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View Full Version : Revere to the Phillies



Alpha Zero
12-06-2012, 01:22 PM
For Vance Worley.

Worley is pretty comparable to Leake. I don't think I would have given up Leake for Revere. His walk rate is pretty bad, and he has zero power. He is under team control for a while and can steal bases, but I don't think he would have been the answer to the lead off spot. It's still a notable acquisition from the Reds' perspective though because it's one more name off the board.

UPDATE: Pitching prospect Trevor May is also heading to Minnesota. I'm not familiar with the Phillies' system, but he doesn't look like much to me. He's young but has struggled mightily with control.

fewfirstchoice
12-06-2012, 01:25 PM
This is the guy Walt and the Reds should've went all out on. Young, great D, good lead off man, under team control til 2017 I believe. But no ole uncle sits on his hands and dies nothing as usual at these meetings.

dMaus14
12-06-2012, 01:34 PM
That leaves Michael Bourn with the Mariners who need a CF? Sounds like a chance to get him cheap especially with Hamilton still on the board.

americanoutlaw1
12-06-2012, 01:38 PM
I like Revere, but this is an offer Walt should not have topped and I'm glad he didn't. Both teams got what they needed here, even though I believe the Twins come out ahead. Minnesota is doing this rebuild right it seems. Trevor May has good stuff and they desperately need some immediate pitching on that staff which Worley will provide. But they have a nice nucleus beginning to form in the minors

Bonzo
12-06-2012, 01:43 PM
I like Revere, but this is an offer Walt should not have topped and I'm glad he didn't. Both teams got what they needed here, even though I believe the Twins come out ahead. Minnesota is doing this rebuild right it seems. Trevor May has good stuff and they desperately need some immediate pitching on that staff which Worley will provide. But they have a nice nucleus beginning to form in the minors

I agree. I think the Phils got fleeced; this is the equivalent of Leake and Corcino from the Reds (May was the #69 prospect pre-2012), which is a steep price to pay. With the contract that Michael Bourn is going to demand, though, it does save them a lot of payroll.

As a Twins fan, I'm hoping that they trade Josh Willingham after already dismantling 2/3 of their starting outfield from 2012. He'd be a good fallback option if the Reds are unable to re-sign Ludwick, but who knows what the cost might be. Would anyone do Corcino straight up for 2 years of Willingham at $14 million?

texasdave
12-06-2012, 01:45 PM
I agree. I think the Phils got fleeced; this is the equivalent of Leake and Corcino from the Reds (May was the #69 prospect pre-2012), which is a steep price to pay. With the contract that Michael Bourn is going to demand, though, it does save them a lot of payroll.

As a Twins fan, I'm hoping that they trade Josh Willingham after already dismantling 2/3 of their starting outfield from 2012. He'd be a good fallback option if the Reds are unable to re-sign Ludwick, but who knows what the cost might be. Would anyone do Corcino straight up for 2 years of Willingham at $14 million?

I like the Twins approach of grabbing pitching and more pitching. How are they looking as far as minor league talent in the outfield?

rgslone
12-06-2012, 02:04 PM
I've been saying on here for weeks that the Twins were willing to trade both Span and Revere. They're also willing to trade Willingham (and pretty much anybody else on the MLB roster). I don't know what it would have taken to get both Revere and Willingham from the Twins (although I suspect Homer Bailey and Stubbs; Cozart and Cingrani; or Leake and Didi would have probably gotten it done), but they sure had the pieces the Reds needed. Oh well!

americanoutlaw1
12-06-2012, 02:05 PM
I like the Twins approach of grabbing pitching and more pitching. How are they looking as far as minor league talent in the outfield?

Good cf prospect named Aaron Hicks should be ready by mid year and a corner outfielder named Oswaldo Arcia who also may be ready this year. I would say they both project as above average regulars, with the potential for more- especially Arcia... Also Byron Buxton just went to them number 2 overall in the draft. May be 3 or 4 years but a very high ceiling... Miguel Sano is probably the best 3rd base prospect in the minors as well. I've heard comparisons to Miguel Cabrera

americanoutlaw1
12-06-2012, 02:06 PM
I agree. I think the Phils got fleeced; this is the equivalent of Leake and Corcino from the Reds (May was the #69 prospect pre-2012), which is a steep price to pay. With the contract that Michael Bourn is going to demand, though, it does save them a lot of payroll.

As a Twins fan, I'm hoping that they trade Josh Willingham after already dismantling 2/3 of their starting outfield from 2012. He'd be a good fallback option if the Reds are unable to re-sign Ludwick, but who knows what the cost might be. Would anyone do Corcino straight up for 2 years of Willingham at $14 million?

It would be close. I wouldn't want to have to make the decision

sammonator
12-06-2012, 02:10 PM
This is the guy Walt and the Reds should've went all out on. Young, great D, good lead off man, under team control til 2017 I believe. But no ole uncle sits on his hands and dies nothing as usual at these meetings.

This. Totally Agree. And I think he is from Lexington correct?

Bonzo
12-06-2012, 02:45 PM
This. Totally Agree. And I think he is from Lexington correct?

Yup, he was drafted out of a high school in Lexington.

americanoutlaw1
12-06-2012, 03:54 PM
I got to see Revere play about 10-12 times this year and while thats obviously not a huge sample, I always came away impressed. Revere is a good/great defender with good contact ability. But he has no power. At all. Which is fine, but after this year we cant afford to have two outfied postions that project to hit 2-3 homers combined. By the way- after looking into his numbers i saw some caution flags I did not notice throughout the season. He was absoultely horrible the last 2 months of the year. Maybe the league got a better read on him, maybe he wore down, or maybe it was just some random flux in his numbers. But for a guy that relies so heavily on contact he doesn't have a particularly high line drive percentage- 18%- and doesn't walk much. Combine that with 0 power and I have more questions about how he will produce going forward than I originally thought. He is not a guy we should have flipped Leake and Corcino for- which is essentially what he netted.

New York Red
12-06-2012, 06:45 PM
This. Totally Agree. And I think he is from Lexington correct?
Lexington Catholic

BluegrassRedleg
12-06-2012, 06:49 PM
I'd give them 2 Leakes for Revere.

People were saying the same thing about Bourne before he went to ATL.

For the love of God, get a leadoff guy in here. Bip Roberts is the Mercury Morris of Reds leadoff hitters.

texasdave
12-06-2012, 06:55 PM
I'd give them 2 Leakes for Revere.

People were saying the same thing about Bourne before he went to ATL.

For the love of God, get a leadoff guy in here. Bip Roberts is the Mercury Morris of Reds leadoff hitters.


You would clone Mike Leake just to make a trade? :):) <---Mike 1 and Mike 2

OneManBand
12-06-2012, 07:15 PM
For Vance Worley.

Worley is pretty comparable to Leake. I don't think I would have given up Leake for Revere. His walk rate is pretty bad, and he has zero power. He is under team control for a while and can steal bases, but I don't think he would have been the answer to the lead off spot. It's still a notable acquisition from the Reds' perspective though because it's one more name off the board.

UPDATE: Pitching prospect Trevor May is also heading to Minnesota. I'm not familiar with the Phillies' system, but he doesn't look like much to me. He's young but has struggled mightily with control.

Sorry but Vance isn't like Mike Leake.. He is a solid #4 and possibly #3. He could probably be more compared to Homer Bailey. His health is a concern but I think the Twins got a good arm for a good defender/bat. The Reds match up better with Colorado in my opinion for Dexter Fowler.

Hondo
12-06-2012, 07:38 PM
The only thing I want to add is that the packages that were given for Span and Revere are no where close to what you guys have been saying the Reds sould've had to give up for either...

Furthermore, you have got to believe Walt has already gotten something lined out for CF/LF/Lead-Off because he would've probably gotten Span if that was available for a package similar to what the Nationals gave up...

Stay Tuned for HUGE NEWS hopefully!

Alpha Zero
12-06-2012, 08:58 PM
Sorry but Vance isn't like Mike Leake.. He is a solid #4 and possibly #3. He could probably be more compared to Homer Bailey. His health is a concern but I think the Twins got a good arm for a good defender/bat. The Reds match up better with Colorado in my opinion for Dexter Fowler.

As you said, health is a concern with Worley. He had a good 2011 but regressed quite a bit in 2012. Leake did the same. For their careers, most of their peripherals are pretty close:

K/BB - Leake: 2.54, Worley: 2.45
WHIP - Leake: 1.33, Worley: 1.35
K/9 - Leake: 6.0, Worley: 7.7
BB/9 - Leake: 2.4, Worley: 3.3
HR/9 - Leake: 1.3, Worley: 0.7
GB/FB - Leake: 0.98, Worley: 0.77

So Worley gets a few more K's but Leake has better control, so their K/BB ratios come out to be roughly equal. Their WHIPs are also just about equal. Leake has a much better ground ball rate, but also allows HRs at a much higher rate. Remember too that Leake is a superior hitter for a pitcher, which has some value to an NL club. Worley has obviously posted better results (i.e. ERA) than Leake so far, but I still think their pretty close to equivalent.

I actually think Leake is pretty underrated. Remember that this is a guy who had a great start to his rookie year and a very good sophmore year (3.86 ERA) while skipping the minors entirely. Yes, he struggled some in 2012, but nothing in his peripherals suggests that he won't bounce back and post an ERA a little under 4.00 next year.

BluegrassRedleg
12-06-2012, 10:05 PM
As you said, health is a concern with Worley. He had a good 2011 but regressed quite a bit in 2012. Leake did the same. For their careers, most of their peripherals are pretty close:

K/BB - Leake: 2.54, Worley: 2.45
WHIP - Leake: 1.33, Worley: 1.35
K/9 - Leake: 6.0, Worley: 7.7
BB/9 - Leake: 2.4, Worley: 3.3
HR/9 - Leake: 1.3, Worley: 0.7
GB/FB - Leake: 0.98, Worley: 0.77

So Worley gets a few more K's but Leake has better control, so their K/BB ratios come out to be roughly equal. Their WHIPs are also just about equal. Leake has a much better ground ball rate, but also allows HRs at a much higher rate. Remember too that Leake is a superior hitter for a pitcher, which has some value to an NL club. Worley has obviously posted better results (i.e. ERA) than Leake so far, but I still think their pretty close to equivalent.

I actually think Leake is pretty underrated. Remember that this is a guy who had a great start to his rookie year and a very good sophmore year (3.86 ERA) while skipping the minors entirely. Yes, he struggled some in 2012, but nothing in his peripherals suggests that he won't bounce back and post an ERA a little under 4.00 next year.

Closer than I suspected, but K and HR/9 are pretty substantial differences.

Alpha Zero
12-06-2012, 10:15 PM
Closer than I suspected, but K and HR/9 are pretty substantial differences.

The HR/9 is really the biggest difference between the 2 guys. I tend to care a lot more about K/BB than I do K/9.