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View Full Version : Reds Acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious



cjtenn28
12-11-2012, 10:01 PM
The deal sending Shin-Soo Choo to the Reds has been completed, according to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com (via Twitter). The Reds will also receive Jason Donald in the trade, Heyman confirms (via Twitter).

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#X9u6c74hBw6qvZhP.99

texasdave
12-11-2012, 10:02 PM
No pitchers were harmed in the making of this trade. Sweet.

KYRedLeg
12-11-2012, 10:05 PM
Need to hurry up and get all of the ink dry before the Indians realize what they've done.

19braves77
12-11-2012, 10:06 PM
Indians have to be going for something big after this....

Red in Atl
12-11-2012, 10:07 PM
Awesome! No more Stubbs :beerme:

I'll miss Didi, but he wasn't a proven guy and had nowhere to play. Great trade Walt!

DocRed
12-11-2012, 10:11 PM
Awesome! No more Stubbs :beerme:

I'll miss Didi, but he wasn't a proven guy and had no where to play. Great trade Walt!

I'll drink to that!!

alett12
12-11-2012, 10:24 PM
I love this deal, Choo could provide for a possible compensation pick after next season if he has a huge year and we give him a compensation offer which would make sense since he is a Boras client.

drowg14
12-11-2012, 10:26 PM
So we now get to yell CHOOOOOOOOOO as well as BRUUUUUUUUUUUUCE?

I'll call that a win. :thumbup:

americanoutlaw1
12-11-2012, 10:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DUfx22O4kw

WDE
12-11-2012, 10:52 PM
Yes yes yes yes yes. SO happy about this.

leeech86
12-11-2012, 10:52 PM
I kinda really wanna buy a Choo jersey ASAP!

alett12
12-11-2012, 10:53 PM
Cozart is now safe

improbus
12-11-2012, 10:56 PM
The beauty of a move like this is that it makes the rest of the lineup fall into place. Is anyone else surprised that Arizona gave up Trevor Bauer?

WDE
12-11-2012, 10:57 PM
Now we will be able to hand over CF to Billy Hamilton in 2014, but also have a great CF in 2013. Man I love this.

Redlegs Homer
12-11-2012, 11:00 PM
Choo is definitely a step up over Stubbs. Choo is projected to have a higher OPS by about .100 next year. That will be huge as leadoff. Good deal, Walt.

improbus
12-11-2012, 11:00 PM
So...does that make Cozart the next RedsZone whipping boy?

Red Raindog
12-11-2012, 11:02 PM
Report on MLBTradeRumors says the Indians sent 3.5 Mil to Reds to help pay Choo!

tedies
12-11-2012, 11:08 PM
Report on MLBTradeRumors says the Indians sent 3.5 Mil to Reds to help pay Choo!

Liking this deal more and more. Will be nice not to have to watch Drew Stubbs bat 4 times a day for 6 months :D

webbbj
12-11-2012, 11:09 PM
So...does that make Cozart the next RedsZone whipping boy?

Ill take cozart in the 7/8 hole all day

nheath22
12-11-2012, 11:21 PM
Is anyone else surprised that Arizona gave up Trevor Bauer?

Slightly surprising they gave up Bauer, but from Az point of view, they have lots of young top level talent in their organization and Bauer just seemed to be the odd man out. Not all young pitchers were going to play for D-backs and they used their assets to fill other positions. Plus, Arizona just signed B. Mccarthy to a deal today who can fill out their rotation as a more proven starter. I think it works out for all teams involved and that Didi could be the long term answer for the D-backs at SS.

alett12
12-11-2012, 11:28 PM
Choo is definitely a step up over Stubbs. Choo is projected to have a higher OPS by about .100 next year. That will be huge as leadoff. Good deal, Walt.

How many less K's is Choo predicted to have?

Captain13
12-11-2012, 11:29 PM
Ill take cozart in the 7/8 hole all day

Except he plays shortstop and must bat 2nd.

19braves77
12-11-2012, 11:42 PM
Slightly surprising they gave up Bauer, but from Az point of view, they have lots of young top level talent in their organization and Bauer just seemed to be the odd man out. Not all young pitchers were going to play for D-backs and they used their assets to fill other positions. Plus, Arizona just signed B. Mccarthy to a deal today who can fill out their rotation as a more proven starter. I think it works out for all teams involved and that Didi could be the long term answer for the D-backs at SS.

And Bauer wasn't liked by his peers or then FO.

Eric the Red
12-11-2012, 11:47 PM
Absolutely love this trade for the Reds. Shin Soo Choo is exactly what this offense needs. Great move by Walt. Does anyone know much about Jason Donald? Guessing he will be our backup shortstop. How is he defensively? I know Donald won't hit much but solid defense is necessary and he'll get his share of playing time (we all know how much Dusty played Valdez).

Ironman92
12-11-2012, 11:48 PM
Choo could never actually play a game for the Reds and I'll still be happy with this trade.

So happy.

Red Raindog
12-11-2012, 11:50 PM
Choo could never actually play a game for the Reds and I'll still be happy with this trade.

So happy.

ouch --- :thumbup:

Maker_84
12-11-2012, 11:50 PM
Like the trade alot, is it opening day yet??? Choo is gonna rake in GABP

RadfordVA
12-11-2012, 11:53 PM
Crazy to think the shift in OBP at top this will have. If choo produces .373 OBP again that would be 30 points higher than what the top team in NL got out of leadoff spot last year. Reds dead last at .254. Go from last to first quickly. Love the move

DocRed
12-11-2012, 11:55 PM
If you don't like this trade...then you a re a communist. Hail Sputnik!!

Red Raindog
12-11-2012, 11:58 PM
Crazy to think the shift in OBP at top this will have. If choo produces .373 OBP again that would be 30 points higher than what the top team in NL got out of leadoff spot last year. Reds dead last at .254. Go from last to first quickly. Love the move

yes --- I've been drinking since I heard the rumors so my math should be suspect - but I'm thinking this could give Votto something like 50 more runners on base to drive in this year!

nheath22
12-12-2012, 12:00 AM
Absolutely love this trade for the Reds. Shin Soo Choo is exactly what this offense needs. Great move by Walt. Does anyone know much about Jason Donald? Guessing he will be our backup shortstop. How is he defensively? I know Donald won't hit much but solid defense is necessary and he'll get his share of playing time (we all know how much Dusty played Valdez).

Donald isn't an offense force by any means but he was a solid back up and was putting up decent numbers in 2010-11 (solid .260 hitter), but last year was definitely a slump. He is much more of a utility player rather than just a back up SS. Can play 2nd, SS, and Third decently well. I would say he is a younger version of Cairo who we control for several more years. I think its a nice add to our bench.

fielder's choice
12-12-2012, 12:09 AM
Not sure I like this trade. Choo isn't nearly as fast as Stubbs. Afraid he may clog up the bases. :confused:

goreds2
12-12-2012, 12:15 AM
Just got home from a company function and saw this on MLB Network. Like the trade without a doubt. Best wishes to Stubbs. It will be interesting with him coming into town for the Ohio Cup series.

HometownHero
12-12-2012, 12:16 AM
You know this is a good trade since the Cardinals fans are bending over backwards to find ways to knock it.

Eric the Red
12-12-2012, 12:18 AM
Donald isn't an offense force by any means but he was a solid back up and was putting up decent numbers in 2010-11 (solid .260 hitter), but last year was definitely a slump. He is much more of a utility player rather than just a back up SS. Can play 2nd, SS, and Third decently well. I would say he is a younger version of Cairo who we control for several more years. I think its a nice add to our bench.

Donald seems like a good fit then. Being versatile is certainly an asset. If he can hit .250 to .260 in about 150-200 at bats with solid defense he'll prove to be a very nice role player.

Stray
12-12-2012, 12:19 AM
This lets BP go back to 2nd where he's most comfortable. With the Ludwick signing our lineup can go ahead and get etched in stone. I think we all know how much Dusty loves that.

How long till pitchers and catchers report lol?

Stray
12-12-2012, 12:22 AM
Worst case scenario he shows in ST that he's not a great defensive CFer. That could put Bruce in CF on opening day.

Either way, we have a small park so I'm not really worried about it. We also have a nice backup in Heisey who can cover a lot of ground. We'll figure it out.

nmculbreth
12-12-2012, 12:25 AM
I'd like this trade a whole lot more if the Reds would have found a way to acquire Bauer for Gregorious and then acquire Choo without giving up Bauer. That beings said it's hard to not like this deal for the Reds, they gave up a couple of superfluous parts and acquired a legitimate lead off hitter for the first time in many years.

Stray
12-12-2012, 12:28 AM
lefty-righty-lefty-righty-lefty-righty sounds nice as well.

bigredmechanism
12-12-2012, 12:31 AM
I've wanted Choo for 2 or 3 years now. Finally!

When was the last time the Reds had a good leadoff hitter?

RedTruck
12-12-2012, 12:32 AM
I've wanted Choo for 2 or 3 years now. Finally!

When was the last time the Reds had a good leadoff hitter?

Not since Drew Stubbs:laugh:

Mutaman
12-12-2012, 12:33 AM
A real honest to goodness lefthanded hitter. Far far out. Good luck Drew. Now lets go win a world series.

TeamSelig
12-12-2012, 01:21 AM
Best part of this trade?

Now we have BRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCE ... and CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOO

cscott81
12-12-2012, 02:09 AM
So what is the record for strikeouts by a hitting duo. Now that the Indians have paired Stubbs with Reynolds?

HometownHero
12-12-2012, 02:51 AM
So what is the record for strikeouts by a hitting duo. Now that the Indians have paired Stubbs with Reynolds?

Don't know for sure but its got to be 383 in 2010 with Reynolds who lead the majors with 211 and Adam LaRoche was 4th with 172 on the D-Backs. A team that had 3 other guys with at least 145 K's that year for 1529 team total to set the MLB record.

jhiller21
12-12-2012, 03:38 AM
I hate to lose Stubbs' speed, but speed doesn't mean much if you can't get on base. Choo is going to work out very nicely until Hamilton is ready. Love this deal.

Rantly
12-12-2012, 10:49 AM
Great Deal. Noticed Choo struck out 150 times last year, not exactly a contact hitter but loads better than Stubbs. Hopefully Drew will unleash some of his talent in Cleveland, but not against the Reds

Pony Boy
12-12-2012, 11:26 AM
Cliff Corcoran at SI is much more bullish on Choo's prospects of being a decent defensive CF than others that I have read. He writes:


Choo has played just 10 games in center field in the major leagues, the last coming in 2009, but he has been a superlative defensive right fielder with good speed (Choo has stolen 76 bags at a 78 percent success rate over the last four seasons, topping 20 steals in his three healthy campaigns) and one of the best throwing arms in the major leagues, and he’s a massive upgrade in the lineup over Stubbs, whose performance at the plate cratered in 2012...

As for fielding, despite earning rave reviews for his defense in the minor leagues, Stubbs’ defense regressed significantly in the last two seasons, making it entirely possible that Choo could break even in the field, making him close to a pure four-win upgrade for the Reds.

http://mlb.si.com/2012/12/12/d-backs-meet-needs-but-reds-indians-benefit-most-from-9-player-swap/

I hope he is right.

RedsFaninAfrica
12-12-2012, 11:50 PM
It's hard to conceive that any real Reds fan could think this a bad deal. I'm elated. Choo gets on base a lot (2012 OPS .815). Imagine what that'll do to Phillips, Votto, Ludwick and Bruce's offensive production. I get nauseous remembering how many times Votto came to the plate in 2012 with 2 outs and nobody on. That'll change in 2013 with Choo leading off and Phillips batting second where he belongs. I'll gladly give up a bit of defense with the gain in offensive production.

gedred69
12-13-2012, 12:26 AM
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the CF swap. Just one thought nags me though. I remember back to the latter 80's when the Reds had 2 can't miss SS in the pipe, both MLB ready, no more than a season apart. Ultimately, one who went on to a few decent seasons, (all-star once I think) was traded, and the one they kept just entered the HOF this summer. I hope Cozart over Gregorious is half as wise as Larkin over Stillwell.

Mutaman
12-13-2012, 12:53 AM
"Stubbs’ defense regressed significantly in the last two seasons"

I must have missed those games.

Rantly
12-13-2012, 09:58 AM
"Stubbs’ defense regressed significantly in the last two seasons"

I must have missed those games.

I was thinking same thing!

Captain13
12-13-2012, 10:26 AM
The thing that scares me is Ludwick and Bruce have both played more CF than Choo. Does this mean we will see too much Heisey in CF and a Choo-Ludwick platoon in LF? Dusty has done dumber things.

alwaysawarrior
12-13-2012, 11:19 AM
The thing that scares me is Ludwick and Bruce have both played more CF than Choo. Does this mean we will see too much Heisey in CF and a Choo-Ludwick platoon in LF? Dusty has done dumber things.

They didn't trade for Choo to platoon him with Ludwick. If they don't think he can hack it in CF they will slide Bruce over. I think the defense aspect is being overplayed. Will Choo be worse in CF than Stubbs? Undoubtedly. However not so drastically that it is going to offset the offensive production. Giving Votto someone to drive in will be huge. With Choo and Phillips as opposed to Cozart and Stubbs the difference is going to be huge.

Stray
12-13-2012, 11:49 AM
The thing that scares me is Ludwick and Bruce have both played more CF than Choo. Does this mean we will see too much Heisey in CF and a Choo-Ludwick platoon in LF? Dusty has done dumber things.

The money we paid Ludwick makes him the starter, and Ludwick didn't turn down more money elsewhere to come back here and be in a platoon.

I think we'll see Bruce in CF on opening day.

Pony Boy
12-13-2012, 03:02 PM
The Reds are following simple logic:

-Choo was considered to be a good defensive corner outfielder for most of his career. His decline in recent years probably isn't due to advancing age (he is only 30). His decline was therefore probably due to falling into bad habits with his technique (and bad luck). Poor technique is correctable, so he can probably become a good defensive corner outfielder again.

-Choo demonstrates good speed on the base paths. The main difference between playing a corner OF spot and CF is that you need to cover more ground as a CF. Given his speed on the base paths, Choo probably has enough speed to have decent range as a CF.

malcontent
12-13-2012, 03:30 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the CF swap. Just one thought nags me though. I remember back to the latter 80's when the Reds had 2 can't miss SS in the pipe, both MLB ready, no more than a season apart. Ultimately, one who went on to a few decent seasons, (all-star once I think) was traded, and the one they kept just entered the HOF this summer. I hope Cozart over Gregorious is half as wise as Larkin over Stillwell.
I think Gregorius will surprise some of the experts who are calling him a "good-field, no-hit" guy.

But with the way Cozart played last year I'm fine with the choice to move Didi....assuming, of course, that Cozart couldn't have replaced him in the trade.

SweetLou1990
12-13-2012, 05:31 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the CF swap. Just one thought nags me though. I remember back to the latter 80's when the Reds had 2 can't miss SS in the pipe, both MLB ready, no more than a season apart. Ultimately, one who went on to a few decent seasons, (all-star once I think) was traded, and the one they kept just entered the HOF this summer. I hope Cozart over Gregorious is half as wise as Larkin over Stillwell.

I hear ya, but in 2012, Cozart was def major league ready and Didi was not. Also Cozart was a candidate for a gold glove, so as of now, it looks like the right decision.

Hondo
12-16-2012, 06:39 PM
Donald seems like a good fit then. Being versatile is certainly an asset. If he can hit .250 to .260 in about 150-200 at bats with solid defense he'll prove to be a very nice role player.

If Donald gets 150-200 AB's we've got problems...

LeDoux
12-16-2012, 07:21 PM
Won't the Reds likely receive a sandwich pick if Choo signs elsewhere for 2014? (assuming the Reds offer 1 YR/ ~12 million).

Old NDN
12-19-2012, 12:13 PM
Well, after the euphoria of trading Stubbs has worn away a little, Choo in CF has me a little worried. While Choo seems to be fast enough do a decent job, Bruce appears to be slower than Choo and IMO, not an option. Why weaken two spots to cover one? Heisey and Paul aren't exactly top-of-line defensive replacements for CF. I don't think Walt is finished tweaking the roster.

OGB
12-20-2012, 01:21 AM
Well, after the euphoria of trading Stubbs has worn away a little, Choo in CF has me a little worried. While Choo seems to be fast enough do a decent job, Bruce appears to be slower than Choo and IMO, not an option. Why weaken two spots to cover one? Heisey and Paul aren't exactly top-of-line defensive replacements for CF. I don't think Walt is finished tweaking the roster.

I was actually quite impressed with Heisey's play in center last year.

Alpha Zero
12-22-2012, 12:17 PM
If Donald gets 150-200 AB's we've got problems...

Most utility players around the league get 100-200 ABs over the course of a season. I don't see this as a problem at all, especially if we get the 2010-2011 version of Donald. I just don't get all of the Donald hate. He seems like a capable backup to me. Obviously he shouldn't be an everyday player, but he's a good bench piece.

Alpha Zero
12-22-2012, 12:19 PM
I was actually quite impressed with Heisey's play in center last year.

Agree. I think Heisey is a good defender. He misplays a ball now and then, but in general, he has good instincts and pretty decent speed. He isn't quite the defender that Stubbs is, but not many guys are.

smixsell
12-24-2012, 03:18 PM
Yeah Baby!! This trade is WIN WIN WIN IMO.

PS If Choo can't handle CF, then I'm pretty confident that at least Jay can do a serviceable job there.

Pete4prez
12-25-2012, 02:17 AM
This is a good trade, letting Stubbs recieve 500 AB per year is like beating a dead horse. I wish him nothing but the best of luck in the future.