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View Full Version : Gammons says Upton in mix if Gregorius is



buckeyenut
12-04-2012, 09:43 AM
Peter Gammons ‏@pgammo

Clear 'Backs will lobbytalk Upton if Gregorius, Bogaerts, Simmons or Profar is avaliable, whivh none on, thus far
If Gregorius is the linchpin of a deal for Upton from a Reds perspective, is there anyone here who would NOT pull the trigger? With Cozart already in place at SS, I deal Gregorius plus stuff for Upton every day of the week, as long as the stuff doesn't touch Hamilton or the ML starting roster / rotation. And I'd talk about Leake if they liked him.

Dan
12-04-2012, 09:49 AM
If Gregorius is the linchpin of a deal for Upton from a Reds perspective, is there anyone here who would NOT pull the trigger? With Cozart already in place at SS, I deal Gregorius plus stuff for Upton every day of the week, as long as the stuff doesn't touch Hamilton or the ML starting roster / rotation. And I'd talk about Leake if they liked him.

I think I proposed Leake/Gregorius for Upton sometime back. (Then again I've proposed a lot of deals for Upton, so that doesn't count for much.) It really does make sense for both clubs.

Hamilton
Phillips
Votto
Upton
Bruce
Frazier
Mesigan
Cozart

klw
12-04-2012, 09:51 AM
Just as long as Pokey Reese is off the table, I would send them Gregorius.

REDREAD
12-04-2012, 09:59 AM
I'm not sure if I would do the trade or not, but let me play Devil's advocate.

Upton's OPS the last 5 years:
816, 899, 799, 898, 785
Signed through 2015 at 9.7 million, 14.2 million, 14.5 million

If we could get the 900 OPS version, it's a lot more attactive.
He's going to be very expensive though in 2014-2015.. If he only can OPS around 800, that's a disaster. Upton's high price tag negates some of the advantage of his youth (He's going to be a FA at age 27-28)

The other option would be to keep Didi and just sign Ludwick.
Ludwick hasn't exactly been Mr Consistency either, but we probably get him signed for a little bit less money and he doesn't cost us prospects.

Benihana
12-04-2012, 10:10 AM
Just as long as Pokey Reese is off the table, I would send them Gregorius.

:laugh:

Gregorius, Leake and one of Corcino/Cingrani for Upton. BOOM!

(Too bad Ludwick will likely sign today taking this opportunity off the table).

Benihana
12-04-2012, 10:11 AM
I'm not sure if I would do the trade or not, but let me play Devil's advocate.

Upton's OPS the last 5 years:
816, 899, 799, 898, 785
Signed through 2015 at 9.7 million, 14.2 million, 14.5 million

If we could get the 900 OPS version, it's a lot more attactive.
He's going to be very expensive though in 2014-2015.. If he only can OPS around 800, that's a disaster. Upton's high price tag negates some of the advantage of his youth (He's going to be a FA at age 27-28)

The other option would be to keep Didi and just sign Ludwick.
Ludwick hasn't exactly been Mr Consistency either, but we probably get him signed for a little bit less money and he doesn't cost us prospects.

I know you are just playing devil's advocate, but last year aside, I think the Reds will rue the day they pick Ludwick over Justin Upton- especially for the next 3 years.

Superdude
12-04-2012, 10:21 AM
When did Gregorius' trade value become even comparable to Profar?

jhu1321
12-04-2012, 10:26 AM
I'm not sure how believable this report is. It would be hard to understand why Gregorious is valued that high with questions about his bat.

mdccclxix
12-04-2012, 10:31 AM
He is impressive at short though.

REDREAD
12-04-2012, 10:33 AM
I know you are just playing devil's advocate, but last year aside, I think the Reds will rue the day they pick Ludwick over Justin Upton- especially for the next 3 years.

I'm hoping the Reds only have to give Ludwick 2 years.
But we'll see how it plays out.
Maybe I'm nuts, but I think in 2013, it's not clear cut who will put up the better numbers. Ludwick has a chance to match Upton, or be close.

It's nice to see Didi in such high demand (if Gammons is right).
The Reds are going to be in a pretty nice position when they are going to be able to trade either Didi or Cozart.

The thing about Upton that makes me nervous is that the Reds need a true star if they are going to pay him 14+ million. Paying a LF that only OPSes 800 that much is a recipe for disaster.. I guess I'm not sure which Upton we'd end up getting.. There is some potential downside.

RedEye
12-04-2012, 10:36 AM
Seems like Gammons is having some difficulty typing on his smart phone. I feel his pain.

M2
12-04-2012, 10:38 AM
Would they also talk Upton if Cozart were available?

SidneySlicker
12-04-2012, 10:39 AM
I'd prefer Fowler to Upton, but I think the asking price for Fowler will simply be too much. Ludwick and Upton may be comparible this year however with a trade of Upton LF is taken care of for a number of years and at a pretty reasonable price. With Ludwick in 2 or 3 years they'll be having to fill the position again. Can you imagine the excitement going into Redsfest this weekend with the addition of Upton?

MikeThierry
12-04-2012, 10:51 AM
When did Gregorius' trade value become even comparable to Profar?

I was sort of thinking the same thing. What prospect in baseball's trade value is comparable with Profar. Heck, Oscar Taveras might be the best pure hitting prospect in the minors right now but I would still take Profar even over my man crush for Taveras.

RedEye
12-04-2012, 10:58 AM
I'd prefer Fowler to Upton, but I think the asking price for Fowler will simply be too much.

Wow. I'd really prefer Upton. Do you really think they'd ask more for Fowler than AZ would for Upton? If so, I'm not sure I know what color this sky is.

Sea Ray
12-04-2012, 11:02 AM
I'm not sure how believable this report is. It would be hard to understand why Gregorious is valued that high with questions about his bat.

I don't know how reliable the report is but there's more to it than the on field capabilities of these players. Money is a huge factor. How badly do the D-Backs want to shed Upton's contract and how many suitors are there to take on that kind of obligation? Unfortunately this, like most hot stove talk on RZ, comes down to money and our Reds are one of the have nots. We likely can't afford a $14 mill LF. 90% of the discussions around here boil down to not enough money for the Reds to acquire (Josh Hamilton, David Wright...)

Tom Servo
12-04-2012, 11:03 AM
Seems like Gammons is having some difficulty typing on his smart phone. I feel his pain.
http://i.imgur.com/wsUuN.png

SidneySlicker
12-04-2012, 11:11 AM
http://i.imgur.com/wsUuN.png

I think it's code for the Reds win the World Series in 2013. On second hand I hope that's not what it means. ;)

klw
12-04-2012, 11:14 AM
http://i.imgur.com/wsUuN.png

Didn't Mdngkac play for the Twins?

SidneySlicker
12-04-2012, 11:19 AM
I don't know how reliable the report is but there's more to it than the on field capabilities of these players. Money is a huge factor. How badly do the D-Backs want to shed Upton's contract and how many suitors are there to take on that kind of obligation? Unfortunately this, like most hot stove talk on RZ, comes down to money and our Reds are one of the have nots. We likely can't afford a $14 mill LF. 90% of the discussions around here boil down to not enough money for the Reds to acquire (Josh Hamilton, David Wright...)

While I understand the Reds are one of the small market ball clubs in MLB, I think their revenue is trending in the right direction. Combine that with the fact that after the 2013 season Bronson Arroyo's 12,000,000 contract comes off the books. So they could rewrite Upton's contract to defer some of the money for 2013 I think they could make it work. Also at that point hopefully a guy like Corcino will hopefully be ready to fill in the starting rotation and would be a cheap replacement to Arroyo.

M2
12-04-2012, 11:45 AM
Didn't Mdngkac play for the Twins?

Man, do I miss the rep button. Awesome post.

RedlegJake
12-04-2012, 11:46 AM
Upton might very well get a rather strong "GAB effect" boost. Not only would he leave Az but he' d lose several games in SD and LA too while gaining games in Chi and PNC. Plus he gets out of the glare of being "the guy" with ultra expectations. Here he has Joey andBP plus an exciting rookie coming on to lessen the spotlight. I'd love to nab him but I had this in the Bourn too much money bin. If it did happen - wow! Cast really is all in...

cinreds21
12-04-2012, 11:57 AM
I would easily do Leake/Bailey, Did and Cingrani without thinking twice about it.

Vottomatic
12-04-2012, 12:06 PM
Upton is only 24 years old, isn't he? Seems his best years SHOULD be ahead of him.

I'd have someone spread the rumor that the Reds/DBacks are close to a deal of Gregorius/Leake for Upton, and see if the Rockies call the Reds back and lower their demands for Fowler.

Steve4192
12-04-2012, 12:11 PM
http://i.imgur.com/wsUuN.png

Did Gammons just have a stroke?

Should we call someone to make sure he is alright?

MikeThierry
12-04-2012, 12:12 PM
Upton is only 24 years old, isn't he? Seems his best years SHOULD be ahead of him.

I'd have someone spread the rumor that the Reds/DBacks are close to a deal of Gregorius/Leake for Upton, and see if the Rockies call the Reds back and lower their demands for Fowler.

I think you're going to have to offer more than Gregorius and Leake for Upton. You might think highly of those prospects but the kind of prospects other clubs are potentially offering, the Reds will have to throw in more.

MikeThierry
12-04-2012, 12:14 PM
Did Gammons just have a stroke?

Should we call someone to make sure he is alright?

Maybe it's code for something. Lets see if I can translate it:

Midnight in Detroit is Not Good for Kicking A Can


possibly...

dougdirt
12-04-2012, 12:55 PM
I was sort of thinking the same thing. What prospect in baseball's trade value is comparable with Profar. Heck, Oscar Taveras might be the best pure hitting prospect in the minors right now but I would still take Profar even over my man crush for Taveras.

I don't think it is comparable, but it will get the conversation started. A lot of teams see Gregorius as a starting shortstop. That is what they need. The difference is, Profar gets the deal done by himself. Gregorius starts the talks and the teams work from there on the other parts.

Scrap Irony
12-04-2012, 01:01 PM
http://i.imgur.com/wsUuN.png

Madness! Dusty now gets Kutch at center.

Obviously, Jocketty has dealt for Andrew McCutchen to play center.

MikeThierry
12-04-2012, 01:01 PM
I don't think it is comparable, but it will get the conversation started. A lot of teams see Gregorius as a starting shortstop. That is what they need. The difference is, Profar gets the deal done by himself. Gregorius starts the talks and the teams work from there on the other parts.

Fair enough but I still think that it's going to take more than Gregorius and Leake to get Upton. I'm not even seeing Gregorius on the top 100 list of prospects on the MLB Network. I might get flak for this but I think this is a stuation where posters on here value him more than what other teams value him for.

MikeThierry
12-04-2012, 01:01 PM
Madness! Dusty now gets Kutch at center.

Obviously, Jocketty has dealt for Andrew McCutchen to play center.

haha good call!

SidneySlicker
12-04-2012, 01:03 PM
Wow. I'd really prefer Upton. Do you really think they'd ask more for Fowler than AZ would for Upton? If so, I'm not sure I know what color this sky is.

Looking further into Fowler I've changed my mind. I didn't realize that Fowler has never ops'd over 800. Upton has nearly ops'd 900 twice and come close to opsing 800 in his only other two major league seasons.
I also thought he was more of a stolen base threat than he really is.

blumj
12-04-2012, 01:11 PM
Did Gammons just have a stroke?

Should we call someone to make sure he is alright?
No cause for concern, this has been going on for years:

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/61649-peter-gammons-tweeterverse/

RichRed
12-04-2012, 01:14 PM
No cause for concern, this has been going on for years:

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/61649-peter-gammons-tweeterverse/

Makes Fay seem downright coherent.

dougdirt
12-04-2012, 01:17 PM
Fair enough but I still think that it's going to take more than Gregorius and Leake to get Upton. I'm not even seeing Gregorius on the top 100 list of prospects on the MLB Network. I might get flak for this but I think this is a stuation where posters on here value him more than what other teams value him for.

That list hasn't really been updated. Mayo was talking about it during the AFL Championship game that it will be updated in January. Gregorius is going to be a Top 100 prospect.

MikeThierry
12-04-2012, 01:25 PM
That list hasn't really been updated. Mayo was talking about it during the AFL Championship game that it will be updated in January. Gregorius is going to be a Top 100 prospect.

The Reds are still going to have to throw in more considering that other teams will be throwing in higher valued prospects in the mix.

RedlegJake
12-04-2012, 01:31 PM
The Reds are still going to have to throw in more considering that other teams will be throwing in higher valued prospects in the mix.

Undoubtedly. I expect Didi would simply be the first piece, then they'll want a good young arm or and probably a 4th good prospect. Cabrera is drawing serious talk at 4 prospects so that is likely the minimum for Upton (as well as Fowler).

dougdirt
12-04-2012, 01:35 PM
The Reds are still going to have to throw in more considering that other teams will be throwing in higher valued prospects in the mix.
Certainly. As I said earlier, he isn't on the same page as a Profar. But he is enough to get the conversation started (which seems to be focused around 'starting caliber shortstop').

MikeThierry
12-04-2012, 01:37 PM
Undoubtedly. I expect Didi would simply be the first piece, then they'll want a good young arm or and probably a 4th good prospect. Cabrera is drawing serious talk at 4 prospects so that is likely the minimum for Upton (as well as Fowler).

To me, what their asking for Cabrera is beyond ridiculous. There is some talk that the Cards are in on him and I would be highly opposed to getting him if they have to give up the talent to get him. There's a lot of warning signs showing Cabrera is regressing. I can't imagine what kind of haul Upton will get.

kaldaniels
12-04-2012, 01:38 PM
Fair enough but I still think that it's going to take more than Gregorius and Leake to get Upton. I'm not even seeing Gregorius on the top 100 list of prospects on the MLB Network. I might get flak for this but I think this is a stuation where posters on here value him more than what other teams value him for.

No flak on this one. I bet most here agree with me that he is not a top 100 guy.

757690
12-04-2012, 01:38 PM
Fair enough but I still think that it's going to take more than Gregorius and Leake to get Upton. I'm not even seeing Gregorius on the top 100 list of prospects on the MLB Network. I might get flak for this but I think this is a stuation where posters on here value him more than what other teams value him for.

The Reds have been reported to be willing to trade Cozart and put Didi as their starting SS in 2013. I think that speaks volumes about Didi's trade value.

I agree Didi isn't in the same league as rhe other SS's mentioned in Gammon's quote, however, I also think that you might be undervaluing Leake's trade value. He's not a throw in. He's a former 1st round pick with three years of rotation experience who has been around league average, and can give your team 150+ innings.

MikeThierry
12-04-2012, 01:46 PM
The Reds have been reported to be willing to trade Cozart and put Didi as their starting SS in 2013. I think that speaks volumes about Didi's trade value.

I agree Didi isn't in the same league as rhe other SS's mentioned in Gammon's quote, however, I also think that you might be undervaluing Leake's trade value. He's not a throw in. He's a former 1st round pick with three years of rotation experience who has been around league average, and can give your team 150+ innings.

I think what a lot of teams are looking for now are power arms and I don't know if you would describe Leake as a power arm, at least not compared to the other talent in the majors. There are a ton of young, up and coming power arms in the majors and I feel that if teams offer the chips they have, the Diamonbacks will look more favorably on those chips than Leake. For example (to keep it locally from my standpoint), if the Cardinals offered Shelby Miller and Trevor Rosenthal as part of a package for Upton, I'm willing to bet that the Diamondbacks take that package over a package the Reds offer with Leake. I can give you other teams prospects in the same type of scenario and the result would probably be the same.

SidneySlicker
12-04-2012, 01:51 PM
According to Cleveland radio the Indians reportedly just pulled out of a trade of Cabrera that was close because the trade partner wouldn't add a 3rd prospect. This would have led you to believe the third prospect would have got it done. Now we don't know what prospects were involved, but maybe the trade market isn't as stiff as some of us think.

RedsManRick
12-04-2012, 01:53 PM
According to Cleveland radio the Indians reportedly just pulled out of a trade of Cabrera that was close because the trade partner wouldn't add a 3rd prospect. This would have led you to believe the third prospect would have got it done. Now we don't know what prospects were involved, but maybe the trade market isn't as stiff as some of us think.

That was a third prospect in addition to a major-leaguer. Given the dearth of SS talent available, I'm sure the Indians will hold the line and take their time unless they get what they want.

757690
12-04-2012, 01:56 PM
I think what a lot of teams are looking for now are power arms and I don't know if you would describe Leake as a power arm, at least not compared to the other talent in the majors. There are a ton of young, up and coming power arms in the majors and I feel that if teams offer the chips they have, the Diamonbacks will look more favorably on those chips than Leake. For example (to keep it locally from my standpoint), if the Cardinals offered Shelby Miller and Trevor Rosenthal as part of a package for Upton, I'm willing to bet that the Diamondbacks take that package over a package the Reds offer with Leake. I can give you other teams prospects in the same type of scenario and the result would probably be the same.

If the Cardinals offered Miller and Rosenthal to the Reds for Leake I pray that they are quick enough to take it before the Cardinals chafe their mind. Lol

But that just means that two good pitchers getting paid league minimum and under control for five+ seasons are more valuable than one good pitcher whose about to get expensive and under control for only three more seasons.

However, I think Leake is worth more than either Miller or Rosenthal by themselves. I doubt teams care how hard a guy throws, if he gets results. Leake is proven decent starting pitcher. There are only around 50-75 of those guys around the league, which makes him more valuable than a young arm who hasn't nearly every time.

I(heart)Freel
12-04-2012, 02:05 PM
I think what a lot of teams are looking for now are power arms and I don't know if you would describe Leake as a power arm, at least not compared to the other talent in the majors. There are a ton of young, up and coming power arms in the majors and I feel that if teams offer the chips they have, the Diamonbacks will look more favorably on those chips than Leake. For example (to keep it locally from my standpoint), if the Cardinals offered Shelby Miller and Trevor Rosenthal as part of a package for Upton, I'm willing to bet that the Diamondbacks take that package over a package the Reds offer with Leake. I can give you other teams prospects in the same type of scenario and the result would probably be the same.

I suspect Leake's change-of-pace arm would sit nicely in the DBack's power roto. Further his Arroyo-like career.

dougdirt
12-04-2012, 02:05 PM
No flak on this one. I bet most here agree with me that he is not a top 100 guy.

I think you and a lot of others who share your opinion are going to be quite surprised at where Gregorius does rank inside Top 100s.

Look at the Baseball America league rankings. He was inside the top 20 for both leagues he was in and the Top 10 in one of them. In the upper minor leagues. In the Southern League he ranked higher than Daniel Corcino, who I don't doubt just about everyone on here would say is a top 100 prospect, right? Scouts really like Gregorius. He is no Profar, but heck, how many guys are? That kid is arguably the best prospect in baseball.

MikeThierry
12-04-2012, 02:06 PM
If the Cardinals offered Miller and Rosenthal to the Reds for Leake I pray that they are quick enough to take it before the Cardinals chafe their mind. Lol

But that just means that two good pitchers getting paid league minimum and under control for five+ seasons are more valuable than one good pitcher whose about to get expensive and under control for only three more seasons.

However, I think Leake is worth more than either Miller or Rosenthal by themselves. I doubt teams care how hard a guy throws, if he gets results. Leake is proven decent starting pitcher. There are only around 50-75 of those guys around the league, which makes him more valuable than a young arm who hasn't nearly every time.

I know Leake is still young but right now, he's proven as of right now he's an average starting pitcher in this league. Granted he plays in Great American so some consideration has to be taken there. However, he's been a 97 ERA+ pitcher in the majors. That isn't exactly spectacular.

I agree with you about Miller. He's unknown right now and has a ton of upside. I don't know what to expect from him. However, Rosenthal has been dominant thus far in his major league experience (short sample size I know). The Cardinals are facing the same issues that the Reds are with Chapman. They are debating whether to start him or keep him in relief. If the Cards keep him or not, Rosenthal will give any team he's with nasty, high quality stuff. His fastball is 100+, has a crazy good curve, and his changeup is very good in the 80's. He's as legit as you're going to get when it comes to power arms. Furthermore, he was unhittable in the playoffs.

SidneySlicker
12-04-2012, 02:07 PM
It's time to go all in. With Hamilton coming sometime in 2013 and hopefully starting in 2014, I think adding a player like Upton could be the piece to the puzzle that this team needs to get them over the hump. While I like Ludwick, lets not settle on a stopgap in LF. Lets build a team that can go on a run.

MikeThierry
12-04-2012, 02:10 PM
I think you and a lot of others who share your opinion are going to be quite surprised at where Gregorius does rank inside Top 100s.

Look at the Baseball America league rankings. He was inside the top 20 for both leagues he was in and the Top 10 in one of them. In the upper minor leagues. In the Southern League he ranked higher than Daniel Corcino, who I don't doubt just about everyone on here would say is a top 100 prospect, right? Scouts really like Gregorius. He is no Profar, but heck, how many guys are? That kid is arguably the best prospect in baseball.

I don't think there is an argument here. He IS the best prospect in baseball. I wouldn't say it's not even close but it's close to not even being close. :laugh:

dougdirt
12-04-2012, 02:14 PM
I don't think there is an argument here. He IS the best prospect in baseball. I wouldn't say it's not even close but it's close to not even being close. :laugh:

I don't know, I could at least listen to an argument for Dylan Bundy.

Wonderful Monds
12-04-2012, 02:15 PM
If the Cardinals offered Miller and Rosenthal to the Reds for Leake I pray that they are quick enough to take it before the Cardinals chafe their mind. Lol

Incidentally, Peter Gammons chafing his mind is what caused the Tweet that led to this thread.

MikeThierry
12-04-2012, 02:16 PM
I don't know, I could at least listen to an argument for Dylan Bundy.

mehh... I'll still take a regular starter over a starting pitcher.

dougdirt
12-04-2012, 02:20 PM
mehh... I'll still take a regular starter over a starting pitcher.

I am with you. But I know some scouts who wouldn't be. With that said, I expect Profar to be #1 on every major prospect list that comes out between now and March.

Scrap Irony
12-04-2012, 03:09 PM
According to Cleveland radio the Indians reportedly just pulled out of a trade of Cabrera that was close because the trade partner wouldn't add a 3rd prospect. This would have led you to believe the third prospect would have got it done. Now we don't know what prospects were involved, but maybe the trade market isn't as stiff as some of us think.

Were I Jocketty, I'd offer Leake, Corcino, and Yorman Rodriguez for Asdrubal Cabrera, plug him in at SS, and deal both Gregorius and Cozart (among other, less talented prospects) in a three-way deal:

Cincinnati sends Gregorius to Arizona and Cozart to Tampa. They receive Upton.
Arizona sends Upton to Cincinnati and receives Gregorius.
Tampa sends Jeremy Helickson to Arizona and receives Zack Cozart and Drew Stubbs.

Works for all three teams, IMO.

Wonderful Monds
12-04-2012, 03:28 PM
Were I Jocketty, I'd offer Leake, Corcino, and Yorman Rodriguez for Asdrubal Cabrera, plug him in at SS, and deal both Gregorius and Cozart (among other, less talented prospects) in a three-way deal:

Cincinnati sends Gregorius to Arizona and Cozart to Tampa. They receive Upton.
Arizona sends Upton to Cincinnati and receives Gregorius.
Tampa sends Jeremy Helickson to Arizona and receives Zack Cozart and Drew Stubbs.

Works for all three teams, IMO.

Tampa doesn't care about SS because they have Hak Ju Lee.

vic715
12-04-2012, 04:05 PM
Looking further into Fowler I've changed my mind. I didn't realize that Fowler has never ops'd over 800. Upton has nearly ops'd 900 twice and come close to opsing 800 in his only other two major league seasons.
I also thought he was more of a stolen base threat than he really is.

Fowler is a leadoff hitter so his OBP is more important than the slugging aspect of the OPS.

Wonderful Monds
12-04-2012, 04:17 PM
Fowler is a leadoff hitter so his OBP is more important than the slugging aspect of the OPS.

His price tag necessitates that he hit for power, however.

Tom Servo
12-04-2012, 04:54 PM
Apparently the Phillies and D'Backs are discussing Upton for Cliff Lee.

Benihana
12-04-2012, 05:20 PM
Apparently the Phillies and D'Backs are discussing Upton for Cliff Lee.

Amaro strongly denies.

Fay reporting Reds have talked to Arizona, and Parra, Kubel and Upton are all (obviously) available. He doubts the Reds could afford Upton.

So include Masset and/or Stubbs in the deal and better prospects (Gregorius, Leake, Corcino, Lutz). I really, really want to see Upton on this team.

Vottomatic
12-04-2012, 05:25 PM
Latest update from Gammons:

Mqzdp*^bv#a

Tom Servo
12-04-2012, 05:27 PM
Get me Parra and I'd be happy.

klw
12-04-2012, 05:30 PM
I am not really that familiar with the D'Backs. Why follow them after they dumped Wily Mo? Anyway would a Didi for Parra deal be fair? Overpay by the Reds? Can Parra play center regularly?

Scrap Irony
12-04-2012, 05:59 PM
I am not really that familiar with the D'Backs. Why follow them after they dumped Wily Mo? Anyway would a Didi for Parra deal be fair? Overpay by the Reds? Can Parra play center regularly?

It's an overpay, IMO.

Parra plus Kubel for Leake and Gregorius might be interesting for both clubs.

Parra CF
Phillips 2B
Votto 1B
Bruce RF
Frazier 3B
Kubel LF
Cozart SS
Mesigan C

That deal would make the team a bit lefty-heavy and may be susceptible to southpaw relievers, but a bench with Stubbs, Rolen, and Heisey would allow for easy substitutions who would rake as well.

Tadasimha
12-04-2012, 06:02 PM
I am not really that familiar with the D'Backs. Why follow them after they dumped Wily Mo? Anyway would a Didi for Parra deal be fair? Overpay by the Reds? Can Parra play center regularly?

Probably be considered a steal by the Reds, a Gold Glove winning MLB outfielder for a prospect SS with a total of 8 big league games under his belt.

Vottomatic
12-04-2012, 06:15 PM
The only 2 still available on the original list are Bogaerts and Gregorius.

Griffey012
12-04-2012, 06:36 PM
Fair enough but I still think that it's going to take more than Gregorius and Leake to get Upton. I'm not even seeing Gregorius on the top 100 list of prospects on the MLB Network. I might get flak for this but I think this is a stuation where posters on here value him more than what other teams value him for.

This is the same management that traded for Joe Saunders as a main piece in the Dan Haren deal because he was a "winner". So they have done crazier things...or has their management changed since then?

MikeThierry
12-04-2012, 06:39 PM
This is the same management that traded for Joe Saunders as a main piece in the Dan Haren deal because he was a "winner". So they have done crazier things...or has their management changed since then?

Good point...

Mo get on the phone and trade Daniel Descalso and Skip Schumaker for Upton!

Brutus
12-04-2012, 06:53 PM
Fair enough but I still think that it's going to take more than Gregorius and Leake to get Upton. I'm not even seeing Gregorius on the top 100 list of prospects on the MLB Network. I might get flak for this but I think this is a stuation where posters on here value him more than what other teams value him for.

Actually in this case, it's not about Reds' fans overvaluing him. There continue to be many, many reports online about the Diamondbacks and a few other teams really liking Gregorius a ton. I don't think this has anything to do with Reds fans but rather what a few other organizations seem to think of him.

Tom Servo
12-04-2012, 08:28 PM
Yeah, I honestly don't think many of us Reds fans rate Didi all that highly.

corkedbat
12-04-2012, 08:48 PM
Getting to the point where I'd be satisfied with Parra or DeJesus to platoon w/Stubbs. Why do I get the feeling though that we will end up with Coco Crisp?

RedEye
12-04-2012, 09:06 PM
What about Leake, Stubbs and Gregorious for Upton? I'm sure someone already posted this on a thread somewhere, but do you think AZ bites for this offer?

SidneySlicker
12-04-2012, 09:41 PM
What about Leake, Stubbs and Gregorious for Upton? I'm sure someone already posted this on a thread somewhere, but do you think AZ bites for this offer?

Nah. Stubbs doesn't really have any trade value. imo. Leake and Didi and you are still going to have to offer up probably 2 high level prospects.