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panzecaz03
12-06-2012, 12:50 PM
With the Phillies signing a CF, only other teams in contention for him would seem to be Marlins and Reds.

Bourn's agent Boras was the one to get the Ryan Madson a 1-year deal done last year with the Reds just to point out.

sammonator
12-06-2012, 01:13 PM
With the Phillies signing a CF, only other teams in contention for him would seem to be Marlins and Reds.

Bourn's agent Boras was the one to get the Ryan Madson a 1-year deal done last year with the Reds just to point out.

Yeah and look how much money it cost Madson because he got hurt. Boras won't make that mistake again unless he has no other option.

panzecaz03
12-06-2012, 01:20 PM
. Boras won't make that mistake again unless he has no other option.

This was the point I was trying to get to. The need for a CF is down to Marlins and Reds, and if Marlins don't get him, Bourn will have no other place to play besides Reds. It will probably cost a lot of money and I'm personally not expecting us to get him, but you never know with Walt

sammonator
12-06-2012, 01:31 PM
This was the point I was trying to get to. The need for a CF is down to Marlins and Reds, and if Marlins don't get him, Bourn will have no other place to play besides Reds. It will probably cost a lot of money and I'm personally not expecting us to get him, but you never know with Walt

I know. Don't think the Marlins can afford him. Mariners maybe?

40YrRedsFan
12-06-2012, 01:42 PM
I don't know why everyone thinks Bourn is a superstar. He stuck out almost as many times as Drew Stubbs last year. Stubbs 166 K's; Bourn 155 K's. We've lost out on Span and Revere who I'd much rather have for much less $$.

Larkin88
12-06-2012, 01:44 PM
I know. Don't think the Marlins can afford him. Mariners maybe?

He's got to mean the Mariners.

The Marlins wouldn't salary dump their entire team to then sign Michael Bourn at the peak of his free agency value (though it is diminishing with the market). And frankly, I don't think big free agents are going back to Miami unless they are guaranteed no-trade protection. That organization is a mess.

I wouldn't discount the Rangers as a potential suitor if Hamilton goes elsewhere. There's still a few chips that may fall that could totally change the market, like if Justin Upton ends up in Texas somehow.

Larkin88
12-06-2012, 01:50 PM
I don't know why everyone thinks Bourn is a superstar. He stuck out almost as many times as Drew Stubbs last year. Stubbs 166 K's; Bourn 155 K's. We've lost out on Span and Revere who I'd much rather have for much less $$.

Those comparisons with Stubbs are not fair. Comparable total K's but Bourn had almost 160 more plate appearances than Stubbs did. Stubbs' K rate was 30% and his walk rate was 8% last year. Bourn's was about 20% and 9% respectively.

This, in part, contributes to Bourn's on-base-percentage being over 100 points higher than Stubbs.

Now, all that said, I agree that I would rather have had Span at his cost. Revere maybe not so much. But I get your point and would much prefer a trade that netted someone who was team controlled more affordably.

panzecaz03
12-06-2012, 03:41 PM
Sorry I do mean Mariners

[deleted]
12-06-2012, 03:46 PM
The "Bourn's market collapses ala Madson" dream scenario has been on my mind for awhile now, though I think we're still a long ways off from seeing anything materialize for the Reds. I figure Texas would need to trade for Upton, which would probably allow Seattle to sign Hamilton (Texas would then sign Greinke, I'd think). At that point his price may fall, but then you're probably still competing with Atlanta (they're still looking for a lead-off hitting OF, and would probably consider Bourn if he falls to our price range). Hell, if it got that far I bet we'd have to outbid teams like Chicago, New York, maybe even Tampa or Milwaukee.

I'm kind of amazed that in an off-season that Span and Revere were traded, we landed neither. Not that I would have necessarily done the equivalent of either of these deals (or that I wouldn't have), just surprising that neither guy ended in Cincy.

panzecaz03
12-06-2012, 03:46 PM
I don't know why everyone thinks Bourn is a superstar. He stuck out almost as many times as Drew Stubbs last year. Stubbs 166 K's; Bourn 155 K's. We've lost out on Span and Revere who I'd much rather have for much less $$.


I don't know why everyone thinks we can get a better player than Drew Stubbs by trading Drew Stubbs.. everyone on here says it, and it makes no sense to me. But I'm not saying he's a superstar, but he is a good player with a much better OBP than Stubbs and better defense. I can go on and on...

Salukifan2
12-06-2012, 04:42 PM
I'm not sure why so many think Bourn is good solution to cincy's problems. From what ive read it appears he is looking for around 10 mil a year. Obviously he is an offensive upgrade over stubbs, but is he worth the amount he and Boras are going to ask for? I doubt it.

Bourn is a career .272 hitter. you don't pay .272 hitter 10 mil a year unless he hits 30 bombs, saves a dozen games a year with the glove, or steals like 100 bases.

Wily taveras had a career batting average and obp of .274 and .320

Bourn has a line of .272 and .339.

Taveras career fld% .985
Bourn fld% .992.

Taveras's largest annual salary was 2.25 mil and bourn is asking for 10 mil. based on those numbers bourn looks like he is worth more like 5 or 6 mil. not 10.

If the reds want a cheap solution to their leadoff problems give Hamilton a shot. If he still isn't ready after a month or two you can make an upgrade through a trade that will still be cheaper than the 10 mil bourn will want

Larkin88
12-06-2012, 04:43 PM
;2783928']

I'm kind of amazed that in an off-season that Span and Revere were traded, we landed neither. Not that I would have necessarily done the equivalent of either of these deals (or that I wouldn't have), just surprising that neither guy ended in Cincy.

I know I'm still picking the crow feathers out of my teeth on the Span front. After how closely we were linked at the trade deadline last year, I really thought that had legs.

nmculbreth
12-06-2012, 05:15 PM
I'm not sure why so many think Bourn is good solution to cincy's problems. From what ive read it appears he is looking for around 10 mil a year. Obviously he is an offensive upgrade over stubbs, but is he worth the amount he and Boras are going to ask for? I doubt it.

Bourn is a career .272 hitter. you don't pay .272 hitter 10 mil a year unless he hits 30 bombs, saves a dozen games a year with the glove, or steals like 100 bases.

Wily taveras had a career batting average and obp of .274 and .320

Bourn has a line of .272 and .339.

Taveras career fld% .985
Bourn fld% .992.

Taveras's largest annual salary was 2.25 mil and bourn is asking for 10 mil. based on those numbers bourn looks like he is worth more like 5 or 6 mil. not 10.

If the reds want a cheap solution to their leadoff problems give Hamilton a shot. If he still isn't ready after a month or two you can make an upgrade through a trade that will still be cheaper than the 10 mil bourn will want

Bourn is the best defensive CF in baseball and gets on base at a .350 clip, as such he'd be a massive upgrade over Stubbs et al. I'm not saying I'd offer him a 4-5 year deal but if his market evaporates he's willing to sign a one year deal and try free agency again in 2013 the Reds would be crazy not to make him an offer.

Salukifan2
12-06-2012, 05:37 PM
Just saw buster olney say bourn is looking for a deal worth 80 to 100 mil.......HAHA! That is the most ridiculous thing ive heard since zito got a 126 mil dollar deal. That is so over valued.

He is going to be 30 in three weeks which means his best base stealing and defensive seasons are probably behind him. If the reds could get him for 3 or 4 year deal worth 25 to 30 mil thats great. But 100 million!? Give me a break.

texasdave
12-06-2012, 05:42 PM
Just saw buster olney say bourn is looking for a deal worth 80 to 100 mil.......HAHA! That is the most ridiculous thing ive heard since zito got a 126 mil dollar deal. That is so over valued.

He is going to be 30 in three weeks which means his best base stealing and defensive seasons are probably behind him. If the reds could get him for 3 or 4 year deal worth 25 to 30 mil thats great. But 100 million!? Give me a break.

That might explain why he is still unsigned. Looks as if Philly saw those numbers and went in another direction.

DocRed
12-06-2012, 05:43 PM
I don't know why everyone thinks Bourn is a superstar. He stuck out almost as many times as Drew Stubbs last year. Stubbs 166 K's; Bourn 155 K's. We've lost out on Span and Revere who I'd much rather have for much less $$.

Compared to Drew Stubbs he is Babe Ruth..

RedTruck
12-07-2012, 02:53 AM
Compared to Drew Stubbs he is Babe Ruth..

To be fair, even the bat boy compared to Drew Stubbs is babe ruth:laugh:

I personally think Micheal Bourne could end up our way.

Upton goes to Texas
Hamilton goes to Seattle.

Don't know that many teams that still need a CF...it might be possible for a 1-2 year deal, though judging by the fact he wants a 80-100 Mill contract, I'm guessing that won't happen.

Mitri
12-07-2012, 11:10 AM
Gotta love Walt - the roster he has slowly built allows him to sit back and wait until the dominoes fall. His team could use a major upgrade at CF, but they don't necessarily need more than a minor tweak. LF needs addressed as well, but it will be on his terms. Even if Ludwick takes a bigger deal elsewhere, Walt has enough in-demand prospects to find get what this team needs.

A one-year Madson-like contract is ideal for this team, and Bourn is the perfect guy for the 2013 roster. He's what we hope Billy Hamilton can become. He'd be playing in another contract year. The perfect speedy, defensive-minded, one-year bridge to Billy. I thought it would be a guy like Victorino who would fall through the cracks. Maybe Swisher. And it might take $12 MM to make it work. But if I'm Bourn and I have the choice between 5 years in Seattle at $10 MM/per, or a chance to make a big splash in the Cincinnati lineup, I know where I'd go.

And if Bourn does end up in Seattle, Milwaukee, wherever - go get Crisp.

nheath22
12-07-2012, 11:44 AM
Bourn taking a one or two year deal with the reds would be a best case scenario for the Reds if the price is right. The market has definitely left both the reds and Bourn in a bind, but I still find it hard to believe a deal would actually get done between the two.

My guess is that after a few weeks, some team will shell out a 4 or 5 year deal to Bourn for 50-60M. Potentially Texas, Seattle, Boston, Dodgers, Giants in my eyes. Bourn is consistently an elite defensive CF'er, gets on base at a .350 clip and can steal 40 bags a year. He is a valuable commodity who will get his.

While I would love to see this deal get done, I would bet the Reds have a severe outside chance to get Bourn in a Reds uniform in 2013.

Hondo
12-07-2012, 05:40 PM
Hate to lose the Draft Pick but I too would offer Bourn a 1 year deal with a mutual option... Ya never know... Bourn might like winning a World Series Championship! But with Ludwick towing LF for the next two years, you can see CF being Hamilton's in 2014...

But yeah, go all in for Bourn on a 1 fer, and then if you have to, trade Ludwick in Winter 2013 and sign Bourn long-term and Hamilton starts in LF...

Like, St. Louis Cardinals Circa 1985 with Wille McGee and Vince Coleman!