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texasdave
12-04-2012, 10:55 AM
An offer has been placed on the table for Ryan Ludwick. A decision might be made as soon as today. I have read in other places that both the Braves, Mets and the Mariners are talking to Ludwick.



http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ryan_ludwick/

I have also read in a couple places that the Reds are looking for a LFer with an high OBP for the leadoff spot. That is not Ryan Ludwick.

I would like Ludwick back.


Meanwhile, Dave O'Brien of The Atlanta Journal Constitution says (on Twitter) the Braves have interest in free agent outfielders like Ryan Ludwick, Shane Victorino, and Cody Ross even after signing Upton.


The Mariners have checked in on Ryan Ludwick, among other hitters, tweets Jon Heyman of CBS Sports.


Meanwhile, the Mets have interest in the 34-year-old, tweets Joel Sherman of the New York Post.



Both the Braves and Reds are trying to acquire a leadoff hitting left fielder, reports ESPN's Jim Bowden (on Twitter). Both teams had interest in Denard Span before he was traded to the Nationals.

Redsfansince72
12-04-2012, 11:47 AM
i hope a fall back plan could be Cody Ross if Ludwick bolts..

Hey Meat
12-04-2012, 01:49 PM
i hope a fall back plan could be Cody Ross if Ludwick bolts..

I like that idea.

malcontent
12-04-2012, 02:59 PM
I want Ludwick back, and would pass on Ross if Ludwick can't be re-signed.

Here is one big reason (given the Reds' vulnerability to RHP).

"The other thing working in Ludwick’s favor is that he has a big edge over Ross against right-handed pitchers. Ludwick hit .280/.340/.513 against righties in 2012, compared to .256/.308/.422 for Ross. Lifetime, Ludwick has an .811 OPS against righties and a .774 OPS against lefties. Ross has a .727 OPS against righties and a .928 OPS against lefties."

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/03/mets-show-interest-in-ryan-ludwick/

MoneyInTheBank
12-04-2012, 05:27 PM
I'd like to have Ludwick back for sure and at 2/$13M I would be perfectly okay with it. But if the bidding starts getting into 3 guaranteed years at $8-9M annually, it's best to just let him go

texasdave
12-04-2012, 05:34 PM
TUESDAY, 4:12pm: "We're in the ballpark," Reds GM Walt Jocketty said of the team's offer to Ludwick. The team is now waiting on Ludwick and Jocketty expects resolution this week (John Fay reporting).

I hope it's not in the Shane Victorino ballpark. (3/37.5)

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#ah2LFo2O1zLz6gG9.99

Mutaman
12-04-2012, 05:39 PM
Ludwick is a winner, I was dead wrong about him, and I hope we resign him. But anyone who advocates replacing Ludwick with another right handed hitter, just doesn't get what the problem is.

MoneyInTheBank
12-04-2012, 05:42 PM
I hope it's not in the Shane Victorino ballpark. (3/37.5)

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#ah2LFo2O1zLz6gG9.99

If it is, why not go for Swisher at $16-17M annually?

Larkin88
12-04-2012, 07:04 PM
I think the Reds would absolutely have this done already if Ludwick was content with a two year deal. As it is, I think that's the Reds hope, but Luddy is probably wanting three years. Could see a two year deal with an option and buy-out for the third year being the compromise.

Something like 2/$18 with a $12-13 million option for 2015? I could live with that and feel like that's a reasonable "ballpark." Couldn't guess on the buyout clause, but probably a few million.

Probably wrong, but it's fun to guess.

Hondo
12-04-2012, 09:06 PM
Ludwick is going to want at least $10 Million per year...

The Victorino Signing just made it that much more plausible for Ludwicks Salary Demands...

Pass on him and trade for Justin Upton... Money better spent, with Arizona wanting young pitching and a SS... The Reds got the talent...

Let's Roll with Upton... I hope Walt suprises us all with J-Up!

HatchMo
12-04-2012, 09:14 PM
@jim_duquette

Hearing Ludwick is looking for 2 years and 7 mil per year. Perfect place for him is back in Cinci !


I'm down with that deal!

Hondo
12-04-2012, 09:19 PM
He would've already re-signed with the Reds if that were the case. You'll see.

DocRed
12-04-2012, 09:44 PM
@jim_duquette

Hearing Ludwick is looking for 2 years and 7 mil per year. Perfect place for him is back in Cinci !


I'm down with that deal!

I don't buy it...too cheap considering the recent signings....but that's a bargain if that's true.

scott91575
12-04-2012, 09:54 PM
Ludwick is going to want at least $10 Million per year...

The Victorino Signing just made it that much more plausible for Ludwicks Salary Demands...

Pass on him and trade for Justin Upton... Money better spent, with Arizona wanting young pitching and a SS... The Reds got the talent...

Let's Roll with Upton... I hope Walt suprises us all with J-Up!

Red Sox money does not set the market. All but 4 or 5 teams laugh at agents who try to compare money the Sox hand out with a salary their player deserves. If he wanted Red Sox money, he should have gone to the Red Sox. Of course it takes two to tango, and I don't think any of the traditional over payers are in on Ludwick. So Victorino money doesn't really carry over. It just proves once again the Red Sox front office is stupid with money.

texasdave
12-04-2012, 11:39 PM
9:59pm: Ludwick remains in discussions with the Reds and others, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. 9:32pm: Ludwick and the Reds are getting close on a deal, hears Yahoo's Jeff Passan.


Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#mVZ2BZUBgzCQkhWo.99

Meet the new left fielder; same as the old left fielder. Most likely.

HometownHero
12-04-2012, 11:45 PM
Ludwick wants to be here and will be here unless someone gets wild with money and makes him a contract offer he can't turn down.

holster10
12-05-2012, 07:44 AM
This kind of reminds me of the Cordero offer the Reds had on the table last offseason as Cordero was holding out for a better offer and we all know what happened. The Reds smartly decided to move on. Do the Reds only give Luckwick the same small window of deciding on their offer? I thought this deal would be wrapped up last evening so I am starting to feel like the longer this goes on the Reds may decide to move in a different direction. I like Ludwick but have the same trepidation others have regarding his age and his inconsistencies over the past several years.

bounty37h
12-05-2012, 09:48 AM
I hope it's not in the Shane Victorino ballpark. (3/37.5)

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#ah2LFo2O1zLz6gG9.99

I doubt even close, Walt said the numebrs for Shane were way more than they could do

DocRed
12-05-2012, 09:58 AM
2 years 8-10 million per year with an option for a third would be my guess.

Larkin88
12-05-2012, 10:20 AM
2 years 8-10 million per year with an option for a third would be my guess.

Sounds about right to me.

Pony Boy
12-05-2012, 10:27 AM
I think that Ludwick would take a more than a little less money to stay with the Reds. He would be crazy to go to a pitcher's park like Safeco or Citi Field after what happened to him in San Diego. He is the type of hitter that has a hard time getting out of slumps and needs to play his home games in a stadium that helps players stay out of slumps.

I think he is just using the Mets and the Mariners for leverage.

Redsfansince72
12-05-2012, 06:20 PM
sounds like there might be a salary game going on :Ludwick probably showed Walt what other teams are offering.

WEDNESDAY, 4:25pm: The Reds are "still a little ways apart" with Ludwick, GM Walt Jocketty told MLB.com's Mark Sheldon.

MoneyInTheBank
12-05-2012, 08:08 PM
I'm wondering if someone jumped in late with a better offer. If the reports were true, it was all but done and now they "are a ways apart"? I would hope that after the Reds took a chance on him and he was able to resurrect his career that he's not jerking them around in salary negotiations. He has a right to do whatever he wants, this is America after all, but it would just be poor taste, IMO

Hondo
12-05-2012, 10:26 PM
This is what's happening...

Jonny Gomes signed for 2 years at 5 Million per year.

Ludwick's price went up.

Shane Vicorino signed for 3 years at 13 Million per year.

Ludwick's price went up.

Just say no...

Unless it's 2 years/14 Million Total.

texasdave
12-06-2012, 10:34 AM
Miscellaneous Tweetage. FWIW.


Manuel said he thinks the Phillies need to add a veteran corner outfielder. Said a guy like Cody Ross or Ryan Ludwick would make them better.


#SFGiants want RH OF bat and had 2-year deal set up with Ryan Ludwick before Scutaro tapped them out.


Sources tell me Ryan Ludwick is interested in what the #Indians have to say; still waiting to hear from them though.

joshua
12-06-2012, 11:03 AM
Having no one on base for Votto and no one behind him to protect him at cleanup would be a disaster. Signing Ludwick and getting OBP at the top of the order is a must. If Walt doesn't accomplish that, they might as well have taken the money Votto gets this season and flush it down the toilet. You can't let other teams take the bat out of an MVP calibre player's hands and that's exactly what is going to happen if they don't get something done.

RedsBrick
12-06-2012, 11:51 AM
I hope Walt holds firm and doesn't overpay. I like RL and hope he's a Red but his production is certainly not guaranteed.

I know the argument is overplayed and it doesn't really exist anymore in professional sports, but where's the sense from Ludwick that this is a team on the cusp of winning big and he wants to be part of it? I know all's fair in love and negotiating but if they're not more than a million off shouldn't that play into it some for him? Does he think he's getting more years because if so he's smokin' crack.

swaisuc
12-06-2012, 12:15 PM
I want Ludwick back almost regardless of price. There really isn't anything out there you can get with the money you'd spend on him that would have the same kind of impact as bringing him back.

I don't want to turn him down and then either spend the money just to spend it or keep it and have a lower payroll. He's a pretty key component to the offense.

texasdave
12-06-2012, 03:30 PM
The Reds' two-year offer to left fielder Ryan Ludwick remains on the table, reports
MLB.com's Mark Sheldon. According to GM Walt Jocketty, "The agent said he spoke to Ryan last night and he’s still contemplating some things I guess." Ludwick could get as much as $3MM more over two years elsewhere, tweets John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer, which explains why he's taking his time.

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#jJhAVwCvi50222lA.99

OneManBand
12-06-2012, 05:59 PM
The Reds' two-year offer to left fielder Ryan Ludwick remains on the table, reports

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#jJhAVwCvi50222lA.99

His buddy Latos plays for the Reds. So why this is taking as long as it has is beyond me. The fact that teams are interested in him is great.. But who will give him playing time and a chance to win? If money is what he wants then take the said 3 Million extra annually. But don't say you want to stay here and then drag your feet. The organization wants you here, and you want to be here.. They should not be far apart then. Ludwick signed a contract last year and declined the option that would pay him 5 Million. So why not a 2 Year 16 Million dollar deal with year one being 7 and 2014 is 9 million?

I'm not a huge fan of the idea as I'd prefer a better option then a player who had one good season after quite frankly falling off the face of the baseball earth. But if the Reds are confident he can repeat an become a solid #4 hitter between Votto and Bruce.. So be it.

Hondo
12-06-2012, 06:43 PM
His buddy Latos plays for the Reds. So why this is taking as long as it has is beyond me. The fact that teams are interested in him is great.. But who will give him playing time and a chance to win? If money is what he wants then take the said 3 Million extra annually. But don't say you want to stay here and then drag your feet. The organization wants you here, and you want to be here.. They should not be far apart then. Ludwick signed a contract last year and declined the option that would pay him 5 Million. So why not a 2 Year 16 Million dollar deal with year one being 7 and 2014 is 9 million?

I'm not a huge fan of the idea as I'd prefer a better option then a player who had one good season after quite frankly falling off the face of the baseball earth. But if the Reds are confident he can repeat an become a solid #4 hitter between Votto and Bruce.. So be it.

Apparently you guys don't know that Shane Victornio signed for $39 Million over 3 years so that's $13 Million Per Year.

REPEAT $13 MILLION PER YEAR.

Ludwick is going to want at least $10 Million per year... They say that he can get $3 Million More per year somewhere else... This is simple math.

PASS...

OneManBand
12-06-2012, 07:08 PM
Apparently you guys don't know that Shane Victornio signed for $39 Million over 3 years so that's $13 Million Per Year.

REPEAT $13 MILLION PER YEAR.

Ludwick is going to want at least $10 Million per year... They say that he can get $3 Million More per year somewhere else... This is simple math.

PASS...

Shane Victorino & Ludwick are two different players. Shane has out played Ludwick over the course of 3-4 years. I'm with you on passing as I feel money can be spent elsewhere. But then again if we are going to throw 7 mllion a year on average to someone who may or may not close who am I to tell a organization what to do with their money.

americanoutlaw1
12-06-2012, 07:28 PM
Millions of dollars are on the line for this man. It is perfectly acceptable and understandable that he is taking his time and weighing all of his options

OneManBand
12-06-2012, 08:06 PM
Millions of dollars are on the line for this man. It is perfectly acceptable and understandable that he is taking his time and weighing all of his options

Especially because he is waiting to hear back from Cleveland. I mean he wanted to come here last year. I guarantee if he signs with us he will say and I quote, "I always wanted to come back to Cincinnati."

Hondo
12-06-2012, 08:20 PM
Shane Victorino & Ludwick are two different players. Shane has out played Ludwick over the course of 3-4 years. I'm with you on passing as I feel money can be spent elsewhere. But then again if we are going to throw 7 mllion a year on average to someone who may or may not close who am I to tell a organization what to do with their money.

I has nothing to do with the type of players they are. Baseball is a what have you done for me lately world, and other than LaRoche and Pierzynski, Ludwick has the most HR of any Free Agent and you really can't expext A.J. Pierzynski to keep up that HR output next year so really Ludwick and LaRoche are the only 2 Power Hitter available and Ludwick being the only OF Power option so this is based on Supply and Demand.

Simply Put... Ludwick wants and deserves the most Money he can make... Maybe his Heart is in Cincinnati but the almighty dollar and capitalism will probably prevail in this situation. We're not talking about the difference between $180 Million and $165 Million... We're talking $14 Million and $20 Million and for this being Ludwick's last chance to cash in... He's going to take the bigger paycheck and you can't blame him...

So while Victorino and Ludwick are indeed different players... I would argue hat Ludwick was a better ballplayer in 2012 than Victorino...

So yeah... Ludwick wants $10 Million per year. End of Story.

IMHO... I politely say "Pass."

Alpha Zero
12-06-2012, 08:23 PM
and other than LaRoche and Pierzynski, Ludwick has the most HR of any Free Agent

... Josh Hamilton?

Granted he's not a realistic option for the Reds, but I think you forgot him.

Hondo
12-06-2012, 08:27 PM
... Josh Hamilton?

Granted he's not a realistic option for the Reds, but I think you forgot him.

Yes Josh Hamilton... In the market for budgets, I was not including Hamilton.

Uhm, also... it's funny that that was the only response you had from my post. It's kinda like when you're arguing points with a girlfriend or wife and then she brings up something from left field and your conversation was in the realm of Football... Congratulations.

Alpha Zero
12-06-2012, 08:31 PM
Yes Josh Hamilton... In the market for budgets, I was not including Hamilton.

Uhm, also... it's funny that that was the only response you had from my post. It's kinda like when you're arguing points with a girlfriend or wife and then she brings up something from left field and your conversation was in the realm of Football... Congratulations.

No insult intended, I was just pointing out that there is another bopper on the market. I also didn't add much else since I tend to agree with your larger point. From the beginning, I've said I wouldn't go higher than 2 years and $14MM for Ludwick. Based on what other guys have been getting paid, it looks like he's going to be offered more than that by someone else. If that's the case, then so be it. With the prices on FA outfielders, the Reds would be better served by exploring the trade market.

Hondo
12-06-2012, 08:40 PM
No insult intended, I was just pointing out that there is another bopper on the market. I also didn't add much else since I tend to agree with your larger point. From the beginning, I've said I wouldn't go higher than 2 years and $14MM for Ludwick. Based on what other guys have been getting paid, it looks like he's going to be offered more than that by someone else. If that's the case, then so be it. With the prices on FA outfielders, the Reds would be better served by exploring the trade market.

I am really sarastic.

Larkin88
12-08-2012, 11:06 AM
Ludwick re-signing pending physical.

2 years/$15 MM. Mutual option for the third year, but I haven't seen the dollars on that.

Read more (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#wJRvfI3ZlYFB6mUV.99)

Hondo
12-08-2012, 06:06 PM
Ludwick re-signing pending physical.

2 years/$15 MM. Mutual option for the third year, but I haven't seen the dollars on that.

Read more (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#wJRvfI3ZlYFB6mUV.99)

Apparently I was wrong about Ludwick... He took less to remain with the Reds.

IMHO, I wish he would've took the higher money somewhere else because I would've liked the $7.5 Million Invested to get a Lead-Off Hitter or a Mashing LF.

Mutaman
12-09-2012, 05:51 PM
IMHO, I wish he would've took the higher money somewhere else because I would've liked the $7.5 Million Invested to get a Lead-Off Hitter or a Mashing LF.

:thumbdown:

Ludwick is smart, a hard worker, a class act, and perfectly fits the chemistry of this team. And chemistry is what this team has going for it.
yes we need a left handed hitter. but resigning ludwick was a very good investment.

Hondo
12-09-2012, 07:10 PM
:thumbdown:

Ludwick is smart, a hard worker, a class act, and perfectly fits the chemistry of this team. And chemistry is what this team has going for it.
yes we need a left handed hitter. but resigning ludwick was a very good investment.

Really? I would've rather spent $15 Million for a Serious Lead-Off Hitter than $7 Million on a LF.


The Reds need runners on base in front of Votto, Bruce, Phillips, etc...

This team's biggest weakness is no lead-off hitter, period.

jmac
12-09-2012, 10:05 PM
Glad the Reds resigned Ludwick and I fully expect Walt to address the leadoff problem by ST.

Larkin88
12-10-2012, 04:15 PM
Really? I would've rather spent $15 Million for a Serious Lead-Off Hitter than $7 Million on a LF.


The Reds need runners on base in front of Votto, Bruce, Phillips, etc...

This team's biggest weakness is no lead-off hitter, period.

Reading now its $7M a year with a $1M buy-out for the third year. So $15M guaranteed over three years. Haven't seen the dollars on the mutual option, though. Those are usually a little higher than the AAV of the contract.

In principle I don't diasgree with you Hondo. But I'd say the Reds offense has been marred by two big factors:

1) Nobody on base in front of Votto
2) No protection behind Votto (knowing Dusty won't bat Bruce there)

I totally agree with you that the OBP department is the more important of the two because of how prolific a hitter Joey is. But that prolificness is negated when the dude gets intentionally walked twice a night. To get the full value of guys in front of Joey, you need to have a few guys behind him. And honestly, I'm not sure that there was a better option for the dollars in free agency, especially since Ludwick came back under market value.

Now, of course, the Reds still need to fix issue #1 to get the full bang out of this Ludwick deal, otherwise we'll be an offense of five hole hitters like we were last year. I still am convinced that something happens this off-season to rectify that area, especially with how frequently Walt's been linked to leadoff guys really since last trade deadline.

My speculation still is that the Reds will address this through a trade. I don't think they wanted to pay market value on anyone for more than two years and, to my knowledge, none of the free agent leadoff guys have signed for fewer than 3 years or a total contract of less than $35M. I think they would rather trade away to get a guy who is already affordably under team control by contract than pay a premium for a bridge option until Billy gets here or in case he is uneffective when he does.

I'm not sure there was a guy to be had for one season, $15M. It might be Bourn now with the market drying up, but honestly, did anyone expect that? Would you have gambled on the wait and see route with a Boras client? I'm honestly on the fence there.

I'm wrong all the time, just thought I'd chime in.

Hondo
12-10-2012, 05:05 PM
Reading now its $7M a year with a $1M buy-out for the third year. So $15M guaranteed over three years. Haven't seen the dollars on the mutual option, though. Those are usually a little higher than the AAV of the contract.

In principle I don't diasgree with you Hondo. But I'd say the Reds offense has been marred by two big factors:

1) Nobody on base in front of Votto
2) No protection behind Votto (knowing Dusty won't bat Bruce there)

I totally agree with you that the OBP department is the more important of the two because of how prolific a hitter Joey is. But that prolificness is negated when the dude gets intentionally walked twice a night. To get the full value of guys in front of Joey, you need to have a few guys behind him. And honestly, I'm not sure that there was a better option for the dollars in free agency, especially since Ludwick came back under market value.

Now, of course, the Reds still need to fix issue #1 to get the full bang out of this Ludwick deal, otherwise we'll be an offense of five hole hitters like we were last year. I still am convinced that something happens this off-season to rectify that area, especially with how frequently Walt's been linked to leadoff guys really since last trade deadline.

My speculation still is that the Reds will address this through a trade. I don't think they wanted to pay market value on anyone for more than two years and, to my knowledge, none of the free agent leadoff guys have signed for fewer than 3 years or a total contract of less than $35M. I think they would rather trade away to get a guy who is already affordably under team control by contract than pay a premium for a bridge option until Billy gets here or in case he is uneffective when he does.

I'm not sure there was a guy to be had for one season, $15M. It might be Bourn now with the market drying up, but honestly, did anyone expect that? Would you have gambled on the wait and see route with a Boras client? I'm honestly on the fence there.

I'm wrong all the time, just thought I'd chime in.

I agree with you on the Line-Up but with the Cash allocation tight... my point was the $7 Million in 2012 would've been better off spent going towards a player in Free Agency or the Salary of a Player acquired through a Trade towards Lead-Off... IMHO I think Frazier could go between Votto and Bruce, but it sure would be nice to have BOTH a Heavy Right Handed Hitter in LF and a Legit Lead-Off Hitter...

But with payroll constraints, I would've rather had the $7 Million invested in a Lead-Off Hitter.

Larkin88
12-10-2012, 05:12 PM
I agree with you on the Line-Up but with the Cash allocation tight... my point was the $7 Million in 2012 would've been better off spent going towards a player in Free Agency or the Salary of a Player acquired through a Trade towards Lead-Off... IMHO I think Frazier could go between Votto and Bruce, but it sure would be nice to have BOTH a Heavy Right Handed Hitter in LF and a Legit Lead-Off Hitter...

But with payroll constraints, I would've rather had the $7 Million invested in a Lead-Off Hitter.

Oh, I see what you're saying. I'm just going to stay hopeful that when this full offseason comes into view, the parts and pieces start to make sense. Hoping for more of an offseason a la last year than the one that followed the Division Championship in 2010.

:beerme:

goreds2
12-11-2012, 12:41 PM
2 years / 15 mill