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View Full Version : Jason Bay Released by Mets



Edd Roush
11-07-2012, 03:15 PM
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mets-part-ways-with-jason-bay

I think he is worth at least a spring training invite to see if he still has any gas left.

kaldaniels
11-07-2012, 03:21 PM
He would not be my first,second, or third choice but I'd keep my eye on him. SI.com had an article today about the surplus of OF in free agency. Quite a few above average, yet non all-star, OF on the market. Exactly what the Reds could hope for. I would love to know what Angel Pagan sought.

Wonderful Monds
11-07-2012, 03:22 PM
If Jeremy Hermida was worth signing to a minor league contract, Jason Bay definitely is.

camisadelgolf
11-07-2012, 03:34 PM
I'd rather sign Jason Bay to a minor league contract than Jonny Gomes to a major league contract.

757690
11-07-2012, 03:49 PM
Bay agreed to his buyout because he believes he can get a major league contract above the league minimum. He's not signing anywhere on a minor league deal.

Brutus
11-07-2012, 03:56 PM
Bay agreed to his buyout because he believes he can get a major league contract above the league minimum. He's not signing anywhere on a minor league deal.

I disagree. He agreed to the buyout because he knew the Mets weren't going to play him so he might as well see if anyone else wants him. He's getting paid either way, so there was no reason not to agree to it. With that being said, I happen to think Bay is finished and won't be relevant with anyone this year. Not against giving him a minor league deal and hoping for a miracle, though.

redsmetz
11-07-2012, 03:56 PM
Bay agreed to his buyout because he believes he can get a major league contract above the league minimum. He's not signing anywhere on a minor league deal.

You're likely correct, but I'm guessing the market will determine that for him. Perhaps it will be there. Frankly, Jocketty's given out some like that that even had an option year or a two year deal that wasn't very expensive even if you cut the guy the second year, hasn't he?

WildcatFan
11-07-2012, 04:36 PM
I'd absolutely give him a shot. Reminds me a lot of Ryan Ludwick, honestly, but he'd be significantly cheaper. He hit 36 homers three years ago, can get on base, could use the famous GABP boost. If he stays healthy, he's as good a Comeback POY candidate as anyone.

PuffyPig
11-07-2012, 05:09 PM
I'd also give him a shot, he could discover magic at GABP for a year or so.

Kc61
11-07-2012, 05:40 PM
Forget Bay. Sign Ludwick and worry about CF from outside the organization for 2013.

hebroncougar
11-07-2012, 05:50 PM
How bad is Bay defensively? I really have no idea.

camisadelgolf
11-07-2012, 06:26 PM
How bad is Bay defensively? I really have no idea.
Shows good hustle, gets concussed a lot.

757690
11-07-2012, 06:59 PM
You're likely correct, but I'm guessing the market will determine that for him. Perhaps it will be there. Frankly, Jocketty's given out some like that that even had an option year or a two year deal that wasn't very expensive even if you cut the guy the second year, hasn't he?

Good call. Bay could sign a minor league deal, if the money is still there, like in a buyout or option. It's always about the money.

GADawg
11-07-2012, 08:46 PM
i kind've like the idea...I like Ludwick but can't help but wondering if he was just having a "surge" knowing the end could be near. Bay has to be due the same kind of surge if he still has it in him at all.

kaldaniels
11-07-2012, 10:17 PM
Ryan Ludwick 2.2 WAR in 2010-11
Bay -0.1 WAR in 11-12

Narratives are similar but performance has not been.

Edd Roush
11-08-2012, 08:43 AM
Forget Bay. Sign Ludwick and worry about CF from outside the organization for 2013.

If we were the Yankees, yes we'd re-sign Ludwick, Broxton, Madson and trade for Wright. However, even given the attendence/playoff sales boost, we still have limited resources. I think we can get a left fielder at below market value (I don't necessarily want this guy to be Bay) for three reasons. First, the market is flooded driving down guys values, second, most guys want to play for a contender and Cincinnati definitely has a contender next year and finally others saw what GABP did for Ludwick's performance last year, they might want to be on a similar one year deal so they can cash in like Ludwick is going to this off-season.

I really like Ryan Ludwick and would not be upset if we did re-sign him. I just think there is a good chance that we could get an average to above average left fielder to sign at below market value due to the three factors I listed above.

Plus Plus
11-08-2012, 08:54 AM
Ryan Ludwick 2.2 WAR in 2010-11
Bay -0.1 WAR in 11-12

Narratives are similar but performance has not been.

Bay fell off of a fungible cliff upon heading to the Mets, and I think he might have lost it with the bat. Bay's ISOp and HR/FB fell off dramatically in 2010, and stayed down in 2011 and 2012. In 2012, Bay was also hindered by a super-low BABIP, making it look even worse than it was. Ludwick's story was one about changing approach once he went to bigger ballparks, and let's not forget that he wasn't necessarily signed to be the starting LF- he took over that mantle with a hot streak in early June.

I think Bay could be an interesting Ludwick-in-2011 level reclamation project in the chance that he hasn't lost it and instead the Mets simply messed up his approach a la Ludwick, but unless he could be had for the 2.5m or whatever Ludwick was signed for, he isn't worth pursuing.

Chip R
11-08-2012, 09:47 AM
It's tempting. He sure used to kill the Reds when he was in PIT. But that was a few years ago.

KoryMac5
11-08-2012, 09:53 AM
Bay's struggles were two fold, injuries and a ball park that swallowed up his bat. I think he would be a guy who sounds a lot like who we got last yr on the cheap in Ludwick.

Kc61
11-08-2012, 10:10 AM
If we were the Yankees, yes we'd re-sign Ludwick, Broxton, Madson and trade for Wright. However, even given the attendence/playoff sales boost, we still have limited resources. I think we can get a left fielder at below market value (I don't necessarily want this guy to be Bay) for three reasons. First, the market is flooded driving down guys values, second, most guys want to play for a contender and Cincinnati definitely has a contender next year and finally others saw what GABP did for Ludwick's performance last year, they might want to be on a similar one year deal so they can cash in like Ludwick is going to this off-season.

I really like Ryan Ludwick and would not be upset if we did re-sign him. I just think there is a good chance that we could get an average to above average left fielder to sign at below market value due to the three factors I listed above.

Let's forget about the long list of Broxton, Madson, David Wright, Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth. Let's just focus on Ludwick.

The idea that the Reds cannot afford Ryan Ludwick for a starting position is inconceivable to me. This is not an all-star, not a near-all star. He is a pretty good player. The Red should be able to sign him for a two-year deal.

I can understand the "we're not the Yankees" mantra when it comes to a David Wright. But Ryan Ludwick?

If the Reds don't like Ludwick's game, well, then they should let him go. If he is overpricing himself, yes, they should let him go.

But he seems to me as a good, reasonable, choice for left field. He's not a luxury item, the Reds should be able to work something with him if they still like his game.

Jason Bay would be a high risk, high reward gamble. I'd prefer a deal with Ludwick, but whatever.

Edd Roush
11-08-2012, 11:19 AM
Let's forget about the long list of Broxton, Madson, David Wright, Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth. Let's just focus on Ludwick.

The idea that the Reds cannot afford Ryan Ludwick for a starting position is inconceivable to me. This is not an all-star, not a near-all star. He is a pretty good player. The Red should be able to sign him for a two-year deal.

I can understand the "we're not the Yankees" mantra when it comes to a David Wright. But Ryan Ludwick?

If the Reds don't like Ludwick's game, well, then they should let him go. If he is overpricing himself, yes, they should let him go.

But he seems to me as a good, reasonable, choice for left field. He's not a luxury item, the Reds should be able to work something with him if they still like his game.

Jason Bay would be a high risk, high reward gamble. I'd prefer a deal with Ludwick, but whatever.

My point is not that the Reds cannot afford Ryan Ludwick, but rather the Reds may be better served to use the money that Ludwick will get in free agency by acquiring another outfielder who value isn't so high after a big year especially considering we have holes in the bullpen and in centerfield. Again, I would not mind re-signing Ludwick. I just don't think we are in a position where we need to overpay and we need to understand the limitation of our resources.

Crumbley
11-08-2012, 01:48 PM
If he'd take ten bucks to come in and compete for a job, sure.

Kc61
11-08-2012, 02:48 PM
My point is not that the Reds cannot afford Ryan Ludwick, but rather the Reds may be better served to use the money that Ludwick will get in free agency by acquiring another outfielder who value isn't so high after a big year especially considering we have holes in the bullpen and in centerfield. Again, I would not mind re-signing Ludwick. I just don't think we are in a position where we need to overpay and we need to understand the limitation of our resources.

The left fielder on the team is likely the cleanup hitter in the starting lineup. He is an important offensive piece.

What I always liked about Ludwick is that he seemed adequate to fill that role, yet was not a big name, not a high salaried guy.

Hard for me to name a comparable or better LFer who will come much cheaper.

If this were a bench player or middle reliever then I'd be open to low cost gambles. But given the role the LFer plays in the lineup, given the team's makeup, I want Ludwick or better, which means some expenditure of funds will be necessary.

Vottomatic
11-08-2012, 02:53 PM
Bay's decline? I'd surmise possibly PED's back then, and no more when his decline began.

I'm starting to consider more and more the Upton option. Reasonable contract for a young player whose best years SHOULD BE, but might not be, ahead of him.

Patrick Bateman
11-08-2012, 03:30 PM
Not big on Bay. On one side, I think hitting wise Ludwick is a good comp. Similar type of situation Bay is in that Ludwick was in last year. I could see Bay coming into Cincy and putting up an .850 OPS.

On the other side, he's an atrocious fielder limiting his overall upside. He's going to need to be that .850 OPS bat to be a thing. Ludwick on the other hand is a more servicable fielder at the position and the Reds didn't need to entirely bank on the offensive turnaround to add some value. For that reason I don't find the risk on Bay that appealing as he could be a replacement level player more easily than he could be a valuable component.

If you can bring him in cheaply as a competition player, I think it's a good fit, but certainly not as 'the' solution to the LF hole.

Superdude
11-08-2012, 04:19 PM
If you can bring him in cheaply as a competition player, I think it's a good fit, but certainly not as 'the' solution to the LF hole.

He's interesting for sure, but I still make Ludwick the main target. Bay may be comparable to Ludwick pre-Cincy, but pinning our hopes on the same kind of turnaround is risky. Especially with Ludwick serving a crucial role batting behind Votto.

Scrap Irony
11-08-2012, 07:41 PM
I'd gamble on him.

Fairly cheap, I'd think, with massive upside.

mth123
11-08-2012, 09:23 PM
I'm thinking Bay's best option is the Yomiuri Giants or the Fukuoka Dai Hawks. He'd probably get the most money there and he's still young enough to have a good season and take a shot at the US again.

I'm wondering why Bay isn't playing winter ball somewhere. If he's really interested in showcasing his game and coming into spring in midseason form, I think he'd do that. Winter Ball was made for guys like Bay.