PDA

View Full Version : Who would you rather have?



craftylefty
12-07-2012, 09:46 PM
Fowler or de Aza

RedTruck
12-07-2012, 09:53 PM
De Aza...maybe? I don't know. Fowlers good personality wise, and puts up good numbers but I have a feeling it's take more to get him.

Plus i'm not sure how much Fowlers numbers are inflated from Coors in terms of triples and doubles, and the small power that he does have.

IDK. There both good, and I would be exceedingly satisfied with both.

craftylefty
12-07-2012, 09:54 PM
De Aza...maybe? I don't know. Fowlers good personality wise, and puts up good numbers but I have a feeling it's take more to get him.

Plus i'm not sure how much Fowlers numbers are inflated from Coors in terms of triples and doubles, and the small power that he does have.

IDK. There both good, and I would be exceedingly satisfied with both.

i have a feeling we are going to sign david dejesus

RedTruck
12-07-2012, 09:58 PM
That wouldn't a be an awful idea. De Jesus has great plate displine, and has a career .281 batting, and .355 OBP. An he has some speed still left in the tank as well.

The Reds need a 1 year bride to Hamilton..if you sign fowler, or De Aza, does that make Hamitlon expandable?

craftylefty
12-07-2012, 10:00 PM
That wouldn't a be an awful idea. De Jesus has great plate displine, and has a career .281 batting, and .355 OBP. An he has some speed still left in the tank as well.

The Reds need a 1 year bride to Hamilton..if you sign fowler, or De Aza, does that make Hamitlon expandable?

they will sign or trade for someone for 1 year .....if they sign someone it will be dejesus if they trade it would probably be for someone like ellsbury

drowg14
12-07-2012, 10:03 PM
Ignoring price, Fowler.

Factoring in price, de Aza (I am assuming Fowler will cost more, but I could be wrong I guess).

DeJesus isn't a bad idea either. But doesn't he play LF mostly?

One other thing to consider is I think Fowler has a good enough bat to fit into LF if Hamilton pans out. With a good enough team a bopper in LF isn't as necessary as just having 8 good position players. De Aza on the other hand, I don't think he has the bat to put in LF. So when/if Hamilton is ready there would be a decision to make.

All that being said, I would still love it for the Reds to land de Aza. He would help the team as Hamilton seasons, and is good enough if BHam doesn't pan out.

craftylefty
12-07-2012, 10:05 PM
Ignoring price, Fowler.

Factoring in price, de Aza (I am assuming Fowler will cost more, but I could be wrong I guess).

DeJesus isn't a bad idea either. But doesn't he play LF mostly?

One other thing to consider is I think Fowler has a good enough bat to fit into LF if Hamilton pans out. With a good enough team a bopper in LF isn't as necessary as just having 8 good position players. De Aza on the other hand, I don't think he has the bat to put in LF. So when/if Hamilton is ready there would be a decision to make.

All that being said, I would still love it for the Reds to land de Aza. He would help the team as Hamilton seasons, and is good enough if BHam doesn't pan out.

As of right now who do you think we are the closes to signing or trading for

drowg14
12-07-2012, 10:07 PM
As of right now who do you think we are the closes to signing or trading for

No idea man. If I had to guess Fowler, since there has been a Fowler rumor for several days, whereas I didn't see the de Aza rumor till today. That is all I really have to go off of.

craftylefty
12-07-2012, 10:10 PM
[QUOTE=drowg14;2784446]No idea man. If I had to guess Fowler, since there has been a Fowler rumor for several days, whereas I didn't see the de Aza rumor till today. That is all I really have to go off of.[/QUOTE

Knowing Walt he will probably trade for someone know one is talking about .... My dark horse is Gerado Parra from Arizona

drowg14
12-07-2012, 10:14 PM
[QUOTE=drowg14;2784446]No idea man. If I had to guess Fowler, since there has been a Fowler rumor for several days, whereas I didn't see the de Aza rumor till today. That is all I really have to go off of.[/QUOTE

Knowing Walt he will probably trade for someone know one is talking about .... My dark horse is Gerado Parra from Arizona

Parra would be good for a platoon partner for Stubbs I think. Not quite good enough for starting duty, but he can hit righties well enough, and Stubbs can hit lefties.

craftylefty
12-07-2012, 10:15 PM
In all honesty i seriously doubt the reds make a trade and stubbs will be the cf in 2013

drowg14
12-07-2012, 10:19 PM
In all honesty i seriously doubt the reds make a trade and stubbs will be the cf in 2013

Yea, I see that as a good possibility. But I'm trying to stay optimistic! :thumbup:

craftylefty
12-07-2012, 10:21 PM
If you could have any of the guys mentioned who would you want

DocRed
12-07-2012, 10:21 PM
Either one over Drew Mendoza.

craftylefty
12-07-2012, 10:22 PM
Dexter Fowler will be a red by sunday i have a feeling

drowg14
12-07-2012, 10:25 PM
In all honesty i seriously doubt the reds make a trade and stubbs will be the cf in 2013


Dexter Fowler will be a red by sunday i have a feeling

???

craftylefty
12-07-2012, 10:29 PM
i have a feeling the reds will make a trade by sunday and it will be Dexter Fowler

Redlegs Homer
12-07-2012, 10:50 PM
I'd take Fowler. De Aza will be a good player IMO but I think it'd be much riskier to trade just because we've seen less of him compared to Fowler. Honestly if De Aza for some reason would cost a lot less I'd take him. The difference between the two is very small. Bill James is projecting them to have almost identical stats in two hitters parks.

Larkin88
12-07-2012, 11:13 PM
Really good thread everyone, good discussion. :beerme:

I think what's great is if a move is made that fits the profile really of any of these players named, we'll be a much better club in 2013. I'm optimistic something will happen, just because I'm sort of a "where there's smoke, there's fire" guy. And not to beat a dead horse, but really almost anything in the OBP department is an improvement over last year.

All that being said, I guess I would prefer a guy with more than one year left of team control through trade... or for that matter a one year free agent contract for Bourn. (not likely on a few levels) I love that Billy is on the way and if he pans out perfectly right away, I wouldn't mind having an outfield with a few on-base guys since we have so much pop elsewhere in the order. But I'm worried there will be some growing pains with his development, and would like some depth to platoon with him if Billy struggles or even in a platoon with him.

I think we might be able to get Parra and perhaps a B/C prospect back for Didi Gregorious. I'm a big fan of Didi, but I kind of wonder if that's the most expendable chip at the moment because I'm pretty confident in Cozart's future. Arizona has an expressed interest in him. That might be the move that could impact the organization the least while filling a good platoon role with Parra until 2016.


One other thing to consider is I think Fowler has a good enough bat to fit into LF if Hamilton pans out. With a good enough team a bopper in LF isn't as necessary as just having 8 good position players. De Aza on the other hand, I don't think he has the bat to put in LF. So when/if Hamilton is ready there would be a decision to make.

You know, that LF field point is excellent.

Fowler might be the guy I'd like to see the most, even considering the rumored price (now that we've established it ain't Bailey). Of the options I think we're realistically linked to, I might like his skillset the most. I do think it's fair to assume his extra base hits might suffer some without the forgiving gaps of Colorado. But I also think his HR power will always keep pitchers honest, letting Fowler work at-bats and thrive in the OBP category.

I do think it would start with Leake and Stubbs+. I would lead with Lotzkar or someone of that ilk, and it Colorado balks maybe consider Corcino. But that's probably it. No Cingrani.

I'll be happy with a lot of guys out there though and am excited to see if anything happens.

malcontent
12-08-2012, 02:10 AM
Fowler, clearly.

I also agree with Larkin88 on his power potential (especially at GABP), and that Cingrani shouldn't be offered.

HometownHero
12-08-2012, 07:33 AM
Alejandro De Aza all day, every day. Fowler hasn't hit away from Coors field and had a .390 BABIB in the first year he's ever hit above .266. People are getting fooled by his overall numbers due to Coors field inflated his numbers, .882 life time OPS there vs .698 on the road.

drowg14
12-08-2012, 07:51 AM
Alejandro De Aza all day, every day. Fowler hasn't hit away from Coors field and had a .390 BABIB in the first year he's ever hit above .266. People are getting fooled by his overall numbers due to Coors field inflated his numbers, .882 life time OPS there vs .698 on the road.

This was the same argument people had with Matt Holliday. Once players leave Coors, their splits seem to normalize.

HometownHero
12-08-2012, 08:16 AM
This was the same argument people had with Matt Holliday. Once players leave Coors, their splits normalize.

Matt Holliday could hit on the road just not as off the charts great as he did in Coors, Fowler hasn't shown he can hit on the road one bit. Holliday had road OPS of over .800 and his last year with Colorado was just under .900.

He has a higher OBP with the Cards but his numbers aren't as good as they were with Colorado .319 down to .308 and SLG .552 down to .528 and those numbers are with his good but not Matt Holliday level seasons his first year and a half when he was a .800 OPS player.

MoneyInTheBank
12-08-2012, 08:25 AM
Alejandro De Aza all day, every day. Fowler hasn't hit away from Coors field and had a .390 BABIB in the first year he's ever hit above .266. People are getting fooled by his overall numbers due to Coors field inflated his numbers, .882 life time OPS there vs .698 on the road.

His career BABIP is .353, so we aren't talking about a guy who was a career .300 BABIP guy and made a huge jump. His .390 BABIP was driven by his major league leading 27.2% Line Drive Rate and his career high 12.3% HR/FB rate. He has always been a good line drive guy but it did take a big jump this past season. Is it an outlier or did he make improvements? That remains to see. Was the HR/FB rate due to him making better contact or due to luck? He won't keep up the .390, but no reason to believe he won't be a .350 BABIP guy and leave him around .270 BA

HometownHero
12-08-2012, 08:39 AM
His BABIP is driven by playing in Denver and its giant park where balls find holes more than anywhere else. He has a .339 road BABIP and that's even after his high 2012.

HometownHero
12-08-2012, 08:47 AM
Defense is an issue as well, -21 Defensive Run Saved for Fowler along with a -12.9 UZR/150 in his career.

drowg14
12-08-2012, 09:12 AM
Matt Holliday could hit on the road just not as off the charts great as he did in Coors, Fowler hasn't shown he can hit on the road one bit. Holliday had road OPS of over .800 and his last year with Colorado was just under .900.

He has a higher OBP with the Cards but his numbers aren't as good as they were with Colorado .319 down to .308 and SLG .552 down to .528 and those numbers are with his good but not Matt Holliday level seasons his first year and a half when he was a .800 OPS player.

My point wasn't that Holliday wasn't good on the road, it's that he wasn't as good on the road as he was at home (where he was a superstar). And once he left Coors, his splits normalized. He became the same hitter on the road as at home.

When one plays all their games in a place like Coors, they have an approach at the plate tailored to hit there. Changing that approach for each road trip, and back for each homestead, can't be the easiest thing in the world. Getting out of Coors should help him become a better ballplayer overall. And the fact that 3 of the cities he plays the most away games in are LA, San Francisco, and San Diego can't help either.

MoneyInTheBank
12-08-2012, 09:38 AM
His BABIP is driven by playing in Denver and its giant park where balls find holes more than anywhere else. He has a .339 road BABIP and that's even after his high 2012.

Everyone likes to quote Fowler's 2012 Home/Road splits, what about 2011, when he hit better away from Coors?

So you are critical of his hitting because he plays in a large park but are also critical of his defense in that same park? I'm not saying he's a top notch fielder, but you can't have it both ways

HometownHero
12-08-2012, 09:56 AM
Everyone likes to quote Fowler's 2012 Home/Road splits, what about 2011, when he hit better away from Coors?

So you are critical of his hitting because he plays in a large park but are also critical of his defense in that same park? I'm not saying he's a top notch fielder, but you can't have it both ways

In his best hitting year on the road he had a .415 SLG, DRS was -10 this year and -21 in his career he could be playing in a park with no walls and he's still not getting balls he should. He's a sub par defender and is a question mark to what his offense is on the road that's something I don't like paying prospects for.

HometownHero
12-08-2012, 10:07 AM
My point wasn't that Holliday wasn't good on the road, it's that he wasn't as good on the road as he was at home (where he was a superstar). And once he left Coors, his splits normalized. He became the same hitter on the road as at home.

When one plays all their games in a place like Coors, they have an approach at the plate tailored to hit there. Changing that approach for each road trip, and back for each homestead, can't be the easiest thing in the world. Getting out of Coors should help him become a better ballplayer overall. And the fact that 3 of the cities he plays the most away games in are LA, San Francisco, and San Diego can't help either.

His splits closed because he wasn't putting up massive numbers at home making the gap so wide. The last two years with the Rockies he hit .308 and .301 and the last two years with the Cards he's hit .285 and .301 on the road and his OPS has dipped every year as a Cardinal despite the added OBP.

If Fowler got traded his home split is going to fall but his road isn't going to magically spike just like Matt's didn't. I can't recall any player who has ever put up big numbers in Denver go somewhere else and improve across the board, even Matt saw his line drop leaving town.

MoneyInTheBank
12-08-2012, 10:52 AM
In his best hitting year on the road he had a .415 SLG, DRS was -10 this year and -21 in his career he could be playing in a park with no walls and he's still not getting balls he should. He's a sub par defender and is a question mark to what his offense is on the road that's something I don't like paying prospects for.

Look at Willy Taveras' defensive stats before, during and after Colorado. He is considered a GREAT defensive CFer. He was dramatically worse in Colorado than Houston or Cincy.

Defensive metrics are measured by dividing the field into zones and seeing how many balls hit in the zone are caught. Bottom line, huge park, less balls any CF can get to. Again, if you are going to knock his hitting for playing in a huge park, you can't knock his fielding for playing in that same park.

By no means do I think he's a great CFer, but he's more than adequate

m21eagle45
12-08-2012, 10:59 AM
Look at Willy Taveras' defensive stats before, during and after Colorado. He is considered a GREAT defensive CFer. He was dramatically worse in Colorado than Houston or Cincy.

Defensive metrics are measured by dividing the field into zones and seeing how many balls hit in the zone are caught. Bottom line, huge park, less balls any CF can get to. Again, if you are going to knock his hitting for playing in a huge park, you can't knock his fielding for playing in that same park.

By no means do I think he's a great CFer, but he's more than adequate

This

texasdave
12-08-2012, 11:28 AM
Look at Willy Taveras' defensive stats before, during and after Colorado. He is considered a GREAT defensive CFer. He was dramatically worse in Colorado than Houston or Cincy.

Defensive metrics are measured by dividing the field into zones and seeing how many balls hit in the zone are caught. Bottom line, huge park, less balls any CF can get to. Again, if you are going to knock his hitting for playing in a huge park, you can't knock his fielding for playing in that same park.

By no means do I think he's a great CFer, but he's more than adequate

The way I understand UZR ratings, this is not entirely true. They do look at the percentage of balls hit into a zone by a player. But that number is then compared with the percentage of balls that all outfielders catch in that particular zone.

A quick example with entirely made up numbers for illustration purposes. Say in GAPB Drew Stubbs catches 85% of the balls in his zone. However, of all the balls hit into that zone, 90% are caught. That makes Stubbs a below average fielder. Next, say Fowler only catches 80% of the balls in his bigger- zone in Colorado. But, at the same time, of all the ball hit into that zone only 75% are caught. That would make Fowler an above-average fielder. By doing it this way the size of each zone is irrelevant. At least that is how I understand the workings of UZR. I could be wrong.

drowg14
12-08-2012, 11:31 AM
His splits closed because he wasn't putting up massive numbers at home making the gap so wide. The last two years with the Rockies he hit .308 and .301 and the last two years with the Cards he's hit .285 and .301 on the road and his OPS has dipped every year as a Cardinal despite the added OBP.

If Fowler got traded his home split is going to fall but his road isn't going to magically spike just like Matt's didn't. I can't recall any player who has ever put up big numbers in Denver go somewhere else and improve across the board, even Matt saw his line drop leaving town.

His numbers did not drop once he left Colorado. His career wRC+ is 139, the last 3 years it has been 149, 154, 141. His career wOBA is .396. The last three years it has been .397, .395, .378. His overall line is just as good since he left town.

And has far as his splits are concerned, they are not closer because of his home stats dropping significantly. His road numbers have improved just as much as his home stats dropped.
His last full year in Colorado (2008) his home/road wRC+ was 152/128. His first full year in St. Louis, 154/145. In 2011, he was actually better on the road, at 150/158.

And as for his slugging dropping last year, I think losing a hitter of Pujols' ilk in the lineup, turning 32, and the general ups and downs of baseball are reasons enough for that decline.

So basically, I feel that my point still stands. Good hitters will change their approach upon leaving Colorado, allowing them to produce just as well as they did while with the Rockies.

Further evidence can be found when you look through the past 12 years of park effect data (http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor). Coors is not the consistent number 1 team in terms of runs, hits, hr, 2b, or 3b. 2012 is the only year where it runs away with most of the categories. The Coors Effect is a very overblown concept imho.

MoneyInTheBank
12-08-2012, 12:02 PM
The way I understand UZR ratings, this is not entirely true. They do look at the percentage of balls hit into a zone by a player. But that number is then compared with the percentage of balls that all outfielders catch in that particular zone.

A quick example with entirely made up numbers for illustration purposes. Say in GAPB Drew Stubbs catches 85% of the balls in his zone. However, of all the balls hit into that zone, 90% are caught. That makes Stubbs a below average fielder. Next, say Fowler only catches 80% of the balls in his bigger- zone in Colorado. But, at the same time, of all the ball hit into that zone only 75% are caught. That would make Fowler an above-average fielder. By doing it this way the size of each zone is irrelevant. At least that is how I understand the workings of UZR. I could be wrong.

You are correct. There is some element of a park factor built into UZR, but even then, the anecdotal evidence shows defensive metrics are historically harsh to Colorado OFers. Even good ones.

WDE
12-08-2012, 12:09 PM
Fowler. And to me it's not close.

Old NDN
12-08-2012, 02:08 PM
What happens to either of them when Hamilton arrives?

Hondo
12-08-2012, 06:41 PM
I bet it is neither and Ellsbury is acquired from Boston for Corcino, but If I was choosing between Fowler and de Aza, I would go with da Aza...

Fowler would turn into Taveras out of Colorado.

dMaus14
12-08-2012, 09:07 PM
What happens to either of them when Hamilton arrives?

The whole point of having them under control for multiple years is what happens when Hamilton arrives and does nothing.

HometownHero
12-09-2012, 03:25 AM
Look at Willy Taveras' defensive stats before, during and after Colorado. He is considered a GREAT defensive CFer. He was dramatically worse in Colorado than Houston or Cincy.

Defensive metrics are measured by dividing the field into zones and seeing how many balls hit in the zone are caught. Bottom line, huge park, less balls any CF can get to. Again, if you are going to knock his hitting for playing in a huge park, you can't knock his fielding for playing in that same park.

By no means do I think he's a great CFer, but he's more than adequate

If you think big parks hurt your defensive rating then how does Austin Jackson stack up with a +47 DRS in 3 years playing in Detroit where its 420 in CF.

The fielding bible uses video on every play and have Dexter a -21 DRS, playing in a park that was 500 feet in the alleys isn't going to make you have a bigger zone and get expected to cover more ground than humanly possible.

I'm to the point where I hope we pull the move off just so we can see what happens, but Fowler will be hated by years end if he comes here and get exposed away from the Denver.

HometownHero
12-09-2012, 04:05 AM
His numbers did not drop once he left Colorado. His career wRC+ is 139, the last 3 years it has been 149, 154, 141. His career wOBA is .396. The last three years it has been .397, .395, .378. His overall line is just as good since he left town.

And has far as his splits are concerned, they are not closer because of his home stats dropping significantly. His road numbers have improved just as much as his home stats dropped.
His last full year in Colorado (2008) his home/road wRC+ was 152/128. His first full year in St. Louis, 154/145. In 2011, he was actually better on the road, at 150/158.

And as for his slugging dropping last year, I think losing a hitter of Pujols' ilk in the lineup, turning 32, and the general ups and downs of baseball are reasons enough for that decline.

So basically, I feel that my point still stands. Good hitters will change their approach upon leaving Colorado, allowing them to produce just as well as they did while with the Rockies.

Further evidence can be found when you look through the past 12 years of park effect data (http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor). Coors is not the consistent number 1 team in terms of runs, hits, hr, 2b, or 3b. 2012 is the only year where it runs away with most of the categories. The Coors Effect is a very overblown concept imho.


Matt wasn't Matt for his first year and a half in the Majors over his first 165 games his line was .286/.342/.464/.806 then he became a beast going off for a line of .328/.397/.575/.972 vs a line of .308/.389/.528/.918 with the Cards inflated by his awesome half season after the trade from Oakland, with out that it falls to .302/.385/517/.903 in his 3 full years in St Louis which is nowhere close to what he was in Denver.

Those advance metrics fail in this augment because they say his 2011 season that he hit .296 was better than the year he lead the league in BA at .340 with the leagues lead in Hits, TB, 2B and RBI and came in 4th in HR and 3rd in runs scored.

MoneyInTheBank
12-09-2012, 09:20 AM
If you think big parks hurt your defensive rating then how does Austin Jackson stack up with a +47 DRS in 3 years playing in Detroit where its 420 in CF.

The fielding bible uses video on every play and have Dexter a -21 DRS, playing in a park that was 500 feet in the alleys isn't going to make you have a bigger zone and get expected to cover more ground than humanly possible.

I'm to the point where I hope we pull the move off just so we can see what happens, but Fowler will be hated by years end if he comes here and get exposed away from the Denver.

Did you read the part about Willy Taveras and how his defensive metrics dropped dramatically in Colorado even though he's widely acknowledged as a great defender? Again, whatever it is in Colorado that makes it SO friendly to singles, doubles and triples hitters that it takes Fowler from crap to .300 hitter, then other teams will get that same singles, doubles and triples. Defensive metrics are measured by a ratio of balls in your zone to balls caught in your zone. That means when a visiting team is in Colorado, their OFers can't get to Fowler's balls that they would get to in every other stadium because Colorado is artificially inflating his stats. Fowler plays 81 games a year in that same stadium that no other CFer can get to Fowler's hits.

I'm not saying he's a silver slugger caliber hitter nor a gold glove caliber fielder. I'm just saying I don't think he's going to be booed out of Cincinnati either. And by being somewhere in the middle, he will be a dramatic improvement over Stubbs

Hometown Crew
12-09-2012, 06:24 PM
Fowler or De Asa? I wouldn't want Fowler at all. There are better options out there. Fowler strike out too much. How about these options:

Craig Gentry(TEX), Eric Young, Jr (COL), Michael Brantley (CLE) or Alejedro DeAsa (CWS)

All strike out about half as much as Stubbs - Brantley about 1/3
All have decent batting average splits
All are arbitration eligible this year or next
All could bat lead-off

If you are into Defensive Wins Against Replacement,
Gentry 1.9
Young 0.5
DeAsa 0.3
Brantley 0.2

Stubbs is 0.5

One of these should be attainable!

HometownHero
12-10-2012, 03:46 AM
Did you read the part about Willy Taveras and how his defensive metrics dropped dramatically in Colorado even though he's widely acknowledged as a great defender? Again, whatever it is in Colorado that makes it SO friendly to singles, doubles and triples hitters that it takes Fowler from crap to .300 hitter, then other teams will get that same singles, doubles and triples. Defensive metrics are measured by a ratio of balls in your zone to balls caught in your zone. That means when a visiting team is in Colorado, their OFers can't get to Fowler's balls that they would get to in every other stadium because Colorado is artificially inflating his stats. Fowler plays 81 games a year in that same stadium that no other CFer can get to Fowler's hits.

I'm not saying he's a silver slugger caliber hitter nor a gold glove caliber fielder. I'm just saying I don't think he's going to be booed out of Cincinnati either. And by being somewhere in the middle, he will be a dramatic improvement over Stubbs

Willy Taveras made tons of errors in his time with the Rockies and that's why his defense stats when down there. He had 11 in 1,700 innings there and 12 in the other 3,300 else where. Just because the park gets bigger doesn't mean your expected zone grows and DRS from the Fielding Bible is video reviewed system and he's a -21 there.

Alpha Zero
12-10-2012, 10:06 AM
I like Fowler a lot and think he's a good fit for this team. Every time I've seen him play, he has looked very smooth defensively to me. I know the numbers say otherwise, but I think he's probably an average defensive CF. His on base skills are solid, and I think he has just enough power that his bat could be passable in LF once Hamilton is ready, especially if the Reds can get slightly above average power production out of Frazier at 3B. I'm just really excited about the prospects of having both Hamilton and Fowler switch hitting and filling up the bags in front of Votto.

nheath22
12-10-2012, 02:56 PM
Fowler or De Asa? I wouldn't want Fowler at all. There are better options out there. Fowler strike out too much. How about these options:

Craig Gentry(TEX), Eric Young, Jr (COL), Michael Brantley (CLE) or Alejedro DeAsa (CWS)

All strike out about half as much as Stubbs - Brantley about 1/3
All have decent batting average splits
All are arbitration eligible this year or next
All could bat lead-off

If you are into Defensive Wins Against Replacement,
Gentry 1.9
Young 0.5
DeAsa 0.3
Brantley 0.2

Stubbs is 0.5

One of these should be attainable!

:thumbup: I agree these are some great options and all could be attainable. I personally think Brantley would be the perfect fit for our lead off role / CF if the Indians would let him go at a reasonable price. From rumors I have heard and read about, it seems like the Indians have been shopping Shin Shoo Choo around more than Brantley. While he is only a career .275 hitter, he adds another Lefty to our lineup and hits .300 against RHP.

He is under contract this year at league minimum and arbitration eligible through 2016. I think he could be the best option to improve our lineup depending on what we would have to spend to get him.

Pony Boy
12-10-2012, 03:28 PM
I bet it is neither and Ellsbury is acquired from Boston for Corcino, but If I was choosing between Fowler and de Aza, I would go with da Aza...


I agree. Walt is slow playing the Red Sox.

The Winter meetings were not the right time to strike a deal for Ellsbury. It is better that Walt waits for the price to come down. I think there is a limited trade market for a 1 year rental of Ellsbury. There arent many contending teams that desperately need a CF. The Phillies and Nats were a fit until the Revere and Span deals. Now I'm not sure who the Reds are bidding against? The deal should be for Corcino and little else. That is a fair price.

Sir Luke
12-14-2012, 09:49 AM
Fowler or de Aza

Matt Kemp