PDA

View Full Version : Span, Pagan, Victorino, Upton...



RedEye
12-01-2012, 01:20 PM
Fascinating recent tidbits just posted on MLBTR:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/nl-links-simmons-upton-braves-reds.html


The Diamondbacks want Andrelton Simmons from the Braves in a Justin Upton trade, reports Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports (on Twitter). Earlier this month we heard the Rangers tried to acquire Simmons so they could flip him to Arizona for Upton.

Meanwhile, Dave O'Brien of The Atlanta Journal Constitution says (on Twitter) the Braves have interest in free agent outfielders like Ryan Ludwick, Shane Victorino, and Cody Ross even after signing B.J. Upton.

Both the Braves and Reds are trying to acquire a leadoff hitting left fielder, reports ESPN's Jim Bowden (on Twitter). Both teams had interest in Denard Span before he was traded to the Nationals.

The Reds have had conversations with the representatives for Victorino and Angel Pagan, GM Walt Jocketty confirmed to John Fay of The Cincinnati Enquirer. "Nothing formal though," added the GM, who confirmed speaking with Ludwick's agent as recently as last week.

kaldaniels
12-01-2012, 01:31 PM
It sounds like there will be one or more odd men left out once the bigger LTC are given out for these outfielders. I'm content to let some of the dust settle on a few deals then reassess.

Tadasimha
12-01-2012, 01:39 PM
I'm liking seeing Jockety talking to Pagan and Victorino while still talking with Ludwick.

Phhhl
12-02-2012, 02:06 AM
The deeper we get into the offseason, the more I think the Reds should just sign a guy like Ludwick and let Phillips lead off until Hamilton is ready. There is not a whole lot more that can be done to improve the pitching staff, realistically. But, even to deal Leake in a rash trade trade for a "leadoff hitter" could really burn the Reds if only a couple of injuries surface in 2013. The health of this rotation in 2012 was historic. It will not happen again.

As far as free agents, any deal with a guy like Pagan or Victorino could quickly become an albatross, considering the terms I have been hearing about those guys. As early as mid-season 2013, either one of these guys could be viewed as blocking Hamilton's development if they were to be signed. I can't see either of them as corner outfielders for this team for very long. Let someone else overpay for them. Phillips is a premier player. He may have struggled leading off in 2012, but he was excellent for a long stretch of 2011. The struggle last year was happenstance. He would be fine leading off until Hamilton is ready to take over centerfield. I have ALWAYS felt a much bigger problem was stacking the middle of the order behind Joey than the table setting.

Ludwick seems to want to return. I would love to see what this offense could do with a healthy Joey Votto hitting in front of Ludwick. Give him a two year deal for a little more than what Gomes got, because otherwise would be an insult to a better player. But, I truly believe such a deal with Ludwick would be all this team needs to do to prepare for 2013, and much easier to achieve than almost any other scenario I have seen discussed recently. I would be thrilled if this is the only move that Walt made the remainder of the offseason.

Superdude
12-02-2012, 07:01 AM
It sounds like there will be one or more odd men left out once the bigger LTC are given out for these outfielders. I'm content to let some of the dust settle on a few deals then reassess.

I've been thinking the exact same thing. With so many guys available, outfield seems like it could leave us a Madson at the end. I think Walt's gonna wait around and try to be someone's last resort.

The Voice of IH
12-03-2012, 01:09 PM
Shane Victorino is in serious talks with the Cleveland Indians

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/indians-have-serious-interest-in-victorino.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

As mentioned in my Shin-Soo Choo thread, the Indians are in desperate need of outfield stability. I am not sure if Victorino would provided that, but it would be a good pick up for them in the short term.

It also is one less option for the Reds if a deal is signed.

LoganBuck
12-03-2012, 01:30 PM
Jon Heyman on Twitter

Victorino has several 3 year offers and at least 1 for 4. many good options.

klw
12-03-2012, 04:17 PM
Pagan reups with the Giants. 4 years 40 million.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/giants-reach-agreement-with-angel-pagan.html

WildcatFan
12-03-2012, 04:18 PM
Pagan stays in San Fran for 4/$40m, according to Yahoo's Tim Brown.

klw
12-03-2012, 04:18 PM
Pagan stays in San Fran for 4/$40m, according to Yahoo's Tim Brown.

That is like so one minute ago.

WildcatFan
12-03-2012, 04:25 PM
That is like so one minute ago.

But I do it with style.

Vottomatic
12-03-2012, 04:25 PM
Pagan = 4/$40M = Giants

Vottomatic
12-03-2012, 04:26 PM
Seems like the market is overpaying again.

Makes me want the Reds to hold tight and not do anything stupid out of desperation.

klw
12-03-2012, 04:32 PM
But I do it with style.

So true


I can't help but think Ludwick will end up getting more money than we think.

WildcatFan
12-03-2012, 04:48 PM
I can't help but think Ludwick will end up getting more money than we think.

The outfield FA market is making for some serious overpay. I tend to think it's trade or stand pat. Oakland is apparently shopping Willingham for pitching; that's still the move that makes the most sense to me.

Superdude
12-03-2012, 05:14 PM
Pagan = 4/$40M = Giants

Between deflated offense and inflated revenue, I have no idea what a good contract even is at this point.

klw
12-03-2012, 05:15 PM
The outfield FA market is making for some serious overpay. I tend to think it's trade or stand pat. Oakland is apparently shopping Willingham for pitching; that's still the move that makes the most sense to me.

You mean the Twins?

I would like to see the Reds bring back Ludwick even if it is on a reasonable three year deal. It is not as if he is blocking anyone coming along as a prospect. A 2 year dal with a team option in year 3 would be preferable. It doesn't solve leadoff but it doesn't leave a gaping whole in LF either.

WildcatFan
12-03-2012, 06:15 PM
You mean the Twins?

I would like to see the Reds bring back Ludwick even if it is on a reasonable three year deal. It is not as if he is blocking anyone coming along as a prospect. A 2 year dal with a team option in year 3 would be preferable. It doesn't solve leadoff but it doesn't leave a gaping whole in LF either.

I did mean the Twins, but had Seth Smith on the brain from another thread.

kaldaniels
12-03-2012, 08:35 PM
I won't lie I was hoping for Pagan.

Tadasimha
12-03-2012, 08:54 PM
I won't lie I was hoping for Pagan.

I was too - but not at 4 years for 40 million.

This is going to raise the price for Victorino and Ludwick.

I'm hoping for Cody Ross now.

Wonderful Monds
12-03-2012, 08:56 PM
I was too - but not at 4 years for 40 million.

This is going to raise the price for Victorino and Ludwick.

I'm hoping for Cody Ross now.

It might not matter - MLBTR says the Reds have an official offer extended to Ludwick and a deal could be done sometime this week.

kaldaniels
12-03-2012, 09:27 PM
I was too - but not at 4 years for 40 million.

This is going to raise the price for Victorino and Ludwick.

I'm hoping for Cody Ross now.

40 million is 8.0 WAR based in the current market price. Sure the deal could wind up going either way, but I think I could have stomached the 40 million for 4 years. Not my money though.

Wonderful Monds
12-03-2012, 09:44 PM
Gammons tweeted this the other day (while apparently suffering a stroke?):
"Clear 'Backs will lobbytalk Upton if Gregorius, Bogaerts, Simmons or Profar is avaliable, whivh none on, thus far"

Gregorious is being mentioned alongside Profar? The D'Backs might bite on him for Upton? But Gregorious might not be available for that?

Wow.

kaldaniels
12-03-2012, 09:45 PM
Gammons tweeted this the other day (while apparently suffering a stroke?):
"Clear 'Backs will lobbytalk Upton if Gregorius, Bogaerts, Simmons or Profar is avaliable, whivh none on, thus far"

Gregorious is being mentioned alongside Profar? The D'Backs might bite on him for Upton? But Gregorious might not be available for that?

Wow.

Yeah I had to wipe my eyes and read that a second time just to be sure.

marcshoe
12-03-2012, 09:46 PM
Even if they sign Ludwick, they'll need a centerfielder. Unless Victorino comes cheaper than expected, Walt might lie low and see what shakes out. At this point Ben Revere might be an interesting target, but would likely cost too much (Bailey). I still think Gerardo Parra would be a good fit, but haven't seen any rumors.

RedEye
12-03-2012, 10:56 PM
I love Gammons, but has he ever been right on a rumor?

corkedbat
12-04-2012, 12:09 AM
Gregorious or Cozart, Leake, Ondrusek, Stubbs and Corcino for Upton and Trevor Bauer. A lesser package for Gerardo Parra instead of Upton (Heisey & Ondrusek?). Id be fine with Parra as a CF platoon partner for Stubbs.

Wonderful Monds
12-04-2012, 02:57 AM
I love Gammons, but has he ever been right on a rumor?

Hopefully not on this one. If Arizona will take Gregorious as the principle for Upton but the Reds think that's too much, I don't get that. He's blocked and Upton would fill a hole for several years and has an MVP ceiling.

RedlegJake
12-04-2012, 12:59 PM
If the Reds balked at that deal with Didi as the principal for Upton it would be all about the money. ALL.

Vottomatic
12-04-2012, 05:31 PM
Victorino almost a done deal for the Red Sox.

The Voice of IH
12-04-2012, 09:33 PM
Deal is done. Reds were not remotely close in the talks.

3 away and one more for this thread to die. Where will Upton land?