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Kc61
11-15-2012, 04:58 PM
Just read that the Cubs signed Navarro, who did such a nice job at backup catcher for the Reds late in the season.

Reported at $1.75 million, presumably a major league contract.

Bumstead
11-15-2012, 05:00 PM
So Mesoraco won't spend next year in AAA? Hard to believe... :rolleyes:

Bum

Tom Servo
11-15-2012, 05:06 PM
You served us well with many big hits in 2012, Mr. Navarro. All the best.


p.s. just please don't kill us when we play the Cubs.

traderumor
11-15-2012, 05:19 PM
You served us well with many big hits in 2012, Mr. Navarro. All the best.


p.s. just please don't kill us when we play the Cubs.He'll be Cubbiefied. No worries.

Vottomatic
11-15-2012, 05:47 PM
I'd rather Mez spend a year at Louisvile and Navarro be our backup.

But good luck Dioner.

PuffyPig
11-15-2012, 06:49 PM
Giving Navarro that much on a guaranteed major league contract isn't particularly wise. He has minor league insurance at AAA written all over him.

He struck out more, walked way less and had the highest BABIP and HR/FB rate of his career to get to that .755 OPS.

He parlayed a lucky 70 or so AB's into a pretty nice contract.

dougdirt
11-15-2012, 06:53 PM
Giving Navarro that much on a guaranteed major league contract isn't particularly wise. He has minor league insurance at AAA written all over him.

He struck out more, walked way less and had the highest BABIP and HR/FB rate of his career to get to that .755 OPS.

He parlayed a lucky 70 or so AB's into a pretty nice contract.

To be fair, he hit darn well in AAA all year before those MLB at bats too.

dsmith421
11-15-2012, 06:57 PM
Hmm...local Cincy media types reporting that Jocketty had a deal with Navarro, his agent backed out at the last minute when this Cubs offer came along. What does this say about Mesoraco's position vis-a-vis the club right now?

PuffyPig
11-15-2012, 07:17 PM
Hmm...local Cincy media types reporting that Jocketty had a deal with Navarro, his agent backed out at the last minute when this Cubs offer came along. What does this say about Mesoraco's position vis-a-vis the club right now?

The Cincy deal may well have been a minor league deal.

PuffyPig
11-15-2012, 07:20 PM
To be fair, he hit darn well in AAA all year before those MLB at bats too.

He also walked a ton more and struck out a ton less. He hit well because he was putting the ball into play and walking lots. He deserved to hit better at AAA.

traderumor
11-15-2012, 07:52 PM
Giving Navarro that much on a guaranteed major league contract isn't particularly wise. He has minor league insurance at AAA written all over him.

He struck out more, walked way less and had the highest BABIP and HR/FB rate of his career to get to that .755 OPS.

He parlayed a lucky 70 or so AB's into a pretty nice contract.That's pretty cheap for a team that was running Steve Clevenger and that other guy whose name I can't remember out there every day. I'd say Navarro will do fine in a role with the Cubs if they don't make him an everyday.

traderumor
11-15-2012, 07:54 PM
Hmm...local Cincy media types reporting that Jocketty had a deal with Navarro, his agent backed out at the last minute when this Cubs offer came along. What does this say about Mesoraco's position vis-a-vis the club right now?
That the Reds liked Navarro as a 3rd catcher in AAA in case something happens at the major league level? A good organization trying to keep depth at an injury prone position?

dsmith421
11-15-2012, 09:29 PM
That the Reds liked Navarro as a 3rd catcher in AAA in case something happens at the major league level? A good organization trying to keep depth at an injury prone position?

It surprised me that Jocketty would say anything at all. It seems odd that Navarro would be happy to return to Cincinnati on a minor league deal if there was any chance of getting a huge raise and guaranteed major league time. I suppose I reckoned without the Cubs.

Vottomatic
11-15-2012, 09:55 PM
What does this say about Mesoraco's position vis-a-vis the club right now?

Bingo.

PuffyPig
11-15-2012, 10:00 PM
That's pretty cheap for a team that was running Steve Clevenger and that other guy whose name I can't remember out there every day. I'd say Navarro will do fine in a role with the Cubs if they don't make him an everyday.

I'm not sure that grossly overpaying for a AAA catcher because your regulars suck is the way to build a competent team.

Navarro didn't suddenly get better at his age after finding it hard to find even a minor league job last year.


BTW, the other Cubs catcher Castillo had an OPS of .754.

cumberlandreds
11-16-2012, 08:49 AM
Not a surprise. I thought Navarro would get major league contract with someone. He's too good a hitter and a viable backup catcher not to be signed by someone. I was surprised the Reds had gotten him on a minor league contract last season. It's time now for Mez to step up and be the catcher we think he can be. I don't think anymore time in the minors would help him that much. More playing time at the big league level will do that. I hope they flip him and Hanigan next year. Mez 3 days or more and Hanigan no more than two days a week. Time to find out if he can handle the bigs or not.

traderumor
11-16-2012, 11:42 AM
I'm not sure that grossly overpaying for a AAA catcher because your regulars suck is the way to build a competent team.

Navarro didn't suddenly get better at his age after finding it hard to find even a minor league job last year.


BTW, the other Cubs catcher Castillo had an OPS of .754.Grossly overpaying? Like paying a cook $9 instead of $8.75. Mountain, meet molehill.

PuffyPig
11-16-2012, 08:10 PM
Grossly overpaying? Like paying a cook $9 instead of $8.75. Mountain, meet molehill.

Last year he made 24 games of the major league minimum. This year he's making $1.75M. I think you are paying that fry cook about $100 per hour.

BTW, Ryan Hannigan is in the last year of a 3-year contract where he's averaged $1.33M per season.

traderumor
11-16-2012, 10:24 PM
Last year he made 24 games of the major league minimum. This year he's making $1.75M. I think you are paying that fry cook about $100 per hour.

BTW, Ryan Hannigan is in the last year of a 3-year contract where he's averaged $1.33M per season.Not really, in comparative dollars. He has to barely play above replacement level to hit the breakeven on such a small contract. Perhaps its a big deal to you, but I'm not sure why.

PuffyPig
11-16-2012, 10:28 PM
Not really, in comparative dollars. He has to barely play above replacement level to hit the breakeven on such a small contract. Perhaps its a big deal to you, but I'm not sure why.

AAAA catchers get tminor league contracts. The Cubs have given him established major league money for catchers expected to play 60-80 games.

Navaro is no better today than he was at the start of last year.

Yet he got a major league contract and guaranteed $1.75M.

traderumor
11-17-2012, 11:33 AM
AAAA catchers get tminor league contracts. The Cubs have given him established major league money for catchers expected to play 60-80 games.

Navaro is no better today than he was at the start of last year.

Yet he got a major league contract and guaranteed $1.75M.

Navarro availed himself well in the Reds stretch run, which followed a strong showing in Louisville. Looks like he rebuilt some value. But don't forget this is the Cubs, they didn't lose 100 games by making great decisions. They are in a deep place and any upgrade to the stink they have is gonna cost some cash. They probably outbid themselves, but they had to do something to entice him to play for a loser since it appears he was ready to sign that type of deal with the Reds and be one injury to a catcher away from playing for a contending team. Cudos to his agent for recognizing the Cubs desperation and affinity for Navarro.

The Cubs are a bad team, they have to overpay even for potential slightly above replacement level players or they can continue to run out the same garbage for league minimum. They are trying to upgrade from Clevenger's OPS+ of 48 and Castillo, do you really think that he shouldn't be replaced?

For some reason, someone with the Cubs must see something that made him a target for their plans. In the current economy of MLB, I simply think you are extremely overstating the value of that contract.

Kc61
11-17-2012, 03:22 PM
Navarro struck me as a solid hitter, good enough to be on most teams' bench. I didn't get the impression that he was a particularly good defender or thrower.

I think the important take away here is that the Reds are not discouraged with Mes and expect him to be on the roster. They will likely pick up a veteran for AAA and possible major league fill in duty.

The Reds should and will give Mes more playing time next year. Hanigan is a terrific defender and gets on base well, but has very little power and has a limited offensive game.

IMO the Reds should go for it with Mes next year. Of course it is November so I reserve the right to change my view if Mes slumps early.