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Wonderful Monds
11-21-2012, 05:57 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/reds-sign-emmanuel-burriss.html

DGullett35
11-21-2012, 06:06 PM
Wilson Valdez 2.0

Tom Servo
11-21-2012, 06:14 PM
Yeesh.

Gallen5862
11-21-2012, 06:24 PM
Matt Eddy
@eddymk
#Reds sign 2B Emmanuel Burriss, C Nevin Ashley & RHRP Jeff Stevens to minor league deals.

Patrick Bateman
11-21-2012, 06:26 PM
Yeesh.

He has championship heart bro. He should play at least 100 games.

Gallen5862
11-21-2012, 06:28 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Stevens

Jeffrey Allen Stevens (born September 5, 1983, in Berkeley, California) is an American professional baseball pitcher. He was originally selected by the Cincinnati Reds in the sixth round of the 2005 Major League Baseball Draft. He also attended Campolindo Highschool in Moraga.[1]

Stevens made his professional debut with the Billings Mustangs in 2005, going 4-4 with a 2.98 ERA.

Stevens started 2006 with the Single-A Dayton Dragons. He was traded to the Cleveland Indians as the player to be named later in the Brandon Phillips trade. He was assigned to Single-A Lake County Captains where he spent the remainder of the 2006 season.

Vottomatic
11-21-2012, 07:02 PM
Plaxico will be happy.

lollipopcurve
11-21-2012, 07:05 PM
Burriss is a good depth signing, given that the team needs a solid glove to backup Cozart (assuming Didi is in AAA, which is probably where he should be). Burriss is a good defender, can play around the infield, switch hits and has excellent speed. Pretty much a perfect profile for a utility infielder. He had some success in the big leagues as a 23 year old starter for the Giants a few years ago.

Gallen5862
11-21-2012, 07:08 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/reds-sign-emmanuel-burriss.html

Reds Sign Emmanuel Burriss


In 60 games with the Giants this past season, Burriss appeared at second base, third base, shortstop and right field. The 27-year-old posted a .213/.370/.221 batting line in 150 plate appearances. Burriss, San Francisco's first round selection in 2006, would have been arbitration eligible this offseason if the Giants had kept him on their roster.

Rojo
11-21-2012, 07:15 PM
Wilson Valdez 2.0

Basically, but Burriss is six years younger and less allergic to walks. On the whole, a slight upgrade.

GADawg
11-21-2012, 07:19 PM
I loved Emmanuel Burris in "Webster"....will had a cute little presence to the clubhouse

lollipopcurve
11-21-2012, 07:25 PM
Burriss is six years younger and less allergic to walks. On the whole, a slight upgrade.

He's got a lot more speed too.

corkedbat
11-21-2012, 07:49 PM
Meh. Juan Pierre lite. All three signings are just AAAA chaff.

CySeymour
11-21-2012, 08:04 PM
Meh. Juan Pierre lite. All three signings are just AAAA chaff.

Probably all they're meant to be, too.

RedEye
11-21-2012, 09:35 PM
Didn't the Reds trade Jeff Stevens for Brandon Phillips? Is that the same guy?

Superdude
11-21-2012, 09:35 PM
Matt Eddy
@eddymk
#Reds sign 2B Emmanuel Burriss, C Nevin Ashley & RHRP Jeff Stevens to minor league deals.

:laugh: Yea Stevens. I love seeing that trade come full circle.

Vottomatic
11-22-2012, 12:47 PM
Latest news is Walt signing Felipe Lopez, Austin Kearns, and Majewski to minor league deals.

Reds win that trade too. ;)

RedsManRick
11-22-2012, 12:48 PM
I'd prefer Burris to Valdez.

mth123
11-22-2012, 12:49 PM
I'd prefer Burris to Valdez.

Me too. If he's the utility infielder for cheap, it wouldn't be the worst thing.

camisadelgolf
11-22-2012, 08:39 PM
I'd prefer Burris to Valdez.
I'd prefer a box of rocks over Valdez since--theoretically, at least--there'd be no chance of Dusty writing it in the lineup.

cumberlandreds
11-22-2012, 08:50 PM
I'm hoping these signngs are just for AAA depth and not intended for the major league roster.

mth123
11-22-2012, 09:34 PM
Exactly who do you guys think would make a good utility infielder? Anybody good is going to be a starter somewhere. Good bench guys cost a lot of coin and I'd rather the Reds address the OF and the bullpen with the money they have.I'd be fine with Didi, but if the Reds want him to play every day, Burris isn't the worst choice. I prefer him to say Valdez or Janish.

edabbs44
11-22-2012, 10:09 PM
Exactly who do you guys think would make a good utility infielder? Anybody good is going to be a starter somewhere. Good bench guys cost a lot of coin and I'd rather the Reds address the OF and the bullpen with the money they have.I'd be fine with Didi, but if the Reds want him to play every day, Burris isn't the worst choice. I prefer him to say Valdez or Janish.

In thinking either Jeter or Longoria for the UT spot.

dougdirt
11-22-2012, 10:36 PM
Exactly who do you guys think would make a good utility infielder? Anybody good is going to be a starter somewhere. Good bench guys cost a lot of coin and I'd rather the Reds address the OF and the bullpen with the money they have.I'd be fine with Didi, but if the Reds want him to play every day, Burris isn't the worst choice. I prefer him to say Valdez or Janish.

I don't have a list of guys, but I just feel there has to be something better out there than a guy coming off of back to back seasons where he couldn't crack a .500 OPS in the Majors. There are pitchers who do that.

Tom Servo
11-22-2012, 11:07 PM
The thing is that guys like Valdez and Burriss are about the most dire of no-hit infielders. A quick list of guys who are/were available I'd rather pick up:

Jarrett Hoffpauir
Jason Bartlett
Ronny Cedeno
Luis Rodriguez
Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez
Adrian Cardenas
Brendan Harris

lollipopcurve
11-22-2012, 11:10 PM
there has to be something better out there than a guy coming off of back to back seasons where he couldn't crack a .500 OPS in the Majors

Versatility with defensive proficiency, speed, LH bat -- that's what makes him a decent fit. OPS is a limited way to look at the player required for the role.

dougdirt
11-22-2012, 11:15 PM
Versatility with defensive proficiency, speed, LH bat -- that's what makes him a decent fit. OPS is a limited way to look at the player required for the role.

Mentioning that he is a left handed bat, but then saying don't look at his OPS seems kind of silly to me.

Major Leaguers should be able to hit a little bit. I am not saying you need to be an .800 OPS bench guy or anything, but being a slight upgrade to a pitcher at the plate isn't exactly what I am looking for off of the bench. It isn't like the Reds are going to be pulling infielders in the late innings for defensive replacements or using Burris as a fill in if someone gets hurt, so his perceived spot on the bench should actually be able to swing the bat.

M2
11-23-2012, 02:45 AM
The thing is that guys like Valdez and Burriss are about the most dire of no-hit infielders. A quick list of guys who are/were available I'd rather pick up:

Jarrett Hoffpauir
Jason Bartlett
Ronny Cedeno
Luis Rodriguez
Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez
Adrian Cardenas
Brendan Harris

I'll be mildly surprised if the Reds don't pick up another utility IF or two to create some competition for that job. Hopefully only one will exist on the 25-man roster at any given time. I imagine Burriss wouldn't be offended by playing in Louisville if someone else beats him out for a spot.

mth123
11-23-2012, 09:18 AM
The thing is that guys like Valdez and Burriss are about the most dire of no-hit infielders. A quick list of guys who are/were available I'd rather pick up:

Jarrett Hoffpauir
Jason Bartlett
Ronny Cedeno
Luis Rodriguez
Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez
Adrian Cardenas
Brendan Harris

Hoffpauir, Cardenas and Harris can't play SS. May as well skip it and use Frazier if we need a SS. I like the Cedeno idea, but if it takes much more than the minimum, I'd pass and spend it elsewhere (though if the Reds were to deal one of Didi or Cozart, that would change the thought process). Rodriguez or Gonzalez would be OK I guess, but I don't see how they are better than Burris. I don't know much about Bartlett's health. If he's going to play and would sign for cheap, I'd be all for it. I have a feeling he's done though.

My point is that I wouldn't expend very limited resources looking for somebody to be the back-up SS when Burris and Didi are already on board. If the idea is a 3B/offensive option, there are guys I like better than the guys on that list. I am mildly intrigued by the Cardenas idea if it has to be a league minimum guy, but I'd spend a little more on a part-time 3B if it means Frazier is the LF solution and the new guy is splitting time with Rolen, but I could live with a Rolen/Cardenas combo at 3B and Frazier in LF if it means the resources are there for a decent CF option to be acquired. I'd pass on Harris and Hoffpauir completely.

traderumor
11-23-2012, 09:47 AM
Mentioning that he is a left handed bat, but then saying don't look at his OPS seems kind of silly to me.

Major Leaguers should be able to hit a little bit. I am not saying you need to be an .800 OPS bench guy or anything, but being a slight upgrade to a pitcher at the plate isn't exactly what I am looking for off of the bench. It isn't like the Reds are going to be pulling infielders in the late innings for defensive replacements or using Burris as a fill in if someone gets hurt, so his perceived spot on the bench should actually be able to swing the bat.I think Valdez had value in that you weren't suddenly seeing the infield turn into a sieve or discombobulate when he was called on. His bat was frustrating, but on a team where D is a large part of our ability to stay in games, having a glovey utility infielder is about more than a late inning defensive replacement.

One of the problems with your profile for that spot is that if a middle infielder with a plus glove can hit, he's a starter somewhere.

lollipopcurve
11-23-2012, 11:03 AM
Mentioning that he is a left handed bat, but then saying don't look at his OPS seems kind of silly to me.


Idea being he slots in easily for the RH-hitting Cozart or Phillips or any RH-hitting 3B against a tough righty if/when those guys need a rest. It's a bit of a nicety, but still, it's nice.

My central point stands -- Burriss would fill the utility INF position, primarily backing up at SS, and OPS is a secondary consideration for that spot.

Unless you want HRod there -- whose defense remains a question mark, particularly at SS -- I don't see a ready alternative. Personally, I'd rather HRod get regular ABs and defensive reps in Louisville in 2013.

lollipopcurve
11-23-2012, 11:06 AM
My point is that I wouldn't expend very limited resources looking for somebody to be the back-up SS when Burris and Didi are already on board.

Agree 100%. Burriss is, in effect, backing up both guys. If Cozart were to go down with an injury, Didi would get called up to start.


If the idea is a 3B/offensive option, there are guys I like better than the guys on that list. I am mildly intrigued by the Cardenas idea if it has to be a league minimum guy, but I'd spend a little more on a part-time 3B if it means Frazier is the LF solution and the new guy is splitting time with Rolen, but I could live with a Rolen/Cardenas combo at 3B and Frazier in LF if it means the resources are there for a decent CF option to be acquired. I'd pass on Harris and Hoffpauir completely.

I like HRod better than every one of those guys on Tom Servo's list.

Vottomatic
11-23-2012, 11:13 AM
I'm still disappointed the Reds didn't sign Dontrelle Willis to a minor league contract, start playing him in LF, and let him hit full time to see what he could do.

I know it's a pipedream, but I always loved watching Dontrelle come to the plate to hit. He is a superb athlete. He might of surprised people.

mth123
11-23-2012, 11:55 AM
Agree 100%. Burriss is, in effect, backing up both guys. If Cozart were to go down with an injury, Didi would get called up to start.



I like HRod better than every one of those guys on Tom Servo's list.

Not for 2013. H-Rod didn't hit much at AAA. I'm a little bearish on H-Rod. I was thinking he might be a good choice earlier, but I just don't think he'll hit much at this point and his defense is really iffy. A year in AAA might make him a viable 300 PA guy who hits and plays a little 2B and 3B against RHP for 2014, but I don't see him helping on opening day. These guys improve in spurts though. He might be ready by May for all that I know.

dougdirt
11-23-2012, 12:20 PM
One of the problems with your profile for that spot is that if a middle infielder with a plus glove can hit, he's a starter somewhere.

Not really. You are assuming my profile for that spot is a plus glove. He won't be. I don't need him to be. That is why we have Phillips and Cozart. If they go down, that is when I call up Didi to start for them. This team doesn't need a plus backup glove. They need a bat. They already have the gloves and on guys who can play 150 games if they stay healthy and if they can't, they have a guy in AAA who is a better glove than the starters anyways.

mth123
11-23-2012, 12:30 PM
Not really. You are assuming my profile for that spot is a plus glove. He won't be. I don't need him to be. That is why we have Phillips and Cozart. If they go down, that is when I call up Didi to start for them. This team doesn't need a plus backup glove. They need a bat. They already have the gloves and on guys who can play 150 games if they stay healthy and if they can't, they have a guy in AAA who is a better glove than the starters anyways.

I actually agree with this, but, IMO, the Reds won't. They are going to have a guy on the 25 man roster who can play decent defense at SS sitting on the bench. I actually agree with going with a more offensive 3B type who can play SS in a pinch (Wilson Betemit is my choice as a cheap acquisition who hits well against RHP) but doesn't play there 2 days in a row. I just think the Reds won't structure the roster that way. Even if they get a back-up for 3B who can play 2B and SS (like Miguel Cairo last year) they'll still have a MI as well IMO. If they carry a glove to back-up the MI, I want it to be for league minimium on a minor league deal. Sounds like Burris unless they are OK with Didi on the bench and not playing in AAA.

camisadelgolf
11-23-2012, 01:11 PM
I'm still disappointed the Reds didn't sign Dontrelle Willis to a minor league contract, start playing him in LF, and let him hit full time to see what he could do.

I know it's a pipedream, but I always loved watching Dontrelle come to the plate to hit. He is a superb athlete. He might of surprised people.
You know he retired, right?

lollipopcurve
11-23-2012, 01:22 PM
Not really. You are assuming my profile for that spot is a plus glove. He won't be. I don't need him to be. That is why we have Phillips and Cozart. If they go down, that is when I call up Didi to start for them.

Didi doesn't back up 2B or 3B or OF, meaning you'd still need someone to do that and to back up SS. Burriss has played all 3 of those spots. A guy with that kind of versatility -- again, you're ignoring this aspect of his value (as well as his pinch running value) -- allows you to invest in a bench player who doesn't really defend much but who can hit.

dougdirt
11-23-2012, 02:03 PM
Didi doesn't back up 2B or 3B or OF, meaning you'd still need someone to do that and to back up SS. Burriss has played all 3 of those spots. A guy with that kind of versatility -- again, you're ignoring this aspect of his value (as well as his pinch running value) -- allows you to invest in a bench player who doesn't really defend much but who can hit.

Didi could absolutely back up 2B. The Reds aren't going to be using Burris to do anything at third base or the outfield. Again, the guy simply can't hit. At all. He is a glove when we don't really need a glove. He makes a small amount of sense if the Reds are trading Cozart or Gregorius. Otherwise he is someone who makes no sense for what this team has and what it needs.

lollipopcurve
11-23-2012, 03:13 PM
He makes a small amount of sense if the Reds are trading Cozart or Gregorius. Otherwise he is someone who makes no sense for what this team has and what it needs.

So, you want a backup SS who can hit. That would be HRod? Or somebody they bring in on a major league deal (and if so, who)?

dougdirt
11-23-2012, 04:03 PM
So, you want a backup SS who can hit. That would be HRod? Or somebody they bring in on a major league deal (and if so, who)?

Why do I need a backup shortstop who can hit if I still have Didi? What I need is someone who can come off of the bench and give me a plate appearance that would be an upgrade to a pitcher. Yes, they need to be able to cover shortstop when Arroyo is pitching to give Cozart a rest once every two weeks or to fill in for an injured Cozart for 4 innings to finish up a game if he actually does get hurt. I don't see Burris as being that kind of guy though.

757690
11-23-2012, 05:55 PM
Why do I need a backup shortstop who can hit if I still have Didi? What I need is someone who can come off of the bench and give me a plate appearance that would be an upgrade to a pitcher. Yes, they need to be able to cover shortstop when Arroyo is pitching to give Cozart a rest once every two weeks or to fill in for an injured Cozart for 4 innings to finish up a game if he actually does get hurt. I don't see Burris as being that kind of guy though.

I think the idea behind Burriss is to have someone who can handle the utility job and let Didi start in AAA. I doubt both would make the opening day roster.

The team needs a middle infielder who can fill in for 3-5 days when Phillips or Cozart get banged up, need a rest, but aren't hurt enough to justify a DL move. In that case, what's most important is a guy who won't hurt you on defense. Every team has to have that guy.

lollipopcurve
11-23-2012, 06:31 PM
Yes, they need to be able to cover shortstop when Arroyo is pitching to give Cozart a rest once every two weeks or to fill in for an injured Cozart for 4 innings to finish up a game if he actually does get hurt. I don't see Burris as being that kind of guy though.

He is that kind of guy. He can also fill in for Phillips and for the 3B. And like, Valdez did a few times, play OF in a pinch. Plus, he has very good speed and a history of stealing a lot of bags. He'd give the team an actual pinch running threat, something they have not had in a while (and something you really should have on the bench, IMO).

Vottomatic
11-23-2012, 06:51 PM
You know he retired, right?

Yep.

Rojo
11-23-2012, 07:01 PM
I think the idea behind Burriss is to have someone who can handle the utility job and let Didi start in AAA. I doubt both would make the opening day roster.

Yeah, DiDi shouldn't be on the big league roster unless he's starting or you think utility IF is his ceiling.

dougdirt
11-23-2012, 08:10 PM
He is that kind of guy. He can also fill in for Phillips and for the 3B. And like, Valdez did a few times, play OF in a pinch. Plus, he has very good speed and a history of stealing a lot of bags. He'd give the team an actual pinch running threat, something they have not had in a while (and something you really should have on the bench, IMO).

No, he isn't that kind of guy. He can't hit to save his life. That is what we need. We need a hitter because the only reason that spot on the bench should be used is as a pinch hitter.

757690
11-23-2012, 08:32 PM
No, he isn't that kind of guy. He can't hit to save his life. That is what we need. We need a hitter because the only reason that spot on the bench should be used is as a pinch hitter.

Last season, every MLB team needed at least 500 defensive innings at 2B/SS from non-starters. Most needed at least 750. Many needed over 1000. That's the job of a utility infielder.

dougdirt
11-23-2012, 09:02 PM
Last season, every MLB team needed at least 500 defensive innings at 2B/SS from non-starters. Most needed at least 750. Many needed over 1000. That's the job of a utility infielder.

If you need that many innings, you call up someone else. If someone goes down, Burris will not be the guy taking over for them. The job of a utility infielder is to start once a week maybe and be a pinch hitter off the bench or a defensive replacement off the bench. Well, here in Cincinnati he won't be a glove off the bench late in games, so he is going to be a guy who is going to need to pinch hit or start once a week to give someone a rest. Fill that spot with someone who can actually swing.

mth123
11-23-2012, 09:09 PM
If you need that many innings, you call up someone else. If someone goes down, Burris will not be the guy taking over for them. The job of a utility infielder is to start once a week maybe and be a pinch hitter off the bench or a defensive replacement off the bench. Well, here in Cincinnati he won't be a glove off the bench late in games, so he is going to be a guy who is going to need to pinch hit or start once a week to give someone a rest. Fill that spot with someone who can actually swing.

I hear you, but I don't think they'll go with a defensive weakness backing up the MI. So if they're going to get a good defender "who can swing," that's probably a better player than all but about 10 or so starting SS and probably better than half the starting second baseman. I don't think they'll go with a corner IF type who hits as the guy to start once a week at SS.

dougdirt
11-23-2012, 09:14 PM
I hear you, but I don't think they'll go with a defensive weakness backing up the MI. So if they're going to get a good defender "who can swing," that's probably a better player than all but about 10 or so starting SS and probably better than half the starting second baseman. I don't think they'll go with a corner IF type who hits as the guy to start once a week at SS.

They don't need a corner IF who can start at SS.... but they could get someone who can outhit a pitcher. Right now, they haven't.

Tom Servo
11-23-2012, 09:22 PM
I'm with Doug here. At first I said 'Well, better Janish than Castro' a few years ago. Than it was "Well, better Valdez than Janish'. I'm not being fooled again, Burriss is no better than these other guys. The Reds have managed to find these guys who are not just bad, but historically/unbelievably bad and give them far too many at-bats.

757690
11-23-2012, 09:26 PM
If you need that many innings, you call up someone else. If someone goes down, Burris will not be the guy taking over for them. The job of a utility infielder is to start once a week maybe and be a pinch hitter off the bench or a defensive replacement off the bench. Well, here in Cincinnati he won't be a glove off the bench late in games, so he is going to be a guy who is going to need to pinch hit or start once a week to give someone a rest. Fill that spot with someone who can actually swing.

We have all seen Reds players get banged up, not enough to justify a DL stint, but enough to keep them out of games for up to a week. That's what a backup is for. That will happen many times during a season. You can't call guys up for 3 days over and over again.

Plus, you need a guy to give the starters rest, so the starters are fresh for the stretch run. That can't be done with callups.

A utility infielder is a need for every team. Almost none of them can hit. That's not part of their job description.

757690
11-23-2012, 09:30 PM
I'm with Doug here. At first I said 'Well, better Janish than Castro' a few years ago. Than it was "Well, better Valdez than Janish'. I'm not being fooled again, Burriss is no better than these other guys. The Reds have managed to find these guys who are not just bad, but historically/unbelievably bad and give them far too many at-bats.

You're actually making my case. They are all the same. Every team needs one, every team has one. None of them are good hitters.

It's like wanting a punter who is also a good tackler. A back up center who can hit threes. It would be nice, but ain't going to happen.

Kc61
11-23-2012, 09:41 PM
Reds have TWO backup infield spots up for grabs. Cairo's spot. Valdez's spot.

The Cairo spot has to hit. A non-shortstop backup infielder. Has to hit.

The Valdez, middle infield spot doesn't have to hit too much. His main ability is to play SS well.

I'm not sure Burriss fills either role. Not sure he is a true shortstop. Certainly doesn't hit like a Cairo type.

Of course - if the Cairo guy can field, and the Valdez guy can hit, all the better.

Didi could be the Valdez replacement. But I'd rather see him with regular at bats at AAA.

dougdirt
11-23-2012, 09:42 PM
We have all seen Reds players get banged up, not enough to justify a DL stint, but enough to keep them out of games for up to a week. That's what a backup is for. That will happen many times during a season. You can't call guys up for 3 days over and over again.

Plus, you need a guy to give the starters rest, so the starters are fresh for the stretch run. That can't be done with callups.

A utility infielder is a need for every team. Almost none of them can hit. That's not part of their job description.

Maybe it is time it becomes part of their job description then. Gloves can literally be had by every team in baseball for league minimum. The Reds just let one of the best ones they have had in the last 10 years walk as a minor league free agent. If you want a glove who can play everywhere but can't hit, they should have just kept Miguel Rojas. They let Chris Valaika walk and he could cover you at 2B, SS and 3B too. I am just saying that I am not willing to accept a glove without a bat simply because it has been something others have accepted. Most teams don't have guys at 3B, 2B and SS who are good gloves and an average of 28 years old. Our needs don't match up exactly with most teams because of how our team is built.

Kc61
11-23-2012, 09:58 PM
Maybe it is time it becomes part of their job description then. Gloves can literally be had by every team in baseball for league minimum. The Reds just let one of the best ones they have had in the last 10 years walk as a minor league free agent. If you want a glove who can play everywhere but can't hit, they should have just kept Miguel Rojas. They let Chris Valaika walk and he could cover you at 2B, SS and 3B too. I am just saying that I am not willing to accept a glove without a bat simply because it has been something others have accepted. Most teams don't have guys at 3B, 2B and SS who are good gloves and an average of 28 years old. Our needs don't match up exactly with most teams because of how our team is built.

The team structure will likely have a five man bench. Two backup outfielders. Two backup infielders. A backup catcher.

One of the two backup infielders has to hit. The other is usually a SS who can field.

I don't think Burriss will just be given either spot. He will probably compete for the backup SS spot, which is more of a defensive position.

Gregorius will be at AAA. If Cozart gets hurt he'll probably get called up, even with another SS on the roster.

The problem last year is that both Valdez and Cairo failed to hit. This year hopefully both positions will hit better. Burriss will have to earn one of the jobs.

Rojo
11-24-2012, 12:38 AM
Reds have TWO backup infield spots up for grabs. Cairo's spot. Valdez's spot.

The odds of two starting IF's getting hurt in the same game are about as likely as both catchers getting hurt in the same game. So I'm fine with one backup IF, provided he's legit at 4/5/6. And if he hits like a pitcher, fine. I can add another bat. Plus -- Mike Leake!

Roy Tucker
11-24-2012, 12:58 AM
These end-of-the-roster RZ discussions always seem to be the most impassioned.

Tom Servo
11-24-2012, 01:40 AM
You're actually making my case. They are all the same. Every team needs one, every team has one. None of them are good hitters.

It's like wanting a punter who is also a good tackler. A back up center who can hit threes. It would be nice, but ain't going to happen.
Right, but my point is that the Reds somehow always end up with literally THE worst of any team.

Topcat
11-24-2012, 07:49 AM
These end-of-the-roster RZ discussions always seem to be the most impassioned.

I do not know why but weird feeling on this guy honestly, My gut says we as in Red's fans will be pleasently surprised. The talent is there and no I do not expect another performance as we got with the low expectations Brandon Phillips had when acquired but something makes me feel this players chapter in his career is about to be rewritten.

dougdirt
11-24-2012, 01:34 PM
I do not know why but weird feeling on this guy honestly, My gut says we as in Red's fans will be pleasently surprised. The talent is there and no I do not expect another performance as we got with the low expectations Brandon Phillips had when acquired but something makes me feel this players chapter in his career is about to be rewritten.

What makes you think the talent is there? Career .693 OPS in the minors. Career .573 OPS in the Majors. He is 27 years old. He has never shown much of anything with his bat as a professional.

dougdirt
11-24-2012, 01:35 PM
These end-of-the-roster RZ discussions always seem to be the most impassioned.

Probably because guys not at the end of the roster are typically at least ok players.

JaxRed
11-24-2012, 01:40 PM
Frankly I think Bats fans will be pleased with his work. I don't think he's on the ML team.

Kc61
11-24-2012, 02:22 PM
The odds of two starting IF's getting hurt in the same game are about as likely as both catchers getting hurt in the same game. So I'm fine with one backup IF, provided he's legit at 4/5/6. And if he hits like a pitcher, fine. I can add another bat. Plus -- Mike Leake!

Last year, for most of the year, the Reds had three backup infielders. Cairo, Valdez, and Frazier, who also plays OF.

Last year, for most of the year, the Reds had only four outfielders and (obviously) only one backup outfielder, Heisey. Then, later in the season, Xavier Paul came up and then in September the whole roster expanded.

I'm interested to see how the Reds fix their bench. Obviously, Cairo and Valdez will be gone. Presumably Mesoraco/Hanigan will consume one bench spot. That leaves the OF, which right now would be Heisey and XPaul.

I would like to see the Reds use the bench to help with offensive balance. I would keep Paul and add another LH hitter or switch hitter.

I'm not a big Heisey fan, I'd rather see them add some OBP with his spot, but the Reds seem to like him and I wouldn't be shocked if he's back.

The Cairo/Valdez spots really hurt offensively last year, as did Mes, and we can debate Heisey. Paul was good. Burriss, a switch hitter, would help with balance but may be too weak a hitter to help very much.

Scrap Irony
11-24-2012, 05:33 PM
I'd take a gamble on Burris, if only because he's never played in a park like The GABP. Add a wRC+ near of 85 to a plus glove, and you've got a near league average backup hitter. And that's something hardly anyone has.

Rojo
11-24-2012, 05:40 PM
I'm not a big Heisey fan, I'd rather see them add some OBP with his spot, but the Reds seem to like him and I wouldn't be shocked if he's back.

Heisey's had some success at PH duties. Small sample size and all. He has some power, can run, play defense. He's not a bad guy to have.

Yet, the one thing you'd really want from a PH is that he gets on base, churns the batting order. And he's short there.

I'd like to add a professional on-base-getter like Overbay or Abreau, along with Paul, Heisey, catcher, backup IF.