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Salukifan2
12-02-2012, 12:41 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1429163-chicago-cubs-reportedly-sign-coveted-japanese-closer-kyuji-fujikawa

and the cubs have already started spending money that will almost definitely cost them. They are going to suck anyway for the next 3 years, why would they give a 30 yr old japanese closer that money when they could spend it on developing the team they want 2 to 3 years from now.

drowg14
12-02-2012, 02:31 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1429163-chicago-cubs-reportedly-sign-coveted-japanese-closer-kyuji-fujikawa

and the cubs have already started spending money that will almost definitely cost them. They are going to suck anyway for the next 3 years, why would they give a 30 yr old japanese closer that money when they could spend it on developing the team they want 2 to 3 years from now.

Because they are the cubs?

MoneyInTheBank
12-02-2012, 02:41 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1429163-chicago-cubs-reportedly-sign-coveted-japanese-closer-kyuji-fujikawa

and the cubs have already started spending money that will almost definitely cost them. They are going to suck anyway for the next 3 years, why would they give a 30 yr old japanese closer that money when they could spend it on developing the team they want 2 to 3 years from now.

That was a bit of a head scratcher to me as well. They only signed him for 2 years and like you said, they are not going to be good. They are shopping Soriano and Marmol at a minimum, so I'm not sure what they are trying to do there

dMaus14
12-02-2012, 04:15 PM
Because they will trade Marmol this offseason for prospects or Dan Haren type. Then either at this deadline or the next they will flip Fujikawa to a possible contender for even better prospects. You have to remember that their farm system is horrible.

MoneyInTheBank
12-02-2012, 05:11 PM
Because they will trade Marmol this offseason for prospects or Dan Haren type. Then either at this deadline or the next they will flip Fujikawa to a possible contender for even better prospects. You have to remember that their farm system is horrible.

Seems like a high price to pay for the type of prospects you get for a relief pitcher

HometownHero
12-02-2012, 07:44 PM
I think this is a great deal for them! He's getting less than the current closer money and if he can be half as good as he was in Japan he will be one of the most sought after trade candidate's this or next season. They have money to spend and with the new rules limiting draft spending they are putting that Cash into a player who can bring them back players to fill the system later when its time for them to win again.

dMaus14
12-02-2012, 08:03 PM
Seems like a high price to pay for the type of prospects you get for a relief pitcher

But money means nothing to them. They have a lot of it. What they need is prospects which is something money can't buy on the open market.

MoneyInTheBank
12-02-2012, 08:06 PM
But money means nothing to them. They have a lot of it. What they need is prospects which is something money can't buy on the open market.

If money means nothing to them and they have a ton of it, just sign good players

HometownHero
12-02-2012, 08:14 PM
If money means nothing to them and they have a ton of it, just sign good players

Its not the time to add them they yet since they aren't ready to win even added 3 names. With the new draft rules the best way to rebuild is sign players to shot deals to build value and trade them, wait out all your bad contracts until you can eat a chunk and move them to get back prospects. Let your current ready prospect learn at the big league level mixed in with those guys and kill time to your high draft picks make it up the system.

In a couple more years they will have a flock of top Prospects almost ready right behind the wave of new players they get from trades and have their current young players entering their prime and around a 100M to add star players with those guys.

dMaus14
12-02-2012, 08:17 PM
They will trust me. He's doing what he did in Boston when they won the WS twice. You can sign big FA but if they get hurt you have to rely on your farm system. In 2007 they had 7 players minimally on their roster that performed (Youkilis, Pedroia, Buchholz, Ellsbury, Papelbon, Varitek, Lester), they also used their farm system to get Lowell and Beckett. Add in the signings of Ramirez, Schilling, Drew, and Matsuzaka - bam WS.

Salukifan2
12-02-2012, 08:17 PM
I disagree with it on the principle that the cub fans deserve to be told straight by ownership how they plan to fix this team, and after the whole Fukudome thing failed for them i don't think going out and spending a bunch of money on a japanese pitcher sends a message to the fans of, "We're trying to build from within this time." it means they are taking money away from player development and spending it on a risk, and Japanese pitchers are a huge risk. Darvish has been the most hyped so far, even more than Dice-k, and he was just average.

HometownHero
12-02-2012, 08:28 PM
it means they are taking money away from player development

They aren't doing this since the new rules limit what you can spend on the draft. Theo Epstein has build up his system by spending massive in the draft he can't do that any more so he's spending on players who he can trade to get prospects. They added this guy and also Scott Baker along with Scott Feldman on one year deals with the plan to eventually flip them all.

Theo's and the Cubs grand plan to rebuild was ruined by the addition of draft pools. If they had unlimited spending they would have took Mark Appel this year but he would have killed all they had to spend on the other players. This year they got 7,933,900 to spend and went over as far as they could spending 8,307,700 before getting taxed and losing future draft picks.

MoneyInTheBank
12-02-2012, 08:30 PM
Its not the time to add them they yet since they aren't ready to win even added 3 names. With the new draft rules the best way to rebuild is sign players to shot deals to build value and trade them, wait out all your bad contracts until you can eat a chunk and move them to get back prospects. Let your current ready prospect learn at the big league level mixed in with those guys and kill time to your high draft picks make it up the system.

In a couple more years they will have a flock of top Prospects almost ready right behind the wave of new players they get from trades and have their current young players entering their prime and around a 100M to add star players with those guys.

I just disagree that two relief pitchers are going to be the catalysts to land them a flock to top prospects

HometownHero
12-02-2012, 08:48 PM
I just disagree that two relief pitchers are going to be the catalysts to land them a flock to top prospects

If Fujikawa is half as good as he was in Japan he will be one of the most wanted players in trade talks. He contract is cheaper than what most closers are getting so that adds to his value.

If he gets the option picked up he's getting 14.5M with years of 4-4-5.5 with a 1M signing bonus guaranteed. We gave Broxton 21M for 3 years with a shot at 29M with years of 4-7-9-9 and the Dodgers gave League 22.5M guaranteed with a shot at a 4th year worth 7.5-9M depending on games finished.

So the secondary closer mark is seeing guys playing in the 9M range by the time the Contracts are tradeable while Fujikawa is getting 60% of that and has potential to be better than all the players in the secondary market. Everyone needs BP at every deadline and if you have an potential elite back of the pen arm you can get two very good prospect for him or get one top shelf guy.

His numbers are elite over there.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=fujika001kyu

MoneyInTheBank
12-02-2012, 08:59 PM
If Fujikawa is half as good as he was in Japan he will be one of the most wanted players in trade talks. He contract is cheaper than what most closers are getting so that adds to his value.

If he gets the option picked up he's getting 14.5M with years of 4-4-5.5 with a 1M signing bonus guaranteed. We gave Broxton 21M for 3 years with a shot at 29M with years of 4-7-9-9 and the Dodgers gave League 22.5M guaranteed with a shot at a 4th year worth 7.5-9M depending on games finished.

So the secondary closer mark is seeing guys playing in the 9M range by the time the Contracts are tradeable while Fujikawa is getting 60% of that and has potential to be better than all the players in the secondary market. Everyone needs BP at every deadline and if you have an potential elite back of the pen arm you can get two very good prospect for him or get one top shelf guy.

His numbers are elite over there.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=fujika001kyu

I just disagree that he'll bring back top shelf prospects unless he's a complete stud, which maybe he will, but I have my doubts

HometownHero
12-02-2012, 09:16 PM
I just disagree that he'll bring back top shelf prospects unless he's a complete stud, which maybe he will, but I have my doubts

The Contract alone has trade value being 60% of what players like Broxton who has a ERA over 3 and 74% save conversion rate. If he falls somewhere between the Leagues and Broxton's of the world and his numbers in Japan then the Cubs should have no problems getting something what the Pads did for Mike Adams at the 2011 deadline.

MoneyInTheBank
12-02-2012, 09:35 PM
The Contract alone has trade value being 60% of what players like Broxton who has a ERA over 3 and 74% save conversion rate. If he falls somewhere between the Leagues and Broxton's of the world and his numbers in Japan then the Cubs should have no problems getting something what the Pads did for Mike Adams at the 2011 deadline.

I don't agree with that either, but I don't really feel like debating this topic any further