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panzecaz03
11-07-2012, 07:44 PM
Frazier, Harper, and Miley finalists for ROY

Baker, Bochy, and Davey Johnson finalists for Manager of year

Cueto is not a finalists for NL Cy Young

redsfan1995
11-07-2012, 09:56 PM
I think Frazier deserves ROY over Harper but I think Harper will win and I think Bochy wins manager of the year.

Kiko
11-07-2012, 10:08 PM
who are the finalist for cy young?

redsfan1995
11-07-2012, 10:19 PM
who are the finalist for cy young?

R.A. Dickey Gio Gonzalez Clayton Kershaw

WDE
11-07-2012, 11:09 PM
If Harper does win, it will be a sad time for baseball. He has no business winning ROY because, in reality, everybody knows he was not the best rookie this year.

[deleted]
11-07-2012, 11:23 PM
If Harper does win, it will be a sad time for baseball. He has no business winning ROY because, in reality, everybody knows he was not the best rookie this year.

I'm guessing you're in favor of Miley, then? I would agree with you.

If you think it belongs to Frazier, though, and by such a large margin that it would be a "sad time for baseball" if Harper won, then I'd say you're dead wrong. Harper had a better slash line, better walk and strikeout rates, and played better defense at premium positions. Frazier had a bit of an edge in power and there's the added bonus of how huge it was for him to cover Rolen and Votto, but don't think that Harper winning would be based all on hype. He turned in a great rookie season.

panzecaz03
11-08-2012, 02:55 AM
The case I make for Harper is that I don't think any other player could have put up numbers like him if they were 19-20 years old

HometownHero
11-08-2012, 08:10 AM
If Harper does win, it will be a sad time for baseball. He has no business winning ROY because, in reality, everybody knows he was not the best rookie this year.

Harper was better than Todd and over 5 years younger.

texasdave
11-08-2012, 11:51 AM
Age isn't a qualification for Rookie-of-the-Year.

HometownHero
11-08-2012, 12:22 PM
Age isn't a qualification for Rookie-of-the-Year.

Not a qualification but no doubt a factor especially when the far younger guy (6 years and 8 months) had the better year.

OPS+
119 in 597 PA for BH with a 4.9 WAR
115 in 465 PA for TF with a 2.8 WAR

Not only did Harper do better over 132 more PA he also swiped more bags and finished 5th in the NL in runs scored despite spending the first 20 games in the minors. He also had the teenage record for most XBH, had the 3rd best OPS as a teenager and had the 2nd most HR. He became the first teen to hit a triple in the playoffs and the second-youngest player ever to Homer in the playoffs.

texasdave
11-08-2012, 12:36 PM
Not a qualification but no doubt a factor especially when the far younger guy (6 years and 8 months) had the better year.

OPS+
119 in 597 PA for BH with a 4.9 WAR
115 in 465 PA for TF with a 2.8 WAR

Not only did Harper do better over 132 more PA he also swiped more bags and finished 5th in the NL in runs scored despite spending the first 20 games in the minors. He also had the teenage record for most XBH, had the 3rd best OPS as a teenager and had the 2nd most HR. He became the first teen to hit a triple in the playoffs and the second-youngest player ever to Homer in the playoffs.

It should be neither a qualification nor a factor. It is simply who had the better rookie season.

HometownHero
11-08-2012, 12:46 PM
It should be neither a qualification nor a factor. It is simply who had the better rookie season.

It always should be a factor an old rookie with previous MLB time hitting in the majors is nowhere near as impressive as a teenager who got rushed to the majors doing it.

texasdave
11-08-2012, 02:35 PM
It always should be a factor an old rookie with previous MLB time hitting in the majors is nowhere near as impressive as a teenager who got rushed to the majors doing it.

For the last time, it is not a factor in determining the winner of the ROTY award. Go look at what the BBWA's criteria are. You won't find age mentioned anywhere. The award is not to determine which player will have the better career. It is simply judging which player had the better rookie season. If you want to start your own award and make age a criterion, have at it. But you are simply wrong.

dubc47834
11-08-2012, 02:47 PM
For the last time, it is not a factor in determining the winner of the ROTY award. Go look at what the BBWA's criteria are. You won't find age mentioned anywhere. The award is not to determine which player will have the better career. It is simply judging which player had the better rookie season. If you want to start your own award and make age a criterion, have at it. But you are simply wrong.

I don't think that he is saying that it is in the criteria per se, just that it is in a round about way. We all know that offensive numbers aren't suppose to be figured in for Gold Gloves, but we all know it is. Also that whether you team makes the playoffs isn't criteria for MVP, but it is. Chill out...calm down...it's the offseason man...LOL

texasdave
11-08-2012, 03:04 PM
I don't think that he is saying that it is in the criteria per se, just that it is in a round about way. We all know that offensive numbers aren't suppose to be figured in for Gold Gloves, but we all know it is. Also that whether you team makes the playoffs isn't criteria for MVP, but it is. Chill out...calm down...it's the offseason man...LOL

I must be nearing the record for people on ignore.

Mister!!! Exclamation!!! Point!!! himself!!! telling!!! someone!!! to!!! chill!!! out!!!

dubc47834
11-08-2012, 04:00 PM
I must be nearing the record for people on ignore.

Mister!!! Exclamation!!! Point!!! himself!!! telling!!! someone!!! to!!! chill!!! out!!!

What are you talking about man? There wasn't 1 exclamation point in that post...if you want to ignore me go ahead. That post wasn't trying to be offensive or anything, just stating what I thought about the matter...thats all. I did get a lil jab in there about chillin out...it was just a jab tho, not a full blown upper cut below the belt.

HometownHero
11-08-2012, 04:00 PM
For the last time, it is not a factor in determining the winner of the ROTY award. Go look at what the BBWA's criteria are. You won't find age mentioned anywhere. The award is not to determine which player will have the better career. It is simply judging which player had the better rookie season. If you want to start your own award and make age a criterion, have at it. But you are simply wrong.

I find it comical that you don't think age plays a factor in a close ROY vote. Just like dubc47834 mentioned secondary things are always factored into award voting and its more than just black and white stats.

Brendan Ryan can't hit and he has zero Gold Gloves, if he could hit for average or power he would have at least 3 of them. He's +89 DRS the last 4 years at SS if you double the DRS for his runner up Ryan would still be leading. He's also leading all defensive players in the majors over that period but has no GGs to show for it due to something not apart of the standard GG criteria.

Pujols would have won the 2010 MVP over Joey if the Cards made the playoffs and we didn't, and Braun did the same thing to Kemp last year so it clear more goes into awards than just who done the best.

foxfire123
11-08-2012, 07:29 PM
The Reds just posted to Facebook that Jay Bruce won the Silver Slugger.

https://www.facebook.com/Reds

Ironman92
11-09-2012, 07:40 PM
I find it comical that you don't think age plays a factor in a close ROY vote. Just like dubc47834 mentioned secondary things are always factored into award voting and its more than just black and white stats.

Brendan Ryan can't hit and he has zero Gold Gloves, if he could hit for average or power he would have at least 3 of them. He's +89 DRS the last 4 years at SS if you double the DRS for his runner up Ryan would still be leading. He's also leading all defensive players in the majors over that period but has no GGs to show for it due to something not apart of the standard GG criteria.

Pujols would have won the 2010 MVP over Joey if the Cards made the playoffs and we didn't, and Braun did the same thing to Kemp last year so it clear more goes into awards than just who done the best.

Not necessarily....Pujols won over Andruw Jones and Jones made playoffs and Pujols didn't.....next year Pujols lost to Ryan Howard and Pujols made playoffs and Howard didn't.

HometownHero
11-09-2012, 08:37 PM
Not necessarily....Pujols won over Andruw Jones and Jones made playoffs and Pujols didn't.....next year Pujols lost to Ryan Howard and Pujols made playoffs and Howard didn't.

The Cards won 100 games in 1995 when Pujols won the MVP, when he lost the next year they won 83. They made the playoffs by virtue of playing in the weakest division of all time while Howard's Phillies won 2 more games in a much harder division.

When Howard won he lead the majors in TB by 21, HR by 4 and RBI by 12 and actually hit .313 just .018 worse than Pujols so he was one of the best players in all of baseball that year. While Jones was .067 worse than Albert on a team with 10 less wins and lead the majors in just HR. Howard played in a hitters park so if Pujols won it would been a non-issue but his year and Jones year aren't even close.

The player who should have been MVP in 2005 if records didn't play a factor would been Derrek Lee who lead the majors in BA, SLG, OPS, TB, 2B and was 4th in HR all good for the MLB lead in OPS+ at 174, Pujols was 2nd in NL with a 168 and Jones was well down the list with just a 136.

Ironman92
11-09-2012, 10:08 PM
2005 I was wrong about the Cardinals....2006 goes against your point though....all the stuff in favor of either doesn't matter.

HometownHero
11-10-2012, 05:36 AM
2005 I was wrong about the Cardinals....2006 goes against your point though....all the stuff in favor of either doesn't matter.

In 2006 the Cards made the playoffs with a worse record than the Phillies in an easier division. Making the playoffs with 83 wins in a 6 team division isn't going to push someone to a MVP in a close vote vs a guy with more wins and leading the majors in most production stats.

panzecaz03
11-12-2012, 08:43 PM
Looks like Harper won ROY. Good season for the 19 year old