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View Full Version : Reds in Serious Talks with Broxton



MoneyInTheBank
11-26-2012, 04:51 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/reds-in-serious-talks-with-jonathan-broxton.html

Between this and the signing of Todd Redmond to a major league contract, I'm wondering if there is a deal in the works for a starter and will be moving Chapman to the rotation

HometownHero
11-26-2012, 05:20 PM
Dangerous move but could have high upside if works but be a killer if it fails.

If Chapman can become a top of the rotation starter, Broxton can match his 2012 season and we move a SP to fill another hole on the team we could well on our way to another runaway division winner but we could be hitting the bricks early if Broxton reverts back to 2010-2011 version and Chapman can't hold up to the innings and we deplete our SP depth.

panzecaz03
11-26-2012, 05:58 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/reds-in-serious-talks-with-jonathan-broxton.html

Between this and the signing of Todd Redmond to a major league contract, I'm wondering if there is a deal in the works for a starter and will be moving Chapman to the rotation

Hopefully getting a decent deal for Upton or someone for Leake and others

TSJ55
11-26-2012, 07:37 PM
I cannot put into words how scared I am of the Reds attempting to make Chapman a starter. I just cannot understand why anyone would think it's a good idea. In my mind it's not even a remote possibility.

MoneyInTheBank
11-26-2012, 08:04 PM
I cannot put into words how scared I am of the Reds attempting to make Chapman a starter. I just cannot understand why anyone would think it's a good idea. In my mind it's not even a remote possibility.

My personal choice would be for him to stay in the closer's role but I can definitely see the advantage of him being a starter. On one hand, there is the risk of injury, potential high pitch counts because of his wildness, ineffectiveness and even if he is good, the likelihood of being "Strasburg'd" late next season. On the other, if he's even 80% as dominant as he is as a closer, you have a top of the rotation arm. Those don't grow on trees

drowg14
11-26-2012, 08:20 PM
My personal choice would be for him to stay in the closer's role but I can definitely see the advantage of him being a starter. On one hand, there is the risk of injury, potential high pitch counts because of his wildness, ineffectiveness and even if he is good, the likelihood of being "Strasburg'd" late next season. On the other, if he's even 80% as dominant as he is as a closer, you have a top of the rotation arm. Those don't grow on trees

This is why I want the Reds to try the move. Aces are harder to find than closers. And while he is the most dominant closer, an ace is still more valuable.

webbbj
11-26-2012, 09:59 PM
not to mention closers are the most over rated position in baseball.

Or I mean the most misused position in baseball. For example chapman was worthless in the NLDS. They bring him in game 1 w/ a 4 run lead when anyone could close that out.

They dont bring him the 5th inning of a 2-0 game 5 w/ the bases loaded and the MVP at the plate.

Which situation is more important for chapman to be in? A meaningless 4 run save in the 9th or when the season is on the line in the 5th? And every manager does this too and its infuriating.

VirginiaPreps
11-26-2012, 10:19 PM
Fay just tweeted that Broxton's agent said deal not done, but substanial work as been done. Could come together quickly.

40YrRedsFan
11-26-2012, 11:28 PM
I don't mind Broxton, even though I wasn't thrilled when they got him. He did a good job for us in a setup role. He needs to stay there with Chapman closing. There is no way I would start Chapman. His control was/is not good. He couldn't get his breaking pitch even close to the plate at all. He wouldn't survive starting with one pitch. As a starter he would have to keep his fastball in the mid 90's. Major league hitters will hit those fastballs a long way. Not to mention his mental condition after he fails as a starter. Then his arm/shoulder fatigue. Throwing one inning 3 days in a row at the most, compared to several innings every 5 days. There is no comparison. IMO, he is not cut out to be a starter.

Old NDN
11-27-2012, 01:21 AM
Could be keeping Broxton in the setup role. They locked up Marshall last year, much the same way. Kind of a backup plan in case Chapman doesn't succeed with the change to starting?

TSJ55
11-27-2012, 07:41 AM
He needs to stay there with Chapman closing. There is no way I would start Chapman. His control was/is not good. He couldn't get his breaking pitch even close to the plate at all. He wouldn't survive starting with one pitch. As a starter he would have to keep his fastball in the mid 90's. Not to mention his mental condition after he fails as a starter. Then his arm/shoulder fatigue. Throwing one inning 3 days in a row at the most, compared to several innings every 5 days. There is no comparison. IMO, he is not cut out to be a starter.

I agree. Most explicitly the parts about Chaps head. Dude is simply not smart enough to be a starter. I've seen nothing that leads me to believe he's more pitcher than thrower.

Redus
11-27-2012, 08:14 AM
Id rather have Soria and Hoover backing him up.

texasdave
11-27-2012, 11:26 AM
It looks as if Madson won't be back. That was probably a long shot anyway.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/angels-ryan-madson-nearing-deal.html

Larkin88
11-27-2012, 11:54 AM
Hopefully getting a decent deal for Upton or someone for Leake and others

I'm still not convinced a conversation with Minnesota isn't revisited regarding Span. That whole sequence of events at the trade deadline was just too weird and I am a subscriber to the "where there's smoke, there's fire" idea... even if it takes a while to come to fruition.

Of course, I'm wrong all the time.

texasdave
11-27-2012, 12:38 PM
I'm still not convinced a conversation with Minnesota isn't revisited regarding Span. That whole sequence of events at the trade deadline was just too weird and I am a subscriber to the "where there's smoke, there's fire" idea... even if it takes a while to come to fruition.

Of course, I'm wrong all the time.

I saw a recent pic of Denard Span and it looks like he put on quite a bit of weight. Looks like he could cover center field standing still. I think he is considering changing his name to Denard Spandex. LOL.

In all seriousness, is Span an upgrade over Stubbs?

Larkin88
11-27-2012, 12:57 PM
I saw a recent pic of Denard Span and it looks like he put on quite a bit of weight. Looks like he could cover center field standing still. I think he is considering changing his name to Denard Spandex. LOL.

In all seriousness, is Span an upgrade over Stubbs?

Over Stubbs? For the role I think the Reds would use him in? Yes, I really do think that he is. And that's not even me hating on Stubbs. I'd take Span all day over BJ Upton and Victorino too. Now, of course it all comes down to what it would cost in discussing whether that marginal improvement is worth the going rate.

Maybe Denard really wants to come here, heard we were linked to Broxton, and just wanted to gain some weight to fit in? :laugh: I honestly didn't know he had put weight on and that's probably not something you want from someone whose game is predicated on speed.

OGB
11-27-2012, 08:55 PM
not to mention closers are the most over rated position in baseball.

Or I mean the most misused position in baseball. For example chapman was worthless in the NLDS. They bring him in game 1 w/ a 4 run lead when anyone could close that out.

They dont bring him the 5th inning of a 2-0 game 5 w/ the bases loaded and the MVP at the plate.

Which situation is more important for chapman to be in? A meaningless 4 run save in the 9th or when the season is on the line in the 5th? And every manager does this too and its infuriating.

I don't think I've ever agreed with something as wholeheartedly as I do with this. A championship team needs a strong bullpen from top to bottom, and then an elite closer isn't as vital. Hell, look at SF last year. A lot of people might have thought their bullpen would suffer greatly losing Wilson, but Romo and others stepped up and were one of the biggest reasons they won it all.

OGB
11-27-2012, 08:59 PM
I agree. Most explicitly the parts about Chaps head. Dude is simply not smart enough to be a starter. I've seen nothing that leads me to believe he's more pitcher than thrower.

You've never met or spoken to Aroldis Chapman. You've never spoken to another human being who has worked with Aroldis Chapman. You have no idea what his intelligence level is like or what he's capable of and your speculation is ridiculous.

40YrRedsFan
11-27-2012, 10:45 PM
I agree. Most explicitly the parts about Chaps head. Dude is simply not smart enough to be a starter. I've seen nothing that leads me to believe he's more pitcher than thrower.

I was referring to his confidence level if he failed at starting. This game is so mental, it could have very negative effects on his closing ability....

[deleted]
11-28-2012, 02:07 AM
Seems that the Reds have indeed signed Broxton to a multi-year deal:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/reds-jonathan-broxton-agree-to-deal.html

Road Pop
11-28-2012, 04:48 AM
Yep.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/28/report-reds-re-sign-jonathan-broxton-to-multiyear-deal/related/

Kcbuckeye22
11-28-2012, 06:39 AM
You've never met or spoken to Aroldis Chapman. You've never spoken to another human being who has worked with Aroldis Chapman. You have no idea what his intelligence level is like or what he's capable of and your speculation is ridiculous.

Gas on the fire.... I've seen his musical talents. That did make me question him.

webbbj
11-28-2012, 09:09 AM
i really hope this deal is not more than $12million/3yr

TSJ55
11-28-2012, 10:09 AM
You've never met or spoken to Aroldis Chapman. You've never spoken to another human being who has worked with Aroldis Chapman. You have no idea what his intelligence level is like or what he's capable of and your speculation is ridiculous.

I don't have to attempt to teach the guy math to know that he is good at one thing and on thing only...throwing gas. Period. His baseball IQ, like many other throwers, is minimal and that is fine, for a closer. "Don't think Meat. Just pitch"

Do I have to mention is off field decisions and at least one acrobatic on field decision too?

Girevik
11-28-2012, 01:24 PM
Chapman was the best starter the Reds had in Sprint Training last year, and a good starter is more valuable than a great closer. I love the signing and hope they can pull the move to starter off.

I also thing that starting might be better off for Chapman's arm as opposed to pitching 2 or 4 times a week.

Hondo
11-28-2012, 07:51 PM
i really hope this deal is not more than $12million/3yr

I guess you're upset...


The contract is worth $21MM, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports. The deal will pay Broxton $4MM in 2013, $7MM in 2014 and $9MM in 2015. It also includes a $9MM club option for 2016 with a $1MM buyout. If the Reds trade Broxton, the guarantee increases to $22MM, with the 2016 option becoming a mutual option with a $2MM buyout.

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/cincinnati_reds/index.html#C1iexjAC5u6zfzrT.99