it really unfair to challenge the notion of acquiring fairly unreasonable players without speculating on the repercussions of the suggestion?

Tony Cloninger
10-31-2012, 07:38 PM
I think Jeff Keppinger would be reasonable. Good guy to have on the bench and play 3B, 2B, 1B and maybe even LF if needed.

Vottomatic
10-31-2012, 08:05 PM
Is it really a "shot" if it's based purely on factual statements? Is it really unfair to challenge the notion of acquiring fairly unreasonable players without speculating on the repercussions of the suggestion?

Hey, if it gets your rocks off insulting people, have at it. Seems to be alot of people on here who need to insult, make fun of, and attack people. I guess it makes them feel important or superior or something. If that's what you need to do to boost your ego, have at it. Usually comes from people with a low self esteem.

I'll refrain from making any suggestions and leave it to the people that know everything.

Boss-Hog
10-31-2012, 08:11 PM
Get the topic back on track, please.

LincolnparkRed
10-31-2012, 09:20 PM
You mean something like this?

http://www.adambaumgoldgallery.com/steinberg/posters/view_of_new_york.jpg

Always liked that picture. I grew up in Centerville but it explains a lot about New Yorkers

Gallen5862
10-31-2012, 10:41 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Ryan Madson Declines Mutual Option
By Mike Axisa [October 31 at 8:34pm CST]
Ryan Madson has declined his half of a mutual option for 2013, reports Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com. The option was worth $11MM, and he'll instead receive a $2.5MM buyout.

Madson, 32, did not pitch at all in 2012 due to Tommy John surgery after signing a one-year, $8.5MM deal with the Reds last winter. From 2009-2011 he pitched to a 2.78 ERA with 9.6 K/9 and 2.4 BB/9, however. The Phillies have some interest in bringing Madson back for next year, but the right-hander will seek a job closing.

corkedbat
10-31-2012, 11:04 PM
You'd think if a team is willing to pickup their half of the mutual option, but the player declines, the player wouldn't get the buyout.

_Sir_Charles_
10-31-2012, 11:06 PM
You'd think if a team is willing to pickup their half of the mutual option, but the player declines, the player wouldn't get the buyout.

Nah, that'd make sense. We can't have THAT. :p

Patrick Bateman
10-31-2012, 11:16 PM
It was part of the original agreement. Essentially the Reds signed him for 1 year 10M, and including the buyout as part of the mutual option was simply a way of deferring the 2.5M at the end of the season and give the Reds more money upfront to play around with.

In almost all circumstances the mutual option is turned down by one party. I doubt either party thought there was much of a chance of the option being picked up by both sides.

LegallyMinded
10-31-2012, 11:36 PM
MLBTR posted their predictions (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/10/2013-top-50-free-agents-with-predictions-1.html) for the top 50 free agents.

I have to say it's appropriate that it's Halloween, given how scary prediction number 44 is.

Tom Servo
11-01-2012, 12:54 AM
MLBTR posted their predictions (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/10/2013-top-50-free-agents-with-predictions-1.html) for the top 50 free agents.

I have to say it's appropriate that it's Halloween, given how scary prediction number 44 is.It would make no sense for the Reds not to try to resign Madson because he wants to close just to turn around and sign a far worse closer like Valverde.

PuffyPig
11-01-2012, 07:53 AM
Hey, if it gets your rocks off insulting people, have at it. Seems to be alot of people on here who need to insult, make fun of, and attack people. I guess it makes them feel important or superior or something. If that's what you need to do to boost your ego, have at it. Usually comes from people with a low self esteem.

I'll refrain from making any suggestions and leave it to the people that know everything.

Votto, it wasn't a shot at you or anyone else.

It was simply a statement that sugesting that we obtain X,Y,Z star player(s) without mentioning who we would trade for these players, nor how we would handle their payroll implications, isn't particularly helpful.

I think we all know that having Wright at 3B, Trout in CF and Soriano at closer would make the Reds a very good team. So why don't we make this happen?

LoganBuck
11-01-2012, 08:53 AM
What is Melky Cabrera expected to bring? People act like he has to take a one year contract to rebuild his cache with baseball. I doubt he would take a whopping outlay of cash.

Tony Cloninger
11-01-2012, 10:42 AM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Ryan Madson Declines Mutual Option
By Mike Axisa [October 31 at 8:34pm CST]
Ryan Madson has declined his half of a mutual option for 2013, reports Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com. The option was worth $11MM, and he'll instead receive a $2.5MM buyout.

Madson, 32, did not pitch at all in 2012 due to Tommy John surgery after signing a one-year, $8.5MM deal with the Reds last winter. From 2009-2011 he pitched to a 2.78 ERA with 9.6 K/9 and 2.4 BB/9, however. The Phillies have some interest in bringing Madson back for next year, but the right-hander will seek a job closing.


The guy gets to rehab on the Reds dime......and if the Reds actually wanted him to stay.....he refused his half of it? He thinks he can get more money somewhere else after what he just went through?

Boras client....so not much of a surprise.

Gallen5862
11-01-2012, 01:02 PM
The Reds should make the qualyfing offers to keep Madson and Broxton. If they refuse the $13.3 Million qualifying offers the Reds would receive compensation first round picks. If both or one of the players accept the $13.3 Million then the Reds could either keep them or trade them. Bray and other players could be non tendered if necessary.

PuffyPig
11-01-2012, 01:24 PM
The Reds should make the qualyfing offers to keep Madson and Broxton. If they refuse the $13.3 Million qualifying offers the Reds would receive compensation first round picks. If both or one of the players accept the $13.3 Million then the Reds could either keep them or trade them. Bray and other players could be non tendered if necessary.

You think you could trade Broxton or Madson if they had contracts at $13.3M?

I don't think there would be any chance.

And we sure couldn't afford to keep them.

And you can't make qualifying offers to players you obtained during the year, so Broxton would be out anyway.

M2
11-01-2012, 01:44 PM
What is Melky Cabrera expected to bring? People act like he has to take a one year contract to rebuild his cache with baseball. I doubt he would take a whopping outlay of cash.

I was thinking the same thing.

REDREAD
11-01-2012, 02:37 PM
It would make no sense for the Reds not to try to resign Madson because he wants to close just to turn around and sign a far worse closer like Valverde.

I think there's zero chance of the Reds signing Valverde.
It just makes more sense to overpay for Broxton, if need be.
I don't see it happening.. Walt's too smart to make a FA signing like that.

REDREAD
11-01-2012, 02:39 PM
The Reds should make the qualyfing offers to keep Madson and Broxton. If they refuse the $13.3 Million qualifying offers the Reds would receive compensation first round picks..

I think Broxton would quickly accept that offer..which would kill our budget for LF and CF.. It's way too risky to offer Broxton that kind of money. The upside of a potential extra draft pick isn't worth scuttling the 2013 season for.

If it was still "the old rules" system, I would offer Brox arbitration.

Edit.. Also, since Brox was acquired midseason, I think he's ineligible for comp picks, even if the Reds offered him 13.3 million.. maybe someone else can verify this? I think they made that rule to prevent teams from trading for guys and getting draft picks out of them.

Gallen5862
11-01-2012, 02:41 PM
That is correct about Broxton. Madson would be worth trying to make a qualifying article to Madson. If he declined the Reds get the pick. If Madson accepts you have kept part of the bullpen in tact.

thatcoolguy_22
11-01-2012, 04:18 PM
WJ would be crazy to offer Madson a qualifying offer. He would accept. I know he is probably looking for a multiyear deal now, but how much can he get coming off TJ? Nathan got 3/21 (?) and thats the closest I can think of a similar situation. Madson would take his 13 mill this year and following his "bare with me guys as I work through the kinks, its my first year after TJ surgery season," to beat his comparable contract he would have to accept at least 2/9M deal.

Madson will accept the qualifying offer faster than the average drew stubbs at bat.

PuffyPig
11-01-2012, 06:41 PM
That is correct about Broxton. Madson would be worth trying to make a qualifying article to Madson. If he declined the Reds get the pick. If Madson accepts you have kept part of the bullpen in tact.


No chance of them taking a risk that is certain to be accepted, IMO.

He didn't get $13.3M last year, coming off a superb season.

PuffyPig
11-01-2012, 06:42 PM
I think Broxton would quickly accept that offer..which would kill our budget for LF and CF.. It's way too risky to offer Broxton that kind of money. The upside of a potential extra draft pick isn't worth scuttling the 2013 season for.

If it was still "the old rules" system, I would offer Brox arbitration.

Edit.. Also, since Brox was acquired midseason, I think he's ineligible for comp picks, even if the Reds offered him 13.3 million.. maybe someone else can verify this? I think they made that rule to prevent teams from trading for guys and getting draft picks out of them.

I believe I answered your question about 3-4 posts above yours.

Kc61
11-01-2012, 08:20 PM
While I wouldn't mind it if Chapman started next year, removing him from the closer spot is dicey.

I would not overpay Broxton or Madson to be the Reds closer. Broxton is spotty and has trouble working multiple days. Madson is coming off injury.

Broxton is worth having for set up money.

Madson is worth having on a two-year contract that locks him up when he is healthy. Or a discounted one-year contract as a set up man.

The problem with Chapman as a starter is that fans start to come up with inadequate closer alternatives for 2013. We saw a shut down closer last year and I'd like one in 2013.

RedsManRick
11-02-2012, 01:25 AM
While I wouldn't mind it if Chapman started next year, removing him from the closer spot is dicey.

I would not overpay Broxton or Madson to be the Reds closer. Broxton is spotty and has trouble working multiple days. Madson is coming off injury.

Broxton is worth having for set up money.

Madson is worth having on a two-year contract that locks him up when he is healthy. Or a discounted one-year contract as a set up man.

The problem with Chapman as a starter is that fans start to come up with inadequate closer alternatives for 2013. We saw a shut down closer last year and I'd like one in 2013.

Or we just disagree strongly with your notion of "adequate closer". I don't think you need a 1.50 ERA and 15 K/9 to convert 90%+ of your save chances. In fact, Chapman's 38/43 (88%) placed him 15th in MLB behind the likes of dominant closers Brett Myer, Chris Perez and Frank Francisco. Dominant as he was, how many more games would we have won or lost with Chris Perez or Tom Wilhelmson? Who thought Fernando Rodney and Jim Johnson would have two of the great closer seasons of all time?

Point being, as awesome as Chapman was last year, and has awesome, throwing 70 great innings is nowhere close to as hard nor as valuable as 2-3 times that. And the downgrade from from 70 great innings to 70 just pretty good ones, especially when you consider how many of them are not really high leverage, simply isn't all that big in terms of wins and losses.

Or put differently, if Chapman threw even 150 innings of 3.50 ERA baseball, nobody would be clamoring to put him in the closer role. And when you consider that he's got as good a chance of throwing 200 innings of 2.50 ERA as virtually anybody who hasn't done it yet, it strikes me as as a no-brainer unless you have inside knowledge of injury risk or inability to be effective for more than 2 innings at a time.

Kc61
11-02-2012, 02:21 AM
Or we just disagree strongly with your notion of "adequate closer". I don't think you need a 1.50 ERA and 15 K/9 to convert 90%+ of your save chances. In fact, Chapman's 38/43 (88%) placed him 15th in MLB behind the likes of dominant closers Brett Myer, Chris Perez and Frank Francisco. Dominant as he was, how many more games would we have won or lost with Chris Perez or Tom Wilhelmson? Who thought Fernando Rodney and Jim Johnson would have two of the great closer seasons of all time?

Point being, as awesome as Chapman was last year, and has awesome, throwing 70 great innings is nowhere close to as hard nor as valuable as 2-3 times that. And the downgrade from from 70 great innings to 70 just pretty good ones, especially when you consider how many of them are not really high leverage, simply isn't all that big in terms of wins and losses.

Or put differently, if Chapman threw even 150 innings of 3.50 ERA baseball, nobody would be clamoring to put him in the closer role. And when you consider that he's got as good a chance of throwing 200 innings of 2.50 ERA as virtually anybody who hasn't done it yet, it strikes me as as a no-brainer unless you have inside knowledge of injury risk or inability to be effective for more than 2 innings at a time.

Just misses the point entirely. Classic straw man argument.

I didn't say that a closer has to have a great strikeout ratio, or a great ERA, or great velocity, or any particular makeup.

I did say, and I do maintain, that a closer has to be consistently effective in the ninth inning.

We've seen what happens with weak bullpens. It is demoralizing to a team. Blowing leads can tear a ballclub apart. And I believe, strongly, that having a consistently effective closer is very, very, very important.

I have no inside knowledge of Chapman's makeup, but neither do you. I do know that his velocity in single inning appearances does not necessarily translate into an effective seven inning pitcher.

Still, I'm willing to try Chapman as a starter, I've never opposed it, and I don't deny his potential. But the propensity of some posters to assume that a good bullpen will materialize out of the blue is deeply flawed thinking.

I agree that a top notch starter is worth more than a top notch closer. But an experiment at starter with no proven closer is a recipe for disaster.

The Reds have two viable choices. One, to keep Chapman as closer. Two, to put him in the rotation but replace him with an effective, proven, and healthy closer.

The choice of making Chapman a starter and ignoring the bullpen, or assuming the pen will take care of itself, is not viable. It is a losing proposition.

This is a team, it has to cover the early innings AND the late ones. Whatever the benefits of Chapman as a starter, it will ultimately be meaningless if you can't close out the games.

RedsManRick
11-02-2012, 02:46 AM
Still, I'm willing to try Chapman as a starter, I've never opposed it, and I don't deny his potential. But the propensity of some posters to assume that a good bullpen will materialize out of the blue is deeply flawed thinking.


The problem is that your point is fundamentally flawed.

When you say "We've seen what happens with weak bullpens.", you're essentially asserting that, without Chapman or without adding a proven closer, our bullpen would be weak. If you didn't believe this to be the case, there'd be no reason for you to say it. It's the core of your argument. And yet, when you actually look at it, this was a very good bullpen even without Chapman.

Every single reliever with more than 20 IP had an ERA under 3.50. That's 7 guys. A whole bullpen's worth of guys who were above average. Sure, they're likely to regress some. I've certainly argued that Ondrusek will. But as a group, they're likely to regress from great to good. Not from great to "weak".

And that ignores that we have Bray and Masset who should be healthy. And it ignores that we have Todd Redmond and Tony Cigrani who could both be positive contributors. This team does not want for quality bullpen arms.

Yes, taking Chapman out of the bullpen makes it weaker, no doubt. But we don't need anything to "materialize" to have a good bullpen without him. Even without Chapman, the players we already have on the 40 man roster comprise a good bullpen.

We shouldn't let fear of the horrible bullpens of years past that we simply assume anything less than having the best bullpen in baseball is a "losing proposition". Heck, just ask the Giants (3.54 ERA, 8th in NL) and the Tigers (3.79 ERA 10th in the AL) if you have to have a lights out pen to win. Or just ask your fellow Reds fans if they would have traded Chapman the closer for Chapman the starter when Johnny Cueto walked off the mound in Game 1 of the NLDS.

lollipopcurve
11-02-2012, 08:20 AM
If Chapman doesn't work out as a starter, or they can't fashion a workable pen out of others on the roster (which I find unlikely), they can always move him back. The potential payoff of having him pitching well in the rotation is too significant to not give it a shot. Seems like a pretty simple decision to me.

The only reason not to try it, IMO, is if Chapman wants to close.

Kc61
11-02-2012, 09:55 AM
The problem is that your point is fundamentally flawed.

When you say "We've seen what happens with weak bullpens.", you're essentially asserting that, without Chapman or without adding a proven closer, our bullpen would be weak. If you didn't believe this to be the case, there'd be no reason for you to say it. It's the core of your argument. And yet, when you actually look at it, this was a very good bullpen even without Chapman.

Every single reliever with more than 20 IP had an ERA under 3.50. That's 7 guys. A whole bullpen's worth of guys who were above average. Sure, they're likely to regress some. I've certainly argued that Ondrusek will. But as a group, they're likely to regress from great to good. Not from great to "weak".

And that ignores that we have Bray and Masset who should be healthy. And it ignores that we have Todd Redmond and Tony Cigrani who could both be positive contributors. This team does not want for quality bullpen arms.

Yes, taking Chapman out of the bullpen makes it weaker, no doubt. But we don't need anything to "materialize" to have a good bullpen without him. Even without Chapman, the players we already have on the 40 man roster comprise a good bullpen.

We shouldn't let fear of the horrible bullpens of years past that we simply assume anything less than having the best bullpen in baseball is a "losing proposition". Heck, just ask the Giants (3.54 ERA, 8th in NL) and the Tigers (3.79 ERA 10th in the AL) if you have to have a lights out pen to win. Or just ask your fellow Reds fans if they would have traded Chapman the closer for Chapman the starter when Johnny Cueto walked off the mound in Game 1 of the NLDS.

I understand the zeal to have Chapman start, but relying sub 3.50 ERAs as a hallmark of a good bullpen sweeps the issue under the rug. That number may indicate reasonable overall performance -- it does not provide the late inning stoppers a team needs in the pen.

Right now, the Reds have a number of steady middle relievers. (Some not so steady.) Lecure, Arredondo, Simon, Ondrusek. Reliance on Bray and Masset is a dream. Masset wasn't very good in 2011 and missed 2012. Bray is a huge question mark who might even be let go.

They have Marshall to set up. They have Hoover who potentially could pitch in the late innings and might be a partial answer to the problem.

I don't see this group as an acceptable bullpen for a contender. Chapman as closer made a huge difference on this ballclub. Sticking a bunch of "sub-3.50 ERA" guys into the late innings is part of the classic attitude that a bullpen will materialize out of thin air.

I understand the excitement of having Chapman as a starter and, in part, i agree with it.

But ignoring his importance as closer last season and assuming any decent reliever can assume that role is not a good plan.

Plus Plus
11-02-2012, 10:18 AM
The problem is that your point is fundamentally flawed.

When you say "We've seen what happens with weak bullpens.", you're essentially asserting that, without Chapman or without adding a proven closer, our bullpen would be weak. If you didn't believe this to be the case, there'd be no reason for you to say it. It's the core of your argument. And yet, when you actually look at it, this was a very good bullpen even without Chapman.

Every single reliever with more than 20 IP had an ERA under 3.50. That's 7 guys. A whole bullpen's worth of guys who were above average. Sure, they're likely to regress some. I've certainly argued that Ondrusek will. But as a group, they're likely to regress from great to good. Not from great to "weak".

And that ignores that we have Bray and Masset who should be healthy. And it ignores that we have Todd Redmond and Tony Cigrani who could both be positive contributors. This team does not want for quality bullpen arms.

Yes, taking Chapman out of the bullpen makes it weaker, no doubt. But we don't need anything to "materialize" to have a good bullpen without him. Even without Chapman, the players we already have on the 40 man roster comprise a good bullpen.

We shouldn't let fear of the horrible bullpens of years past that we simply assume anything less than having the best bullpen in baseball is a "losing proposition". Heck, just ask the Giants (3.54 ERA, 8th in NL) and the Tigers (3.79 ERA 10th in the AL) if you have to have a lights out pen to win. Or just ask your fellow Reds fans if they would have traded Chapman the closer for Chapman the starter when Johnny Cueto walked off the mound in Game 1 of the NLDS.

Isn't someone who is for moving Chapman to the starting rotation also going to be against moving Cingani, who is coming off of a dominant minor league season, to the bullpen?

And I think that the greater point is almost a subtly implied one, which is that going from Chapman to David Weathers or Chris Perez or whoever is behind door #3 is effectively a lateral move because both convert saves at about the same rate. I fundamentally disagree with this.

And I think that the Tigers, who would have not made the playoffs up until September because of a weak bullpen, namely Valverde, would agree that you need a better bullpen than they had to win. It isn't about having the best bullpen or being unable to win, it is about maximizing assets and looking at the roster of a team that just won 99 games and realizing that some moves might need to be made aren't the drastic ones, like taking a 3.3 win reliever and making him a starter when he hasn't started a game or shown a third pitch to real live batters since 2010 in AAA, if he even did with regularity there.

I also think it is pretty interesting that a lot of posters who grow tired with the fantasy baseball trades for Wright or players of that ilk are often the same posters who want to make Chapman into a starter when he has shown almost nothing as a pitcher that materially separates him from Kimbrel (outside of "he used to start in Cuba"). Sure, I would have felt great if Chapman could have come in and pitched 8 innings after Cueto got hurt in game one. I also would have felt great if Verlander, Felix Hernandez, RA Dickey, Scherzer, Gio Gonzalez, Cy Young, Tom Seaver, Tom Browning, or Johnny Van Der Meer could have come in and pitched for 8 innings too. In the end, that game was a Reds win and the real culprit was in games 3 and 5 where hits suddenly became scarce, especially in key situations.

Sometimes assets need to be protected. Sometimes it is a smart idea to get up from the poker table, regardless of how well you have been doing. I think that moving Chapman to the rotation is a ship that has sailed and now a gamble that doesn't make sense to take, especially given that Cueto, Latos, and Bailey all had stretches of dominance and that Arroyo and Leake are still very serviceable and good in their roles.

Kc61
11-02-2012, 11:21 AM
Keep in mind also that down the stretch last year the backend of the pen included Broxton.

It was Marshall, Broxton, Chapman in the seventh, eighth and ninth. Take Chapman out of the pen, and two of these three are gone (unless Brox re-signs).

Hoover potentially could fill one of the roles, but he has never pitched a full major league season as a late innings reliever.

So, when focusing on Chapman as a starter, which would be a fine experiment, you have to account for those late innings.

Right now, if no Chapman, the Reds late innings are covered by Sean Marshall and potentially JJ Hoover. Seems kind of thin to me, and not where the team wants to be.

marcshoe
11-02-2012, 06:14 PM
I thought temporarily putting Chapman in the bullpen was the experiment.

Gallen5862
11-02-2012, 08:18 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Braves Make Michael Bourn Qualifying Offer
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [November 2 at 5:05pm CST]
The Braves extended a qualifying offer to Michael Bourn, Evan Drellich of MLB.com reports (on Twitter). The free agent center fielder now has one week to accept or decline the offer.


Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#Ce4V8WzVec4Wc618.99

Nationals Make Adam LaRoche Qualifying Offer
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [November 2 at 5:04pm CST]
The Nationals extended a qualifying offer to Adam LaRoche, Evan Drellich of MLB.com reports (on Twitter). The free agent first baseman now has one week to accept or decline the offer.


Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#Ce4V8WzVec4Wc618.99

Cardinals Make Kyle Lohse Qualifying Offer
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [November 2 at 5:01pm CST]
The Cardinals extended a qualifying offer to Kyle Lohse, Jenifer Langosch of MLB.com reports (on Twitter). He now has one week to accept or decline the offer.


Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#Ce4V8WzVec4Wc618.99

Rays Make B.J. Upton Qualifying Offer
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [November 2 at 4:02pm CST]
The Rays extended a qualifying offer to B.J. Upton, Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times reports (on Twitter). The free agent center fielder now has one week to accept or decline the offer.


Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#Ce4V8WzVec4Wc618.99

Red Sox Make David Ortiz Qualifying Offer
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [November 2 at 3:56pm CST]
The Red Sox extended a qualifying offer to David Ortiz, Alex Speier of WEEI.com reports (on Twitter). The free agent designated hitter now has one week to accept or decline the offer.


Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#Ce4V8WzVec4Wc618.99

Soriano, Swisher, Kuroda Obtain Qualifying Offers
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [November 2 at 3:40pm CST]
The Yankees extended qualifying offers to Rafael Soriano, Nick Swisher and Hiroki Kuroda, Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com reports (on Twitter). The players now have one week to accept or decline the offers.


Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#Ce4V8WzVec4Wc618.99

Rangers Make Josh Hamilton Qualifying Offer
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [November 2 at 3:19pm CST]
The Rangers extended a qualifying offer to Josh Hamilton, T.R. Sullivan of MLB.com reports. The free agent outfielder now has one week to accept or decline the offer. Mike Napoli did not get a qualifying offer from Texas.


Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#1XAdiQjDglJs0rsl.99

blumj
11-02-2012, 08:40 PM
Just heard on local CSN, Red Sox and Ortiz agreed on a 2 year $26M deal, plus incentives up to $30M.

Gallen5862
11-02-2012, 08:52 PM
Thats alot for him.

MartyFan
11-03-2012, 12:44 AM
I saw this on MLBTradeRumors

"Agent Scott Boras said there’s no chance of Rick Ankiel returning to the mound, Yahoo’s Tim Brown reports (on Twitter). “He's not pitching," Boras said. It was reported yesterday that Ankiel might be open to pitching again.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#w9BHrMcrmJYEBhpI.99"

Is the pitching crop around baseball so low that a guy who has not been on the mound for several years is contemplating a switch back to the mound???

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/quick-hits-martin-ankiel-young.html

M2
11-03-2012, 02:47 PM
Is the pitching crop around baseball so low that a guy who has not been on the mound for several years is contemplating a switch back to the mound???

Nah, the pitching ranks are the deepest they've been in two decades. Ankiel just can't hit much anymore so he's looking into whether there's anything left in his arm.

westofyou
11-03-2012, 03:39 PM
Nah, the pitching ranks are the deepest they've been in two decades. Ankiel just can't hit much anymore so he's looking into whether there's anything left in his arm.

Rube Bressler should have thought of that

Wonderful Monds
11-03-2012, 04:30 PM
Would anyone want Torii Hunter for a couple year deal in CF? His stats were a lot better than I expected the past few years.

I still also say the Reds should look at Melky Cabrera if he comes cheap as I expect he will.

M2
11-03-2012, 06:26 PM
Would anyone want Torii Hunter for a couple year deal in CF? His stats were a lot better than I expected the past few years.

I still also say the Reds should look at Melky Cabrera if he comes cheap as I expect he will.

I don't know about CF, but I'd be slightly over the moon to get him in LF.

RedsManRick
11-03-2012, 06:44 PM
Would anyone want Torii Hunter for a couple year deal in CF? His stats were a lot better than I expected the past few years.

I still also say the Reds should look at Melky Cabrera if he comes cheap as I expect he will.

He's not a CF anymore, but we could certainly do worse in LF.

Gallen5862
11-03-2012, 06:57 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Athletics Sign Bartolo Colon
By Zach Links [November 3 at 4:15pm CST]
4:15pm: Colon's deal has a base salary of $3MM with a good incentives package, a source tells Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle (via Twitter).

Wonderful Monds
11-03-2012, 08:39 PM
I don't know about CF, but I'd be slightly over the moon to get him in LF.

Yeah, I saw those fielding numbers after that suggestion, and while I'm not UZR's biggest fan, those numbers seem pretty sure and it makes sense considering his age.

Still, yeah, seems like he can still handle the COF pretty well, and those hitting numbers are not bad.

Gallen5862
11-03-2012, 10:15 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/
Marlins Sign Kevin Kouzmanoff & Jordan Smith
By Mike Axisa [November 3 at 6:40pm CST]
Here are the day's minor league signings...

The Marlins have signed Kevin Kouzmanoff to a minor league deal with an invite to Spring Training, reports Juan C. Rodriguez of The Sun Sentinel (on Twitter). The 31-year-old infielder hit .276/.309/.382 in 355 Triple-A plate appearances this year. He hasn't played in the big leagues since 2011.
The Marlins also signed Jordan Smith to a minor league pact with an invite to Spring Training according to Rodriguez. Smith, 26, pitched to a 4.76 ERA with 5.7 K/9 and 2.5 BB/9 in 56 2/3 innings for the Reds' Triple-A affiliate this year. The right-hander posted a 4.94 ERA in 62 relief innings for Cincinnati from 2010-2011.

Vottomatic
11-05-2012, 08:58 AM
Maybe I've simply forgotten past years, but it sure seems like there's alot of action early this offseason.

Benihana
11-05-2012, 03:24 PM
Would anyone want Torii Hunter for a couple year deal in CF? His stats were a lot better than I expected the past few years.

I still also say the Reds should look at Melky Cabrera if he comes cheap as I expect he will.

I was just thinking how this is both a Walt & Dusty-type-of-move. Hunter is a proven vet than can leadoff with an OBP over .350. If they can get him on a one or two year deal for less than or equal to what Ludwick would require, I'd be interested. I'm somewhat surprised the Angels didn't give him a qualifying offer.

Scrap Irony
11-05-2012, 05:13 PM
A Hunter, Bruce, Ichiro OF might prove interesting for next year. Lots of obp, balance across the order, and not too expensive, IMO:

Ichiro CF
Phillips 2B
Votto 1B
Hunter LF
Bruce RF
Frazier 3B
Hanigan C
Cozart SS

CySeymour
11-05-2012, 05:49 PM
A Hunter, Bruce, Ichiro OF might prove interesting for next year. Lots of obp, balance across the order, and not too expensive, IMO:

Ichiro CF
Phillips 2B
Votto 1B
Hunter LF
Bruce RF
Frazier 3B
Hanigan C
Cozart SS

Ichiro's OBP the last two seasons: .310, .307. No thanks.

Benihana
11-05-2012, 05:56 PM
Hunter or Ludwick who would you prefer? I wonder if they could sign both?

What do you think it would cost to land Hunter?

Wonderful Monds
11-05-2012, 07:43 PM
Hunter or Ludwick who would you prefer? I wonder if they could sign both?

What do you think it would cost to land Hunter?

2 yr, 16M maybe?

Wonderful Monds
11-05-2012, 07:43 PM
Also, I think this team is finally in a place where it might want to consider playoff experience in a player's background when making acquisitions.

Vottomatic
11-05-2012, 08:33 PM
2 yr, 16M maybe?

Geez. Hunter batted .313 with a .365 OBP, 92 rbi in 2012. 37 years old. Pretty impressive. And he played in 140 games.

Wonderful Monds
11-05-2012, 08:37 PM
Geez. Hunter batted .313 with a .365 OBP, 92 rbi in 2012. 37 years old. Pretty impressive. And he played in 140 games.

37 years old is right.

Will M
11-05-2012, 08:55 PM
1) Melky in LF. Dave Cameron said Melky might take a 1 year deal for $6-8M in order to reestablish his value.
2) a cheap platoon partner for Stubbs until Billy is ready. I like the Bernadina idea.
3) Chapman to the rotation
4) get a couple of good bullpen arms to replace Chapman & Broxton. I think its easier to get these guys than it is to get a TOR arm.
I'd be fine with Marshall as the closer. I believe he was pretty unlucky early in the season.

I think this would be workable with the Reds payroll limitations

15fan
11-05-2012, 09:05 PM
1) Melky in LF. Dave Cameron said Melky might take a 1 year deal for $6-8M in order to reestablish his value.

That's a steal for a juicing Melky.

Pass if he's back to being the free range organic Melky, though.

gilpdawg
11-05-2012, 09:40 PM
That's a steal for a juicing Melky.

Pass if he's back to being the free range organic Melky, though.

Looking at the numbers, it appears that Melky's 2012 was highly BABIP driven. It's not like he had a huge power spike, so he's regressing no matter what. He's still a useful player.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Wonderful Monds
11-05-2012, 10:35 PM
Yeah. I would put money on Melky not completely falling apart as many believe.

We took in Josh Hamilton once. No reason we can't take in Melky.

M2
11-06-2012, 12:10 AM
Got a feeling Melky might need to take something more like a $2 million contract with incentives if he wants to rebuild his value.

mth123
11-06-2012, 07:18 AM
Got a feeling Melky might need to take something more like a $2 million contract with incentives if he wants to rebuild his value.

If its that low, I'd be up for the Reds giving him a shot. Switch hitter who can hit against both RHP and LHP. He may be a 4th OF without the roids, but looking at the Reds payroll, I'm coming around more and more to the idea that the Reds are going to need to mix and match in the OF.

Can he still play CF? Could he ever really? I was always underwhelmed with Melky on defernse when he was with the Yankees and the steroids would sure seem to explain his bat during his time in KC and SF. Still, if he's cheap enough, he may be able to share CF with Stubbs and free Heisey for a package for something better in LF. Besides, he may still have some of that artificial muscle for a while even if he's off the juice.

PuffyPig
11-06-2012, 09:08 AM
A Hunter, Bruce, Ichiro OF might prove interesting for next year. Lots of obp, balance across the order, and not too expensive, IMO:

Ichiro CF
Phillips 2B
Votto 1B
Hunter LF
Bruce RF
Frazier 3B
Hanigan C
Cozart SS

Ichiro plays RF, not CF.

Benihana
11-06-2012, 01:16 PM
Jim Bowden has an article up where he predicts final contracts for each FA. Relevant to the Reds:

Michael Bourn 5 years, $75MM
BJ Upton 5 years, $70MM
Nick Swisher 3 years, $33MM
Torii Hunter 2 years, $20MM
Kevin Youkilis, 2 years $18MM
Ryan Ludwick, 2 years $13MM
Jonathan Broxton 2 years, $13MM
Ryan Madson 1 year, $7.5MM

Hypothetically, if the Reds could pay $15-$17MM on FA, who would you want?

I'd take one of Hunter/Ludwick/Youkilis - probably in that order, and Madson.

No thanks to Broxton at 2/$13M and a BIG no thanks to Bourn or Upton at those prices.

If the Reds are confident in Marshall or some other in-house option closing, or they want to keep Chapman in that role, I would also consider Swisher at 3 years and $33MM. He could play CF against RHP and LF against LHP, and move to LF permanently once Hamilton is ready. He is also a semi-local guy (WV native and OSU alumni).

bucksfan2
11-06-2012, 03:04 PM
Jim Bowden has an article up where he predicts final contracts for each FA. Relevant to the Reds:

Michael Bourn 5 years, $75MM
BJ Upton 5 years, $70MM
Nick Swisher 3 years, $33MM
Torii Hunter 2 years, $20MM
Kevin Youkilis, 2 years $18MM
Ryan Ludwick, 2 years $13MM
Jonathan Broxton 2 years, $13MM
Ryan Madson 1 year, $7.5MM

Hypothetically, if the Reds could pay $15-$17MM on FA, who would you want?

I'd take one of Hunter/Ludwick/Youkilis - probably in that order, and Madson.

No thanks to Broxton at 2/$13M and a BIG no thanks to Bourn or Upton at those prices.

If the Reds are confident in Marshall or some other in-house option closing, or they want to keep Chapman in that role, I would also consider Swisher at 3 years and $33MM. He could play CF against RHP and LF against LHP, and move to LF permanently once Hamilton is ready. He is also a semi-local guy (WV native and OSU alumni).

I don't have a problem paying that to both Ludwick and Broxton. The only problem I have is it doesn't solve the CF problem. Could I get Victorino or Pagan for around $5M a year?

IMO getting a close is important for next year. It allows them to try Chapman at SP in spring training and if it doesn't work then it gives them one heck of a pen going into the season.

I would like Ludwick back but at what price. I think he proved his worth this season and proved that his bat can still play outside of the NL West.

CF is the tricky position because Hamilton looks to be the heir apparent soon. But the Reds need production out of the leadoff spot and Stubbs and Cozart aren't going to give that to you. If it can down to it I wouldn't be opposed to Pagan in CF with a move to LF when Hamilton is ready.

MartyFan
11-06-2012, 07:44 PM
I don't have a problem paying that to both Ludwick and Broxton. The only problem I have is it doesn't solve the CF problem. Could I get Victorino or Pagan for around $5M a year?

IMO getting a close is important for next year. It allows them to try Chapman at SP in spring training and if it doesn't work then it gives them one heck of a pen going into the season.

I would like Ludwick back but at what price. I think he proved his worth this season and proved that his bat can still play outside of the NL West.

CF is the tricky position because Hamilton looks to be the heir apparent soon. But the Reds need production out of the leadoff spot and Stubbs and Cozart aren't going to give that to you. If it can down to it I wouldn't be opposed to Pagan in CF with a move to LF when Hamilton is ready.



I was actually just thinking about who I WISH the reds would sign...

My list is Pagan for CF...BUT something tells me we are going to see Billy Ball in CF sooner rather than later, Broxton for CLOSER and Anibal Sanchez for the rotation...I would then trade any combo of Arroyo, Leake, Heissy and Stubbs for David Wright and move Chapman into the rotation while Todd Fraizer mans LF.l

NJReds
11-07-2012, 03:20 PM
Jason Bay agrees with Mets on a deal to terminate his contract early and become a Free Agent:

link (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121107&content_id=40193094&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb)

blumj
11-07-2012, 05:44 PM
I was actually just thinking about who I WISH the reds would sign...

My list is Pagan for CF...BUT something tells me we are going to see Billy Ball in CF sooner rather than later, Broxton for CLOSER and Anibal Sanchez for the rotation...I would then trade any combo of Arroyo, Leake, Heissy and Stubbs for David Wright and move Chapman into the rotation while Todd Fraizer mans LF.l
Anibal Sanchez seems like that "under the radar" guy that everyone thinks they're going to be able to get with a not so huge contract, but, since everyone's thinking it, I suspect it's going to take a larger contract than everyone imagines.

MartyFan
11-07-2012, 06:05 PM
Anibal Sanchez seems like that "under the radar" guy that everyone thinks they're going to be able to get with a not so huge contract, but, since everyone's thinking it, I suspect it's going to take a larger contract than everyone imagines.

I never think of the money on these things...If the Reds can give Joey and Brandon the kind of money they just did, there's more available or at least there better be to put a team around those two.

I think the game and salaries is shifting again to where even small market teams are going to put a huge chunk on the line with players...the Reds just happen to be the forefront of the business model.

blumj
11-07-2012, 07:35 PM
Yeah, I wasn't really thinking in relation to the Reds in particular, I just expect him to end up with one of those contracts where everyone looks up and goes "Wow, Anibal Sanchez got that much for that many years?" because of stuff you see around.

corkedbat
11-08-2012, 12:22 AM
Loved the thought of Swisher at one time, but since he and bourn both received qualifying offers, they're now off my list. A bit of a risk, but I'd consider 2 for $13M for Ludwick. I'd also think about Mason for a year at $7.5 (plus an option) if the medicos clear him and Price works him out. That's about $14M - I'd give Pagan (peferrably) or Victorino 2 yrs $10M. I'd also consider something (MiL) incentive-laden for Sizemore if they can determine he's healthy.

REDREAD
11-08-2012, 02:40 AM
7.5 million is too much for me to pay Madson while he recovers from TJ.
Too much of an unknown.

M2
11-08-2012, 02:33 PM
Hypothetically, if the Reds could pay $15-$17MM on FA, who would you want?

I've always been a Torii Hunter fan. He'd also be a good culture fit - upbeat, plays hard.

Crumbley
11-08-2012, 02:50 PM
Would you flip Bruce to left if Hunter signed?

Wonderful Monds
11-08-2012, 03:07 PM
Loved the thought of Swisher at one time, but since he and bourn both received qualifying offers, they're now off my list. A bit of a risk, but I'd consider 2 for $13M for Ludwick. I'd also think about Mason for a year at $7.5 (plus an option) if the medicos clear him and Price works him out. That's about $14M - I'd give Pagan (peferrably) or Victorino 2 yrs $10M. I'd also consider something (MiL) incentive-laden for Sizemore if they can determine he's healthy.

I think 2/13 for Ludwick is incredibly reasonable. Also, if Swisher only took 3 years as rumored, I think he would be very worth it.

M2
11-08-2012, 03:21 PM
Would you flip Bruce to left if Hunter signed?

Nyet. The entire point of Hunter would be to play in an OF with Bruce.

redsmetz
11-08-2012, 03:27 PM
Nyet. The entire point of Hunter would be to play in an OF with Bruce.

I think he meant to move Bruce to left field and put Hunter in right.

M2
11-08-2012, 03:47 PM
I think he meant to move Bruce to left field and put Hunter in right.

Man, that was bad reading on my part. Sorry about that Crumbley.

I'd probably keep Bruce in RF,and I suspect Hunter would have no issue playing LF.

Gallen5862
11-08-2012, 10:09 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Minor Moves: Bray, Valdez, Rondon, Hernandez
By Mark Polishuk [November 8 at 4:38pm CST]
Here are a few of the day's minor transactions...

Left-hander Bill Bray and infielder Wilson Valdez have elected to become free agents, according to MLB.com's transactions page. With Valdez entering his second year of arbitration-eligibility and Bray his third, both players were seen as non-tender candidates by MLBTR's Tim Dierkes following their disappointing seasons for the Reds. Valdez, 34, posted a .463 OPS in 208 plate appearances as a backup infielder. Bray was limited to just 14 games due to groin and back injuries, but he'll surely draw interest from teams looking for lefty relief help; Bray posted a 2.98 ERA and recorded 44 strikeouts over 48 1/3 innings for Cincinnati in 2011.

redsmetz
11-09-2012, 02:54 PM
Interesting piece from mlbtraderumors.com regarding this year's free agent class and changes in the demand for them. Mentions the Reds as an example of signing top players to long term agreements before they hit free agency.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/adjusting-expectations-for-free-agency.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Will M
11-09-2012, 07:43 PM
not sure if this has been posted.
Reds interested in Bourn.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/danny-knobler/20905378/reds-still-looking-for-a-leadoff-man-have-interest-in-bourn

one would think that the team may have some cash to spend if they are interested in Bourn

M2
11-10-2012, 01:20 AM
not sure if this has been posted.
Reds interested in Bourn.

I doubt the Reds will get him, but Bourn strikes me as the poster boy for what the Reds want in CF.

Superdude
11-10-2012, 01:48 AM
not sure if this has been posted.
Reds interested in Bourn.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/danny-knobler/20905378/reds-still-looking-for-a-leadoff-man-have-interest-in-bourn

one would think that the team may have some cash to spend if they are interested in Bourn

This just doesn't make sense.

Wonderful Monds
11-10-2012, 02:41 AM
Here's a wild idea:

What if the Reds brought in Rich Harden to compete in the bullpen?

HokieRed
11-10-2012, 09:53 AM
This just doesn't make sense.

Bourn to CF, Hamilton to 2b, Phillips to 3b, Frazier to LF? Or, if he can play it, Hamilton to SS. Frazier to 3b, Phillips stays put, deal involving but not featuring an SS for a LF?

blumj
11-10-2012, 10:36 AM
The Red Sox sign C David Ross for 2 years $6.2M.

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal

mth123
11-10-2012, 03:56 PM
Lots of talk in this thread about giving big money to Ryan Madson.




Joakim Soria and Ryan Madson will not be ready to pitch at the start of the season. Both right-handers are coming off Tommy John surgery.



http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/rosenthals-latest-upton-rays-youkilis-dodgers.html

I still say $1 Million Guaranteed with incentives, max. If he can get more, some other team can pay him to start out in extended spring and rehabbing in AAA for 6 weeks and then spending 2 to 3 months imitating a batting tee as he rounds into form.

Gallen5862
11-10-2012, 10:39 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Central Notes: Matsui, Astros, Reds, Indians, Victorino
By Zach Links [November 10 at 8:04pm CST]
News and notes out of the Central divisions..


Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#SjLBwdddiaS1g4KP.99

Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (via Twitter) notes that the Reds are looking into two relievers coming off of Tommy John surgery in Joakim Soria and Ryan Madson. Soria will be out until May while Madson should be set to open the season.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#SjLBwdddiaS1g4KP.99

mth123
11-10-2012, 10:49 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Central Notes: Matsui, Astros, Reds, Indians, Victorino
By Zach Links [November 10 at 8:04pm CST]
News and notes out of the Central divisions..


Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#SjLBwdddiaS1g4KP.99

Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (via Twitter) notes that the Reds are looking into two relievers coming off of Tommy John surgery in Joakim Soria and Ryan Madson. Soria will be out until May while Madson should be set to open the season.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#SjLBwdddiaS1g4KP.99

Thanks for that. Contradicts what was posted and attributed to Rosenthal yesterday. Another interesting tidbit in that link




Free agent Shane Victorino is on the radar for the Reds and Indians, tweets ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick. The Rangers and Red Sox are also among the clubs looking into Victorino as they look to improve their outfield situation.

Wonderful Monds
11-12-2012, 05:35 AM
MLBTR speculated Shaun Marcum might sign a one year deal to rebuild his value and go after a bigger one next year. For some reason, the Brewers had absolutely no interest in keeping him.

He's pretty much a lock to put up a mid 3 ERA at this point. Would anyone like to pick him up for a year?

Tony Cloninger
11-12-2012, 12:07 PM
MLBTR speculated Shaun Marcum might sign a one year deal to rebuild his value and go after a bigger one next year. For some reason, the Brewers had absolutely no interest in keeping him.

He's pretty much a lock to put up a mid 3 ERA at this point. Would anyone like to pick him up for a year?

I would but then you wonder why they would not...so you think it must be an injury?

Benihana
11-12-2012, 12:19 PM
I would but then you wonder why they would not...so you think it must be an injury?

Good pitcher that can never stay healthy. I'd be interested in a one-year deal with good incentives if we trade Bailey or Leake in an Upton deal. He could be a good complement to Chapman from an innings standpoint.

Without trading Bailey or Leake, I don't see how there is room for Marcum.

Tom Servo
11-14-2012, 01:36 PM
Torii Hunter 2 year/$26 million contract with Detroit.

Gallen5862
11-15-2012, 02:20 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/olneys-latest-broxton-guthrie-hunter-mariners.html

Olney's Latest: Broxton, Guthrie, Hunter, Mariners

There has been substantial interest in Broxton so far, and it appears he could receive one of the largest contracts of the relief market.

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/olneys-latest-broxton-guthrie-hunter-mariners.html#HdlQGCQbzKeOFP6H.99

Benihana
11-15-2012, 05:57 PM
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2012/11/15/jocketty-shoots-down-some-rumors/

Love this. No Bourn, no trading Cozart (but didn't exempt DiDi), no Bruce extension.

Yes signing a closer to move Chapman to the rotation (I just hope it's not Broxton).
Yes getting a leadoff man as top priority.
Yes they talked to Hunter but the money was too much.

Didn't rule out trading for Upton, Ellsbury, Fowler or Choo. Also didn't rule out signing Sizemore or Youkilis.

I love the way Jocketty is thinking about this offseason.

edabbs44
11-15-2012, 10:37 PM
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2012/11/15/jocketty-shoots-down-some-rumors/

Love this. No Bourn, no trading Cozart (but didn't exempt DiDi), no Bruce extension.

Yes signing a closer to move Chapman to the rotation (I just hope it's not Broxton).
Yes getting a leadoff man as top priority.
Yes they talked to Hunter but the money was too much.

Didn't rule out trading for Upton, Ellsbury, Fowler or Choo. Also didn't rule out signing Sizemore or Youkilis.

I love the way Jocketty is thinking about this offseason.

He didn't rule trading for some of those guys but did he even mention it? Is he allowed to talk about players on other teams?

blumj
11-16-2012, 03:00 PM
Blue Jays signing Melky Cabrera for 2 years $16 million.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/blue-jays-to-sign-melky-cabrera.html

Tom Servo
11-16-2012, 03:08 PM
Blue Jays signing Melky Cabrera for 2 years $16 million.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/blue-jays-to-sign-melky-cabrera.html
Wow. Blue Jays are all in.

mattfeet
11-17-2012, 11:04 PM
Marlins sign Juan Pierre.

PuffyPig
11-18-2012, 12:45 AM
Marlins sign Juan Pierre.

I hope they don't trade him to the Reds.

osuceltic
11-18-2012, 10:15 AM
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2012/11/15/jocketty-shoots-down-some-rumors/

Love this. No Bourn, no trading Cozart (but didn't exempt DiDi), no Bruce extension.

Yes signing a closer to move Chapman to the rotation (I just hope it's not Broxton).
Yes getting a leadoff man as top priority.
Yes they talked to Hunter but the money was too much.

Didn't rule out trading for Upton, Ellsbury, Fowler or Choo. Also didn't rule out signing Sizemore or Youkilis.

I love the way Jocketty is thinking about this offseason.

Read it again. He didn't rule out trading Cozart either.

Honestly, I would take everything Walt says with a grain of salt. The guy does not share his thinking with the public -- nor should he.

LvJ
11-18-2012, 12:34 PM
The Royals are listening to offers for Wil Myers (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=myers-006wil&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.typepad.com). I wonder what it would take... *sigh*

oneupper
11-18-2012, 01:17 PM
The Royals are listening to offers for Wil Myers (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=myers-006wil&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.typepad.com). I wonder what it would take... *sigh*

He looks like a great prospect. Why are the Royals shopping him?

Benihana
11-18-2012, 01:28 PM
The Royals are listening to offers for Wil Myers (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=myers-006wil&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.typepad.com). I wonder what it would take... *sigh*

I heard they wouldn't deal him for Shields or Hellickson. Not sure if the Reds could/would want to top that.

I'd do Leake straight up, or their choice of any 2-3 prospect outside of Hamilton and Stephenson. Not sure that gets it done though. I'd hesitate on moving Bailey or Chapman (their likely ask) for a prospect.

LvJ
11-18-2012, 01:51 PM
He looks like a great prospect. Why are the Royals shopping him? Pitching. Pitching. Pitching.

I doubt the Reds have what it would take to acquire him, but I would at least check in.

If Bailey+Stubbs+Cozart or Didi+top prospect could bring us Myers and Aaron Crow + Alcides Escobar, I would do it. But I bet the asking price is much higher. :(

Crow replaces Chapman in the pen. Chapman to the rotation. Escobar at SS. Myers LF. Billy Ham in CF.

Scrap Irony
11-18-2012, 03:03 PM
The Royals are listening to offers for Wil Myers (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=myers-006wil&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.typepad.com). I wonder what it would take... *sigh*

I'm guessing Kansas City is looking for pitching depth and upside. So a Leake, Lotzkar, and Corcino for Myers and a middling prospect would be ideal for the Royals. Perhaps the Reds could add Drew Stubbs as a fourth OF/ possible CFer for another middling prospect.

Myers as a LF for this season and beyond looks great.

Power, good defense-- yes, please.

blumj
11-18-2012, 04:19 PM
My guess is that name only came up from the Royals end in connection with the name Price.

klw
11-19-2012, 09:42 AM
My guess is that name only came up from the Royals end in connection with the name Price.

The Royals want the Reds pitching coach? I like Bryan Price but if I am the Reds I'd swap him for Myers and not look back. ;)

Edd Roush
11-19-2012, 03:01 PM
I'm guessing Kansas City is looking for pitching depth and upside. So a Leake, Lotzkar, and Corcino for Myers and a middling prospect would be ideal for the Royals. Perhaps the Reds could add Drew Stubbs as a fourth OF/ possible CFer for another middling prospect.

Myers as a LF for this season and beyond looks great.

Power, good defense-- yes, please.

I would pull the trigger on that deal every day and twice on Sunday. I would give them Cingrani intead of Corcino, but wouldn't really want to give up both. I would actually trade either Cingrani or Corcino over Stephenson. Maybe it's just that Stephenson's warts haven't been exposed yet, but I just think he has the chance to be really special.

Vottomatic
11-19-2012, 09:32 PM
I'm guessing Kansas City is looking for pitching depth and upside. So a Leake, Lotzkar, and Corcino for Myers and a middling prospect would be ideal for the Royals. Perhaps the Reds could add Drew Stubbs as a fourth OF/ possible CFer for another middling prospect.

Myers as a LF for this season and beyond looks great.

Power, good defense-- yes, please.

Geez. A young, under control major league starting pitcher, and 2 pretty good triple A pitching prospects, for one triple A minor league outfielder who hit in a hitters league (PCL)?

Why do we always value other teams minor leaguers more than our own?

I'd be interested in acquiring Myers too. But it seems like somewhat of a lopsided trade to me. Seems like Bailey by himself for Myers and another KC prospect should be in demand. Or Leake and a middling prospect straight up for Myers.

Spitball
11-19-2012, 09:53 PM
Geez. A young, under control major league starting pitcher, and 2 pretty good triple A pitching prospects, for one triple A minor league outfielder who hit in a hitters league (PCL)?

Why do we always value other teams minor leaguers more than our own?

I'd be interested in acquiring Myers too. But it seems like somewhat of a lopsided trade to me. Seems like Bailey by himself for Myers and another KC prospect should be in demand. Or Leake and a middling prospect straight up for Myers.

I doubt the Royals trade Myers unless they are offered a "lopsided trade." He is generally a top 5 prospect in most rankings of minor league prospects. Also, he may have put up good numbers in a hitters' league but was hitting in double A before being promoted.

Bailey might get him, but I doubt it. Leake and a middling prospect would not cut it for Myers.

Will M
11-19-2012, 11:05 PM
a concern with Myers is his very high K rate. He may be the next Jay Bruce or he may not pan out. Bailey alone seems an overpay

Spitball
11-19-2012, 11:32 PM
a concern with Myers is his very high K rate. He may be the next Jay Bruce or he may not pan out. Bailey alone seems an overpay

He doesn't have an extreme history of Ks. Last year he had 140 in 590 plate appearances, and that was probably his worst year in that aspect. He is a maturing hitter.

Revering4Blue
11-19-2012, 11:42 PM
All indications are that Shane Victorino is looking for a three-year deal. While I'd be on board with Victorino as a short-term solution as previous posters have suggested, three years seems like too much of a risk with Billy Hamilton on the horizon.

RedlegJake
11-20-2012, 12:12 PM
Send leake, corcino or cingrani, 2 other prospects for myers.
Dangle zack or Didi, pry up a good bp arm or prospect
At other position like 3b
I'd stick with Stubbs/Hamilton plan as a devils choice and hope bh is ready
By mid year at least.
Broxton 2 at 13mm, Madsen 1@7.5? Sure. Either deal but
I bet both cost more.
A risk I take though is Chappy to rotation. Everything, imo, hinges on having even more
dominant starting and Aroldis, Cueto, Bailey, Latos is an incredible
top 4 with Bronson doing his swan song at 5.
If AC flops which I doubt then flip him back to pen - its
Easier to go from rotation to pen than vice versa. Closer
is overrated. Every stat and pct about closers shows this
but impressions from emotion packed 9th is hard to beat
with quantification, no matter how thorough.
Walt can find a closer, that I am sure of. Chapman is a chance at
a great, not just good rotation. I take that risk.

REDREAD
11-20-2012, 12:14 PM
All indications are that Shane Victorino is looking for a three-year deal. While I'd be on board with Victorino as a short-term solution as previous posters have suggested, three years seems like too much of a risk with Billy Hamilton on the horizon.

Yea, I agree.. three years is out of the question for me.

It's looking more likely the Reds will focus on LF and pitching.
Stubbs/Heisey is the stopgap until Billy H arrives.
I'm actually ok with that if we can't find a 1 year CF stopgap at a reasonable price.

Edd Roush
11-20-2012, 12:22 PM
Geez. A young, under control major league starting pitcher, and 2 pretty good triple A pitching prospects, for one triple A minor league outfielder who hit in a hitters league (PCL)?

Why do we always value other teams minor leaguers more than our own?

I'd be interested in acquiring Myers too. But it seems like somewhat of a lopsided trade to me. Seems like Bailey by himself for Myers and another KC prospect should be in demand. Or Leake and a middling prospect straight up for Myers.

Just because Myers hit in the PCL does not mean that he cannot be a good hitter. Sure, the PCL inflates his numbers, but he has hit at every stop even when he has been young for most stops. Myers has by far more value than Lotzkar, Leake or Corcino by themselves. We all know that you have to give up something to get something. We have a wealth of pitching right now and could really use a cleanup bat. There is no one in the minors who could step in on Opening Day and hit cleanup for the Reds like Myers. Furthermore, making this trade would allow the Reds to allocate whatever is left in the payroll for bullpen help and centerfield since Myers will play for so cheap in 2013.

There is no room for Leake in the rotation in 2013 if Chapman moves to the rotation. Furthermore, Lotzkar is oft-injured and blocked and Corcino is blocked and his peripherals declined drastically in 2012.

This is a great trade for the Reds. I hope Walt is thinking along these lines.

Vottomatic
11-20-2012, 03:32 PM
Just because Myers hit in the PCL does not mean that he cannot be a good hitter. Sure, the PCL inflates his numbers, but he has hit at every stop even when he has been young for most stops. Myers has by far more value than Lotzkar, Leake or Corcino by themselves. We all know that you have to give up something to get something. We have a wealth of pitching right now and could really use a cleanup bat. There is no one in the minors who could step in on Opening Day and hit cleanup for the Reds like Myers. Furthermore, making this trade would allow the Reds to allocate whatever is left in the payroll for bullpen help and centerfield since Myers will play for so cheap in 2013.

There is no room for Leake in the rotation in 2013 if Chapman moves to the rotation. Furthermore, Lotzkar is oft-injured and blocked and Corcino is blocked and his peripherals declined drastically in 2012.

This is a great trade for the Reds. I hope Walt is thinking along these lines.

As I said. Reds fans tend to undervalue our prospects and overvalue everyone else's.

I'd like to have Myers. But I'm not convinced we should overpay for him.

Vottomatic
11-20-2012, 03:34 PM
I think the free agent market has gone bonkers again this year with ridiculous payouts and the number of years.

I don't see Walt doing much in free agency, other than getting some scraps when the signings are complete. If something is going to be improved, it will have to be by trade at this point.

Nathan
11-20-2012, 03:47 PM
As I said. Reds fans tend to undervalue our prospects and overvalue everyone else's.



Dude, I really think you have that backwards.

LoganBuck
11-20-2012, 04:17 PM
All indications are that Shane Victorino is looking for a three-year deal. While I'd be on board with Victorino as a short-term solution as previous posters have suggested, three years seems like too much of a risk with Billy Hamilton on the horizon.

If he gets that fine, good for him, but this has the makings of a mid to late January deal. You know the type, older player, coming off an off year, signs for one year plus a mutual option.

Gallen5862
11-20-2012, 05:46 PM
Bob Dutton @Royals_Report #Royals designate RHPs Mazzaro & Volstad, LHP Verdugo, C’s Moore and Pena, 1B C. Robinson & OF D. Robinson. 40-man roster at 40.



Bob Dutton @Royals_Report
#Royals select contracts of LHPs Dwyer, Joseph, Lamb, Marks & Montgomery & RHP Gutierrez.

Gallen5862
11-20-2012, 05:46 PM
Should the Reds consider claiming Volstad?

Tom Servo
11-20-2012, 06:07 PM
Should the Reds consider claiming Volstad?
Nah.

Benihana
11-20-2012, 06:45 PM
As I said. Reds fans tend to undervalue our prospects and overvalue everyone else's.


x2 I think you have this backwards.

People around here go up in arms about guys that are throw-ins to deals (ie Josh Roenicke, Donnie Joseph, JC Sulbaran) and have an absolute fit if we consider trading an actual prospect (Zach Stewart), unless it's an asset like Latos coming back.

Look at the reaction to the Rolen and Broxton trades. Some people wouldn't trade Billy Hamilton for anyone. Guess what? Myers is a better prospect than Hamilton.

Spitball
11-20-2012, 06:52 PM
x2 I think you have this backwards.

People around here go up in arms about guys that are throw-ins to deals (ie Josh Roenicke, Donnie Joseph, JC Sulbaran) and have an absolute fit if we consider trading an actual prospect (Zach Stewart), unless it's an asset like Latos coming back.

Look at the reaction to the Rolen and Broxton trades. Some people wouldn't trade Billy Hamilton for anyone. Guess what? Myers is a better prospect than Hamilton.

Exactly. Most fans overvalue their hometeam's prospects. Myers is a better prospect than anyone in the Reds' system, and I base that on independant and unbiased rankings like the one below.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/

Vottomatic
11-20-2012, 07:27 PM
Yet over half our 25 man roster is filled with homegrown drafted and developed talent.

The Reds farm system is doing a great job. I wouldn't be so quick to give on talent that could fill a need. I have no problem in trading guys who are blocked, such as Didi.

Arroyo will be gone after 2013. Cingrani or Corcino will be needed.

And plenty of guys who lit up the minors failed in the majors.

It just seems that many are saying it's engraved in stone that Myers will be a star.

Wonderful Monds
11-20-2012, 08:27 PM
Yet over half our 25 man roster is filled with homegrown drafted and developed talent.

The Reds farm system is doing a great job. I wouldn't be so quick to give on talent that could fill a need. I have no problem in trading guys who are blocked, such as Didi.

Arroyo will be gone after 2013. Cingrani or Corcino will be needed.

And plenty of guys who lit up the minors failed in the majors.

It just seems that many are saying it's engraved in stone that Myers will be a star.

Yet the fact that he might not be one doesn't mean that he can't be one, and the possibility that he might be a star is what you're actually paying for.

Spitball
11-20-2012, 10:25 PM
It just seems that many are saying it's engraved in stone that Myers will be a star.

No, that is not what many are saying. We are saying that Myers is projected as having a very good chance of being a successful major leaguer based on minor league statistics and unbiased projections by national experts. Although I respect your opinion, I do not think your evaluation of the Reds' prospects is unbiased.

Vottomatic
11-21-2012, 08:35 AM
No, that is not what many are saying. We are saying that Myers is projected as having a very good chance of being a successful major leaguer based on minor league statistics and unbiased projections by national experts. Although I respect your opinion, I do not think your evaluation of the Reds' prospects is unbiased.

I guess I find this message board inconsistent.

Last season, me and someone else said the Reds should go after Adam Eaton as a leadoff guy. Eaton pretty much had a solid minor league career with a consistently good batting average and OBP. The naysayers said he was hitting in the PCL, a hitter's league, and that his numbers were inflated.

And again, I'd take Myers in a heartbeat. But the proposals I've seen are overpayment.

nate
11-21-2012, 10:17 AM
I guess I find this message board inconsistent.

Why would you expect consistency from a group of individuals each with their own opinion?

To me, that would be pretty boring.

But the threads would be shorter!

:cool:

Edd Roush
11-21-2012, 10:57 AM
I guess I find this message board inconsistent.

Last season, me and someone else said the Reds should go after Adam Eaton as a leadoff guy. Eaton pretty much had a solid minor league career with a consistently good batting average and OBP. The naysayers said he was hitting in the PCL, a hitter's league, and that his numbers were inflated.

And again, I'd take Myers in a heartbeat. But the proposals I've seen are overpayment.

I can't speak of the whole board, but you are right in saying that I personally view Adam Eaton and Wil Myers differently, but it is not due to inconsistency at all.

First, Wil Myers has a much better pedigree/scouting profile than Adam Eaton. Wil was a third round pick out of high school, while Adam came from an unheralded program in the 19th round.

Second, while the career slash lines of Adam Eaton and Wil Myers are similar, you have to remember that Eaton was roughly three years older per stop than Myers. That makes a major difference.

Also, the unbiased prospect experts may be wrong occasionally, but they have way more access to inside information than you or I. The fact that they have Wil Myers ranked as a top 30 prospect in the game before this year and then he tore it up this year, means he is likely a top 10 prospect in the game again. Eaton has never been ranked on a major publication's prospect list.

The question to me about Myers is not if he will hit, but when. The Reds are built to win today. Can he have a Kearns/Dunn like rookie year and OPS 900+ his rookie year or will it take a few years like Jay Bruce? The Reds need immediate results. That is why I would offer any package first for Stanton before Myers, but they both fill the same hole and allow the Reds the payroll flexibility to fill in the bullpen and maybe improve the leadoff spot.

RedlegJake
11-21-2012, 12:29 PM
I was one who wanted Eaton but as a diffrrent player than Myers, Eatons entire value rests on obp
He will never have Myers power. Plus Eaton has a wide split which
Wasnt ideal. Myers is vastly better. Eaton, I believed last year might have
Helped in leadoff but once Lud began raking there was no place for him. At the
Time I wanted Eaton Ryan was still scuffling. I would take
Myers over Lud in a heartbeat tho. Cost and future upside
Are all on Myers side. As a top ten MLB prospect I dont view these proposals as overpay at all.

MikeThierry
11-21-2012, 12:55 PM
Question to everyone. What is a good indication that a prospect will be likely to succeed? Is it a low strikeout rate like Oscar Taveras has (11% I believe) or is it a guy that has a ton of power like Myers does? Is there any one stat I can look at and say "this guy is going to be great"? What is something that translates to the MLB level?

MikeThierry
11-21-2012, 01:09 PM
Wait, his name isn't Oscar Taveras, it's Minor League Guy

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31751_162-57404617-10391697/minor-league-guy-broadcast-graphic-doesnt-bother-with-names/

Vottomatic
11-21-2012, 02:37 PM
I was one who wanted Eaton but as a diffrrent player than Myers, Eatons entire value rests on obp
He will never have Myers power. Plus Eaton has a wide split which
Wasnt ideal. Myers is vastly better. Eaton, I believed last year might have
Helped in leadoff but once Lud began raking there was no place for him. At the
Time I wanted Eaton Ryan was still scuffling. I would take
Myers over Lud in a heartbeat tho. Cost and future upside
Are all on Myers side. As a top ten MLB prospect I dont view these proposals as overpay at all.

Apples to Oranges.

I was interested in Eaton as a replacement for Stubbs. High OBP and good batting average. Totally different than Myers.

Myers would be a cleanup-type hitter, and plant himself in LF. We haven't had a solution for LF or cleanup yet.

If everyone is so certain Myers will be a stud, then.....
....... Considering Reds management wants Chapman in the rotation, one of either Leake or Bailey gets supplanted.
........I'd rather they take Leake, but with Bailey's strong season, and especially is very strong impressive finish, I think Bailey would be the most doable, having raised his value tremendously.

And I don't see why you'd have to trade anything with him. You're trading a solid, improving major league starting pitcher, still somewhat under control, still young, for a top prospect.

Bailey for Myers.

Edd Roush
11-21-2012, 02:44 PM
Apples to Oranges.

I was interested in Eaton as a replacement for Stubbs. High OBP and good batting average. Totally different than Myers.

Myers would be a cleanup-type hitter, and plant himself in LF. We haven't had a solution for LF or cleanup yet.

If everyone is so certain Myers will be a stud, then.....
....... Considering Reds management wants Chapman in the rotation, one of either Leake or Bailey gets supplanted.
........I'd rather they take Leake, but with Bailey's strong season, and especially is very strong impressive finish, I think Bailey would be the most doable, having raised his value tremendously.

And I don't see why you'd have to trade anything with him. You're trading a solid, improving major league starting pitcher, still somewhat under control, still young, for a top prospect.

Bailey for Myers.

If you are trying to win now, why are you dealing your third best starter? Even then, Bailey is not that interesting to the Royals because he is under team control for only two more years and is going to be much more expensive those two years than Leake will. Leake is under control for three years and will be cheaper. Plus, Corcino may be able to step into their rotation sometime during 2013 and Lotzkar is there for depth as well. Corcino, Lotzkar and Leake is the kind of package that the Royals would be looking for because it is major league ready pitching and more of it than just Bailey. The Reds would be trading from a pitching surplus to fill a major hole with a high upside talent for a very low $ cost. Seems like a great deal for both sides.

Bailey just isn't what the Royals are likely looking for.

Vottomatic
11-21-2012, 03:01 PM
If you are trying to win now, why are you dealing your third best starter? Even then, Bailey is not that interesting to the Royals because he is under team control for only two more years and is going to be much more expensive those two years than Leake will. Leake is under control for three years and will be cheaper. Plus, Corcino may be able to step into their rotation sometime during 2013 and Lotzkar is there for depth as well. Corcino, Lotzkar and Leake is the kind of package that the Royals would be looking for because it is major league ready pitching and more of it than just Bailey. The Reds would be trading from a pitching surplus to fill a major hole with a high upside talent for a very low $ cost. Seems like a great deal for both sides.

Bailey just isn't what the Royals are likely looking for.

And Arroyo has to be replaced after next season and you've just traded away his potential replacements. And inexpensive has to be considered since it's the Reds.

If Bailey is our third best starter, and Leake might be the odd man out if Chapman were moved to the rotation, why would KC want Leake over Bailey? makes no sense to me.

Bailey trending upwards. Leake had a season trending downwards.

Sure, give them Leake instead. If they are that stupid, let them be.

_Sir_Charles_
11-21-2012, 03:09 PM
And Arroyo has to be replaced after next season and you've just traded away his potential replacements. And inexpensive has to be considered since it's the Reds.

If Bailey is our third best starter, and Leake might be the odd man out if Chapman were moved to the rotation, why would KC want Leake over Bailey? makes no sense to me.

Bailey trending upwards. Leake had a season trending downwards.

Sure, give them Leake instead. If they are that stupid, let them be.

He's not suggesting Leake instead of Bailey. He's suggesting Leake, Corcino & Lotzkar instead of Bailey.

Edd Roush
11-21-2012, 03:22 PM
And Arroyo has to be replaced after next season and you've just traded away his potential replacements. And inexpensive has to be considered since it's the Reds.

If Bailey is our third best starter, and Leake might be the odd man out if Chapman were moved to the rotation, why would KC want Leake over Bailey? makes no sense to me.

Bailey trending upwards. Leake had a season trending downwards.

Sure, give them Leake instead. If they are that stupid, let them be.

What indication has Arroyo given that next year will be his last in Cincinnati? Arroyo has taken a considerable liking to Cincinnati (of course still behind Boston), but he definitely enjoys his celebrity status here. Furthermore, his style of pitching is the kind that ages well. I am not the biggest Bronson fan on this board, but I will give credit where credit is due and Arroyo pitched well above my expectations last year. I expect him to be a solid bottom the rotation starter again in 2013 & I think that we would certainly be the most likely team for him again in 2014. I would say there is a better chance that he is in Cincinnati's rotation in 2014 than he is not.

Even if he is not, the Reds would still have Cingrani waiting in the wings and who knows who else is going to develop throughout all of 2013. Sure, we are trading away depth, but my proposed deal would still allow the Reds to have backup plans and some depth, just not as much.

As I stated in my last post, it is not that KC would want Leake straight up more than Bailey, it's that they want lots of pitching that is major league ready and Corcino, Leake and Lotzkar could hypothetically fill three rotation spots for cheap where Bailey would be more expensively filling one rotation spot when the Royals aren't going to compete for anything in 2013 anyways.

PuffyPig
11-21-2012, 03:26 PM
Question to everyone. What is a good indication that a prospect will be likely to succeed? Is it a low strikeout rate like Oscar Taveras has (11% I believe) or is it a guy that has a ton of power like Myers does? Is there any one stat I can look at and say "this guy is going to be great"? What is something that translates to the MLB level?


I think if anyone really knew that they'd be a GM, and a successful one at that.

It's never that easy, or everyone would be doing it.

Vottomatic
11-21-2012, 04:21 PM
What indication has Arroyo given that next year will be his last in Cincinnati? Arroyo has taken a considerable liking to Cincinnati (of course still behind Boston), but he definitely enjoys his celebrity status here. Furthermore, his style of pitching is the kind that ages well. I am not the biggest Bronson fan on this board, but I will give credit where credit is due and Arroyo pitched well above my expectations last year. I expect him to be a solid bottom the rotation starter again in 2013 & I think that we would certainly be the most likely team for him again in 2014. I would say there is a better chance that he is in Cincinnati's rotation in 2014 than he is not.

Even if he is not, the Reds would still have Cingrani waiting in the wings and who knows who else is going to develop throughout all of 2013. Sure, we are trading away depth, but my proposed deal would still allow the Reds to have backup plans and some depth, just not as much.

As I stated in my last post, it is not that KC would want Leake straight up more than Bailey, it's that they want lots of pitching that is major league ready and Corcino, Leake and Lotzkar could hypothetically fill three rotation spots for cheap where Bailey would be more expensively filling one rotation spot when the Royals aren't going to compete for anything in 2013 anyways.

I like Arroyo. And I'm probably in the minority.

My comment simply was based on his contract being over after 2013.

While I'd like to see the Reds sign his rubber arm, I think the contracts of Votto, BP, and the impending extensions of the starting rotation and other players in the near future will impede being able to re-sign Bronson. Just my opinion. Therefore, a cheap farm system developed Reds pitching prospect, such as Corcino or Cingrani, is probably the replacement for Arroyo.

Edd Roush
11-21-2012, 04:28 PM
I like Arroyo. And I'm probably in the minority.

My comment simply was based on his contract being over after 2013.

While I'd like to see the Reds sign his rubber arm, I think the contracts of Votto, BP, and the impending extensions of the starting rotation and other players in the near future will impede being able to re-sign Bronson. Just my opinion. Therefore, a cheap farm system developed Reds pitching prospect, such as Corcino or Cingrani, is probably the replacement for Arroyo.

Yes, a cheap replacement for Arroyo, if needed, would be nice. We would still have Cingrani and the rest of the farm system minus Lotzkar and Corcino. We have pitching depth for the first time in a long time. I believe the Reds should trade some of that pitching depth to fill a major hole. That is my point.

Wonderful Monds
11-21-2012, 06:27 PM
On an unrelated note, recent AL Cy Young award winner Zach Stewart was just DFA'd by the Red Sox.

Vottomatic
11-21-2012, 07:04 PM
On an unrelated note, recent AL Cy Young award winner Zach Stewart was just DFA'd by the Red Sox.

If the Reds sign him to a minor league contract, does that mean the Reds officially won the Scott Rolen trade? I'm sure they'll be a thread about it. ;)

Gallen5862
11-21-2012, 07:59 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/


Scott Rolen has told the Reds he may play next season, but he isn't ready to make a final decision tweets Stark. The team wants him back in some role.

Benihana
11-21-2012, 08:20 PM
On an unrelated note, recent AL Cy Young award winner Zach Stewart was just DFA'd by the Red Sox.

Wow! Not everyday you can pick up a guy who's going to win multiple Cy Youngs off the waiver wire! Go get 'em Walt :p

marcshoe
11-21-2012, 10:31 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/


Scott Rolen has told the Reds he may play next season, but he isn't ready to make a final decision tweets Stark. The team wants him back in some role.

I don't have a problem with that. I had been wondering if he'd be invited to Spring Training as a special instructor, at least.

camisadelgolf
11-21-2012, 10:52 PM
Question to everyone. What is a good indication that a prospect will be likely to succeed? Is it a low strikeout rate like Oscar Taveras has (11% I believe) or is it a guy that has a ton of power like Myers does? Is there any one stat I can look at and say "this guy is going to be great"? What is something that translates to the MLB level?
One stat? No. But here are the three most important things in a hitting prospect for me:

Age - the younger for the level, the better
A 22-year-old in AAA with a .750 OPS is likely a better prospect than a 26-year-old with an .850 OPS in the same league.

BB to K ratio - the more walks and less strikeouts, the better
Few walks and many strikeouts is a big red flag and indicates the player will likely struggle against more advanced pitching.

Isolated power - the higher, the better
Good contact and plate discipline won't get you very far if you can't drive the ball.

Also, it's important to note whether the player's numbers are inflated by the Pacific Coast League since it's such a notorious hitter's league.

Superdude
11-21-2012, 10:57 PM
I don't have a problem with that. I had been wondering if he'd be invited to Spring Training as a special instructor, at least.

I figured he'd hang em up. Honestly, he was pretty decent down the stretch last year. Frazier in left and a platoon of Rolen/H-Rod might be a decent option if Walt can't find a left fielder.

PuffyPig
11-22-2012, 04:11 PM
I figured he'd hang em up. Honestly, he was pretty decent down the stretch last year.


Whe Votto went down and many felt we'd slip hard in the standings, Rolen came back and (effectively) took his place, and he, Frazier and Ludwick all OPS'ed about .900 and carried us well into the lead.

Wonderful Monds
11-25-2012, 08:43 PM
Reds looking at Upton?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/bj-upton-rumors-sunday.html

Benihana
11-25-2012, 08:51 PM
Reds looking at Upton?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/bj-upton-rumors-sunday.html

Ugh what a tease. Was hoping this was for Justin. No interest in BJ, he's a glorified (and expensive) Stubbs.

Wonderful Monds
11-25-2012, 09:00 PM
Ugh what a tease. Was hoping this was for Justin. No interest in BJ, he's a glorified (and expensive) Stubbs.

Not that crazy about the Bossman either, but I would almost guarantee the Reds are the mystery 3rd team.

mth123
11-25-2012, 09:36 PM
Not that crazy about the Bossman either, but I would almost guarantee the Reds are the mystery 3rd team.

I think I have a better shot with Kate Upton than the Reds have with BJ. I'm guessing Philly, and if I had to guess, I'd say the Rangers are the mystery team..

lollipopcurve
11-25-2012, 09:55 PM
I'd be very happy if they signed BJ Upton. Don't think they'll do it, but I think the best may be ahead for BJ.

Benihana
11-25-2012, 10:50 PM
I'd be very happy if they signed BJ Upton. Don't think they'll do it, but I think the best may be ahead for BJ.

.315 OBP the last four years including .298 last year. Please tell me how that helps the Reds, especially with a $75MM price tag??

Benihana
11-25-2012, 11:42 PM
Not that crazy about the Bossman either, but I would almost guarantee the Reds are the mystery 3rd team.


I fear you're right but hope you're wrong

757690
11-25-2012, 11:59 PM
.315 OBP the last four years including .298 last year. Please tell me how that helps the Reds, especially with a $75MM price tag??

He's an outstanding fielder and base runner with power. His price tag is waaaaaaay too high, but he's an above average player in his prime. I agree the Reds need more OBP, but it's not like this guy won't help the team win.

Nathan
11-26-2012, 12:23 AM
He's an outstanding fielder and base runner with power. His price tag is waaaaaaay too high, but he's an above average player in his prime. I agree the Reds need more OBP, but it's not like this guy won't help the team win.

:wave: Drew Stubbs.

M2
11-26-2012, 12:55 AM
The Nats strike me as Upton's best fit.

Superdude
11-26-2012, 01:17 AM
:wave: Drew Stubbs.

:wave: In 2010.

camisadelgolf
11-26-2012, 02:16 AM
.315 OBP the last four years including .298 last year. Please tell me how that helps the Reds, especially with a $75MM price tag??
In the leadoff spot, Reds hitters put up .208/.254/.327/.581 this season. Upton would be a significant upgrade over that.

lollipopcurve
11-26-2012, 08:01 AM
.315 OBP the last four years including .298 last year. Please tell me how that helps the Reds, especially with a $75MM price tag??

He's had some big OBP years too. I realize the trend is downward, but he's still young, and playing in GABP, in the middle of the Reds lineup would transform his offensive game, I think.

Don't really care about the money -- it's not like they'd be slashing payroll elsewhere to make Upton fit.

Very doubtful it happens, and the rumor itself may be completely false, but as others have said this player is an immediate upgrade who still has a lot of upside.

Benihana
11-26-2012, 09:43 AM
He's had some big OBP years too. I realize the trend is downward, but he's still young, and playing in GABP, in the middle of the Reds lineup would transform his offensive game, I think.

Don't really care about the money -- it's not like they'd be slashing payroll elsewhere to make Upton fit.

Very doubtful it happens, and the rumor itself may be completely false, but as others have said this player is an immediate upgrade who still has a lot of upside.

The last time he had a good OBP, subprime mortgages were a good asset to buy. Reds need a leadoff hitter, Upton can't help there, and a lot of his so-called value is tied to a position that Hamilton should be playing by next year at the latest. Please pass Walt (although I do like him better than Bourn).

Vottomatic
11-26-2012, 10:09 AM
I think the Reds should just stand pat unless they can get a young, under control, LFer who could bat cleanup such as Myers or Stanton. I can't see them adding alot of payroll. And I don't see anyone out there that really fits. It seems like alot of teams are trying to unload bad contracts.

Kc61
11-26-2012, 10:13 AM
I think the Reds should just stand pat unless they can get a young, under control, LFer who could bat cleanup such as Myers or Stanton. I can't see them adding alot of payroll. And I don't see anyone out there that really fits. It seems like alot of teams are trying to unload bad contracts.

Are you saying stand pat with Ludwick?

Or stand pat with no starting LF, but using bench players?

The idea that they should go into next season with Stubbs, Heisey, and XPaul in LF and CF is, well, disturbing.

Vottomatic
11-26-2012, 10:17 AM
Are you saying stand pat with Ludwick?

Or stand pat with no starting LF, but using bench players?

The idea that they should go into next season with Stubbs, Heisey, and XPaul in LF and CF is, well, disturbing.

Yeah, I guess I assumed they could re-sign Ludwick.

Honestly, I'd rather have Willingham, if we have to get a veteran.

My dream would be to get a Myers or a Stanton, like so many other teams. ;)

jhu1321
11-26-2012, 10:17 AM
Are you saying stand pat with Ludwick?

Or stand pat with no starting LF, but using bench players?

The idea that they should go into next season with Stubbs, Heisey, and XPaul in LF and CF is, well, disturbing.

He's holding out for Myers or Stanton.

It's going to be a ling off-season holding out for that.

Vottomatic
11-26-2012, 10:21 AM
Are you saying stand pat with Ludwick?

Or stand pat with no starting LF, but using bench players?

The idea that they should go into next season with Stubbs, Heisey, and XPaul in LF and CF is, well, disturbing.

I still didn't state it correctly.

I kinda of wish we could simply re-sign Ludwick because we don't have to give up any prospects.

I usually don't wince at trading prospects but as I said on another thread, I really think this upcoming season will tell us where Hamilton, Corcino, and Cingrani stand in terms of their major league future. Even Gregorius for that matter.

With Arroyo's 2014 status unresolved, we will need a young starter.

Vottomatic
11-26-2012, 10:22 AM
He's holding out for Myers or Stanton.

It's going to be a ling off-season holding out for that.

I take it that's Chinese for "long"? :laugh:

Benihana
11-26-2012, 10:38 AM
:wave: In 2010.

less 30 OBP points. Kind of a big deal.

mdccclxix
11-26-2012, 11:58 AM
BJ Upton seems like a guy that would be able to adjust and develop again into an even better hitter. When you look at his raw tools, it's not a bad consideration, even with the low OBP, because of all the xbh he produces. However, the cost is likely too high, IMO, unless payroll is going to 110 million within 2-3 years. I'd like to keep Latos and be able to extend Chapman/Cueto later on as well. I just can't see a major FA signing without payroll going up further and longer than anyone has seriously stated it could.

traderumor
11-26-2012, 12:46 PM
And we'll apparently use Upton as our center fielder, even though he's only played RF in the majors, according to a Sun Deck idea ;)

M2
11-26-2012, 01:31 PM
Evan Longoria extends through 2023 - http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8676611/evan-longoria-tampa-bay-rays-agree-100-million-extension

Gallen5862
11-27-2012, 12:39 AM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#HpVO3Mc8JcCtQp5r.99

Giants Likely To Non-Tender Brian Wilson
By Steve Adams [November 26 at 8:47pm CST]
Brian Wilson has saved 171 games for the Giants dating back to 2006, but now, following his Tommy John surgery earlier this year, it appears likely that he'll be non-tendered, according to Henry Schulman of the San Francisco Chronicle.

As Schulman notes, teams must pay arbitration-eligible players at least 80 percent of their previous salary, which would mean the minimum offer the Giants can make Wilson is $6.8MM. That's a hefty price tag for a closer coming off Tommy John, even if he was elite at his peak. The Giants would like to non-tender Wilson and re-sign him to a one-year deal with a lower base salary, but Wilson isn't as open to that scenario.


Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#F9P9gyvoxPHxPCDu.99

mth123
11-27-2012, 03:40 AM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#HpVO3Mc8JcCtQp5r.99

Giants Likely To Non-Tender Brian Wilson
By Steve Adams [November 26 at 8:47pm CST]
Brian Wilson has saved 171 games for the Giants dating back to 2006, but now, following his Tommy John surgery earlier this year, it appears likely that he'll be non-tendered, according to Henry Schulman of the San Francisco Chronicle.

As Schulman notes, teams must pay arbitration-eligible players at least 80 percent of their previous salary, which would mean the minimum offer the Giants can make Wilson is $6.8MM. That's a hefty price tag for a closer coming off Tommy John, even if he was elite at his peak. The Giants would like to non-tender Wilson and re-sign him to a one-year deal with a lower base salary, but Wilson isn't as open to that scenario.


Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#F9P9gyvoxPHxPCDu.99

Wilson's surgery date was April 19th. I'd guess he won't be ready to appear on the big league roster until June or so. He's likely to be in the "first year back, not all the way back to top form" mode for all of 2013. Can't blame the Giants for passing on paying him $7 Million. Almost identical situation to Ryan Madson (surgery date 4/11) and Joakin Soria (4/2). Its why I hope the Reds pass on them as well unless its a real cheap deal for less than $1 Million guaranteed in 2013. Sign a guy ike that, and you'll still need a closer for 2013 IMO. See the Rangers deal with Joe Nathan and the fact that Neftali Feliz had to be their anchor in the pen for all of Nathan's first season.

Tom Servo
11-27-2012, 11:50 AM
Scott Feldman gets $6 million from the Cubs. The market is getting ridiculous again after a few years of not rewarding mediocre players with gabs of money.

Edd Roush
11-27-2012, 05:37 PM
Scott Feldman gets $6 million from the Cubs. The market is getting ridiculous again after a few years of not rewarding mediocre players with gabs of money.

Dave Cameron does not agree with your assertion in his article.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/cubs-sign-scott-feldman-land-another-bargain/

His peripherals seem solid and he probably could be sold high to a contender at the deadline if he is "luckier" next year and maintains his great K:BB ratio.

Tom Servo
11-27-2012, 06:00 PM
It's not that Feldman is bad, but rather that I would have thought $3-4 million would be more than enough to land him.

RedsManRick
11-27-2012, 06:18 PM
Scott Feldman gets $6 million from the Cubs. The market is getting ridiculous again after a few years of not rewarding mediocre players with gabs of money.

Pay for roughly 1 win for 1 year is hardly a risk. That said, I'd be shocked if he finishes the year in Cubbie blue. Come June/July, some contender will need a guy to fill a rotation spot and 100 innings from a vet with a 4.40 ERA is suddenly worth a B prospect.

Tom Servo
11-29-2012, 09:38 PM
Looks like the Pirates are about to pay Russell Martin a buttload of money to basically be a rich man's Miguel Olivo.

mattfeet
11-29-2012, 10:04 PM
Looks like the Pirates are about to pay Russell Martin a buttload of money to basically be a rich man's Miguel Olivo.

I thought the same thing. Heck of a lot of money for a backup quality catcher.

LoganBuck
11-29-2012, 10:07 PM
Looks like the Pirates are about to pay Russell Martin a buttload of money to basically be a rich man's Miguel Olivo.

http://aintnogod.com/ipb/uploads/gallery/album_17/gallery_298_17_1836.gif

Gallen5862
11-30-2012, 06:56 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/


National League Non-Tenders
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [November 30 at 8:13pm CST]
Here are today’s National League non-tenders. All decisions must be in by 11pm CDT tonight. Be sure to track all tender decisions using MLBTR's Non-Tender Tracker. Related resources include our list of non-tender candidates, our projected arbitration salaries and our arbitration eligibles series.

The Cubs have non-tendered Ian Stewart, Jaye Chapman, and Zach Putnam according to MLB.com's Carrie Muskat (on Twitter).
The Padres have non-tendered left-hander Juan Oramas, the team announced. He had Tommy John surgery this summer and is expected to miss the start of next season.
The Mets also non-tendered Andres Torres and Manny Acosta, Anthony DiComo of MLB.com reports (on Twitter). Mike Pelfrey has been informed he'll be non-tendered by the Mets, Adam Rubin of ESPNNewYork.com reports (on Twitter). The Mets were expected to non-tender Pelfrey.
The Braves will non-tenderJair Jurrjens and Peter Moylan.
The Phillies plan to non-tender Nate Schierholtz, ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick reports (on Twitter).
The Pirates will non-tender Jeff Karstens, Rob Biertempfel of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reports (on Twitter). Technically the Pirates are designating Karstens for assignment, Michael Sanserino of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports (on Twitter).
The Brewers have non-tendered left-hander Manny Parra, Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports (on Twitter).
Mike Axisa contributed to this post.


Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#Qj1fbKhvIrWo11Uq.99

Gallen5862
11-30-2012, 06:57 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/


American League Non-Tenders
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [November 30 at 6:40pm CST]
Here are today’s American League non-tenders. All decisions must be in by 11pm CDT tonight. Be sure to track all tender decisions using MLBTR's Non-Tender Tracker. Related resources include our list of non-tender candidates, our projected arbitration salaries and our arbitration eligibles series.

The Athletics have non-tendered Jermaine Mitchell, the team announced. Mitchell was designated for assignment earlier this week.
The Red Sox have non-tendered Rich Hill, Ryan Sweeney, and Scott Atchison, the team announced. Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports had the Sweeney news earlier (on Twitter) while Rob Bradford of WEEI.com had the Atchison news.
The Indians announced they non-tendered Jack Hannahan, Rafael Perez and Chris Seddon
The White Sox announced that they've non-tendered right-hander pitcher Anthony Carter and infielder Dan Johnson.
The Royals announced that they won't tender outfielder Derrick Robinson a contract for 2013 (Twitter link). Robinson has no MLB experience so he wasn't arbitration eligible.
The Tigers announced that they will non-tender Daniel Schlereth. The left-hander was limited to six appearances this past season, which he mostly spent on the disabled list with shoulder tendinitis. Schlereth was not yet arbitration eligible.

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#MUOSewRpVOldOiWy.99

LegallyMinded
11-30-2012, 10:34 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/


American League Non-Tenders
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [November 30 at 6:40pm CST]
Here are today’s American League non-tenders. All decisions must be in by 11pm CDT tonight. Be sure to track all tender decisions using MLBTR's Non-Tender Tracker. Related resources include our list of non-tender candidates, our projected arbitration salaries and our arbitration eligibles series.


The Red Sox have non-tendered Rich Hill, Ryan Sweeney, and Scott Atchison, the team announced. Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports had the Sweeney news earlier (on Twitter) while Rob Bradford of WEEI.com had the Atchison news.
/#MUOSewRpVOldOiWy.99[/url]

I wonder if the Reds would have any interest in Ryan Sweeney as a cheap stop-gap to Hamilton in center. He has very little power, but does have a career .338 OBP, which would represent a decent upgrade over what the Reds got out of the position last year.

Gallen5862
11-30-2012, 11:31 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Nationals Non-Tender John Lannan
By Mike Axisa [November 30 at 9:28pm CST]
The Nationals have non-tendered John Lannan, reports Bill Ladson of MLB.com (on Twitter). The left-hander was projected to earn $5MM during his third trip through arbitration this winter according to Matt Swartz.

Lannan, 28, made only six starts for Washington this year. He pitched to a 4.13 ERA with 4.7 K/9 and 3.9 BB/9 in 32 2/3 innings while spending most of the season in Triple-A despite a hefty $5MM salary. Lannan posted a 4.30 ERA with 5.2 K/9 and 3.0 BB/9 while in the minors.


Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#CFxQISAqBcCgTi4L.99

*BaseClogger*
12-01-2012, 02:14 AM
I wonder if the Reds would have any interest in Ryan Sweeney as a cheap stop-gap to Hamilton in center. He has very little power, but does have a career .338 OBP, which would represent a decent upgrade over what the Reds got out of the position last year.

I'd just as soon roll the dice on Andres Torres. He's a better fielder, but I'm not sure how much is left in the bat.

I'd also give Jack Hannahan a look if Rolen doesn't return. He's a strong fielder, bats LH, and had a pretty good offensive season in part-time duty in 2011...

westofyou
12-01-2012, 02:19 AM
Giants non tender Brian Wilson

LoganBuck
12-01-2012, 08:48 AM
Rich Hill was non tendered by the Red Sox.

Lefty Reliever? Check
Likely Cheap? Check
Effective Enough? Check
Not a member of AARP? Check

lollipopcurve
12-01-2012, 08:51 AM
Rich Hill was non tendered by the Red Sox.

Lefty Reliever? Check
Likely Cheap? Check
Effective Enough? Check
Not a member of AARP? Check

Arm dangling by a string? Check!

Gorzellany and Parra would be better gets as LH options out of the pen, IMO.

Vottomatic
12-01-2012, 11:07 AM
What about signing Jurrjens to a minor league deal and see if Ted Power and the Reds can figure out if it's a mechanical thing and fix it, or if he simply is done.

I'd love to sign Brian Wilson, but he lives on the West Coast. I'm sure if it's not the Giants, the Dodgers or Angels will overpay for him.

Gallen5862
12-01-2012, 11:44 AM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Reds Non-Tender Then Re-Sign Phipps & Negron
By Mike Axisa [December 1 at 8:23am CST]
The Reds non-tendered both Denis Phipps and Kris Negron prior to last night's deadline, reports MLB.com's Mark Sheldon. Both players then re-signed with the club on minor league contracts with invitations to Spring Training.

_Sir_Charles_
12-01-2012, 02:55 PM
I'd love to sign Brian Wilson, but he lives on the West Coast. I'm sure if it's not the Giants, the Dodgers or Angels will overpay for him.

The only way I'd consider Wilson is if the Reds re-instituted their old facial hair policy. I really don't want to see that monstrosity of a beard in the clubhouse. Ugh!

Tom Servo
12-05-2012, 03:32 PM
Eric Chavez to Arizona
Jason Bay to Seattle
Country Kepp to Chicago (AL)

Vottomatic
12-05-2012, 03:46 PM
The only way I'd consider Wilson is if the Reds re-instituted their old facial hair policy. I really don't want to see that monstrosity of a beard in the clubhouse. Ugh!

If they sign Wilson, maybe they sign ZZ Top as the stadium band. :p :thumbup: