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Plus Plus
11-26-2012, 10:39 AM
The Reds re-signed right-hander Todd Redmond to a one-year, Major League contract worth $490K, MLB.com's Mark Sheldon reports. Acquired from the Braves midseason, Redmond was the lone pitcher outside of Cincinnati's starting five to start a game in 2012.

Redmond has only appeared in one game at the MLB level. The 27-year-old started the second game of an August doubleheader, allowing four earned runs in 3 1/3 innings. He spent most of this past season at Triple-A, where he posted a 3.63 ERA with 8.2 K/9 and 2.4 BB/9 in 148 2/3 innings for the top affiliates of the Braves and Reds.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/reds-sign-todd-redmond.html

mdccclxix
11-26-2012, 10:54 AM
Does that mean he's on the 25 man or else we pay him and he can leave?

Plus Plus
11-26-2012, 10:57 AM
If memory serves me right, that gives him a spot on the 40-man, and since he is out of options he would be effectively on the 25-man.

traderumor
11-26-2012, 11:48 AM
Redmond's one start left a bad impression on me as a return to the Van Poppel, Haynes, Claussen, et al era. Leaves me in a cold sweat that he would ever start another major league game for the Reds.

Tom Servo
11-26-2012, 11:48 AM
Eww, why?

traderumor
11-26-2012, 11:49 AM
Eww, why?"minor league depth" is the reason I keep on reading on here. I think they just like having a bad AAA team.

Vottomatic
11-26-2012, 11:53 AM
I think it's a solid move. The guy may never pitch a major league game for us next year. But he's been a solid AAAA guy. I remember when he pitched that doubleheader game. He was extremely nervous and the announcers commented alot about it.

This may be the beginning of the dominoes falling to move Chapman to the rotation. Leake or Bailey traded next? Or will it be Cingrani or Corcino?

*BaseClogger*
11-26-2012, 12:13 PM
If memory serves me right, that gives him a spot on the 40-man, and since he is out of options he would be effectively on the 25-man.

What is the risk? If we try to ship him back to AAA and somebody else claims him, well then we are off the hook for his contract...

mattfeet
11-26-2012, 12:25 PM
While I don't love it by any means, I guess it's hard to hate.

M2
11-26-2012, 12:28 PM
This strikes me as a holding maneuver. The Reds may be thinking of Redmond as a long reliever or a candidate for 5th starter if other moves get made. Or maybe they think he's got some trade market this winter. He's got some ability so I can see where the team doesn't want to let him walk unless there's no possible fit for him on the 25-man roster. And we won't know that until late in spring training.

mdccclxix
11-26-2012, 12:29 PM
I don't know what his offerings are like, but he could be in line for a Sam Lecure type of role.

kaldaniels
11-26-2012, 12:38 PM
I think this article may have been missed by many this past season. No time like the present to post it.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/todd-redmonds-invisi-ball-partially-explained/

RED VAN HOT
11-26-2012, 01:11 PM
Perhaps someone can clarify this for me. It looks to me as if he was on the 40 man roster prior to this action. Doesn't this mean that the only ways he could be signed would be either a major league deal or a DFA and then a minor league deal. The latter would have resulted in a claim from another team. So the best the Reds could do is sign him for the ML minimum if they wanted to keep him. Is he really out of options? 2012 was his major league debut. I'm not thrilled with his upside either, invisiball or no, but this action seems like a no brainer to me.

REDREAD
11-26-2012, 02:03 PM
Eww, why?

Probably because our only AAA depth is Cingrani, who may get moved to the bullpen (or might make the ML roster).

You make moves like this (and Janish/Navarro last year) and hope you never have to call them up.

Redmond isn't great, but as of now, he's the best depth we got.

PuffyPig
11-26-2012, 02:05 PM
"minor league depth" is the reason I keep on reading on here. I think they just like having a bad AAA team.

Redmond is an excellent AAA pitcher.

Kc61
11-26-2012, 02:26 PM
Probably because our only AAA depth is Cingrani, who may get moved to the bullpen (or might make the ML roster).

You make moves like this (and Janish/Navarro last year) and hope you never have to call them up.

Redmond isn't great, but as of now, he's the best depth we got.

Redmond is a major leaguer next year, not AAA depth - assuming that the poster is correct who said he is out of options.

If he's on the forty, and he's out of options, he can't be sent down unless he is DFA'd or on injury rehab, as I understand.

I highly doubt the Reds will start Redmond in the rotation. He has no major league experience starting and this doesn't make sense to me on a contender.

More likely he will join (or replace?) Simon as a longer reliever, who can back up as a starter. Maybe Lecure gets promoted to set up man.

Reds now have a bunch of righty MLB relievers on the forty. Arredondo, Hoover, Lecure, Masset, Ondrusek, Redmond, Simon. Assuming two lefties, two righties will have to go.

REDREAD
11-26-2012, 02:32 PM
Redmond is a major leaguer next year, not AAA depth - assuming that the poster is correct who said he is out of options.

.


Yea, my mistake, he is out of options. I remember that now.
The Reds might be able to sneak him down to AAA at the end of spring training though. Not sure if that is the plan, but it's possible.

Maybe this move gives them some flexiblity to trade someone like LeCure/Logan/Arrendondo? Maybe the plan is to make Redmond a middle reliever. I remember Dusty's comment last year that Simon earned a "promotion" in the pen, but shortly thereafter we traded for Broxton.

Or maybe it's not that complicated. Maybe they just signed him for depth, hoping to upgrade during the offseason and figure it's worth spending 490k to have depth now, even if they cut him.. Maybe it's not even a guaranteed contract, since he's not arb eligible.. I recall some rule that you can cut a player early in the season and only pay about 20% under some circumstances (contracts that are not guaranteed)

Kc61
11-26-2012, 02:41 PM
Yea, my mistake, he is out of options. I remember that now.
The Reds might be able to sneak him down to AAA at the end of spring training though. Not sure if that is the plan, but it's possible.

Maybe this move gives them some flexiblity to trade someone like LeCure/Logan/Arrendondo? Maybe the plan is to make Redmond a middle reliever. I remember Dusty's comment last year that Simon earned a "promotion" in the pen, but shortly thereafter we traded for Broxton.

Or maybe it's not that complicated. Maybe they just signed him for depth, hoping to upgrade during the offseason and figure it's worth spending 490k to have depth now, even if they cut him.. Maybe it's not even a guaranteed contract, since he's not arb eligible.. I recall some rule that you can cut a player early in the season and only pay about 20% under some circumstances (contracts that are not guaranteed)

Good points. Here's my guess - Bryan Price sees something with Redmond.

Last year the Reds picked Simon out of thin air and correctly determined he had major league ability. I'm guessing Redmond is the same, they think he has something, and he will be with the Reds.

Another guess - Lecure gets a promotion to set up. He was dynamite down the stretch last year.

This pick up may indicate pessimism as to Mr. Masset's recovery. It may mean the end for Ondrusek as a Red (does HE have options?).

And a trade of Arredondo would not be shocking at all, but his second half would have diminished his trade value.

All interesting possibilities if you spend time, like some of us, wondering about the Cincinnati Reds' middle relievers. Only on RedsZone.

traderumor
11-26-2012, 02:51 PM
Redmond is an excellent AAA pitcher.I guess I look at a good AAA team as one that has some good short term options to fill short term needs due to injury. Last year's team was completely void of that type of talent and had a horrible record. I get excited over almost there, upwardly mobile types to care one lick about what's at AAA. Todd Redmond doesn't fit that bill, so his skill of "good AAA pitcher" is worth the same as a baseball card in the bike spokes to me.

cinreds21
11-26-2012, 03:36 PM
Even though they re-signed him, he is out of options and I would think he would be one of the first to be outrighted if a roster spot is needed.

OldXOhio
11-26-2012, 04:06 PM
Redmond's one start left a bad impression on me as a return to the Van Poppel, Haynes, Claussen, et al era. Leaves me in a cold sweat that he would ever start another major league game for the Reds.

Yeah, he looked very average and very hittable in that start.

camisadelgolf
11-26-2012, 04:07 PM
This is pretty much a non-story. Redmond was already on the 40-man roster. And yes, Redmond is out of options. If he doesn't make the team next year, he will be DFAed i.e. put on waivers. Because Redmond has been outrighted before, if no one claims him on waivers, Redmond has the option of becoming a free agent or being assigned to the minors.

PuffyPig
11-26-2012, 04:17 PM
This is pretty much a non-story. Redmond was already on the 40-man roster. And yes, Redmond is out of options. If he doesn't make the team next year, he will be DFAed i.e. put on waivers. Because Redmond has been outrighted before, if no one claims him on waivers, Redmond has the option of becoming a free agent or being assigned to the minors.

He'd likely choose going to the minors and collecting his major league contract.

This is about the Reds assuring themselves they have depth at AAA if needed in the starting pitching ranks. Cheap insurance.

traderumor
11-26-2012, 04:19 PM
He'd likely choose going to the minors and collecting his major league contract.

This is about the Reds assuring themselves they have depth at AAA if needed in the starting pitching ranks. Cheap insurance.Does that mean his mom is going to be on hold waiting to talk to someone when the insurance is needed?(cheesy car insurance commercial reference) :p

_Sir_Charles_
11-26-2012, 05:16 PM
If it's a major league contract, that means he has to be on the 40 man roster, and since he's out of options, it means he has to be on the 25 man roster. As what? The new long man? I certainly can't see him in the rotation. And I think both LeCure and Simon are better options as "long men". This one's puzzling to me. As AAA depth, it's great. But I don't think it can even BE that option.

And I was under the assumption that ALL major league contracts are guaranteed. It's the minor league contracts that have that option. Or have I been wrong in that assumption. It certainly wouldn't be the first time. :O)

camisadelgolf
11-26-2012, 05:36 PM
It's basically a minor league contract that pays him a lot more than a minor league contract would.

HokieRed
11-26-2012, 06:03 PM
I think there's not much really to be read into this move. I'd guess they think there's a good enough chance that Redmond is a usable major league arm that they don't want to lose him. A good spring training performance ought to get him the 7th spot in the bullpen, assuming no injury to a starter. If you wanted to make more of this, it'd probably be that Leake is either going to be moved or starting opening day in L'ville.

Scrap Irony
11-26-2012, 08:08 PM
It's basically a minor league contract that pays him a lot more than a minor league contract would.

This.

I do think this move makes Tony Cingrani much more likely to be a reliever with the Reds. Add the Broxton free agent dance (with Chapman being moved to the rotation should that happen), and you can begin to see that Jocketty is setting up an opportunity to deal a starter. Or two.

SirFelixCat
11-26-2012, 08:33 PM
I don't know what his offerings are like, but he could be in line for a Sam Lecure type of role.

My exact thoughts.

I'm going to assume that Lecure has been promoted to...setup or the like. You then have Broxton (assuming the rumors of them being close to working out a 3yr deal), Hoover, Marshall, Lecure as the main guys in the pen. :thumbup:

Blitz Dorsey
11-27-2012, 12:42 AM
As bad as he looked in his one start, I'll still take him over Soft J.

That trade was a win. We had/have zero use for Janish. Redmond is not good, but at least he provides some pitching depth.

paulrichjr
11-27-2012, 01:03 AM
Maybe someone else can remember but I am almost sure the Reds did this same thing with someone else a couple of years ago. He went to the minors later....Justin Lehr I believe

They did it for depth at AAA

mth123
11-27-2012, 02:27 AM
He'd likely choose going to the minors and collecting his major league contract.

This is about the Reds assuring themselves they have depth at AAA if needed in the starting pitching ranks. Cheap insurance.

Exactly. This move is to guarantee him major league minimum pay after he is DFA'd. If he chooses Free Agency, its likely he'd only get a minor league deal for about 20% of this one. Keeps him in the fold.

My guess is the move to DFA Redmond will come this week. If the Reds sign Broxton, the 40 man will be full. If the Reds still have Ludwick on their to do list, not to mention a possible 2013 return of Rolen, they are going to need the roster spot very soon IMO.

camisadelgolf
11-27-2012, 05:15 AM
Maybe someone else can remember but I am almost sure the Reds did this same thing with someone else a couple of years ago. He went to the minors later....Justin Lehr I believe

They did it for depth at AAA
Yes, except with Lehr, they outrighted him as soon as he signed the contract. I wouldn't be shocked to see the next Red outrighted.

RedlegJake
11-27-2012, 10:31 AM
I guess I look at a good AAA team as one that has some good short term options to fill short term needs due to injury. Last year's team was completely void of that type of talent and had a horrible record. I get excited over almost there, upwardly mobile types to care one lick about what's at AAA. Todd Redmond doesn't fit that bill, so his skill of "good AAA pitcher" is worth the same as a baseball card in the bike spokes to me.

LOL. Based on 1 ML start he is unqualified to even be a backend guy? You grade darn hard. I think he would be average graded against 5th starters. Maybe a tad better. I don't even see where he is especially park averse for GAB. Redmond wouldn't likely kill ya in the backend. Just my opinion. My only beef is I like the 2Cs better as well as Villareal(similar tho) if rotation help is needed. I see it as a mid bp RH stockpile part of which will end up dealt away.

Patrick Bateman
11-27-2012, 10:44 AM
The fact of the matter is that teams needs "replacement level" talent in the minor leagues.

If you don't keep guys like Redmond in the fold, the call ups start becoming sub replacement level types. That distinction does mean something, as when the injury bug hits, it makes sense to have as much talent in AAA as possible (look at the stuff the Jays had to call up last year after their injuries). Considering the Reds don't have a lot of high end prospects in the upper minors, our AAA depth is going to consist of non-prospect type guys, and I would characterize Redmond as being a pretty good version of that. It's a necessary type of signing, especially when one game here or there can be the difference between a playoff appearance. You dont want to lose that because you had to bring up Jeff Austin, Jimmy Anderson, or Josias Manzanillo.

M2
11-27-2012, 06:14 PM
The fact of the matter is that teams needs "replacement level" talent in the minor leagues.

If you don't keep guys like Redmond in the fold, the call ups start becoming sub replacement level types.

Exactly. This is why I'd be after Adam Wilk from the Tigers organization too. Ideally, lurking in AAA, your organization should have a few different types of pitchers on the verge of graduation.

Scrap Irony
11-27-2012, 06:56 PM
Exactly. This is why I'd be after Adam Wilk from the Tigers organization too. Ideally, lurking in AAA, your organization should have a few different types of pitchers on the verge of graduation.

Redmond, Corcino, Cingrani (perhaps), maybe Pedro Villarreal-- while I like Wilk as a target and understand your philosophy, I'd argue that's what Jocketty is doing already.

M2
11-28-2012, 10:30 AM
Redmond, Corcino, Cingrani (perhaps), maybe Pedro Villarreal-- while I like Wilk as a target and understand your philosophy, I'd argue that's what Jocketty is doing already.

Jocketty definitely has a decent stockpile going. I'd just add one more body, mainly because Cingrani, Corcino and Villareal might need a year in AAA before they'd be ready for majors. Plus, I think you might be able to get Wilk for Logan Ondrusek.