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Benihana
11-13-2012, 11:49 AM
The rules: You cannot add more than $20MM to the 2013 or 2014 payroll. Three moves or less. Try to keep it as realistic as possible.

1. Trade Leake, Gregorius, Heisey and Corcino for Justin Upton
2. Sign Grady Sizemore to a 1 year, $3MM contract
3. Sign Ryan Madson (or Joakim Soria) to a 1 year, $6MM contract

Opening Day Roster

CF Sizemore/Stubbs platoon (keeps Sizemore healthy, keeps Stubbs vs LHP)
2B Phillips
1B Votto
LF J.Upton
RF Bruce
3B Frazier
C Mesoraco/Hanigan
SS Cozart (pop at the bottom of the order, and batting ahead of the pitcher could help boost his OBP)

SP Cueto
SP Latos
SP Bailey
SP Arroyo
SP Chapman/Cingrani (these two should be able to throw roughly 100-125 IP each, with the other one continuing to "stretch out" in the minors or in a long relief role)

BP LeCure
BP Hoover
BP Arredondo/Simon/Cingrani?
BP Masset
SU Marshall
CL Madson or Soria

*In 2014, Hamilton takes over in CF/leadoff (or sooner if Sizemore can't stay healthy), and Marshall or Hoover takes over closing duties.

Vottomatic
11-13-2012, 01:40 PM
Chapman, Corcino, Neftali Soto, Lutz, Yorman Rodriguez to Marlins for Giancarlo Stanton. :thumbup: :beerme:
Heisey and Sharky Rogers to Indians for 1 year rental of Choo.
Re-sign Madson and Broxton for bullpen.

CF Choo
2B Phillips
1B Votto
LF Stanton
RF Bruce
3B Frazier
C Hanigan/Navarro
SS Cozart

SP Cueto
SP Latos
SP Arroyo
SP Bailey
SP Leake

CL Madson
RP Broxton
RP Marshall
RP Hoover
RP Arredondo
RP Ondrusek
RP Lecure

Scrap Irony
11-13-2012, 01:57 PM
Deal Leake, Corcino, and Ondrusek to Rockies for Dexter Fowler.
Sign Lance Berkman to a one-year, $6 million contract.
Sign free agent RP Ryan Madson to a two-year, $15 million, backloaded contract.

Fowler CF
Phillips 2B
Votto 1B
Berkman LF
Bruce RF
Frazier 2B
Hanigan C
Cozart SS

Cueto
Latos
Chapman/ Corcino
Bailey
Arroyo

Madson
Hoover
Marshall
LeCure
Arredondo
Simon
Massett
Corcino

Mesoraco C
Heisey OF
Paul OF
H. Rodriguez PH/ 3B
Gregorius SS/ 2B

When Berkman's gimpy, some combination of Henry Rodriguez, Todd Frazier, Chris Heisey, and Xavier Paul take over in LF and 3B. Ride the hot hand.

Weak bench. Great starting pitching. Good health from the corners, continued progression of Bruce, Frazier, Cozart key to two pennants in a row.

LoganBuck
11-13-2012, 02:08 PM
1. Steal Underpants
2.
3. Win

corkedbat
11-13-2012, 03:03 PM
1. Steal Underpants
2.
3. Win

Win = Profit

:D

CySeymour
11-13-2012, 03:03 PM
1. Steal Underpants
2.
3. Win

This idea is the most realistic, because I don't see any of the trades proposed as anywhere near realistic.

Benihana
11-13-2012, 03:10 PM
This idea is the most realistic, because I don't see any of the trades proposed as anywhere near realistic.

Sorry, but I see Leake, Gregorius, Heisey and Corcino as pretty realistic for Upton.

I don't see the D'Backs getting much more than a young starting pitcher with a proven track record (who could be their #3), a young major league ready starting SS, a top 50 SP prospect and a major league OF.

CySeymour
11-13-2012, 03:24 PM
Sorry, but I see Leake, Gregorius, Heisey and Corcino as pretty realistic for Upton.

I don't see the D'Backs getting much more than a young starting pitcher with a proven track record (who could be their #3), a young major league ready starting SS, a top 50 SP prospect and a major league OF.

I just don't see a team trading its franchise player to the Reds for any package that does not include Hamilton. None of the players I believe would be the center piece of such a trade.

Kc61
11-13-2012, 03:26 PM
Sorry, but I see Leake, Gregorius, Heisey and Corcino as pretty realistic for Upton.

I don't see the D'Backs getting much more than a young starting pitcher with a proven track record (who could be their #3), a young major league ready starting SS, a top 50 SP prospect and a major league OF.

I agree that your Upton trade makes sense, although I'm guessing it would take Cozart rather than Gregorius. I suggested something similar in a different thread.

I like your proposed team up to about the seventh inning. I would hate to go into the season with your proposed bullpen, however. Too many guys coming off major injuries.

But the first six or seven innings would be fun.

M2
11-13-2012, 03:36 PM
I haven't figured out three moves of doom yet. For instance, I'm not 100% sure what the proper deal for Fowler is. Probably still costs Homer Bailey, which I'd pay gladly if I knew that the plan was to put Chapman into the rotation (in which case the Reds need to do some bullpen shopping). And would Stubbs be in that deal? If a prospect like Corcino wre in there what could the Reds get in addition to Fowler? There's lots of dominoes involved with that particular move.

In the meantime, a simple CF solution might be Nyjer Morgan. His career slash line vs. RHPs is .297/.352/.385. The Reds could platoon him with Stubbs at the top of the lineup.

Benihana
11-13-2012, 03:50 PM
np

Benihana
11-13-2012, 03:54 PM
I agree that your Upton trade makes sense, although I'm guessing it would take Cozart rather than Gregorius. I suggested something similar in a different thread.

I like your proposed team up to about the seventh inning. I would hate to go into the season with your proposed bullpen, however. Too many guys coming off major injuries.

But the first six or seven innings would be fun.

While I'd rather deal Gregorius, I'd be OK subbing Cozart for him in that deal for Upton.

As far as the 7th-9th innings go, I'd be happy going in with this year's bullpen but subbing Madson or Soria in for Chapman- what's wrong with that?

Kc61
11-13-2012, 04:03 PM
While I'd rather deal Gregorius, I'd be OK subbing Cozart for him in that deal for Upton.

As far as the 7th-9th innings go, I'd be happy going in with this year's bullpen but subbing Madson or Soria in for Chapman- what's wrong with that?

Madson and Soria both are coming off Tommy John surgery. Neither has pitched in a game since the surgery. Soria likely won't even be available until May at the earliest.

And your bullpen also has Masset who missed the entire 2012 season with injury, after a weak 2011.

I'm not entrusting a contending ballclub to such a bullpen. Maybe one injury rehab guy in middle relief. But not my closer and righty set up man.

Benihana
11-13-2012, 04:37 PM
Madson and Soria both are coming off Tommy John surgery. Neither has pitched in a game since the surgery. Soria likely won't even be available until May at the earliest.

And your bullpen also has Masset who missed the entire 2012 season with injury, after a weak 2011.

I'm not entrusting a contending ballclub to such a bullpen. Maybe one injury rehab guy in middle relief. But not my closer and righty set up man.

I trust Hoover as more of the RH-setup guy than Masset.

Add in LeCure and Marshall (as well as one of the FA acquisitions), and you leave two spots to:

Arredondo/Simon/Masset/Ondrusek/some other cheap acquisition (and/or possibly Cingrani)

I think it's a fairly safe bet that two guys can emerge from that bunch to be dependable relievers. Arredondo and Simon were certainly dependable relievers this year, so just pencil in those two if you don't trust Masset.

As far as the closer goes, you could always try Hoover or Marshall if they can't return to form. I still think that leaves us with as good of a bullpen as any team out there, but of course you value bullpen higher than I do.

PuffyPig
11-13-2012, 04:56 PM
Sign Lance Berkman to a one-year, $6 million contract.


Shudder........

I'm not sure he'll be fit enough to play DH.

And how would Cris Carpenter....never mind.

Patrick Bateman
11-13-2012, 05:04 PM
In the meantime, a simple CF solution might be Nyjer Morgan. His career slash line vs. RHPs is .297/.352/.385. The Reds could platoon him with Stubbs at the top of the lineup.

I think that's a great idea. A platoon of Morgan and Stubbs (assuming they are platooned correctly) would actually be quite productive and inexpensive. Save the bullets to solve the other positions and acquire needed depth.

Kc61
11-13-2012, 05:12 PM
I trust Hoover as more of the RH-setup guy than Masset.

Add in LeCure and Marshall (as well as one of the FA acquisitions), and you leave two spots to:

Arredondo/Simon/Masset/Ondrusek/some other cheap acquisition (and/or possibly Cingrani)

I think it's a fairly safe bet that two guys can emerge from that bunch to be dependable relievers. Arredondo and Simon were certainly dependable relievers this year, so just pencil in those two if you don't trust Masset.

As far as the closer goes, you could always try Hoover or Marshall if they can't return to form. I still think that leaves us with as good of a bullpen as any team out there, but of course you value bullpen higher than I do.

I'm willing to take some chances on the bullpen and give Chapman a chance to start.

But I don't think it's too much to ask for the Reds to add to the ballclub
one healthy, solid late inning reliever to fill his spot. I don't think you replace Chapman by shuffling your current pen around and adding rehabbing pitchers.

I almost gagged when you referred to Arredondo as a dependable reliever last year, but that's not the purpose of the thread so I'll defer further comment.

Benihana
11-13-2012, 05:17 PM
I'm willing to take some chances on the bullpen and give Chapman a chance to start.

But I don't think it's too much to ask for the Reds to add to the ballclub
one healthy, solid late inning reliever to fill his spot. I don't think you replace Chapman by shuffling your current pen around and adding rehabbing pitchers.

I almost gagged when you referred to Arredondo as a dependable reliever last year, but that's not the purpose of the thread so I'll defer further comment.

I believe the Reds had the best bullpen in the league last year. Subbing Madson in for Chapman doesn't really take all that much away from that, particularly if you are boosting your rotation and your offense.

As for Arredondo, I'll take 6-2, 2.95 ERA 1.37 WHIP and 9.1 K/9 from the last guy in my bullpen every year.

And as for rehabbing pitchers vs. healthy pitchers, I'd rather have Madson or Soria next year than Broxton- especially if the former comes cheaper.

M2
11-13-2012, 05:26 PM
If Chapman goes to the rotation, the Reds either need to find another LHP or go with Cingrani. The latter would be a tough move to make if they've become convinced he's got a future as a starter, mainly because it would cost him the chance to better hone his secondary pitches in the upper minors. And even if they go with Cingrani they still might want to add a LOOGY to use Cingrani and Marshall for more extended outings.

Rojo
11-13-2012, 05:33 PM
I think that's a great idea. A platoon of Morgan and Stubbs (assuming they are platooned correctly) would actually be quite productive and inexpensive. Save the bullets to solve the other positions and acquire needed depth.

Just get a new manager first because I can't recall Baker ever platooning.

jhu1321
11-13-2012, 05:57 PM
1. Sign Youklis to play 3B moving Frazier to LF.
2. Trade Leake, DiDi and another spare part to the Twins for Span.
3. Resign Madson to move Chapman to the rotation.

4. For the love of God, DO NOT SIGN Nyjer Morgan

RedsManRick
11-13-2012, 06:47 PM
1. Leake, Cozart, Lotzkar, LaMarre to the D'Backs for Justin Upton
2. Koji Uehara, 1 yr/$4MM to be the "closer" so that Chapman can start
3. Make Dusty Baker write "I will not put guys with a sub .300 OBP at the top of my lineup" 10,000 times on the chalkboard (or add Nyjer Morgan as a platoon partner for Stubbs, assuming they deem he's not too insane)

_Sir_Charles_
11-13-2012, 07:48 PM
In the meantime, a simple CF solution might be Nyjer Morgan. His career slash line vs. RHPs is .297/.352/.385. The Reds could platoon him with Stubbs at the top of the lineup.

I'd rather bring back Taveras, Patterson and Edmonds before I want the Reds to even THINK about Nyjer Morgan. He is the definition of a clubhouse cancer. :thumbdown:

Rojo
11-13-2012, 08:04 PM
1. The Dbacks and Reds should be able to work out something for Upton. Cozart/Didi, Heisey/Stubbs, whatever, just get it done.

2. Victorino

3. I'd stay flexible about whether I'm adding a closer or starter. Assuming Leake's moved, you can A) move Chapman to the rotation, of course, and get a net improvement (not a given) and sign a closer. Or B) sign an inning-eater and not get a huge fall-off from Leake and keep Chapman in the closing role. It all depends on how the market develops. It's sounding like Broxton's getting bidded up a bit and there are lot of vet BOR starters on the board.

corkedbat
11-13-2012, 08:35 PM
1. Re-sign Ryan Ludwick or acquire Josh Willingham or Shin-Soo Choo
2. Acquire Dexter Fowler or Denard Span or sign Angel Pagan or Shane Victorino
3. Sign Ryan Madson or Jokim Soria freeing Chapman for the rotation

Wonderful Monds
11-13-2012, 09:20 PM
1. Trade whatever combination of minor leaguers that does not include Hamilton or Stephenson to Miami for Stanton.
2. Re-sign Broxton/Madson or sign Soria.
3. Trade Gregorious to Atlanta for Parra, trade Stubbs for whatever. Maybe some failed starter we can stick in the bullpen. I really don't care, just get him off the team to make room for Parra.

_Sir_Charles_
11-13-2012, 09:21 PM
1. Trade whatever combination of minor leaguers that does not include Hamilton or Stephenson to Miami for Stanton.
2. Re-sign Broxton/Madson or sign Soria.
3. Trade Gregorious to Atlanta for Parra, trade Stubbs for whatever. Maybe some failed starter we can stick in the bullpen. I really don't care, just get him off the team to make room for Parra.

Seriously, if you do #1...you can skip 2 and 3 and head straight to the "print playoff tickets" step.

nate
11-13-2012, 09:31 PM
1. Turn off "fair trades"
2. Trade all our less than awesome players for awesome players
3. Turn on "fair trades"

:cool:

Wonderful Monds
11-13-2012, 09:32 PM
1. Turn off "fair trades"
2. Trade all our less than awesome players for awesome players
3. Turn on "fair trades"

:cool:

Better strike tonight before Selig turns it back on in the league settings.

Kc61
11-13-2012, 09:54 PM
I believe the Reds had the best bullpen in the league last year. Subbing Madson in for Chapman doesn't really take all that much away from that, particularly if you are boosting your rotation and your offense.

As for Arredondo, I'll take 6-2, 2.95 ERA 1.37 WHIP and 9.1 K/9 from the last guy in my bullpen every year.

And as for rehabbing pitchers vs. healthy pitchers, I'd rather have Madson or Soria next year than Broxton- especially if the former comes cheaper.


1.37 WHIP for a reliever isn't very good and 2.95 ERA is just ok for a bullpenner. In the second half Arredondo had a 4.21 ERA and a 1.558 WHIP. He was pretty bad in the second half. Maybe he'll rebound, but I wouldn't bet the Reds' season on it.

As for the "best bullpen in the league" last year, it might have been when you include Chapman's 15.3 Ks per nine innings; his .809 WHIP; his 1.51 ERA in 71.2 innings. Take those stellar numbers out, I don't agree.

Frankly, other than Chapman and Marshall, I though the bullpen was just ok. I don't think Lecure, Simon, Ondrusek, an injured Bray, and Arredondo is a particularly good pen.

Hoover could be good, he was in AAA most of the year. Broxton helped, but he's a FA.

You think that's enough without Chapman? I don't.

Without Chapman, I think another healthy solid late inning guy is imperative.

Wonderful Monds
11-13-2012, 09:58 PM
1.37 WHIP for a reliever isn't very good. In the second half Arredondo had a 4.21 ERA and a 1.558 WHIP. He was pretty bad in the second half. Maybe he'll rebound, but I wouldn't bet the Reds' season on it.

As for the "best bullpen in the league" last year, it might have been when you include Chapman's 15.3 Ks per nine innings; his .809 WHIP; his 1.51 ERA in 71.2 innings. Take those stellar numbers out, I don't agree.

Frankly, other than Chapman and Marshall, I though the bullpen was just ok. I don't think Lecure, Simon, Ondrusek, an injured Bray, and Arredondo is a particularly good pen.

Hoover could be good, he was in AAA most of the year. Broxton helped, but he's a FA.

You think that's enough without Chapman? I don't.

Without Chapman, I think another healthy solid late inning guy is imperative.

I imagine most teams' bullpens aren't very good if you disregard their two best pitchers.

Kc61
11-13-2012, 10:00 PM
I imagine most teams' bullpens aren't very good if you disregard their two best pitchers.

Correct. I agree.

But in the Reds' case, posters are suggesting a bullpen without Chapman. So one of those two best relievers won't be there.

That's the situation we are discussing. Replacing Chapman with a guy coming off TJ surgery. That's the discussion.

Wonderful Monds
11-13-2012, 10:03 PM
Correct. I agree.

But in the Reds' case, posters are suggesting a bullpen without Chapman. So one of those two best relievers won't be there.

That's the situation we are discussing. Replacing Chapman with a guy coming off TJ surgery. That's the discussion.

Oh right, lol. I agree with that then.

Benihana
11-13-2012, 11:58 PM
1. Re-sign Ryan Ludwick or acquire Josh Willingham or Shin-Soo Choo
2. Acquire Dexter Fowler or Denard Span or sign Angel Pagan or Shane Victorino
3. Sign Ryan Madson or Jokim Soria freeing Chapman for the rotation

Congrats- you have given your offseason plan in 9 moves :)

thatcoolguy_22
11-14-2012, 12:15 AM
1. Trade Hamilton+ for Stanton
2. Sign Bourn
3. Sign Madson

Marlins have no reason to trade Stanton but he will be expensive in a few years and Loria might want to just get a head start. Plus if they could see Hamilton as a SS.

corkedbat
11-14-2012, 02:03 AM
Correct. I agree.

But in the Reds' case, posters are suggesting a bullpen without Chapman. So one of those two best relievers won't be there.

That's the situation we are discussing. Replacing Chapman with a guy coming off TJ surgery. That's the discussion.

If Chapman goes to the pen, then Cingrani should be the second lefty.

Add Broxton/Madson/Soria to:

Marshall
Hoover
Cingrani
Massett
Arredondo/Simon
Lecure

...and you still have one of the best bullpens in baseball.

corkedbat
11-14-2012, 02:04 AM
Congrats- you have given your offseason plan in 9 moves :)

No, basically I said:

1. LF
2. CF
3. High-leverage reliever to facilitate Chapman to the rotation

M2
11-14-2012, 02:18 AM
I'd rather bring back Taveras, Patterson and Edmonds before I want the Reds to even THINK about Nyjer Morgan. He is the definition of a clubhouse cancer. :thumbdown:

Yeah, remember how he sabotaged the Brewers in 2011? Oh wait ...

mth123
11-14-2012, 05:51 AM
I think payroll limitations make most of the moves suggested here a little unrealistic. The Reds, as is, with all free agents off the books, but bonus money, raises and arb awards included, are probably a little over $90 Million and I'm not sure they'll go much above $95 Million (about a $10 Million or roughly 12% increase from 2012). I like the Morgan idea, but I'll hold that back for a fall back option. Improvement needs to come at the margins without a lot of subtractions from the major league team or dealing any of the top 5 prospects IMO.

1. Kyle Lotzkar and David Vidal to the Cubs for David Dejesus
2. Nick Masset, Henry Rodriguez, Neftali Soto and Ryan LaMarre to the Orioles for Wilson Betemit and Pedro Strop
3. Sign J.P Howell to a 2 year, $7 Million contract ($2.5 Million in 2013 and $3.5 Million in 2014, option for 2015 for $5 Million with a $1 Million buy-out)

2013 Payroll goes up around $6 Million as a result of the deals. (Add Dejesus $4.25, Howell $2.5, Betemit $1.75, Strop $.5 and subtract Masset $3.1 = $5.9 Million)


Vs. RHP/Vs LHP

Dejesus/Stubbs CF
Phillips 2B
Votto 1B
Frazier LF/Frazier 3B
Bruce RF
Betemit 3B/Heisey LF
Cozart SS
Hanigan/Mesoraco C (Not a lefty/righty Platoon)

Paul LHPH/OF
Gregorious IF (Plays SS against RHP a couple times per week)

Latos
Cueto
Bailey
Arroyo
Chapman

Leake (Swingman)
Arredondo RMR but used as a LOOGY much of the time
Lecure RMR
Howell LMR
Hoover RHSU
Marshall LHSU
Strop Closer

Vottomatic
11-14-2012, 07:37 AM
Chapman, Corcino, Neftali Soto, Lutz, Yorman Rodriguez to Marlins for Giancarlo Stanton. :thumbup: :beerme:
Heisey and Sharky Rogers to Indians for 1 year rental of Choo.
Re-sign Madson and Broxton for bullpen.

CF Choo
2B Phillips
1B Votto
LF Stanton
RF Bruce
3B Frazier
C Hanigan/Navarro
SS Cozart

SP Cueto
SP Latos
SP Arroyo
SP Bailey
SP Leake

CL Madson
RP Broxton
RP Marshall
RP Hoover
RP Arredondo
RP Ondrusek
RP Lecure

Yeah. See. My idea of trading for Stanton isn't quite so ridiculous now, eh? :laugh: :D

Oh........those pitiful Marlins.

_Sir_Charles_
11-14-2012, 09:36 AM
1. Turn off "fair trades"
2. Trade all our less than awesome players for awesome players
3. Turn on "fair trades"

:cool:

ROFL!!! :O) That was great Nate. Thanks, I needed that.

Dan
11-14-2012, 10:11 AM
1. Hamilton/Cingrani for Giancarlo Stanton

Oh, I'm sorry, did you want more?

bucksfan2
11-14-2012, 11:09 AM
Wait. Some guys are going to get paid contracts they shouldn't get. Guys like Tori Hunter and Swisher are going to get contracts they won't live up to.

1. Sign Ryan Madsen to a 1 year $6M deal.
2. Sign Youkilis to a 2 year $18M deal.
3. Sign Grady Sizemore to a 1 year $1.5M deal that is incentive laden.

I would also kick the tires on trading Stubbs + to the Cubs for Dejesus. Status quo in CF isn't the solution this year. If they can catch lightening in a bottle next year with Sizemore then its one heck of a deal. If not its a small investment. Youk sends Frazier out into LF, a spot I think he can become a good all around player. Having Frazier allows Youk to get needed days off at 3b and also helps Votto get time off at 1b. I don't think Madsen is going to get paid next year because I don't think he will be right until mid June.

Cooper
11-14-2012, 11:34 AM
Make a big move -the worst thing winning teams do is assume they are better than they are -this team may be a 91 win team where things broke their way and they became a 97 win team. Make a big splash and change the energy of the team.

In 2011, i felt like Walt didn't do shake things up enough.

There are certain positions that Dusty has a hard time wiring around -he gets stuck -make sure those positions are filled with viable major league players or you might see Dusty run .463 OPS out there 4 times a week.

Lastly, support Devin Mesaroco's growth. I believe he has an OPS of .850 in him. How do we get that out while making sure the pitchers don't lose their minds? A catcher gets a rep and he can't break it until he's on the other side of 32, whereby he becomes an all knowing grizzled veteran. Something happened last year and he got pushed back -i'm not sure that helped the team on a long term basis. A catcher with his batting stats don't come along often - getting all you can out of him becomes this organizations number 1A developmental issue (behind the great BH).

M2
11-14-2012, 11:53 AM
Cooper, great post.

RANDY IN INDY
11-14-2012, 12:03 PM
Agree. Great post, Cooper!

Kc61
11-14-2012, 02:21 PM
Upton, Ziegler and a medium prospect for Corcino, Stubbs, Cozart, and Leake.

Crisp and Sean Doolittle for Heisey, Arredondo, Lotzkar, another decent prospect if needed.

Righty hitting SS who can spell Gregorius is third important pickup.



Crisp, Phillips, Votto, Upton, Bruce, Frazier, Hanigan/Mes, Gregorius.
Bench: Mes, HRod, righty shortstop, XPaul, backup righty CF with plate discipline.
Rotation: Cueto, Bailey, Latos, Chapman, Arroyo.
Bullpen: Hoover, Marshall, Doolittle, Ziegler, Lecure, Simon, and either Masset or Ondrusek.


Doolittle and Ziegler beef up the pen. I'd let Hoover close to begin, but with Marshall, Ziegler, and Doolittle also late inning guys.

Crisp is a stopgap for Hamilton.

Letting Ludwick go and trading Stubbs saves some money. Arroyo will be off the books following year, will help offset Upton salary.

Crisp is a short term fix.

Yes, I'm trading both Stubbs and Heisey and seeking a new righty backup CF. Somebody with some contact skills.

REDREAD
11-15-2012, 11:20 AM
1. Empty the farm system to acquire Choo from Indians. Extend him.
Failing that, acquire another solid LF or 3b.

2. Sign CF Shane Victorino to a perferably 1 year deal to play CF. (maybe 7 million/year)Go two years if necessary.
Hope for a bounceback.. surely, he won't be worse than Stubbs. I like the upside.Nice stopgap until Billy H is ready.

3. Sign FA LH Reliever Sean Burnett (Nats) for 2-4 million
Gives us a second lefty in the pen, and gives flexiblity to put Chapman in the rotation.

Vottomatic
11-21-2012, 02:56 PM
1. Trade Bailey to KC for Wil Myers to play LF and bat cleanup. (I've come around on this one). Chapman to rotation.
2. Bolster the bullpen and closer through free agency or trade.
3. Sign Youkilis to play 3B. Relegate Frazier for pinch hit duty and backup because you know they'll be injuries.

CF B. Hamilton
2B Phillips
1B Votto
LF Myers
RF Bruce
3B Youkilis
SS Cozart
C Hanigan

_Sir_Charles_
11-21-2012, 03:30 PM
1. Trade for and extend Shin Soo Choo. Stubbs, one of Corcino/Cingrani, and some lesser prospects. I'm certainly open to ideas concerning what would be required to trade for him. But no to any of the 5 current starters. Also no to Hamilton, Stephenson & Gregorius. Everybody else is fair game in the minors IMO.

2. Chapman to rotation. This will necessitate the following changes as well. Marshall becomes full-time closer. Leake heads to Louisville to maintain a regular schedule as a starter. All the other relievers move up a spot and if we need to backfill, do so from the Louisville bullpen not from their starting rotation. When Aroldis reaches his innings limit, replace him with Leake.

3. Leave Hamilton in AAA until we're sure he's ready. Do NOT rush him. Phillips can cover the leadoff slot. CF is manned by Heisey/Stubbs if they're both still here. If not, an extended audition for Heisey might be worth a look. While I like Stubbs as a person, I think we've all seen that he simply has too many flaws to be successful. I'd LOVE to be proven wrong about that though.


Hanigan/Mesoraco C
Votto 1B
Phillips 2B
Cozart SS (Didi makes the club as a UT)
Frazier 3B
Bruce RF
Heisey CF (if Stubbs is still here...defensive substitution for late innings)
Choo LF

Cuteo
Latos
Bailey
Arroyo
Chapman/Leake

Marshall
Massett
Arredondo
Hoover
LeCure
Ondrusek
Simon

Some of the minor leaguers could certainly fill in some holes (CF, Bullpen, Bench as needed). I'd rather not see us as players AT ALL in the free agent market.

RadfordVA
10-31-2013, 01:50 PM
1. Leake, Cozart, Lotzkar, LaMarre to the D'Backs for Justin Upton
2. Koji Uehara, 1 yr/$4MM to be the "closer" so that Chapman can start
3. Make Dusty Baker write "I will not put guys with a sub .300 OBP at the top of my lineup" 10,000 times on the chalkboard (or add Nyjer Morgan as a platoon partner for Stubbs, assuming they deem he's not too insane)

Was going back to look at what kind of talk there was about Koji last offseason as I did not remember much. All of MLB seemed to miss on this guy too. His underlying numbers were not that out of line with his previous career numbers which were terrific. Really surprising he did not get more attention last winter.

757690
10-31-2013, 02:31 PM
Was going back to look at what kind of talk there was about Koji last offseason as I did not remember much. All of MLB seemed to miss on this guy too. His underlying numbers were not that out of line with his previous career numbers which were terrific. Really surprising he did not get more attention last winter.

IIRC, RMR has been ahead of the curve, or at least us knuckleheads here in Redszone, most off seasons. Early on after the 2011 season, he argued the Reds should go after Latos, when no one even considered him as a trade target. And before that, I believe he was high on Kuroda before he was an established MLB starter.

I think we need to send his ideas to Walt :)

*BaseClogger*
10-31-2013, 03:32 PM
I'll take a shot at this (sorry, I need four moves):

1) Trade Brandon Phillips to the Kansas City Royals for Wade Davis and Kelvim Herrera.

2) Trade Homer Bailey to the Arizona Diamondbacks for Adam Eaton, Cliff Pennington, and a B prospect.

3) Re-sign Shin-Soo Choo to a back-loaded 6 year/$100M contract. Re-sign Bronson Arroyo to that rumored team friendly 2 year/$24M contract.

4) Trade (outfield?) prospects to the Seattle Mariners for Dustin Ackley.

The overall offense and defense is improved.

The outfield is now a three-way platoon of Choo, Eaton, and Ludwick. This allows Billy Hamilton to return to AAA until one of Ludwick/Heisey/Paul proves ineffective or he explodes onto the scene.

The bench has been improved since one of the outfield bats will be available, in addition to Pennington as an upgrade to Izturis.

Chapman begins the season in the rotation, with Cingrani in the bullpen, available if needed. Davis can act as a swing starter until Stephenson is ready in July. Davis was very good a reliever in 2012 and hopefully can return to that form in the Cincy pen. Herrera has bene very impressive in his young career, and their addition to Broxton/Marshall/Hoover/Cingrani/LeCure/Simon would make for formidable depth.

If you figure the combination of Phillips/Bailey would cost $20M in 2014, and the guys coming back in trades cost ya $9M, that's enough savings to afford the Choo increase...

kpresidente
10-31-2013, 06:27 PM
Bailey, Phillips, Ludwick > LAA > Trumbo, Kendrick, Taylor Lindsey (AA)

-Not really a huge fan of Trumbo but he's available, gives us a RH bat in the middle of the lineup and doesn't cost much and my thought is he could hit 40 HR in GABP in a good year. Phillips for Kendrick is basically straight up. I like Phillips a little better but Kendrick is a little cheaper. Taylor Lindsey could platoon with Frazier in 2015 and possibly replace Kendrick when his deal is up. We get our RH bat and get out of Phillips and Ludwick contracts. Angels get their pitcher, better defense and Trumbo to Ludwick is only a small downgrade. This deal saves us $18M this year and $30M over the next several years.

Sign Choo

-6 years/$100M. Because of my earlier deal you can probably front-load the contract some, saving money to extend Cueto or Latos in later years.

Sign Eric Chavez

-1 yr/$3M. Same contract he had this year. He'll platoon with Frazier.

Hannahan > ATL > Janish

-Janish can't hit a beach ball but he's got a good glove and cheap. I like Billy Hamilton in a semi-supersub kind of role where I can pinch-run him once a game (puts him on base as much as if he started), but his infield D would be suspect so thus Janish.


LINEUP
Choo, CF
Kendrick, 2B
Votto, 1B
Trumbo, LF
Bruce, RF
Mesoraco, C
Frazier/Chavez, 3B
Cozart, SS

BENCH
Hamilton, IF/OF
Janish, IF
Paul, OF
Hanigan, C

STARTERS
Cueto
Latos
Bailey
Cingrani
Chapman

PEN
Broxton
Marshall
Simon
Hoover
Lecure
Ondrusek
Parra

*BaseClogger*
11-01-2013, 09:44 AM
Bailey, Phillips, Ludwick > LAA > Trumbo, Kendrick, Taylor Lindsey (AA)

-Not really a huge fan of Trumbo but he's available, gives us a RH bat in the middle of the lineup and doesn't cost much and my thought is he could hit 40 HR in GABP in a good year. Phillips for Kendrick is basically straight up. I like Phillips a little better but Kendrick is a little cheaper. Taylor Lindsey could platoon with Frazier in 2015 and possibly replace Kendrick when his deal is up. We get our RH bat and get out of Phillips and Ludwick contracts. Angels get their pitcher, better defense and Trumbo to Ludwick is only a small downgrade. This deal saves us $18M this year and $30M over the next several years.

Sign Choo

-6 years/$100M. Because of my earlier deal you can probably front-load the contract some, saving money to extend Cueto or Latos in later years.

Sign Eric Chavez

-1 yr/$3M. Same contract he had this year. He'll platoon with Frazier.

Hannahan > ATL > Janish

-Janish can't hit a beach ball but he's got a good glove and cheap. I like Billy Hamilton in a semi-supersub kind of role where I can pinch-run him once a game (puts him on base as much as if he started), but his infield D would be suspect so thus Janish.


LINEUP
Choo, CF
Kendrick, 2B
Votto, 1B
Trumbo, LF
Bruce, RF
Mesoraco, C
Frazier/Chavez, 3B
Cozart, SS

BENCH
Hamilton, IF/OF
Janish, IF
Paul, OF
Hanigan, C

STARTERS
Cueto
Latos
Bailey
Cingrani
Chapman

PEN
Broxton
Marshall
Simon
Hoover
Lecure
Ondrusek
Parra

I like your's better than mine but think my trades are a little more realistic. I would also be uncomfortable with the lack of SP depth with this squad. Good effort though... :)

PepperJack
11-01-2013, 10:28 AM
Bailey, Phillips, Ludwick > LAA > Trumbo, Kendrick, Taylor Lindsey (AA)

-Not really a huge fan of Trumbo but he's available, gives us a RH bat in the middle of the lineup and doesn't cost much and my thought is he could hit 40 HR in GABP in a good year. Phillips for Kendrick is basically straight up. I like Phillips a little better but Kendrick is a little cheaper. Taylor Lindsey could platoon with Frazier in 2015 and possibly replace Kendrick when his deal is up. We get our RH bat and get out of Phillips and Ludwick contracts. Angels get their pitcher, better defense and Trumbo to Ludwick is only a small downgrade. This deal saves us $18M this year and $30M over the next several years.

Sign Choo

-6 years/$100M. Because of my earlier deal you can probably front-load the contract some, saving money to extend Cueto or Latos in later years.

Sign Eric Chavez

-1 yr/$3M. Same contract he had this year. He'll platoon with Frazier.

Hannahan > ATL > Janish

-Janish can't hit a beach ball but he's got a good glove and cheap. I like Billy Hamilton in a semi-supersub kind of role where I can pinch-run him once a game (puts him on base as much as if he started), but his infield D would be suspect so thus Janish.


LINEUP
Choo, CF
Kendrick, 2B
Votto, 1B
Trumbo, LF
Bruce, RF
Mesoraco, C
Frazier/Chavez, 3B
Cozart, SS

BENCH
Hamilton, IF/OF
Janish, IF
Paul, OF
Hanigan, C

STARTERS
Cueto
Latos
Bailey
Cingrani
Chapman

PEN
Broxton
Marshall
Simon
Hoover
Lecure
Ondrusek
Parra


I think this will be hard for Homer to pull off. Unless we have mastered cloning, and no one told me. ;)

Dan
11-01-2013, 12:55 PM
Part 1:
Phillips, Bailey and Guillon(or another lottery ticket) to LAA for Trumbo, Kendrick and Kole Calhoun (1.017 OPS in AAA)

Part 2:
Sign Choo 4+1/$72M+$5M

Part 3:
Make Chapman a starter

Other around the edge moves would be strengthening the bench and further development of Hamilton, Stephenson, Ervin and Winker.

*BaseClogger*
11-01-2013, 01:11 PM
Part 1:
Phillips, Bailey and Guillon(or another lottery ticket) to LAA for Trumbo, Kendrick and Kole Calhoun (1.017 OPS in AAA)

Part 2:
Sign Choo 4+1/$72M+$5M

Part 3:
Make Chapman a starter

Other around the edge moves would be strengthening the bench and further development of Hamilton, Stephenson, Ervin and Winker.

That would really hurt the team's defense...

Kc61
11-01-2013, 05:50 PM
I think this is a relatively easy exercise if you can begin with "Sign Choo." If that happens, then Walt will have a more readily achievable job.

If only it were that simple. I'm afraid that the Reds won't be able to sign Choo. Then this exercise becomes much more difficult.

I can't guess moves yet, no rumors available, but I can envision something like this:

1. Add a couple of relatively inexpensive free agents, Pierzinsky and DeJesus. Pierzynski teams with Mes. DeJesus teams with Hamilton.

2. Consider a trade for Sandoval. Not sure who Giants would want, but maybe Ludwick or Frazier along with a Heisey or Hanigan gets it done. Maybe a prospect too.

3. Try to sign Bailey, if he won't, package him and a couple of other players (Ludwick, Hanigan, a prospect, whatever) for a LF, Kemp or Ethier or Bautista perhaps. Others would be in the deal.

4. In these trades try to get a couple of relievers so Chapman can move to the rotation.

5. Add a depth pitcher for the rotation. Bruce Chen? Somebody cheaper than Arroyo who can camp out in the bullpen while awaiting the returns on Chapman as starter.

6. Salary flexibility provided by loss of Choo, Arroyo, maybe Bailey, Ludwick in these deals.

malcontent
11-01-2013, 05:54 PM
5. Add a depth pitcher for the rotation. Bruce Chen? Somebody cheaper than Arroyo who can camp out in the bullpen while awaiting the returns on Chapman as starter.
Capuano?

Kc61
11-01-2013, 05:56 PM
Capuano?

He would be fine as well. Somebody who can pitch some relief and be an insurance starter of decent quality.

Roy Tucker
11-01-2013, 08:32 PM
5. Add a depth pitcher for the rotation. Bruce Chen? Somebody cheaper than Arroyo who can camp out in the bullpen while awaiting the returns on Chapman as starter.


I feel like I fell into a time warp.

Krusty
11-01-2013, 09:02 PM
Let me give this a shot:

1. Trade a couple of minor leaguers to Oakland and pick up centerfielder Coco Crisp. Have him leadoff and give Billy Hamilton another year in Triple A for more seasoning.

2. Keep Brandon Phillips. Yes, he is the mouth that roars but gold glovers don't grow on trees. Put him in the second spot of the lineup behind Crisp. If the Reds are determined to move him, sending him to the Diamondbacks for Aaron Hill and another player might make some sense.

3. Get a righthand hitter to play LF and bat in the middle of the order. Ludwick and Heisey are great fourth outfielders but you need that bopper so Votto doesn't get pitched around. Milwaukee's Khris Davis isn't established yet but has great potential. And with Ryan Braun returning next year, there is no room for him in Milwaukee's outfield. A deal of Leake and Heisey for Davis might work given Milwaukee's need for pitching.

4. Finally with the departure of Arroyo and the trade of Leake, that opens up spots in the rotation for Cingrani and Chapman. If Broxton isn't ready to start the season, give Hoover first shot at the closer's role.

Will M
11-01-2013, 10:32 PM
1. Choo
2. Salty
3. Eric Chavez

757690
11-03-2013, 10:26 PM
1. Trade Bailey and Phillips to the Blue Jays for Colby Rasmus and Brett Lowrie

2. Sign A.J. Burnett to 2 year deal for $25M

3. Sign. Mark Ellis

mth123
11-03-2013, 10:59 PM
1. Trade Bailey and Phillips to the Blue Jays for Colby Rasmus and Brett Lowrie

2. Sign A.J. Burnett to 2 year deal for $25M

3. Sign. Mark Ellis

I like number one, but I'm not sure the Jays would do it. Bailey for Rasmus in a straight-up of rentals wouldn't be bad at all. Brett Lawrie is kind of a carbon copy of Todd Frazier, but would be worth doing because of his age and years of control. If the deal boils down to Phillips for Lawrie, I'm all in, but the Jays would just be trading one problem for another while taking on a bunch of money. Can't see them falling for that one.

Ellis as a cheap backfill for Phillips would be OK.

Burnett won't be coming though. He's already said he wants to re-up with the Pirates or retire. My guess is he gets a QO and accepts. If Chapman moves to the rotation, I'd rather give that money to a catcher who can hit against RHP.

Bailey for Rasmus
Sign Salty
Sign Eric Chavez.

757690
11-03-2013, 11:23 PM
I like number one, but I'm not sure the Jays would do it. Bailey for Rasmus in a straight-up of rentals wouldn't be bad at all. Brett Lawrie is kind of a carbon copy of Todd Frazier, but would be worth doing because of his age and years of control. If the deal boils down to Phillips for Lawrie, I'm all in, but the Jays would just be trading one problem for another while taking on a bunch of money. Can't see them falling for that one.

Ellis as a cheap backfill for Phillips would be OK.

Burnett won't be coming though. He's already said he wants to re-up with the Pirates or retire. My guess is he gets a QO and accepts. If Chapman moves to the rotation, I'd rather give that money to a catcher who can hit against RHP.

Bailey for Rasmus
Sign Salty
Sign Eric Chavez.

Thanks for the info on Burnett. If the Reds trade Bailey, and I think they should, they should use that money saved on a vet starting pitcher, as they will need innings with injuries of Cueto, Latos and Cingrani, and the uncertainty of Chapman in the rotation.

As for Phillips for Lowrie, you're right the money doesn't make sense, but the talent does, which might make up for that. Maybe if the Reds took Morrow off the Jay's hands it could work. Jays need a vet 2B, and are disenchanted with Lowrie. At least, it's a starting point of a deal that could make sense. I also think the Jays get an advantage with the Bailey/Rasmus swap.

Benihana
11-03-2013, 11:48 PM
1. Bailey, Heisey and Y.Rodriguez for Jurickson Profar and Leonys Martin.
2. Phillips, Ludwick and Broxton for Matt Kemp and $20 million.
3. Move Chapman to the rotation and let Marshall or Hoover close.

mth123
11-04-2013, 12:19 AM
1. Bailey, Heisey and Y.Rodriguez for Jurickson Profar and Leonys Martin.
2. Phillips, Ludwick and Broxton for Matt Kemp and $20 million.
3. Move Chapman to the rotation and let Marshall or Hoover close.

If Profar is traded, The Rangers are getting David Price or Giancarlo Stanton. Unless Mike Trout or Bryce Harper hit the market, he's not going anywhere unless it's one of those guys. One year of Homer Bailey ain't getting him. Five years of Bailey wouldn't get him IMO.

I could see the Rangers going for a deal involving Bailey and Martin. Bailey and Marshall for Martin, Luis Sardinas and Robbie Ross. I'd do it and be thrilled with it. Chapman into Bailey's spot. Hoover to close. Ross to late inning relief. Money to spend on Parra and a couple of bats.

RedlegJake
11-04-2013, 10:00 AM
Yep. Stories and articles I've been reading are pretty much agreeing with mth - the Rangers are not trading Profar unless they are knocked over in a deal. 1 year of Bailey, YRod and Heisey would not bowl them over. Bailey and Stephenson would bowl them over. And that would be insane. The Rangers will try and trade 1 or 2 other guys to make room for Profar and acquire pitching that way. I expect Kinsler and Cruz will be gone. Neither are enough for Bailey and both make too much money.

The Bailey/Marshall deal is interesting. Do you believe in Leonys Martin? His first full big league season was tantalizing but in the end came up blah. He's 25. His eye popping minor league numbers came in the PCL and Texas Leagues - notorious hitting environments. Sardinhas adds a SS to the system. Good glove - probably no better a hitter than Cozart if that (better OBP less power). Still, he'd fill a glaring need in the system. Robbie Ross is young, controllable and can pitch out of the pen (as he did for Texas) but he also can start (all he did in the minors - successfully). I don't think the talent is entirely equal - Martin is a definite risk of not blooming into anything, Sardinhas may not hit ML pitching but both have pretty high ceilings. Ross is a potential #3 starter and already a good bullpen arm but not as good as either Bailey or Marshall. Big thing for the Reds is enough talent to make shedding that payroll worth it and still keeping both the future and present intact. I think it's the best overall deal going both ways that I've seen proposed.

Old school 1983
11-04-2013, 10:59 AM
I understand that Marshall and Broxton have contracts that may be a bit in the expensive side, but I don't get all of the trade ideas involving them or chapman, or moving those guys and putting chapman in the rotation. Do we really want the back of the pen to be lecure parra and Hoover. They are tough relievers but don't have the swing and miss stuff if the aforementioned three. Last years injuries would make them hard to move as well. Same with ludwick. I think he'll have a solid 2014 and shouldn't be moved unless there's a huge upgrade.

RadfordVA
11-04-2013, 11:18 AM
If Profar is traded, The Rangers are getting David Price or Giancarlo Stanton. Unless Mike Trout or Bryce Harper hit the market, he's not going anywhere unless it's one of those guys. One year of Homer Bailey ain't getting him. Five years of Bailey wouldn't get him IMO.

I could see the Rangers going for a deal involving Bailey and Martin. Bailey and Marshall for Martin, Luis Sardinas and Robbie Ross. I'd do it and be thrilled with it. Chapman into Bailey's spot. Hoover to close. Ross to late inning relief. Money to spend on Parra and a couple of bats.

Maybe last season Profar was that untouchable. Another year has gone by and he is still a guy who has yet to put up great numbers. Yes all the tools are still there but he is a year older without having put it together yet. I would say a lot of teams would have Wil Myers above Profar now and we saw what he got traded for last season. While it would take a nice deal for Rangers it would not have to be Price or Stanton only. At this point I do not see the Rangers as his value is at a low and I do not see teams trading for him for same reason.

757690
11-04-2013, 01:28 PM
Maybe last season Profar was that untouchable. Another year has gone by and he is still a guy who has yet to put up great numbers. Yes all the tools are still there but he is a year older without having put it together yet. I would say a lot of teams would have Wil Myers above Profar now and we saw what he got traded for last season. While it would take a nice deal for Rangers it would not have to be Price or Stanton only. At this point I do not see the Rangers as his value is at a low and I do not see teams trading for him for same reason.

I agree. The shine has worn off Profar just a bit.

The Rays don't need a middle infielder, and Stanton isn't getting traded. After Price and Stanton, there isn't much A-1 talent available for the Rangers to use Profar to get. Now they might just keep him, but in terms of trade offers for him., they aren't going to get much better than Bailey as a centerpiece. Besides the Rangers have never considered years of control an issue. They build the best team they can year to year, and figure they can buy whatever else they need.

RedsManRick
11-04-2013, 02:39 PM
IIRC, RMR has been ahead of the curve, or at least us knuckleheads here in Redszone, most off seasons. Early on after the 2011 season, he argued the Reds should go after Latos, when no one even considered him as a trade target. And before that, I believe he was high on Kuroda before he was an established MLB starter.

I think we need to send his ideas to Walt :)

I'd take a job offer... :beerme:

CaiGuy
11-05-2013, 12:54 PM
I got carried away...


Trade to Toronto:
Bailey
Phillips
Ludwick
Marshal
Broxton

Get from Toronto:
Bautista
Buehrlie
Rasmus
Delabar


Sign peralta to play 2b.

kpresidente
11-05-2013, 04:36 PM
They build the best team they can year to year, and figure they can buy whatever else they need.

But even back when they were making WS runs they wouldn't trade Andrus who was blocked by Michael Young.

Mario-Rijo
11-05-2013, 06:57 PM
I assume you mean 3 major moves, meaning I can make a few smaller moves to tweak the team at the end, right? Ok let's give this a whirl...(And in this order)

Braves get - 2B Brandon Phillips -Why the Braves do it: Get a good defender with offense at 2B, get rid of Uggla.

Royals get - 2B Dan Uggla & LHP Alex Wood - Why the Royals do it: Get a good young arm and some offensive productivity at 2B (yeah Uggla is actually an upgrade to what they have had) and they can DH Uggla at times to mitigate his defensive issues.

Reds get - RHP Wade Davis & 2B/3B/CF Emilio Bonafacio Why the Reds do it: Free up dollars (and improve chemistry?), add innings to the rotation mix and versatility on the bench.

Next....

D-Backs get - RHP Homer Bailey (Get a much needed top of the rotation arm who is ready now and has pitched in a hitters park and they are close to where Homer is from so they feel confident in retaining him)

Astros get -LHP Tyler Skaggs, C Devin Mesoraco & CF Billy Hamilton (Get younger with 3 blue chip prospects one of which is a starting pitcher with top of the rotation upside.)

Reds get - CF Adam Eaton*, 2B Jose Altuve, & C Jason Castro (Reds fill 2 holes at CF & 2B with 2 guys who can hit at the top of the lineup and get a more ready catcher who also happens to hit from the left side.

* Assuming Eaton checks out physically otherwise make it A.J. Pollock

Next...

Reds sign Phil Hughes to a 2 yr deal - Reds teach him a change up and he finally lives up to some of his potential and becomes a solid 3rd starter on a playoff team in 2014.

Minor Trade - Jack Hannahan to Colorado for 2B/SS Josh Rutledge

Your 2014 Reds squad

2B - Jose Altuve
CF - Adam Eaton
1B - Joey Votto
RF - Jay Bruce
LF - Ryan Ludwick
C - Jason Castro
3B - Todd Frazier
SS - Zack Cozart

Ryan Hanigan C
Emilio Bonafacio UT
Chris Heisey OF
Xavier Paul OF
Josh Rutledge MI

Mat Latos
Johnny Cueto
Phil Hughes
Mike Leake
Wade Davis/Cingrani

Chapman
Broxton
Marshall
LeCure
Hoover
Parra
Simon

Plus I would extend Mat Latos now with the savings.

RedsManRick
11-06-2013, 02:02 AM
I have modest ambitions this year.

1. Trade Phillips, etc. to Toronto for Jose Bautista, etc.
2. Sign Omar Infante for 3/25ish
3. Trade Ludwick & Leake to Texas for Leonys Martin, Joakim Soria & and a prospects(?)

Firstly, let me state that I think Phillips 2011 was a BABIP driven aberration. He's a 3 WAR player at this point, which is nothing to complain about but hardly irreplaceable. Infante is a essentially a 90% of Phillips player -- good defender, good contact, few walks, a bit of pop.

This leaves us significantly upgraded in LF, rid of Phillip's attitude/distraction, without adding salary.

Lineup
2B Infante
1B Votto
LF Bautista
RF Bruce
3B Frazier
CA Mesoraco
SS Cozart
SP Pitcher
CF Hamilton/Martin

Rotation
Latos
Cueto
Bailey
Chapman
Cingrani

Bullpen
CL Broxton
SU Marshall
SU LeCure
MR Hoover
MR Soria
MR Parra (Christiani if Parra not re-signed)
LR Simon

Old school 1983
11-06-2013, 10:24 AM
I have modest ambitions this year.

1. Trade Phillips, etc. to Toronto for Jose Bautista, etc.
2. Sign Omar Infante for 3/25ish
3. Trade Ludwick & Leake to Texas for Leonys Martin, Joakim Soria & and a prospects(?)

Firstly, let me state that I think Phillips 2011 was a BABIP driven aberration. He's a 3 WAR player at this point, which is nothing to complain about but hardly irreplaceable. Infante is a essentially a 90% of Phillips player -- good defender, good contact, few walks, a bit of pop.

This leaves us significantly upgraded in LF, rid of Phillip's attitude/distraction, without adding salary.

Lineup
2B Infante
1B Votto
LF Bautista
RF Bruce
3B Frazier
CA Mesoraco
SS Cozart
SP Pitcher
CF Hamilton/Martin

Rotation
Latos
Cueto
Bailey
Chapman
Cingrani

Bullpen
CL Broxton
SU Marshall
SU LeCure
MR Hoover
MR Soria
MR Parra (Christiani if Parra not re-signed)
LR Simon

Seems very similar to what I'd like to do. I think a Phillips/Bautista trade would work nicely for both sides.

*BaseClogger*
11-06-2013, 12:13 PM
Mario-Rijo, your trades aren't actually that unreasonable as they may seem at first glance, although there is no reason Colorado makes that last trade.

RMR has the best simple plan I've seen so far, although I have no idea if that is something Toronto would be willing to do...

Patrick Bateman
11-06-2013, 01:15 PM
I have modest ambitions this year.

1. Trade Phillips, etc. to Toronto for Jose Bautista, etc.
2. Sign Omar Infante for 3/25ish
3. Trade Ludwick & Leake to Texas for Leonys Martin, Joakim Soria & and a prospects(?)

Firstly, let me state that I think Phillips 2011 was a BABIP driven aberration. He's a 3 WAR player at this point, which is nothing to complain about but hardly irreplaceable. Infante is a essentially a 90% of Phillips player -- good defender, good contact, few walks, a bit of pop.



Then why wouldn't the Jays just go after Infante, rather than throwing away their best player to get essentially the same thing?

Krusty
11-06-2013, 05:40 PM
I really like your deal.


I have modest ambitions this year.

1. Trade Phillips, etc. to Toronto for Jose Bautista, etc.
2. Sign Omar Infante for 3/25ish
3. Trade Ludwick & Leake to Texas for Leonys Martin, Joakim Soria & and a prospects(?)

Firstly, let me state that I think Phillips 2011 was a BABIP driven aberration. He's a 3 WAR player at this point, which is nothing to complain about but hardly irreplaceable. Infante is a essentially a 90% of Phillips player -- good defender, good contact, few walks, a bit of pop.

This leaves us significantly upgraded in LF, rid of Phillip's attitude/distraction, without adding salary.

Lineup
2B Infante
1B Votto
LF Bautista
RF Bruce
3B Frazier
CA Mesoraco
SS Cozart
SP Pitcher
CF Hamilton/Martin

Rotation
Latos
Cueto
Bailey
Chapman
Cingrani

Bullpen
CL Broxton
SU Marshall
SU LeCure
MR Hoover
MR Soria
MR Parra (Christiani if Parra not re-signed)
LR Simon

757690
11-06-2013, 08:02 PM
Then why wouldn't the Jays just go after Infante, rather than throwing away their best player to get essentially the same thing?

Because Infante is not the same thing as Phillips. He's really not a full time starting player. Even when he plays around 120 games, his production suffers. If you want a full time starting 2B, you don't sign Infante.

Which is why I don't want the Reds to sign him. He ties up money just like Phillips does, but can't start everyday, and isn't as good when he does play. I'd rather the Reds sign someone like Mark Ellis or Nick Punto. They are shadows of Phillips in terms of production, but they don't hurt the team and will cost next to nothing.

Patrick Bateman
11-06-2013, 09:39 PM
Because Infante is not the same thing as Phillips. He's really not a full time starting player. Even when he plays around 120 games, his production suffers. If you want a full time starting 2B, you don't sign Infante.

Which is why I don't want the Reds to sign him. He ties up money just like Phillips does, but can't start everyday, and isn't as good when he does play. I'd rather the Reds sign someone like Mark Ellis or Nick Punto. They are shadows of Phillips in terms of production, but they don't hurt the team and will cost next to nothing.

I agree, but was responding to the thought that he was basically the same thing, yet the Jays even in that world would be giving away Bautista to go after the extra 10%?

RedsManRick
11-06-2013, 09:56 PM
Then why wouldn't the Jays just go after Infante, rather than throwing away their best player to get essentially the same thing?

1. Because They may not feel the same way about Infante as I do.
2. Because just signing Infante adds salary, which they may want to do.
3. Because trading Bautista opens up a spot for Anthony Gose.
4. Because word is that they're looking to shake things up.

I didn't specify as much, but I think the Reds would have to add a decent prospect, say Lamarre or Travieso, to get just Bautista.

Kc61
11-06-2013, 11:50 PM
1. Because They may not feel the same way about Infante as I do.
2. Because just signing Infante adds salary, which they may want to do.
3. Because trading Bautista opens up a spot for Anthony Gose.
4. Because word is that they're looking to shake things up.

I didn't specify as much, but I think the Reds would have to add a decent prospect, say Lamarre or Travieso, to get just Bautista.

These trades seem reasonable but they leave the Reds with a pretty flawed ballclub IMO. The batting order is a big risk after the fourth spot. The starting rotation lacks depth. The bullpen has several health issues.

All of which shows that it will be difficult for the Reds to improve much this off-season if they first have to fill the Choo spot. It's a tall order to fill that spot AND add more players who improve the club.

RedsManRick
11-07-2013, 03:17 AM
These trades seem reasonable but they leave the Reds with a pretty flawed ballclub IMO. The batting order is a big risk after the fourth spot. The starting rotation lacks depth. The bullpen has several health issues.

All of which shows that it will be difficult for the Reds to improve much this off-season if they first have to fill the Choo spot. It's a tall order to fill that spot AND add more players who improve the club.

Well, you can't realistically address all of those problems in 3 moves or less. If I had more moves to work with, I'd probably have done more.

Kc61
11-07-2013, 11:03 AM
Well, you can't realistically address all of those problems in 3 moves or less. If I had more moves to work with, I'd probably have done more.

This is my point, without Choo I envision a number of moves, it's tough to fix things with only three.

If I were going to trade Ludwick and Leake, I think I'd try for a good hitting starting player in the deal. Even if I had to add a prospect.

No use trading away starting pitching depth without improving the offense.

Whatever, it will be interesting just to see the Reds finally add a major league player to the roster, whoever he is.

Dan
11-07-2013, 11:48 AM
1. Phillips to the Yankees for Gardner (this was proposed by someone in another thread and is probably dependent on Cano signing elsewhere, although BP at 2b and Cano at 3b or DH might appeal to them too)
2. Sign Omar Infante to play 2b (how much would he cost?)
3. Sign Arroyo to a 2 year $20M contract with a 3rd year option/buyout at $4M (with Stephenson likely ready by mid-year, and Chapman maybe moving to the rotation, this gives great starting depth and flexibility to trade someone like Bailey or Leake)

joshua
11-07-2013, 12:43 PM
My off season priority would be giving the farm system a jolt and working to compete with the Cardinals/Cubs/Pirates the last half of the decade.

1. Trade Bailey to the Rangers for Luis Sardinas and Nick Williams

2. Trade Brandon Phillips to the Orioles for Jonathan Schoop and Eduardo Rodriguez

3. Sign Omar Infante to play second base until someone is ready to come up.


Another possibility for moving Bailey would be Minnesota. They are desperate for good starting pitching. If we could get two of Buxton/Rosario/Sano for Bailey, I'd do that in a second...and of course this would depend on Minnesota being able to sign him long term, both reasons why I think this would be more of a pipe dream, but it'd be at least worth looking into.

Other teams that would fit into possible deals: Boston and Kansas City. Both the Sox and Royals are good at developing position players, but don't seem to have much luck producing pitching.

I just don't think the team is going to be able to make a run a the World Series next year without Choo and a re-tooling of the lineup. I'd hate to see Bailey leave for free agency and the Reds getting nothing out of it other than a draft pick. The Rays are determined to move their starting pitching in the last few years of their contracts and it ends up working out for them. There's no reason we should be doing any different when guys start getting more expensive and we have cheaper pitchers coming out of the farm system who are ready to contribute.

RadfordVA
11-07-2013, 01:02 PM
Realistic as possible. Would not be against dealing Phillips and especially Bailey but no clue what the return would be so some smaller more possible moves.

1. Get Jordan Schaffer from Braves. Perhaps they would like Hanigan with Mccann leaving. Had 4th highest walk pct among CF last season against RHB. Platoon with Bourgeois in CF who gets on base against lefties. That seems to be cheapest option of getting you close to Choo's on base skills. Doesn't work give Hamilton a shot later.

2. Sign Pierzynksi to split time with Mesoraco. Gives a lefty catching option and lots of experience to counter Mesoraco.

3. Start Chapman and see where it goes.

Lineup

1. Schafer/Bourgeois
2. Frazier
3. Votto
4. Bruce
5. Ludwick/Paul platoon
6. Phillips
7. Mesoraco/Pierzynski
8. Cozart

RedsfaninMT
11-07-2013, 06:25 PM
1. Sign Choo and Handy Manny
2. Trade Bailey to Angels for Trumbo and Taylor Lindsey.
3. Trade BP to Yankees for 2 good prospects, move Hamilton to 2B

Lineup:
Choo
Hamilton
Votto
Trumbo
Bruce
Mez
Frazier
Cozart

Ludwick is an important bat off the bench.

Rotation: Latos, Cueto, Chapman, Leake, Cingrani
Pen: Marshall, Broxton, Lecure, Hoover, Simon, Parra, Ondrusek

AmarilloRed
11-07-2013, 08:07 PM
The Rangers have just extended Martin Perez for 4 years with a lot of options. How does that affect trading starting pitching to the Rangers?

bucksfan2
11-08-2013, 10:38 AM
There has been too much talk and smoke about BP being traded for it not to happen. My problem is I just don't really see where to. It will have to be a big market team willing to pony up for BP as well as a team who is close to contention. Cano is obviously the big fish who I think goes to either LA or NYY. That pretty much dwindles it down to either one of those who don't get Cano, the Mets, Giants, and maybe a team like Seattle, Washington, or Toronto. That said I think he gets traded for salary relief and maybe a nice prospect. So my off season would be:

1) Trade Phillips
2) Sign Choo 4 years/$60M
3) Sign Infante 3 years/$15M

I don't have a problem paying a guy like Choo as he gets older because he can move to LF and I don't see much of an erosion of his OBP as he gets older. Infante gives the Reds a little bit of flexibility, something they have sorely missed over the past few years. I will miss Phillips, but I just don't see a way he returns to the Reds. I think that as the season draws along Hamilton will be your starting CF and Ludwick will see his playing time diminish with Choo moving to LF.

I roll the dice with the current pitching. I would like to see Bailey extended bit at some point you have to pick and chose your battles.

*BaseClogger*
11-08-2013, 11:09 AM
There has been too much talk and smoke about BP being traded for it not to happen. My problem is I just don't really see where to. It will have to be a big market team willing to pony up for BP as well as a team who is close to contention. Cano is obviously the big fish who I think goes to either LA or NYY. That pretty much dwindles it down to either one of those who don't get Cano, the Mets, Giants, and maybe a team like Seattle, Washington, or Toronto. That said I think he gets traded for salary relief and maybe a nice prospect. So my off season would be:

1) Trade Phillips
2) Sign Choo 4 years/$60M
3) Sign Infante 3 years/$15M

I don't have a problem paying a guy like Choo as he gets older because he can move to LF and I don't see much of an erosion of his OBP as he gets older. Infante gives the Reds a little bit of flexibility, something they have sorely missed over the past few years. I will miss Phillips, but I just don't see a way he returns to the Reds. I think that as the season draws along Hamilton will be your starting CF and Ludwick will see his playing time diminish with Choo moving to LF.

I roll the dice with the current pitching. I would like to see Bailey extended bit at some point you have to pick and chose your battles.

Those contracts are way off.

Throw Detroit and Kansas City into the BP ring as well...

RadfordVA
11-08-2013, 11:30 AM
The Rangers have just extended Martin Perez for 4 years with a lot of options. How does that affect trading starting pitching to the Rangers?

He was already signed through the majority of those season so not much I would think. If they sign Garza or another Free Agent then that would pretty much end it. They currently have 4 pitchers they certainly want in rotation. Darvish, Holland, Harrison and Perez.

RiverRat13
11-08-2013, 03:01 PM
1. Sign Brayan Pena
2. ?
3. Profit.

Krusty
11-08-2013, 06:47 PM
Here is my slobber-knocker moves:

1. Brandon Phillips to Colorado for OF Dexter Fowler and second baseman D.J. LeMahieu.

Rockies are looking for another hitter and are making Fowler expendable. Fowler takes over in CF while Hamilton spends another season at Triple A working on his skills. D.J. LeMahieu makes an excellent number 2 hitter in the lineup behind Fowler and ahead of Votto.

2. Homer Bailey to the Los Angeles Angels for Mark Trumbo.

Angels need a starting pitcher and the Reds need a righthand hitter for the middle of the lineup. And while Trumbo would be no gold glover in LF, he can't be that much worse than Ludwick. Plus, you have Heisey to come in late the game for defensive purposes.

So how would the roster look?

1. Fowler CF
2. LeMahieu, 2b
3. Votto lb
4. Trumbo LF
5. Bruce RF
6. Frazier 3b
7. Mesoraco c
8. Cozart

Starting pitching
1. Latos rhp
2. Cueto rhp
3. Chapman lhp
4. Leake rhp
5. Cingrani

Bullpen
1. Hoover rhp
2. Marshall lhp
3. LeCure
4. Simon
5 & 6. Ondrusek or Partch or Christiani
7 Broxton. (If he isn't ready then a left handed relief pitcher picked up in free agency).

Bench
1. Heisey OF
2. Ludwick OF
3. Hannahan 3b-2b
4. Hanigan
5. Middle infielder

bob jones
11-11-2013, 04:17 PM
get nelson cruz

Old school 1983
11-12-2013, 01:26 PM
1. Phillips, hanigan, lutz or soto (hopefully soto) to Toronto for Bautista.
2. Sign infante or Ellis for 2b
3. Sign Chavez to platoon at 3b

Contingency: if it's dictated that chapman must be moved into the rotation then cueto to Minnesota for Sano, Meyer, and Rosario

Sign brain Wilson to incentive based deal to close.

Lineup:
Hamilton Cf
Votto 1b
Bautista LF
Bruce Rf
Mesoraco c
Frazier/Chavez
Infante/Ellis
Cozart

BungleBengals
11-12-2013, 03:00 PM
1. Phillips, Ludwick, Hanigan, Corcino to Blue Jays for Bautista and mid level prospect

2. Sign Choo to 5 year $100M deal with mutual option of $20M in 2019

3. Move Hamilton to 2B (one of Fay's ideas) and sign Bloomquist 1 year for $1.2M

I think my number 1 would be hard to swallow for Jays considering the financials. But I think that Ludwick gives them a LF and they still have OF depth in case of injury or Gose needs more development. Also, Corcino gives them a former top 100 prospect that can be added to their otherwise terrible rotation in the near future. Basically, using him to help them take on Ludwick.

Choo probably gets more money elsewhere, but perhaps gives us a small discount and mutual option gets it done.

Fay's recent speculation has me believe that Hamilton could be a 2B since his arm is what was the problem at SS. Bloomquist can play both SS and 2B and he is a cheap veteran. Perfect Walt signing, plus he hit pretty well last season so he could add some offensive help off the bench.

2014 Lineup

2B Hamilton
CF Choo
1B Votto
LF Bautista
RF Bruce
3B Frazier
C Mesoraco
SS Cozart

Dan
11-26-2013, 11:32 PM
I need four moves:

Re-sign Arroyo for 2/20 plus a 3rd year option
Sign Beltran for 2/20
Trade Bailey and Hanigan to the Twins for Sano, Dozier and Doumit
Trade Philips to the Yankees for Nova or the Braves for a ML arm comparable to Nova

1b Votto
2b Dozier
SS Cozart
3b Frazier
LF Ludwick/Beltran
CF Beltran/Hamilton
RF Bruce
C Mez

SP Latos
SP Cueto
SP Arroyo
SP Leake
SP Cingrani
CL Chapman

Bench
IF/OF Schumaker
IF/OF Doumit
IF/OF Hamilton
OF Paul
C Pena

Benihana
11-27-2013, 12:32 AM
I need four moves:

Re-sign Arroyo for 2/20 plus a 3rd year option
Sign Beltran for 2/20
Trade Bailey and Hanigan to the Twins for Sano, Dozier and Doumit
Trade Philips to the Yankees for Nova or the Braves for a ML arm comparable to Nova

1b Votto
2b Dozier
SS Cozart
3b Frazier
LF Ludwick/Beltran
CF Beltran/Hamilton
RF Bruce
C Mez

SP Latos
SP Cueto
SP Arroyo
SP Leake
SP Cingrani
CL Chapman

Bench
IF/OF Schumaker
IF/OF Doumit
IF/OF Hamilton
OF Paul
C Pena

I'd be cool with the two signings. Would drop Hanigan, Dozier and Doumit from your deal to make it Bailey for Sano straight up. And I wouldn't think of trading Phillips in your proposals. Why not just keep him? Trade Hanigan for a Red Sox top 10 prospect.

vottofan4life
11-27-2013, 12:51 AM
1. Trade Phillips+ to A's for Cespedes+ (A's need upgrade at 2b and are lookin for a big bat plus have depth in outfield) (Cespedes plays centerfield)

2. Sign Beltran to play leftfield

3. Homer Bailey, Ryan Hanigan, John Broxton, and prospect for Martin Prado and Heath Bell...allows us to put Prado at 3rd while putting Frazier back into the super utility role he thrived in and Heath Bell will only have a year left on his contract I believe

4. Put Hamilton at 2nd

5. Don't wake me up

Dan
11-27-2013, 08:25 AM
I'd be cool with the two signings. Would drop Hanigan, Dozier and Doumit from your deal to make it Bailey for Sano straight up. And I wouldn't think of trading Phillips in your proposals. Why not just keep him? Trade Hanigan for a Red Sox top 10 prospect.

I can see your point on keeping Phillips. But I still want more for Bailey than Sano. I'm not one that falls in love with prospects that I would want to deal for one straight up for a pitcher that's seen multiple successful years in the majors. Sano + a major league arm (Duensing?) might be a good starting point if we drop Dozier and Doumit.

TRF
11-27-2013, 02:42 PM
My 3 move plan is a contingent plan.

If Choo accepts QO

1. Offer Leake and Phillips to A's for Cespedes. (they'll say no.) If they say yes, move Hamilton to 2B immediately. He starts at 2B in 2013 for the Reds.

2. Cingrani takes Leake's place in the rotation (actually he takes Arroyo's place.) Offer Arroyo, Marcum, Colon, Hughes, Haren, Garza a 2 year deal around 9 mil per year.

3. Start Chapman in ST. Seems it makes him very effective as a closer when he starts ST.

If Choo rejects QO

Same thing but offer contract to one or two of Ellsbury, Nix, D. Young

In both scenarios I DFA Ludwick.

mth123
11-28-2013, 03:04 AM
1. Three way deal with Rockies and Royals. Royals get Brandon Phillips and Daniel Corcino, Rockies get Aaron Crow, Tim Collins, Emilio Bonifacio and Chris Heisey. Reds get Dexter Fowler and Josh Rutledge.

2. Mike Leake to the Angels for Howie Kendrick

3. Ryan Hanigan to the Red Sox for Brandon Workman

Fowler CF
Kendrick 2B
Votto 1B
Bruce RF
Ludwick LF
Frazier 3B
Mesoraco C
Cozart SS

Pena C
Schumaker 2B/OF
Rutledge IF
Paul OF
Hannahan IF

Latos
Cueto
Bailey
Cingrani
Chapman

Hoover
Marshall
Broxton
Lecure
Parra
Simon
Ondrusek, Workman, et al

MoneyInTheBank
11-28-2013, 10:09 AM
mth, are you worried about Fowler outside of Coors? Or do you think it's more of a "comfort at home no matter where that may be"?

Tony Cloninger
11-28-2013, 10:52 AM
Convince The Yankees to take BP for Brett Gardner...since Cano just signed with the Tigers ...out of the blue.

Trade Homer Bailey, Mike Leake and Ondrusek to the Angels for Trumbo and Kendrick. This is based on Chapman being convinced to join the rotation.

If he does not.....than I convince the Angels to take Heisey and Nick Christian....and tell them it is quantity over quality.

I would have signed Smith from Cleveland, but that is too late.

I go after the former Twin and White Sox reliever who's name escapes me right now but had a great year last year before being traded to a contender.

vottofan4life
11-28-2013, 11:06 AM
Convince The Yankees to take BP for Brett Gardner...since Cano just signed with the Tigers ...out of the blue.

Trade Homer Bailey, Mike Leake and Ondrusek to the Angels for Trumbo and Kendrick. This is based on Chapman being convinced to join the rotation.

If he does not.....than I convince the Angels to take Heisey and Nick Christian....and tell them it is quantity over quality.

I would have signed Smith from Cleveland, but that is too late.

I go after the former Twin and White Sox reliever who's name escapes me right now but had a great year last year before being traded to a contender.

Cano never signed with tigers? and the reliever you're talking about is jesse crain i believe

Tony Cloninger
11-28-2013, 11:29 AM
Cano never signed with tigers? and the reliever you're talking about is jesse crain i believe

The trade is predicated on Cano signing with another team. It was more of a nice dream I had than anything else.

I even had the Cardinals trading for Andrus because they got desperate and gave up Carlos Martinez and Shelby Miller to get him.

To be serious.... Cano signing elsewhere is not that far fetched and could lead to the Yankees trading for BP. The cardinal thing was a nice dream, even before they signed Peralta. I was just hoping they would get desperate.
Which they did by getting Peralta but gave up nothing but money they have enough of to do it. I would have preferred they traded some of their younger players.

mth123
11-28-2013, 01:53 PM
mth, are you worried about Fowler outside of Coors? Or do you think it's more of a "comfort at home no matter where that may be"?

GABP is a hitters park too. If I was The Padres, Dodgers or Giants I might worry about it more. But that's another thing. A large portion of his "outside of Coors" is played in SF, SD and LA, three places that are not hitter friendly. I don't think the switch to GABP from Coors will hurt him much at home and the mix of road parks should be much more favorable outside of the NL West.

Even if he suffers a bit from a move out of Coors, he should still be exponentially better than any of the in house options. I don't see Choo, Ellsbury or even Granderson signing with the Reds. One of the Dodgers (Kemp or Ethier) is probably too expensive. The alternatives are scrap heap guys like Gutierrez and Schumaker or staying with Heisey and Hamilton. I'll take Fowler all day, every day in comparison to those alternatives.

757690
11-28-2013, 02:13 PM
GABP is a hitters park too. If I was The Padres, Dodgers or Giants I might worry about it more. But that's another thing. A large portion of his "outside of Coors" is played in SF, SD and LA, three places that are not hitter friendly. I don't think the switch to GABP from Coors will hurt him much at home and the mix of road parks should be much more favorable outside of the NL West.

Even if he suffers a bit from a move out of Coors, he should still be exponentially better than any of the in house options. I don't see Choo, Ellsbury or even Granderson signing with the Reds. One of the Dodgers (Kemp or Ethier) is probably too expensive. The alternatives are scrap heap guys like Gutierrez and Schumaker or staying with Heisey and Hamilton. I'll take Fowler all day, every day in comparison to those alternatives.

That's an excellent point about his road splits. Guys who play in Coors, have to play a big chunk of their road games in pitchers parks in SD, SF and LA. It's a big reason why Rockies players have such big home/road splits.

Fowler has hit well in GABP, and his biggest weakness, his range defensively, shouldn't be as big of an issue in GABP as opposed to Coors. He's a really good fit for the Reds.

kpresidente
11-28-2013, 02:47 PM
GABP isn't a hitters park, it's a homerun hitters park. There is a difference.

kpresidente
11-28-2013, 03:15 PM
But that's another thing. A large portion of his "outside of Coors" is played in SF, SD and LA, three places that are not hitter friendly.

Neither are Bush and PNC. Not quite as extreme but close. Besides, you're looking at 30 games he played at the pitchers parks vs. 100 in Coors and Chase Field. That's pretty dramatic difference.

PuffyPig
11-28-2013, 03:19 PM
My 3 move plan is a contingent plan.

If Choo accepts QO

1. Offer Leake and Phillips to A's for Cespedes. (they'll say no.) If they say yes, move Hamilton to 2B immediately. He starts at 2B in 2013 for the Reds.

2. Cingrani takes Leake's place in the rotation (actually he takes Arroyo's place.) Offer Arroyo, Marcum, Colon, Hughes, Haren, Garza a 2 year deal around 9 mil per year.

3. Start Chapman in ST. Seems it makes him very effective as a closer when he starts ST.

If Choo rejects QO

Same thing but offer contract to one or two of Ellsbury, Nix, D. Young

In both scenarios I DFA Ludwick.

Choo turned down the QO long ago.

mth123
11-28-2013, 03:21 PM
Neither are Bush and PNC. Not quite as extreme but close. Besides, you're looking at 30 games he played at the pitchers parks vs. 100 in Coors and Chase Field. That's pretty dramatic difference.

Fowler is not a great player or an all star, but even outside of Coors he's way better than the in house options, and in the deals I've proposed, nothing I'd be worried about losing is going the other way for the upgrade. He seems to struggle a bit against RHP, skippy could play those days. Phillips and the long term obligation needs to go, Corcino spit the bit in 2013 and Heisey's arb status is pricing himself out of being useful.

Fowler would give the Reds a chance in the short term that they won't have with Status Quo and getting out from under Phillips improves the long term.

kpresidente
11-28-2013, 03:24 PM
Don't get me wrong, I like your trade, and Fowler is def an upgrade, but I think if people are expecting anything close to an .800 OPS they'll be disappointed.

757690
11-28-2013, 03:33 PM
Don't get me wrong, I like your trade, and Fowler is def an upgrade, but I think if people are expecting anything close to an .800 OPS they'll be disappointed.

I'm guessing in GAPB, and it's just a wild guess, not supported by in depth research, Fowler would put up a .750ish OPS, driven by a .350ish OBP, which as a leadoff hitter, providing league average defense in CF, would make him a very valuable player for the Reds.

mth123
11-28-2013, 03:36 PM
Don't get me wrong, I like your trade, and Fowler is def an upgrade, but I think if people are expecting anything close to an .800 OPS they'll be disappointed.

.725 would be about 150 OPS points more than Billy Hamilton and he'd be the Reds third or fourth best bat with that number depending on how far back Ludwick comes. More than that would be gravy.

kpresidente
11-28-2013, 03:42 PM
1. Cueto and Ludwick > TOR > Bautista and Rasmus
2. Hanigan > TBR > Beckham

Fills the holes convincingly (CF, RH power) and still leaves a strong enough rotation, IMO. I look at the pitchers I can see trading Cueto as well as any of them...

Cueto - Ace of the staff but also biggest return and some injury history
Latos - Good contract and dependable, can't see trading him at all.
Bailey - Everybody says he's an ace in the making. Comes with a pick at the end of next year
Leake - Middling, but his GB% fits GABP better than other places and showed real improvement in his peripherals.
Cingrani - Excellent so far. Questionable future but you can't trade him on the rookie contract
Chapman - If he dominates you'll regret moving him with years of control left.

kpresidente
11-28-2013, 04:59 PM
Updating my last one:

1. Cueto, Ludwick, Hanigan > Bautista and Rasmus
2. Sign Stephen Drew > 3 yrs/$30M [$8/$10/$12]

- The Toronto deal breaks even salary wise in the 1st two years, which is why I have the money to sign Drew. I think I'm around $115M total.

That gives:

LINEUP
Drew, SS*
Phillips, 2B
Votto, 1B
Bautista, LF
Bruce, RF
Frazier, 3B
Rasmus, CF
Mesoraco, CA

- Nice, balanced (R/L) lineup all the way through. No easy outs.
* See Drew's splits batting leadoff.

BENCH
Schumaker, OF
Heisey, CF
Cozart, IF
Hannahan, 3B
Pena, CA

- Adding Cozart makes it a strong bench. Paul > Lousville

ROTATION
Bailey
Latos
Leake
Cingrani
Chapman

- Losing Cueto hurts but Bautisa/Rasmus > Choo/Paul defensively so the rest of the staff should get a boost.

BULLPEN (in order of innings)
Marshall
Simon
Hoover
LeCure
Broxton
Parra
Ondrusek

- Except for Parra/Ondrusek as LOOGY/ROOGY, forget the whole "roles" thing, just pitch whoever's rested and ready to go.

Will M
11-29-2013, 06:31 PM
1. Three way deal with Rockies and Royals. Royals get Brandon Phillips and Daniel Corcino, Rockies get Aaron Crow, Tim Collins, Emilio Bonifacio and Chris Heisey. Reds get Dexter Fowler and Josh Rutledge.

2. Mike Leake to the Angels for Howie Kendrick

3. Ryan Hanigan to the Red Sox for Brandon Workman

Fowler CF
Kendrick 2B
Votto 1B
Bruce RF
Ludwick LF
Frazier 3B
Mesoraco C
Cozart SS

Pena C
Schumaker 2B/OF
Rutledge IF
Paul OF
Hannahan IF

Latos
Cueto
Bailey
Cingrani
Chapman

Hoover
Marshall
Broxton
Lecure
Parra
Simon
Ondrusek, Workman, et al

The Rockies:
1) want relievers
2) have shown interest in Hanigan
3) want to trade Fowler
4) used LeMahieu instead of Rutlegde down the stretch

The Royals:
1) have relievers they want to trade
2) have shown interest in Phillips

It seems like this situation is ideal for a 3 way deal. Getting Fowler & Rutledge for Phillips, Heisey +/- Hanigan would help the team a lot. The stumbling blocks would be if the Royals didn't want BP's salary and/or if the Rockies didn't want to give up Rutledge.

I'm not sure about trade #2. Couldn't the team use Rutledge at 2B & spot start Schumaker if Rutledge falls into his old ways (hacker) & needs a couple of days off.

MoneyInTheBank
11-29-2013, 07:25 PM
GABP is a hitters park too. If I was The Padres, Dodgers or Giants I might worry about it more. But that's another thing. A large portion of his "outside of Coors" is played in SF, SD and LA, three places that are not hitter friendly. I don't think the switch to GABP from Coors will hurt him much at home and the mix of road parks should be much more favorable outside of the NL West.

Even if he suffers a bit from a move out of Coors, he should still be exponentially better than any of the in house options. I don't see Choo, Ellsbury or even Granderson signing with the Reds. One of the Dodgers (Kemp or Ethier) is probably too expensive. The alternatives are scrap heap guys like Gutierrez and Schumaker or staying with Heisey and Hamilton. I'll take Fowler all day, every day in comparison to those alternatives.

I'm not worried about it either, but I've been a bit gunshy to talk about Fowler after I was in favor of it over in the Sundeck last offseason and you would have thought I insulted the entire board's mothers

OneManBand
11-29-2013, 07:46 PM
Sign Corey Hart to a one year deal w/ incentives: This move has a sub move involved as it would see Bruce move over to CF.

Chapman would move to rotation

Sign Omar Infante to a 3 year deal for 24 Million over that time. Would sign him to play 3rd base/ 2nd if a deal for Phillips were to actually happen. Frazier would be a backup Infielder/OFer

Old school 1983
12-02-2013, 08:56 PM
I've thrown out a few already but it's getting slow so why not try to generate some discussion.

1. To Twins:
Choice of Cueto or Bailey
YRod
Choice of Travieso or Lively
Ryan Hanigan

To Reds:
Sano
Meyer
Rosario

The Twins get a top of rotation starter with a probable draft pick attached when they depart and two low to mid minors high pay off potential lottery tickets.

The Reds get salary relief, and three quality prospects at positions of need in the high minors.

2. To Royals:
Brandon Phillips

To Reds:
Yordano Ventura

Ventura is Major League ready and can bring the heat. If Chapman starts, close Ventura or vise versa.

3. Sign Carlos Beltran and Rafael Furcal

Solidifies the lineup with a top notch bat that won't require the commitment of a Choo. Adds a real SS backup with the ability to start in case of injury or low production.

I think this would cover the present with solid veterans who are under short term deals as well as brings big time prospect talent into the system that could replace the veterans when their contracts are up.

Lineup:

Hamilton CF
Votto 1B
Beltran LF
Bruce RF
Mesoraco C
Frazier 3B
Cozart 2B
Furcal SS

Rotation:
Latos
Bailey or Cueto
Cingrani
Leake
Chapman/Ventura

Bench:
Ludwick
Heisey
Shumaker
Hannahan
Pena

Pen:
Parra
Simon
Lecure
Hoover
Marshall
Broxton
Ventura/Chapman

But by the end of the year you could have Stephenson or Meyer or both rotation ready or maybe Sano or Rosario ready for the lineup. Winker and or Ervin may be close as well. In the mean time you'd have veteran depth in the bigs that wouldn't cost many years or commitment and block prospects.

mth123
12-02-2013, 09:13 PM
Rosario just got busted for PEDs. Get Dozier instead

Old school 1983
12-02-2013, 09:15 PM
Rosario just got busted for PEDs. Get Dozier instead

Wasn't aware, but I totally agree with you.