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View Full Version : Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious



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jojo
12-11-2012, 06:14 PM
Since the Tribe acquired Choo for Ben Broussard, does that mean the Reds finally won the Russell Branyon trade? ;)

I know Seattle didn't. :p

Matt700wlw
12-11-2012, 06:14 PM
I'm happy with every starter in the lineup now.

Lets just stay healthy.

Health is out of everyone's control, but there's not a whole lot to dislike right now.

Reds/Flyers Fan
12-11-2012, 06:18 PM
From an Indians' fan's perspective on Cleveland.com:

What could be happening (posted by wahooooo): 3 way trade and we get Stubbs, Bauer, and Corbin. Then deal Asdrubal to the Cardinals for Lynn and a pitching prospect. We will have added Bauer, Corbin, Lynn, plus the STL prospect. That sure helps the rotation and gives us some depth.

Benihana
12-11-2012, 06:21 PM
How would you rank Corcino, Cingrani, Bauer?

I ask because it is easy to envision a scenario where we could've gotten Choo and Bauer, while only giving up Stubbs + one of Cingrani/Corcino. Oh well. Gotta see glass as half full, or in the Reds case, 95% full!

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 06:26 PM
Quick question....how would people rate Asdrubal's defense? I don't get to see a bunch of the Tribe, but when I do he looks pretty pedestrian. The highlight reels speak differently, but when don't they?

Reds/Flyers Fan
12-11-2012, 06:27 PM
Dbacks fans don't seem too enthralled about either Cabrera or Gregorius, but if it's between them they prefer AC.

Benihana
12-11-2012, 06:31 PM
Dbacks fans don't seem too enthralled about either Cabrera or Gregorius, but if it's between them they prefer AC.

As they should. I believe DiDi is more Gookie than he is anything else.

He is a guy I am happy to trade, although I wonder if we would have been better suited getting Bauer (or even Upton) from ARI and sending other pitchers (Corcino or Cingrani) with Stubbs for Choo?

jojo
12-11-2012, 06:35 PM
Quick question....how would people rate Asdrubal's defense? I don't get to see a bunch of the Tribe, but when I do he looks pretty pedestrian. The highlight reels speak differently, but when don't they?

Choo in CF and Cabrera at short would be a serious defensive downgrade (both look like -10 defenders at those positions) based upon UZR estimates.

WVPacman
12-11-2012, 06:35 PM
hey im up for anything to get stubbs out od cincy.Im sure he is a nice guy but he needs a fresh new start with another team.I have always liked Choo!!

Wonderful Monds
12-11-2012, 06:36 PM
Choo in CF and Cabrera at short would be a serious defensive downgrade (both look like -10 defenders at those positions) based upon UZR estimates.

I would have been really surprised if the Reds were willing to go with Cabrera at SS.

Vottomatic
12-11-2012, 06:38 PM
I don't get why people think the Reds are trying to get Cabrera too. I don't see anything on the trade rumors that says that.

I thought it was just Arizona trying to get him through a 3-team trade?

I kinda like the first trade proposal of simply Stubbs, Gregorius for Choo. No harm done to the Reds.

Bill
12-11-2012, 06:39 PM
Not sure what the latest rumor is but Cabrera is a better 2B than a ss where he is average. Some writers in Cleveland say he has gotten fat and lazy.

Benihana
12-11-2012, 06:39 PM
I kinda like the first trade proposal of simply Stubbs, Gregorius for Choo. No harm done to the Reds.

I think just about everyone on this board likes that trade as well.

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 06:40 PM
I don't get why people think the Reds are trying to get Cabrera too. I don't see anything on the trade rumors that says that.

I thought it was just Arizona trying to get him through a 3-team trade?

I kinda like the first trade proposal of simply Stubbs, Gregorius for Choo. No harm done to the Reds.

I agree. But when people started mentioning Cabrera it got me wondering what people see in his defense. I was under the impression he was well below average at short. Jojo's confirming that it seems via numbers.

And just to clarify, there was a twitter post or something by a reporter that said something along the lines of "and Cabrera might be heading to the Reds too." And let's not forget, the original proposal was Stubbs & Didi for Choo and another position player from the Tribe. I'd assume a minor leaguer.

PuffyPig
12-11-2012, 06:43 PM
Who would make a better hypothetical defensive CF - J.Upton or Choo?


Neither is very good.

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 06:43 PM
How have we not heard anything from Twitter on this in awhile now? /nervous

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 06:44 PM
How have we not heard anything from Twitter on this in awhile now? /nervous

Simple. The Yankees are signing Youkilis and probably re-upping Ichiro. It's the Yankees...and they're the most important obviously. ;)

RedsManRick
12-11-2012, 06:44 PM
I don't really understand the Didi love myself. How many SS are there in the minors who fit in to that "can really pick it and will really be something if his bat pans out" category? It's not like Did has lit up the upper minors with his bat.

At some point, you only have 25 men on a roster with which you have to win the World Series. You don't let role players or fringe starters get in the way of significantly improving your ball club.

Brutus
12-11-2012, 06:45 PM
I wish the Cabrera thing had not been mentioned. I had my hopes up all high for the both of them. Now I'll have to be disappointed for 'settling' for Choo.

Either way, great deal if this is finalized. Terrific deal. Just wish the Cabrera stuff had not been thrown out there.

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 06:46 PM
I don't really understand the Didi love myself. How many SS are there in the minors who fit in to that "can really pick and will really be something if his bat pans out" category? It's not like Did has lit up the upper minors with his bat.

I agree with this, but I think the big thing to remember is how young he is at the AAA level. That's a pretty huge factor IMO with regards to his bat.

Gallen5862
12-11-2012, 06:46 PM
Here is a link to a diamondbacks board.
http://forum.diamondbacksbullpen.org/

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 06:50 PM
Nick Camino ‏@CaminoTribe

Nothing yet to report on #Indians RF Shin-Soo Choo, however a source confirmed that SS Asdrubal Cabrera will not be traded tonight.

RedRoser
12-11-2012, 06:51 PM
Thanks for the link, Gallen!

hebroncougar
12-11-2012, 06:51 PM
I agree with this, but I think the big thing to remember is how young he is at the AAA level. That's a pretty huge factor IMO with regards to his bat.

On top of that, has Didi ever hit lefties?

Vottomatic
12-11-2012, 06:53 PM
I'm hearing (voices in my head) Cozart, Stubbs, Corcino, Ondrusek for Cabrera, Choo, and Pestano.

Then the Reds are flipping Gregorius to the D-Backs for Bauer. :D

RedRoser
12-11-2012, 06:55 PM
I'm hearing (voices in my head) Cozart, Stubbs, Corcino, Ondrusek for Cabrera, Choo, and Pestano.

Then the Reds are flipping Gregorius to the D-Backs for Bauer. :D

Now THAT would be a Merry Christmas, indeed! :beerme:

MikeS21
12-11-2012, 06:55 PM
Meh, not that impressed with Choo. I'm just not on the "Dump Drew" bandwagon. I think there will be greater problems with the Reds than CF.

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 06:57 PM
I'm hearing (voices in my head) Cozart, Stubbs, Corcino, Ondrusek for Cabrera, Choo, and Pestano.

Then the Reds are flipping Gregorius to the D-Backs for Bauer. :D

Offensively, that's great. But we're winning with pitching and defense nowadays. I like his bat, but I really don't want to see Cabrera penciled in as our full-time shortstop. As far as I'm concerned, that will ALWAYS be a defense-first position.

Brutus
12-11-2012, 06:57 PM
Meh, not that impressed with Choo. I'm just not on the "Dump Drew" bandwagon. I think there will be greater problems with the Reds than CF.

.381 career OBP. What's not to like?

That's about a dream come true with regard to the Reds' top-of-the-order deficiency in getting people on base.

jojo
12-11-2012, 07:03 PM
I don't get why people think the Reds are trying to get Cabrera too. I don't see anything on the trade rumors that says that.

I thought it was just Arizona trying to get him through a 3-team trade?

I kinda like the first trade proposal of simply Stubbs, Gregorius for Choo. No harm done to the Reds.

Adding Cabrera doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

klw
12-11-2012, 07:03 PM
It is a shame that Stubbs is going in the deal. Choo and Stubbs would make a great platoon as Choo is not good vs. LHP, especially last year.

Career splits
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=choosh01&year=Career&t=b


Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+
vs RHP as LHB 629 2058 1759 540 124 15 70 296 70 20 257 408 .307 .400 .514 .914 904 34 27 0 15 26 15 .363 116
vs LHP as LHB 432 907 794 198 39 4 13 77 15 8 80 226 .249 .338 .358 .695 284 11 28 1 4 0 3 .331 66
vs LH Starter 190 168 767 648 94 177 41 5 11 81 13 7 95 162 .273 .378 .403 .781 261 10 18 0 6 9 3 .345 86
vs RH Starter 509 496 2198 1905 296 561 122 14 72 292 72 21 242 472 .294 .382 .487 .869 927 35 37 1 13 17 15 .356 105

Blitz Dorsey
12-11-2012, 07:04 PM
Meh, not that impressed with Choo. I'm just not on the "Dump Drew" bandwagon. I think there will be greater problems with the Reds than CF.

What are these problems you foresee other than CF/leadoff hitter?

Vottomatic
12-11-2012, 07:04 PM
I don't think alot of Reds fans begin to realize how bad our 1 and 2 hole hitters were last year, and probably the year before.

I'd bet money that batting Choo leadoff or second with BP up there too, that Votto will have alot of men on base this season unlike any season prior.

People just underestimate the value of OBP. Choo is the real deal. He's not a Jacoby Ellsbury one season wonder.

Vottomatic
12-11-2012, 07:08 PM
Looking at Stubbs vs. Choo. When healthy and playing around 150+ games each, Choo averages about 25 to 35 more walks per season.

Gallen5862
12-11-2012, 07:08 PM
Thanks for the link, Gallen!

Your welcome. Hopefully the trade goes through.

Reds/Flyers Fan
12-11-2012, 07:12 PM
Choo has already demonstrated how much he likes hitting in GABP. I think he'll like some of the other NL Central and NL east parks just as much.

PuffyPig
12-11-2012, 07:13 PM
I don't think alot of Reds fans begin to realize how bad our 1 and 2 hole hitters were last year, and probably the year before.

I'd bet money that batting Choo leadoff or second with BP up there too, that Votto will have alot of men on base this season unlike any season prior.

People just underestimate the value of OBP. Choo is the real deal. He's not a Jacoby Ellsbury one season wonder.


The way to really protect Votto is to have runners on base ahead of him. If they want to walk him then, that's how you score multiple runs.

cinreds21
12-11-2012, 07:16 PM
I like the deal, but it's a lot to give up for one year of Choo.

757690
12-11-2012, 07:17 PM
I don't think alot of Reds fans begin to realize how bad our 1 and 2 hole hitters were last year, and probably the year before.

I'd bet money that batting Choo leadoff or second with BP up there too, that Votto will have alot of men on base this season unlike any season prior.

People just underestimate the value of OBP. Choo is the real deal. He's not a Jacoby Ellsbury one season wonder.

I believe last year, around 75% of Votto's PA's came with the bases empty. Which is absurd for a number 3 hitter.

Brutus
12-11-2012, 07:18 PM
I like the deal, but it's a lot to give up for one year of Choo.

Meh. I don't think the Reds are really giving anything up. Stubbs was finished as far as the Reds' long-term plans are concerned. And to be honest, I never saw the fascination over Gregorious.

If you had asked me what it would take to acquire Choo, I would assume a LOT more than this.

Vottomatic
12-11-2012, 07:18 PM
If Cabrera is included, not sure how I feel about it. Definitely improves the offense. But definitely weakens the D.

I'd be surprised if the Reds were willing to take on that much payroll.

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 07:19 PM
If Cabrera is included, not sure how I feel about it. Definitely improves the offense. But definitely weakens the D.

I'd be surprised if the Reds were willing to take on that much payroll.

He's not included. That much we know sure as s...

Vottomatic
12-11-2012, 07:20 PM
Meh. I don't think the Reds are really giving anything up. Stubbs was finished as far as the Reds' long-term plans are concerned. And to be honest, I never saw the fascination over Gregorious.

If you had asked me what it would take to acquire Choo, I would assume a LOT more than this.

I agree. I've never thought of Gregorius as anything more than a utility guy with a great glove. Janish-lite.

My I-Phone just had a pop-up update from Cincinnati Baseball stating what we all know......"Reds close to trading for Choo".

Old news, but interesting that it just popped up on my phone.

Reds/Flyers Fan
12-11-2012, 07:20 PM
He's not included. That much we know sure as s...

Based on one tweet?

kaldaniels
12-11-2012, 07:22 PM
I don't really understand the Didi love myself. How many SS are there in the minors who fit in to that "can really pick it and will really be something if his bat pans out" category? It's not like Did has lit up the upper minors with his bat.

At some point, you only have 25 men on a roster with which you have to win the World Series. You don't let role players or fringe starters get in the way of significantly improving your ball club.

With you here, Rick. Gotta have a little stick.

Rojo
12-11-2012, 07:27 PM
Reds also may get another player. Any guesses? Jason Donald?

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 07:30 PM
Okay, didn't realize this. 4 of the Indians top 5 prospects....shortstops. Interesting.

Blitz Dorsey
12-11-2012, 07:30 PM
I can't wait for this to be final. I bet we don't hear until tomorrow though.

Benihana
12-11-2012, 07:32 PM
Reds also may get another player. Any guesses? Jason Donald?

At this point, I'd take Tony Wolters as the future heir to 2B.

Indians will have DiDi + Lindor + Cabrera for their MI. Wolters would seem expendable and the Reds have nothing left in the minors MI.

757690
12-11-2012, 07:36 PM
Reds also may get another player. Any guesses? Jason Donald?

I would like it to be one of their lefty relievers.

Vottomatic
12-11-2012, 07:37 PM
Breaking News: Deadly mall shooting in Oregon

Cedric
12-11-2012, 07:43 PM
I like the trade but I think a few people are selling Didi short. He's a legit top 100 prospect with great tools. There isn't much more valuable in the post steroid era than a shortstop with a high ceiling.

marcshoe
12-11-2012, 07:45 PM
Internet comes back on and I see this. Wow. A real obp guy to lead off. This would be more than I hoped for.

kaldaniels
12-11-2012, 07:47 PM
Walt sure runs a tight-lipped crew.

Brutus
12-11-2012, 07:47 PM
I like the trade but I think a few people are selling Didi short. He's a legit top 100 prospect with great tools. There isn't much more valuable in the post steroid era than a shortstop with a high ceiling.

So far, his production translates to be a league average offensive shortstop. Average is as average does :0)

Blitz Dorsey
12-11-2012, 07:48 PM
Walt sure runs a tight-lipped crew.

I love it. But I will give some of our fellow RedsZoners credit. I heard Choo brought up many times as a possible legit trade option for the Reds by posters on here. I basically discounted said talk. I was wrong ... and happy to be so.

Brutus
12-11-2012, 07:49 PM
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
Three-team trade, per source, will look like this: Choo, Jason Donald to #Reds, Gregorius to #Diamondbacks, Stubbs, AZ pitcher to #Indians.

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 07:50 PM
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal

Corbin, Skaggs and Bauer were among #Diamondbacks pitchers who were in play. #Indians would get one in this deal; Skaggs unlikely.

Blitz Dorsey
12-11-2012, 07:51 PM
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
Three-team trade, per source, will look like this: Choo, Jason Donald to #Reds, Gregorius to #Diamondbacks, Stubbs, AZ pitcher to #Indians.

Nice. Donald will be an improvement over Valdez as the backup middle infielder.

Brutus
12-11-2012, 07:52 PM
Nice. Donald will be an improvement over Valdez as the backup middle infielder.

It will be interesting to see if they get the 2011 Donald or the 2012 Donald. If he plays more like the 2011 Donald, it's a total steal. I suppose it's more likely he'll be the 2010 Donald, which splits the difference.

chicoruiz
12-11-2012, 07:53 PM
For what it's worth, Donald is also a Boras client...

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 07:56 PM
John Fay ‏@johnfayman

Donald hit .202/.246/.282 with Indians and .277/.365/.441 in AAA. Could fill utility role. #reds

Benihana
12-11-2012, 07:56 PM
If it's Bauer or Skaggs, I may have preferred to have acquire the AZ pitcher directly for DiDi.

If it's Corbin, I think it's a very good trade for all three teams.

Donald was a guy the Reds were talking about acquiring from Philly back at the 09 deadline when he was a prospect. Instead the Indians acquired him in the Cliff Lee package. Probably delays Henry Rodriguez's big league debut.

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 07:57 PM
Reds also may get another player. Any guesses? Jason Donald?

Wow. Nicely done Rojo.

Benihana
12-11-2012, 07:58 PM
Wow. Nicely done Rojo.

It's the week of Los Rojos.

Gallen5862
12-11-2012, 07:58 PM
How many option years does Jason Donald have left?

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 07:59 PM
If it's Bauer or Skaggs, I may have preferred to have acquire the AZ pitcher directly for DiDi.

If it's Corbin, I think it's a very good trade for all three teams.

Donald was a guy the Reds were talking about acquiring from Philly back at the 09 deadline when he was a prospect. Instead the Indians acquired him in the Cliff Lee package. Probably delays Henry Rodriguez's big league debut.

I red on Facebook that Bauer is in the deal. Just written by some random guy, though. So take it FWIW.

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 07:59 PM
How many option years does Jason Donald have left?

Free agent in 2017

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 07:59 PM
Just realized I didnt answer your question. :lol:

Tom Servo
12-11-2012, 08:00 PM
Donald seems like a solid utility guy, much better than Burriss.

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 08:01 PM
Burriss? Did I miss a signing? Emmanuel Burriss?

AmarilloRed
12-11-2012, 08:03 PM
Jack Magruder‏@JackMagruder

#Dbacks will get more than one player in multi-team deal with Cincy, Cleveland, source said.

Tommyjohn25
12-11-2012, 08:04 PM
LOVE this deal.

reds1869
12-11-2012, 08:04 PM
Spectacular if the three team deal including Donald is a reality.

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 08:05 PM
Burriss? Did I miss a signing? Emmanuel Burriss?

Yes.


June 6, 2006: Drafted by the San Francisco Giants in the 1st round (33rd pick) of the 2006 amateur draft. Player signed June 15, 2006.
November 8, 2012: Granted Free Agency.
November 14, 2012: Signed as a Free Agent with the Cincinnati Reds.

Tom Servo
12-11-2012, 08:05 PM
Burriss? Did I miss a signing? Emmanuel Burriss?
Yep.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99412

westofyou
12-11-2012, 08:07 PM
Breaking News: Deadly mall shooting in Oregon

That's my source for clothes!

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 08:07 PM
paul hoynes ‏@hoynsie

#Indians deal with Reds and Arizona could include between 7 and 9 players.

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 08:07 PM
Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN

Talent evaluators rave about glove of Didi Gregorius, SS who would go to Ariz. in 3-way trade. Some project him as regular, others utility.

kaldaniels
12-11-2012, 08:09 PM
Negative Fay says the Reds can't extend Choo.

I know it's probably true but man he needs to ease up on the payroll thing.

Benihana
12-11-2012, 08:09 PM
paul hoynes ‏@hoynsie

#Indians deal with Reds and Arizona could include between 7 and 9 players.

Uh-oh, prepare for pandemonium down on the minor league forum as there will be bloodshed if the Reds include their 18th-ranked prospect.

Brutus
12-11-2012, 08:09 PM
Ludwick, Choo, Donald, Phillips, Judy and possibly Hannahan... Reds loading up on former Indians players/farmhands.

Tommyjohn25
12-11-2012, 08:10 PM
Fay never thinks the Reds are going to do anything, ever.

reds44
12-11-2012, 08:10 PM
Position players:

Hanigan
Mes

Votto
Phillips
Cozart
Frazier
Burris
Donald

Ludwick
Choo
Bruce
Heisey
Paul

Probably what you're looking at for position players right now.

Blitz Dorsey
12-11-2012, 08:11 PM
Negative Fay says the Reds can't extend Choo.

I know it's probably true but man he needs to ease up on the payroll thing.

Why would they even want to considering ...

1. Billy Hamilton is the CF of the future and Jay Bruce is the RF of the present and future. Even LF is locked up for 2 more years with Ludwick (not that Choo has ever played LF).

2. Choo will want a boatload of money for a LTC and the Reds wouldn't be able to do that on the heels of the Votto and Phillips deals.

I'm perfectly fine with this being a one-year stop-gap measure. Many, myself included, were hoping for a one-year rental of Bourn. Course, that wouldn't have costed us Gregorius.

Brutus
12-11-2012, 08:12 PM
Position players:

Hanigan
Mes

Votto
Phillips
Cozart
Frazier
Burris
Donald

Ludwick
Choo
Bruce
Heisey
Paul

Probably what you're looking at for position players right now.

Wasn't Burris a minor league deal? It sounds like Hannahan will be the other infielder when all is said and done.

westofyou
12-11-2012, 08:12 PM
Fay never thinks the Reds are going to do anything, ever.

Except let him in the booth and chat up Marty

Reds/Flyers Fan
12-11-2012, 08:12 PM
Fay never thinks the Reds are going to do anything, ever.

It's almost cliche anymore. I don't pay the slightest attention to what he says when it comes to payroll.

kaldaniels
12-11-2012, 08:16 PM
Why would they even want to considering ...

1. Billy Hamilton is the CF of the future and Jay Bruce is the RF of the present and future. Even LF is locked up for 2 more years with Ludwick (not that Choo has ever played LF).

2. Choo will want a boatload of money for a LTC and the Reds wouldn't be able to do that on the heels of the Votto and Phillips deals.

I'm perfectly fine with this being a one-year stop-gap measure. Many, myself included, were hoping for a one-year rental of Bourn. Course, that wouldn't have costed us Gregorius.

I agree but he's the reporter who cried wolf.

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 08:18 PM
Why would they even want to considering ...

1. Billy Hamilton is the CF of the future and Jay Bruce is the RF of the present and future. Even LF is locked up for 2 more years with Ludwick (not that Choo has ever played LF).

2. Choo will want a boatload of money for a LTC and the Reds wouldn't be able to do that on the heels of the Votto and Phillips deals.

I'm perfectly fine with this being a one-year stop-gap measure. Many, myself included, were hoping for a one-year rental of Bourn. Course, that wouldn't have costed us Gregorius.

Because Ludwick could become a 4th outfielder if Choo's resigned and Hamiton comes up. Ryan would be an awfully good bat off the bench. And simply put, Choo fills the need better. FAR better. But, that being said, I highly doubt he gets extended.

Blitz Dorsey
12-11-2012, 08:19 PM
Because Ludwick could become a 4th outfielder if Choo's resigned and Hamiton comes up. Ryan would be an awfully good bat off the bench. And simply put, Choo fills the need better. FAR better. But, that being said, I highly doubt he gets extended.

I think with Choo being a Boras client, you're being very optimistic even saying "highly doubt." Haha. I hear you though and you make a good point.

reds44
12-11-2012, 08:20 PM
I don't think they'll resign Choo, but I could see it playing out where the Reds want to re-sign him to play LF after this year.

redsmetz
12-11-2012, 08:21 PM
OK, just back from the Lager House for my birthday. Can someone bring me up to date on where exactly things stand (more or less)? Thanks.

BTW, my wife gave me a nice 1932 Reds replica hat for my birthday. Google it - it's a funky looking "C" that I fell in love with when I saw it.

Benihana
12-11-2012, 08:22 PM
I don't think they'll resign Choo, but I could see it playing out where the Reds want to re-sign him to play LF after this year.

And what, trade Ludwick to the Yankees?

Reds/Flyers Fan
12-11-2012, 08:22 PM
Why would they even want to considering ...

1. Billy Hamilton is the CF of the future and Jay Bruce is the RF of the present and future. Even LF is locked up for 2 more years with Ludwick (not that Choo has ever played LF).

2. Choo will want a boatload of money for a LTC and the Reds wouldn't be able to do that on the heels of the Votto and Phillips deals.

I'm perfectly fine with this being a one-year stop-gap measure. Many, myself included, were hoping for a one-year rental of Bourn. Course, that wouldn't have costed us Gregorius.

How do we know this? The Reds supposedly wouldn't be able to extend BP on the heels of Votto either. And there was nothing for Votto on the heels of Cueto. And there was nothing for Cueto on the heels of Bruce.

And there was nothing for Chapman to even be in the bidding for him in the first place.

I'm done being surprised by what this team finds a way to do.

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 08:26 PM
OK, just back from the Lager House for my birthday. Can someone bring me up to date on where exactly things stand (more or less)? Thanks.

BTW, my wife gave me a nice 1932 Reds replica hat for my birthday. Google it - it's a funky looking "C" that I fell in love with when I saw it.

Everything seems to be a done deal so far. Probably announced tomorrow, pending physicals. Only mystery is which pitching prospects ARI is shipping to CLE.

marcshoe
12-11-2012, 08:26 PM
So, does this mean the Reds win the Ben Broussard deal? ;)

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 08:29 PM
OK, just back from the Lager House for my birthday. Can someone bring me up to date on where exactly things stand (more or less)? Thanks.

BTW, my wife gave me a nice 1932 Reds replica hat for my birthday. Google it - it's a funky looking "C" that I fell in love with when I saw it.

Somebody sneezed on Jocketty's shin and said "ah-choo" and the press immediately started twittering about Azdrubel Cabrera going to the Royals for Myers. That got shot down quickly as Kate Upton was recently seen dating Myers and danced the Dougie to prove it. Unfortunately, many assumed that the Dougie referred to Dougdirt who was still insisting that Didi Gregorious was a top 100 prospect. That inflamed the know-it-all media types and they immediately began a twitter campaign to belittle Doug. Doug was so upset he kicked the wall and stubbed his toe. This of course set off the frenzied idea of Drew Stubbs coming up with a new batting stance where he taps his toe. Intrigued, the Indians GM calls Walt Jocketty and offers Shin Soo-Choo and Jason Donald to the Reds for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious. Not thrilled with Gregorious, the Tribe will then flip Didi to the Snakes for a bunch of kids with powerful arms.

Well, that's the basics of it. Sort of. ;)

Bill
12-11-2012, 08:31 PM
Donald as been injury prone in the past. Can play around the infield, came up as a SS. Ok bat. Decent utility guy to have around.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 08:33 PM
Isn't Jason Donald most well known for breaking up Armando Galarraga's perfect game in that call that the ump botched?

Bill
12-11-2012, 08:39 PM
I believe it was Donald.

Donald has also added the OF to his resume, in fact he can play a little CF now. There we go.

lollipopcurve
12-11-2012, 08:43 PM
I'm lukewarm on this. Love Choo, but as a rental that's a problem. Didi, in some kind of package, could have led a package to Arizona for more, if reports are to be believed.

Walt has a history of extending vets he trades for. But it sure seems like the $$$ will be -- and should be -- there for Bailey and Latos first. With Ludwick on a two-year deal in LF and Hamilton getting close, I don't see how Choo fits past 2013. (I guess the uncounted asset would be the first rounder they'd cop in 2014 if they offer Choo.)

Surprised with the short-term nature of this deal. I guess I'm hoping Choo ultimately replaces Ludwick in LF come 2014. But I doubt it happens.

Donald has been a lesser player than I thought he would be. Seems the Reds have liked him for a while, so maybe there's more there. Will withhold judgment.

On the flip side, nice vote of confidence for Cozart. Thought he was super solid for a rookie. Would like to see some improvement at the dish in 2014 and beyond. He's the guy now.

Pumped for the 2013 lineup now. Let's hope Choo knows how to play for big money.

M2
12-11-2012, 08:43 PM
Fay never thinks the Reds are going to do anything, ever.

It's pure work avoidance.

Always Red
12-11-2012, 08:43 PM
Donald has also added the OF to his resume, in fact he can play a little CF now. There we go.

Well, there we go - someone who can play CF. I love Choo leading off, but am not sure about he or Bruce in CF.

dougdirt
12-11-2012, 08:43 PM
So far, his production translates to be a league average offensive shortstop. Average is as average does :0)

Sure. Plus defense.

so average offense and plus defense = above-average shortstop. That is pretty darn valuable, no?

Rojo
12-11-2012, 08:43 PM
Wow. Nicely done Rojo.

Yeah, not a lucky guess at all.

Actually I picked Donald because, with the Burriss signing, I figured WJ's crowd-sourcing for a back-up infielder.

RedsManRick
12-11-2012, 08:44 PM
Reds will offer Choo a qualifying offer and get draft pick comp when he walks next Winter.

Benihana
12-11-2012, 08:45 PM
Can't believe the Dbacks are willing to trade Trevor Bauer for DiDi Gregorius. Wow.

dougdirt
12-11-2012, 08:46 PM
Can't believe the Dbacks are willing to trade Trevor Bauer for DiDi Gregorius. Wow.

Is that the deal? The Indians aren't sending anything else that way?

I have heard rumblings that Bauer wasn't the easiest guy to coach in the world, but you would think he had a little more value than Didi.

cinreds21
12-11-2012, 08:46 PM
Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS
choo goes to #reds. done deal.

reds44
12-11-2012, 08:46 PM
It's official.

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS
choo goes to #reds. done deal.

edabbs44
12-11-2012, 08:47 PM
Can't believe the Dbacks are willing to trade Trevor Bauer for DiDi Gregorius. Wow.

That's not happening like that.

Doc. Scott
12-11-2012, 08:47 PM
Would anyone have rather traded DiDi for Bauer straight up?

Not saying I would, just asking...

Heck yeah I would. No question.

Tom Servo
12-11-2012, 08:48 PM
Choooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

cinreds21
12-11-2012, 08:48 PM
Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS
#reds also get jason donald in choo deal. working on rest. theres a lot more.

Brutus
12-11-2012, 08:50 PM
Sure. Plus defense.

so average offense and plus defense = above-average shortstop. That is pretty darn valuable, no?

There are varying levels of 'above average' though. Valuable, yes. How valuable... that's the part that's debatable. Some see him as a utility player based on scouting reports, so there is some generosity in even calling him above average.

Benihana
12-11-2012, 08:51 PM
Prediction: Reds will give up at least one additional minor leaguer some Redszoners will lament giving up

Brutus
12-11-2012, 08:51 PM
I like Bauer, but the Reds don't need him. They need Choo.

Tom Servo
12-11-2012, 08:52 PM
Prediction: Reds will give up at least one additional minor leaguer some Redszoners will lament giving up
Better hope they are not a future Cy Young Award winner.

Benihana
12-11-2012, 08:52 PM
I like Bauer, but the Reds don't need him. They need Choo.

Agree BUT then they could trade some of their pitching excess (Leake, Corcino, Cingrani) for Fowler or Upton. Oh well, I'm still quite happy with Choo.

Reds Fanatic
12-11-2012, 08:52 PM
the latest from Heyman:


Jon Heyman‏@JonHeymanCBS

#reds also get jason donald in choo deal. working on rest. theres a lot more.

mdccclxix
12-11-2012, 08:52 PM
Congrats Reds fans, this is a helluva day!

I'll type the lineup for myself, but we all know it by heart already:

Choo
BP
Votto
Luddy
Bruce
Frazier
Cozart
Hanniraco

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 08:52 PM
Prediction: Reds will give up at least one additional minor leaguer some Redszoners will lament giving up

No! Not Juan Additional?!? I had high hopes for him. :(

nemesis
12-11-2012, 08:52 PM
Seems like everytime we make a deal with Cleveland it works out in our favor. I am all on board...

Graves and parts for Smiley
Casey for Burba
Phillips for Stevens
Choo for Stubbs and DiDi

all in recent memory... Who else?

dougdirt
12-11-2012, 08:52 PM
There are varying levels of 'above average' though. Valuable, yes. How valuable... that's the part that's debatable. Some see him as a utility player based on scouting reports, so there is some generosity in even calling him above average.

Sure. And some see him as a second division starter, which pans out as above-average in most cases. He is a prospect for a reason. We aren't entirely sure what he is yet. But if he is going to be a league average bat, he is going to be a 3.5-4 win player.

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 08:53 PM
Bye Drew. Best of luck to you and your new toe tap.

Reds Fanatic
12-11-2012, 08:53 PM
I love the deal. I don't know how to process the Reds having a legitimate leadoff hitter. It has been so long.

Benihana
12-11-2012, 08:54 PM
Seems like everytime we make a deal with Cleveland it works out in our favor. I am all on board...

Graves and parts for Smiley
Casey for Burba
Phillips for Stevens
Choo for Stubbs and DiDi

all in recent memory... Who else?

Reggie Jefferson for Tim Costo

dougdirt
12-11-2012, 08:54 PM
I love the deal. I don't know how to process the Reds having a legitimate leadoff hitter. It has been so long.

By wondering if he can play center field of course.

reds44
12-11-2012, 08:55 PM
I think Bruce should be the one playing CF.

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 08:55 PM
STOP THE PRESSES -

JIM BOWDEN ‏@JimBowdenESPNxm

Choo above avg FLD in RF plus arm plus speed plus bat plus power and a GREAT kid solid move by Jocketty

Bowden likes the deal. This scares me.

dougdirt
12-11-2012, 08:55 PM
I think Bruce should be the one playing CF.

So does Bruce then bat leadoff? :eek:

Tom Servo
12-11-2012, 08:56 PM
Not that it effects us anymore since we have our 3 outfielders, but jeez, where does this leave Michael Bourn?

Superdude
12-11-2012, 08:56 PM
I love the deal. I don't know how to process the Reds having a legitimate leadoff hitter. It has been so long.

It goes even beyond getting a capable leadoff hitter. I wouldn't be surprised if Choo was our second best bat next season. Now I'll just hope and pray Jocketty's right in assuming Choo won't make a fool of himself in center.

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 08:57 PM
Not that it effects us anymore since we have our 3 outfielders, but jeez, where does this leave Michael Bourn?

TEX if they don't sign Hamilton? Bah, who are we kidding...Dodgers will probably sign him to pinch hit. :p

Doc. Scott
12-11-2012, 08:57 PM
It's pure work avoidance.

Agreed. I miss C. Trent.

nemesis
12-11-2012, 08:58 PM
Reggie Jefferson for Tim Costo

Was it also Broussard for Brantley?

cinreds21
12-11-2012, 08:59 PM
Tony Lastoria ‏@TonyIPI
No confirmation yet, but hearing the Indians may have landed Bauer.

RED VAN HOT
12-11-2012, 08:59 PM
Not sure where the love comes from. Reds just obtained a one year rental of a corner OF who can lead off against RHP only. This leaves more questions to me than before the trade. Who will play CF? Choo? Bruce? Heisey? Ludwick hits RHP as well as LHP. Does he platoon with Choo? Seems to me that Ludwick needs to play against both and bat fourth. I hope there is another trade coming. I don't see how this improves the team.

Patrick Bateman
12-11-2012, 08:59 PM
Sad to see Stubbs go. An undervalued guy that played a very visually frustrating game. Unfortunately, he's going to have a short shelf life if he can't figure out how to make contact with righties to some degree. Once his speed turns away from elite, he wont have much. I hope the best for him.

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 08:59 PM
paul hoynes ‏@hoynsie

GM Chris Antonetti just told Jason Donald that he and Choo have been traded to the Reds. #indians.

nemesis
12-11-2012, 09:00 PM
Good for Cleveland. They are taking the right steps in the right direction to rebuild that franchise.

Brutus
12-11-2012, 09:01 PM
Not sure where the love comes from. Reds just obtained a one year rental of a corner OF who can lead off against RHP only. This leaves more questions to me than before the trade. Who will play CF? Choo? Bruce? Heisey? Ludwick hits RHP as well as LHP. Does he platoon with Choo? Seems to me that Ludwick needs to play against both and bat fourth. I hope there is another trade coming. I don't see how this improves the team.

The guy had an .815 OPS last year in spite of his splits. Look what Reds' CFs did at the position last season. It's a clear-cut improvement.

cinreds21
12-11-2012, 09:01 PM
Reds might be getting LHP Tony Sipp

reds44
12-11-2012, 09:02 PM
Not sure where the love comes from. Reds just obtained a one year rental of a corner OF who can lead off against RHP only. This leaves more questions to me than before the trade. Who will play CF? Choo? Bruce? Heisey? Ludwick hits RHP as well as LHP. Does he platoon with Choo? Seems to me that Ludwick needs to play against both and bat fourth. I hope there is another trade coming. I don't see how this improves the team.
Choo has a career slash line of .289/.381/.465/.847. He had an OBP of .373 last year. He's a fantastic get. There's nothing not to love.

cinreds21
12-11-2012, 09:02 PM
Didi Gregorius ‏@DidiG18
I want to thank the @Reds nd the fans for everything :) but Now I'm heading to the Dbacks... Same life new team :D

M2
12-11-2012, 09:03 PM
Huge move by the Reds. Upgrading Stubbs was critical.

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 09:03 PM
Reds maybe getting another player, too.

Blitz Dorsey
12-11-2012, 09:04 PM
Reds might be getting LHP Tony Sipp

Wow, that's interesting. Sipp would be a nice arm out of the 'pen. Solid numbers for the Tribe:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7949

nemesis
12-11-2012, 09:04 PM
Not sure where the love comes from. Reds just obtained a one year rental of a corner OF who can lead off against RHP only.

Career OPS of .344 against LHP. Never below .338. Has no real power against LHP but still gets on base at a very acceptable clip.

I'll also take in to consideration that compensation pick that comes along with him. So in reality getting another high ceiling player in return even when you lose Choo. As far a the D goes, I expect him or Bruce to be "serviceable"...

Superdude
12-11-2012, 09:04 PM
Tony Lastoria ‏@TonyIPI
No confirmation yet, but hearing the Indians may have landed Bauer.


Really? We have no place for Bauer, but that is quite a haul for Didi.

M2
12-11-2012, 09:04 PM
Reds might be getting LHP Tony Sipp

Groovy if it happens, but source?

reds44
12-11-2012, 09:05 PM
Sipp would be a perfect fit.

kaldaniels
12-11-2012, 09:05 PM
When it comes down to it, the offense part of baseball is a one-on-one game. But I can't help but feel Choo may be the missing piece that makes this an explosive lineup, beyond the metrics.

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 09:05 PM
Didi Gregorius ‏@DidiG18
I want to thank the @Reds nd the fans for everything but Now I'm heading to the Dbacks... Same life new team

Classy. Best of luck to Didi too.

Always Red
12-11-2012, 09:05 PM
I will miss watching Stubbs run down balls in the gap, but not weakly waving at curves in the dirt.

Always Red
12-11-2012, 09:06 PM
By wondering if he can play center field of course.

So, can he?

kaldaniels
12-11-2012, 09:06 PM
Can they get Korean Reds jerseys made in time for the season? :D

westofyou
12-11-2012, 09:07 PM
Not sure where the love comes from. Reds just obtained a one year rental of a corner OF who can lead off against RHP only. This leaves more questions to me than before the trade. Who will play CF? Choo? Bruce? Heisey? Ludwick hits RHP as well as LHP. Does he platoon with Choo? Seems to me that Ludwick needs to play against both and bat fourth. I hope there is another trade coming. I don't see how this improves the team.

Bases = runs

dougdirt
12-11-2012, 09:07 PM
So, can he?

I have my doubts. Guys don't generally start playing center at age 30 and actually being able to play it, particularly after being corner outfielders (versus maybe a shortstop or second baseman making the transition out there at 30).

Superdude
12-11-2012, 09:07 PM
When it comes down to it, the offense part of baseball is a one-on-one game. But I can't help but feel Choo may be the missing piece that makes this an explosive lineup, beyond the metrics.

I'm thinking the same thing. Drop Phillips and Choo in front of Votto/Ludwick/Bruce and I think this offense becomes a serious force.

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 09:07 PM
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal

Source: #Diamondbacks' Shaw, Albers among those going to #Indians. A. Cabrera COULD go to #Diamondbacks, with Gregorius staying in Cleveland

westofyou
12-11-2012, 09:07 PM
I will miss watching Stubbs run down balls in the gap, but not weakly waving at curves in the dirt.

I miss Eddie Milner less each year for he same reasons

Doc. Scott
12-11-2012, 09:08 PM
Choo has a career slash line of .289/.381/.465/.847. He had an OBP of .373 last year. He's a fantastic get. There's nothing not to love.

Well, one year of him isn't the greatest.

jojo
12-11-2012, 09:08 PM
Assuming Stubbs doesnt transform into something different, switching Stubbs for Choo looks like a 2 WAR upgrade.

This is exactly the type of move a team positioned to make a serious run at a world seiries should make...

nemesis
12-11-2012, 09:08 PM
I'm thinking the same thing. Dropping Phillips and Choo in front of Votto/Ludwick/Bruce and I think this offense becomes a serious force.



Over / Under on Number of Phillips this year?

I'll say 31.5.

reds44
12-11-2012, 09:08 PM
Didi may not be going to Arizona.

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
Source: #Diamondbacks' Shaw, Albers among those going to #Indians. A. Cabrera COULD go to #Diamondbacks, with Gregorius staying in Cleveland

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 09:08 PM
Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan

Source: Diamondbacks would send pitcher Trevor Bauer to Cleveland as part of the proposed three-way trade.

Blitz Dorsey
12-11-2012, 09:09 PM
Celebrate good times, c'mon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwjfUFyY6M

reds44
12-11-2012, 09:09 PM
Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN
The Indians are going to get Bauer in the deal with the Diamondbacks.

Brutus
12-11-2012, 09:09 PM
Didi may not be going to Arizona.

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
Source: #Diamondbacks' Shaw, Albers among those going to #Indians. A. Cabrera COULD go to #Diamondbacks, with Gregorius staying in Cleveland

Someone better tell Didi before he starts packing his backs haha

westofyou
12-11-2012, 09:09 PM
I have my doubts. Guys don't generally start playing center at age 30 and actually being able to play it, particularly after being corner outfielders (versus maybe a shortstop or second baseman making the transition out there at 30).

It's a gamble, how it's played will be interesting

Kc61
12-11-2012, 09:09 PM
Not sure where the love comes from. Reds just obtained a one year rental of a corner OF who can lead off against RHP only. This leaves more questions to me than before the trade. Who will play CF? Choo? Bruce? Heisey? Ludwick hits RHP as well as LHP. Does he platoon with Choo? Seems to me that Ludwick needs to play against both and bat fourth. I hope there is another trade coming. I don't see how this improves the team.

Last year the Reds had 4033 at bats against righties.
Last year the Reds had 1444 at bats against lefties.

By my math (always debatable) the Reds faced righties 73.63% of the time.

A player like Choo who kills right hand pitching is important. On a team like the Reds, which had a .710 OPS against righties last year, he is golden.

Tom Servo
12-11-2012, 09:10 PM
Can they get Korean Reds jerseys made in time for the season? :D
I want my 레즈 jersey

Bill
12-11-2012, 09:10 PM
Didn't Choo play CF in the minors, if memory serves?

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 09:11 PM
Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi

Massive disruption for Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald: They must now park in different lot at the all-Ohio spring complex in Goodyear.

:lol:

Brutus
12-11-2012, 09:12 PM
I want my 레즈 jersey

Everytime I think of Choo, I want to say "you have no... you have no marbles."

cinreds21
12-11-2012, 09:12 PM
Zack Meisel ‏@ZackMeisel
Indians will end up with Trevor Bauer, Drew Stubbs and relievers Bryan Shaw and Matt Albers. Will part w/ Choo, Sipp, Lars Anderson.

Bet the Reds get Lars lol

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 09:13 PM
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal

In other words, false alarm on Asdrubal. He is NOT in the deal.

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 09:14 PM
Really? We have no place for Bauer, but that is quite a haul for Didi.

I'd assume the Snakes will be getting something from the Tribe too.

Reds Fanatic
12-11-2012, 09:14 PM
Choo's career numbers at GABP: OPS of 1.048 with 4 HRs in 36 ABs.

Also he does play against lefties. His numbers are much better against RHP but I don't see him sitting against all lefties.

Career he has a .307 AVG with OPS of .914 against RHP and a .249 AVG with OPS of .695 against LHP. Obviously much stronger against RHP and his numbers last year were really bad against lefties much worse than in the past.

JaxRed
12-11-2012, 09:14 PM
If Dbacks would have traded Bauer for Gregorius......I"d rather have done that deal

cinreds21
12-11-2012, 09:15 PM
Steve Gilbert ‏@SteveGilbertMLB
LHP Tony Sipp and 1B/OF Lars Anderson also going to #Dbacks

Damnit.

Brutus
12-11-2012, 09:16 PM
If Dbacks would have traded Bauer for Gregorius......I"d rather have done that deal

Can Bauer hit leadoff for the Reds this year?

edabbs44
12-11-2012, 09:16 PM
For some reason I feel like Cincy gave up more. Or Cleveland I guess, edit.

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 09:16 PM
Cleveland Indians ‏@tribeinsider

...ARI acq. INF Didi Gregorius (from CIN) & LHP Tony Sipp (from CLE), while CIN acq. OF Shin-Soo Choo, INF Jason Donald and cash (from CLE)

jojo
12-11-2012, 09:16 PM
Choo's career numbers at GABP: OPS of 1.048 with 4 HRs in 36 ABs.

Also he does play against lefties. His numbers are much better against RHP but I don't see him sitting against all lefties.

Career he has a .307 AVG with OPS of .914 against RHP and a .249 AVG with OPS of .695 against LHP. Obviously much stronger against RHP and his numbers last year were really bad against lefties much worse than in the past.

Earl Weaver would know what to do.

Benihana
12-11-2012, 09:17 PM
If Dbacks would have traded Bauer for Gregorius......I"d rather have done that deal

Yep me too. Oh well, still very happy with Choo.

Reds Fanatic
12-11-2012, 09:17 PM
Jon Morosi‏@jonmorosi

OFFICIAL: #Dbacks get SS Didi Gregorius, LHP Tony Sipp & 1B Lars Anderson from #Indians for RHPs Trevor Bauer, Matt Albers and Bryan Shaw.

Tom Servo
12-11-2012, 09:17 PM
Pile O' Cash is back with the Reds!

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 09:17 PM
Didi may not be going to Arizona.

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
Source: #Diamondbacks' Shaw, Albers among those going to #Indians. A. Cabrera COULD go to #Diamondbacks, with Gregorius staying in Cleveland

I'd assume that he IS. Didi himself tweeted that he was. I'd assume they'd tell the players BEFORE the media.

cinreds21
12-11-2012, 09:17 PM
I really wanted Sipp.

guttle11
12-11-2012, 09:18 PM
Bless you, Indians.

Looking forward to getting a peek at Choo.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 09:18 PM
Cleveland Indians ‏@tribeinsider

...ARI acq. INF Didi Gregorius (from CIN) & LHP Tony Sipp (from CLE), while CIN acq. OF Shin-Soo Choo, INF Jason Donald and cash (from CLE)

Reds got cash, too? How much? It would be interesting if their one-year Choo rental is also at a serious discount...

Can I just say that this move has "Jocketty" written all over it? Talk about a big game hunter. Still remember that from a Cards forum post written about him at the time the Reds got him. And boy oh boy, is it ever true!

Playadlc
12-11-2012, 09:19 PM
This is exciting stuff. It's going to be a lot of fun watching Choo and Bruce throw the ball in the OF.

Can't believe this deal is actually going to happen.

buckeyenut
12-11-2012, 09:19 PM
Totally. Actually, Choo could be a potential candidate to hit behind Joey as well, couldn't he? I know lineup needs would probably dictate that he hit earlier -- but his bat is potent enough to provide protection as well.
While choos bat might be good enough, I think it might only happen when ludwick sits. Your normal lineup is going to be
Choo
Phillips
Votto
Ludwick
Bruce
Frazier
Hanigan/mesaraco
Cozart

With our pitching that is a championship lineup

RedEye
12-11-2012, 09:19 PM
I'd assume that he IS. Didi himself tweeted that he was. I'd assume they'd tell the players BEFORE the media.

Well, maybe he WAS as far as the Reds were concerned. Remember that the Reds-Indians part of the deal seems to have been completed first. Maybe the Indians-DBacks part took more time?

cinreds21
12-11-2012, 09:20 PM
So it's official that the Reds only got Choo and Donald.

reds44
12-11-2012, 09:20 PM
The D'Backs got robbed. Like the trade for the Reds and Indians.

dougdirt
12-11-2012, 09:21 PM
The D'Backs got robbed. Like the trade for the Reds and Indians.

DBacks LOVE Gregorius. Have been trying to acquire him for the last year+.

Brutus
12-11-2012, 09:21 PM
a peek at Choo.

gesundheit

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 09:22 PM
Jason Kipnis ‏@TheJK_Kid

Cincy... You're not gonna find two better teammates then the ones you just traded for. #choo #donald

Brutus
12-11-2012, 09:23 PM
DBacks LOVE Gregorius. Have been trying to acquire him for the last year+.

True but they seem to value him far more than everyone else.

RED VAN HOT
12-11-2012, 09:23 PM
Career OPS of .344 against LHP. Never below .338. Has no real power against LHP but still gets on base at a very acceptable clip.

I'll also take in to consideration that compensation pick that comes along with him. So in reality getting another high ceiling player in return even when you lose Choo. As far a the D goes, I expect him or Bruce to be "serviceable"...

I show career OBP of .338, and 2012 OBP of .318 with an OPS of .605. Since this is the last full season and he is 30, it carries some weight. The one year rental does not really bother me. I concede that he is an offensive upgrade, but I am uncomfortable with a "serviceable" replacement in CF. Hopefully, this is an indication that the Reds see Hamilton as close. If the Reds also get Sipp, it is a much better trade. A second LHP out of the pen is needed, especially if Chapman makes the transition successfully.

reds44
12-11-2012, 09:23 PM
Reds traded Didi and moved Hamilton to CF, tells you how highly they think of Cozart.

dougdirt
12-11-2012, 09:23 PM
True but they seem to value him far more than everyone else.

Said it before and I will say it again.... they really don't. Plenty of teams and people out there really like that kid.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 09:23 PM
Looks like the ARI-CLE part of the deal took an hour or so more to finalize:


8:12pm: The Diamondbacks announced that they have acquired shortstop Didi Gregorius, left-handed pitcher Tony Sipp, and first baseman Lars Anderson from the Indians in exchange for right-handed pitchers Trevor Bauer, Matt Albers and Bryan Shaw.

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/reds-acquire-shin-soo-choo.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter#bdLqpAL8BsTgwMxA.99

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 09:23 PM
Cleveland Indians ‏@tribeinsider

...ARI acq. INF Didi Gregorius (from CIN) & LHP Tony Sipp (from CLE), while CIN acq. OF Shin-Soo Choo, INF Jason Donald and cash (from CLE)

Money to extend? Nah. Wishful thinking. I'll just be happy with what we've got. Exactly what we needed. Choo.

corkedbat
12-11-2012, 09:23 PM
Cleveland Indians ‏@tribeinsider

...ARI acq. INF Didi Gregorius (from CIN) & LHP Tony Sipp (from CLE), while CIN acq. OF Shin-Soo Choo, INF Jason Donald and Cash (from CLE)

Always good to see one of Johnny's boys headed our way. Love the deal! Always been a big fan of Choo. I'd say the Reds FO feel some level of comfort with S-SC in center or the deal wouldn't have gone down.

dougdirt
12-11-2012, 09:24 PM
Reds traded Didi and moved Hamilton to CF, tells you how highly they think of Cozart.

Might be a mistake. 27 years old. Career .290 MLB OBP.

cincrazy
12-11-2012, 09:24 PM
With each passing day, the holes on this team continue to disappear.

M2
12-11-2012, 09:25 PM
Earl Weaver would know what to do.

Well, he might be torn between using Gary Roenicke or Merv Rettenmund to do it.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 09:25 PM
Always good to see one of Johnny's boys headed our way. Love the deal! Always been a big fan of Choo. I'd say the Reds FO feel some level of comfort with S-SC in center or the deal wouldn't have gone down.

Has anyone thought of the possibility that Walt's not done dealing? I mean, could he just be looking to acquire good players at any cost and then worrying about how they fit together later? Just wanted to put that out there.

mattfeet
12-11-2012, 09:25 PM
John Fay ‏@johnfayman

#Reds call Choo a center fielder in their announcement of the deal.

Tom Servo
12-11-2012, 09:25 PM
The Reds got an impact bat for Gregorius and a guy who was practically waiver fodder given his 2012 performance. I like it.

cinreds21
12-11-2012, 09:25 PM
If I had to choose between Cozart and Didi, I'd probably choose the latter. Younger, and better defensively.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 09:25 PM
Might be a mistake. 27 years old. Career .290 MLB OBP.

I don't mind it that much if he plays solid D and bats 8th.

Doc. Scott
12-11-2012, 09:26 PM
The stakes rise on 2013. Hopefully this new version of the BRM doesn't have their 1971 right after 2012's 1970.

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 09:26 PM
Jason Kipnis ‏@TheJK_Kid

Cincy... You're not gonna find two better teammates then the ones you just traded for. #choo #donald

Nice. Always good to hear.

Brutus
12-11-2012, 09:27 PM
Said it before and I will say it again.... they really don't. Plenty of teams and people out there really like that kid.

I don't read any of the reporters' comments from scouts as being all that glowing. Certainly none of them think it's justifiable trading Bauer for him.

Blitz Dorsey
12-11-2012, 09:27 PM
I love getting Choo in a contract year too. You think he won't be motivated to put up the best numbers possible?

This just keeps getting better. Donald is a hell of a "throw-in" too. (Not that Jocketty views him as a throw-in, hence the quotes.)

cincrazy
12-11-2012, 09:27 PM
Cozart had over 30 doubles. Decent home run power. Great defense. Maybe he'll never get on base at a great clip, but I would say he's an above average shortstop. May Didi be better than him? It's possible. But is he likely to be so much better that we rue the day we made this trade? I highly doubt that. LOVE this trade so much. I don't even care about the downgrade in center defensively. We see the Cards sacrifice D for offense all the time, and more often than not, it's worked for them.

Blitz Dorsey
12-11-2012, 09:28 PM
Stubbs is so overrated defensively that it's not even funny.

No, actually it is kind of amusing.

cinreds21
12-11-2012, 09:28 PM
JJ Cooper ‏@jjcoop36
Didi Gregorius was going to be No. 5 on Reds' BA Top 10 prospects list. VG defensively, great arm. Good athlete. ? are how good bat will be

Hamilton, Cingrani, Corcino, Stephenson?

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 09:30 PM
Might be a mistake. 27 years old. Career .290 MLB OBP.

Career consisting of one season. Give him a chance. Besides, he can still pick it at short and that's the main part of his job description. That OBP won't look quite so troublesome with it out of the 1 & 2 hole.

Doc. Scott
12-11-2012, 09:30 PM
Well, he might be torn between using Gary Roenicke or Merv Rettenmund to do it.

Depends on the data on the cards, right?

Blitz Dorsey
12-11-2012, 09:31 PM
Hamilton, Cingrani, Corcino, Stephenson?

Yessir, I would think so.

How about that? Didn't even have to give up one of our top-4 prospects in this deal. Complete win by Walter Jocketty.

nate
12-11-2012, 09:31 PM
Nice move!

dougdirt
12-11-2012, 09:32 PM
Career consisting of one season. Give him a chance. Besides, he can still pick it at short and that's the main part of his job description. That OBP won't look quite so troublesome with it out of the 1 & 2 hole.

At his age, there isn't likely room for big improvements. You pretty much are what you are at age 27.

Always Red
12-11-2012, 09:32 PM
No wonder Bowden loves this deal- it's exactly one that he would have made, with trading for a bat and plugging him into a position he has seldom played.

I really love the idea of Choo leading off; not sure at all he can play CF. That leaves the Reds OF with: Choo, Bruce, Ludwick, Heisey and Paul. Does Heisey get traded away for a guy who is better defensively in CF? Paul played corner spots last year, if I recall.

This team played some great defensive baseball last year, both pitching and with the glove. I think this years team scores more but maybe gives up more, as well.

lollipopcurve
12-11-2012, 09:32 PM
Jason Kipnis ‏@TheJK_Kid

Cincy... You're not gonna find two better teammates then the ones you just traded for. #choo #donald

Walt doesn't miss on this front.

Choo could do major damage in GAB. He hits high fly balls to left much the way Votto does.

May be wishful thinking, but something is telling me Walt has a hunch he has a chance to keep Choo in Cincy, Boras or no Boras.

Reds Fanatic
12-11-2012, 09:32 PM
Ken Rosenthal‏@Ken_Rosenthal

#Reds badly wanted another LH bat. Choo fills that need and career .381 OBP makes him well-suited to lead off. Center field? We shall see.

Griffey012
12-11-2012, 09:32 PM
Is it possible Choo will actually be better or equal in CF than he was in RF? He has some solid speed, able to steal 20+ bases multiple times. Aside from the dead centerfield line drive, balls in CF are easier to read than RF. Without a lot of ground to cover at GABP, seems to me like he should be fine in CF, but I haven't watched him play RF much.

Blitz Dorsey
12-11-2012, 09:33 PM
At his age, there isn't likely room for big improvements. You pretty much are what you are at age 27.

Nah, not when you were a rookie at 26. He'll improve. Not saying he'll vastly improve, but he'll improve. I'd go "big stakes" on you and do a sig bet if you're game. Cozart will improve on his 2012 numbers in 2013.

The guy just seems like one of those players that gets better every time he repeats a level. I like that he was a star three-sport athlete in high school too. shows me he's a natural athlete. Makes sense why he's shown steady improvement throughout his professional career.

Always Red
12-11-2012, 09:33 PM
The stakes rise on 2013. Hopefully this new version of the BRM doesn't have their 1971 right after 2012's 1970.

2011 was the 1971 to the 2010.

At least that's how I rationalize it.

Buckeye33
12-11-2012, 09:34 PM
If I had to choose between Cozart and Didi, I'd probably choose the latter. Younger, and better defensively.

I think nearly everyone on this board would rather have kept DiDi over Cozart but that would not have produced Choo being on a serious World Series caliber team.

dougdirt
12-11-2012, 09:34 PM
Nah, not when you were a rookie at 26. He'll improve. Not saying he'll vastly improve, but he'll improve. I'd go "big stakes" on you and do a sig bet if you're game. Cozart will improve on his 2012 numbers in 2013.

The guy just seems like one of those players that gets better every time he repeats a level. I like that he was a star three-sport athlete in high school too. shows me he's a natural athlete. Makes sense why he's shown steady improvement throughout his professional career.

There is a reason that he was a 26 year old rookie.

RedEye
12-11-2012, 09:34 PM
My expectations for 2013 just went through the roof. It's a weird feeling indeed.

Blitz Dorsey
12-11-2012, 09:35 PM
There is a reason that he was a 26 year old rookie.

There are late-bloomers, Doug. Chris Sabo won Rookie of the Year at 26.

corkedbat
12-11-2012, 09:35 PM
I show career OBP of .338, and 2012 OBP of .318 with an OPS of .605. Since this is the last full season and he is 30, it carries some weight. The one year rental does not really bother me. I concede that he is an offensive upgrade, but I am uncomfortable with a "serviceable" replacement in CF. Hopefully, this is an indication that the Reds see Hamilton as close. If the Reds also get Sipp, it is a much better trade. A second LHP out of the pen is needed, especially if Chapman makes the transition successfully.

I believe Cingrani will start the season as the 2nd lefty out of the pen. Chapman may start the season in the pen too to limit his earlt-season innings.

marcshoe
12-11-2012, 09:35 PM
Was it also Broussard for Brantley?

Broussard for Branyan. Then Cleveland traded Broussard to Seattle for Choo.


Reds win deal.:thumbup:

_Sir_Charles_
12-11-2012, 09:35 PM
At his age, there isn't likely room for big improvements. You pretty much are what you are at age 27.

True. But holding steady at where he was last season...still fine with me low in the order and playing VERY steady defense.

Redhook
12-11-2012, 09:35 PM
Choo-choo!! I'm flabbergasted. Go Walt. I couldn't be happier with this deal, and I got to use the word flabbergasted. Twice.

dougdirt
12-11-2012, 09:36 PM
There are late-bloomers, Doug. Chris Sabo won Rookie of the Year at 26.

Yeah, and he also found steroids*

*allegedly

For every Chris Sabo who was a late bloomer, how many guys weren't? A metric ton.

Brutus
12-11-2012, 09:36 PM
There is a reason that he was a 26 year old rookie.

Not trying to pick on you Doug, but it wasn't more than a year or two ago you were singing Cozart's praises.

dougdirt
12-11-2012, 09:37 PM
I believe Cingrani will start the season as the 2nd lefty out of the pen. Chapman may start the season in the pen too to limit his earlt-season innings.

Where is there room in the pen for Cingrani without an injury? I don't see any spots even close to being open.

M2
12-11-2012, 09:37 PM
Hamilton, Cingrani, Corcino, Stephenson?

Probably Hamilton, Stephenson, Cingrani and Corcino if we're going in order.

Benihana
12-11-2012, 09:37 PM
Reds are in such a great situation now. By July they'll have several options and a lot more visibility:

If Hamilton looks like he is the real deal, the Reds can shop Ryan Ludwick while negotiating with Shin-Soo Choo. Or they can let Choo walk (after making a qualifying offer of course to pick up the draft picks).

If Hamilton looks like he will not be ready for primetime in 2014 or after, the Reds can attempt to engage Choo in long-term talks. If he walks, collect the picks. If he signs, you could shop Hamilton or Ludwick.

Hell maybe Cozart sucks, Hamilton looks great and the Reds can re-sign Choo and move Hamilton back to SS- who knows?

Either way, great job Walt and great job Reds. Can't wait for ST!

Tom Servo
12-11-2012, 09:37 PM
I mean, are we really complaining about the one weak bat in our lineup that still provides offensive pop and great defense?

Blitz Dorsey
12-11-2012, 09:38 PM
Yeah, and he also found steroids*

*allegedly

For every Chris Sabo who was a late bloomer, how many guys weren't? A metric ton.

Your premise is that a guy who was 26 during his rookie year won't improve in future seasons. That's an absolutely false premise. I won't be able to prove it for a while, but I'll prove it. I'll remind you of this when you turn out to be wrong about Zack Cozart. To pretend as if he won't improve on his rookie numbers is extremely naive of you Doug. I would expect more. He will improve. What are your stakes?