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View Full Version : Maybe Henry Rodriguez at 3B is an option.



rgslone
11-14-2012, 11:18 PM
It looks like Henry Rodriguez has recovered from his fractured hand and in Winter League play is again hitting well (the way he has at every level). If the Reds can't find a good, reasonably priced LF/3B option, then what about playing HRod at 3B and hitting him 2nd in the lineup. Fraizer could man LF and the Reds could try to find a CF lead-off hitter. This is obviously not an ideal situation, and HRod is still very young (22 I believe) - but my understanding is that his defense is good enough, he's a switch hitter, and he has always hit where ever he's been.

MoneyInTheBank
11-15-2012, 07:39 AM
If they are able to make a significant upgrade elsewhere (CF, Starting Rotation, SS) then I could live with Rodriguez at 3B

Alpha Zero
11-15-2012, 08:59 AM
I wouldn't really have a problem with HRod at 3B, but I'd still like to pick up a legitimate LF. That way we at least have a backup plan if Frazier struggles to replicate last year's numbers. There are a few too many question marks for my taste if we rely on unproven commodities to occupy two traditionally important offensive positions.

rgslone
11-15-2012, 10:02 AM
I wouldn't really have a problem with HRod at 3B, but I'd still like to pick up a legitimate LF. That way we at least have a backup plan if Frazier struggles to replicate last year's numbers. There are a few too many question marks for my taste if we rely on unproven commodities to occupy two traditionally important offensive positions.

I agree about not wanting to have too many question marks. I throw the HRod at 3B option out there more for discussion, because he would obviously have to really prove himself during spring training and the Reds aren't going gamble like that. But to me HRod is exciting to speculate about because he's a switch-hitter who can really handle the bat and get on base. So, in my mind the minor league version of HRod (assuming, of course, that the production carried over) would be a great fit batting 2nd in the lineup in front of Votto.

swaisuc
11-15-2012, 10:03 AM
I wouldn't really have a problem with HRod at 3B, but I'd still like to pick up a legitimate LF. That way we at least have a backup plan if Frazier struggles to replicate last year's numbers. There are a few too many question marks for my taste if we rely on unproven commodities to occupy two traditionally important offensive positions.

Good post. I am interested in this idea mostly in a part time role or as a plan B. I would be cool going into the season with a good LF and Frazier/HRod at 3rd. If Frazier struggles, we might have something with HRod. If Frazier builds on last year, HRod is someone I'm ok using in a part time role. I think he can play, but I don't think he's some kind of stud that we need to really cater to and make sure he gets ABs. That type of player gives you more options.

rgslone
11-15-2012, 01:40 PM
Good post. I am interested in this idea mostly in a part time role or as a plan B. I would be cool going into the season with a good LF and Frazier/HRod at 3rd. If Frazier struggles, we might have something with HRod. If Frazier builds on last year, HRod is someone I'm ok using in a part time role. I think he can play, but I don't think he's some kind of stud that we need to really cater to and make sure he gets ABs. That type of player gives you more options.

I don't disagree with you. I think HRod would be a role player. But I think his potential value is that his skill set really fits a role the Reds need. His offensive skills provide something different than Frazier. Fraizer is more of a thumper (although late in the season it seemed he was using a different approach with 2 strikes - e.g., Votto), while HRod projects to possibly be that pesky hitter early in a lineup who fouls off a ton of pitches and just seems to find a way to get on base. If he could do that for the Reds in front of Votto, then I think that's the kind of role player you need to get at bats.

vin19
11-15-2012, 03:14 PM
I believe Hrod is a little small for an everyday 3B but if his bat is above average I think we could live with it

Hondo
11-18-2012, 06:15 PM
If the Reds get Bourn to Lead Off or a Legit Lead-Off Hitter...

Henry at 3B and Frazier in Left makes this one potent offense...

H-Rod in the 2 hole and you have a .320/.360/.450 guy in the 2 hole who's perfect for 2 hole...

Bourn
Rodriguez
Votto
Phillips
Bruce
Frazier
Cozart
Hanigan/Mesoraco

MoneyInTheBank
11-18-2012, 06:57 PM
If the Reds get Bourn to Lead Off or a Legit Lead-Off Hitter...

Henry at 3B and Frazier in Left makes this one potent offense...

H-Rod in the 2 hole and you have a .320/.360/.450 guy in the 2 hole who's perfect for 2 hole...

Bourn
Rodriguez
Votto
Phillips
Bruce
Frazier
Cozart
Hanigan/Mesoraco

Whoa, pump the brakes a bit on Rodriguez. Don't get me wrong, the guy can hit but he's a 22 years old with only 51 games above the AA level.

Hondo
11-18-2012, 07:01 PM
Whoa, pump the brakes a bit on Rodriguez. Don't get me wrong, the guy can hit but he's a 22 years old with only 51 games above the AA level.

I am just going off his track record in the minors and what it will most likely translate to in the majors...

The Guy is going to hit .300+ with 40 Doubles if he plays 150 games in the Majors.

MoneyInTheBank
11-18-2012, 07:21 PM
I am just going off his track record in the minors and what it will most likely translate to in the majors...

The Guy is going to hit .300+ with 40 Doubles if he plays 150 games in the Majors.

In his 51 AAA games last year he hit .244/.264/.333. I'm not saying he'll never be a major leaguer but he's got a lot of work to do before hitting .300 in the majors.

rgslone
11-19-2012, 12:10 AM
In his 51 AAA games last year he hit .244/.264/.333. I'm not saying he'll never be a major leaguer but he's got a lot of work to do before hitting .300 in the majors.

Was that before HRod broke his hand, or does that include the time after he returned when he obviously wasn't fully recovered (whether physically or mentally). Hitters don't generally recover from a fractued hand that quickly to put up numbers comparable to their preinjury numbers in the same season (remember the situation with Alonzo). I'll give you that it's too early to be expecting HRod to be an answer for next season, but I think you have to be fair about his injury when you bring up last season's numbers.

MoneyInTheBank
11-19-2012, 07:19 AM
Was that before HRod broke his hand, or does that include the time after he returned when he obviously wasn't fully recovered (whether physically or mentally). Hitters don't generally recover from a fractued hand that quickly to put up numbers comparable to their preinjury numbers in the same season (remember the situation with Alonzo). I'll give you that it's too early to be expecting HRod to be an answer for next season, but I think you have to be fair about his injury when you bring up last season's numbers.

It was after his thumb injury. Yonder still hit for average after his wrist injury but it sapped his power. But again, I'm not saying he'll never hit .300 or that he's no good so I don't think I'm being unfair about an injury. The fact is that he's got 51 games at AAA under his belt and even if he hit .500, like you said, it's a little early to be proclaiming him a .300 hitter at the MLB level.

Hondo
11-19-2012, 07:32 PM
Was that before HRod broke his hand, or does that include the time after he returned when he obviously wasn't fully recovered (whether physically or mentally). Hitters don't generally recover from a fractued hand that quickly to put up numbers comparable to their preinjury numbers in the same season (remember the situation with Alonzo). I'll give you that it's too early to be expecting HRod to be an answer for next season, but I think you have to be fair about his injury when you bring up last season's numbers.

Ditto.

rgslone
11-19-2012, 07:43 PM
HRod is most likely the best proven contact hitter in the Reds' minor league system (although admittedly they don't have a lot of those). And contact hitters tend to be good OBP hitters, and the Reds' offensive is starving for that kind of hitter (actually more than one). I have little concern regarding his .244 avg in 51 post-injury games in AAA last season because of the fracutred hand/thumb injury. My only concern would be if HRod had some lingering effect from the injury - which I'm assuming won't be the case. Otherwise, he's a little young; but I think all the Reds development people are confident he can hit - and I mean probably hit right now in the big leagues for a better average than anybody on the team not named Votto or maybe Phillips and Hannigan. The biggest issue with HRod is that he doesn't have a defensive position for which he is ideally suited. His bat would traditionally fit better at 2B, but apparently 3B is a better defensive position for him (although he's apparently only adequate there). So, the defensive side of things may well hold him back from becoming an everyday starter, especially as early as next season - but I would bet that it won't be because of his offensive.

MoneyInTheBank
11-19-2012, 07:55 PM
HRod is most likely the best proven contact hitter in the Reds' minor league system (although admittedly they don't have a lot of those). And contact hitters tend to be good OBP hitters, and the Reds' offensive is starving for that kind of hitter (actually more than one). I have little concern regarding his .244 avg in 51 post-injury games in AAA last season because of the fracutred hand/thumb injury. My only concern would be if HRod had some lingering effect from the injury - which I'm assuming won't be the case. Otherwise, he's a little young; but I think all the Reds development people are confident he can hit - and I mean probably hit right now in the big leagues for a better average than anybody on the team not named Votto or maybe Phillips and Hannigan. The biggest issue with HRod is that he doesn't have a defensive position for which he is ideally suited. His bat would traditionally fit better at 2B, but apparently 3B is a better defensive position for him (although he's apparently only adequate there). So, the defensive side of things may well hold him back from becoming an everyday starter, especially as early as next season - but I would bet that it won't be because of his offensive.

I'm not CONCERNED about his .244 average. I'm more concerned about the lack of experience above AA. I was responding to a post saying give him 150 games and he would hit .300+. I'm just saying temper the expectations a bit, that's all. I'm not saying he's crap, I'm not saying he'll never be a great on base guy. I'm saying not yet.

Hondo
11-19-2012, 08:52 PM
I'm not CONCERNED about his .244 average. I'm more concerned about the lack of experience above AA. I was responding to a post saying give him 150 games and he would hit .300+. I'm just saying temper the expectations a bit, that's all. I'm not saying he's crap, I'm not saying he'll never be a great on base guy. I'm saying not yet.

That was me who said give him 150 Games and he'll hit .300+... If the Reds can get a Lead Off Hitter like Bourn to go into Center, I'd be fine with Frazier in LF and H-Rod at 3B, and Phillips hitting 4th...

Now would I rather have J-Upton in LF and hitting 4th, with Frazier at 3B, Absolutely. But I think the Reds are only going to spend money on one player and IMO it has to be Bourn... So if the Reds sign a Free Agent like Bourn, they won't be adding anyone else...

It will totally be a disapointment if the Reds pay Ludwick even 7 Million per year when he really doesn't do what this team needs...

Might as well get the player that absolutely helps this team now...

I'd also like the Reds to acquire David Price too but thats for next week...

rgslone
11-19-2012, 08:56 PM
I'm not CONCERNED about his .244 average. I'm more concerned about the lack of experience above AA. I was responding to a post saying give him 150 games and he would hit .300+. I'm just saying temper the expectations a bit, that's all. I'm not saying he's crap, I'm not saying he'll never be a great on base guy. I'm saying not yet.

I understand. I'm not attacking or suggesting you don't think he can hit. I just like speculating about and hearing other opinions about what these guys might be able to do. For example, I really wish the reports about HRod's defense (including his arm) were better, or that he had 20-25 HR power to go with that contact ability. He dosesn't. But, if all that mattered was the ability to hit for average, I suspect that it's more likely than not that HRod could hit .290 or better over 150 games with the Reds next season. Of course, I can't say that unequivocally - that would be absurdly arrogant - but that's just my sense of it. Some guys can just wake up in the morning and hit wherever you put them (HRod) and some couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat (Stubbs).

rgslone
11-19-2012, 09:04 PM
That was me who said give him 150 Games and he'll hit .300+... If the Reds can get a Lead Off Hitter like Bourn to go into Center, I'd be fine with Frazier in LF and H-Rod at 3B, and Phillips hitting 4th...

Now would I rather have J-Upton in LF and hitting 4th, with Frazier at 3B, Absolutely. But I think the Reds are only going to spend money on one player and IMO it has to be Bourn... So if the Reds sign a Free Agent like Bourn, they won't be adding anyone else...

It will totally be a disapointment if the Reds pay Ludwick even 7 Million per year when he really doesn't do what this team needs...

Might as well get the player that absolutely helps this team now...

I'd also like the Reds to acquire David Price too but thats for next week...

But Hondo, you're not saying you don't want Ludwig are you? I took it that you are just saying some good OBP at the top of the line-up is more important, right?

Also, another question for you - and Money, and anybody else: For $7M would you rather have Ludwig or Josh Willingham in LF next season?

Eric the Red
11-19-2012, 09:07 PM
I think HRod will have an impact on the 2013 Reds. He can hit and I truly believe the Reds brass thinks he'll hit in the majors. Remember he would've most likely been called up in May instead of Mike Costanzo if he wasn't injured. If Ludwick isn't resigned I could see him getting 100+ starts at 3b.

Eric the Red
11-19-2012, 09:11 PM
But Hondo, you're not saying you don't want Ludwig are you? I took it that you are just saying some good OBP at the top of the line-up is more important, right?

Also, another question for you - and Money, and anybody else: For $7M would you rather have Ludwig or Josh Willingham in LF next season?

If its one or the other, it's Willingham easy. But when you factor in what would go to Minny to acquire Willingham (likely Cingrani and Corcino?) and the $14M hes owed over the next two yrs, then I'd sign Ludwick.

MoneyInTheBank
11-19-2012, 09:19 PM
That was me who said give him 150 Games and he'll hit .300+... If the Reds can get a Lead Off Hitter like Bourn to go into Center, I'd be fine with Frazier in LF and H-Rod at 3B, and Phillips hitting 4th...

Now would I rather have J-Upton in LF and hitting 4th, with Frazier at 3B, Absolutely. But I think the Reds are only going to spend money on one player and IMO it has to be Bourn... So if the Reds sign a Free Agent like Bourn, they won't be adding anyone else...

It will totally be a disapointment if the Reds pay Ludwick even 7 Million per year when he really doesn't do what this team needs...

Might as well get the player that absolutely helps this team now...

I'd also like the Reds to acquire David Price too but thats for next week...

I agree. I said it earlier in this thread that I'm fine with HRod starting the season at 3rd if that means they acquired a stud to play CF or SS.

MoneyInTheBank
11-19-2012, 09:20 PM
If its one or the other, it's Willingham easy. But when you factor in what would go to Minny to acquire Willingham (likely Cingrani and Corcino?) and the $14M hes owed over the next two yrs, then I'd sign Ludwick.

Couldn't agree more

rgslone
11-19-2012, 09:25 PM
If its one or the other, it's Willingham easy. But when you factor in what would go to Minny to acquire Willingham (likely Cingrani and Corcino?) and the $14M hes owed over the next two yrs, then I'd sign Ludwick.

Do you think it's likely that Ludwig could get more than $7M/yr. for 2yrs?

Eric the Red
11-19-2012, 09:51 PM
Do you think it's likely that Ludwig could get more than $7M/yr. for 2yrs?

I think so. Torri Hunter hit .313/.365/.451 2012 at the age of 37 and got $13M/yr for 2 yrs compared to Ludwick's .275/.346/.531 at the age of 34. Hunter will be 38 and Ludwick 35 both in July. Looking at last years LF crop of WIllingham, Cuddyer and Kubel and Hunter's early comp this offseason its favorable for Ludwick. Now, he doesn't have the track record of those others but his 2012 season will get him paid. Too many teams: Seattle, Atlanta, Phila, Boston, Texas, possibly SF need corner outfielders. Reds may be wise to invest elsewhere which will give HRod more of an opportunity.

MoneyInTheBank
11-19-2012, 10:00 PM
Do you think it's likely that Ludwig could get more than $7M/yr. for 2yrs?

I agree with Eric the Red. However, I don't see him getting more than 2 years or more than $7M per

rgslone
11-19-2012, 11:28 PM
I think so. Torri Hunter hit .313/.365/.451 2012 at the age of 37 and got $13M/yr for 2 yrs compared to Ludwick's .275/.346/.531 at the age of 34. Hunter will be 38 and Ludwick 35 both in July. Looking at last years LF crop of WIllingham, Cuddyer and Kubel and Hunter's early comp this offseason its favorable for Ludwick. Now, he doesn't have the track record of those others but his 2012 season will get him paid. Too many teams: Seattle, Atlanta, Phila, Boston, Texas, possibly SF need corner outfielders. Reds may be wise to invest elsewhere which will give HRod more of an opportunity.

Good analysis of the situation. But I think the Reds are going to explore every other reasonable option before relying on a just turned 23 yr. old HRod to begin the season, don't you? Now, I suspect there is a good chance he's going to hit next season in AAA to a degree that the Reds will start thinking about how to incorporate him before the season ends. But, as I indicated earlier, don't you think that regardless of how fast his offense comes it's tougher finding the right spot to play him defensively. Fraizier is said to be the better defensive 3B; and, of course, Frazier's power plays better.

Hondo
11-20-2012, 06:52 PM
But Hondo, you're not saying you don't want Ludwig are you? I took it that you are just saying some good OBP at the top of the line-up is more important, right?

Also, another question for you - and Money, and anybody else: For $7M would you rather have Ludwig or Josh Willingham in LF next season?

I would rather have Ludwick then Willingham because Willingham costs prospects, but IMO, Signing Ludwick for even 7Million doesn't make sense...

The Reds are better off leaving Chapman as Closer, Saving the $7 Million on Ludwick (Which I think Ludwick will want $9M) and the money they are thinking about spending on Soria, Madson, Broxton, etc... and just sign Bourn...

Sure, it costs you a draft pick, but it fills the most glaring need when Frazier can play 3B or LF, and H-Rod can play 3B... I mean, this isn't even a debate when you put all the pieces together...

drowg14
11-20-2012, 07:07 PM
I would rather have Ludwick then Willingham because Willingham costs prospects, but IMO, Signing Ludwick for even 7Million doesn't make sense...

The Reds are better off leaving Chapman as Closer, Saving the $7 Million on Ludwick (Which I think Ludwick will want $9M) and the money they are thinking about spending on Soria, Madson, Broxton, etc... and just sign Bourn...

Sure, it costs you a draft pick, but it fills the most glaring need when Frazier can play 3B or LF, and H-Rod can play 3B... I mean, this isn't even a debate when you put all the pieces together...

The piece you are forgetting is Bourn's age, and the amount of years his contract will probably be for. Also, even if Chapman is kept in the pen, you still need at least one of those bullpen arms you mentioned. Not to mention HRod has not shown that he can play at the big league level yet. That's not taking into account that the FO believes Hamilton will probably fill that CF/Leadoff role within the next year or two, making Bourn less a necessity as his contract would lag on. So I agree on their not being a debate once you put the pieces together.

Oh, and I almost forgot about that draft pick...

As far as Ludwick vs Willingham... can I pass on both? I'm fine with just finding some platoon mate for Stubbs in CF till Hamilton is hopefully ready (even if it's not till 2014), keeping Frazier at third, and finding a cheaper option in left. Maybe even trying Heisey there for an extended look. I always felt that the way he's been used has hurt his overall effectiveness.

Hondo
11-20-2012, 07:34 PM
The piece you are forgetting is Bourn's age, and the amount of years his contract will probably be for. Also, even if Chapman is kept in the pen, you still need at least one of those bullpen arms you mentioned. Not to mention HRod has not shown that he can play at the big league level yet. That's not taking into account that the FO believes Hamilton will probably fill that CF/Leadoff role within the next year or two, making Bourn less a necessity as his contract would lag on. So I agree on their not being a debate once you put the pieces together.

Oh, and I almost forgot about that draft pick...

As far as Ludwick vs Willingham... can I pass on both? I'm fine with just finding some platoon mate for Stubbs in CF till Hamilton is hopefully ready (even if it's not till 2014), keeping Frazier at third, and finding a cheaper option in left. Maybe even trying Heisey there for an extended look. I always felt that the way he's been used has hurt his overall effectiveness.

I am not worried about Bourn's age for the next 3 years... I think he is highly worth the cost in 2016-2017 if he gets the Reds the production they need... We are talking about Dollars here...

Madson or Soria $8 Million give or take

+

Ludwick $7-$9 Million for 3 years...

= $15 Million

I would rather put that money over the next 3 years into one lead-pff hitter who gets the Reds where they need to go, who will have a ripple affect on the entire lineup where you won't have a guy like Bruce hit 30+HR and land on 99 RBI...

This is what makes the most sense... For this team, for the next 3 years. The Reds need to be serious about filling their most glaring need and pay to do so, even if that means over-paying Bourn on 2016 & 2017, then so be it... IMHO.

rgslone
11-20-2012, 08:22 PM
I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but the more I look at it the more I'm convinced that the Reds CF/lead-off answer is clearly in the Twins organization. They have two great options - Span and Revere - that I would be very happy with heading into next season. Plus it's not like they have to be conviced to make a trade. After the dismissal season they just had the Twins are intent on make multiple trades this off-season, because, like the Reds, they often have a difficult time getting what they need via free-agency due to payroll constraints. Also, the Twins have CFs stacked on top of each other. They absolutely want to trade (and will in fact) trade at least one them. In fact, the Twins are already looking ahead to 2014 and beyond and therefore could even trade both Span and Revere because they have I believe 3 other CF options very close to being ready. One such option in particular is considered a stud CF prospect (Aaron Hicks).

Eric the Red
11-20-2012, 09:07 PM
Good analysis of the situation. But I think the Reds are going to explore every other reasonable option before relying on a just turned 23 yr. old HRod to begin the season, don't you?

I do agree that the front office will do their due diligence on any potential 3B (Rolen, Chavez, Polanco) before believing HRod could be relied upon.

I also agree with you that the Twins contain the solution to the CF/leadoff conundrum. Similar to HRod, in no way do they want to rush Hamilton so if Revere or Span could be acquired at a reasonable price I think the Reds will do it.

MoneyInTheBank
11-20-2012, 09:27 PM
I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but the more I look at it the more I'm convinced that the Reds CF/lead-off answer is clearly in the Twins organization. They have two great options - Span and Revere - that I would be very happy with heading into next season. Plus it's not like they have to be conviced to make a trade. After the dismissal season they just had the Twins are intent on make multiple trades this off-season, because, like the Reds, they often have a difficult time getting what they need via free-agency due to payroll constraints. Also, the Twins have CFs stacked on top of each other. They absolutely want to trade (and will in fact) trade at least one them. In fact, the Twins are already looking ahead to 2014 and beyond and therefore could even trade both Span and Revere because they have I believe 3 other CF options very close to being ready. One such option in particular is considered a stud CF prospect (Aaron Hicks).

They certainly do have pieces we (and many other teams) want. So, the fact that they haven't made a deal yet leads me to believe they are asking for the moon. Rumor has it Minnesota wants to restock it's farm system with young pitching. So, it's likely they are asking for at least 2 of Corcino, Cingrani, Stephenson, Lotzkar, Travieso plus more. Is Span worth that?

drowg14
11-20-2012, 10:52 PM
I am not worried about Bourn's age for the next 3 years... I think he is highly worth the cost in 2016-2017 if he gets the Reds the production they need... We are talking about Dollars here...

Madson or Soria $8 Million give or take

+

Ludwick $7-$9 Million for 3 years...

= $15 Million

I would rather put that money over the next 3 years into one lead-pff hitter who gets the Reds where they need to go, who will have a ripple affect on the entire lineup where you won't have a guy like Bruce hit 30+HR and land on 99 RBI...

This is what makes the most sense... For this team, for the next 3 years. The Reds need to be serious about filling their most glaring need and pay to do so, even if that means over-paying Bourn on 2016 & 2017, then so be it... IMHO.

I guess it depends on the money from the new tv deal I keep hearing about. BP's contract will start too look less appealing 2016/2017. Plus those are the years that Votto's contract jumps to the 20's, per cots (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/?page_id=109). So having to overpay for Bourn for those two years, on top of overpaying for BP those two years, with Votto's increase, plus having to resign all of our young talent between now and then, I don't really see it as a viable option unless our payroll skyrockets in between now and 2016.

rgslone
11-21-2012, 10:47 AM
They certainly do have pieces we (and many other teams) want. So, the fact that they haven't made a deal yet leads me to believe they are asking for the moon. Rumor has it Minnesota wants to restock it's farm system with young pitching. So, it's likely they are asking for at least 2 of Corcino, Cingrani, Stephenson, Lotzkar, Travieso plus more. Is Span worth that?

For the Reds purposes, I would have to say that Span is not worth 2 of our top pitching prospects. If the Reds didn't have Hamilton in the wings, then it would be a tougher call. Span is a good all around CF, and he's only 28. The Twins view him and Willingham as their top trade bait, so they certainly do want to leverage those players for maximum return. And a team like Atlanta, who would be looking at Span as a longer-term option in CF, would probably pay a higher trade price for Span than the Reds. On the other hand, I'm confident that the Twins would also trade Ben Revere (a Juan Pierre type with better defense) and maybe even keep Span until the trading deadline in 2013. Regardless, I think the Twins expect to move both Span and Revere by 2014, if not before, due to Aaron Hicks (similar situation for them as Hamilton is for us).

You are also right that the Twins want pitching (actually they are starving for it), and they're pretty desperate for a SS also. Homer Bailey would probably be the Ace of their staff, and Mike Leake a #3 (heck maybe a #2). That's why I think something like Homer Bailey and little more than a throw-in, or Cozart & Cingrani, or Coazrt & Leake & a lower tier pitching prosect could net Willingham (who's not in their long-term plans) and Revere (expendable). I'm not saying the Reds should do that - that's another discussion, but I think it could be done if the Reds think it improves them.

Girevik
11-21-2012, 10:59 AM
If the Reds didn't have Hamilton in the wings, then it would be a tougher call.

I'm always leery of basing a move on what is in the minors, especially at the AA level and lower. Right now Hamilton is a ton of raw talent with no real position and a still developing bat. I'm very much much a "bird in the hand" kind of guy when it comes to talent. Give me the proven commodity any day.

rgslone
11-21-2012, 01:10 PM
I'm always leery of basing a move on what is in the minors, especially at the AA level and lower. Right now Hamilton is a ton of raw talent with no real position and a still developing bat. I'm very much much a "bird in the hand" kind of guy when it comes to talent. Give me the proven commodity any day.

That's just being prudent, I can't disagree. Upon thinking more about Span, however, you know he could still be a good trade chip for the Reds if and when Hamilton becomes ready. So, I guess he would have more value to the Reds than I was suggesting (I was thinking more in terms of him being of 1 yr. stop-gap).

Hondo
11-21-2012, 06:43 PM
I guess it depends on the money from the new tv deal I keep hearing about. BP's contract will start too look less appealing 2016/2017. Plus those are the years that Votto's contract jumps to the 20's, per cots (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/?page_id=109). So having to overpay for Bourn for those two years, on top of overpaying for BP those two years, with Votto's increase, plus having to resign all of our young talent between now and then, I don't really see it as a viable option unless our payroll skyrockets in between now and 2016.

I guess in my estimation that the Reds could be dominant over the next 3 years while the core is still young... So I am willing to have a Gold Glove CF the next 5 years worse case scenerio and batting 8th in 2016 & 2017 if need be to win the next 3 years...

Eric the Red
11-21-2012, 08:55 PM
The possible return of Scott Rolen certainly has implications on HRod's 2013 season. Per Jayson Stark, Rolen has indicated he may play next year.


Jayson Stark‏@jaysonst

Tidbit I heard today: Scott Rolen has told Reds he may play in 2013, but not ready to make a decision. Reds would like him back in some role

rgslone
11-22-2012, 12:41 AM
The possible return of Scott Rolen certainly has implications on HRod's 2013 season. Per Jayson Stark, Rolen has indicated he may play next year.

Rolen in a Miguel Cairo role (and less than $3M) is ok by me - in fact, I like it. I don't think that HRod should be placed in a utility role at this point, so under my scenario Rolen wouldn't be a hinderance to HRod's chance to win the 3B job. But I don't want Rolen brought back to be the starting 3B.