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texasdave
11-14-2012, 01:06 PM
Torii Hunter to Detroit.

http://tracking.si.com/2012/11/14/torii-hunter-signs-two-year-deal-tigers/?sct=hp_t2_a3&eref=sihp

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/tigers-to-sign-torii-hunter.html

alett12
11-14-2012, 01:53 PM
good sign for the tigers, much less expensive than hamilton but still adds alot to the outfield

HometownHero
11-16-2012, 02:14 PM
Reports are the Jays added another named player signing Melky Cabrera for 2 years and 16M

[deleted]
11-16-2012, 02:39 PM
Melky signed with Toronto for 2/16.

I wish we had jumped on that.

texasdave
11-16-2012, 02:48 PM
;2777935']Melky signed with Toronto for 2/16.

I wish we had jumped on that.

Ditto.

webbbj
11-16-2012, 03:02 PM
wow, i would have loved to get melky at that price

40YrRedsFan
11-16-2012, 03:18 PM
Are Walt & Co. going to do anything? I would have jumped on Cabrera. He is several years
younger than Ludwick, a switch hitter, runs better, and doesn't strike out nearly as much.
Not a problem though, Wilson Valdez is available cheap. Walt & Co. going cheap will not get us to the World Series.

JayBruceFan
11-16-2012, 05:02 PM
Players have to want to come here. They don't just sign with whoever offers them money first.

MoneyInTheBank
11-16-2012, 05:29 PM
Are Walt & Co. going to do anything? I would have jumped on Cabrera. He is several years
younger than Ludwick, a switch hitter, runs better, and doesn't strike out nearly as much.
Not a problem though, Wilson Valdez is available cheap. Walt & Co. going cheap will not get us to the World Series.

Patience. The offseason is still young. The only 2 notable free agents that have signed are Melky and Torii Hunter. Hunter signed for presumably more than the Reds have budgeted for LF and Melky has some serious red flags. Like it or not, I don't see the Reds acquiring a LF (unless it's a franchise type guy) until Ludwick signs with someone else.

Jocketty went out and got Latos last offseason, signed Votto and Phillips to huge contracts before the season and raised payroll to it's highest amount ever, so I'm not sure how they can be deemed "cheap"

MoneyInTheBank
11-16-2012, 06:05 PM
And let's look at the bright side of the Melky Cabrera signing. This likely sets the ceiling for Ludwick.

I know Cabrera is coming off of a steroid suspension but Ludwick has some comparable questions surrounding him (fluke or resurgence vs. 'roids or reaching his prime). Cabrera had several teams chasing after him, is 6 years younger than Ludwick and the fielding comparison is not even close. To me, this is very good news for the Reds.

webbbj
11-16-2012, 06:46 PM
Are Walt & Co. going to do anything? I would have jumped on Cabrera. He is several years
younger than Ludwick, a switch hitter, runs better, and doesn't strike out nearly as much.
Not a problem though, Wilson Valdez is available cheap. Walt & Co. going cheap will not get us to the World Series.

well the reds had just as good of a chance to win the WS last year as anyone. There is no team that is much better or really better at all than the reds. They just didnt play their best at the wrong time and had an unfortunate injury to cueto. The reds will be fine.

panzecaz03
11-17-2012, 02:58 PM
Melky Cabrera signed with the blue-jays..

40YrRedsFan
11-18-2012, 08:21 PM
According to multiple sources, Juan Pierre has agreed to a one-year, $1.6 million contract with the Marlins.
Whether you liked him or not, it's another possibility gone.

Redlegs Homer
11-18-2012, 09:42 PM
According to multiple sources, Juan Pierre has agreed to a one-year, $1.6 million contract with the Marlins.
Whether you liked him or not, it's another possibility gone.

Pretty good pick up for Miami. He still has something left. It's good to have a player who walks as often as he strikes out, and his OBP is still pretty solid.

webbbj
11-18-2012, 09:44 PM
According to multiple sources, Juan Pierre has agreed to a one-year, $1.6 million contract with the Marlins.
Whether you liked him or not, it's another possibility gone.

Yeah, for that cheap the reds should of hopped all over that. From what Ive heard the guy may have some weaknesses defensivly but he can get on base which is what we need.

Redlegs Homer
11-18-2012, 09:46 PM
Yeah, for that cheap the reds should of hopped all over that. From what Ive heard the guy may have some weaknesses defensivly but he can get on base which is what we need.

An OBP of .350 for less than $2m a year will always be a good deal.

MoneyInTheBank
11-18-2012, 09:55 PM
Yeah, for that cheap the reds should of hopped all over that. From what Ive heard the guy may have some weaknesses defensivly but he can get on base which is what we need.

They may have hopped all over it. He could have preferred Miami. No income tax, decent weather...

TannerSegbers
11-18-2012, 11:35 PM
Piere has a complete wet noodle for an arm, he cant play anything other than left and plays that poorly plus hes very splitty a platoon player at best
http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/FQlNb

HometownHero
11-20-2012, 10:14 PM
The Mariners DFAed Chone Figgins I hope we take a shot at him as our super utility player. His career fell off the face of the earth in Seattle but moving to a better hitting park and a winner club could do wonders and the price is no-doubt right.

HatchMo
11-20-2012, 10:23 PM
The Mariners DFAed Chone Figgins I hope we take a shot at him as our super utility player. His career fell off the face of the earth in Seattle but moving to a better hitting park and a winner club could do wonders and the price is no-doubt right.

I agree. Perfect bench player to replace cairo, as long as the price is right.

MoneyInTheBank
11-21-2012, 06:23 AM
The Mariners DFAed Chone Figgins I hope we take a shot at him as our super utility player. His career fell off the face of the earth in Seattle but moving to a better hitting park and a winner club could do wonders and the price is no-doubt right.

Well, he's Dusty's kind of leadoff hitter. Can't get on base ;)

HometownHero
11-21-2012, 07:27 AM
Well, he's Dusty's kind of leadoff hitter. Can't get on base ;)

Well for a poor as he hit he gets on at at a good clip. He had a .181 average but a .262 OBP. Valdez had a .206 BA but just a .236 OBP and Cairo's .187 came with a .212 OBP. Also with a much higher average Stubbs's .277 and Cozart's .288 wasn't far off.

I think he could be inline for a massive bounce back to crazy low BABIP the last two year. His luck totally vanished falling to .215 and .237 the last two years and with any spike in BA and his OBP will jump quick. But what makes it so appealing is we know he rock bottom with no luck whatsoever is better than what we had 2 of and still won the division. Plus he has better speed and if we get hit with injury he can play all the postilions and also is cheaper than anyone else we can get helping improve in other areas.

If we got lucky and he had the Ludwick type bounce back to his just under his .291 BA and .363 OBP Angels days then we could start printing up some 2013 playoff tickets with him potentially getting PT all over the field getting on for the big bats.

I hope Walt has already or plans to get in contact with his camp as we're a very good fit for him. Winning team, hitters park and tons of potential AB with several positions not held down by proven players.

rgslone
11-21-2012, 12:49 PM
I never understood what happened to Chone Figgins. He just dropped off a cliff after about age 31 - which certainly isn't old. I just don't understand it. But if the Reds think that any shadow of the old Figgins is still in there someplace, he's certainly worth a cheap gamble.

MoneyInTheBank
11-21-2012, 05:33 PM
Well for a poor as he hit he gets on at at a good clip. He had a .181 average but a .262 OBP. Valdez had a .206 BA but just a .236 OBP and Cairo's .187 came with a .212 OBP. Also with a much higher average Stubbs's .277 and Cozart's .288 wasn't far off.

I think he could be inline for a massive bounce back to crazy low BABIP the last two year. His luck totally vanished falling to .215 and .237 the last two years and with any spike in BA and his OBP will jump quick. But what makes it so appealing is we know he rock bottom with no luck whatsoever is better than what we had 2 of and still won the division. Plus he has better speed and if we get hit with injury he can play all the postilions and also is cheaper than anyone else we can get helping improve in other areas.

If we got lucky and he had the Ludwick type bounce back to his just under his .291 BA and .363 OBP Angels days then we could start printing up some 2013 playoff tickets with him potentially getting PT all over the field getting on for the big bats.

I hope Walt has already or plans to get in contact with his camp as we're a very good fit for him. Winning team, hitters park and tons of potential AB with several positions not held down by proven players.

I was certainly making those comments tongue in cheek because of the recent history of leadoff hitters with the Reds but don't get me wrong, I'd love to get Chone Figgins on a cheap deal and see if he can't bounce back. However, I'm not so sure "bad luck" was the biggest factor in his decline. Yes, his BABIP was crazy low the last 2 years and slightly down in 2010 from his career norm but let's dig a little deeper. I kind of dismiss last year's numbers because of the small sample size and sporadic playing time.

I don't think he was a bad player in 2010. He was a 32 year old player heavily reliant on speed. I think you can expect a downtick in production. His line drive rate was down a bit in 2010, accumulated almost double his career high in sacrifices (which negatively effects BABIP but not batting average) hitting behind Ichiro and his K% was up and his BB% down. What really took a toll on his batting average, IMO, was his out of the strike zone swing rate. He swung at 20.8% of the pitches he saw that were out of the strike zone. He had one outlier in 2007 of 22.3% but had never been above 16.5% in a full season 2002 & 2003 were partial seasons. Those are low hit % balls. That helps to explain his downtick in average and BABIP.

Now, 2011 is where it gets ugly. He had a 15.8% Infield Fly Ball Rate (automatic outs). By far a career high for a full season. His line drive rate was at a career low 18.3%. He did post a career best 13.1% K rate but also posted a career low 6.7% BB rate. Get this, in 2011 Figgins swung at a, by far, career high 25.2% pitches out of the strike zone and made contact with 83.1% of those pitches (which is nearly 15% above his career average). In other words, he was swinging at bad pitches and getting himself out.

Does any of this mean he can't bounce back? Absolutely not. He will no longer have the burden of living up to a large contract and constant boos. He can be entrenched back in the leadoff spot where he would have to be hit by a truck to be moved from (Dusty sticks with his guys when they are struggling) and he will be back in a winning atmosphere. I'd absolutely take a shot at him.

texasdave
11-22-2012, 08:30 AM
Numbers are nice and I am sure with almost any player a person can pick out a stat or two that supports their position. And I am certain that the Mariners have their paid saber guys who comb through the statistics of the players on their team looking for signs of life. BUT. If the team that saw him play for the past two years (meaning they should know him better than anyone) and then told him we will pay you eight million dollars if you take your bat and glove and go home; you have to wonder if there is anything left in that player's tank. If Seattle thought there was any chance at all that Figgins would bounce back, wouldn't they take him to spring and have a last look-see? Wouldn't they want to get something back for all the money invested in him, if there is anything to get back? They could always release him at the end of spring. No harm, no foul. To me he can't hit, he can't field and he is getting old. Teams (and posters on message boards) have been wrong, of course, and it wouldn't cost the Reds a lot to bring him into camp; but I would pass.

MoneyInTheBank
11-22-2012, 09:37 AM
Numbers are nice and I am sure with almost any player a person can pick out a stat or two that supports their position. And I am certain that the Mariners have their paid saber guys who comb through the statistics of the players on their team looking for signs of life. BUT. If the team that saw him play for the past two years (meaning they should know him better than anyone) and then told him we will pay you eight million dollars if you take your bat and glove and go home; you have to wonder if there is anything left in that player's tank. If Seattle thought there was any chance at all that Figgins would bounce back, wouldn't they take him to spring and have a last look-see? Wouldn't they want to get something back for all the money invested in him, if there is anything to get back? They could always release him at the end of spring. No harm, no foul. To me he can't hit, he can't field and he is getting old. Teams (and posters on message boards) have been wrong, of course, and it wouldn't cost the Reds a lot to bring him into camp; but I would pass.

History is littered with guys who were given away by their teams or were unwanted in free agency and turned out to be huge successes. Sometimes there are just circumstances where a relationship is just so irreparably damaged that it is just time to move on. Will Figgins be his old self when he goes to a new team? Doubtful. But I think it's worth $450k to find out

texasdave
11-22-2012, 12:44 PM
History is littered with guys who were given away by their teams or were unwanted in free agency and turned out to be huge successes. Sometimes there are just circumstances where a relationship is just so irreparably damaged that it is just time to move on. Will Figgins be his old self when he goes to a new team? Doubtful. But I think it's worth $450k to find out

Yes, history is littered with such players. But it is also deluged with players who did not pan out. I think the Reds budget is tight (it may well cost them more than originally thought to bring Ludwick back). If I am going to take a half million dollar flyer on someone with very limited funds available, I am not throwing it at a player whose game is based on speed. And is turning 35 and coming off of two horrible seasons in which he did not hit or field at a major league level. If he had a good glove at least then I could see taking a chance. JMO.

MoneyInTheBank
11-22-2012, 05:47 PM
Yes, history is littered with such players. But it is also deluged with players who did not pan out. I think the Reds budget is tight (it may well cost them more than originally thought to bring Ludwick back). If I am going to take a half million dollar flyer on someone with very limited funds available, I am not throwing it at a player whose game is based on speed. And is turning 35 and coming off of two horrible seasons in which he did not hit or field at a major league level. If he had a good glove at least then I could see taking a chance. JMO.

My thoughts are as a smaller market team, you take 500k fliers rather than going an extra year or overpaying for a $6-7M guy.

I'm not saying sign him, guarantee a roster spot and slot him in the leadoff spot. I'm saying bring him to spring training and if he doesn't work out, no harm done

Red Raindog
11-22-2012, 06:25 PM
My thoughts are as a smaller market team, you take 500k fliers rather than going an extra year or overpaying for a $6-7M guy.

I'm not saying sign him, guarantee a roster spot and slot him in the leadoff spot. I'm saying bring him to spring training and if he doesn't work out, no harm done

My worry if we did sign Figgins --- can we expect Jacoby to help him?

texasdave
11-22-2012, 07:00 PM
My worry if we did sign Figgins --- can we expect Jacoby to help him?

Or Dusty not to play him?

texasdave
11-22-2012, 07:15 PM
My thoughts are as a smaller market team, you take 500k fliers rather than going an extra year or overpaying for a $6-7M guy.

I'm not saying sign him, guarantee a roster spot and slot him in the leadoff spot. I'm saying bring him to spring training and if he doesn't work out, no harm done

As a general rule, I would agree that smaller market teams have to take 500K fliers on players. In this case I would disagree for two reasons. Firstly, I don't think Figgins is the player you want to take a flyer on. Over the past two seasons, I don't feel he has shown any major-league level skills offensively or in the field. Secondly, if a small-market team is at the cusp of grabbing the brass ring they should proceed accordingly and shell out a little extra. That window is not staying open indefinitely. I know that is easy for me to say since it is not my money. I just think it would be wise.

MoneyInTheBank
11-22-2012, 08:40 PM
As a general rule, I would agree that smaller market teams have to take 500K fliers on players. In this case I would disagree for two reasons. Firstly, I don't think Figgins is the player you want to take a flyer on. Over the past two seasons, I don't feel he has shown any major-league level skills offensively or in the field. Secondly, if a small-market team is at the cusp of grabbing the brass ring they should proceed accordingly and shell out a little extra. That window is not staying open indefinitely. I know that is easy for me to say since it is not my money. I just think it would be wise.

Again, I'm not saying, sign Figgins, slot him in the starting lineup and consider your offseason complete. There is absolutely no reason his 500k should be the difference between signing another player. He has been terrible the last 2 seasons no doubt, but if you bring him in and he's even 3/4 of what he once was, which was a great player, doesn't he help you in your goal for that brass ring? I'd rather take a flyer on a "has been" like Figgins than a "never was" like Emmanuel Burris or Wilson Valdez.

HometownHero
11-22-2012, 10:39 PM
As a general rule, I would agree that smaller market teams have to take 500K fliers on players. In this case I would disagree for two reasons. Firstly, I don't think Figgins is the player you want to take a flyer on. Over the past two seasons, I don't feel he has shown any major-league level skills offensively or in the field. Secondly, if a small-market team is at the cusp of grabbing the brass ring they should proceed accordingly and shell out a little extra. That window is not staying open indefinitely. I know that is easy for me to say since it is not my money. I just think it would be wise.

Figgins is the perfect player a team like us should be taking shots on. We have limited funds to spend and spent almost 2M on Cairo and Valdez last year for worst years than Figgins at his low point without any legit upside. Get him for 500K and even if he sucks we're still ahead of last year and if he sees any kind of bounce back you have a steal and open up 1M+ to spend elsewhere.

Red Raindog
11-23-2012, 06:22 AM
Or Dusty not to play him?

heh -- I must have been asleep to not ponder that!

HometownHero
11-29-2012, 09:19 PM
Russell Martin signs with Pirates for 2 years 17M total, Pittsburgh threw out the fewest percentage in the majors last year.

Redlegs Homer
11-30-2012, 03:10 PM
Russell Martin signs with Pirates for 2 years 17M total, Pittsburgh threw out the fewest percentage in the majors last year.

Good signing. Martin won't wow anyone with his batting average or OBP but for a catcher they are fine and he is wonderful defensively and can hit for power.

HometownHero
11-30-2012, 05:57 PM
Good signing. Martin won't wow anyone with his batting average or OBP but for a catcher they are fine and he is wonderful defensively and can hit for power.

His OBP is good for how low his BA is, He walked 53 times last year in 485 PA that walk total would rank 3rd on the 2012 Reds and Pirates. The last two years in NY he hit just .224 but managed a .317 OBP. The Reds this year hit .251 as a team with just a .315 OBP even with .474 from Votto while the Pirates hit .243 with a terrible .304 OBP.

Salukifan2
12-12-2012, 12:12 AM
And the cardinals respond to cincy's Choo trade by moving skip Shumaker to the Dodgers.......lol.

Player in return for schumaker has not yet been announced. There was some mention of skip for Dee gordon during the meetings. That could be the one.

40YrRedsFan
12-13-2012, 05:20 PM
Josh Hamilton signs with the .......ANGELS. 5 years, 125 million. We get the Angels to open the season..Oh BOY.

40YrRedsFan
12-13-2012, 05:21 PM
Ryan Dempster signs with the Red Sox. 2 year 26 million