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View Full Version : Posey, Cabrera MVPs



texasdave
11-15-2012, 08:02 PM
Buster Posey wins the NL MVP.

Miguel Cabrera wins the AL MVP.


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Mutaman
11-15-2012, 08:33 PM
Sounds reasonable to me.

kg112686
11-15-2012, 08:46 PM
-Bruce came in 10th with 46 points (2 fourth place votes, 1 fifth, 3 sixth, 2 seventh and 1 eighth)

-Chapman in 12th with 20 points (1 sixth place vote, 1 seventh, 1 eighth, 3 ninth and 2 tenth)

-Phillips in 13th with 18 points (2 sixth place votes, 1 seventh, 1 eighth and 1 tenth)

-Votto tied for 14th with 16 points (1 sixth place vote, 1 seventh, 1 ninth and 5 tenth)

-Cueto tied for 30th with 2 points (1 ninth place vote)

The DARK
11-15-2012, 09:07 PM
I'm disappointed that Trout didn't win. I'd give a longer argument, but all the reasons have been well-documented elsewhere. The right guy won in the NL, though.

Ironman92
11-15-2012, 10:45 PM
Not sure how Bruce got 2 fourth place votes or how Phillips got 2 sixth place ones.

Mutaman
11-15-2012, 10:57 PM
Not sure how Bruce got 2 fourth place votes or how Phillips got 2 sixth place ones.

I don't care much for arguing awards, all politics. And maybe I'm reading you wrong, but you seriously don't think BP's season was worth 2 6th place votes? Wow.

Would agree re Bruce.

HometownHero
11-15-2012, 11:21 PM
Trout had a legit case but the TC is just too impressive to deny.

New York Red
11-16-2012, 12:35 AM
Traditional stats win over Sabermetrics. Us older guys approve.

TSJ55
11-16-2012, 10:31 AM
I'm no old timer (subjectively speaking) but it was the right call. Sabermetrics have their place, but like all numbers, they can be manipulated to serve either side. B. Olney reported the players he interviewed agreed it was Miggy. That's enough for me.

Todd Gack
11-16-2012, 10:36 AM
I vehemently disagree with Miggy. But if you're going to argue, don't make the argument that Miggy is ahead of Trout because 'his team made the playoffs.'

TSJ55
11-16-2012, 10:41 AM
I vehemently disagree with Miggy. But if you're going to argue, don't make the argument that Miggy is ahead of Trout because 'his team made the playoffs.'

Do you have thoughts not documented elsewhere? Why do you dislike the "playoffs" argument?

webbbj
11-16-2012, 11:17 AM
Because trouts team won more games than the cabrera's.

The triple crown is great and all but its over rated. Its more about timing than anything. Many players have put up comparable or better numbers in the triple crown categories and haven't won a triple crown.

Trout is simply the best overall player and it wasnt particularly close. Trout should have won.

PedroBourbon
11-16-2012, 11:33 AM
Trout had a legit case but the TC is just too impressive to deny.

This is EXACTLY why it went to Miggy. Had it gone to Trout the arguements would've been "But how do you gloss over a triple crown winner?" or "I guess the triple crown doesn't mean anything."

Both well deserved I might add.

HometownHero
11-16-2012, 11:39 AM
Because trouts team won more games than the cabrera's.

The triple crown is great and all but its over rated. Its more about timing than anything. Many players have put up comparable or better numbers in the triple crown categories and haven't won a triple crown.

Trout is simply the best overall player and it wasnt particularly close. Trout should have won.

He played 22 less games and it cost him the award, Cabrera had better overall numbers and he won. Trout had more runs by 20 and far more SB but had 62 fewer bases.

MLB Top 5
BA, Cabrera #2, Trout #4
Runs, Trout #1, Cabrera #2
Hits, Cabrera #2,
HR, Cabrera #1
RBI, Cabrera #1 by 11
TB, Cabrera #1 by 21
XBH, Cabrera #1
SLG, Cabrera #1 by .011, Trout #4
OPS, Cabrera #1 by .012, Trout #3
SB, Trout #1,
IBB, Cabrera #3 one off the leaders

webbbj
11-16-2012, 12:06 PM
you forgot about defense and base running.

HometownHero
11-16-2012, 12:26 PM
you forgot about defense and base running.

It still doesn't over come the fact Cabrera was the best offensive player in baseball by a wide gap for 161 games and not 139. If he had those extra games to close the offensive gaps he would have had a legit shot but it was the difference in the race that wasn't even close as he was closer to 3rd than he was 1st.

texasdave
11-16-2012, 01:13 PM
Trout WAR - 10.0
Cabera WAR - 7.1

I'd say he more than made up that gap. And he is so much younger. That seemed really important to you in the ROY race. Don't tell me you are discounting it now.

TSJ55
11-16-2012, 01:23 PM
Triple Crown is said to be overrated and WAR is trotted out as the end-all-be-all of a player's value. :eek: Hometown broke it down pretty explicitly I thought in regards to stats.

Trout is a undeniably a Super Stud and more fun to watch, but Miggy was the man this year.

I'm not usually one to discount numbers due to PEDs but I think it's legitimate rebuttal to the "timing" and "better TC numbers have been put up" argument. Of course bigger numbers have been put up, the game is changing back to baseball from Gorilla Ball.

texasdave
11-16-2012, 01:28 PM
Triple Crown is said to be overrated and WAR is trotted out as the end-all-be-all of a player's value. :eek: Hometown broke it down pretty explicitly I thought in regards to stats.

Trout is a undeniably a Super Stud and more fun to watch, but Miggy was the man this year.

I'm not usually one to discount numbers due to PEDs but I think it's legitimate rebuttal to the "timing" and "better TC numbers have been put up" argument. Of course bigger numbers have been put up, the game is changing back to baseball from Gorilla Ball.

He broke down one half of the game. Defense and base running count. Trout was the better player.

HometownHero
11-16-2012, 01:46 PM
He broke down one half of the game. Defense and base running count. Trout was the better player.

Its the half that wins MVPs! Defense and base running count very little! If those things mattered pitchers would never win the MVP. but when they dominate the game with their arms like Miguel Cabrera did with the bat they win them.

HometownHero
11-16-2012, 02:10 PM
Trout WAR - 10.0
Cabera WAR - 7.1

I'd say he more than made up that gap. And he is so much younger. That seemed really important to you in the ROY race. Don't tell me you are discounting it now.

WAR doesn't translate well to MVP unless you blow the league away like Bonds and A-Rod did, if WAR did matter Votto wouldn't be the MVP and about half of the MVP's of the last decade would be different and Pujols would be an even bigger legend.

The Tigers making the playoffs with a worse record than the Angels in worse division hold more water than WAR does in MVP talk. Age doesn't factor in when this is such a big counting stat award and Trout had less time to add to his numbers.

Ironman92
11-16-2012, 10:15 PM
I don't care much for arguing awards, all politics. And maybe I'm reading you wrong, but you seriously don't think BP's season was worth 2 6th place votes? Wow.

Would agree re Bruce.

No you're reading it correctly. No way he deserved top 6 votes.

Mutaman
11-17-2012, 02:39 PM
No you're reading it correctly. No way he deserved top 6 votes.


Played hard all year often despite not being 100% all of the time, batted in whatever place in the order the team needed him in, played spectacular defense, significantly elevated his game when Votto went down- can't begrudge him a couple of 6th place votes.

[deleted]
11-17-2012, 02:43 PM
"Best player" and "most valuable player" are synonymous. There's no better way to add value to your team than by being the best player in the league.

Trout was the best player in the league. I don't understand what possible argument people could make otherwise.

Cabrera won because of a statistical coincidence. If Josh Hamilton hits 2 more homeruns or Trout bats .005 better, Cabrera loses the Triple Crown and the MVP. It's kinda a joke.

drowg14
11-17-2012, 02:48 PM
As far as the AL MVP is concerned, I'll just say that I would have gone Trout hands down, but Cabrera still had a great year.

With regards to the NL MVP, Posey was a good choice. He is one of a few who had a good shot at it. McCutchen had a great year, but he cooled off down the stretch (as did the Pirates). Braun was the best offensive performer in the NL (imo), but he plays a lesser position. Votto would have ran away with it had he not gotten hurt, but he did. Probably should have finished higher than he did but oh well. Just my $0.02

Ironman92
11-17-2012, 05:49 PM
Played hard all year often despite not being 100% all of the time, batted in whatever place in the order the team needed him in, played spectacular defense, significantly elevated his game when Votto went down- can't begrudge him a couple of 6th place votes.

No...I can't.