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westofyou
12-10-2012, 02:18 PM
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/files/2012/12/rojos-225x300.jpg



The Reds are unveiling an alternate jersey starting in 2013. The Red jersey will have ‘Los Rojos’ emblazoned on the front, in white scripted letters. Los Rojos is Spanish for “Reds.”


http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2012/12/08/los-rojos-to-be-alternate-jersey-for-13/

RANDY IN INDY
12-10-2012, 02:34 PM
Ughh

mdccclxix
12-10-2012, 02:34 PM
I don't know Spanish, but would Rojos work?

Reds/Flyers Fan
12-10-2012, 02:36 PM
1. The Hispanic population in Greater Cincinnati continues to grow at a steady rate.

2. The Reds are marketing to this demographic.

3. I solidly approve this.

mattfeet
12-10-2012, 02:41 PM
1. The Hispanic population in Greater Cincinnati continues to grow at a steady rate.

2. The Reds are marketing to this demographic.

3. I solidly approve this.

:beerme:

Same here. I have absolutely no problem with this. Pretty cool, actually.

-Matt

Tony Cloninger
12-10-2012, 02:42 PM
I don't know Spanish, but would Rojos work?

Rojo does mean Red in Spanish.

So yes it does work. :D

Always Red
12-10-2012, 02:44 PM
1. The Hispanic population in Greater Cincinnati continues to grow at a steady rate.

2. The Reds are marketing to this demographic.

3. I solidly approve this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati


At the 2010 Census, there were 296,945 people residing in Cincinnati, a decrease of 10.4% since 2000. At the 2010 Census, 48.1% of the population was White, 44.6% African American, 0.2% Native American, 1.80% Asian, 0.01% Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander, 0.2% from some other race, and 2.2% of two or more races. 2.08% of Cincinnati's population was Hispanic and Latino or any race.

redsmetz
12-10-2012, 02:58 PM
Ughh

Randy, I'm curious why you consider it an "ugh" move. Clearly uniforms are a marketing tool, IMO, and looking for a wider spectrum of fans to draw in from not just Cincinnati , but the larger region, not to mention throughout the country and beyond. With both Johnny Cueto and Aroldis Chapman as premier pitchers for the club and other Latin players, not to mention a plethora of up and coming prospects from throughout Latin America, I think it makes smart business sense. I say this as an Anglo too. I've loved the Hispanic Heritage day the club has had the last couple of seasons too.

Vottomatic
12-10-2012, 02:59 PM
Geez. This is an English speaking country.

Please learn to read and speak the native language. This isn't Mexico.

Rojo
12-10-2012, 03:03 PM
Please learn to read and speak the native language.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Langs_N.Amer.png

So who's getting me this jersey?

westofyou
12-10-2012, 03:05 PM
Geez. This is an English speaking country.

Please learn to read and speak the native language. This isn't Mexico.

Good to see Manifest Destiny alive and well, now it is our turn

Chip R
12-10-2012, 03:09 PM
I still miss Javy. :(

mdccclxix
12-10-2012, 03:09 PM
Rojo does mean Red in Spanish.

So yes it does work. :D

I mean, does the "Los" need to be on there, as I think english jersey's say "Reds" not "The Reds". I was wondering if just "Rojos" would read properly.

crazybob60
12-10-2012, 03:10 PM
I still miss Javy. :(

Don't forget Felipe as well. He was an All Star

mdccclxix
12-10-2012, 03:11 PM
Barry Larkin approves of this move, I'm sure.

traderumor
12-10-2012, 03:17 PM
Hey, at least we aren't changing the team name for the entire year so we don't sound like Commie Pinko sympathizers.

oneupper
12-10-2012, 03:17 PM
I mean, does the "Los" need to be on there, as I think english jersey's say "Reds" not "The Reds". I was wondering if just "Rojos" would read properly.

"Rojos" reads fine in Spanish. The "Los" is used pretty much as the "The" is in English.

When saying something about the team, you will use "Los", as in "Los Rojos firmaron un contrato con..." (The Reds signed a contract with...). When quoting a score, it will be omitted. "Rojos 12, Cachorros 0".

I like "Rojos" better.

Steve4192
12-10-2012, 03:27 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati

You realize that is just the municipality of Cincinnati, not the Greater Cincinnati area. The municipality probably represents less than 5% of Reds fans. They draw almost exclusively from the suburbs and surrounding areas. I don't know about where you live, but where I live Hispanics account for one hell of a lot more than 2% of the population.

Always Red
12-10-2012, 03:27 PM
So does Adolfo Luque

mdccclxix
12-10-2012, 03:31 PM
"Rojos" reads fine in Spanish. The "Los" is used pretty much as the "The" is in English.

When saying something about the team, you will use "Los", as in "Los Rojos firmaron un contrato con..." (The Reds signed a contract with...). When quoting a score, it will be omitted. "Rojos 12, Cachorros 0".

I like "Rojos" better.

Ahh, see that's a mistake then. I like "Rojos" better too.

westofyou
12-10-2012, 03:33 PM
1908 - The Cincinnati Reds baseball team plays in a 4-game tournament in Cuba, and becomes the first major league team to travel to the island. Cuban José Méndez pitches 3 consecutive shutouts against the Reds.

1911 The Cincinnati Reds buy Rafael Almeida and Armando Marsans, first Cubans since Esteban Bellan who played in the 1870's

Scrap Irony
12-10-2012, 03:40 PM
I like it.

If nothing else, perhaps a couple young latinos love the uniform and, as a result, sign free agent contracts with the Reds instead of Los Dodgers or Los Gigantes.

redsmetz
12-10-2012, 03:42 PM
Geez. This is an English speaking country.

Please learn to read and speak the native language. This isn't Mexico.

Is this a serious response? You are aware that there are parts of the United States where Spanish is the first language of many people who ancestors have been here for centuries before my own German and/or Irish ancestors arrived on these shores?

M2
12-10-2012, 03:43 PM
It's a cool looking jersey. I imagine it will be a popular item even with us folks who speak Merkan. Hopefully this inspires Les Rouges and Die Roten jerseys too.

westofyou
12-10-2012, 03:45 PM
You realize that is just the municipality of Cincinnati, not the Greater Cincinnati area. The municipality probably represents less than 5% of Reds fans. They draw almost exclusively from the suburbs and surrounding areas. I don't know about where you live, but where I live Hispanics account for one hell of a lot more than 2% of the population.



While the U.S. Census shows a 10 percent population drop in the city from both black and white households, the Hispanic community has doubled from 4,301 in 2000 to 8,504 in 2010.

Read more: http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/local_news/census-says-cincinnati's-hispanic-population-has-doubled#ixzz2EgTOG64T

Always Red
12-10-2012, 03:48 PM
You realize that is just the municipality of Cincinnati, not the Greater Cincinnati area. The municipality probably represents less than 5% of Reds fans. They draw almost exclusively from the suburbs and surrounding areas. I don't know about where you live, but where I live Hispanics account for one hell of a lot more than 2% of the population.

Yes, I realize those numbers are for the city of Cincinnati alone.

When you include the entire 15 county Greater Cincinnati area, it's 2.6% per the numbers at the Hispanic Chamber Cincinnati, USA. And rising.

So, not really a hell of a lot more, and I live and work all over town- west, east and north- but not NKY, and have not noticed any large increase.

http://www.hispanicchambercincinnati.com/documents/Demographics-BusinessCensusofHispanicsintheTRiStatesArea_000.pd f

I'm just wondering why the Reds chose to do this. They've had great Latino players for years, and have always been the Reds.

There's no question the Hispanic population in the US is booming; maybe it's in response to that.

westofyou
12-10-2012, 03:51 PM
Yes, I realize those numbers are for the city of Cincinnati alone.

When you include the entire 15 county Greater Cincinnati area, it's 2.6% per the numbers at the Hispanic Chamber Cincinnati, USA. And rising.

So, not really a hell of a lot more, and I live and work all over town- west, east and north- but not NKY, and have not noticed any large increase.

http://www.hispanicchambercincinnati.com/documents/Demographics-BusinessCensusofHispanicsintheTRiStatesArea_000.pd f

I'm just wondering why the Reds chose to do this. They've had great Latino players for years, and have always been the Reds.

There's no question the Hispanic population in the US is booming; maybe it's in response to that.


Jersey sales I suppose, it's a market grab move for sure... even if it upsets a few Bubba's

RedEye
12-10-2012, 03:54 PM
Geez. This is an English speaking country.

Please learn to read and speak the native language. This isn't Mexico.

Sheesh. I have to say I'm surprised at this sort of myopia on this board. English may be our "official" language, but the US is multicultural and multilingual. IMO it does no harm to the Reds brand to market it to another population of current or potential fans who want to both support the team and express their love for another language. For god's sake, it's a big tent!

Chip R
12-10-2012, 03:55 PM
Don't forget Felipe as well. He was an All Star

Nope. Just Javy. :luvu:

_Sir_Charles_
12-10-2012, 04:02 PM
Geez. This is an English speaking country.

Please learn to read and speak the native language. This isn't Mexico.

Don't say that in Texas. I agree with you, but if you don't read/speak Spanish down here you're at a big disadvantage.

Tadasimha
12-10-2012, 04:06 PM
It's a cool looking jersey. I imagine it will be a popular item even with us folks who speak Merkan. Hopefully this inspires Les Rouges and Die Roten jerseys too.

How about one in kanji? Not sure how to make it plural but I did find this one for "red"

Always Red
12-10-2012, 04:11 PM
How about one in kanji? Not sure how to make it plural but I did find this one for "red"

How about Mandarin?


The top ten languages of the world are as follows (in order of first-speaking population):

Chinese Mandarin 13.69%
Spanish 5.05%
English 4.84%
Hindi 2.82%
Portuguese 2.77%
Bengali 2.68%
Russian 2.27%
Japanese 1.99%
German 1.49%
Chinese Wu 1.21%

Tadasimha
12-10-2012, 04:11 PM
Geez. This is an English speaking country.

Please learn to read and speak the native language. This isn't Mexico.

Has has been pointed out already, Spanish was spoken on the continent before English and while English did become the predominant language spoken here, it has never been the exclusive language spoken here. Spanish, French, German as well as English have been spoken here for centuries, and for well over 100 years there have been Chinese, Japanese, Greek, Irish, Italian etc speakers as well.

RichRed
12-10-2012, 04:11 PM
I think it looks pretty bueno.

_Sir_Charles_
12-10-2012, 04:13 PM
Si. Es muy bueno.

Caveat Emperor
12-10-2012, 04:27 PM
Someone tweeted a picture of this from Redsfest.

I haven't bought a Reds jersey in years, but I absolutely plan to own a "Los Rojos" jersey by the start of the season.

reds1869
12-10-2012, 04:30 PM
I teach at a school with a large Spanish-speaking population. The kids and their families are quite excited by the new jersey.

M2
12-10-2012, 04:32 PM
How about one in kanji?

Absolutely. Let's get some Mandarin in there too. Heck, in the name of having a little bit of fun, they ought to do one in Cyrillic.


I'm just wondering why the Reds chose to do this. They've had great Latino players for years, and have always been the Reds.

There's no question the Hispanic population in the US is booming; maybe it's in response to that.

The apparel market is international. And regardless of where it's at right now, the regional percentage of folks with Hispanic roots is only going to grow in the next decade.

Plus, why not? Sports is supposed to be a pleasant diversion. Throwback jerseys, jerseys from the future, foreign language jerseys, neckties, footie pajamas, ladies' intimates -it's all good.

medford
12-10-2012, 04:40 PM
Los Rojos...I hate

Rojos (just plain Rojos)...I love.

I wish they'd drop the "los" part, unless they're going to start putting "the Reds" on the front of our jersey.

Could be worse, I think the Lakers go with "Los Lakers" while the bulls and heat go w/ "los Bulls" and "los Heat".

I'm not sure what the spanish word for "laker" is, but having a red and black jersey that just said "Toros" would be cool. I suppose one that said "Caliente" (is that the right word, been a long time) wouldn't be so cool.

RANDY IN INDY
12-10-2012, 04:44 PM
Randy, I'm curious why you consider it an "ugh" move. Clearly uniforms are a marketing tool, IMO, and looking for a wider spectrum of fans to draw in from not just Cincinnati , but the larger region, not to mention throughout the country and beyond. With both Johnny Cueto and Aroldis Chapman as premier pitchers for the club and other Latin players, not to mention a plethora of up and coming prospects from throughout Latin America, I think it makes smart business sense. I say this as an Anglo too. I've loved the Hispanic Heritage day the club has had the last couple of seasons too.

It's an ugly jersey, just like the BP jersey, and unnecessary in my opinion. I certainly won't be spending my money on one.

REDREAD
12-10-2012, 04:45 PM
At the 2010 Census, there were 296,945 people residing in Cincinnati, a decrease of 10.4% since 2000. At the 2010 Census, 48.1% of the population was White, 44.6% African American, 0.2% Native American, 1.80% Asian, 0.01% Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander, 0.2% from some other race, and 2.2% of two or more races. 2.08% of Cincinnati's population was Hispanic and Latino or any race.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Swahili, Chineese, Korean, and Hindi uniforms too.

Always Red
12-10-2012, 04:49 PM
Los Rojos...I hate

Rojos (just plain Rojos)...I love.

I wish they'd drop the "los" part, unless they're going to start putting "the Reds" on the front of our jersey.

Could be worse, I think the Lakers go with "Los Lakers" while the bulls and heat go w/ "los Bulls" and "los Heat".

I'm not sure what the spanish word for "laker" is, but having a red and black jersey that just said "Toros" would be cool. I suppose one that said "Caliente" (is that the right word, been a long time) wouldn't be so cool.

http://news.sportslogos.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Screen-shot-2012-08-24-at-13.30.03--590x391.png

Scrap Irony
12-10-2012, 05:00 PM
I'd buy a der roten jersey for sure.

Especially if you added an umlaut over the "o" to make it look like a surprise.

Big Klu
12-10-2012, 05:05 PM
Would it be "Der Roten", "Die Roten", or "Das Roten"?

camisadelgolf
12-10-2012, 05:09 PM
Would it be "Der Roten", "Die Roten", or "Das Roten"?
Die Roten. But English is being integrated into German culture so quickly that they must just go with Die Reds.

camisadelgolf
12-10-2012, 05:12 PM
Geez. This is an English speaking country.

Please learn to read and speak the native language. This isn't Mexico.
The U.S.A. doesn't have an official language. And learning Spanish doesn't require you to forget English. Getting a little culture is good for everybody.

Reds Fanatic
12-10-2012, 05:18 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Rojos

Apparently Los Rojos is the name of drug cartel in Mexico.

Wonderful Monds
12-10-2012, 05:24 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Rojos

Apparently Los Rojos is the name of drug cartel in Mexico.

Looks like their rival down there is the Mets for some reason?

Patrick Bateman
12-10-2012, 05:28 PM
It's an ugly jersey, just like the BP jersey, and unnecessary in my opinion. I certainly won't be spending my money on one.

It's also not being marketed to you, and likely going to only be used in very rare occurrences. Not like they are lining these bad boys up for the playoffs.

Can't really see how there could be much more pushback on the Reds trying to expand their fan base.

RANDY IN INDY
12-10-2012, 05:37 PM
It's also not being marketed to you, and likely going to only be used in very rare occurrences. Not like they are lining these bad boys up for the playoffs.

Can't really see how there could be much more pushback on the Reds trying to expand their fan base.

I'm a fan, go to games, and entitled to my opinion. It may not agree with yours or the majority, but I'm entitled to it, nonetheless. .

Reds/Flyers Fan
12-10-2012, 05:38 PM
Geez. This is an English speaking country.

Please learn to read and speak the native language. This isn't Mexico.

How ridiculous. :laugh:

The "native language" of Cincinnati and every other inch of land in North America certainly isn't English.

westofyou
12-10-2012, 05:40 PM
How ridiculous. :laugh:

The "native language" of Cincinnati and every other inch of this country certainly isn't English.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/ourhistory/2012/06/06/anti-german-hysteria-swept-cincinnati-in-1917/



With America’s entry into the Great War 95 years ago this month, a sudden and ferocious hatred of all things German swept the country.

Cincinnati was not immune despite the fact that more than half of its citizens were German immigrants or removed from the Vaterland by no more than one or two generations. Many aspects of anti-German hysteria here have been well-documented:

More than a dozen streets with German names were changed: Bremen in Over-the-Rhine became Republic and Hamburg at the top of OTR was changed to Stonewall; German and Berlin streets in the West End became English and Woodward, respectively.

German language books were removed from local libraries. A months-long controversy erupted as to whether the German language should be dropped from the curriculum of Cincinnati public schools, and in February 1918, the school board voted to remove it from elementary schools. It pretty much died a natural death in area high schools as the war continued and fewer and fewer students elected to take it.

Textbooks presenting positive portrayals of Germany or German life were censored at local universities.

In an attempt to prove their patriotism, a number of German families anglicized their names: Reiss became Rice, Hüll changed to Hill, Schmidt to Smith, etc.

Some recorded actions to eradicate all-things German were laughable: The reported removal of pretzels from bar counters and the renaming of sauerkraut to liberty slaw on local restaurant menus

Joseph
12-10-2012, 05:41 PM
Not a fan, seems kind of pointless to me, but hey whatever gets another situational lefty in the pen I'm all for.

mdccclxix
12-10-2012, 05:42 PM
Die Roten. But English is being integrated into German culture so quickly that they must just go with Die Reds.

LOL

Patrick Bateman
12-10-2012, 05:43 PM
I'm a fan, go to games, and entitled to my opinion. It may not agree with yours or the majority, but I'm entitled to it, nonetheless. .

I'm not saying you aren't entiteled as much as I am suggesting that it might not be so bad to be able to expand horizons to intrigue a larger group of people (and perhaps be more culturally diverse), especially on an issue that so minimally would effect a fan for what, 1 out of 162 games? The larger positive impact on a larger group of fans certainly seems worthwhile compared to a smaller, negative impact on a smaller group of more loyal fans... if that makes sense.

Crumbley
12-10-2012, 05:50 PM
Cool idea, ugly jersey.

Crosley68
12-10-2012, 07:29 PM
Geez. This is an English speaking country.

Please learn to read and speak the native language. This isn't Mexico.

The "Native" language of the Cincinnati area is most likely Shawnee. Let me know when you have learned it and I will change my opinion of this comment.

KittyDuran
12-10-2012, 07:35 PM
I have no problem with it... just another jersey. Much better looking than those ugly green jerseys for St. Patrick's Day.

KittyDuran
12-10-2012, 07:36 PM
The "Native" language of the Cincinnati area is most likely Shawnee. Let me know when you have learned it and I will change my opinion of this comment.I'd say it's Miami, but you're entitled to your opinion... ;)

KittyDuran
12-10-2012, 07:45 PM
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/ourhistory/2012/06/06/anti-german-hysteria-swept-cincinnati-in-1917/I believe this was round 2 of 3 of anti-German hysteria: After reading "Team of Rivals" the first looks during the 2 decades before the Civil War - there was even a political party "The Know-Nothing Party" (American Party) who were primarily anti-Irish, anti-Catholic, and anti-German. Round 3 was during WWII (and didn't Cincinnati rename OTR and other streets again?).

RedEye
12-10-2012, 07:47 PM
I'm a fan, go to games, and entitled to my opinion. It may not agree with yours or the majority, but I'm entitled to it, nonetheless. .

What, pray tell, is that opinion? That sports franchises should only market to their English-speaking clients? Whatever your opinion about immigrant populations in America, that's just bad business.

KittyDuran
12-10-2012, 07:53 PM
Looks like Milwaukee's going full speed ahead... :D How long have they been using the Cerveceros uniforms?
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/brewers-announce-2013-bobblehead-giveaways-da7k4tg-179034041.html


Carlos Gomez, June 9 vs. Philadelphia. Raise your hand if you thought you'd ever see a Gomez bobblehead. He'll be featured in a Cerveceros uniform (Spanish for Brewers) on the team's annual Cerveceros Day.

Polish Sausage, June 23 vs. Atlanta. As the Brewers host Polish Heritage Day, one of the Famous Racing Sausages gets his due wearing a "Piwowarzy" jersey. Yes, that's the Polish translation for Brewers.


[Los Rojos...I hate

Rojos (just plain Rojos)...I love.
Here, here... is there some way to tell the team to drop the "Los"? I guess I also don't like the "Los" because I'm an old Reds fan - the old rivalry still burns...

Always Red
12-10-2012, 08:06 PM
That sports franchises should only market to their English-speaking clients? Whatever your opinion about immigrant populations in America, that's just bad business.

Well, I think we all realize, at this point in this conversation, that all of us, English speakers included, are immigrants to this country, unless you are Native American (hey, I'm 1/32 Cherokee! :D). And if you do enough history, even the native Americans probably came over the Bering Bridge or up from Central and South America.

And no one was playing baseball at that time. :(

KittyDuran
12-10-2012, 08:13 PM
(hey, I'm 1/32 Cherokee!).Me too! As my Dad likes to say "Get a nosebleed and we're out of the tribe..." :D

oneupper
12-10-2012, 08:23 PM
Looks like Milwaukee's going full speed ahead... :D How long have they been using the Cerveceros uniforms?
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/brewers-announce-2013-bobblehead-giveaways-da7k4tg-179034041.html



Here, here... is there some way to tell the team to drop the "Los"? I guess I also don't like the "Los" because I'm an old Reds fan - the old rivalry still burns...

Let's do it. The "Los" is for teams that don't have a translation, like "Los Mets" and "Los Dodgers". But look at jerseys from the Winter Leagues. No "Los" anywhere. Its "Tigres", "Leones", "Tiburones", "Aguilas", "Venados", "Cangrejeros", to name a few.


We can call it the "Lose the Los" petition.

nate
12-10-2012, 08:28 PM
How about one in kanji? Not sure how to make it plural but I did find this one for "red"

It would probably just be a loanword:

レ-ヅス

Literally: "Re-dusu" (they don't have "d" or "s" sounds without vowels.) Not as cool-looking as your aka (red) kanji.

Plural is weird in Japanese too...I'm not sure there is a plural for aka in Japanese.

savafan
12-10-2012, 08:30 PM
I may be in the minority, but I actually like the look of the jerseys.

vaticanplum
12-10-2012, 08:37 PM
Why in the world would anyone assume that this is a marketing tool only to the local fanbase? The Reds have a strong, strong tradition of star players with Spanish-speaking roots -- Concepcion, Rijo, etc. Larkin is coaching in the DR and a whole new generation of players will come to know him. It's always been my understanding that the Reds have one of the largest MLB fanbases in Latin America.

One of the most exciting pitchers in baseball is on our team and he is possibly becoming a starter this year. Last I heard he still speaks Spanish almost exclusively. For the Reds NOT to take advantage of the people in Cuba and all over Latin America who no doubt revere him would be completely foolish. I'm frankly surprised they haven't done it before this. I see Spanish-language jerseys for other MLB teams all the time, including the Pirates (Piratas!) Mostly because people the world over still have a fair amount of respect for that Clemente guy.

Spanish-speaking players are a huge part of MLB; their Spanish-speaking fans are a huge part of the fanbase. Latin American culture is both historically and presently intrinsic to the entire game. To be dismissive of this jersey based on some nationalistic language thing is not only ridiculous, it is ignorant of the makeup of the sport itself.

RedEye
12-10-2012, 08:52 PM
Well, I think we all realize, at this point in this conversation, that all of us, English speakers included, are immigrants to this country, unless you are Native American (hey, I'm 1/32 Cherokee! :D). And if you do enough history, even the native Americans probably came over the Bering Bridge or up from Central and South America.

And no one was playing baseball at that time. :(

Exactly. Couldn't agree more. That's why the "Learn to speak English or go home" argument always raises my hackles. I'm just curious whether or not that's the hard-lined position of the poster I was quoting in my post.

edabbs44
12-10-2012, 08:58 PM
I teach at a school with a large Spanish-speaking population. The kids and their families are quite excited by the new jersey.

Who doesn't love NJ?

Oh wait...

cinreds21
12-10-2012, 09:02 PM
Los Rojos...I hate

Rojos (just plain Rojos)...I love.

I wish they'd drop the "los" part, unless they're going to start putting "the Reds" on the front of our jersey.

Could be worse, I think the Lakers go with "Los Lakers" while the bulls and heat go w/ "los Bulls" and "los Heat".

I'm not sure what the spanish word for "laker" is, but having a red and black jersey that just said "Toros" would be cool. I suppose one that said "Caliente" (is that the right word, been a long time) wouldn't be so cool.

El Heat, papi.

RANDY IN INDY
12-10-2012, 09:40 PM
What, pray tell, is that opinion? That sports franchises should only market to their English-speaking clients? Whatever your opinion about immigrant populations in America, that's just bad business.

Exactly what I stated earlier, if you would care to read. The jersey is ugly and unnecessary in my opinion. Do they need a jersey so every group can feel good Where's it end???? It's baseball. Wear your uniform and play the game.

Vottomatic
12-10-2012, 09:49 PM
Exactly what I stated earlier, if you would care to read. The jersey is ugly and unnecessary in my opinion. Do they need a jersey so every group can feel good Where's it end???? It's baseball. Wear your uniform and play the game.

I hear there's been a protest, and now they'll be wearing German, French, Swedish, Russian, Chinese, Japanese..........etc........language appropriate uniforms here and there this season.

westofyou
12-10-2012, 09:50 PM
Exactly what I stated earlier, if you would care to read. The jersey is ugly and unnecessary in my opinion. Do they need a jersey so every group can feel good Where's it end???? It's baseball. Wear your uniform and play the game.


Well it's all about the Jackson's, (and Franklin's and Hamilton's) we know that.

westofyou
12-10-2012, 09:51 PM
I hear there's been a protest, and now they'll be wearing German, French, Swedish, Russian, Chinese, Japanese..........etc........language appropriate uniforms here and there this season.

http://www.heehaw.com/images/logo.png

Hap
12-10-2012, 09:53 PM
<sarcasm> Next they need one that appeals to rural white people that says The Rey-edds. </sarcasm>

RANDY IN INDY
12-10-2012, 09:56 PM
<sarcasm> Next they need one that appeals to rural white people that says The Rey-edds. </sarcasm>

:lol::beerme:

Can't go wrong making fun of white folks.

marcshoe
12-10-2012, 09:58 PM
I think they've finally found a way to make the red jerseys fun.

Vottomatic
12-10-2012, 09:58 PM
<sarcasm> Next they need one that appeals to rural white people that says The Rey-edds. </sarcasm>

They're also going to appeal to fans that can't read by simply wearing uniforms that are red with no numbers or letters on them.

M2
12-10-2012, 10:04 PM
Exactly what I stated earlier, if you would care to read. The jersey is ugly and unnecessary in my opinion. Do they need a jersey so every group can feel good Where's it end???? It's baseball. Wear your uniform and play the game.

It's got nothing to do with making various groups feel good. Vintage jerseys aren't sold to make old people feel good. Bobbleheads aren't sold to make people with enormous craniums feel good. They're sold because people want to buy them. That's why the Reds are selling Rojos shirts. And it never ends. It's merchandising.

FWIW, I'm with savafan, I like the shirt. It's basically the BP jersey, which I prefer to the actual jersey.

M2
12-10-2012, 10:18 PM
I hear there's been a protest, and now they'll be wearing German, French, Swedish, Russian, Chinese, Japanese..........etc........language appropriate uniforms here and there this season.

Probably won't be long until you'll be able to custom order team jerseys in a pile of different languages.

"Now batting for Die Roten, number fünf, Johan Werkbank!"

RANDY IN INDY
12-10-2012, 10:33 PM
It's got nothing to do with making various groups feel good. Vintage jerseys aren't sold to make old people feel good. Bobbleheads aren't sold to make people with enormous craniums feel good. They're sold because people want to buy them. That's why the Reds are selling Rojos shirts. And it never ends. It's merchandising.

FWIW, I'm with savafan, I like the shirt. It's basically the BP jersey, which I prefer to the actual jersey.

And as I stated, I don't like them. I don't need anyone talking down to me telling me what the scoop is. Anyone with a warm body knows the Reds are trying to sell overpriced ugly jerseys, but some are always eager to make it into some politically correct issue and try and label you as some kind of bigot because you don't like the jersey or feel it's unnecessary. They've already got three jerseys and a BP Jersey. At some point it stops being a baseball uniform and begins to be the outfit for every occasion. I'm a fan of classic baseball uniforms. I don't like all the gimmicks. Simple as that, and only my opinion.

M2
12-10-2012, 10:37 PM
One thing is for sure, at some point some African-American rapper is going to appear in a video wearing a Los Rojos shirt. I like to think that, if she were still alive, viewing it would cause Marge Schott's head to explode ... and that thought makes me happy.

RANDY IN INDY
12-10-2012, 10:52 PM
Whatever turns you on.

M2
12-10-2012, 10:56 PM
Anyone with a warm body knows the Reds are trying to sell overpriced ugly jerseys, but some are always eager to make it into some politically correct issue and try and label you as some kind of bigot because you don't like the jersey or feel it's unnecessary.

It's not some politically correct issue. It's crass commercialism, which like it or not pays the bills for the team we follow. Baseball is trying to court an international audience and it's losing ground in Central America to soccer. There's fans all over the planet. A decent number are liable to be interested in Rojos shirts. If it's truly unnecessary then no one will buy it. However I doubt that will be an issue.

If it's any comfort, you're not being a bigot, just stodgy.

Unassisted
12-10-2012, 10:58 PM
From my vantage point here in the home of Los Spurs, the move makes perfect sense.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sportsprose/los-spurs.jpg

RANDY IN INDY
12-10-2012, 11:03 PM
It's not some politically correct issue. It's crass commercialism, which like it or not pays the bills for the team we follow. Baseball is trying to court an international audience and it's losing ground in Central America to soccer. There's fans all over the planet. A decent number are liable to be interested in Rojos shirts. If it's truly unnecessary then no one will buy it. However I doubt that will be an issue.

If it's any comfort, you're not being a bigot, just stodgy.

I know I'm not a bigot. And I'm old enough now to be stodgy.

RedEye
12-10-2012, 11:13 PM
Exactly what I stated earlier, if you would care to read. The jersey is ugly and unnecessary in my opinion. Do they need a jersey so every group can feel good Where's it end???? It's baseball. Wear your uniform and play the game.

I did read, actually, and didn't see you express it in so many words.

If you think it's just "ugly" aesthetically, as in the spacing of the letters or the trim or the script or whatever, well, I can't really argue that. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and what not.

But if you think it is "unnecessary", well I suppose that's an opinion, though I don't think a very defensible one. Since when did one jersey reading "Los Rojos" turn into a jersey so every group can feel good?

But more importantly -- do you not think players like Chapman and Cueto aren't tickled to see this jersey? Do you not think their fans in other countries (or this country) aren't as well? What about people who move here and don't speak the language? Do those people not matter?

I also have to object to your "play the game" comment. Yes, it most definitely is baseball. That's my point. It's a sport played all around the world by people who speak all different languages (See: The World Baseball Classic). Baseball is smart to take advantage of that. And they are smart to realize that no one group or language has a monopoly on their sport.

RedEye
12-10-2012, 11:17 PM
I hear there's been a protest, and now they'll be wearing German, French, Swedish, Russian, Chinese, Japanese..........etc........language appropriate uniforms here and there this season.

Protest of what? I don't get it. Oh... and why would this be a bad thing? I the Reds were a recognizable global brand, wouldn't it be in their interest to produce this kind of thing?

RedEye
12-10-2012, 11:18 PM
It's not some politically correct issue. It's crass commercialism

Actually, it's both.

kaldaniels
12-10-2012, 11:19 PM
I'm stunned at the outrage. MLB has hundreds of moneygrabs each year, and the one people get upset about is one that honors the Latino influence in the game???

I think it is a great idea.

RedEye
12-10-2012, 11:21 PM
I know I'm not a bigot. And I'm old enough now to be stodgy.

It's a slippery slope between stodginess and bigotry.

Look, I just don't see the problem in letting other folks have their fun. In what way in the world does a Los Rojos shirt affect you adversely? Do you fee like it cheapens your status as a fan?

RedEye
12-10-2012, 11:22 PM
I don't like all the gimmicks. Simple as that, and only my opinion.

One man's gimmick is another man's identity.

RANDY IN INDY
12-10-2012, 11:25 PM
I did read, actually, and didn't see you express it in so many words.

If you think it's just "ugly" aesthetically, as in the spacing of the letters or the trim or the script or whatever, well, I can't really argue that. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and what not.

But if you think it is "unnecessary", well I suppose that's an opinion, though I don't think a very defensible one. Since when did one jersey reading "Los Rojos" turn into a jersey so every group can feel good?

But more importantly -- do you not think players like Chapman and Cueto aren't tickled to see this jersey? Do you not think their fans in other countries (or this country) aren't as well? What about people who move here and don't speak the language? Do those people not matter?

I also have to object to your "play the game" comment. Yes, it most definitely is baseball. That's my point. It's a sport played all around the world by people who speak all different languages (See: The World Baseball Classic). Baseball is smart to take advantage of that. And they are smart to realize that no one group or language has a monopoly on their sport.

Well if you read, you would have seen it plainly stated in post #40 and I honestly don't feel the need to defend my opinion with you. Object all you want.

RedEye
12-10-2012, 11:26 PM
Well if you read, you would have seen it plainly stated in post #40 and I honestly don't feel the need to defend my opinion with you. Object all you want.

Okay, I suppose you have the right to stick your fingers in your ears, too. In any case, you've already lost the argument. Los Rojos shirts are going on sale, after all.

Sheesh.

RedEye
12-10-2012, 11:28 PM
They're also going to appeal to fans that can't read by simply wearing uniforms that are red with no numbers or letters on them.

Hyperbole and nothing more.

RANDY IN INDY
12-10-2012, 11:31 PM
It's a slippery slope between stodginess and bigotry.

Look, I just don't see the problem in letting other folks have their fun. In what way in the world does a Los Rojos shirt affect you adversely? Do you fee like it cheapens your status as a fan?

A perfect example of what I was talking about. You want to make me out to be a bigot. I've explained 3 times why I don't like the jersey. If that makes me a bigot in your world, that says more about you than it does me. There is nothing bigoted about why I don't like the jersey and feel it is unnecessary.

thatcoolguy_22
12-10-2012, 11:34 PM
As a guy who just likes Reds gear, I'm a fan. I usually pick up a couple new jersies every year anyways. A Cueto Rojos will probably be my next. Good job reds marketing team.


http://soshable.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg

RANDY IN INDY
12-10-2012, 11:35 PM
Okay, I suppose you have the right to stick your fingers in your ears, too. In any case, you've already lost the argument. Los Rojos shirts are going on sale, after all.

Sheesh.

I've lost nothing. I'm entitled to an opinion. Just because they wear it doesn't mean I have to like it and I certainly won't waste any money on it.

Chip R
12-10-2012, 11:36 PM
Die Roten. But English is being integrated into German culture so quickly that they must just go with Die Reds.

No one who speaks German can be an evil man.


http://www.nohomers.net/SBA/pictures/9F22_43.jpg

RedEye
12-10-2012, 11:38 PM
A perfect example of what I was talking about. You want to make me out to be a bigot. I've explained 3 times why I don't like the jersey. If that makes me a bigot in your world, that says more about you than it does me. There is nothing bigoted about why I don't like the jersey and feel it is unnecessary.

I have been trying to respond as diplomatically to your points as I can. RedsZone is a place where we state opinions and defend them, is it not?

I've noted that your statement that the jersey is "unnecessary" is well, just not true as far as I can tell. That argument is proven by at least two major points that I and others have made in various forms:

1) the Reds' decision to market the jersey in the first place (M2's "crass commercialism" argument, which is quite on point)
2) baseball's status as a world sport with lots of potential fans who can identify with teams in many ways.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But every opinion has reasons behind it, and I've yet to see you really explain why, given these two points you still deem the uniform "unnecessary".

Without further explanation, I'm left grasping for good reasons at why you feel this way... and one of those would simply be intolerance of others. That doesn't make you a bigot in any serious way. It just makes you intolerant of other people's right to have baseball jerseys that mean something to them.

kaldaniels
12-10-2012, 11:48 PM
I think the regular BP jerseys (at least the marketing of them) are unnecessary myself Randy. So I can agree that it is not truly necessary to have these Rojos jerseys.

But it's when you mention that (paraphrasing) "why do all groups need to be included" that raises a red flag.

If you had just said they are ugly no one would have batted an eye.

RANDY IN INDY
12-10-2012, 11:50 PM
I stated that I am a fan of classic baseball uniforms. Home whites. Road greys. I don't like the Red jersey they already have. That is my opinion and the reason I don't like the jersey. Folks that have been around here for any length of time know that about me. What I do realize is that your agenda is to try and paint me as an intolerant bigot, and I do realize that I'm not going to change that agenda by any means. That's your prerogative. I've explained my position. You reject it and are intent on reading what you want into it. That's fine, and again, says more about you than it does about me.

Done.

savafan
12-10-2012, 11:55 PM
I've lost nothing. I'm entitled to an opinion. Just because they wear it doesn't mean I have to like it and I certainly won't waste any money on it.

That's one way of getting your opinion across. That said, I imagine they will sell a lot of these jerseys, which from a marketing standpoint would show them to be a little more than unnecessary.

RANDY IN INDY
12-10-2012, 11:57 PM
I think the regular BP jerseys (at least the marketing of them) are unnecessary myself Randy. So I can agree that it is not truly necessary to have these Rojos jerseys.

But it's when you mention that (paraphrasing) "why do all groups need to be included" that raises a red flag.

If you had just said they are ugly no one would have batted an eye.

My position is why do you have to have a jersey for every group of people? Why the heck can't you just wear the Cincinnati Reds uniform? I think it is unnecessary to have to have a jersey for every individual group.

kaldaniels
12-10-2012, 11:59 PM
My position is why do you have to have a jersey for every group of people? Why the heck can't you just wear the Cincinnati Reds uniform? I think it is unnecessary to have to have a jersey for every individual group.

I agree with your last sentence. But we are not talking about every group. We are talking about one very prominent group.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 12:03 AM
My position is why do you have to have a jersey for every group of people? Why the heck can't you just wear the Cincinnati Reds uniform? I think it is unnecessary to have to have a jersey for every individual group.

As I've now mentioned many times, THIS is the position that I take issue with -- not your contention that the red jersey is ugly, which is certainly your right.

I've also tried to explain many times why other people in the world might like the Los Rojos uniform -- why it is, in fact NECESSARY if the Reds want to become something more than a provincial brand and to build a fan base that has growth potential.

It isn't that Spanish-speaking fans are unable to wear Cincinnati Reds uniforms. They can, and probably have -- some of them for many years. It's just that there is another language that is part of them, part of their culture, part of who they are. And these jerseys, in some small way, might speak to that part of them. For others, it might not. And that's their prerogative as well.

I remain baffled as to why any of this makes you angry. To me, it is a welcome expansion of the team and the culture I love to call my own in some small way.

RANDY IN INDY
12-11-2012, 12:06 AM
I agree with your last sentence. But we are not talking about every group. We are talking about one very prominent group.

There is huge heritage from many other countries in Major League Baseball. Not just hispanic. Do you honor one and not the others? What's fair about that? Where does it end? Wear the Cincinnati Reds uniform.

vaticanplum
12-11-2012, 12:09 AM
There is huge heritage from many other countries in Major League Baseball. Not just hispanic. Do you honor one and not the others? What's fair about that? Where does it end? Wear the Cincinnati Reds uniform.

Well, as of today, this is the Cincinnati Reds uniform. One of them.

Since when does baseball have a language? It's a sport. It's played with bodies and skill and athleticism, not words -- that's one of the things that makes it universally appealing. Given that pitchers and catchers are the ones who communicate most intensely on the field, in fact, it's possible that for many MLB teams there's more Spanish spoken on the field than English.

Also, Randy, I realize that part of your above argument is rhetorical, but the reality is that Hispanic/Latino heritage does have a disproportionate amount of influence on the game when compared with almost every other company in the world. What "huge heritage" do other countries have in MLB besides America and Japan? Would you have problems with a French jersey for the Blue Jays given that they play in Canada? And those are countries, not languages; many countries speak Spanish including this one. From a commercial standpoint, yes, it does make far more sense to market to them than to the Dutch-speaking population.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 12:09 AM
There is huge heritage from many other countries in Major League Baseball. Not just hispanic. Do you honor one and not the others? What's fair about that? Where does it end? Wear the Cincinnati Reds uniform.

No one is claiming that there aren't other heritages in MLB. Where do you see that argument? This is happening because the Spanish-speaking population is growing fast, and the Reds are making attempts to attract them at multiple levels -- from the player and personnel level to the fan base.

It's not about where it ends. It's about where it begins. Quite honestly, I'm sure that if there were a large enough Japanese population of Reds fans, we'd see a Japanese jersey as well. And we may still. Crass commercialism is actually quite democratic that way.

Patrick Bateman
12-11-2012, 12:17 AM
There is huge heritage from many other countries in Major League Baseball. Not just hispanic. Do you honor one and not the others? What's fair about that? Where does it end? Wear the Cincinnati Reds uniform.

It ends based on supply and demand. Obviously the Reds aren't making a German jersey, presumably because there is not sufficient demand for it.

The reason this one is being honored because there are a lot of Reds fans in this world whom have a different heritage that this might appeal to. It doesn't particularly appeal to me, but at the same time, I understand that there is a reason that it appeals to others, and for that reason, I am incapable of understanding why it is "unnecessary" and wish it didn't exist simply because it's not marketed to me. There are other Reds fans that are just as entitled to enjoy a jersey as much as you, and I don't really get outrage if it gets used in a game or batting practice or spring training or whatever because "it turns other people on".

At the same time, I get what you are saying Randy, I think maybe you just aren't articulating the point the way that you intend to and it's turned a few people off (it's hard to please everyone!).

RANDY IN INDY
12-11-2012, 12:18 AM
Then call it what it is, Redeye, crass commercialism, and quit trying to paint people as intolerant bigots.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 12:20 AM
Then call it what it is, crass commercialism, and quit trying to paint people as intolerant bigots.

The key to commercialism is demand. Los Rojos jerseys would not exist if there weren't a large number of Spanish-speaking Reds fans.
Frankly, you seem very intolerant of that idea. Or at least of the idea that those people could have a shirt in their native language.

FlightRick
12-11-2012, 12:24 AM
My position is why do you have to have a jersey for every group of people? Why the heck can't you just wear the Cincinnati Reds uniform? I think it is unnecessary to have to have a jersey for every individual group.

You're right. It is unnecessary. Utterly, completely, totally unnecessary.

Nobody can disagree with you on that.

I think the problem, as it seems to have developed this evening, is that you're taking something that is objectively unnecessary to the enterprise of playing baseball, and giving the impression that it is a gross misstep by the Reds and something that gives you cause for offense. Or, at least, annoyance.

The fact that an hispanic-targeted jersey is unnecessary for the Reds or MLB to continue doing business is hard to argue against. The notion that this is the thing that would get one's panties in a bunch is equally hard to understand. I hope that distinction is clear.

Now, you're still entitled to an opinion on the matter, and for what ever it's worth, I'll take you at your word that this is just an issue of aesthetic displeasure and/or over-marketing displeasure, and nothing more nefarious. But at the same time, I'll repeat something that I think is often overlooked: the first amendment gives you the right to have an opinion, but it doesn't give you the right to have other people shut up and agree with you. Free speech is a great thing, and all, but even better things are thinking before you speak and picking your fights wisely. Otherwise, you're gonna get called on it, by other people who just so happen to have the same rights.

And this? Just doesn't seem like a fight, at all. We live in the 21st Century, we live in a multi-cultural world, the Reds put out a new jersey reflecting that. Who, honestly, gives a flying frick?

Well, I do. But only in so far as the fact that I, too, do not care for the "los." Or "los" los. Sign me up as a chairperson if "Lose the Los" becomes A Thing....


Rick

RANDY IN INDY
12-11-2012, 12:29 AM
At the same time, I get what you are saying Randy, I think maybe you just aren't articulating the point the way that you intend to and it's turned a few people off (it's hard to please everyone!).

Frankly, Patrick, and this is not directed at you, I've been "turned off" by some of the comments directed at me. I get real tired of the folks that scream bigot every chance they can, when it is totally unwarranted.

M2
12-11-2012, 12:30 AM
My position is why do you have to have a jersey for every group of people? Why the heck can't you just wear the Cincinnati Reds uniform? I think it is unnecessary to have to have a jersey for every individual group.

I think this is where you're jumping off the rails. It's not like baseball teams only sell official jerseys. They sell almost every conceivable type of apparel and merchandise known to humans. They put their names and mascots all over the place. If they've got a nickname (e.g. the Bucs), then they'll slap that all over the place.

Alyssa Milano has gotten obscenely wealthy selling team gear tailored for women. My wife has no interest is wearing an official jersey designed for some bulky dude. However, she'll gladly wear a team shirt that fits her properly and that has some basic feminine styling. That's not a jersey for her individual group. No one's doing it to appease her or to kowtow to the female agenda. That's apparel makers figuring out what kinds of clothes women like to wear and selling it to them.

Same thing applies to Rojos shirts. Hispanic and non-Hispanic people in the U.S. and other countries want to drape themselves with the things. A Rojos shirt with a Chapman 54 on the back and suddenly you're borderline hip. It's not a shirt for a group of people. At most the Reds are looking to sell to to a group of people, and in this case it extends well beyond any one group. The reality is the Reds are selling it for fun and profit.

Remember the green St. Patrick's Day shirts and caps the team used to sell? Still might for all I know. That wasn't for Irish fans. It was for people who might want some club apparel that's slightly different from the norm or slightly different from the half dozen other Reds shirts they already own.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 12:35 AM
Frankly, Patrick, and this is not directed at you, I've been "turned off" by some of the comments directed at me. I get real tired of the folks that scream bigot every chance they can, when it is totally unwarranted.

I don't think I've been screaming at all (though tone is a difficult dial to control on message boards, even with emoticons).

I don't know you, and I don't know what your motives are. I assume that they are noble. I've tried my level best to show you where your logic seems suspect to me.

At every turn, you have responded to my honest questions by simply repeating the same assertion that the shirts are "unnecessary" without any real counter-evidence to back that up. The more you do it, the more intolerant you sound.

757690
12-11-2012, 12:36 AM
We all know who to blame for this.

The Dodgers.

The "Los Angeles" Dodgers.

It started over fifty years ago, and was totally unnecessary. They never should never changed from "The Angels Dodgers."

RANDY IN INDY
12-11-2012, 12:39 AM
So are you telling me I have to like the jersey? I didn't like the ugly St. Patricks day uniform and I'm of Irish heritage. I like traditional home whites, road greys. That's all. If you want to read more into it, tells me everything I need to know about you. I suppose "tone" on an internet board only applies to what you want it to.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 12:41 AM
Hispanic and non-Hispanic people in the U.S. and other countries want to drape themselves with the things. A Rojos shirt with a Chapman 54 on the back and suddenly you're borderline hip. It's not a shirt for a group of people. At most the Reds are looking to a group of people, and in this case it extends well beyond that. The reality is the Reds are selling it for fun and profit.

This is all true. Good points.

You would admit, though, that there are distinctions to be made here as well. Adding a Spanish language shirt to the mix has more potential for far different forms of fandom than the green Irish shirt. To me, the Irish shirt seems more like a pure gimmick (and I'm part Irish) than the Los Rojos, if only because it is in the same language and there is a ton of overlap between the two groups (Anglophone Irish Americans and other Anglophone Americans tend to be pretty closely affiliated with one another, at least over the past few centuries).

The Spanish stuff, though, that's much newer and more dynamic and untested waters. Right?

RedEye
12-11-2012, 12:42 AM
So are you telling me I have to like the jersey? I didn't like the ugly St. Patricks day uniform and I'm of Irish heritage. I like traditional home whites, road greys. That's all.

This isn't about you liking the jersey. It's about calling it unnecessary. Those are two different things.

Patrick Bateman
12-11-2012, 12:45 AM
So are you telling me I have to like the jersey? I didn't like the ugly St. Patricks day uniform and I'm of Irish heritage. I like traditional home whites, road greys. That's all.

Nobody's saying that. Not even close. Not one person here takes any offense to you not enjoying the style of the jersey or that it doesn't appeal to you.r

It's more that it seems that you can't accept or at the very least acknowledge that there is a place for stuff like this because it appeals to other people. It comes accross as "if Randy doesn't like it shouldn't exist".

Is it that hard to say that you pass on the design and the shirts aren't for you without getting into all this other nonsense about whether the Reds should be able to produce stuff like this to appeal to others?

RANDY IN INDY
12-11-2012, 12:52 AM
This isn't about you liking the jersey. It's about calling it unnecessary. Those are two different things.

How many times do I have to explain my view, my opinion. I prefer home white traditional Reds uniforms. I prefer road grey traditional Reds uniforms. It is my opinion that any other jersey is unnecessary, outside of a BP jersey to "sweat up" in pre-game workouts. I feel any other "on field" jersey is really unnecessary. It's my opinion. I'm not saying you have to agree with it, but neither do I have to agree with yours.

RANDY IN INDY
12-11-2012, 12:58 AM
Nobody's saying that. Not even close. Not one person here takes any offense to you not enjoying the style of the jersey or that it doesn't appeal to you.r

It's more that it seems that you can't accept or at the very least acknowledge that there is a place for stuff like this because it appeals to other people. It comes accross as "if Randy doesn't like it shouldn't exist".

Is it that hard to say that you pass on the design and the shirts aren't for you without getting into all this other nonsense about whether the Reds should be able to produce stuff like this to appeal to others?

I've never said that they can't produce the jerseys. They can do whatever they want. So can you. So can anyone. I just feel that extra "on-field" jerseys are unnecessary. My opinion.

It doesn't bother me that you or anyone else like the jerseys. Go buy 6 of 'em. Do whatever you like. I still can have my opinion. Why does it bother you so much?

M2
12-11-2012, 01:05 AM
This is all true. Good points.

You would admit, though, that there are distinctions to be made here as well. Adding a Spanish language shirt to the mix has more potential for far different forms of fandom than the green Irish shirt. To me, the Irish shirt seems more like a pure gimmick (and I'm part Irish) than the Los Rojos, if only because it is in the same language and there is a ton of overlap between the two groups (Anglophone Irish Americans and other Anglophone Americans tend to be pretty closely affiliated with one another, at least over the past few centuries).

The Spanish stuff, though, that's much newer and more dynamic and untested waters. Right?

I'd say Rojos shirts are a pure gimmick with the opportunity to spawn future gimmicks, even to progress beyond gimmicks. Green shirts and caps are about as far as you can take the Irish thing. Beer cozy is about the only other place to go. Irish cultural traits like extreme distrust of outsiders and repressed sexuality just don't make for great merchandising opportunities.

Like you noted, who knows where the Hispanic thing goes. There's nations full of Spanish speaking people who follow MLB plus a massive Hispanic-American culture. The jersey itself reflects American mashup culture, which is an avenue to reaching younger fans. So it's definitely bigger down the road.

As for today, it's just another product off the huckster mill.

George Anderson
12-11-2012, 01:06 AM
Let me get this straight.

We have four pages dedicated to Randy not liking a jersey and people mad at Randy for not liking the jersey.

So when do pitchers and catchers report?

Patrick Bateman
12-11-2012, 01:06 AM
I've never said that they can't produce the jerseys. They can do whatever they want. So can you. So can anyone. I just feel that extra "on-field" jerseys are unnecessary. My opinion.

It doesn't bother me that you or anyone else like the jerseys. Go buy 6 of 'em. Do whatever you like. I still can have my opinion. Why does it bother you so much?

I don't even like the jerseys (as I stated).

It only bothered me to the point that your argument at times seemed like it was bordering at times on intolerant (not necessarily bigotry, but intolerant) and stuff like that bothers me.

I stated that I thought you had better intentions than were coming across, and attempted to mediate the discussion a bit and thought a different perspective might lighten your stance a bit and maybe shed some light on maybe why your posts are being interpreted in a negative light.

Anyways... have a good night.

RANDY IN INDY
12-11-2012, 01:21 AM
Well, as of today, this is the Cincinnati Reds uniform. One of them.

Since when does baseball have a language? It's a sport. It's played with bodies and skill and athleticism, not words -- that's one of the things that makes it universally appealing. Given that pitchers and catchers are the ones who communicate most intensely on the field, in fact, it's possible that for many MLB teams there's more Spanish spoken on the field than English.

Also, Randy, I realize that part of your above argument is rhetorical, but the reality is that Hispanic/Latino heritage does have a disproportionate amount of influence on the game when compared with almost every other company in the world. What "huge heritage" do other countries have in MLB besides America and Japan? Would you have problems with a French jersey for the Blue Jays given that they play in Canada? And those are countries, not languages; many countries speak Spanish including this one. From a commercial standpoint, yes, it does make far more sense to market to them than to the Dutch-speaking population.

Ohh, well, I can think of a few pretty good Italian players. And since we are a country of immigrants, I think you would find a lot of different heritage in the makeup of MLB rosters over the years. Should we honor those as well with on field jerseys? And baseball doesn't have a language but the symbols on teams jerseys over the years have represented many different heritages and languages. How can anyone look at the Pirates uniform and not think of Roberto Clemente. The classic interlocking "NY" on the Yankees uniform says Dimaggio, Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, Jackson, and Posada just to name a few. The classic old English "D" of the Tigers says Ty Cobb, Hank Greenberg, Al Kaline, and Willie Horton, and the Dodger uniform most certainly says Sandy Koufax and Jackie Robinson. It's an honor to wear a classic Major League uniform. The players are remembered for what they did in those flannels and double knits. There is a bond to those that wear them. As a kid, I would've given anything to have one of those jerseys. I think kids of any heritage would have felt the same way and would have given anything to have one of the classic jerseys that their heroes wore. To be able to wear one of those jerseys was a dream.

Today's MLB can and will market anything it can for the almighty dollar. I just choose to like the classics. You, or anyone else, can like whatever you want. Doesn't bother me in the least, but, my opinion is my own. I won't give that up.

RANDY IN INDY
12-11-2012, 01:23 AM
Let me get this straight.

We have four pages dedicated to Randy not liking a jersey and people mad at Randy for not liking the jersey.

So when do pitchers and catchers report?

:beerme:

RANDY IN INDY
12-11-2012, 01:27 AM
I don't even like the jerseys (as I stated).

It only bothered me to the point that your argument at times seemed like it was bordering at times on intolerant (not necessarily bigotry, but intolerant) and stuff like that bothers me.

I stated that I thought you had better intentions than were coming across, and attempted to mediate the discussion a bit and thought a different perspective might lighten your stance a bit and maybe shed some light on maybe why your posts are being interpreted in a negative light.

Anyways... have a good night.

Thanks, Patrick.

757690
12-11-2012, 02:44 AM
Whatever you think of the Los Rojos uniforms, they are not even close to the most offensive Reds uniforms ever. The 1993 Good Humor Reds...

http://s.ecrater.com/stores/68455/4a324c2f0f8f6_68455n.jpg

Nathan
12-11-2012, 03:02 AM
"We saw the Brewers do this with Los Cervezeros," said Karen Forgus, the Reds' senior vice president of business operations. "There is an appetite for the fans to buy them. They sell well in other markets."

That explains everything.

KittyDuran
12-11-2012, 05:19 AM
That explains everything.

Not really... The Brewers don't have "Los" on their uniforms... :p

KittyDuran
12-11-2012, 05:21 AM
Let me get this straight.

We have four pages dedicated to Randy not liking a jersey and people mad at Randy for not liking the jersey.

So when do pitchers and catchers report?

:p 134 posts and counting...

RedFanAlways1966
12-11-2012, 07:29 AM
Freedom of speech? Not for you, Randy! Unless you speak Spanish or some other non-English language. Funny how that works.

According to the 2000 US Census 7.7 times as many people claim English as their primary language versus Spanish. Spanish is #2 in this great country though. And ahead of English and Spanish is the almighty dollar/peso/euro/etc. Hmmmm.

Sign Language is #15 (more than Japanese). Therefore, I think we may see MLB catering to these 1/2 million people. The sign for "red" is made by making a movement that looks like you are stroking your lips (one time) with the tip of your index finger. I hope to see this on a jersey... with moving finger! If we can use computers to call balls-and-strikes, then this technology has to be there.

http://lifeprint.com/asl101/images-signs/red.gif

Always Red
12-11-2012, 07:55 AM
I've discussed uniforms many times with Randy over the years; he's a traditionalist, that's all, and I know he will not be a happy man until the Reds are wearing these gorgeous beauties again:

http://www.crosley-field.com/images/what.jpg

KittyDuran
12-11-2012, 08:40 AM
I've discussed uniforms many times with Randy over the years; he's a traditionalist, that's all, and I know he will not be a happy man until the Reds are wearing these gorgeous beauties again:

http://www.crosley-field.com/images/what.jpgGorgeous is so right - my favorite as well. :luvu:

*BaseClogger*
12-11-2012, 08:41 AM
This has to be the worst thread in the history of RZ to reach 100 replies...

KittyDuran
12-11-2012, 08:51 AM
BTW, I just sent a general email to the Reds marketing department:


Karen Forgus, Reds' senior vice president of business operations, said "We saw the Brewers do this with Los Cervezeros,..." except that the Brewers only have Cervezeros on their jerseys. If it would be all possible it would be better to have only "Rojos" on the jerseys. The team is just "Reds" not "The Reds". I would assume that an major jersey order has already gone out and nothing will change - but maybe in the future just have "Rojos", and I'll buy one for sure!

Thanks!

HeatherC1212
12-11-2012, 09:01 AM
This has to be the worst thread in the history of RZ to reach 100 replies...

I was just thinking the same thing. :eek:

BTW-Cueto had one of these jerseys on during the award presentations on the main stage at Redsfest and I thought it looked pretty sharp. I don't know if I'll buy one or not at this point (I only own one jersey and it's an older one with no name on it) but I think they're pretty cool looking overall. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/KwanFan1212/P2000214.jpg

RedFanAlways1966
12-11-2012, 09:03 AM
This has to be the worst thread in the history of RZ to reach 100 replies...

Nah. I'd rank it at about ochenta y cinco (not Ocho Cinco!) for a thread with cien replies...

KittyDuran
12-11-2012, 09:12 AM
I was just thinking the same thing. :eek:

BTW-Cueto had one of these jerseys on during the award presentations on the main stage at Redsfest and I thought it looked pretty sharp. I don't know if I'll buy one or not at this point (I only own one jersey and it's an older one with no name on it) but I think they're pretty cool looking overall. :)

I'll probably buy a t-shirt with Chapman or Cueto on the back. The 2 authentic jerseys I have (1 Reds-customized, 1 Dragons) cost me nearly $300 - and I don't have that kind of money right now. I would love it if you could get a t-shirt with Perez or Concepcion number and name on the back and "Rojos" on the front (but with the BRM font)... how cool would that be? Probably could go to Koch's to see if they could whip something up.

KittyDuran
12-11-2012, 09:14 AM
This has to be the worst thread in the history of RZ to reach 100 replies...I'll predict that it won't hit 200 because it'll be shut down pretty soon.

westofyou
12-11-2012, 09:17 AM
I'll predict that it won't hit 200 because it'll be shut down pretty soon.

Pretty weak if others allow that to happen because they can't restrain themselves

WildcatFan
12-11-2012, 09:38 AM
I'm holding out until we get one in Canadian.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 09:59 AM
Let me get this straight.

We have four pages dedicated to Randy not liking a jersey and people mad at Randy for not liking the jersey.

So when do pitchers and catchers report?

You've completely missed the point. It's not about "liking" or "not liking" the jersey. It's about implying in some way that the jersey is "unnecessary." Not sure how many times I can restate that basic fact. I have no problem with you not liking the jersey's looks. I do have a problem with people who want to claim that English-only jerseys should be the rule just because of "tradition."

George Anderson
12-11-2012, 10:00 AM
I do have a problem with people who want to claim that English-only jerseys should be the rule just because of "tradition."

Yes, I share your outrage.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 10:00 AM
This has to be the worst thread in the history of RZ to reach 100 replies...

Thanks for the noteworthy contribution to the quality of the thread. If people bother to read what's actually being said here, I think they'll notice that there are some important elements of sports and the role they play in the world being discussed. That can, and should, be part of what we do at RedsZone, IMHO.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 10:01 AM
Yes, I share your outrage.

Are you serious? Or does this need a sarcastic emoticon?

RedEye
12-11-2012, 10:08 AM
How many times do I have to explain my view, my opinion. I prefer home white traditional Reds uniforms. I prefer road grey traditional Reds uniforms. It is my opinion that any other jersey is unnecessary, outside of a BP jersey to "sweat up" in pre-game workouts. I feel any other "on field" jersey is really unnecessary. It's my opinion. I'm not saying you have to agree with it, but neither do I have to agree with yours.

I have no problem with your aesthetic taste. White, grey, red, whatever. You go with whatever floats your boat.

But you still haven't really recognized my point about the word "unnecessary." The way you are using it, it means something that players need on the field. By that rationale, they probably don't need half of the stuff they wear. They probably need a ball and a bat and gloves to play, but kids have been playing baseball for decades in the street with far less in terms of attire.

As Patrick, Kal and I have argued, you get into far more difficult waters when you start arguing that somehow having shirts that recognize the languages of other groups are "unnecessary." All I've read you say on that point so far is that there is no reason for other groups to have shirts that "speak" to them or their worlds. That's why this thread keeps going on and on and on.

Tony Cloninger
12-11-2012, 10:14 AM
Geez. This is an English speaking country.

Please learn to read and speak the native language. This isn't Mexico.

I was born in South America. Came here when I was about 9-10. Learned english within 3 months and speak with no accent. My mother speaks five different languages, was a history teacher, but here did a different line of work, as she was in her early 30's and could not afford to go back to school.... they both had to work and just work in order to buy a house 6 years later.
It still took her a year to master the language and my father as well....at least a year, and watching tv and working with people. They both have accents.

We went to a diner one time about 3 years after being in this country. We spoke Spanish while waiting to have our oder taken. The server never came to us...we had to ask for one 20 minutes later. She heard us talking Spanish....and decided she was not going to deal. S


Still today it sticks out in my mind... 30 years later, how embarrassed I was at 13.... to speak Spanish or have my parents speak Spanish ...beacuse of the looks we would get. It was like that for a few years and I got over it by the end of high school. So we have my parents who come here....NOT having 1 family member here...and only one contact, learning a whole new language and culture, but having to be embarrassed for still speaking their first language beacuse English is the only language here?

I think you should learn the language as much as possible....but it is not easy for a lot, and those who do not try, that is on them to deal with but not to be made to feel like garbage for not doing so.

Let's see how hard or easy it is for you to do the same when you to another country and they tell you to quit speaking english and learn their language.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 10:14 AM
I've discussed uniforms many times with Randy over the years; he's a traditionalist, that's all, and I know he will not be a happy man until the Reds are wearing these gorgeous beauties again:

http://www.crosley-field.com/images/what.jpg

This, again, is not the grounds for the debate that we are having here. Or at least trying to have.

No one, as Patrick B. wrote earlier, is arguing that individuals can't have their own aesthetic tastes.

Always Red
12-11-2012, 10:28 AM
This, again, is not the grounds for the debate that we are having here. Or at least trying to have.

No one, as Patrick B. wrote earlier, is arguing that individuals can't have their own aesthetic tastes.

Respectfully, RedEye, I think you are trying to push this debate in another direction, one that no one really wants to go on this forum.

I posted that pic because I have been on many uniform threads in the past with Randy, and that's the uniform I know he prefers, the one he loves, the one we both grew up with. Some here are trying to paint things differently. And some are trying to provoke him.

mdccclxix
12-11-2012, 10:33 AM
How often do the Yankees change their uni's? I don't know. Seems like never. When you want to create a monoculture of fandom, you also hope it breeds loyalty and solidarity and familiarity and trust and pride, etc. I can see the advantage of never changing. Of course winning helps. Changing uni's all the time does seem to be indicative of a franchise in flux, a bit desperate perhaps, gimmicky. When things are going well, everyone wants to be under the tent, so why change the message? It could actually hurt things. Meanwhile, teams like Oregon have embraced new uni's for every game or whatever. Again, though, are the Ducks the Trojans? No. So, yeah, there would be a real appeal to picking the BRM unis, and sticking with'm.

Edit: I think the Reds newest uni's made an attempt at looking backward where the past was better, and they were greeted well by fans.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 10:43 AM
How often do the Yankees change their uni's? I don't know. Seems like never. When you want to create a monoculture of fandom, you also hope it breeds loyalty and solidarity and familiarity and trust and pride, etc. I can see the advantage of never changing. Of course winning helps. Changing uni's all the time does seem to be indicative of a franchise in flux, a bit desperate perhaps, gimmicky. When things are going well, everyone wants to be under the tent, so why change the message? It could actually hurt things. Meanwhile, teams like Oregon have embraced new uni's for every game or whatever. Again, though, are the Ducks the Trojans? No. So, yeah, there would be a real appeal to picking the BRM unis, and sticking with'm.

Edit: I think the Reds newest uni's made an attempt at looking backward where the past was better, and they were greeted well by fans.

Interestingly enough, the word "Yankees" is also synonymous in many other cultures for American philistines who insist on monoculture.

Chip R
12-11-2012, 10:49 AM
How often do the Yankees change their uni's? I don't know. Seems like never. When you want to create a monoculture of fandom, you also hope it breeds loyalty and solidarity and familiarity and trust and pride, etc. I can see the advantage of never changing. Of course winning helps. Changing uni's all the time does seem to be indicative of a franchise in flux, a bit desperate perhaps, gimmicky. When things are going well, everyone wants to be under the tent, so why change the message? It could actually hurt things. Meanwhile, teams like Oregon have embraced new uni's for every game or whatever. Again, though, are the Ducks the Trojans? No. So, yeah, there would be a real appeal to picking the BRM unis, and sticking with'm.

Edit: I think the Reds newest uni's made an attempt at looking backward where the past was better, and they were greeted well by fans.

What's good for one franchise may not be so good for the other. An argument can be made that the uniforms get recruits to Oregon. Logically choice of a college shouldn't be made because of a uniform but we are talking about 17 year old kids here.

The Yankees don't have to change uniforms all the time because they have that history and tradition. They also play in the largest market in the country so it's not like they have to go out and reinvent themselves all the time. Other franchises don't have those advantages and have to change from time to time to appear new and different. That's especially the case when the product on the field isn't good. With a franchise like the Reds, you can say that the uniforms were the best in the 70s and that's great but it's really only traditional to you. Why not the uniforms of the 30s or 40s? Because it's not the uniforms we grew up with - except for RFS. :evil:

Personally, I prefer white at home and dark on the road for all teams. I don't like watching a game when both teams are wearing the same color jersey. The Sunday/day game jersey of the Reds is nice as is the Los Rojos jersey but I would rather those be worn on the road and whites only at home.

mdccclxix
12-11-2012, 11:07 AM
What's good for one franchise may not be so good for the other. An argument can be made that the uniforms get recruits to Oregon. Logically choice of a college shouldn't be made because of a uniform but we are talking about 17 year old kids here.

The Yankees don't have to change uniforms all the time because they have that history and tradition. They also play in the largest market in the country so it's not like they have to go out and reinvent themselves all the time. Other franchises don't have those advantages and have to change from time to time to appear new and different. That's especially the case when the product on the field isn't good. With a franchise like the Reds, you can say that the uniforms were the best in the 70s and that's great but it's really only traditional to you. Why not the uniforms of the 30s or 40s? Because it's not the uniforms we grew up with - except for RFS. :evil:

Personally, I prefer white at home and dark on the road for all teams. I don't like watching a game when both teams are wearing the same color jersey. The Sunday/day game jersey of the Reds is nice as is the Los Rojos jersey but I would rather those be worn on the road and whites only at home.

I agree that the Reds have felt compelled to change because of the pressure to sell shirts and put the past behind them. Meanwhile, it moves the ball for people that would root for their team no matter what. In some sense, deep down, do we really want to be marketed to in order to root for a team? No. I think that's Randy's point. For the Reds, it's beyond the point where they could say "This is who we are and always will be", and going back the BRM jersey's would sort of seem pathetic as well, but if it was stuck to people would start to understand it and gravitate that way. Meanwhile, winning is imperative. Do I care hardly at all about the Los Rojos? No. (Should just be Rojos though) Do I think it would've been cool to stick with a look at any point over the last 50 years? Yes. Do I have any idea what kind of coin the Reds could make either way? No. :D

RedEye
12-11-2012, 11:16 AM
Respectfully, RedEye, I think you are trying to push this debate in another direction, one that no one really wants to go on this forum.


Respectfully, I don't know about that. Have you read the other posts? Quite a few people have expressed opinions similar to mine without trying to get to the grounding assumptions in the rhetoric. It's important to consider the power of the words we use in our culture. "Tradition", IMO, in most cases bears a relationship to intolerance of change. That's not always a nefarious connection, but it can be one. Calling someone else's traditions or attempts to establish or make way for them "unnecessary" is problematic in the same light.

Yes, I have adopted an insistent stance here; some might say shrill. If so, I apologize. But that's because I don't feel as if certain posters have recognized a basic point I'm making. I've tried hard to be diplomatic and polite and I've never called Randy a bigot (though, to be fair, he has accused me of being a "screaming bigot caller" or something like that). Rather, I've pointed out that some of the claims he's making are intolerant of difference.

If the mods tell me to shut up, I will. Until then, though, I'll assume that I'm free to express my opinions here about the topic at hand.

WildcatFan
12-11-2012, 11:20 AM
RedEye, your name in Spanish is Ojo Rojo.

So that's a fun thing about this thread.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 11:22 AM
RedEye, your name in Spanish is Ojo Rojo.

So that's a fun thing about this thread.

Should I change it? If I get enough votes for that, i will. :D I actually like that better than my current moniker, which is one of those "gosh, I can't think of a good name to use but this forum looks like an interesting place to be a member" names. I hope it doesn't have any negative connotations in Spanish that I'm not aware of...:eek:

EDIT: I think this is an appropriate place for me to sign off from this thread. God knows I've made my point. Or at least a kept trying until someone suggested I change my name! If it keeps going without my interventions, I'll rejoin tomorrow.

Roy Tucker
12-11-2012, 12:58 PM
I think we're like baby ducks.

When they are hatched, the first living thing they see, they say "mama". If its a duck or an elephant, it doesn't matter.

Same thing with Reds uniforms. The day (or month or season) you become a fan,you are imprinted with that uniform as the way its supposed to be. For me, its the '64 Reds. All other are imposters and, one could say, unnecessary.

Now, everyone get off my lawn.

Caveat Emperor
12-11-2012, 01:06 PM
I'm holding out until we get one in Canadian.

REDS, EH?

RANDY IN INDY
12-11-2012, 01:08 PM
I have no problem with your aesthetic taste. White, grey, red, whatever. You go with whatever floats your boat.

But you still haven't really recognized my point about the word "unnecessary." The way you are using it, it means something that players need on the field. By that rationale, they probably don't need half of the stuff they wear. They probably need a ball and a bat and gloves to play, but kids have been playing baseball for decades in the street with far less in terms of attire.

As Patrick, Kal and I have argued, you get into far more difficult waters when you start arguing that somehow having shirts that recognize the languages of other groups are "unnecessary." All I've read you say on that point so far is that there is no reason for other groups to have shirts that "speak" to them or their worlds. That's why this thread keeps going on and on and on.

Maybe you need to take a step back and realize that maybe you have not recognized the way that I have used the word, "unnecessary," and have tried to manipulate my words into something very nasty that I never intended. With that, I truly am done with this thread, and with you.

By the way, looks like I'm not the only one that dislikes the jersey. From Uni-Watch:

"New alternate jersey for the Reds: “Couldn’t hate it more,” says Cincy’s own David Sonny. “Take an ugly softball top in solid red, replace the classic wishbone-C with a generic chest-wide wordmark completely devoid of any ties to the Reds history, and you get the ugliest uniform the Reds have had since the vests with black sleeves.”

"You know what it looks like? A red road Dodgers jersey. Criminal."

This comment makes the most sense of all:

"But I agree with Dave Sonny that the Reds’ Hispanic jersey is stylistically uninspired and that it is devoid of any connection to Reds’ history. They could have done a version of the C-Reds wishbone-C logo with the word “Rojos” in place of “Reds”."

KittyDuran
12-11-2012, 01:11 PM
REDS, EH?Rouges, Quoi?
:D

RedEye
12-11-2012, 01:20 PM
Maybe you need to take a step back and realize that maybe you have not recognized the way that I have used the word, "unnecessary," and have tried to manipulate my words into something very nasty that I never intended. With that, I truly am done with this thread, and with you.

Dear Randy, I just tried to private message you on this with an "olive branch" of sorts -- but it said your inbox was full. Clear it and I'll be happy to correspond about this off list more. I'm not here to make enemies.

Anyway, I feel I have multiple times taken the "step back" you advocate in this actual thread. I have acknowledged your intended meaning of the word "unnecessary" and pointed out its implications. Sadly, my point seems to still fall largely on deaf ears. :(

top6
12-11-2012, 01:43 PM
I just read this whole thread for some reason and cannot understand what people are arguing with Randy about. He pretty clearly said over and over again that he just didn't like the jersey, and (while I don't want to put words in his mouth) it sounds like he wouldn't like any jersey that wasn't the traditional home/away jersey, whether it was in English, Spanish, Chinese or Klingon. Not that he needs me to defend him, but I think there were suggestions that his post was bigoted and they were over the line. (At first I thought people were conflating his posts with other, more political posts, but then the argument went on and on...)

On topic, I think the new jersey is great. I actually almost bought one at Reds Fest, but saved the $ to rebuy in the poker tournament, which turned out to be a good idea after George Foster almost took all my chips.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 02:14 PM
I just read this whole thread for some reason and cannot understand what people are arguing with Randy about.

Let me draw your attention to the two posts that set me off.

From Randy:


The jersey is ugly and unnecessary in my opinion. Do they need a jersey so every group can feel good Where's it end???? It's baseball. Wear your uniform and play the game.


From Vottomatic:


Geez. This is an English speaking country.

Please learn to read and speak the native language. This isn't Mexico.

camisadelgolf
12-11-2012, 02:56 PM
Freedom of speech? Not for you, Randy! Unless you speak Spanish or some other non-English language. Funny how that works.
Freedom of speech can include the right to tell people to shut up, can't it? I'm not necessarily saying anyone in here should shut up (well, not yet anyway), but it's ironic that you would criticize people for criticizing someone.

camisadelgolf
12-11-2012, 02:57 PM
How long until this thread gets moved to the politics and religion forum? :D

bucksfan2
12-11-2012, 03:20 PM
I am kinda surprised the uproar this thread has caused.

As for the jersey I don't really care. I know a lot of franchises are going towards a Spanish jersey as a gimmick. IMO it does more for a team located in Arizona (I know the Suns were one of the firsts to do this) than it does in Cincy but if the ownership thinks that this will help reach the hispanic community in Cincinnati then go for it. I would do it on Cinco de Mayo and maybe another date but I would use it sparingly.

M2
12-11-2012, 03:44 PM
How often do the Yankees change their uni's? I don't know. Seems like never. When you want to create a monoculture of fandom, you also hope it breeds loyalty and solidarity and familiarity and trust and pride, etc. I can see the advantage of never changing.

My wife is a Yankees fan and owns a fair amount of Yankees apparel. Not one of those items is an official team jersey.

durl
12-11-2012, 04:39 PM
So what is the purpose of creating a jersey with another language that a minority speak? Don't we honor Latino players by scouting and signing them? Do we need a jersey to show that the team REALLY, REALLY likes Hispanics?

Perhaps this thread should be moved to religion and politics. I'm confident that the jersey was created for political reasons.

Let's just play ball as the "Reds." That's the name of the team.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 04:40 PM
So what is the purpose of creating a jersey with another language that a minority speak? Don't we honor Latino players by scouting and signing them? Do we need a jersey to show that the team REALLY, REALLY likes Hispanics?

Perhaps this thread should be moved to religion and politics. I'm confident that the jersey was created for political reasons.

Let's just play ball as the "Reds." That's the name of the team.

Aaaaaaaargh

:bang:

M2
12-11-2012, 04:51 PM
So what is the purpose of creating a jersey with another language that a minority speak?

To sell shirts and make easy money.

Wonderful Monds
12-11-2012, 04:52 PM
How do people act so shocked when it's suggested that Cincinnati has a reputation as racist?

Caveat Emperor
12-11-2012, 04:53 PM
To sell shirts and make easy money.

You mean "Dinero"

Reds Freak
12-11-2012, 04:55 PM
How do people act so shocked when it's suggested that Cincinnati has a reputation as racist?

How many people on this board are actually from Cincinnati?

The Voice of IH
12-11-2012, 04:56 PM
I think the jerseys are ugly.

It looks like Walt Disney made the letters/signature for it.

camisadelgolf
12-11-2012, 04:56 PM
How do people act so shocked when it's suggested that Cincinnati has a reputation as racist?
:lol:
Cincinnati: where change and all things different won't be accepted until long after everyone else was okay with it.

The Voice of IH
12-11-2012, 04:58 PM
How do people act so shocked when it's suggested that Cincinnati has a reputation as racist?

Because we have the Freedom center! :nono:

westofyou
12-11-2012, 05:05 PM
I think the jerseys are ugly.

It looks like Walt Disney made the letters/signature for it.

Or a graphic artist in depression era Cincinnati

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7041&lotIdNo=160002#70907090676

http://images.ha.com/lf?set=path%5B7%2F0%2F9%2F0%2F7090676%5D%2Csizedat a%5B220x350%5D&call=url%5Bfile%3Aproduct.chain%5D

dsmith421
12-11-2012, 05:06 PM
The idea is fine but the execution stinks, in my opinion. A couple reasons:

First, as brought up elsewhere, the convention in Latin America is to translate the name of baseball teams excepting those that can't be easily translated into Spanish. Hence, Rojos, Cachorros, Cardenales, Gigantes, Piratas, Cerveceros, etc. vs. Los Dodgers. The "Los" article is used on the Hispanic heritage jerseys in the NBA because the team names aren't usually translated (e.g., los Bulls rather than Toros, los Lakers, el Heat, los Spurs).

Second, the most successful of these jerseys (Gigantes and Cerveceros) work because they are minor changes to the familiar uniform template. They don't look like gimmicks because they resemble the team's typical uniforms with a minor nod to the language being used.

My question is simple -- why not just do a standard home or alternate red top with the C-REDS logo replaced by C-ROJOS? Why do we need a crappy looking softball jersey with silly piping and a design that has no connection to the Reds existing visual identity? (I guess arguably it looks a little like the batting practice jersey.)

Always Red
12-11-2012, 05:42 PM
To sell shirts and make easy money.

This is absolutely the reason, it's not about anything else deeper, more cultural, more sacred, and it's not that hard to understand

If los Rojos can get Shin-Soo Choo this offseason, I'm having a custom made jersey with "Reds" in Korean script.

And if he gets on base 38% of the time, I'd bet I could sell a boatload of them too.

Wonderful Monds
12-11-2012, 05:45 PM
How many people on this board are actually from Cincinnati?

I think it's fair to assume most of us are associated with the city in some regard.

Wonderful Monds
12-11-2012, 05:46 PM
This is absolutely the reason, it's not about anything else deeper, more cultural, more sacred, and it's not that hard to understand

If los Rojos can get Shin-Soo Choo this offseason, I'm having a custom made jersey with "Reds" in Korean script.

And if he gets on base 38% of the time, I'd bet I could sell a boatload of them too.

Sounds cool, good luck selling them though if Atlanta fans can't even sell "BARVES" t-shirts.

Caveat Emperor
12-11-2012, 05:48 PM
So, I'll bite:

Who else wants a LOS ROJOS Shin-Soo Choo jersey besides me?

RedEye
12-11-2012, 05:54 PM
So, I'll bite:

Who else wants a LOS ROJOS Shin-Soo Choo jersey besides me?

Sign me up! Best jersey ever!

Always Red
12-11-2012, 06:12 PM
Sounds cool, good luck selling them though if Atlanta fans can't even sell "BARVES" t-shirts.

Babylon tells me it this:

명. 빨강, 빨간색; 빨간 그림 물감이나 안료; 좌파, 급진파, 특히 공산주의자


And that's just for "Reds". I don't think that would fit on the front of a jersey. I also plugged it into Spanish, and it told me Rojos and Comunista, so maybe the Korean is saying some bad stuff about communists?

Which takes us back to REDLEGS!! We've come full circle. :D

SunDeck
12-12-2012, 12:57 PM
Do we get these complaints when the Reds wear green on St. Patrick's Day? I'd be tempted to buy a "Rojos" jersey if it looked liked the English language one with the wishbone C. Otherwise, this jersey doesn't really look like a Reds jersey.

Caveat Emperor
12-12-2012, 01:07 PM
If you do get a Los Rojos jersey, I expect to have the option to add unnecessary accent marks or tildes above player names.

Hańigań

or

Brucé

Nathan
12-12-2012, 07:10 PM
If you do get a Los Rojos jersey, I expect to have the option to add unnecessary accent marks or tildes above player names.

Hańigań



My, God, that'd be hard to pronounce..

Yachtzee
12-12-2012, 08:33 PM
While I agree with Randy in not liking the design, I have no problem with a Rojos jersey if properly executed.

Personally, I've always thought the Reds should do something to tie in with Oktoberfest Zinzinnati and celebrate the city's German heritage. "Roten" or "Rotstrümpfe" (Red Stockings/Redlegs) on a classic home white jersey would look good. Add in a hat giveaway, like a German hat with a wishbone C stitched on it would be fun.

marcshoe
12-12-2012, 09:30 PM
While I agree with Randy in not liking the design, I have no problem with a Rojos jersey if properly executed.

Personally, I've always thought the Reds should do something to tie in with Oktoberfest Zinzinnati and celebrate the city's German heritage. "Roten" or "Rotstrümpfe" (Red Stockings/Redlegs) on a classic home white jersey would look good. Add in a hat giveaway, like a German hat with a wishbone C stitched on it would be fun.

I like that. Make it so.

Tadasimha
12-12-2012, 11:08 PM
While I agree with Randy in not liking the design, I have no problem with a Rojos jersey if properly executed.

Personally, I've always thought the Reds should do something to tie in with Oktoberfest Zinzinnati and celebrate the city's German heritage. "Roten" or "Rotstrümpfe" (Red Stockings/Redlegs) on a classic home white jersey would look good. Add in a hat giveaway, like a German hat with a wishbone C stitched on it would be fun.


I like that. Make it so.

Made it so (at least with photoshop)! These would be a huge hit at Oktoberfest.

camisadelgolf
12-13-2012, 03:34 AM
Made it so (at least with photoshop)! These would be a huge hit at Oktoberfest.
If you move the wishbone C, people would be all over that. It's only a matter of time before someone's making money off that.

Yachtzee
12-13-2012, 06:11 PM
If you move the wishbone C, people would be all over that. It's only a matter of time before someone's making money off that.

I've had this idea for about 5 years now. I wish I had the time and money to do something about it. I think it would be a good money maker to set up a booth at Oktoberfest. If people will spend money on chicken hats, I'm sure Reds fans would shell out the bucks for this. The other idea is to take it to the Reds and see if you can get a corporate sponsor for a hat giveaway at a home game. Beer companies like Sam Adams and Leinenkugel's give out free hats with their logo at various Oktoberfests every year, so I'm sure a version could be made at reasonable cost.

KittyDuran
12-18-2012, 04:37 PM
Bumping this up - got a reply last week...


BTW, I just sent a general email to the Reds marketing department: Karen Forgus, Reds' senior vice president of business operations, said "We saw the Brewers do this with Los Cervezeros,..." except that the Brewers only have Cervezeros on their jerseys. If it would be all possible it would be better to have only "Rojos" on the jerseys. The team is just "Reds" not "The Reds". I would assume that an major jersey order has already gone out and nothing will change - but maybe in the future just have "Rojos", and I'll buy one for sure!

Thanks!

Dear Catherine,

I am forwarding your message off to the parties in charge of such decisions.

Thanks so much for your email, its responses like yours that really help to give us a better idea as to what the fans want.

We hope you have a wonderful holiday season and we look forward to seeing you next season.

Sincerely,

Nick St.Pierre
Mascot Coordinator/Promotional Events

oneupper
12-18-2012, 04:46 PM
Bumping this up - got a reply last week...



Dear Catherine,

I am forwarding your message off to the parties in charge of such decisions.

Thanks so much for your email, its responses like yours that really help to give us a better idea as to what the fans want.

We hope you have a wonderful holiday season and we look forward to seeing you next season.

Sincerely,

Nick St.Pierre
Mascot Coordinator/Promotional Events


Great. Maybe a few more of us who prefer "Rojos" can follow up with the same suggestion also.

SunDeck
12-18-2012, 07:11 PM
Mascot Coordinator?
I'd have thought Mr. Red would have ascended to that position, what with his seniority.

Joseph
12-18-2012, 07:25 PM
Mascot Coordinator?
I'd have thought Mr. Red would have ascended to that position, what with his seniority.

Well he was retired for a while, so he has to work his way back up the ladder.

Yachtzee
12-18-2012, 07:45 PM
Well he was retired for a while, so he has to work his way back up the ladder.

Actually I believe they hired him back as an independent contractor so that he could double dip on his pension and salary.

SunDeck
12-18-2012, 07:54 PM
I suspect the "alien eyes" period didn't work in his favor. He was clearly going through something.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/Mr_Red.jpg/120px-Mr_Red.jpg

Crumbley
12-18-2012, 08:18 PM
I suspect the "alien eyes" period didn't work in his favor. He was clearly going through something.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/Mr_Red.jpg/120px-Mr_Red.jpg
Even the mascots were low rent back then, ugh.

I sent a note (http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/help/email.jsp?c_id=cin&primarySubject=Other&secondarySubject=Other&dest=fanfeedback@reds.mlb.com) to the Reds imploring them to lose the Los and retain the Rojos.

Chip R
12-18-2012, 10:53 PM
Bumping this up - got a reply last week...



Dear Catherine,

I am forwarding your message off to the parties in charge of such decisions.

Thanks so much for your email, its responses like yours that really help to give us a better idea as to what the fans want.

We hope you have a wonderful holiday season and we look forward to seeing you next season.

Sincerely,

Nick St.Pierre
Mascot Coordinator/Promotional Events

Catherine? Ooooo, fancy.

KittyDuran
12-19-2012, 05:12 AM
Catherine? Ooooo, fancy.

Sometimes you have to go all out for a cause! :D

SunDeck
12-19-2012, 08:33 AM
Even the mascots were low rent back then, ugh.

I sent a note (http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/help/email.jsp?c_id=cin&primarySubject=Other&secondarySubject=Other&dest=fanfeedback@reds.mlb.com) to the Reds imploring them to lose the Los and retain the Rojos.

Note sent as well- thanks for the link!

Tadasimha
12-19-2012, 09:51 PM
Note sent as well- thanks for the link!

Joined the movement as well!

oneupper
12-20-2012, 07:58 AM
Joined the movement as well!

The movement now smells like a conspiracy!

Roy Tucker
12-20-2012, 08:26 AM
The movement now smells like a conspiracy!


All you have to do is sing it the next time it comes around on the guitar...

Tadasimha
12-20-2012, 10:05 AM
The movement now smells like a conspiracy!

Open a window!

KittyDuran
05-11-2013, 12:37 PM
Bump...
Team is wearing the jerseys today. Jamie tweeted the info and I responded that I didn't like 'em for previous noted reason...

RANDY IN INDY
05-11-2013, 04:47 PM
I don't like 'em, either. Not good.

Wonderful Monds
05-11-2013, 04:49 PM
I don't like 'em, either. Not good.

:rolleyes:

Norm Chortleton
05-11-2013, 05:05 PM
I'm puzzled why Senor Rojopiernas isn't wearing a sombrero on the jersey sleeves and hats.

reds1869
05-11-2013, 05:25 PM
I agree that the jerseys would look better if they simply read "Rojos." Someone needs to make that happen for next year.

757690
05-11-2013, 05:29 PM
I agree that the jerseys would look better if they simply read "Rojos." Someone needs to make that happen for next year.

Or change the Reds red, day jerseys to read, "The Reds" ;)

RANDY IN INDY
05-11-2013, 05:55 PM
:rolleyes:

Typical

reds44
05-11-2013, 05:56 PM
I'm puzzled why Senor Rojopiernas isn't wearing a sombrero on the jersey sleeves and hats.
That would be awesome/hilarious but I think that would be skirting the line of good taste.

I like the jerseys, and I love the hats.

reds1869
05-11-2013, 06:05 PM
That would be awesome/hilarious but I think that would be skirting the line of good taste.

I like the jerseys, and I love the hats.

The hats are awesome. I know black is not everyone's cup of tea but they look sharp.

_Sir_Charles_
05-11-2013, 06:16 PM
I like the way the jersey's look crossing the plate.

smixsell
05-11-2013, 07:39 PM
Don't mind the Spanish jerseys, don't like the hats. Gotta have the wishbone C if you ask me.

Always Red
05-11-2013, 08:01 PM
Don't mind the Spanish jerseys, don't like the hats. Gotta have the wishbone C if you ask me.

Agree

The hats are great if me and you wear them while doing whatever.

But for a game, I prefer the usual red with white wishbone C.

redsrule2500
05-11-2013, 08:12 PM
Geez. This is an English speaking country.

Please learn to read and speak the native language. This isn't Mexico.

You obviously haven't heard, countries aren't able to maintain native speaking status if they were colonized after 1700. :lol:

BCubb2003
05-11-2013, 09:34 PM
They can wear them every day if they hit like they did today.

Although Die Roten would sound awesome, especially in October in Zinzinnati.

New York Red
05-11-2013, 09:53 PM
Liked the uniforms, but despised the hats. But if they create that kind of offense, bring 'em on. :beerme:

scott91575
05-11-2013, 10:13 PM
Agree

The hats are great if me and you wear them while doing whatever.

But for a game, I prefer the usual red with white wishbone C.

You don't sell as many extra hats if you stick with the wishbone C.

Always Red
05-11-2013, 10:18 PM
You don't sell as many extra hats if you stick with the wishbone C.

I'm not selling hats.

mattfeet
05-11-2013, 10:21 PM
I loved the hats. To each their own.

Hoosier Red
05-11-2013, 10:25 PM
I'm not selling hats.

Well certainly not with that attitude.

Reds/Flyers Fan
05-11-2013, 10:25 PM
Loved the Los Rojos jerseys so much I bought one. I hope they wear them more.

Also loved the hats.

Joseph
05-11-2013, 10:30 PM
Not a fan, but not the guy whose gonna whine about it all day. If its kept it needs to be just Rojos.

Blitz Dorsey
05-12-2013, 09:52 AM
Yeah, has anyone explained the rationale for the "Los" in front of "Rojos"? I'm glad others have brought that up. I don't mind marketing to the growing Hispanic population. I don't mind "Rojos" and I actually thought the unis looked fairly sharp.

But "Los" Rojos? I think what they did was just copy what the NBA does with "El Heat" and "Los Bulls" and all that stuff. Again, no need for the first word. The Miami Heat don't put "The Heat" on their regular uniforms. The Bulls don't put "The Bulls." (Although, they should look into using DaBulls, that would be awesome.) And the Reds don't use "The Reds." So, why the "Los" for the Spanish uniforms? I don't get it.

The rest of it I actually get. But that small detail is very strange to me.

Big Klu
05-12-2013, 10:13 AM
Yeah, has anyone explained the rationale for the "Los" in front of "Rojos"? I'm glad others have brought that up. I don't mind marketing to the growing Hispanic population. I don't mind "Rojos" and I actually thought the unis looked fairly sharp.

But "Los" Rojos? I think what they did was just copy what the NBA does with "El Heat" and "Los Bulls" and all that stuff. Again, no need for the first word. The Miami Heat don't put "The Heat" on their regular uniforms. The Bulls don't put "The Bulls." (Although, they should look into using DaBulls, that would be awesome.) And the Reds don't use "The Reds." So, why the "Los" for the Spanish uniforms? I don't get it.

The rest of it I actually get. But that small detail is very strange to me.

Why are the Dodgers wearing the Angels' road Latino jerseys? It prominently says, "Los Angeles" on the front.

Marc D
05-12-2013, 10:48 AM
Yeah, has anyone explained the rationale for the "Los" in front of "Rojos"? I'm glad others have brought that up. I don't mind marketing to the growing Hispanic population. I don't mind "Rojos" and I actually thought the unis looked fairly sharp.

But "Los" Rojos? I think what they did was just copy what the NBA does with "El Heat" and "Los Bulls" and all that stuff. Again, no need for the first word. The Miami Heat don't put "The Heat" on their regular uniforms. The Bulls don't put "The Bulls." (Although, they should look into using DaBulls, that would be awesome.) And the Reds don't use "The Reds." So, why the "Los" for the Spanish uniforms? I don't get it.

The rest of it I actually get. But that small detail is very strange to me.

"Reds" is a shortened version of "The Cincinnati Reds". In Spanish that translates "Los Rojos de Cincinnati".

That's all I can think of. Probably as simple an explanation as doing it both ways and seeing the two word version looks better.

Roy Tucker
05-12-2013, 11:01 AM
I think its just because Los sounds more Hispanic.

Blitz Dorsey
05-12-2013, 11:16 AM
Why are the Dodgers wearing the Angels' road Latino jerseys? It prominently says, "Los Angeles" on the front.

Haha. Well played.

:beerme:

redssince75
05-12-2013, 11:19 AM
Yeah, has anyone explained the rationale for the "Los" in front of "Rojos"? I'm glad others have brought that up. I don't mind marketing to the growing Hispanic population. I don't mind "Rojos" and I actually thought the unis looked fairly sharp.

But "Los" Rojos? I think what they did was just copy what the NBA does with "El Heat" and "Los Bulls" and all that stuff. Again, no need for the first word. The Miami Heat don't put "The Heat" on their regular uniforms. The Bulls don't put "The Bulls." (Although, they should look into using DaBulls, that would be awesome.) And the Reds don't use "The Reds." So, why the "Los" for the Spanish uniforms? I don't get it.

The rest of it I actually get. But that small detail is very strange to me.

Este uno pertenece a los rojos?

oneupper
05-12-2013, 12:12 PM
Este uno pertenece a los rojos?

Which would be grammatically incorrect. :D

redssince75
05-12-2013, 12:14 PM
Which would be grammatically incorrect. :D

Heck, I just did an online translator because I don't know the word for "belongs." Blame google!

Redlegs
05-12-2013, 04:54 PM
Sólo ganar, bebé.

Wonderful Monds
05-12-2013, 05:18 PM
Yeah, has anyone explained the rationale for the "Los" in front of "Rojos"? I'm glad others have brought that up. I don't mind marketing to the growing Hispanic population. I don't mind "Rojos" and I actually thought the unis looked fairly sharp.

But "Los" Rojos? I think what they did was just copy what the NBA does with "El Heat" and "Los Bulls" and all that stuff. Again, no need for the first word. The Miami Heat don't put "The Heat" on their regular uniforms. The Bulls don't put "The Bulls." (Although, they should look into using DaBulls, that would be awesome.) And the Reds don't use "The Reds." So, why the "Los" for the Spanish uniforms? I don't get it.

The rest of it I actually get. But that small detail is very strange to me.

Wait a second, are the Reds the first MLB team to do a Spanish jersey?

Wonderful Monds
05-12-2013, 05:20 PM
Wait a second, are the Reds the first MLB team to do a Spanish jersey?

A quick Googling says no.

The Atleticos got it right, but "Los DBacks" probably have the worst Spanish jersey ever.
http://news.sportslogos.net/2012/09/16/oakland-as-celebrate-fiesta-day-with-atleticos-jerseys/

sdwagers
05-12-2013, 08:14 PM
Wait a second, are the Reds the first MLB team to do a Spanish jersey?

the Giants and Brewers did Spanish jerseys as well... I think the Dodgers as well.

Always Red
05-12-2013, 08:59 PM
Wait a second, are the Reds the first MLB team to do a Spanish jersey?

The San Diego Padres have been doing it since 1969, at the MLB level, and before that clear back to 1936 in the Pacific Coast league.

The team's name, the Spanish word for "fathers", refers to the Spanish Franciscan friars who founded San Diego in 1769.

El Padres?

Los Padres?

nah, just "Padres"

Blitz Dorsey
05-12-2013, 10:57 PM
The San Diego Padres have been doing it since 1969, at the MLB level, and before that clear back to 1936 in the Pacific Coast league.

The team's name, the Spanish word for "fathers", refers to the Spanish Franciscan friars who founded San Diego in 1769.

El Padres?

Los Padres?

nah, just "Padres"

"San Diego" actually means "A Whale's Vagina."

Agree to disagree?

Fine, fine. When in Rome, I suppose.

MrRedLegger
05-12-2013, 11:11 PM
As with most romance languages, it needs the article "Los" to make it a plural noun. Just "Rojos" would be an adjective describing things that are red.

PickOff
05-12-2013, 11:31 PM
As with most romance languages, it needs the article "Los" to make it a plural noun. Just "Rojos" would be an adjective describing things that are red.

Bingo!

Always Red
05-13-2013, 06:57 AM
"San Diego" actually means "A Whale's Vagina."

Agree to disagree?

Fine, fine. When in Rome, I suppose.

Umm...no. :confused:

oneupper
05-13-2013, 07:54 AM
As with most romance languages, it needs the article "Los" to make it a plural noun. Just "Rojos" would be an adjective describing things that are red.

They aren't constructing a sentence with it. In this case, it is quite clearly a proper noun, like the "GREEN" on Dick Green's jersey back.

Check out jerseys from winter leagues. The only one I remember with "Los" is "Los Mochis", because "Los Mochis" is the name of the town (the team nickname is Cańeros).

For example Bravos de Margarita is a Venezuelan Winter League team. Bravos can also be an adjective. The uniforms do not carry a "Los"

http://www.liderendeportes.com/extras/podcast/CamisaBravos2012.jpg

Newspaper headlines will omit the "Los" as in

Rojos 5, Cerveceros 1

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/espanol/2013/05/12/rojos-5-cerveceros-1-peralta-recibe-jonron-de-lutz-y-cincinnati-barre-serie-en/

They could ask the latin players how they prefer it, with or without "los" , but I suspect they don't care much either way, unlike other people. :D

Always Red
05-13-2013, 01:16 PM
"San Diego" actually means "A Whale's Vagina."

Agree to disagree?

Fine, fine. When in Rome, I suppose.

OK, it took me a while, since I've never seen Anchorman.

Makes sense now! :D