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View Full Version : Yasmani Grandal Suspended for PED Use



CySeymour
11-07-2012, 04:18 PM
Never saw this one coming:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/yasmani-grandal-suspended-50-games.html

Wonderful Monds
11-07-2012, 04:20 PM
Whoa!

cinreds21
11-07-2012, 04:20 PM
Glad we have Mes now???? :)

kaldaniels
11-07-2012, 04:24 PM
From an irony POV, I love it. :D

Unassisted
11-07-2012, 04:43 PM
Glad we have Mes now???? :)Might be a wash. One could argue that the Reds effectively put Mes on a ~50-game suspension from the majors at the end of last season. ;)

Vottomatic
11-07-2012, 04:44 PM
I didn't see this one coming.

But then again, I'm not impressed with Mez either.

redsmetz
11-07-2012, 04:49 PM
So someone explain to me how these keep coming up. I understand one possibility is someone just thinks they might be able to mask things enough to not get caught, so that's one possibility. Other than that, what else can this be?

CySeymour
11-07-2012, 04:55 PM
So someone explain to me how these keep coming up. I understand one possibility is someone just thinks they might be able to mask things enough to not get caught, so that's one possibility. Other than that, what else can this be?

Stupidity?

757690
11-07-2012, 04:57 PM
so someone explain to me how these keep coming up. I understand one possibility is someone just thinks they might be able to mask things enough to not get caught, so that's one possibility. Other than that, what else can this be?

💰💰💰

westofyou
11-07-2012, 05:09 PM
So someone explain to me how these keep coming up. I understand one possibility is someone just thinks they might be able to mask things enough to not get caught, so that's one possibility. Other than that, what else can this be?

Masking agents and a technology are in a race between those who take and those who test.

Until guys whole careers are threatened with expulsion expect a constant tennis match between those two groups.

Never doubt the power of the dollar as a carrot

oneupper
11-07-2012, 05:14 PM
So someone explain to me how these keep coming up. I understand one possibility is someone just thinks they might be able to mask things enough to not get caught, so that's one possibility. Other than that, what else can this be?

I'd guess most users stay ahead of the curve with masking or simply because testing is not frequent and mainly urine-based. They probably get away with it most of the time and only get caught when they are unlucky with timing or the masking agent doesn't work correctly.
Grandal made it through the minors without getting caught.

Armstrong was never officially "caught", but there is little doubt today that he juiced to the max. And testing in cycling has always been far ahead of baseball's program.

757690
11-07-2012, 05:27 PM
Masking agents and a technology are in a race between those who take and those who test.

Until guys whole careers are threatened with expulsion expect a constant tennis match between those two groups.

Never doubt the power of the dollar as a carrot

They are just playing the odds, which are in their favor. Grandel probably won't lose much money over this, unless he keeps juicing and gets busted again. This 50 game suspension costs him very little now, and won't have much effect a few years from when he starts making the big bucks, as long as he is productive.

WildcatFan
11-07-2012, 05:31 PM
Moron. I'm glad we shipped him instead of Mez.

Tom Servo
11-07-2012, 05:38 PM
Walt Jocketty is a genius.

PuffyPig
11-07-2012, 06:07 PM
They are just playing the odds, which are in their favor. Grandel probably won't lose much money over this, unless he keeps juicing and gets busted again. This 50 game suspension costs him very little now, and won't have much effect a few years from when he starts making the big bucks, as long as he is productive.

The cost is likely that he isn't as good as he appeared to be. He may have been on PEDs since college, and the Reds may have even suspected it.

edabbs44
11-07-2012, 06:41 PM
Nice. Agree with WOY, obviously the deterrents aren't deterring enough.

hebroncougar
11-07-2012, 06:49 PM
Nice. Agree with WOY, obviously the deterrents aren't deterring enough.

It should be one season for a bust, and banned for life for 2nd offense. And any contract is voided if you're caught. I bet that would get it done.

IslandRed
11-07-2012, 07:22 PM
It should be one season for a bust, and banned for life for 2nd offense. And any contract is voided if you're caught. I bet that would get it done.

I'm thinking the main thing that would get "done" is team personnel slipping guys a little extra something in hopes of ridding themselves of albatross contracts. Not that I'm cynical or anything.

muddie
11-07-2012, 07:26 PM
The frequency of these suspensions is almost comical. Clearly MLB isn't very serious about this problem.

Brutus
11-07-2012, 07:29 PM
The frequency of these suspensions is almost comical. Clearly MLB isn't very serious about this problem.

How so? They test four times a year. They can only suspend someone if they are found to have violated the specific terms of the agreement. I'm not sure how the frequency in which they catch players in the act in any way, shape or form illustrates how "serious" MLB is about the issue.

Ravenlord
11-07-2012, 07:32 PM
at least he didn't create a fake website.

mth123
11-07-2012, 10:01 PM
The cost is likely that he isn't as good as he appeared to be. He may have been on PEDs since college, and the Reds may have even suspected it.

I think we've found a whole new roster building tactic. Draft a juicer and deal him for an ace before he gets caught.

RedsManRick
11-07-2012, 10:01 PM
Any chance the Reds knew/suspected something?

kaldaniels
11-07-2012, 10:06 PM
Any chance the Reds knew/suspected something?

Unfortunately it's one of those things an organization would never come out and say.

If only we had an inside source (cough).

cinreds21
11-07-2012, 10:08 PM
Who, me?

Roy Tucker
11-07-2012, 10:20 PM
Any chance the Reds knew/suspected something?

My very first thought.

kaldaniels
11-07-2012, 10:23 PM
Who, me?

:lol:

HokieRed
11-07-2012, 11:09 PM
My very first thought.

I doubt it. I don't see it as in any team's long term interest to trade damaged goods to other clubs. Jocketty surely knows that.

mbgrayson
11-07-2012, 11:53 PM
Interesting. So now two players in the Latos deal have a PED history; Grandal and Volquez.... The fans on PadresZone will not be happy.

cinreds21
11-08-2012, 12:37 AM
I would guess he got popped after the All-Star break. And I don't know if the Reds "knew" anything. College players get drug tested too so I don't know how he could have avoided it back then.

Blitz Dorsey
11-08-2012, 01:13 AM
Hello! Wow. Definitely one I didn't see coming ... and I'm highly skeptical (and good at calling these things in advance). Wow, wow and WOW.

That Latos trade is looking better by the day.

Blitz Dorsey
11-08-2012, 01:14 AM
From an irony POV, I love it. :D

I love your honesty here. Whether they will admit it or not, every Reds fan feels the exact same way.

:beerme:

backbencher
11-08-2012, 01:30 AM
I think we've found a whole new roster building tactic. Draft a juicer and deal him for an ace before he gets caught.

Been done at the organizational level already. Michael Lewis called it "Moneyball."

REDREAD
11-08-2012, 02:33 AM
I think if Walt knew it, at the very minimum, he would've disclosed in it the trade. Hard to speculate on what people will do, but I remember Walt being furious about the Brantley-Dimitri Young trade because Bowden exaggerated Brantley's medical health.

I think in terms of integrity, Walt is well respected among his peers.

camisadelgolf
11-08-2012, 02:38 AM
The frequency of these suspensions is almost comical. Clearly MLB isn't very serious about this problem.
I think the individual players are the ones not taking it seriously.

mth123
11-08-2012, 05:42 AM
Been done at the organizational level already. Michael Lewis called it "Moneyball."

:clap:

GAC
11-08-2012, 05:52 AM
I'd love to see stronger penalties but then you have the player's union to deal with. IMO, they are going to "blunt" really severe penalties, such as expulsion.

Wonderful Monds
11-08-2012, 06:07 AM
I'd love to see stronger penalties but then you have the player's union to deal with. IMO, they are going to "blunt" really severe penalties, such as expulsion.

Somewhere, Jeremy Jeffress' ears just perked up.

camisadelgolf
11-08-2012, 08:44 AM
Somewhere, Jeremy Jeffress' ears just perked up.
:lol:
Speaking of which, he was just designated for assignment last week. We might see him with a new team soon. I wouldn't mind seeing if the Reds could get him higher in his accomplishments. It would have to be a joint effort though.

Tadasimha
11-08-2012, 10:20 AM
:lol:
Speaking of which, he was just designated for assignment last week. We might see him with a new team soon. I wouldn't mind seeing if the Reds could get him higher in his accomplishments. It would have to be a joint effort though.

I see what you did there! :laugh:

Bet he'd be more interested in playing for the Rockies or the Mariners.

Chip R
11-08-2012, 10:45 AM
I know a lot of people on here are/were high on Grandal - even more so than Mes - but if you could trade Mes for Grandal straight up, knowing that Grandal has to miss the 1st 50 games of 2013 and another positive test would be 100 games, would you do that deal?

medford
11-08-2012, 12:00 PM
I know a lot of people on here are/were high on Grandal - even more so than Mes - but if you could trade Mes for Grandal straight up, knowing that Grandal has to miss the 1st 50 games of 2013 and another positive test would be 100 games, would you do that deal?

Well I'd have to know (and obviously the Reds do, but I'm not sure if its ever been pinpointed here or not) why Mes basically became persona non grata the last month + of the season, even w/ roster expansion. What caused it, how did Mes deal w/ it, what are the prospects in those regards moving forward.

W/o that information, I'd be hesitant to make the call one way or another.

REDREAD
11-08-2012, 12:10 PM
I know a lot of people on here are/were high on Grandal - even more so than Mes - but if you could trade Mes for Grandal straight up, knowing that Grandal has to miss the 1st 50 games of 2013 and another positive test would be 100 games, would you do that deal?

Nope, I would not do that.
Mes will get another chance. He's still young.
I guess from Day 1, I never expected Mes to be the next Gary Carter.
He will be a useful catcher though.
Last season was growing pains, he'll be ok in the long term.

I'm very leary of trading for someone busted for PEDs.. it makes their entire past history of performance suspicious. Naturally, everyone would trade a nobody for Grandal and take the chance, but I would not trade Mes.

Roy Tucker
11-08-2012, 12:33 PM
I doubt it. I don't see it as in any team's long term interest to trade damaged goods to other clubs. Jocketty surely knows that.

Yeah, I imagine you are right. WJ from a pragmatic standpoint and Castellini from an ethical one. BCast is a stand-up guy and wouldn't stand for such shenanigans.

westofyou
11-08-2012, 01:29 PM
I doubt it. I don't see it as in any team's long term interest to trade damaged goods to other clubs. Jocketty surely knows that.

Yep.

Jocketty was the GM when the Reds traded Brantley to the Cardinals, he wasn't healthy and the Cards didn't trade with the Reds for the rest of the Bowden era and made it clear why

M2
11-08-2012, 02:39 PM
I see what you did there! :laugh:

Bet he'd be more interested in playing for the Rockies or the Mariners.

The Reds ought to tell him he can work with Tom Browning as his personal pitching coach.

Crumbley
11-08-2012, 02:46 PM
I'd have more time for the conspiracy theory if the Reds didn't have a highly touted prospect who played the same position and was a year ahead.

Blitz Dorsey
11-08-2012, 09:25 PM
I'd have more time for the conspiracy theory if the Reds didn't have a highly touted prospect who played the same position and was a year ahead.

This.

Also, let's not forget Mesoraco is much better defensively. He'll be fine as a hitter eventually. I liked the pop that he showed in limited action in 2012. He's a naturally strong (and tough) young man. I think he'll end up being a 20 HR/year guy when he reaches the peak of his career.

The Reds have Hanigan for probably a few more years, but Mesoraco is certainly the catcher of the future. The next-best prospect at the position in the organization is Tucker Barnhart and he's nowhere near the prospect Mesoraco is/was.

kaldaniels
11-08-2012, 10:09 PM
The one gut reaction that I remember from watching Yasmani this year on a few occasions was that he didn't seem to be a likable guy. Not that that means anything at all but it has stuck in my mind.

Brutus
11-08-2012, 10:11 PM
I'd have more time for the conspiracy theory if the Reds didn't have a highly touted prospect who played the same position and was a year ahead.

I'm not sure I believe it either, but it's not really a "conspiracy" to suggest management suspected a player was producing with benefit of synthetic substances.

Always Red
11-09-2012, 10:11 AM
Jocketty was the GM when the Reds traded Brantley to the Cardinals, he wasn't healthy and the Cards didn't trade with the Reds for the rest of the Bowden era and made it clear why

hmm..it's no coincidence that Bowden no longer has a job in baseball.

Blitz Dorsey
11-09-2012, 10:22 AM
hmm..it's no coincidence that Bowden no longer has a job in baseball.

Bowden sucking while in Cincinnati and then Washington is the biggest reason he's no longer an MLB GM. If he would have consistently put winning teams on the field, his bosses wouldn't have cared about a shady trade or three. Bowden was just a very bad GM, period. He tried to run the team like a fantasy team. He's a complete clown in my book. (And not just because he used to wear leather pants. OK, well, that too.)

Reds/Flyers Fan
11-09-2012, 05:45 PM
Bowden sucking while in Cincinnati and then Washington is the biggest reason he's no longer an MLB GM. If he would have consistently put winning teams on the field, his bosses wouldn't have cared about a shady trade or three. Bowden was just a very bad GM, period. He tried to run the team like a fantasy team. He's a complete clown in my book. (And not just because he used to wear leather pants. OK, well, that too.)

It wasn't all Jim Bowden's fault that he couldn't put a winning team on the field in Cincinnati. His hands were tied behind his back by the apathetic, do-nothing Lindner/Allen regime. He had few resources here.

His DC tenure, however, was pathetic.

Strikes Out Looking
11-09-2012, 05:56 PM
It wasn't all Jim Bowden's fault that he couldn't put a winning team on the field in Cincinnati. His hands were tied behind his back by the apathetic, do-nothing Lindner/Allen regime. He had few resources here.

His DC tenure, however, was pathetic.

I beg to disagree about Bowden in Cincy. While Uncle Carl and Allen were not great owners/team presidents, they were not the ones fixated on 5 tool players at the expense of everything else needed by the Reds.

Revering4Blue
11-09-2012, 11:42 PM
I beg to disagree about Bowden in Cincy. While Uncle Carl and Allen were not great owners/team presidents, they were not the ones fixated on 5 tool players at the expense of everything else needed by the Reds.

While Bowden's faults have been well documented, I'm not sure Billy Beane could have been successful under the Lindner/Allen regime, especially when high draft picks were punted.

Rojo
11-11-2012, 03:06 PM
I'm not sure I believe it either, but it's not really a "conspiracy" to suggest management suspected a player was producing with benefit of synthetic substances.

Is it unethical to not pass on your suspision? If I knew I was trading a guy who couldn't hit a curve, I wouldn't feel the need to disclose it.

Brutus
11-11-2012, 04:06 PM
Is it unethical to not pass on your suspision? If I knew I was trading a guy who couldn't hit a curve, I wouldn't feel the need to disclose it.

I don't think it's unethical, personally.

Revering4Blue
11-11-2012, 04:30 PM
I don't think it's unethical, personally.
Neither do I. I don't view it as analogous to withholding injury-related information, such as the Brantley/Young deal.

kaldaniels
11-11-2012, 07:05 PM
If it is nothing but suspicion i.e. a gut feeling, I don't have an issue with it. Now to have evidence and not do anything about it is Bowdenesque.